IRC logs for #openttd on OFTC at 2012-10-21
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00:30:55 <Nat_aS> is that 100% station coverage>
00:31:35 <Nat_aS> every house is served by a station
00:31:49 <Simonn> ehm a tram picks them up
00:31:52 <Nat_aS> the catchment area covers the entire city
00:31:58 <Simonn> and delivers them to the nearest train station
00:32:01 <Nat_aS> yeah, does the tram have 100% coverage?
00:32:41 <Simonn> but I still need to cover like 40% of my map
00:32:51 <Simonn> I mean I only covered like 30-40%
00:32:54 <Simonn> and it's already a mess
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00:36:04 <scott__> hi all. I'm having a bitch of a time trying to get the 32bit zoom thing working. Is there a pre-configured version somewhere I can download?
00:37:19 <Nat_aS> that's the same picture
00:37:30 <Simonn> yeah I was showing off for scott__ :(
00:37:45 <Simonn> can't he enjoy my awesome simonn transport international too
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00:56:35 <scott__> ok, a different question. If I had a rail network with a train stopping at every town from one side of the map to the other, is that worse then an express train just going between two towns really far away?
00:56:53 <Simonn> what do you mean worse
00:57:00 <Simonn> income is calculated by distance
00:57:03 <scott__> I'm pretty new to the game
00:57:15 <scott__> so will some people just stay on the train till they get far away to their stop?
00:57:29 <Simonn> depends on your route settings
00:57:42 <scott__> just hopping from one to the other
00:57:57 <Simonn> nothing special selected?
00:57:59 <scott__> yep, no full load or anything
00:58:11 <Simonn> if you have a train going from A to B to C
00:58:24 <Simonn> then the train will fully load at A, fully unload at B, load at B, fully unload C, ...
00:58:33 <Simonn> so no passengers will go from A to C I think
00:58:43 <scott__> oh that's not ideal.. dumb people :P
00:58:54 <Simonn> yeah openttd people are pretty dumb
00:59:10 <scott__> so you get more money just going from A to C without stopping?
00:59:32 <Simonn> you see the upper stations, going from south west to north east?
00:59:39 <Simonn> the underground ones in the city centres
00:59:52 <scott__> this is going to take a little while… png on a slow connection
00:59:58 <Simonn> they are instructed to load at every station, without unloading
01:00:04 <Simonn> and to unload at a certain station
01:00:16 <Simonn> if my trains are full, they just skip the next station until my drop off station is reached
01:01:02 <scott__> that does not seem like reality :P
01:01:12 <Simonn> its openttd reality :p
01:01:17 <Simonn> at the drop off station they get on a plane
01:01:25 <scott__> and that makes you more money then say oil?
01:01:36 <Simonn> best money maker is coal
01:01:41 <Simonn> but I play the game in my own way
01:01:47 <Simonn> I love playing like that in the screenshot
01:02:04 <Simonn> Materials are better money making in the early game
01:05:18 <scott__> well, I'll play again next month some time. Time to get back to real work. Thanks Simonn :)
01:07:26 <Markk> kqr: Jag har alltid blandat ihop Gotye samt Goethe.?
01:07:33 <Markk> Can you do a order which says something like: "If loaded by at least 60%, skip to next order"?
01:08:18 <Markk> Also, can you do a order which says: "If already fully loaded, continue to %s"?
01:08:49 <Markk> (I have 4 stations in a row, the two stations in the middle is load-only, so that would be useful)
01:09:03 <Simonn> I am wondering the same thing
01:10:42 <Markk> I think that I've seen that before, but havn't found a setting or option for it anywhere.
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03:28:38 <Markk> Haha, there is a North Korean lovomotive in 2cc.
03:47:10 <TorA> Anyone know where I can find a copy of NARS that isn't broken?
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07:40:31 <Rubidium> Ammler: given it's outdated by over a year, it's not such a bad request
07:40:43 <Ammler> (I would rename the page to OpenGFX)
07:40:45 <Rubidium> complete removal might be a bit too much
07:41:08 <Rubidium> but definitely the removal of the outdated copy
07:42:39 <Ammler> yep, rename to OpenGFX and remove Readme
07:43:17 <Ammler> and maybe add other additional "unversioned" infos
07:44:34 <Ammler> he, germans really translated the readme :-)
07:45:25 <Ammler> I always wanted translated readmes in the source :-P
07:46:15 <Rubidium> you shouldn't rename the page since it's linked to from the readme
07:47:10 <Ammler> well, rename means, there will stay a redirect
07:48:02 <Rubidium> but IMO the page should be clear it used to be the readme, so people click on the link to the actual readme from the source repository
07:48:20 <Rubidium> but feel free to make another OpenGFX page
07:49:23 <Ammler> so copy new version or remove "readme"?
07:50:12 <Rubidium> copy new version and make sure it gets updated upon the next release, or remove the content of the readme from the page and link to the file in the source repository
07:52:00 <Ammler> planetmaker: renumber the index was quite a bad move
07:53:16 <Ammler> ah well, not that worse :-P
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07:57:36 <Ammler> ok, set my vote against ;-)
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08:36:42 <frosch123> dihedral: are you still the only one with a clue about the admin port?
08:48:37 * andythenorth just plugged a mouse in
08:48:40 <andythenorth> ottd is better with a mouse
08:49:19 <andythenorth> haven't used a mouse for years :P
08:51:06 <andythenorth> it has a scroll wheel, and I can move the map without a modifier key and all sorts of things
08:51:53 <Alberth> Ammler: mice and cats are not compatible afaik
08:53:11 <Ammler> my laptop has both in, mouse and cat :-P
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08:53:34 <Ammler> well, the cat is mainly around it
08:54:13 <andythenorth> Eddi|zuHause uses cat a lot
08:54:45 <andythenorth> can I put FIRS python conversion on amazon mechanical turk?
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09:16:03 <DorpsGek> Commit by frosch :: r24620 trunk/src/network/network_admin.cpp (2012-10-21 09:15:57 UTC)
09:16:04 <DorpsGek> -Fix (r24619): Keep admin port API compatibility.
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10:16:41 <V453000> andythenorth: is it possible that FIRS eats a lot of cpu later in the game?
10:17:54 <frosch123> industry cpu usage depends mostly on the number of industry tiles on the map
10:18:00 <frosch123> which stays quite constant during a game
10:18:27 <frosch123> unless ottd constantly tries to build more industries, which fails :p
10:18:33 <frosch123> no idea how often ottd tries
10:18:48 <V453000> strange, we have just 850 trains and the game feels like we had 2000
10:19:52 <frosch123> well, that doesn't says anything about how much cpu firs used in the ealier stages of the game :p
10:20:29 <V453000> I didnt mean comparatively
10:20:39 <V453000> my bad sorry :) didnt express it right
10:21:34 <frosch123> i should revive the newgrf profiler
10:21:34 <Alberth> how hard it tries depends on how many it is behind w.r.t. planning. If industries do not close, it would be quite relaxed, as keeping up is trivial until you get a crowded map
10:22:01 <Alberth> the planning increases slowly, ie a few industries per decade
10:22:10 <frosch123> ah right, first stuff does not close
10:22:34 <V453000> it can but by default it doesnt indeed
10:22:53 <V453000> (we are using the default now)
10:27:21 <DDR> I recall one map I flooded with something like 5000 boats. It was multiplayer, and it turned out I had the weakest computer/worst connection.
10:27:31 <DDR> I accidentally won myself out of the game. :P
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11:48:56 <andythenorth> someone has patched for diagonal roads
11:51:59 <andythenorth> needs some anti-aliasing on the white lines though
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14:34:07 <NGC3982> I know that using systems like that work for smaller stations with <7 tile trains
14:34:24 <NGC3982> But should i need to rethink this with this size of train and station?
14:37:46 <V453000> how about to use multiple smaller Xes
14:38:50 <NGC3982> But i only have one exit, and one entrance
14:38:57 <NGC3982> I fail to see how that would make it more efficient.
14:39:24 <V453000> you would of course connect all of the Xes into one exit/entrance in the end
14:39:38 <V453000> point is, this huge ass X is very slow. Making 3 smaller ones is obviously more than 3 times faster
14:43:19 <V453000> report the results :p
14:44:12 <NGC3982> Thing is, the number of stations will make trains do an extra turn.
14:45:40 <V453000> what do you mean by that
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14:47:25 <V453000> well that is obviously not the way how to do it, hang on
14:48:25 <V453000> one line splits into 4, and each of the 4 has its own X
14:50:51 <V453000> generally the very first fork matters the most in almost every station
14:51:09 <V453000> you need to provide valid choices at all times for the station to be able to handle higher traffic
14:51:31 <V453000> so, forking into multiple X sub-stations is a good way to go
14:53:45 <NGC3982> I don't fancy that, though.
14:53:51 <NGC3982> Looks way too chaotic
14:54:02 <NGC3982> My OCD's are acting up
14:54:16 <V453000> it is described and with small screenshots there
14:54:26 <V453000> the very intro image is a typical station you are trying to build
14:54:37 <NGC3982> Actually, the picture there shows something more interesting.
14:55:03 <NGC3982> The basis seems to be to actually divide entry and exit traffic
14:55:14 <NGC3982> Wich is the only thing that separates that from my current setup.
15:01:56 <V453000> feel free to ask about anything but the article I linked you to should have a lot of answers
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16:00:44 <NGC3982> andythenorth: What is the maximum amount of oil an oilwell can produce in FIRS 0.7.5?
16:03:10 <andythenorth> put the industry production cheat on and have a look
16:03:16 <andythenorth> then reload your savegame
16:04:42 <NGC3982> 1,792,000 liters, it seems.
16:10:52 <__ln__> "Are you sure you want to quit and return to Windows?" .... is that question perhaps a bit 'dated'?
16:17:55 <Terkhen> it's more dated when you play on linux... it says "return to Unix"
16:22:25 <__ln__> it does, and gnu's not unix.
16:22:57 <__ln__> and on OS X, which actually is Unix, it doesn't say Unix.
16:23:48 <Zuu> __ln__: you mean that the question does suggest that people don't multi-task?
16:24:51 <Zuu> Eg. that OpenTTD run as a modal process to the OS.
16:24:59 <__ln__> Zuu: yes; "return to DOS?" made a lot of sense back then, but 'returning' to Windows or any other windowed, multitasking OS is not really 'returning'.
16:25:36 <Terkhen> "Are you sure you want to quit?" should be enough
16:26:05 <__ln__> so how about creating a newgrf which replaces the quit dialog with that simpler message and leaves out the OS completely.
16:26:36 <NGC3982> Can that be achieved with a GRF?
16:26:44 <Terkhen> why shoud such a thing be done with a NewGRF?
16:27:19 <__ln__> because nothing's done in code if it can be done with a newgrf, i've understood.
16:27:54 <__ln__> ok, fair enough, i'm trolling about the grf thing, but not about changing the message.
16:27:59 <frosch123> yeah, and playing is mostly done by ais
16:28:06 <andythenorth> NGC3982: that's just about the worse use case for a newgrf I've heard :)
16:28:23 <Yexo> if you play ttdpatch it's likely possible with a newgrf
16:29:22 <Zuu> Unless its part of the retro TTD feeling to have the "quit to OS" dialog, I've got nothing against removing one port diffeerence.
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16:33:44 <NGC3982> At the same time, don't let everything fall to practicality.
16:34:06 <NGC3982> It's can be quite nostalgical to maintain stuff like that.
16:39:41 <Alberth> __ln__: we're so happy that openttd is not gnu
16:43:24 <NGC3982> V453000: Im sticking to my big cross model.
16:43:41 <NGC3982> V453000: The trains wait a fair bit on the station anyhow, and it looks much better.
16:43:48 <frosch123> "collapse"/"expand" or "fold"/"unfold"?
16:44:15 <Chris_Booth> "collapse"/"expand"
16:44:15 <andythenorth> for progressive disclosure?
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16:53:51 <NGC3982> I often use double-connected engines in OpenTTD
16:54:36 <NGC3982> Is that realistic? Of course, i often notice double-connected ("multade") complete trains
16:54:50 <NGC3982> But never Engine+Engine+line of wagons
16:55:20 <NGC3982> Ive only seen it in pax traffic
16:55:23 <Markk> It's normal to use 2 or 3 engines in a row in the front and then a lot of wagons.
16:56:23 <Markk> I've seen engine+PAX-wagons+engine as well.
16:56:54 <Markk> SJ use that configuration in the train between Stockholm and Uppsala in Sweden.
16:57:46 <Markk> But it's not because they need the extra power, it's just so they don't have to move the engine from side to side when heading back.
16:57:49 <NGC3982> Arent those double-deckers?
16:58:08 <DanMacK> North american freights are almost always like that
16:58:12 <Markk> This is a normal train.
16:58:43 <Markk> NGC3982: Det är vanligt lok + vagnar och sedan ett lok i slutändan igen, vanligtvis Rc6+B6+Rc6 igen.
16:58:57 <Markk> NGC3982: X40 brukar köra blandat ibland också.
16:59:01 <Markk> NGC3982: Men det är en motorvagn. :)
16:59:05 <NGC3982> But yeah, now that you say it.
16:59:21 <Markk> Sorry guys that I took that in Swedish, but is was quite a lot easier that way.
16:59:58 <NGC3982> You will be banished to the lakes of blood!
17:00:42 <NGC3982> Markk: Although, making my trains more realistic would really be to use an Rc6 in each end then, i guess.
17:00:58 <NGC3982> It will actually look alot better when they turn at stations too.
17:01:23 <Markk> __ln__: "det" = "that" and "en" = "one".
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17:01:54 <__ln__> jag vet, men varför inte "den"?
17:02:03 <Markk> NGC3982: Yer, but that depends.
17:02:24 <NGC3982> __ln__: He is describing the model, not an individual engine.
17:02:47 <NGC3982> __ln__: Thus: det ("that model") r en motorvagn (is a motor wagon).
17:02:57 <Markk> __ln__: It's about grammar, I can't use "den" in either of the sentences.
17:03:47 <__ln__> NGC3982: ok, that makes sense.
17:04:09 <Eddi|zuHause> has anyone said "english only" yet?
17:04:13 <Markk> "den" and "det" means the same thing, but it is the grammar who decides when and where I should use it.
17:04:43 <NGC3982> Markk: I would not actually say that it means the same thing.
17:04:56 <NGC3982> Markk: But that might be me being used to the grammar in a non-international sence.
17:05:34 <NGC3982> As taught in school: "Swedish grammar. It's like german grammar, but Swedish!"
17:05:39 <__ln__> Eddi|zuHause: english is basically swedish with some german and french mixed into it.
17:06:02 <Eddi|zuHause> is that like "der/die/das" [gender] or "der/des/dem/den" [casus]
17:06:48 <Markk> Yes, but a little less complex.
17:07:20 <Markk> That video describes Swedish quite well.
17:08:39 * andythenorth searches for US trains with 6 or 8 units on the head end :P
17:09:27 <Pinkbeast> They don't believe in banking locos for some reason, right?
17:09:27 <NGC3982> Please note that this guy is a rather famous comedian..
17:10:12 <Zuu> Markk: Between Stockholm and Norrköping I've seen RC6 + wagons + wagon with cabin. Eg. like the south end of X2 but with the old slow trains.
17:10:35 <Zuu> But I guess they are short in those and use an engine instead between Stockholm and Uppsala.
17:10:49 <Markk> They should use X40 for that.
17:10:59 <__ln__> Eddi|zuHause: swedish has "en/ett" (basically gender, but those aren't called masculine or feminine), and then "den/det" is the definite article, and also "t" is added to some adjectives for the "ett" gender.
17:11:03 <Markk> And now maybe a X53 (Regina).
17:26:07 <Eddi|zuHause> hm... Stuttgart is going green...
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17:36:42 <frosch123> has that any influence on the railstation? :p
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17:45:33 <DorpsGek> Commit by translators :: r24621 /trunk/src/lang (4 files) (2012-10-21 17:45:23 UTC)
17:45:34 <DorpsGek> -Update from WebTranslator v3.0:
17:45:35 <DorpsGek> afrikaans - 47 changes by Oomjcv
17:45:36 <DorpsGek> catalan - 425 changes by Bassals, arnau
17:45:37 <DorpsGek> korean - 6 changes by telk5093
17:45:38 <DorpsGek> spanish - 5 changes by Terkhen
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18:34:21 <Alberth> hi, although 'friends' is a bit early
18:35:13 <xand> hi, any ideas why my "check online content" window would have no content downloaded?
18:35:40 <xand> oh nm, I was being impatient!
18:36:03 <Yexo> good to hear it works :)
18:37:46 <Eddi|zuHause> Simonn: if the amount of replies is any indicator for your amount of friends, i'd start to worry :)
18:38:41 <Eddi|zuHause> nobody here by that name, sorry
18:39:05 <Yexo> well, he did get 2 replies (no a third indirect one)
18:40:04 <Simonn> bullies like you make me SICK
18:41:19 <Yexo> Simonn: don't take everything so serious, and certainly don't go on about it after it should have been apparent is was a joke
18:41:50 <Simonn> yeah join the 99% ganging up on me
18:42:10 <andythenorth> someone kick him please
18:42:28 <Simonn> I came here to show of my stuff
18:44:27 <planetmaker> the please do so. And stop the whining
18:45:15 <planetmaker> It was a clear and friendly joke by Eddi|zuHause and no-one had any bad thoughts about that or you
18:46:23 <Simonn> you are right i'm sorry Eddi|zuHause
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18:47:10 <andythenorth> sheep on snow are near-invisible
18:49:52 <planetmaker> hi not-so-stranger ;-)
18:50:26 <andythenorth> who's stranger than Rubidium ?
18:51:12 <planetmaker> andythenorth, face the mirror ;-)
18:51:35 <planetmaker> (or maybe I should)
18:53:00 <andythenorth> I could paint the sheep red
18:53:13 <andythenorth> 23 industries converted :P
18:53:35 <FLHerne> andythenorth: What are you converting industries to?
18:53:56 <andythenorth> it will optimise performance
18:54:52 <Yexo> FLHerne: he's increasing the filesize of firs
18:55:00 <FLHerne> andythenorth: Sounds impractical :P
18:55:25 <FLHerne> Is it yet more abstraction? :P
18:55:42 <Yexo> just changing the abstraction a bit
18:55:46 <Supercheese> Making it lots harder to compile it
18:55:54 <Yexo> moving part of it to python templates with chameleon
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18:56:56 <andythenorth> making it much easier to add things like....snow, fences, animated tiles, and date sensitive graphics
18:57:04 <andythenorth> and also making it practical to do economies
18:57:28 <andythenorth> and also reducing the amount I complain about c pre-processor
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21:08:41 <Eddi|zuHause> i'm fairly sure christ never built anything remotely similar :p
21:10:42 <__ln__> how much bread and fish would he produce per month, and what cargo does he accept?
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21:15:00 <V453000> maybe some batteries, too
21:15:23 <Simonn> pff but everything is so fully build
21:15:26 <Simonn> it's not funny anymore
21:16:54 <V453000> might want to include trains more within the city itself, more smaller stations delivering to the big ones
21:18:38 <Zuu> Simonn: Your screenshot does actually have trains and not just lots of rails as some "massive" screenshot on the forums tend to have.
21:19:38 <V453000> (4way junction examples etc) right Zuu :)
21:20:15 <Simonn> [23:19] <Simonn> there are trains in the city, like lil trams picking the people up from home
21:20:16 <Simonn> [23:19] <Simonn> and getting them to the stations
21:25:14 <V453000> yeah, the trams are making it a bit too simple ;)
21:25:22 <V453000> getting it all with trains is really nice
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21:41:40 <planetmaker> I really wonder why you "waste" so many more passenger traffic by the huge amounts of company-owned land around your stations, Simonn
21:43:12 <planetmaker> everywhere where you have bought land, a town house could be - and generate traffic for your station
21:43:42 <Simonn> I got loads of traffic the stations can only handl like half
21:43:50 <Simonn> they are for expansion
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21:51:43 <V453000> most of the tiles are actually unbuildable anyway
21:52:14 <V453000> btw consider using magic bulldozer cheat when playing with towns
21:52:35 <V453000> makes it easier to manipulate with town stuff, and you cant reduce your local authority
21:52:54 <V453000> so no more pain when building new stations or needing to demolish some buildings
22:06:31 <V453000> press ctrl alt C to access the menu which turns it on, you can delete anything in the game with it. And you do not get authority penalties for the demolitions
22:06:48 <V453000> it makes games with towns a lot more fun
22:46:57 <DorpsGek> FLHerne: OpenTTD uses TCP and UDP port 3979 for server <-> client communication, UDP port 3978 for masterserver (advertise) communication (outbound), and TCP port 3978 for content service, a.k.a. BaNaNaS (outbound)
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