IRC logs for #openttd on OFTC at 2012-11-18
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00:04:23 <Nat_aS> what's new in OTTD land?
00:08:10 <Nat_aS> lets just say since 2012 started
00:08:17 <Nat_aS> have there been any new features
00:08:34 <Zuu> You could look at the changelog for 1.2 :-)
00:09:02 <Zuu> I guess the largest news is probably that we have Game Scripts in 1.2 and trunk.
00:09:45 <Zuu> Eg. get "beginner tutorial, or "neighbours are important" from bananas and have fun :-)
00:10:09 <Nat_aS> I forget, does cargodist have a channel?
00:10:11 <Zuu> What is major is highly subjective
00:12:12 <Zuu> There is also the zBase 32bpp base set that you can get from bananas if that is what makes you go wow :-)
00:12:37 <Nat_aS> as in high res graphics that are just traced renders?
00:13:02 <Zuu> High res graphics from blender or so.
00:17:19 <Zuu> Anyhow, for trunk there is "NoCarGoal" and "Silicon Valley" which are two game scripts that enables quick and interesting goal games.
00:18:05 <Zuu> And as the GS thingy is just a framework anyone with some good ideas can create further scripts.
00:18:29 <Nat_aS> I just tried Locomotion again
00:18:36 <Zuu> yeah, some progamming knowledge is good too... :-)
00:18:38 <Nat_aS> I wanted to give it a chance
00:18:53 <Nat_aS> the trains have the worst pathfinding ever
00:19:02 <Nat_aS> and you can't build complex signal types
00:19:16 <Zuu> Oh and as for trains, have you tried the NUTS set?
00:19:42 <Nat_aS> I know it was under construction last time
00:19:45 <Zuu> It is playable and quite interesting.
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09:20:45 * planetmaker ponders. The engine got a livery refit. The animation stage of the station changed. The railtype was converted....
09:24:14 <planetmaker> so only 3 differences, Eddi|zuHause :-)
09:24:32 <Terkhen> the picture files have different names :P
09:24:38 <Eddi|zuHause> the bridge in the background changed
09:24:45 <Eddi|zuHause> the sky got brighter
09:24:54 <Eddi|zuHause> the s-bahn train is missing
09:25:06 <Eddi|zuHause> the wagon yard in the background changed
09:25:14 <Eddi|zuHause> the baggage car is missing
09:25:30 <Eddi|zuHause> the train changed direction
09:26:04 <Eddi|zuHause> and there's a green arrow in the second picture :)
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09:28:58 <Eddi|zuHause> (picture shows Berlin, Warschauer Straße, in case abyone can't read the sign :) )
09:31:12 <Alberth> the first picture is 10 times more beautiful
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10:28:25 <Eddi|zuHause> "Add text filter to load savegame/scenario/heightmap GUI. (similar to NewGRF GUI; wrt. "save" see "hard tasks")" <- since we now have multiple edit boxes (i heard), the "save" part shouldn't be hard anymore
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10:33:59 * Alberth is confused how load and save are connected
10:35:38 <Eddi|zuHause> the save window already had an edit box for the savegame name
10:35:59 <Eddi|zuHause> the load window didn't have an edit box before
10:36:22 <Eddi|zuHause> thus you could easily add an edit box to the load window, but not the save window
10:37:55 <Alberth> to me, the problem under 'hard tasks' is about saving the gui information, not about a 2nd editbox
10:38:07 <Alberth> which I can imagine as being hard
10:39:38 <Alberth> yeah, I was reading the wrong part, sorry
10:43:29 <Alberth> I don't see how that task is useful tbh, perhaps we should remove it.
11:17:56 <Zuu> It could be useful if you want to save over some file which you only remember the name partially and the save list is long. Though, I agree on that the load filter is probably more useful.
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12:07:40 <Eddi|zuHause> latin alphabet only! :p
12:11:53 <__ln__> that demand is not ivstified
12:12:42 <Rubidium> if yov vant to obey that rvle yov mvst be named Eddi|zvHavse
12:15:13 <Eddi|zuHause> extended latin alphabet only! ;)
12:16:05 <Eddi|zuHause> (you would have needed to use capital letters, anyway :))
12:17:30 <Ammler> is the encoding a channel setting?
12:18:28 <Eddi|zuHause> the channel does not know anything about encoding, it's purely client side
12:19:17 <Eddi|zuHause> the channel/server only processes byte streams
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14:48:52 <Superuser> Translation question for everyone
14:48:53 <Superuser> {BIG_FONT}{WHITE}{PRESIDENT_NAME} of {COMPANY} achieves '{STRING}' status!
14:49:15 <Superuser> Can I use {G "he" "she" ""} (in my language ofc) before {PRESIDENT_NAME}
14:49:38 <Superuser> it doesn't exist in the original token so I'm not sure if it's allowed
14:49:47 <Mikk36> Is it just me having skipping sound effects in game?
14:49:47 <Superuser> this is a hell of a lot more versatile than gettext but still
14:49:53 <Mikk36> Using the default OpenSFX pack
14:50:02 <Mikk36> Most common is missing the income sound
14:50:07 <Superuser> what Operating System are you using Mikk36?
14:50:39 <Superuser> hmm it should be working. I'm no MIDI expert though, so Ican't help you there :)
14:51:09 <Mikk36> sometimes i hear them, but most of the time they skip
14:53:37 <Superuser> So I'll just leave that message here till someone comes along and does the old !log
14:55:14 <__ln__> Superuser: can't you just try if it works or not?
14:55:52 <Superuser> No, at least not without recompiling
14:55:59 <Superuser> as I understand it the translation file needs to be committed back to the repository before I can see it
14:56:21 <Superuser> only the webmaster has access to that, I believe. And anyway, not a fan of compiling at all -.-
15:01:08 <__ln__> what's the worst that can happen if you change it in the translator, wait a few days for a nightly build, and if it doesn't work as expected, revert it?
15:02:27 <Superuser> Huh, not a bad idea
15:02:51 <Superuser> though it would be nice if I could get an answer right now, as this could affect the entire translation
15:05:30 <Superuser> oh boy, found an upstream error in the translation
15:05:48 <Superuser> a map legend should always have the text in singular form
15:06:18 <Superuser> OpenTTD's map legend is... inconsistent. Some parts are in singular, others in plural
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15:15:27 <Alberth> Superuser: if your language has genders, it should work
15:16:05 <Superuser> But are you 100% sure? The original has no gender parameter or whatever the {G} thing is called
15:17:05 <Alberth> I can try, what should I change?
15:19:50 <Superuser> if that's what you mean
15:20:47 <Alberth> openttd/play/src/lang/greek.txt:754: warning: STR_SMALLMAP_CAPTION: Param idx #0 'PRESIDENT_NAME' doesn't match with template command 'STRING' <-- I am afraid it doesn't work, I hacked
15:20:48 <Alberth> STR_SMALLMAP_CAPTION :{WHITE}{G "he" "she" ""}{PRESIDENT_NAME}
15:21:16 <Alberth> but it does sound like a good feature you may want to have
15:22:04 <Superuser> the sentence doesn't make sense without the gender in front of the prez's name
15:22:24 <Superuser> so I guess I'll roll it back, I'll keep it bookmarked though in case you decide to change it :)
15:22:46 <Alberth> I'll add the feature to the todo list at the wiki
15:23:11 <Superuser> AFAIK it should work just by changing the token in the code
15:23:19 <Superuser> it will, however, break every single translation
15:24:38 <Superuser> Anyway, OpenTTD's support of translations is really impressive. I've been in the OSS translation field (I should really go professional one of these days...) for years, never have I come across such a thorough system
15:25:07 <Alberth> It won't break anything afaik, the {G ..} thingie is optional
15:26:11 <Alberth> ie it reads a parameter, but does 'eat' it, so the parameter is still available for use by the 'real' use.
15:28:32 <Alberth> Superuser: yeah, I don't understand why gettext doesn't have it
15:29:24 <Alberth> (I looked at gettext some time ago and it was missing some things)
15:29:25 <Superuser> Two reasons: firstly, it is terribly outdated and has been around since the 1980s, and secondly, it is made by Americans :)
15:30:11 <Yexo> <Alberth> openttd/play/src/lang/greek.txt:754: warning: STR_SMALLMAP_CAPTION: Param idx #0 'PRESIDENT_NAME' doesn't match with template command 'STRING' <-- I am afraid it doesn't work, I hacked <- that test is wrong
15:30:29 <Superuser> Qt's .ts and the XML-based XLIFF format are just the same actually
15:30:33 <Yexo> Alberth: the error you get there is because you substituted {STRING} with {PRESIDENT_NAME}, which is not valid
15:30:42 <Yexo> {"PRESIDENT_NAME", EmitSingleChar, SCC_PRESIDENT_NAME, 1, C_NONE | C_GENDER}, <- from strgen_tables.h
15:30:50 <Yexo> it's listed there as having a gender, so it should work
15:31:03 <Yexo> that doesn't mean it will work though ;)
15:31:29 <Alberth> Superuser: so please test the feature, revert the revert :)
15:33:27 <Superuser> the last one was generated in 2011...
15:33:28 <Alberth> Superuser: I was looking into making a more generic translation service, and being able to leverage gettext would be awesome
15:33:29 <Yexo> looking at strings.cpp I'm pretty sure it won't actually work, but I'll do some testing
15:33:51 <Alberth> Superuser: strgen does not change very often
15:34:32 <Yexo> it's been updated this year though
15:34:50 <Yexo> if not, could you remove the url / mention it's outdated on that page
15:34:57 <Yexo> if it is, please update the CF to build strgen
15:36:24 <Superuser> BTW, who actually ensures consistency amongst the strings used in the game? I've found a couple of upstream errors.
15:36:43 <Superuser> Though only someone like me would notice them, as they are very minor
15:36:48 <Yexo> for translations the individual translators are responsible for that
15:37:01 <Yexo> for UK English all devs try to maintain consistency
15:37:06 <Superuser> No, I mean errors in the English source file
15:37:38 <Yexo> in any case: please do report errors
15:37:57 <Superuser> yes, literally that small, haha
15:38:41 <Superuser> yes, I fixed it :-)
15:39:21 <Yexo> I meant to say: I've fixed it locally in my repo, which means I'll commit it when I have some more
15:39:31 <Yexo> You can't change the English strings
15:39:44 <Superuser> oh I thought you meant the translated token
15:40:04 <Superuser> sorry about calling them tokens, I'm just used to gettext
15:42:50 <Superuser> just wondering, road vehicles can only crash with trains, right? Never with each other or with aeroplanes falling from the sky?
15:44:27 <Superuser> it would be awesome though if the latter could actually happen. OpenTTD would definitely earn the NetHack distinction of 'The Dev Team thinks of everything' on TVTropes
15:45:27 <Alberth> it seems to always select the first gender
15:47:51 <Yexo> I was trying to fix it but now I realize it's not easy
15:48:21 <Yexo> there is no mapping from "male/female" (which is defined for faces which we could use) to the genders used by translations
15:48:56 <Yexo> all current translations seems to use "male female ...others..." in that order, so mapping to 0/1 works
15:49:00 <Yexo> but that feels like a very big hack
15:50:19 <Superuser> Can towns have genders?
15:51:11 <Yexo> but I don't think any of the default translations has genders for towns
15:51:44 <Yexo> And a NewGRF townname wouldn't be able to provide them since town names are not translatable
15:51:49 <Superuser> Though I know that the German language has genders and there is a German-language town-naming scheme in OpenTTD
15:52:13 <Yexo> Superuser: sure, but you can use german town names combined with the greek language
15:52:26 <Yexo> in which case gender mappings are not trivial or even possible
15:52:37 <Alberth> town names are also often constructed from random parts
15:53:16 <Superuser> so it'll just have to sound awkard :)
15:58:21 <Yexo> but as said before: it's a hack that assumes 0 means male and 1 female
16:00:44 <Yexo> that's the one I tested it on
16:02:38 <Yexo> wrt genders for town names: how would that work conceptually?
16:02:53 <Yexo> can those genders be defined in a language-agnostic way?
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16:06:15 <Eddi|zuHause> i don't really know where german town names' genders would be relevant. except in special cases as "the bronx"
16:06:39 <Superuser> In {G}, some previous translators did not separate gender casese with quotation marks. Should these have quotes added around each gender case?
16:06:54 <Superuser> or word in general, it's a very flexible system.
16:07:03 <Yexo> the quotes are optional and only required if you want to use } or spaces
16:07:35 <Yexo> or an empty string, which without quotes would not be different from nothing
16:07:54 <Superuser> I'll add them anyway as they are more expressive
16:10:53 <Superuser> {BIG_FONT}{BLACK}New {STRING} being planted near {TOWN}!
16:11:05 <Superuser> NEVER seen this message before, and I'm pretty sure you can't fund forests...
16:11:17 <michi_cc> I don't think defining genders language-agnostic is really feasible. How do you define something if one language has masculine/feminin, another human/non-human, animate/inanimate or male (human)/anything else?
16:12:21 <Eddi|zuHause> Superuser: there is an option to fund primary industries (forests, mines, farms, plantations)
16:12:24 <Superuser> at least it works for Indo-European languages, probably
16:12:51 <Superuser> wow I had no idea, how do you do that?
16:14:04 <Yexo> it's used for forest, fruit plantation, rubber plantation and cotton candy forest by default
16:14:17 <Yexo> Superuser: there is an option in the advanced settings window, I think under "economy->industries"
16:14:38 <DorpsGek> Commit by rubidium :: r24754 trunk/src/saveload/saveload.cpp (2012-11-18 16:14:31 UTC)
16:14:39 <DorpsGek> -Fix [FS#5367]: crash on corrupted savegame
16:14:46 <TrueBrain> Yexo: talk to Rubidium about those things
16:15:29 <Superuser> Not that I actually fund industries, it's not terribly difficult to have won the game by then and in MP others do it for you :) (but I never win at MP games, ever)
16:15:48 <TrueBrain> Yexo: those download pages sync with finger. Rubidium always keeps finger in sync with reality ;)
16:16:09 <TrueBrain> (I am not in touch with OpenTTD development as such, so I wouldn't know what is valid and what is not ;))
16:16:25 <Yexo> finger.openttd.org lists the same version as on the download page, so that is in sync indeed
16:16:33 <Eddi|zuHause> i suppose the build of strgen was just not triggered automatically
16:17:24 <Superuser> {G 0:2 Ο Η Το} <--- what on earth is 0:2 meant to mean?
16:17:31 <Rubidium> strgen there is meant for those that don't have a compiler and want to locally work on string changes/improvements
16:17:33 <TrueBrain> and I wouldn't know if it should or not; I have others telling me that :D
16:17:36 <Yexo> Superuser: second substring of first string
16:17:43 <Rubidium> so it should still be functioning
16:18:02 <Superuser> I'm thinking of Python's slicing feature, but I know little about scripting anyway...
16:18:33 <Yexo> Superuser: the string that has that {G 0:2} should also have a {STRINGn} in there, with n being a number
16:18:51 <TrueBrain> Ammler / planetmaker / whoever: almost every day hg.openttdcoop gives a 504: Gateway timeout
16:19:03 <Rubidium> r24668 seems to be the last rev that should exist
16:19:04 <Yexo> the {STRINGn} is a substring with n arguments, the 2 means it refers to the second (maybe third) argument for that substring
16:19:05 <Superuser> it doesn't and it doesn't make sense. It's used for when an industry announced imminent closure
16:19:18 <Superuser> in this particular case
16:19:29 <Superuser> so I guess I'll just have to remove the 0:2
16:19:49 <Yexo> wait a minute, which exact string is that?
16:20:05 <Eddi|zuHause> Superuser: why remove something that you have no clue what it does?
16:20:19 <Superuser> because I just (I think) figured out what it does
16:20:36 <Superuser> thanks to the ever helpful Yexo
16:20:45 <Superuser> Yexo, the master of regex
16:20:49 <Eddi|zuHause> {INDUSTRY} probably has substrings as well (town name, industry name)
16:21:23 <Yexo> the 0:2 is there because it wants the gender of the industry
16:21:59 <Yexo> the {STRING2} is in english.txt, all translations just have {STRING}
16:22:11 <Ammler> TrueBrain: we are aware of that, testing different hg servers for the big 32bpp ez repos
16:22:13 <Superuser> would that not be required for every use of {G} then?
16:22:37 <TrueBrain> Ammler: every day for the past week?
16:22:39 <Ammler> kinda thought, I found something good with rhodecode :-)
16:22:47 <Superuser> so 0:1 for first two genders
16:22:54 <Yexo> Superuser: by default G refers to the next parameter
16:22:54 <Superuser> 0 for the first, et al
16:23:14 <Eddi|zuHause> Superuser: there are some defaults which usually don't need to be overridden
16:23:18 <Yexo> {STRING3} {INDUSTRY} {PRESIDENT_NAME} {G x}
16:23:54 <Ammler> TrueBrain: how frequently does your cf pull?
16:24:05 <TrueBrain> it has 200+ errors in 2 weeks
16:24:07 <Superuser> oh I see, it just ignores {BIG_FONT}, {BLACK} and itself, then
16:24:08 <TrueBrain> so I would guess every hour
16:24:08 <Yexo> {G 0} would refer to {STRING3}, {G 0:1} refers to the second argument of the {STRING3}, {G 1} refers to {INDUSTRY}, {G 2} refers to {PRESIDENT_NAME}, {G no_number} is not valid since there is no value after it
16:24:28 <Yexo> yes, BIG_FONT, BLACK (and other colors) etc. which don't accept any parameters are ignored
16:24:43 <Superuser> ... or I should just give up trying to understand this stuff, as it flies way over my head.
16:24:53 <Superuser> Thanks for the copious explanation though.
16:25:05 <Ammler> TrueBrain: we still run the hgweb via hgweb.openttdcoop.org
16:26:24 <Ammler> hmm, but maybe we should rollback hg.o.o to hgweb and search something else :-(
16:28:59 <Ammler> TrueBrain: what backend do you use for hgweb?
16:29:13 <Superuser> err, guys, EMU doesn't stand for European Monetary Union, it stands for Economic and Monetary Union.
16:29:38 <Superuser> Please correct this in STR_NEWS_EURO_INTRODUCTION
16:30:11 <Superuser> The cynic in me wonders just how long it will last
16:30:27 <MNIM> no, EMU stands for Electrical Multiple Unit!
16:31:26 <TrueBrain> Ammler: hgweb.cgi, I am guessing
16:34:45 <Rubidium> Superuser: Superuser where does that news message speak about the EMU?
16:35:08 <Superuser> when you currency changes to the Euro
16:35:15 <Rubidium> it just speaks about a European monetary union, which the Euro defacto is.
16:35:25 <Rubidium> the EMU is from well before the actual introduction of the Euro
16:35:36 <Superuser> Nevertheless, the actual name is the Economic and Monetary Union
16:35:48 <Superuser> the American media calls it that to avoid confusion
16:39:49 <Rubidium> Superuser: if we call it Economic and Monetary Union, then the UK must be part of it as well
16:40:06 <Rubidium> and the news message would imply that the UK would have the Euro as well
16:40:10 <Superuser> UK has an opt-out of both the ERM and ERM-II and the EMU...
16:40:27 <Superuser> afaik it doesn't come up with gbp
16:41:11 <Rubidium> after all you only have the Euro after entering the third EMU stage
16:42:45 <Rubidium> ah well, otherwise you still have Denmark, Latvia and Lithuania in the first or second EMU stage
16:44:03 <Rubidium> but by the looks of it, the UK is in the EMU with a special clause where they are not forced to go to EMU stage 3
16:44:50 <Rubidium> as a result I would say "Economic and Monetary Union: The euro is introduced" is worse than
16:45:02 <Rubidium> "European monetary union: The euro is introduced"
16:45:33 <Superuser> I think you'd need to have a very poor appreciation of context to be confused by that.
16:46:46 <Superuser> BTW, you were thinking of the EEC, not the EMU when you said it had been around since before the EMU (which introduced the European Central Bank and so on)
16:47:21 <Rubidium> ah well... in a sense all currencies in OpenTTD are in the second stage of EMU
16:49:07 <Rubidium> EMU started in 1990, Euro was introduced in 2002
16:51:58 <NGC3982> No gold-pressed latinum, though. :/.
16:56:19 <Superuser> oh well, I translated to Economic and Monetary Union anyway, not only because it's more correct, but also because 'European Monetary Union' doesn't exist as a term in Greece
16:58:54 <Rubidium> how would you translate "greek political union: greek politic parties unite on XYZ"?
17:00:20 <Rubidium> the union in the news message is the "act of uniting or joing two or more things into one", not "a confederation of independent nations for a common purpose"
17:01:27 <Rubidium> in the latter case you would be correct that European monetary union is incorrect, in the former case it's not as they really united at that point in a monetary union, i.e. the Euro
17:02:20 <Superuser> It doesn't matter. It's talking about a real-life historical event. The Economic and Monetary Union of the EU exists specifically for the Eurozone
17:02:26 <Yexo> if it's not a name shouldn't it be spelled as "Economic and monetary union" instead of "Economic and Monetary Union"?
17:02:54 <Superuser> so the definition is irrelevant, we're talking about a real-life organisation that brands itself that way. Hence, Economic and Monetary Union!
17:03:08 <Eddi|zuHause> how about calling it "European Economic and Monetary Union"?
17:03:37 <Superuser> That is incorrect, that's the problem
17:04:11 *** Superuser is now known as Superuser|AFK
17:04:19 <Eddi|zuHause> Superuser: "european" is not a part of the name, it's a qualification, there might as well be an american one or an african one
17:04:59 <Rubidium> why is it so hard to understand the subtle nuance between the unite and united meaning of union?
17:05:04 <Superuser|AFK> Yeah, I was saying that since we mention the Euro it's obvious which one the game is referring to. AFK for real now, lol
17:05:28 <Eddi|zuHause> Superuser|AFK: and we were saying you're alone with that opinion
17:06:09 <Rubidium> so, could just as well replace monetary with currency
17:06:24 <Rubidium> wouldn't change the meaning of the sentence, except for Superuser
17:06:39 <Eddi|zuHause> could be also a way :)
17:09:39 <Rubidium> we use "Economic and monetary union: if all goes well the euro will be introduced as sole currency in your country in X years"
17:10:03 <Rubidium> and then show the message in 1990 (or later depending on when the country joined the EMU)
17:11:50 <Rubidium> interestingly enough, in OpenTTD, all currencies fullfil the rules for the the third stage of EMU
17:12:47 <APTX> Rubidium: aren't they all related to the pound?
17:12:55 <Rubidium> i.e. fixed exchange rates to the Euro
17:13:22 <Rubidium> APTX: that still leaves a fixed exchange rate to the Euro
17:13:54 <APTX> that's funny as gbp doesn't fulfill the criteria :P
17:15:27 <V453000> Hi, vehicle_is_reversed [0 | 1] No Value is 1 if the vehicle has reversed an odd number of times <--- does this apply also when the vehicle is reversed by the FLIP in the depot by ctrl+click?
17:18:46 <Eddi|zuHause> V453000: no, that has a separate variable
17:19:56 <V453000> hm dont you by chance remember which variable that is?
17:21:42 <Eddi|zuHause> hm. i don't remember the last time that was discussed
17:22:20 * Rubidium hopes when I was absent ;)
17:26:30 <Eddi|zuHause> i think you can read that from var48
17:26:43 <V453000> I am not sure what do you mean by that, but if I want to make flipped trains have like an info sprite on them - like an arrow -, does using extra_callback_info1 help, or is there any other variable I am missing?
17:28:27 <Eddi|zuHause> return HasBit(Train::From(v)->flags, VRF_REVERSE_DIRECTION) ? 0xFE : 0xFD;
17:28:46 <Eddi|zuHause> so 0xFD for normal, 0xFE for reversed
17:32:39 <Eddi|zuHause> but you can access arbitrary vars with "var[num, shift, mask]"
17:32:40 *** Superuser|AFK is now known as Superuser
17:33:20 <Superuser> Eddi|zuHause, Rubidium: oh well, the whole debate was about something completely pedantic, no idea why you got so worked up about it
17:33:39 <Superuser> I still think it's more legitimate, but if you genuinely think it's confusing, the choice is yours. I have no commit access.
17:34:00 <Eddi|zuHause> Superuser: because it was about someting completely pedantic, and imho made the message less clear
17:34:40 <Superuser> Not really, but I don't think there's much point in arguing this anymore. Sudo end bickering.
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17:36:32 <Eddi|zuHause> V453000: actually, i think this is the wrong one as well
17:41:17 <Eddi|zuHause> VRF_REVERSE_DIRECTION is the ctrl+click flip and VRF_TOGGLE_REVERSE is the automatic reverse-in-stations/end-of-track/button-in-train-window
17:41:27 <V453000> I am still trying to find it on the tt-wiki
17:41:29 <Eddi|zuHause> naming could be improved
17:42:11 <Eddi|zuHause> C8 B Sprite type; FD for trains forward, FE or FF when reversed
17:44:57 <Eddi|zuHause> this flag doesn't seem to be set for the rear part of a multiheaded vehicle, is this intended?
17:45:24 <V453000> hm well multihead cant flip
17:45:36 <Eddi|zuHause> no, the second part is automatically flipped
17:45:51 <Eddi|zuHause> not sure where or how
17:45:56 <V453000> yeah but you cant use the flip feature on it
17:46:14 <Eddi|zuHause> but the newgrf might still want to know whether it's drawing the flipped version
17:55:57 <V453000> does that make any sense?
17:57:30 <Eddi|zuHause> shift and mask are the same as for NFO variables, i.e. 0 and 0xFF for a byte variable. no idea if nml has that as default
17:57:45 <Eddi|zuHause> it's kind of a hidden feature :)
18:03:23 <V453000> does that mean I can ignore the shift and mask?
18:06:09 <Yexo> NML doesn't do byte variables, only 32-bit sized variables
18:06:18 <Yexo> so use 0 and 0xFF respectively for byte-sized vars
18:07:02 <V453000> uhm what does byte variable mean?
18:07:19 <Yexo> variable that is 8 bits wide
18:07:51 <Eddi|zuHause> the "B" in the NFO table
18:07:52 <Yexo> so use var[0xC8, 0, 0xFF]
18:09:27 <Eddi|zuHause> it doesn't really matter for openttd, as it always returns dword sized variables, but ttdpatch may have funny effects :)
18:10:16 <V453000> looks like it is compiling, lets see the outcome :)
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18:20:35 <Ammler> TrueBrain: I switched back default hg backend to hgweb I will take the timeout errors in the log a bit more serious in the future ;-)
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18:45:32 <DorpsGek> Commit by translators :: r24755 /trunk/src/lang (4 files) (2012-11-18 18:45:23 UTC)
18:45:33 <DorpsGek> -Update from WebTranslator v3.0:
18:45:34 <DorpsGek> greek - 105 changes by Evropi
18:45:35 <DorpsGek> hungarian - 2 changes by IPG
18:45:36 <DorpsGek> lithuanian - 11 changes by Stabilitronas
18:45:37 <DorpsGek> swedish - 1 changes by Joel_A
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19:32:19 <Nat_aS> does cargodist have it's own channel?
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19:50:56 <andythenorth> Yexo: can you replicate the rather large bug with CHIPS non-track tiles? o_O
19:52:00 <__ln__> ferrari is communicating in italian to f. alonso
19:57:25 <NGC3982> Ayaya! Speedapa mistar allanza!
20:07:48 <Eddi|zuHause> __ln__: why wouldn't they?
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20:56:25 <__ln__> Eddi|zuHause: dunno, because radio traffic has been otherwise english only
20:57:05 <__ln__> i wonder if the texasian audience was impressed by how well lewis hamilton spoke english
21:00:27 <Eddi|zuHause> you mean american? :)
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23:00:06 <__ln__> does anyone know what's "short circuit" (noun) in latin?
23:01:06 <Eddi|zuHause> i don't think they had words for electricity :)
23:02:12 <Eddi|zuHause> but i never learned latin
23:03:40 <glx> but "curtus circuitus" should be equivalent
23:05:05 <glx> (based on french court-circuit)
23:06:25 <Eddi|zuHause> somehow that reminds me of "schwanzus longus"
23:07:15 <Eddi|zuHause> [which is from the life of brian]
23:08:41 * __ln__ is thinking about a name for a piece of software he's thinking of writing
23:13:36 <Eddi|zuHause> wait, you already program _before_ you have a name?
23:17:03 <__ln__> you could call it a proof-of-concept of an empty application window. choosing a name is of course a blocker for creating an svn repo.
23:19:06 <__ln__> the BeOS api for GUI applications seems quite nice actually.
23:24:21 <Eddi|zuHause> i wonder if i still have my collection of programs named "x", "xx", "xxx" ...
23:24:47 <Eddi|zuHause> 8 letters were so limiting back then :)
23:28:47 <__ln__> coming up with names is a hard task in general
continue to next day ⏵
