IRC logs for #openttd on OFTC at 2012-07-09
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09:45:11 * NGC3982 just made his forst successful sql repair.
10:28:52 <fuzxl> Which AI is best for a beginner to play against?
10:29:01 <fuzxl> I played against RoadRunner and it's pretty tough
10:46:36 <welshdragon> Is there a way to override the 'Town is too close to another town' error in OpenTTD?
10:55:00 <dihedral> create 2 small towns as close as possible and grow them later on? :-P
10:55:47 <Eddi|zuHause> welshdragon: that is a hardcoded limit, so it can only be changed by patching
10:57:16 <DorpsGek> Eddi|zuHause: 46210.3333333
11:01:15 <dihedral> because running the os own calculator is too mainstream? :-P
11:11:41 <Terkhen> fuzxl: IIRC there is an AI comparative somewhere, probably in the wiki
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11:48:43 <fuzxl> Is there a mod that gives sprites for stations with more than two platforms?
11:49:17 <fuzxl> It looks somehow ridiculous that a station with three platforms has one roof and one platform without a roof
11:51:13 <michi_cc> Best NewGRF for passenger stations is NewStations IMHO. Not on the online content though
12:09:25 * dihedral seems to be a fuzz-nutt!
12:10:44 <peter1138> michi_cc, sadly so :-(
12:11:21 <peter1138> One of these days someone will step up to the challenge and make a contender to rival it.
12:18:07 <Eddi|zuHause> one of these days we'll make an exception to the ToS for CC-like licenses.
12:44:09 <Terkhen> what kind of exception?
12:47:02 <__ln__> would it be completely out of the question to -- without using newgrf -- not draw any roofs on stations that are not close enough to cities?
12:48:47 <Hirundo> If you build stations platform-by-platform, you get no roofs
12:50:33 <Hirundo> Your other options are either using newgrf or patching openttd
12:51:09 <__ln__> but seriously, why would a cargo-only station next to a forest or mine or whatever have a roof.
12:51:18 <__ln__> yes, i am talking about patching openttd.
12:54:01 <__ln__> the roof is even a separate sprite as far as i know, so not drawing it would technically not be a terribly big problem.
12:55:02 <Hirundo> You can patch ottd all you like, but I don't expect such a patch to end up in trunk, as this is exactly what newgrfs were invented for
12:55:35 <__ln__> lol, i definitely don't expect any patch to end up in trunk.
12:55:47 <Hirundo> But you could certainly apply a patch locally and join MP servers, compatibility should be no issue
12:59:47 <__ln__> but does the existence of newgrfs mean that no changes will ever be done to the actual code anymore?
13:01:22 <Terkhen> in general, any options that can be implemented via newgrf are not considered for implementation in openttd
13:02:03 <Terkhen> there are exceptions though, such as currencies
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13:05:34 <dihedral> i think i possibly have a bug in the date handling of openttd
13:06:06 <dihedral> if _date = 713012 the game is at 1952-2-29
13:06:30 <dihedral> if _date = 713013 it's 1952-2-1
13:06:50 <Terkhen> __ln__: why is not wanting to duplicate work in both implementation and bug checking silly?
13:08:45 <NGC3982> did you guys make this?
13:09:13 <Hirundo> dihedral: If I fast-forward through february 1952, I see nothing strange
13:09:56 <dihedral> yes - i did not see it in game either... i am somewhat puzled right now
13:09:59 <Terkhen> NGC3982: no, check the suggestions subforum
13:10:30 <dihedral> i am using a ConvertDateToYMD(_date, &ymd); in a daily loop
13:10:43 <dihedral> and printing every day
13:14:52 <peter1138> February happened twice in 1952.
13:16:02 <__ln__> Terkhen: the stations are drawn some way in the code already (as far as i understand, without the help of newgrfs). so the duplicate work already exists, adjusting the code slightly does not change the situation.
13:18:47 <Hirundo> __ln__: What about people who do like roofed stations and suddenly find the roofs removed?
13:19:00 <Terkhen> what if a newgrf author decides that he always wants roofs? or if an old newgrf uses the roof sprites to hack something that it is not a roof? the openttd code would need to deal with those cases
13:19:26 <__ln__> Hirundo: they can use a newgrf then, right?
13:20:20 <Hirundo> I think *you* should be the one using a newgrf
13:20:49 <__ln__> Terkhen: so newgrf roof drawing relies on openttd at least trying to draw the roof?
13:21:02 <__ln__> Hirundo: but i don't like newgrfs.
13:22:27 <Hirundo> That, fortunately, is not my problem
13:23:38 <Terkhen> I don't know the implementation details
13:23:44 <Hirundo> If you don't like newgrfs, you can't expect openttd to behave the way you like, just so you can live without newgrfs
13:24:00 <Terkhen> I was assuming that it worked like you mentioned
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13:25:43 <__ln__> Terkhen: i'm 89.3% sure the platform and roof sprites are separate (and therefore drawn separately), but i don't know how newgrfs works.
13:29:47 <Belugas> sir Terkhen :) faithfully at the station ;)
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15:50:18 <Rubidium> dihedral: are you really sure of that? Isn't it 1952-1-29 then 1952-2-1?
15:52:05 <dihedral> Rubidium, i was also using _cur_year and _cur_month+1, as soon as i only used the calculated ymd value, i could not reproduce it
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15:53:52 <dihedral> i assume they only get set after the daily loop runs?
15:56:45 <dihedral> so within a dailyloop, making use of _cur_month should not be done
15:56:54 <dihedral> some thing with monthly loop making use of _cur_year
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16:15:27 <dihedral> Rubidium, is it done on purpose that _cur_month is set after dailyLoops run?
16:19:34 <frosch123> doing stuff at the end of month vs. doing stuff at the begin of month
16:23:09 <dihedral> it's stil the same month!
16:29:22 <frosch123> hmm, why was the "vehicle is hidden" flag aded to var 62?
16:30:37 <michi_cc> frosch123: I'd guess for easier coding of non-glitching tunnels in CETS.
16:31:46 <frosch123> is there any chance that someone reading the specs might think that it might refer to the current vehicle, instead of the one addressed by the 60+x parameter?
16:38:13 <frosch123> oh, the variable is not supported by nml?
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16:55:08 <michi_cc> frosch123: Stupidity is unlimited, so yes, somebody could misunderstand it, but I think it is pretty clear.
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17:46:32 <CIA-4> OpenTTD: translators * r24389 /trunk/src/lang/ (9 files): (log message trimmed)
17:46:32 <CIA-4> OpenTTD: -Update from WebTranslator v3.0:
17:46:32 <CIA-4> OpenTTD: catalan - 3 changes by mtormo
17:46:32 <CIA-4> OpenTTD: dutch - 3 changes by habell
17:46:32 <CIA-4> OpenTTD: english_US - 3 changes by Rubidium
17:46:33 <CIA-4> OpenTTD: finnish - 2 changes by jpx_
17:46:33 <CIA-4> OpenTTD: german - 3 changes by planetmaker
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17:49:24 <Alberth> andythenorth: what about the following error: "fish.nml", line 268: String "STR_2_DIESEL_CYCLOIDAL" not available
17:49:38 <andythenorth> line number is enough
17:50:05 <Alberth> I shall remove the string name :D
17:56:54 <andythenorth> well...it's helpful :P
17:57:27 <Alberth> issue 3932 looks like yours
18:05:40 <Terkhen> andythenorth: I have seen a game in which a recycling depot is producing over 6000t of recyclables :P
18:07:39 * andythenorth needs inspiring to some TTD stuff
18:08:36 <NGC3982> make me a year one truck.
18:08:57 <NGC3982> or make me an expert in sql query.
18:09:05 * andythenorth considers making a kitten related GS
18:09:06 <Terkhen> andythenorth: since the server they are playing has no train support for recyclables, the player who is trying to transport them created a huge traffic jam :P
18:09:55 <andythenorth> it's a very large city?
18:10:32 <Alberth> NGC3982: use LINQ, and pretend to be an expert
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18:12:42 <andythenorth> they should get ships
18:12:45 <andythenorth> and build a canal
18:13:03 <Alberth> and dump the trash in the canal :p
18:13:06 <andythenorth> that's one 200t barge per day, nothing :P
18:13:47 <andythenorth> one day I might work on it
18:14:17 <andythenorth> I got interested, then I got bored because it's not very good really
18:14:35 <andythenorth> bloated, lacks interesting gameplay
18:14:42 <andythenorth> I like the graphics though
18:14:44 <Terkhen> it is quite good IMO :P
18:15:04 <Alberth> add economies so you can have a smaller set?
18:15:31 <andythenorth> it fails to generate interesting maps
18:15:39 <andythenorth> and placing them in scenario editor is 'meh'
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18:16:49 * andythenorth is hoping Pikka returns with TAI
18:17:06 <andythenorth> maybe I'm starting my games too early
18:17:57 <Alberth> aren't you waiting forever with the horse driven vehicles?
18:18:00 <andythenorth> lots of industries missing in 1870
18:18:08 <andythenorth> and the ships aren't finished either :P
18:18:27 <andythenorth> the new industry types generally don't get added to the map
18:18:39 * Alberth imagines half-finished ships floating passed :)
18:19:10 <andythenorth> if I put the renders in, that's what you'd get ;)
18:20:18 <andythenorth> diagonal rivers?
18:20:25 <andythenorth> rivers that get wider near the sea?
18:20:48 <andythenorth> the basic river algorithm is pretty pleasing
18:23:21 <Alberth> less easy deletable rivers
18:24:04 <andythenorth> just store 'this tile wants to be river' already :)
18:24:12 <andythenorth> perhaps it's not that easy :P
18:24:46 <frosch123> hmm, what's the correct behaviour for fs#5213?
18:24:55 * andythenorth ponders adding a Warehouse / Port industry
18:24:58 <frosch123> deny the cloning to clone invalid orders?
18:25:47 <andythenorth> are orders still an arse for articulated RVs btw?
18:26:17 <Alberth> copy the invalid orders into the clone?
18:26:48 <andythenorth> trying to route an articulated pax vehicle to drive-in stop produces error string
18:26:55 <frosch123> currently i am pondering copying invalid orders if they are already invalid for the source
18:26:58 <andythenorth> trying to route to a truck stop doesn't
18:27:08 <andythenorth> game doesn't know what the right thing to do is here
18:27:32 <frosch123> andythenorth: you can route it to a drive-through stop and then replace the dts with a normal one
18:27:54 <andythenorth> it will just drive round in circles then?
18:28:01 * andythenorth remembers that behaviour
18:28:10 <Alberth> frosch123: the cloned copy will get caught by the order checking anyway
18:28:36 <Alberth> or we need to ask confirmation
18:28:42 <frosch123> andythenorth: sometimes they even skip the order
18:28:54 <Alberth> but that's a lot of hassle
18:29:43 <Alberth> hmm, if they share orders, the problem is not growing
18:29:55 <andythenorth> "Oil has been discovered near Beaberg. You need to move people and supplies to the oil fields, and transport the oil out. There is a port at Sluchester Falls which will supply some of the cargos you need, and accept the oil. Other cargos you will have to find yourself from the map."
18:30:11 <andythenorth> "Your company has a 30 year concession to move as much oil and supplies as possible"
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18:30:31 <andythenorth> "But if your town rating drops too low for too many years, your concession may be revoked"
18:30:50 <andythenorth> sound interesting?
18:31:12 <andythenorth> would be either a specific map, or a generic map
18:31:17 <andythenorth> generic / random /s
18:32:20 <frosch123> oh, ogfx+rv had no articulated vehicles?
18:34:25 <Alberth> andythenorth: I think it'd be useful if the GS could give you such assignments
18:34:35 <andythenorth> no idea if it can
18:34:45 <andythenorth> I don't really understand GS
18:34:52 <Terkhen> frosch123: none at all :P
18:35:05 <Alberth> GS can open windows with message :)
18:35:11 <frosch123> well, i had to edit my grfs ingame to get some :p
18:35:29 <frosch123> i had already layed my testtrack, so did not want to restart :)
18:36:02 <andythenorth> GS can't spawn industries?
18:36:50 <frosch123> the gs needs a rich uncle
18:37:03 <frosch123> take a look at zuu's split scenario
18:37:51 <andythenorth> needs designed so that it doesn't have to control the newgrf
18:38:03 <andythenorth> anyone want to poke at it with me, or something like it?
18:38:13 <andythenorth> I won't work on it on my own, lacking motivation :P
18:39:05 <Alberth> Zuu: did you find my new patch?
18:39:17 <Zuu> Yep, I haevn't yet tried it out.
18:39:26 <andythenorth> GS would be independent of vehicle newgrfs
18:39:30 <andythenorth> would require FIRS
18:39:37 <Zuu> Do I need to update the GS or did you just fix bugs?
18:39:44 <andythenorth> would be interesting to make it work on any random map :O
18:40:00 <andythenorth> actually....would want control over mapgen, GS can't do that?
18:40:16 <Alberth> generalized to monitoring towns as well, and does load/save of the monitored combinations into the savegame
18:41:10 <Alberth> I tried your script, and it works nicely for the industry part
18:41:40 <Alberth> but it'd be nice if it could also do some testing with towns
18:42:24 <Zuu> I'll take a look at it eventually. Currently I work on my t-loop website.
18:43:16 <Alberth> I have to re-check the doxy comments, then find out whether it is good enough :)
18:43:33 <Alberth> If it is, it'll probably end up in trunk quite soon-ish
18:45:37 <CIA-4> OpenTTD: frosch * r24390 /trunk/src/order_cmd.cpp:
18:45:37 <CIA-4> OpenTTD: -Change [FS#5213]: Allow cloning of orders which are unreachable for the
18:45:37 <CIA-4> OpenTTD: destination vehicle if they were already unreachable for the source vehicle.
18:45:37 <CIA-4> OpenTTD: This makes cloning/autorenewing/autoreplacing behave more smooth during station
18:45:37 <CIA-4> OpenTTD: reconstruction.
18:45:37 <Zuu> Ah sorry for not being overenthuastic. I see it may certainly be useful, Im just having my focus elsewhere tonight. :-)
18:46:04 <Alberth> Zuu: np, that just happens
18:47:26 <Alberth> it is just that I have vacation now, so I have more time and want to get this out of the way
18:48:03 <Alberth> since your script worked for the industries, I don't really expect trouble with the towns, as it works in exactly the same way as the industries
18:48:38 <andythenorth> Alberth: you have vacation :O
18:48:39 <Alberth> so I see little reason to wait much
18:48:43 <andythenorth> go somewhere sunny
18:48:50 * andythenorth assumes northern europe is not sunny for Alberth
18:49:09 <Alberth> I like not too much sun
18:49:26 <Alberth> 20+ degrees is enough for me
18:49:59 <andythenorth> it was 33' in Sardinia
18:50:18 <andythenorth> on the flight, it was obvious that there is solid low cloud all the way from UK to Grenoble
18:50:23 <andythenorth> then pure sun :P
18:51:05 <andythenorth> also vacation means you can join my new GS project :D
18:51:34 <Alberth> andythenorth: you didn't read my patch did you? :)
18:53:46 <Alberth> +/** @file script_cargomonitor.hpp Everything to monitor cargo pickup and deliveries by companies. */ <-- a small extract from it
18:54:47 <andythenorth> there's a GS forum somewhere
18:55:36 <andythenorth> does GS yet have a 'challenge goals progress' screen?
18:55:47 <andythenorth> replacing the stupid existing 'game goals' screen
18:56:17 <andythenorth> "Detailed Performance Rating" <- should die :P
18:56:39 <andythenorth> I want things like "Amount Cargo X delivered (all time)"
18:57:01 <frosch123> what i actually miss most about gs is a logbook
18:57:08 <andythenorth> "Amount Cargo Z delivered to Frondingham since 1974"
18:57:23 <frosch123> whenever i played one of zuu's scripts i wanted a method to read the messages i just closed
18:57:42 <Alberth> they are not in the news history?
18:58:01 <frosch123> the news history has only news, not goal questons/info boxes
18:58:26 <Zuu> frosch123: For the tutorial, I think the messages also end up in the AI debug window.
18:58:53 <Zuu> For the split scenario, I don't think that GS prints its messages to the debug log.
18:58:59 <frosch123> Zuu: haha, so the debug gui is part of the tutorial :)
18:59:55 <Zuu> The tutorial does it for historical reasons. TutorialAI used signs for display and they are even more unreadable than centered text in a window. Especially if you were unlucky with the color selection.
18:59:58 <frosch123> anyway, some usages of the current popup windows could also be replaced by some objectives windows
19:00:12 <frosch123> which comes closer to what andy meant with the performance rating
19:01:30 <frosch123> hmm, is 12pm noon or midnight?
19:02:57 <frosch123> looks like 12pm = (12 + epsilon) pm
19:03:08 <Rubidium> that's why you NEVER use 12pm or 12am in the real world
19:03:53 <frosch123> i thought that's why every advanced civilisation does not use am and pm?
19:04:53 <frosch123> am and pm are way better suited to run #coop :)
19:10:50 <Alberth> especially in the morning
19:12:09 <frosch123> i was always wondering whether they do 12 hours shift at #coop
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19:15:39 <planetmaker> lol, frosch123 ;-)
19:16:39 <frosch123> see, i almost never see am, but i am also usually only here during pm-hours
19:18:38 <NGC3982> am or pm seems to be a 18th century thing
19:38:27 <Afdal> Hey sometimes I run into a bug
19:38:38 <Afdal> in multiplayer and while fooling around alone
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19:38:55 <Afdal> where all the trains in a game will forget to regularly service
19:39:12 <Afdal> Does anyone know what causes this?
19:40:28 <Afdal> I just had it happen right now while I was messing around with the change date cheat
19:41:09 <Alberth> that counts as fooling around yeah :)
19:41:33 <Afdal> however sometimes it happens during a normal multiplayer game
19:41:46 <Afdal> with no fiddling like that
19:42:13 <Alberth> at least in the latter case, a bug report with savegame would be useful
19:42:15 <Afdal> Haven't seen it happen in a while but the last time was in a v1.1.5 or so game
19:43:08 <Alberth> do the dates of last service seem ok then?
19:43:24 <CIA-4> OpenTTD: frosch * r24391 /trunk/src/town_cmd.cpp: -Change [FS#5229]: Disallow original and better road layouts to build roads under bridges along the bridge direction.
19:43:49 <Afdal> well I have the last service date on this as 2076
19:43:56 <Afdal> and I have the year set as 2043 now
19:44:09 <Afdal> so that would probably explain what happened there
19:44:10 <Alberth> that sounds like a date cheat effect
19:44:26 <Afdal> But I'm fairly certain this happened in a multiplayer game with no date cheating one time
19:44:49 <Alberth> I don't think it counts as real bug, cheats have all kind of weird side effects
19:45:28 <Alberth> well, if you find one without cheats, please report it, so we can have a look at it
19:45:49 <Afdal> Don't have that save anymore but if I come across it again I will
19:46:04 <Alberth> also not in the autosave?
19:46:22 <Afdal> nah, that was way too long ago
19:46:44 <Alberth> it's just that many people forget they exist :)
19:47:09 <Afdal> Actually, I do have a save
19:47:17 <Afdal> But no proof that it happened
19:47:27 <Afdal> other than the fact that the date cheat checkbox isn't checked
19:47:58 <Alberth> if you let the game run, no train should get serviced, right?
19:48:08 <Alberth> oh, did you move depots?
19:48:33 <Alberth> they have to be close enough to the lines they drive on to find the depots
19:48:38 <Afdal> but they didn't at one point, and everyone's company profits nosedived for a while
19:48:49 <Afdal> Yeah I don't think it was a pathfinding issue
19:48:58 <Afdal> I can't remember what fixed the problem though
19:49:25 <Alberth> I have seen that happen where I used old trains too long, so they break down all the time
19:49:52 <Afdal> everyone was using the latest trains
19:49:57 <Alberth> and then they reach 1% reliability, and break down every 3 tiles, while driving to the depot :p
19:50:24 <Afdal> One thing I know that resolves this issue during a game is sending trains to depot
19:50:29 <Afdal> to reset the maintenance
19:50:40 <Afdal> but I can't remember if that's what we did
19:51:09 <Alberth> yeah, it doesn't matter how they reach the depot, but you want it happening automatically
19:52:54 * andythenorth needs some kind of Hello World GS
19:53:32 * Afdal needs an IRC-OpenTTD relay bot that works on Windows
19:53:33 <andythenorth> maybe just pops up a dialog with "Hello World"
19:53:40 <Afdal> We all can dream though can't we
19:53:50 <Alberth> Afdal: another possible explanation is if you have a depot in the orders
19:54:05 <Alberth> then it won't go looking for a depot any more
19:54:21 <Afdal> well in this game we were relying entirely on automatic maintenance
19:54:28 <Afdal> so nothing in the orders
19:58:34 <Alberth> andythenorth: the split scenario GS may be a good starting point?
19:58:49 <andythenorth> do I look in forums for that?
19:59:24 <frosch123> but you can thank zuu afterwards via the scenario forums :p
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20:00:40 <Zuu> andythenorth: I have a template/minimal GS that I duplicate whenever I want to create a new GS. :-)
20:01:10 <Zuu> I could upload it somewhere if you want it. But it might be a bit silent as "hello world".
20:01:36 <Zuu> TransportGoals is otherwise a fairly short GS.
20:01:43 <Zuu> that still does something.
20:03:52 <andythenorth> maybe I play Split scenario first ;)
20:03:58 <andythenorth> looks interesting
20:04:04 <Afdal> yeah it's nothing like that Alberth
20:04:25 <Afdal> all the tracks in this save are simple uh
20:04:36 <Afdal> one-track-per-direction networks
20:04:44 <Afdal> with short distances to depots
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20:05:13 <Alberth> Afdal: without a save game in a broken state, it is sort of hopeless to find anything, I think
20:05:59 <Alberth> just keep an eye out, and let us know when you find anything
20:06:12 <Zuu> andythenorth: Some people complained that it was too easy, so the current second version is quite a bit harder. Mostly you may run out of time if you are too slow.
20:06:27 <Zuu> The goal will wait forever, but the secondary industries doesn't wait forever.
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20:45:53 <frosch123> just let them play simcity
20:47:16 <planetmaker> what shall we think? It's how it is
20:47:31 <Nat_aS> why do people think Locomotion is a good direction for graphics?
20:47:53 <planetmaker> models scale easier
20:49:25 <Nat_aS> well they kind of have a point, but Newgrf is more important then they think it is
20:49:52 <planetmaker> they are important. But many in the forums probably also overrate them ;-)
20:50:03 <frosch123> Nat_aS: actually they do not have a point
20:50:12 <planetmaker> the forums = our forums.
20:50:14 <Nat_aS> it's better to slowly work on modernising the game without upturning Newgrfs in the process, than it is to just throw the baby out with the bathwater.
20:50:21 <frosch123> they are suggesting to replace one plugin mechanism with a different one
20:50:53 <frosch123> but the problems they critisize is that plugins depend on each other and cannot be replaced one by one without affecting the other ones
20:51:07 <frosch123> but that problem does not change when changing the plugin mechanism
20:51:08 <Nat_aS> a lot of OTTDs problems is because it's a game from the 90s that was never intended to be this big of a modding sandbox
20:51:30 <Nat_aS> but it's still somehow a better modding sandbox than Simutrans
20:51:35 <Nat_aS> which was designed from the ground up
20:51:39 <planetmaker> it has some historic ballast there. But... would it be better if freshly designed?
20:52:01 <Nat_aS> I have no idea why they don't give modders more options in Simutrans
20:52:21 <Nat_aS> you get one company color, and one empty/loaded sprite
20:52:29 <Nat_aS> no half full or random cargo options
20:52:33 <planetmaker> the challenges are in how mods interact. What info individual mods get. And what they may (all) change
20:52:34 <frosch123> i am not that fluent with simutrans, but isn't it like you can only load one mod (pak) at a time?
20:52:42 <Nat_aS> there are so many more options avalable to OTTD modders it's not even funny
20:52:50 <frosch123> i.e. you always have to provide a complete baseset and cannot do small things
20:53:05 <Nat_aS> I'm not sure, but I think so.
20:53:23 <frosch123> well, then compare the number of paks for simutrans with the number of basesets for ottd :p
20:55:19 <frosch123> LordAro: anyway, you can compare that library idea with patchpacks
20:55:34 <frosch123> it only works for a few patches and then totally collapses
20:57:12 <planetmaker> the suggested split of the features in "libraries" is what we advocate for long: one feature per newgrf
20:57:30 <LordAro> i shall probably be sharing this section of the log with the OP, as long as that's alright :)
20:57:35 <planetmaker> doesn't mean that they're magically working well together in a sense of good looking. But means it will work most likely
20:57:58 <frosch123> LordAro: i am a fan of teamliquid.net, so reddit is bullshit :p
20:58:54 * planetmaker tries to figure out what teamliquid might be... doesn't quite get the idea from the main page
20:59:09 <frosch123> planetmaker: starcraft 2
20:59:49 <planetmaker> I guess I never really played it
21:01:12 <frosch123> anyway, to stress some myths: tl is the "good, well moderated forum" while reddit is the "unmoderated troll-area" :p
21:02:32 <Nat_aS> 4chan is where all the cool kids hang out, Reddit is a bunch of children and newbies
21:03:04 <frosch123> yeah, luckily there are places where no cool children hang out
21:03:56 <frosch123> maybe we can move tt-forums offtopic to reddit :p
21:04:15 <frosch123> reddit is quite suited for offtopic stuff
21:04:17 <Nat_aS> reddit has managed to draw a lot of fail away from 4chan
21:04:21 <LordAro> it isn't really that bad, as long as you don't read the comments :L
21:05:34 <Afdal> when has youtube ever gotten cancer off 4chan
21:05:39 <Afdal> if anything it's brought more to it
21:06:18 <Nat_aS> no i mean youtube is good as long as you don't read the comments
21:06:38 <frosch123> the up-voted comments on yt are usually fine
21:06:39 <Afdal> I'm thinking more along the lines of attention whores
21:06:51 <Afdal> hay guise I made you a video
21:08:03 <Afdal> Although I'm thinking more of the Let's Play whores currently scumming up /v/
21:08:14 <Afdal> Although livestream probably did more for that than youtube
21:13:19 <Nat_aS> first time I read something on reddit that increased my faith in humanity
21:14:14 <LordAro> it is a rare occurrence :)
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21:15:45 <Nat_aS> The "decade long civ2 game" was pretty cool, but the fact that mainstream news sources reported on it like a video game was somehow prophetical negated that.
21:16:29 <NGC3982> a decade long civ2 game?
21:16:59 <Nat_aS> somebody has been playing the same game of Civ2 on and off for more than 10 years, (He has a life but for some reason he keeps coming back to it)
21:17:07 <Nat_aS> and it's a dystopian future resembling 1984
21:17:21 <Nat_aS> 1700 years of neuclear warfare
21:18:01 <LordAro> am i saw it before the media found it! :)
21:19:32 <frosch123> yeah, when those things get on mainstream media its always like seeing the movie when you already know the book
21:20:11 <frosch123> like, you know already all details, then are amazed that it gets on mainstream, and then you are shocked how wrong the article is :p
21:20:15 <Nat_aS> "I was forced to do away with democracy roughly a thousand years ago because it was endangering my empire," Lycerius writes; his Senate kept overruling him when he wanted to declare war on the Vikings.
21:20:24 <Nat_aS> he however refuses to switch to Fanatasism
21:20:35 <Nat_aS> despite everyone's sugestion
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