IRC logs for #openttd on OFTC at 2012-10-15
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02:02:32 <Qoph> Hello, I'm having an issue where I can't download any online content. The download is stuck displaying "Requesting files..."
02:02:45 <Supercheese> Firewall blocking?
02:03:09 <Supercheese> you wouldn't be able to see the list if it was
02:03:52 <Qoph> I'm running Windows 7, firewall is symantec endpoint
02:04:23 <Supercheese> You've been able to successfully download previously, correct?
02:04:31 <Supercheese> or is this your first attempt?
02:04:39 <Qoph> No, I just got the game today and I was trying to download some AIs
02:04:46 <Supercheese> ah, first attempt
02:06:00 <Supercheese> Well, I'm not an expert in networking issues, unfortunately
02:06:43 <Qoph> I can wait, I was going to go to the gym for a bit anyways
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02:24:18 <Qoph> Well I was able to download the file ... but not via the in game menu. Could someone tell me how to add it manually?
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04:21:59 <Qoph> weird, one managed to download at some point but I can't repeat it
04:22:33 <Supercheese> generally GRFs and AIs are available from both the in-game content downloader and the TT-forums
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07:25:08 <Qoph> Just to restate my issue with new info ... I can't download content with the ingame system, it gets stuck saying "Requesting files". I was somehow able to download the AIAI file at some point, but I'm not sure how. I keep getting this issue even when I turn my firewall off completely.
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07:30:40 <planetmaker> Qoph, what URL do you end up with when you go with your browser to binaries.openttd.org?
07:30:58 <planetmaker> and which files do you try to download?
07:31:29 <Qoph> I get a directory with bananas, custom, extra, nightlies, releases, scenerios, robots.txt
07:31:38 <Qoph> and I tried to download simpleAI
07:34:22 <planetmaker> ok, it's not the server then
07:34:27 <planetmaker> wanted to make sure that
07:35:05 <planetmaker> there are several which are used and you're transparently directed to the one closest to you
07:35:12 <planetmaker> (and which is least busy)
07:36:00 <Qoph> can you download things? just wondering
07:36:26 <planetmaker> yes. just tried that
07:37:32 <DorpsGek> planetmaker: OpenTTD uses TCP and UDP port 3979 for server <-> client communication, UDP port 3978 for masterserver (advertise) communication (outbound), and TCP port 3978 for content service, a.k.a. BaNaNaS (outbound)
07:37:43 <planetmaker> ^^ you have those ports available?
07:39:35 <Qoph> Yeah I found that on the forums and I tried to make exceptions for those
07:39:44 <Qoph> But maybe if I make it more specific
07:41:12 <NGC3982> Yes, that should work. Point your finger at the router and stare intently at it, while you in a hard tone say: "THREE. NINE. SEVEN. NINE. That's an order!1"
07:43:13 <Qoph> do I need to specify the application?
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07:45:17 <NGC3982> Qoph: In a normal router - No, you shouldn't.
07:45:41 <Qoph> I'm using symantec endpoint. cause my school requires it to connect.
07:46:04 <Qoph> tried a single rule for every port but it didnt' fix anything
07:46:22 <Qoph> But like I said, disabling the firewall didn't fix it either
07:48:28 <planetmaker> does your router allow the ports?
07:48:45 <Qoph> Dunno, I just plug in the ethernet cable
07:48:58 <Qoph> and there's a wizard for the connection settings
07:50:26 <planetmaker> well. I don't know your local network setup. But usually people stumble over their pc's firewall and / or their router's firewall, not being aware of one or the other
07:50:41 <planetmaker> how to solve either issue is beyond me, as I know not your hard and software setup
07:57:31 <NGC3982> My experience is that the Windows firewall doesn't prevent much without the user actively stoping it.
07:57:38 <NGC3982> I would go to an administrator
07:58:01 <Qoph> I went to the windows firewall settings and added exceptions, didn't help
07:58:35 <Eddi|zuHause> Qoph: if you are at home, the router is usually a small blinking box next to the telephone
07:58:47 <Qoph> I'm at school, I don't have a router
07:58:54 <Qoph> At least, not a visible one
07:59:04 <Eddi|zuHause> Qoph: if you are at school, the router is usually inaccessible to you
07:59:42 <NGC3982> Something tells me that you can not setup port forwarding in a School firewall setup without administrator priviliges.
08:00:03 <Yexo> that shouldn't be necesary for downloading files from the online content service
08:00:20 <Eddi|zuHause> schools usually have very strict port blocks
08:00:43 <Yexo> it's possible port 3978 is blocked, sure
08:00:54 <Yexo> but if so that's almost for certain in the router, not in the local pc
08:01:10 <Qoph> I could send a request about it, I guess.
08:01:21 <Qoph> Or, is there some way to configure the port it uses?
08:02:18 <Eddi|zuHause> Qoph: not for "ordinary people"
08:04:15 <Eddi|zuHause> Qoph: there may be an entry in openttd.cfg about using HTTP for download
08:04:27 <Eddi|zuHause> try flipping the setting "no_http_content_downloads"
08:04:45 <Qoph> where would I find that?
08:04:53 <Eddi|zuHause> you quit openttd
08:05:07 <Eddi|zuHause> then go to "My Documents\OpenTTD"
08:05:19 <Eddi|zuHause> there you edit openttd.cfg
08:05:27 <Eddi|zuHause> and restart openttd
08:06:05 <NGC3982> That switch was new to me.
08:06:45 <Qoph> switched it from false to true, trying again
08:08:09 * planetmaker didn't even remember that setting...
08:08:50 <NGC3982> How can that be turned on without manual alternation, anyway?
08:09:17 <Eddi|zuHause> you can also flip it from the console, but i doubt there's a GUI entry
08:09:18 <planetmaker> though... via rcon
08:09:28 <planetmaker> it's not supposed to have a GUI entry
08:09:55 <planetmaker> s/rcon/console - as eddi said :-)
08:10:08 <NGC3982> That's why im a bit confused on that setting being turned on in the first place
08:14:31 <planetmaker> NGC3982, iirc the old, first protocol for bananas was to not use http. That unconditionally accesses the main server
08:14:57 <planetmaker> current versions do use http which allows us to use load balancing and mirrors to distribute downloads to the closest source
08:15:29 <planetmaker> it's networking and not the area of I'm very familiar with
08:30:07 <peter1138> Uh, that reminds me, does it automatically failover?
08:41:47 <peter1138> Detect if a server is down and automatically not use it.
08:45:50 <peter1138> I'm trying to diagnose this load issue I'm having on my server, so I've disabled LXC guests. Which includes the mirror. I still need to reconfigure the host to serve the content instead. Sadly it takes a week or so just to see if the problem pops up again. :-(
08:52:22 <Qoph> i dunno whats funnier, that the AI made over 150 trucks or that they named all their towns random numbers
08:53:42 <Qoph> that and they're driving on a road that spans the continent
09:09:34 <peter1138> Oh bah, I fancied playing a game with high water (higher than high) and then realised you need cargo destinations to make it fun :-(
09:22:36 <Qoph> the AI just built two airports in the same city <_<
09:22:41 <Qoph> well time for bed anyways
09:31:26 <Eddi|zuHause> peter1138: not entirely sure how the water is relevant there :p
09:31:56 <NGC3982> peter1138: Cargo destinations?
09:33:47 <peter1138> Eddi|zuHause, lots of water means different transport methods involved, therefore good for it.
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09:34:15 <peter1138> How much fixing does it need?
09:34:17 <Eddi|zuHause> peter1138: i meant, _any_ game is "unfun" without destinations, water or not :)
09:35:06 <Eddi|zuHause> peter1138: YACD has performance troubles, and needs a more intelligent algorithm
09:35:45 <peter1138> I guess it's out of date now too?
09:36:29 <andythenorth> although it was / is pretty awesome all the same
09:36:37 <andythenorth> just play an older rev :P
09:36:48 <andythenorth> we need a cheaper routing algorithm
09:36:58 <peter1138> Is it something that throwing memory at it would help?
09:37:34 <Eddi|zuHause> peter1138: there's a thread in the forum
09:40:18 <peter1138> Ah repo is ancient ;-(
09:41:25 <NGC3982> What was the name of that NewGRF with that nice city graphics
09:41:35 <NGC3982> Lame questions, but that's all i got :(
09:42:27 <Eddi|zuHause> i don't know any NewGRF with nice city graphics
09:42:53 <NGC3982> Im trying to google it, but im failing on what to search for.
09:43:22 <NGC3982> Total Town Replacement!
11:01:27 <MNIM> NGC3982: TTRS is nice, but last time I tried, incompatible with current versions.
11:02:35 <Ammler> MNIM: you sure, you use the updated one?
11:02:56 <MNIM> I don't know. it's been a while, to be honest.
11:03:34 <planetmaker> TTRS is incompatible with what exactly?
11:03:54 <Ammler> there are 2 sequels afaik, the one updated by ^ and ECSHouses
11:03:57 <planetmaker> (it should work out-of-box and should even play nice with FIRS (but not ECS)
11:08:01 <NGC3982> MNIM: Current versions of what? OpenTTD?
11:08:31 <NGC3982> Im currently using TTRS with FIRS on 1.2.1
11:08:36 <NGC3982> No issues, what i can see.
11:08:54 <NGC3982> Not that 1.2.1 is ..new or something.
11:09:11 <planetmaker> sufficiently new ;-)
11:09:16 <Ammler> I assume, the erros MNIM experienced are the the reason pm made the bugfix relase
11:09:20 <planetmaker> (in this context)
11:09:35 <planetmaker> I call it feature release :D
11:26:01 <NGC3982> And you people on my off-topics.
11:26:11 <NGC3982> And you people whine on my off-topics.
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11:37:28 <Eddi|zuHause> oh, Ammler, what i've been meaning to ask: in the commit diffs (email), can you set an explicit text colour in addition to the background colour?
11:41:12 <Eddi|zuHause> "There is no file nor directory at the given path: 'vendor/plugins/redmine_diff_email/app/views/diff_mailer/diff_notification.text.html.rhtml' at revision 'cffb826a282c'"
11:44:12 <Eddi|zuHause> "<%= format_diff @diff %>" <-- must be in there somehow
11:49:54 <Ammler> Eddi|zuHause: possible it isn't a mail issue and generic diff format?
11:50:30 <Eddi|zuHause> very possible. just on the website it's wrapped into a generic style, so the issue doesn't show
11:51:38 <Eddi|zuHause> (issue being a surrounding style of light text on dark background, which makes text unreadable if background colour gets changed, but text colour not)
11:54:40 <MNIM> Ammler: I assume the same - around that time TTRS was quite dead as far as I could see, so I never bothered following it since.
11:55:12 <planetmaker> ttrs is still "dead". I just fixed it so that I can use it along with FIRS
11:55:35 <Ammler> Eddi|zuHause: can you post screenshot?
11:55:38 <planetmaker> and added the new meta-info so that it gets nicer descriptions ingame
11:55:48 <planetmaker> and readme view etc
11:56:06 <Ammler> for me, the diffs looks nice in the mails
11:57:24 <Ammler> text is black, background is white,green or pink
11:57:57 <planetmaker> luckily the original authors of ttrs posessed enough foresight to allow people do this to ttrs :-)
11:58:43 <Eddi|zuHause> Ammler: www.informatik.uni-halle.de/~krause/Bildschirmfoto18.png
11:59:01 <Ammler> yep, that isn't readable
11:59:30 <Eddi|zuHause> bright text on dark background being my regular KDE theme
12:00:18 <Ammler> oh, so basically it should also define body background color and text
12:00:57 <Eddi|zuHause> it would suffice to do that around the diffs, not needed in the "normal" text
12:01:26 <Eddi|zuHause> oh, and the text in the +/- line is monospaced, but in the unchanged lines is not
12:01:30 <Ammler> well, I pasted the part which I could edit without issue
12:01:48 <Ammler> basically add css styles there
12:02:10 <planetmaker> possibly it should send plain text e-mails? :-)
12:02:22 <Ammler> planetmaker: how do you colorize those?
12:02:48 <Ammler> you would prefer raw diffs?
12:02:49 <planetmaker> an intelligent programme sees a diff and uses the proper syntax highlighting
12:03:01 <Eddi|zuHause> but it could send the raw diff in the text part
12:03:24 <Ammler> Eddi|zuHause: well, you know :-D
12:03:36 <Ammler> (patch is always welcome)
12:03:55 <Eddi|zuHause> currently it's a html-only mail. if it were a two-part mail... :)
12:04:12 <Eddi|zuHause> but that has nothing to do with my problem
12:04:40 <Ammler> a quick fix might be to simply add background color
12:05:01 <Eddi|zuHause> yes, around the "<%= format_diff @diff %>" add background colour, text colour, and monospace font tags
12:08:25 <Ammler> Eddi|zuHause: but sorry, your email reader is crap
12:08:43 <Eddi|zuHause> no, why would it?
12:08:51 <Ammler> or do you really like to "override" the html specs of html pages
12:09:10 <Ammler> do you do that with your internet browser too?
12:09:33 <Ammler> override the html style with your custom whatever
12:09:54 <Eddi|zuHause> if the website does not set any colours, the OS colours are used
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12:10:23 <Ammler> Eddi|zuHause: you change the fonts
12:10:32 <Ammler> you don't use the font defined in the body
12:10:54 <Ammler> <body style=3D"font-family: Verdana, sans-serif; font-size: 1em; color:#4=84848;">
12:12:08 <Eddi|zuHause> hm, not sure why it ignores that
12:12:48 <Eddi|zuHause> remnant of a colour code, i presume?
12:13:15 <Ammler> but where does that come from, it's not in the template I posted
12:13:58 <Ammler> you have that in your email source too?
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12:14:56 <Eddi|zuHause> so the = is some kind of escape symbol?
12:15:17 <Ammler> so redmine does encode it wrongly or my gamil decode?
12:15:58 <Ammler> the error is at redmine, I would think and Eddi|zuHause mail client is just a bit stricter
12:16:08 <si-m1> probably mimedecode failure somewhere
12:16:42 <Eddi|zuHause> it arrives like that in the raw email code
12:17:30 <Ammler> let me check, if there are newer versions available
12:18:08 <Eddi|zuHause> it doesn't seem wrong, because inside the table stuff it looks the same way, and it applies colours etc.
12:18:40 <Eddi|zuHause> <th style=3D"border: 1px solid #d7d7d7; font-size: 0.8em; tex=
12:18:41 <Eddi|zuHause> t-align: right; width: 2%; padding-right: 3px; color: #999;">20</th>
12:20:07 <Ammler> someone else using the email_diff feature of devzone?
12:20:43 <Ammler> I might not have the most represantive mail client to compare with :-)
12:20:46 <si-m1> right, =3D is the same as "=" in quoted printable encode
12:21:07 <Eddi|zuHause> so the =3D is definitely not the issue
12:21:34 <Ammler> so again back to blame your client?
12:22:20 <Eddi|zuHause> well, not entirely. since even if it would set the text colour according to the body style, the text would again be unreadable because the body doesn't specify background colour
12:22:58 <Ammler> yeah, I just fear, I could not fix your font issue, can I
12:23:13 <Ammler> adding background color to body should be no big deal
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14:49:57 <Ponko> does anyone know how i can download OpenTTD i know how to download it but i'm having problems with getting anything to appear my browsers (using about 3 atm) i just get a load error :/
14:50:09 <Ponko> and hello to you planetmaker :P
14:51:17 <Ponko> i'm surprised it's not working on the browsers i'm using
14:51:33 <Ponko> if it was IE then yeah i'd get it lol :P
14:52:07 <planetmaker> I guess last time I used... hm, IE is not the last millenium. It was after I setup windows 7. To download firefox :-P
14:52:59 <Ponko> lol but i'm using firefox and i get the Problem loading page :/
14:53:14 <planetmaker> does it work for other pages?
14:53:26 <planetmaker> it = your browser
14:53:41 <Ponko> tried chrome and safari
14:54:22 <Ponko> and IE is just spamming me with the not responding window
14:55:41 <Ponko> i mean i can see the page to download the installer & zip archive but they will not load
14:56:38 <planetmaker> sorry... what exactly won't load?
14:56:45 <Ponko> eine problem Ich bin Englander :P wohnt im Schottland (yes my german is bad)
14:57:25 <planetmaker> I'm also not asking you to read the page(s), but to tell me whether they show meaningful content...
15:00:32 <planetmaker> hm... what URL do you get when you enter binaries.openttd.org into your browser, Ponko ?
15:00:38 <planetmaker> what URL does it resolve to?
15:00:50 * planetmaker looks at peter1138
15:03:18 <planetmaker> Ponko, ^^ please check which URL you get for binaries.openttd.org. The mirror you get directed to might be down
15:04:09 <Ponko> "The server at gb.binaries.openttd.org is taking too long to respond"
15:04:21 * planetmaker kicks peter1138 :-P
15:04:29 <planetmaker> try master.binaries.openttd.org
15:05:20 <planetmaker> thank your fellow countrymen :-P
15:05:42 <Ponko> thought you were german :P
15:06:04 <Ponko> or am i missing something... lol
15:06:16 <planetmaker> I am. But the gb mirror is down... giving you the issue. He's doing maintenance on it without disabling it in the balancer ;-)
15:07:43 <Ponko> AHHH hence why the installer won't run right?
15:08:18 <planetmaker> you're directed to the closest download-URL, the gb.binaries.o.o - but that is down
15:08:34 <Ponko> and yeah my german isn't the best need to brush but to clear any confusion i am English but can speak German a little
15:08:51 <planetmaker> I gave you that link to ovh.de as they host our server.
15:09:02 <planetmaker> not because I'm German...
15:09:47 <planetmaker> my first guess was that their logo screws up something (though it shouldn't or ever did)
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15:11:02 <peter1138> that much excitement? :p
15:12:05 <Ponko> well for me too but can't do the hugs :(
15:13:33 <Ponko> gonna go back to chrome
15:15:27 <peter1138> hmm, need to fix for those annoying downloaders that make 500 million requests for the same file instead of just waiting
15:17:15 <Ponko> well it's made my weekdays alot more bearable
15:17:25 <peter1138> which apparently apache does not support out of the box o_O
15:19:34 <Ponko> and why's that? look up the song apache :P
15:19:36 <SpComb> peter1138: iptables --limit-rate?
15:21:40 <NGC3982> planetmaker: That site feels so "Comfy at first, Then attack NSFW"
15:23:35 * MNIM clicked for the nsfw, is disappointed
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15:30:40 <NGC3982> One grows a natural suspicion of unnaturally nice URLs, after a few years on the intarwebz.
15:38:05 <Elukka> this can fix your too-nice urls
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15:47:30 <peter1138> there isn't a "download all" button, is there?
15:48:21 <NGC3982> Or wait, in what context?
15:48:44 * blathijs gives peter1138 a "Download the internet" button
15:53:28 <peter1138> context is openttd content window
15:54:24 <NGC3982> Then no, there is no "download all" button. The download-button although downloads everything you have marked,.
15:55:40 <Eddi|zuHause> there only is a "download all" button when you look at the dependencies of a savegame
15:55:59 <Eddi|zuHause> but not in the generic content downloader
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16:39:28 <FLHerne> Nice-looking thing :-)
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16:41:21 <FLHerne> Electric locos with coupling rods have always looked rather odd to me, but very interesting :P
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16:48:45 <planetmaker> not temperate ;-)
16:49:22 <FLHerne> Well, looks a bit deserty. No rainforests though...
16:50:11 <planetmaker> unless it's tundra ;-)
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17:17:20 <NGC3982> Is there any way for me to find out the complete size (in bytes) of everything housed in the Online Content at a given moment?
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17:37:09 <planetmaker> NGC3982, for things on the server: no. for you locally what you have from it: yes
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17:41:20 <planetmaker> remains also the question: what is "everything"?
17:42:03 <planetmaker> current versions? All available versions?
17:43:19 <planetmaker> (the latter won't help you as you will only get old versions, if you know their md5sum)
17:45:17 <NGC3982> Are all available versions downloadable in the Online Content instance?
17:45:41 <DorpsGek> Commit by translators :: r24596 /trunk/src/lang (5 files) (2012-10-15 17:45:30 UTC)
17:45:42 <DorpsGek> -Update from WebTranslator v3.0:
17:45:43 <DorpsGek> belarusian - 5 changes by KorneySan
17:45:44 <DorpsGek> danish - 18 changes by Knogle
17:45:45 <DorpsGek> french - 6 changes by glx
17:45:46 <DorpsGek> lithuanian - 5 changes by Stabilitronas
17:45:47 <DorpsGek> norwegian_nynorsk - 5 changes by 2rB
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17:54:47 <Rubidium> Sacro: that wasn't a Bjarni
17:55:04 <Rubidium> planetmaker: why couldn't he? He just needs to become a developer ;)
17:55:19 <DorpsGek> Sacro: Bjarni was last seen in #openttd 1 year, 1 week, 2 days, 17 hours, 36 minutes, and 12 seconds ago: <Bjarni> heh
17:57:58 <andythenorth> nobody wants to talk about cargo subtypes?
17:58:20 * Prof_Frink has Sacro walk the plank
17:58:46 <NGC3982> Total Town Replacement <3.
18:00:54 <Rubidium> andythenorth: I'd like to play my ignorance card on that subject
18:01:39 * NGC3982 would like to discuss that.
18:01:45 <andythenorth> you don't know about them? Or you don't know if anybody wants to talk about them?
18:01:56 <andythenorth> they're like our dirty little secret
18:02:01 <andythenorth> it's time for an intervention
18:02:48 <Rubidium> andythenorth: they're a pitb
18:03:14 <andythenorth> frosch123: would the sky fall if subtypes died?
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18:08:03 <planetmaker> Rubidium, well, maybe then :-) (but then... not sure I could find out in the next 30 minutes... missing knowledge)
18:09:51 <Rubidium> missing uri, password & sql skills?
18:10:26 <planetmaker> all of that, I assume, yes
18:12:13 <Rubidium> 60028910 downloads (que?)
18:12:16 <planetmaker> so social engineering is faster than data mining :-P
18:13:24 <Rubidium> 518226 downloads of binaryheap (half a million users?)
18:14:07 <planetmaker> binaryheap... what's that?
18:15:10 <planetmaker> though... it's in bananas for ages, I guess. And including all re-installs and re-downloads... maybe 250000 users?
18:15:34 <Rubidium> 23 912 445 581 786 total bananas download size
18:15:42 <andythenorth> what was the question? o_O
18:19:47 <Rubidium> how many bytes there were on bananas
18:20:05 <Rubidium> seems like firs wasted 60 GiB and fish 90 GiB of bandwidth
18:20:29 <Rubidium> 1316 GiB for OpenGFX from bananas
18:21:31 * Rubidium got the feeling the numbers are totally wrong
18:22:32 * andythenorth is determined to avoid ever using **kwargs or such
18:29:06 <frosch123> more appropiate picture
18:39:39 <MNIM> So. It looks like I thought up a new junction for high-speed train lines.
18:40:27 <FLHerne> MNIM: Are you sure? :P
18:40:40 <FLHerne> Most of them have already been invented ;-)
18:40:59 <MNIM> I'll post a shot as soon as I finish signaling it
18:53:23 <andythenorth> frosch123: can we remove subtypes, and post a kitten picture in the newgrf spec?
18:53:26 <MNIM> it's a high-speed mainline/branchline crossing, minimum turn length 5, size 40X22 (increases by 4x2 for 6 long turns)
18:57:59 <Wolf01> I'll would do some modifications, I bet you can remove at least 4 tunnels
18:58:32 <Pinkbeast> Also, why does the mainline divert such a long way?
18:58:49 <MNIM> to keep the signal gap small.
18:59:36 <Pinkbeast> OIC, to avoid long tunnels?
19:00:39 <FLHerne> Surely you could just have two parallel tunnels for each track, and have them almost twice as long?
19:01:45 <MNIM> well, two twice as long tunnels cost more money than one...
19:02:11 <MNIM> though, granted, at that kind of expected throughputs, I suppose money is not an issue any more.
19:03:16 <FLHerne> Er...yeah. Once you need a junction like that, the cost of a few tunnels is irrelevant :P
19:06:13 <peter1138> Rubidium, hard to get download stats when you don't get the logs
19:09:23 <MNIM> Hmmmh. You could put the inner mainlines through the middle at the cost of a couple of extra tunnels or bridges at the penalty of lessened throughput
19:23:16 <Rubidium> peter1138: but we have a balancer that counts
19:24:36 <peter1138> yeah but it doesn't count failed attempts (like when my server is rebooting) and possibly those downloaders that connect millions of times
19:24:46 <peter1138> (though i assume they only connect to the redirected host)
19:28:08 <NGC3982> Im having a distribution problem.
19:28:36 <NGC3982> (FIRS) Oil makes Petrol makes Engineering Supplies makes more oil.
19:29:21 <NGC3982> The distances between the production of Engineering supplies and oil fields are vast.
19:30:08 *** Chris_Booth has joined #openttd
19:30:17 <FLHerne> NGC3982: Make EngSup from something else then :P
19:30:20 <NGC3982> Something tells me distributing a transfer + trucks at each oil field will be a bit too much :/
19:30:42 <NGC3982> Making it look good != Making it work good.
19:32:22 <V453000> can be combined though :p
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19:36:20 <NGC3982> Speaking of trying to distribute enginering supplies accordingly.
19:36:38 <NGC3982> Using timetable to deliver a full truck load every 31 day, perhaps?
19:38:10 <FLHerne> NGC3982: Just use one of the million timetable-separation patches :P
19:39:15 <V453000> refit orders work best
19:39:24 <V453000> trains which brought raw cargo take away supplies
19:39:29 <V453000> no extra supplying trains
19:40:00 <Chris_Booth> Adding a single wagon on the end works weel
19:40:46 <Chris_Booth> depends on the set
19:40:55 <Chris_Booth> NUTS will let you refit to anying
19:41:36 <V453000> well someone might hate to build a refit station so he might use the single wagon method
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19:41:41 <V453000> not always enough space either
19:41:54 <V453000> and for TL5 that is only like 10% capacity loss
19:42:20 <V453000> so I would consider both options almost equal
19:42:34 <NGC3982> Im going to use a truck feeder.
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19:44:27 <NGC3982> The trucks have a 29 day wait at the EngSup station.
19:44:58 <V453000> you still have to send the train there
19:45:12 <NGC3982> I already have the trains for it
19:45:14 <V453000> which can be a bit many stations over the whole map
19:45:18 <NGC3982> The problem was distances
19:46:42 <V453000> idk how can distance be a real problem; I can see the issue systematically that if you have 50 of those stations how do you distribute the trians
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19:48:08 <FLHerne> V453000: With CDist and a train visiting them all in order :-)
19:48:21 <NGC3982> The distances make me deliver lots of Engineering supplies, but with very great gaps in time
19:48:32 <V453000> oh yeah or you can apply idiotic CDist which solves it for you :)
19:48:45 <V453000> I didnt consider dumb solutions ;)
19:48:48 <FLHerne> CDist isn't idiotic :P
19:49:11 <FLHerne> Only thing which makes pax/mail transport any fun :D
19:49:27 <NGC3982> Bringing 850 tonnes of EngSup every 36 months isnt really as effective as delivering 1 every single month.
19:49:57 <V453000> the beauty is to invent a mechanism which will do it effectively
19:50:00 <NGC3982> Thus, i guess this feeder system will work.
19:50:18 <V453000> but yeah you can use cargodist to let the game direct it for you
19:55:02 <NGC3982> That sounds automatic and useless.
19:59:30 <andythenorth> oh screw all that engineering supply crap
19:59:35 <andythenorth> just get latest FIRS
19:59:40 <andythenorth> breaks your old savegames, but meh
20:01:34 <NGC3982> Im sorry, but understanding Engineering supplies correctly. The amount is completely irrelevant to the production?
20:01:55 <andythenorth> which FIRS version?
20:03:25 <andythenorth> yeah, amount required is unconnected to production
20:03:31 <andythenorth> at least 1t per month is all
20:04:01 <NGC3982> I realized something odd
20:04:48 <NGC3982> For some reason, the trucks doesn't wait 29 days before leaving.
20:05:09 <NGC3982> They have the orders to fill up. Does that void the timetable?
20:14:00 <peter1138> anyone playing a 1.2.2 mp game ?
20:15:21 <andythenorth> stable version :o
20:19:14 <Rubidium> how can you play/use your 'own' application?
20:19:48 <Rubidium> having said that... it's kinda late for me to start a game
20:21:16 * andythenorth might have use kwargs
20:24:17 <andythenorth> smells of cheating
20:31:28 <__ln__> what will the United Kingdom be called after Scotland declares independence?
20:35:25 <Prof_Frink> __ln__: "The United Kingdom of Great Britain (Except Scotland) and Northern Ireland", of course.
20:40:35 * NGC3982 actually lives in an area named "The tiny unions".
20:47:55 <peter1138> V453000, nah, don't have the nightly installed
20:48:15 <V453000> just join the irc channel and download the package :)
20:52:06 <andythenorth> how long since advanced tilelayouts introduced?
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22:10:50 <Ethereal> is this the krusty krab?
22:15:51 <planetmaker> no. the rusty cap
22:21:04 * NGC3982 is sometimes refered to as Rusty.
22:22:56 <Ethereal> well, i was just looking on the forums
22:23:34 <Ethereal> and i cant seem to find an explanation of why there is an industry who produces beer, yet there are no cargo for it
22:26:00 *** XeryusTC_ is now known as XeryusTC
22:26:24 <planetmaker> if you mean vehicle support instead of cargo: non-default cargos always require proper vehicle sets to be included into the game, too
22:36:30 <Ethereal> so i'll need to find a way to edit cargos
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