IRC logs for #openttd on OFTC at 2012-05-16
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07:31:02 <dihedral> nice to 'see' you (online) :-)
07:31:18 <Zuu> unfortunately I'm going offline soon again
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13:32:53 <Rosuav> Building OpenTTD from source has been the easiest build _ever_ for me
13:33:45 <Rosuav> I cloned the git repo, ran down the list of libraries and installed what I needed, ran make, and it worked straight off.
13:43:24 <Eddi|zuHause> that is nice to hear :)
13:45:26 <Rosuav> Didn't really know who to thank for that, so I downloaded mirc and came here, heh
13:45:51 <Rosuav> I've no idea why, in this day and age, you use Subversion.
13:46:00 <Rosuav> But other than that, easy and well documented.
13:46:11 <Eddi|zuHause> we have git and hg mirrors
13:46:45 <Eddi|zuHause> svn is used for easier bookkeping of a linear versioning
13:47:32 <Rosuav> yeah, I used git for my download, because I love git. We use it at work and maintain linear versioning still. Anyway, not a big deal.
13:49:03 <Eddi|zuHause> with git and hg, detecting modified versions is troublesome
13:50:10 <Eddi|zuHause> anyway, the system works pretty well, so there's no reason to change
13:58:28 <Rosuav> Yeah, that's probably the strongest reason
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14:22:13 <planetmaker> yes that, and what eddi said about modification detection
14:23:07 <planetmaker> svn revs are universal. hg or git numerical revs are not universal
14:23:26 <planetmaker> only their hashes. And they're... not nice to read or decide which came first
14:23:43 <planetmaker> that said, many of us devs use hg or git for development, too
14:25:00 <planetmaker> and nice to hear that it worked that flawlessly for you :-)
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16:50:19 <hackalittlebit> frosch123: can I talk about fs5147?
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16:54:11 <frosch123> hackalittlebit: i am available this evening
16:54:21 <frosch123> not over the weekend though
16:54:58 <hackalittlebit> ok I'll come back, seeyou
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16:55:40 <frosch123> err, does he now try the weekend?
16:58:09 <Alberth> I would not be surprised
16:58:24 <Alberth> perhaps send him a PM ?
17:01:32 <frosch123> hmm, oh, maybe he is in some more western timezone
17:02:08 <andythenorth> the part of BANDIT that provides truck code needs to be a python module
17:02:12 <andythenorth> then I can reuse it in HEQS
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17:12:33 <Eddi|zuHause> he should better not try tomorrow :P
17:20:01 * NGC3982 is still in the office.
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17:46:04 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: translators * r24255 /trunk/src/lang/ (10 files): (log message trimmed)
17:46:04 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: -Update from WebTranslator v3.0:
17:46:04 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: belarusian - 17 changes by Wowanxm
17:46:04 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: catalan - 4 changes by mtormo
17:46:04 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: croatian - 84 changes by VoyagerOne
17:46:06 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: czech - 2 changes by TheLamer
17:46:06 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: dutch - 31 changes by habell, mazele
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18:30:54 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: rubidium * r24256 /trunk/src/lang/belarusian.txt: -Fix: results of WT3 validation issue
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18:44:01 <Rubidium> yeah, where are the mass spammers when you need them? ;)
18:44:09 <Rubidium> or is everyone on holiday?
18:49:48 <andythenorth> you can spam from the beach
19:09:13 <Chrill> Ohai. So I was wondering about the old Africa map that used to come included in old releases of OpenTTD
19:09:24 <Chrill> With a new computer, I no longer have it. Anyone know where I can find a link to download it?
19:09:33 <Chrill> The forums turned out no good results
19:09:54 <Chrill> I guess whoever created it had left the scene before bananas was introduced
19:10:10 <Alberth> I don't think it was part of OpenTTD, but perhaps original TTD ?
19:10:24 <Chrill> oh no I'm positive it came included with OpenTTD itself
19:10:37 <Chrill> with 0.5.x series or similar
19:14:05 <Chrill> ah I was hoping there would be something like it, thanks :)
19:19:04 <andythenorth> BANDIT is stucked
19:20:22 <andythenorth> those things yes
19:22:00 <Chrill> oh I finally found it :)
19:22:06 <Chrill> Thanks for the help, Rubidium
19:23:58 <Chrill> heh, a massive 16 scenarios were used in 0.4.x, why did OTTD stop including scenarios?
19:24:25 <Rubidium> because it messed with the compile farm
19:26:54 <frosch123> and we have an online content archive now
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19:34:37 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: rubidium * r24257 /trunk/ (4 files in 3 dirs): -Fix [FS#5112]: update some outdated documentation and make is somewhat more consistent
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19:50:52 <Jonnty> what does dbg: [net] getaddrinfo for hostname "", port 0, address family either IPv4 or IPv6 and socket type udp failed: Address family for hostname not supported usually mean? I ask cos i'm getting really stuttery multiplayer with a patch and it's the only thing i can see that correlates (roughly) with it
19:52:03 <krinn> Jonnty, i'm not sure but if you get an ip "" (null) then it looks logic to see a message telling you "null" is not a valid IPv4 or IPv6 address no?
19:52:09 <Eddi|zuHause> Jonnty: it usually means that the game tried to get a lookup for an ipv6, but that was not supported by your os. it should not cause your problem though
19:52:39 <krinn> hey Zuu seen the update scp wiki page, i like it a lot !
19:53:04 <Zuu> And I stil got to answer your last pm on the forums.
19:53:24 <Jonnty> ahh right Eddi|zuHause. yeah i figured it wouldn't be the problem though. oh well :(
19:53:32 <krinn> as i said, i really don't see any solve to that
19:53:45 <Jonnty> oh wait I had an IPv? server which wasn't working and i deleted it and it seems to be running fine now! thanks :)
19:55:31 <Zuu> For callbacs. you could do SCPLib.RegisterCommand("command", "cmd set", SomeClass.SomeFunc, this), if RegisterCommand is called from an instance of SomeClass.
19:56:03 <Zuu> Store SomeClass.SomeFunc along with this and use that when calling the callback
19:56:08 <krinn> except we have no proof "this" will be it
19:56:36 <Zuu> that is true, but as far as I know that could also happen with eg. sigc++ and boost::signals.
19:57:10 <Zuu> That is something we could trust the user to pass the correct instance I think.
19:57:35 <krinn> as it pass an instance, he could even not pass the "this" but any instance :/
19:57:38 <Zuu> The instance parameter could default to null and in that case, use the current callback behaviour.
19:58:13 <Zuu> krinn: yes, but that is no worse than one could shoot oneself in the foot with pointers in general.
19:58:52 <krinn> Zuu, lol i suppose, just hope squirrel memory is really protect then
20:00:10 <krinn> and we return the context as first or second parameter ?
20:00:37 <krinn> i've tried setting the context direclty, but i couldn't (ottd kick me with the docommand error when trying that)
20:00:59 <krinn> func (message, context) ?
20:01:31 <Zuu> Indeed, and that is not allowed to be called in contexts where DoCommands are forbidden. Eg. in the result of a valuator.
20:02:00 <krinn> yes, except i get it outside a valuator command
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20:02:09 <krinn> but inside the constructor part
20:02:27 <krinn> anyway, we cannot set the context ourself when calling the function, but still giving the context to the user is doable
20:02:28 <Zuu> constructors are probably also protected.
20:02:33 <Zuu> I read something before about acall being restricted.
20:02:42 <krinn> so it could do context.thisvar to find its thisvar value
20:02:48 <Zuu> Passing the context as parameter is fine.
20:03:08 <krinn> i love when you speak about a one line fix !
20:03:31 <Zuu> Though, maybe there is a shorter name for it. Though that is up to the author to decide as naming of parameters is not enforced by squrrel.
20:04:02 <krinn> yep just like message he could name it as he wish
20:04:33 <Zuu> Maybe use 'instance' instead of 'context'. Its actually not shorter but explains to me better what it is.
20:04:58 <krinn> ok i have fisrt use INSTANCE when creating the global one :P
20:04:59 <Zuu> Or 'self' to lend the name of 'this' from Delphi :-)
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20:11:10 <frosch123> anyone in here occasonaly uses oilrigs in multiplayer?
20:11:22 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: rubidium * r24258 /branches/1.2/ (15 files in 7 dirs): [1.2] -Update: some documentation
20:12:45 <frosch123> a) it should only show the ships of the own company
20:12:56 <frosch123> b) the window titlebar shall be neutral grey
20:13:04 <Rubidium> d) transfers are messed up royally
20:13:26 <frosch123> that's not what i wanted to know :p
20:14:22 <frosch123> i think grey makes most sense
20:14:27 <Zuu> frosch123: I'd say, show it grey as emphatize on the fact that it is a shared station.
20:14:55 <frosch123> yeah, it's also consistent with the other changes i made
20:16:46 <Rubidium> frosch123: you made one mistake with that image
20:16:58 <Rubidium> you didn't change the ship livery of blue to red and vice versa
20:17:44 <Rubidium> or only from blue to red. Then you'd have two red ships with vehicle number 1; that might spike some issues
20:18:19 <Rubidium> unless one adds some blob indicating which company a vehicle is of to all vehicle lists
20:18:40 <NGC3982> from the russian elektro-l no.1 weather satellite
20:18:51 <frosch123> Rubidium: why should i change the livery?
20:18:58 <frosch123> it's about the vehicles using the station
20:19:30 <Rubidium> frosch123: for confusionism
20:20:21 <krinn> i agree, would be easier to "thatcompany" profit this year: blabhah (last year: blahb)
20:21:21 <frosch123> Rubidium: so, you only want to display the stuff from the own company?
20:21:27 <krinn> and the "manage list" looks bad, it should be "manage yours" or something, as you logically cannot manage that list
20:21:40 <Chris_Booth> is it possible to use an oilrig as a transfer, so I can give cargo to another company?
20:22:08 <Rubidium> Chris_Booth: with emphasis on the *give*
20:22:21 <Rubidium> Chris_Booth: though it'd be better phrased as *donate*
20:22:28 * krinn is going to build the OilAI that would love playing with Chris_Booth
20:22:29 <Eddi|zuHause> Rubidium: you can already disable liveries for opponents
20:22:34 <Chris_Booth> yes you do not get pais
20:22:53 <Eddi|zuHause> Rubidium: then it always shows in the primary company colour
20:22:55 <Chris_Booth> I was thinking I could send my supplies there
20:23:16 <Rubidium> Eddi|zuHause: I red, you blue, I blue ship livery
20:23:35 <Eddi|zuHause> Rubidium: your own fault :)
20:23:37 <Rubidium> frosch123: I'm kinda in dubio
20:24:15 <krinn> or change icon in front of vehicle to a big red X for not your own vehicle
20:24:17 <Rubidium> not showing all vehicles stopping somewhere is bad, but having duplicate vehicle numbers might be equally bad
20:26:27 <krinn> and maybe the profit of vehicle shouldn't be output, else you must also gave that list to AI (fairplaying hu!), then AI would be able to battle for oilrig hard :)
20:28:02 <Eddi|zuHause> Rubidium: make the vehicle number company coloured?
20:29:00 <krinn> Zuu, update, you can test with the self context pass to the callback
20:29:36 <Zuu> I need to adress some issues related to a running competition at the moment, but will check it out later.
20:31:03 <krinn> Zuu maybe it's time for forum post no? we need more tester imo
20:32:04 <frosch123> Eddi|zuHause: the vehicle number already shows when a vehicle is old
20:32:15 <Eddi|zuHause> frosch123: i know.
20:32:27 <Eddi|zuHause> frosch123: or whether it's in depot
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20:54:20 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: rubidium * r24259 /tags/1.2.1-RC1/ (. src/os/windows/ottdres.rc.in src/rev.cpp.in): -Release: 1.2.1-RC1
20:55:28 <FLHerne> So what's new in 1.2.1?
20:55:44 <frosch123> we merged simutrans
20:57:24 <FLHerne> frosch123: That would be good :P
20:57:41 <FLHerne> Lots of cool features in Simutrans :D
20:58:04 <frosch123> we combined the drawbacks of ottd and simutrans
20:59:47 <FLHerne> frosch123: That would be bad :P
20:59:58 <FLHerne> Lots of cool bugs in Simutrans :D
21:00:30 <frosch123> don't worry, we'll surely add the bugs of ttdp in 1.2.2
21:00:57 <Rubidium> just read the changelog. It's there for a reason
21:02:55 <FLHerne> I'll probably just play it :-)#
21:10:06 <Eddi|zuHause> you likely won't notice any differences while playing
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21:20:30 <FLHerne> In 6 months I'll suddenly think 'oh, never knew that was there - wonder when that came in' though :P
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21:40:13 <hackalittlebit> frosch123: did you have a look? :) fs5147
21:41:34 <frosch123> are you ny timezone btw?
21:41:58 <hackalittlebit> greenwich meantime
21:42:43 <frosch123> you confused me earlier when you left and it was already evening for me :p
21:43:09 <Rubidium> then you're not in GMT
21:43:43 <frosch123> anyway, about fs#5147: "play scenario" is quite hidden
21:43:49 <frosch123> i would not search it under "load game"
21:44:29 <hackalittlebit> I saw it, I would like to combine difficulty setting with game settings
21:44:46 <hackalittlebit> I mean all settings together
21:45:05 <hackalittlebit> even transparity
21:45:32 <frosch123> transparency is a toolbar currently, which seems more suitable for me
21:45:59 <frosch123> i would think we should approach this more slowly
21:46:31 <frosch123> first difficulty settings. i think we can remove the window completely by removing everything that is in worldgen or ai settings, and move the rest to adv. settings
21:46:48 <frosch123> next could be the music settings or newspaper settings
21:47:15 <frosch123> music settings could turn into sound settings and also take the basesound and basemusic stuff from game options
21:47:47 <frosch123> that would basically leave the current game settings as some kind of video and localisation settings
21:48:26 <frosch123> well, and then i am afraid to think any further :p
21:50:07 <Rubidium> only those sound settings would be available from in game, but you can't change the sound set there
21:53:50 <hackalittlebit> rubidium: is it difficult to find out what settiings you can change in-game , global, only before creating new game?
21:54:18 <hackalittlebit> maybe try to split them up like that
21:54:57 <Rubidium> only caveat is that the set differs between normal games and MP games
21:55:24 <hackalittlebit> auch even more :(
21:55:35 <Rubidium> even then, almost all settings can be set from the main menu
21:55:45 <Rubidium> except video/music/sound driver and a few like that
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21:56:28 <Rubidium> also the set of settings that you can change differs between being the network server and client
21:56:39 <Rubidium> and/or being spectator
21:58:05 <hackalittlebit> so maybe the best road is a very gradual change
21:58:26 <hackalittlebit> absolutely not radical
22:00:46 <frosch123> @topic set 1 1.2.0, 1.2.1-RC1
22:00:46 *** DorpsGek changes topic to "1.2.0, 1.2.1-RC1 | Website: *.openttd.org (translator: translator, server list: servers, wiki: wiki, patches & bug-reports: bugs, revision log: vcs, release info: finger) | Don't ask to ask, just ask | 'Latest' is not a valid version, ever | English only"
22:02:03 <hackalittlebit> frosch123: play scenario could be visible if there would be only one button to change settings
22:02:30 <frosch123> you could also readd content download :p
22:03:10 <frosch123> anyway, the number of settings windows is quite unknown at the moment
22:03:24 <frosch123> so, maybe the intro screen should be postponed a bit
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22:04:53 <frosch123> while putting everything into a single settings windows might sound clean, it would be quite hard for the novice user to just change the language
22:05:56 <frosch123> so, for a start we could just go for the difficulty and news settings windows
22:06:10 <frosch123> i am quite confident that we can remove them completely
22:06:24 <frosch123> by moving everything to adv. settings which is not alread yin some other settings window
22:06:40 <frosch123> we just need an excuse to trash the highscore :p
22:08:34 <hackalittlebit> 2 less is allready great:)
22:08:46 <Zuu> Or add highscore recording to NoGo. :-)
22:08:48 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: frosch * r24260 /trunk/src/ (station_gui.cpp vehicle_gui.cpp vehiclelist.cpp): -Change [FS#5126]: Make the oilrig-vehicle list accessible to specators and colour it's caption neutrally grey.
22:09:14 <frosch123> Zuu: currently we have 4 high score lists for the four difficulty levels
22:09:50 <frosch123> but since the difficulty levels make absolutely no sense, the highscore lists are also quite useless
22:09:59 <Zuu> Yes its an insane idea as there will end up one high score list for each nogo script and really for each parameter set of nogo.
22:10:08 <frosch123> we could merge them into a single one, i.e. the "custom" one
22:10:18 <frosch123> but, we would still have to find a place to view it
22:10:40 <hackalittlebit> can it be outside the game?
22:10:59 <frosch123> nogo can communicate with external stuff, e.g. some database
22:11:06 <frosch123> but i am not aware of anyone doing that :)
22:11:20 <frosch123> the goal servers do something like that, but i doubt they use nogo
22:12:00 <Zuu> nogo can communicate with external stuff through the admin port when run on a MP server. And in that case it is up to the server owner to track the highscore and publish it on a web-server.
22:12:37 <frosch123> well, i think the highscore only applies to singleplayer, doesn't it?
22:12:55 <frosch123> or is mp interrupted in 2050 to display the highscore screen? :p
22:16:03 <hackalittlebit> together with other stats
22:16:22 <Zuu> Isn't it better to have highscore in the main menu?
22:16:39 <hackalittlebit> you mean start up?
22:16:42 <Zuu> Its only recorded when you reach 2050 in a game.
22:17:19 <Zuu> Eg, its not continues through a game. (though I beleive it is the company performance measure that is the basis for high score)
22:18:59 <frosch123> hackalittlebit: in game i could imagine it in the company league table or in the detailed performance rating
22:19:06 <frosch123> the graphs feel quite unrelated
22:19:22 <frosch123> not sure whether we need it in the main screen
22:19:30 <frosch123> it's so damn unimportant :)
22:19:53 <hackalittlebit> So but it on startup screen.
22:20:14 <hackalittlebit> under the climate change buttons
22:20:41 <hackalittlebit> devides the screen in two
22:20:42 <frosch123> currently i think just putting it into the company league table is enough
22:20:53 <Zuu> frosch123: Yes for advanced players its unimportant and when you start to fiddle with settings it makes the high score uncomparable. However, for novice players it might be an interesting goal trying to beat the high score.
22:20:53 <frosch123> i don't think it needs to be accessible from the main screen
22:21:16 <frosch123> Zuu: we have no prerecorded highscores :p
22:21:28 <frosch123> it's only against yourself
22:21:44 <hackalittlebit> I never looked at it:)
22:21:52 <frosch123> i remember some game which had prerecorded highscores with random names attached to them
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22:22:02 <Zuu> That would be something, recorded high scores downloadable via bananas :-)
22:22:50 <frosch123> the highest highscore had the name of the developer, and the game was designed in a way that it ran faster the more close you came to that highscore.
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22:23:19 <frosch123> (it was a tetris-like game where you loose when stuff gets too fast for you)
22:23:52 <frosch123> so, effectively you could never beat the original developer
22:23:58 <frosch123> (except with a hexeditor :p )
22:24:55 <Zuu> So some daylength patch should be changed so that the daylength is shortened as you reach the top highscore recorded by some OpenTTD developer :-)
22:25:06 <frosch123> anyway, i think currently the highscores are quite hidden - i think it took me years to notice the button in the difficulty settings - and the company league table is a more intuitive place for it
22:25:22 <hackalittlebit> company league table, sounds fine to me
22:26:28 <hackalittlebit> frosch123: Didn't want to say it , but it took me till last week to see that button.
22:26:58 <frosch123> hackalittlebit: does not surprise me :p i think noone notices it
22:27:08 <Zuu> I didn't know about it untill now that you can view it from the difficulty window.
22:27:52 <Zuu> I have maybe seen it before. But its not something that I remember that you should go there to see the high score.
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22:41:04 <hackalittlebit> did you see :)
22:41:18 <frosch123> i would have named it "random map" just as well, instead of "manual"
22:41:29 <frosch123> but yes, that window makes sense
22:42:33 <hackalittlebit> If you say random map, It should enter SE and do that. No more fiddeling with buttons
22:43:07 <hackalittlebit> Manual , you get normal option screen
22:44:23 <hackalittlebit> maybe ,'manual creatiion'
22:45:20 <hackalittlebit> ok , I like that
22:47:22 <hackalittlebit> 'Load Heightmap' should be 'Create from Heightmap?
22:47:48 <frosch123> no idea, both works for me
22:48:03 <frosch123> load heightmap fits more with load scenario
22:48:15 <frosch123> and technically you can also save your scenarios as heightmap
22:48:30 <frosch123> so, it is not necessarily a "create", but could also be an "edit"
22:50:24 <frosch123> i am going to sleep
22:50:53 <hackalittlebit> But the logical flow is ok no?,I mean when you want to create Scenario, you should have immediately have those options presented.
23:00:52 *** hackalittlebit has quit IRC
23:13:39 *** ayr-andy has joined #openttd
23:14:33 <ayr-andy> hey guys, I have a map that I would like to run on my server but there is a version conflict, is there a way around that?
23:19:11 <Zuu> If map version is > server version, upgrade the server.
23:19:43 <Zuu> If one of the server or the map is a patched version things get more complicated
23:21:11 <Zuu> If map is from a patched version, you need get a patched server using exactly the same patch.
23:36:49 <Joel> how do I clear a group of trees?
23:37:09 <Joel> bulldozer and the bomb don't work..
23:37:46 <Joel> googled the shit out of it and cant' find anythign
23:39:05 <Eddi|zuHause> you can destroy trees, but not forests
23:39:27 <Eddi|zuHause> forests are industries that produce wood
23:39:46 <Eddi|zuHause> and you cannot destroy industries
23:39:53 <Eddi|zuHause> (unless you cheat)
23:42:16 <ayr-andy> version issue seems to be fixed for the new 1.2
continue to next day ⏵
