IRC logs for #openttd on OFTC at 2012-05-19
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01:45:42 <nicfer> I suppose everyone is aware about the glitch that prevents to save using the 'Enter' key after selecting a savegame to overwrite
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02:12:40 <Eddi|zuHause> never suppose anyone is aware about anything. always make a report.
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08:50:18 <Elukka> first commercial launch to the ISS in 5 minutes
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08:51:57 <planetmaker> oh, thx. I nearly forgot, Elukka :-)
08:56:50 <Elukka> better it aborts there than in the air
08:57:17 <Elukka> i'm interested to know what happened though
08:57:24 <Elukka> it aborted after ignition
08:57:31 <planetmaker> they said that flight computers did not start up
08:59:50 <Elukka> instantaneous launch window, can't try again today
09:01:10 <Alberth> someone's day is very much ruined :p
09:01:17 <planetmaker> sure not. They had a partial ignition. You want every system on 100% capacity before start ;-)
09:01:23 <planetmaker> haha, Alberth, I guess you're right
09:01:55 <planetmaker> though... on the last sounding rocket campaign everything worked... until the parachute was supposed to open...
09:02:10 <planetmaker> we only got back a pile of scattered experiment remains
09:02:19 <planetmaker> luckily the flash card survived the 80km drop
09:02:26 <planetmaker> with all the data
09:02:53 <Alberth> ah you got all the important bits :)
09:03:13 <planetmaker> yup. But the dreams to re-fly it were literally shattered :-P
09:06:54 <Hazzard> You always want to know what went wrong the first time
09:08:33 <planetmaker> in any case, I guess our experiment ride on the dragon space craft will be delayed, too :-P
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13:35:43 <spongie> Is it possible to change the displayed text of a button to some dynamic string, like displaying a specific integer etc?
13:37:32 <spongie> I have a button that opens a string query, I'd like the text displayed to be an integer value.
13:37:47 <spongie> im guessing one has to define parameters to replace the {*} things in the strings
13:38:15 <planetmaker> patch / AI / GS / Newgrf?
13:41:14 <planetmaker> yes, you define a string with parameter. where the number is the parameter
13:41:39 <planetmaker> "Clone {COMMA} cars at once"
13:42:03 <planetmaker> actually... "Clone {COMMA} car {P 0 "" s} at once"
13:46:59 <spongie> How come the caption of my query string window does not recognize {WAYPOINT} ?
13:53:18 <spongie> how do I set the value of what is inside {COMMA} {NUM} or whatever
13:56:14 <Alberth> there are examples all over the place in the code
13:59:18 <spongie> however, the {*} contains a name and the D params seem to be index based.
13:59:37 <spongie> If I have "{A} and {B}" that means I set parameters 0 and 1 ?
13:59:49 <Alberth> names are useless with {STRING}{STRING}
14:02:53 <spongie> I have two problems setting my value. 1) ShowQueryString seems to be a singleton window, is it possible to make it unique per parent only? and 2) ShowQueryString has two string parameters, I can currently only set the parameter for the first (the preset value in the input), how do I set the caption string parameter?
14:03:13 <spongie> (i.e the input window title parameter)
14:04:36 <Alberth> no idea, I have not seen that code for several years
14:05:19 <Alberth> I would not be surprised if it is not possible currently
14:05:57 <Alberth> does the program have a string query window with variable caption somewhere, currently?
14:06:50 <spongie> How would you recommend I make an integer input for my window?
14:07:15 <Alberth> what's wrong with the current query window?
14:07:35 <spongie> the two problems I described above
14:09:48 <Alberth> I don't understand 1, and why is a fixed "Input value" kind of caption not good enough, given that you have one such window, so no way to get confused, I think
14:10:22 <Alberth> but if you think it should be done in a different way, extend the code :)
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14:11:20 <spongie> Alberth: one is not about the caption
14:11:26 <spongie> one is about it being a singleton
14:11:35 <Alberth> yes, why is that bad?
14:12:08 <Alberth> having 5 windows with just a edit box to enter a number is not useful imho, as I can type in one at a time only
14:12:28 <spongie> So the last one is always for the last activated?
14:13:59 <Alberth> why is a double click to edit a number not a good solution
14:14:29 <spongie> i dont know what you mean, double click
14:14:38 <spongie> currently when you click a button in my ui the input appears
14:15:44 <Alberth> so I type a number, press enter, done. What's the problem?
14:16:10 <planetmaker> I've the strong feeling that this discussion is way too abstract and would simplify tremendously if we talked a concrete use case and existing patch
14:16:50 <Alberth> I agree, concrete cases always work best :)
14:17:45 <spongie> Alberth: if one presses the button, the input appears. if one then presses the same button but in another window, the input is a singleton
14:17:55 <spongie> but yes, I can see the point of not allowing multiple inputs
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14:43:46 <spongie> im almost ready to showcase the patch, what would be the best way? forum post?
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16:59:35 * andythenorth has recently sent something into space
16:59:40 <andythenorth> more on that another time :P
17:01:46 <NGC3982> andythenorth: what was it?
17:03:41 <Alberth> bits into cyber-space :p
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17:45:28 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: translators * r24263 /trunk/src/lang/ (catalan.txt latvian.txt swedish.txt):
17:45:28 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: -Update from WebTranslator v3.0:
17:45:28 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: catalan - 88 changes by arnau
17:45:28 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: latvian - 1 changes by Parastais
17:45:28 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: slovenian - 2 changes by
17:45:29 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: swedish - 37 changes by Joel_A, Zuu
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19:56:55 <OpenTTDfan> i see a lot of idlers..anyone active?
19:57:39 <OpenTTDfan> you just a regular player?
19:58:01 <Alberth> I hardly play, unless you mean in the source code :)
19:58:15 <OpenTTDfan> so you're a developer?
19:58:42 <OpenTTDfan> are you open to ideas?:)
19:59:26 <Alberth> ideas are the easy part
19:59:55 <OpenTTDfan> I'm loving the open ttd....I'm opening it every morning, before the browser :P
19:59:55 <Alberth> getting them working in all edge cases and thinking them through is the real challenge
20:00:23 <Alberth> as you can see in the suggestions forum, there are many people doing suggestions
20:00:57 <OpenTTDfan> in a reasonable matter
20:01:00 <Alberth> not to mention people spamming our tracker with geature requests :)
20:02:15 <OpenTTDfan> so my idea of making a taxi car service in the game its far fetched?
20:02:46 <planetmaker> get the towncars grf and use it
20:02:49 <Alberth> well, it's a new one, I'll give you that :)
20:03:09 <planetmaker> capacity typically 1 passenger or so ;-)
20:03:29 <Alberth> you could make 'buses' in the shape of a taxi
20:03:33 <planetmaker> you even have an AI which will spam towns with those vehicles, if you like. TowncarsAI
20:03:38 <OpenTTDfan> hmmm so it actually exists? gotta check that
20:04:30 <Alberth> their goal is more to have traffic in the streets
20:05:15 <Alberth> but a NewGRF that defines a bus that looks like a taxi is quite feasible
20:05:38 <OpenTTDfan> but it should be a little different
20:05:49 <planetmaker> then write the matching newgrf and / or AI
20:05:58 <planetmaker> nothing which core openttd needs to worry about ;-)
20:06:31 <OpenTTDfan> like..the taxi should just wonder around cities and take passengers from everywhere...but i guess coding that its just too insane
20:06:58 <Alberth> yeah, but it feels wrong to me
20:07:42 <Alberth> OpenTTD is mostly about mass transport between cities, a taxi does not nicely fit in there
20:07:51 <OpenTTDfan> cant code the taxi to randomly take passengers from cities and randomly taking them different distances?
20:08:26 <opa> taxi expands the radius of an airport within a city
20:08:27 <Alberth> 'take passengers'? from where?
20:08:28 <OpenTTDfan> transport tycoon....my own taxi company :P
20:08:47 <OpenTTDfan> from anywhere..just like a taxy
20:08:49 <Alberth> it is more simcity-ish w.r.t. scale
20:09:31 <Alberth> yeah, you are not running a transport company there
20:10:00 <OpenTTDfan> oh cmoon a taxi co is not a transport company?
20:10:25 <Alberth> sure it is, "there" was in sim-city
20:10:47 <OpenTTDfan> i have no ideea gow the coding is made or if this could be possible...
20:11:02 <OpenTTDfan> stop comparing it to som man lol:))
20:11:20 <Alberth> quite non-trivial in coding
20:11:33 <Alberth> all transport runs through stations
20:12:03 <OpenTTDfan> i see there are baloon GRFs going 25kmph...
20:12:12 <OpenTTDfan> well...thats NOT transpor
20:12:28 <Alberth> so "random pickup" is a whole new ball game, and not compatible with existing (house) newgrfs
20:13:06 <OpenTTDfan> cant the code be fooled the whole city is a station?
20:13:50 <OpenTTDfan> not throwing stones here just ideas
20:14:17 <planetmaker> what's the point of random pickup and drop?
20:14:19 <Alberth> so you just add a station near the edge, and you have coverage over the entire city? nice
20:14:56 <planetmaker> create some roadside stops and use orders to go to different stations depending on usage
20:15:02 <OpenTTDfan> yea you could add a taxi station....where taxi goes (maybe) when out of orders
20:15:21 <Alberth> and stations by 2 or more players in the same city become one? WOW IS for free :D
20:16:14 <OpenTTDfan> each player has its own taxies
20:16:34 <Alberth> you just claimed the entire city was one station
20:16:54 <Alberth> and I am showing you consequences of that :)
20:17:19 <OpenTTDfan> no...thinking of coding it as it would be....so the taxi could get passengers froem antwhere
20:18:01 <Alberth> as I said quite non-trivial
20:19:39 <OpenTTDfan> the idea is to have taxi cars making deliveries throughout the cities, not necessarily in stations...going randomly wherever street is
20:20:29 <OpenTTDfan> but i guess coding that its probably impossible
20:20:51 <Alberth> nothing is impossible, it just takes you a few years
20:21:27 <OpenTTDfan> its a transport games, and seeing there are balloons ingame....was thinking that taxi is necessarily
20:22:02 <Alberth> balloons do start from airports, so behave as 'normal' planes
20:22:16 <Alberth> they do not try to do new things
20:22:45 <Alberth> a bus that looks like a taxi is *very* doable.
20:22:51 <OpenTTDfan> trams was a nice idea, just discovered those
20:23:08 <Alberth> you can also change the drive-through bus stop sprites
20:23:39 <Alberth> if you want fundamental changes in the game, it is going to take a LOT of time
20:23:57 <OpenTTDfan> is it possible to make a bus go all over and stop in random places? thats a taxi pretty much
20:24:00 <Alberth> and for a small feature like taxies in a city, tmwftlb imho
20:24:15 <SpComb> busses without orders work fine for non-cargodist games
20:24:29 <SpComb> can even make a profit, sometimes
20:26:16 <OpenTTDfan> I know making a bus look like a taxi is somehow easy....but it shouldn't stop in stations only
20:26:31 <SpComb> what's the benefit of having taxis?
20:26:40 <SpComb> as in, what problem in the game would they solve?
20:27:24 <OpenTTDfan> not a problem, but a real transport offer..like in real life
20:27:55 <Alberth> what's the game profit from it?
20:28:20 <SpComb> OpenTTD isn't all that close to real life
20:28:27 <OpenTTDfan> you mean cash revenue?
20:28:31 <SpComb> it would get in the way of it being fun :)
20:28:32 <Alberth> ie starting a number of taxies and letting them run all by themselves is not very useful from a gaming point of view
20:28:55 <OpenTTDfan> lol you invented trams so i guess the game tries to follow life...
20:29:01 <SpComb> and taxis are probably too low-volume to work in OpenTTD's macro world
20:29:23 <Alberth> ie trains are fun because you spend ages on getting the tracks and the cargo transport right
20:29:40 <OpenTTDfan> i know thats why Im playing it :D
20:29:44 <SpComb> and trunk doesn't have cargodist, so intra-town feeder services only work for town growth, anyways
20:29:53 <Alberth> so what's the fun in taxies?
20:30:06 <Alberth> you cannot do anything with them
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20:30:28 <Alberth> ie game extensions are fun-driven, not real-life driven
20:31:21 <Alberth> don't get me wrong, I think making a taxi NewGRF is fun to do, and fun to run a few times
20:31:28 <Alberth> but as core game feature?
20:32:43 <OpenTTDfan> oook....what if you can give it paths to follow...like when you assign a taxi to follow some paths and you name the paths....throughout the citie ans other citeies as well...wherever street exist...
20:35:59 <OpenTTDfan> you're probably right taxi is not worth it
20:36:33 <OpenTTDfan> but the games has all the transport possibilities except this
20:36:44 <SpComb> it doesn't have walking either :)
20:36:54 <SpComb> imagine that, cargo transporting itself without your getting paid!
20:37:05 <OpenTTDfan> bicycling neither lol
20:38:39 <OpenTTDfan> no matter the game is fun as it is anyway
20:39:13 <Alberth> not really, I almost never play it :)
20:39:30 <OpenTTDfan> you are probably sick of it
20:40:12 <OpenTTDfan> when call of dusy is out there...clearly open ttd is losing players lol
20:40:13 <Alberth> I have no nice build challenges any more
20:40:59 <SpComb> Alberth: tried cargod[ie]st? :)
20:41:24 <OpenTTDfan> how about bridges and tunnels on the diagonal?
20:41:33 <Alberth> dest worked fine, but it stopped. yacd never worked nicely for me
20:42:45 <planetmaker> yacd worked for me... it was actually fun and would be even more fun now with autorefit :-)
20:43:10 <Alberth> played dist one time, and had trouble with connections dropping due to low volume
20:43:43 <opa> byw how does coding games differ from coding customized business solutions?
20:43:58 <opa> from developers point of view
20:44:09 <planetmaker> with dist I had some issues wrt load balance and destinations of cargo
20:44:13 <Alberth> opa: I only do fun things in OpenTTD
20:44:56 <Alberth> where my notion of fun is probably hugely different from yours :p
20:45:41 <Alberth> I found yacd very hard to get off the ground, with pax it is pretty much impossible
20:45:43 <OpenTTDfan> i guess optimizing is the name of the fun
20:46:00 <Alberth> OpenTTDfan: nope, refactoring is
20:46:16 <OpenTTDfan> hmmm and how is that?
20:46:42 <OpenTTDfan> nothing on wiki lol
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20:48:49 <Alberth> not that scared hopefully :)
20:48:50 <OpenTTDfan> oh i see....a whole new level of palying open ttd lol
20:50:36 <Alberth> oh, playing openttd you mean. Right :) I make random unplanned connections, and extend the network. Since I don't make plans, stuff tends to get jammed, so I must re-organize tracks and junctions frequently
20:51:00 <Alberth> and I play with breakdowns and freight-multiplier at 5 or 6
20:51:32 <Alberth> and no landscaping if possible
20:51:55 <SpComb> uh, breakdowns is just masochistic
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20:53:15 <Alberth> SpComb if you pick high reliability engines, breakdowns are not a problem
20:54:49 <Alberth> basically, you need to start building extra tracks sooner, as you cannot pack trains together, since a breakdown disrupts everything then
20:59:47 <planetmaker> Alberth: for that screenshot I know shorter tracks given the shown trainlength ;-)
21:01:19 <Alberth> yeah, but it looks so nice ;)
21:02:07 <Alberth> and this does work better than straight up the hill
21:06:11 <planetmaker> ofc, I don't mean straight up the hill. But if you go with the uphill track further left and then diagonal, you could avoid the one complete turn
21:16:35 <Alberth> oh, yeah. There used to be other tracks there :)
21:21:40 <OpenTTDfan> arent you watching the final :) ?
21:24:31 <OpenTTDfan> bayern gonna win it :P
21:25:05 <planetmaker> they kinda deserve it ;-)
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21:45:55 <FLHerne> Indeed. Didn't deserve it though :-(
21:46:19 <planetmaker> they should have lost 3:1...
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22:09:53 <Eddi|zuHause> the bayern triple! :)
22:10:27 <Eddi|zuHause> lost in the Bundesliga, lost in the Pokal, and lost in the champions league :)
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