IRC logs for #openttd on OFTC at 2012-03-16
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01:02:58 <Maoman> Hey everyone. I'm new to the forums with a question about train efficiency. I actually posted a topic on the forums, but I didn't notice the chat function until after I posted it.
01:03:33 <Maoman> Hopefully everyone isn't just afk. :/
01:07:26 <Maoman> I've been browsing the wiki (mainly) and a bit on the forums to try and find a list of different ways to merge multiple train lines together, like the lists for stations (http://wiki.openttd.org/Railway_Stations) and junctions (which is spread over multiple pages). Unfortunately, I can't seem to find any. Out of room...
01:07:42 <Maoman> Before I continue, i'll ask: IS there such a list of ways to merge multiple lines efficiently?
01:10:50 <Maoman> >:I Hit the wrong damn key and refreshed the page. Can I have that link again? Sorry.
01:12:18 <Maoman> Thanks, I'll look around there for a bit
01:13:48 <planetmaker> you also may find interesting to look at some of the savegames in the public server archive found on that page
01:17:38 <Maoman> Alrighty. My main issue right now is trying to get multiple lanes (six or so), each with 2 or 3 trains each (starting small) to go smoothly into a hub station, so i don't need dedicated stations for each and every line, at the hub (six trains, six stations, etc?)
01:21:00 <Maoman> :/ All these merges are wayyy bigger than anything I can do, yet. As such, the screenshots make little sense to me.
01:21:58 <planetmaker> the get some games form the public server archive. Have a look at them. Play around with the designs
01:22:09 <planetmaker> join servers. play. Look how others do stuff
01:22:32 <planetmaker> I'm biased, but I'll recommend the #openttdcoop welcome server
01:23:01 <Maoman> I haven't tried any kind of multiplayer. Tycoon games have always been a single player thing to me, so when I heard about multiplayer in openttd, it kinda put me off. lol
01:23:34 <planetmaker> well. That's where the _coop_ part can come in :-P
01:24:02 <Maoman> True. Thanks for your help
01:29:23 <Ricaz> It feels like - in a 'competitive' game - that the first company to establish tons of airports is the one to quickly take a massive lead.
01:29:35 <Ricaz> (I only just started playing this game today)
01:35:05 <planetmaker> unless planes are forbidden, limited, not yet available or prohibitively expensive
01:36:12 <Ricaz> We've been running for about 30 years soon, and my company has an income of about $10.000.000 because of planes ._.
01:38:53 <planetmaker> oh, and depends on the aircraft newgrf used (if any)
01:39:07 <planetmaker> and airport newgrf (if any)
01:39:19 <planetmaker> and the infrastructure maintenance costs for airports (if any)
01:39:23 <Maoman> lol make a couple air ports and send a train all the way across the map, and you're gold.
01:39:34 <planetmaker> thus: complain to your host, Ricaz
01:39:49 <planetmaker> Maoman: yes. usually
01:40:33 <Pikka> it's also about town growth, but I usually get ignored or shushed when I say that :)
01:42:08 <planetmaker> a night with little sleep it seems ;-)
01:43:32 <planetmaker> my clock tells me it's about 2:43
01:43:56 <planetmaker> maybe even a swatch
01:45:07 <Maoman> People never seem to know about the Swatch's Croatian brother
01:45:18 <planetmaker> oh, I fear I have a gap in my education there
01:47:21 <planetmaker> but I see you enjoy excitement journeys through the English language "varieties" ;-)
02:06:53 <Maoman> After trying several saves that all told me they wouldn't work, for various reasons, I found one that loaded, but the trains never move, they just stay in the same spot, reversing direction rapidly.
02:13:10 <Maoman> Any newer ones tell me files are missing, and online content can't seem to find the files
02:26:29 <planetmaker> hm, not all files are in the online content, indeed
02:27:41 <planetmaker> but which of the games do you mean (they all have a direct link)
02:32:26 <Maoman> I figured saying "number 10" was enough. lol
02:33:34 <Maoman> And I had already tried installing that file you linked to. It doesn't seem to make a difference, but then, I wouldn't be surprised if I'm doing something wrong. Took me like half an hour to figure out how to install the 32bpp mod.
02:45:35 <planetmaker> well. The 32bpp (as in 1.1.x) is also ... not user friendly. That zip file just needs unpacking. in the data folder of openttd. that's all
02:50:48 <Maoman> That's what I did, and It didn't seem to help. :s
02:59:12 <planetmaker> I really suggest to rather use the newer saves...
02:59:36 <planetmaker> and there seem to be jams in some
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10:32:24 <Carlos> hi, does anyone know if chill's patch pack will be made ready for r24xxx ?
10:32:42 <Carlos> the most recent version seems to be for r22555 or something
10:42:39 <Pikka> I imagine it will be updated at some point, Carlos
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10:46:37 <Carlos> thanks, would be nice to have the full pack ready again
10:47:14 <Eddi|zuHause> i imagine it either gets updated or dies in the next few months
10:49:18 <Carlos> cargodist and the current trunk might be running away faster than the patchpack can keep up, right ?
10:49:28 <MNIM> the latter would be really sad.
10:50:18 <Ammler> cargodist? is that sill maintained?
10:50:41 <Eddi|zuHause> my estimate is that, if Chill has enough time on its hand, he will throw everything away, and start over with a new set of patches
10:50:47 <Carlos> i tried to apply it to a r24xxx but there where a lot of failed hunks, including completely missing or redundant source files
10:50:54 <Eddi|zuHause> yes, cargodist is still actively developed
10:51:13 <Ammler> so it "survived" yacd :-)
10:51:15 <Carlos> cargodist is the most important piece of the pack anyway, imo
10:51:34 <Carlos> is there a big difference between cargodist and yacd ?
10:52:54 <Pikka> stables are for horses, I say
10:53:17 <Carlos> ah I just read it, yacd is for cargo with specific destinations
10:53:18 <Ammler> but the gameplay difference was that yacd was indpendent from network
10:53:23 <Eddi|zuHause> each one has its own shortcomings. they had fundamental design differences
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10:59:06 <Carlos> need to go, thanks for the info
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11:46:33 <fonsinchen> Yes, I'm still working on cargodist.
11:47:15 <fonsinchen> And I think the approach with "offline" calculation of the routing scheme is actually better than YACD's "inline" routing.
11:48:23 <Eddi|zuHause> i do think that a mixture between "industry-based" and "network-based" destinations would be preferable
11:48:42 <fonsinchen> How would you mix those concepts?
11:49:48 <Eddi|zuHause> like YACD did, drop (a part of) the production if the predetermined destination is not connected
11:49:50 <fonsinchen> It's been a while since I wrote anything here, but I was on IRC sometimes.
11:50:18 <Eddi|zuHause> better spend your time developing, not talking on irc :p
11:51:12 <fonsinchen> That wouldn't be a mix, but the "industry-based" approach ...
11:51:18 <Ammler> but he first needs to know in which direction :-P
11:51:30 <fonsinchen> There are a lot of people who like the network-based approach.
11:51:59 <Eddi|zuHause> yes, you make predetermined destinations for 50% of the produced cargo, and network-based for the other 50%
11:52:17 <Eddi|zuHause> not sure if that could ever work in cargodist
11:53:36 <fonsinchen> Well, I could somehow integrate the destination selection of YACD and "reserve" some cargo for predetermined destination. Only if the linkgraph finds that those are connected, the cargo is "unlocked"
11:53:41 <fonsinchen> Would be possible.
11:53:52 <fonsinchen> However, first I have some other things to do.
11:53:58 <Eddi|zuHause> different topic: one of the biggest criticisms about cargodist i heard was that the "water flowing" approach doesn't have any way to prevent cargo from going in circles
11:54:30 <fonsinchen> Cargo doesn't go in circles. The routing algorithm prevents that.
11:54:32 <Eddi|zuHause> especially in overcrowded networks (which is kinda the default)
11:55:04 <fonsinchen> If you see a circular routing somewhere please send me the save (and hurry up, as the station GUI will crash immediately then).
11:55:31 <Eddi|zuHause> i don't mean the routes, but the individual cargo packets
11:55:37 <fonsinchen> (there is one exception: illogical transfer orders as in my "quiz")
11:55:47 <Eddi|zuHause> assuming you don't store the destination in the packet
11:55:56 <fonsinchen> also the cargopackets cannot go in circles as long as the routes are fairly stable.
11:57:44 <fonsinchen> I don't store the destinations in the packets, but the flow plans are set up in a way that there cannot be any circles.
11:59:26 <fonsinchen> My plan of action at the moment is 1. Support "no loading" and 2. Make linkgraph calculation time depend on the size of the component and the accuracy being requested.
11:59:52 <fonsinchen> With 2. I'll considerably shorten the delay between changes in the game and changes in the routing scheme.
12:00:09 <fonsinchen> However those things will keep me busy for some months.
12:00:35 <Eddi|zuHause> just get it to trunk by next christmas :)
12:01:15 <fonsinchen> I actually think the stuff in the stable branch is ready for trunk.
12:01:33 <fonsinchen> Those optimizations can also be implemented later on.
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12:44:33 <Eddi|zuHause> "honey, i shrinked the tender"?
12:45:17 <planetmaker> shrink shrank shrunk ;-)
12:47:02 <Eddi|zuHause> leo also gives "shrunken"
12:47:39 <Eddi|zuHause> "to shrink | shrank/shrunk, shrunk/shrunken |"
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12:48:00 <Pikka> sounds odd to my dialect though
12:48:35 <Scuddles> these are going in pj1k pikka said so
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13:12:30 <Scuddles> hi im scuddles and I have an unhealthy attraction to bubblecars, smoke deflectors, belpaire fireboxes, dual ended single unit locos and 0-8-0T european tank locos and mallets
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13:42:33 <Scuddles> Eddi|zuHause: That is pretty fancy
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15:01:50 <Pikka> cool, can't update UKRS2+ on bananas either. :)
15:04:17 <Scuddles> Pense à ranger tes tripes je passe dans ton dos mais je ne suis pas ta bonne
15:07:33 <planetmaker> na toll. und wenn jetzt jeder irgendwelchen Blödsinn in irgendeiner Sprach brabbelt können wir Babylon Konkurenz machen.
15:07:37 <planetmaker> Thus: English only
15:07:52 * Rhamphoryncus is playing UKRS2 right now :D
15:11:29 <Pikka> there's an update, but not a major one.
15:21:25 <Rhamphoryncus> It's 1834 here ;)
15:22:17 <Pikka> I hope you have inflation turned off
15:22:24 <Scuddles> enjoy quadrapleheaded locos and such, har har
15:23:24 <Rhamphoryncus> Yeah, I did remember this time
15:23:47 <Rhamphoryncus> I'm pondering quadrupleheaded right now.. it would give me more throughput
15:24:29 <Rhamphoryncus> My wee little pax line is very close to saturation. I'm having to tweak signal positions to avoid trains jamming on the hills
15:24:31 <Scuddles> enjoy 12kN cramptons D:
15:24:57 <Scuddles> that happens to me often, especially with breakdowns on and when they break down right before a gradient
15:25:27 <Rhamphoryncus> realistic acceleration has nasty worst-case behaviour there :/
15:25:28 <Scuddles> never building on hills again expecting trains to clear it just because they have inertia
15:28:40 * Rhamphoryncus builds a 4 consist train just to see how it performs.. and on a fluke perfectly fits the stations he's built
15:28:56 <Rhamphoryncus> oh, fits *one* of the stations, heh
15:32:07 * Rhamphoryncus watches it laugh at a puny hill
15:32:25 <Rhamphoryncus> Once again proving: BIGGER. IS. BETTER.
15:34:24 <MNIM> heh. only built one quadrupelheaded once. was 28 long and it had its' own special line.
15:34:25 <Pikka> or at least that more powerful is more powerful
15:36:23 <MNIM> yeah, it was. carried a freight train full of wood.
15:36:45 <Rhamphoryncus> Pikka: power to weight is the same. I'm literally just gluing 4 trains together. The advantage is it averages across hills
15:36:55 <MNIM> yeah. why, too many locs?
15:37:08 <Rhamphoryncus> Rather than 1 in 2 tiles being a hill it's 2 in 8 tiles
15:37:19 <Pikka> well, I initially thought you meant a 28 tile long train
15:37:32 <Pikka> which would be a bit much for 4 planets.
15:37:35 <MNIM> yeah, that's what a meant, 28 tiles
15:38:48 <Eddi|zuHause> was that before openttd's acceleration model got tweaked?
15:39:27 <Pikka> flatland and original acceleration? :)
15:40:38 <MNIM> no, realistic accelleration and four centennials from the 2cc.
15:40:59 <Pikka> well it wasn't quadruple headed planets then. :)
15:41:45 <Eddi|zuHause> i guess MNIM completely ignored the link
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15:42:04 <MNIM> oooh. I thought you meant locs
15:42:24 <MNIM> yeah, no ancient steam locs. :P
15:43:36 <Eddi|zuHause> who built 1A locomotives? around here, early locomotives were either 1A1 or B
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15:55:36 <Rubidium> lovely... pikka's gone again... why does he always leave before I return from work ;)
15:55:48 <Eddi|zuHause> i blame timezones :p
15:56:21 <Eddi|zuHause> i never remember: does summertime make the difference bigger or smaller?
15:56:39 <Rubidium> it increases for us w.r.t. UTC
15:56:52 <Eddi|zuHause> planetmaker had a *wrong language* mode
15:57:22 <Rubidium> but then for them it'd decrease w.r.t UTC as they goto winter time
15:57:34 <Rubidium> so the difference should decrease
15:57:53 <Scuddles> such is how a pikkaman works
15:58:35 <Eddi|zuHause> andythenorth spent too much time around kids lately
15:58:35 <Scuddles> once in a while he stays up until later than this though, if you come around at here often enough you'll probably see him one day
15:58:41 <Rubidium> then pikkaman shouldn't complain that he can't upload UKRS to bananas yet ;)
15:58:56 <Scuddles> such is life in the pikkazone
16:02:00 <planetmaker> Eddi|zuHause, it was a deliberate mode switch
16:07:11 <ffpp> hi, the templatebased train replacement patch is up in a first version
16:07:34 <ffpp> I dug up the old thread about it and realized that I actually forgot about some suggestions made there :>
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16:09:10 <planetmaker> oh, indeed not, Eddi|zuHause . Thx
16:11:29 <__ln__> Eddi|zuHause: a rule for remembering it: both in the spring and autumn, the clocks are adjusted toward the summer.
16:12:00 <Eddi|zuHause> __ln__: that was not what i meant
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16:43:31 <Eddi|zuHause> soo... anybody "excited" about the presidential election?
16:44:47 <Eddi|zuHause> germany pseudo-elects theirs on sunday
16:45:26 <glx> the campaign for ours starts on monday
16:45:31 <Eddi|zuHause> just more than a thousand people eligible to vote
16:45:40 <Eddi|zuHause> and the winner is already predetermined
16:46:50 <Eddi|zuHause> glx: is that the one where the major european leaders have decided to boycott the opposition candidate?
16:47:41 <glx> but recently the other one said something with similar effects :)
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17:40:02 <__ln__> would someone be very upset if shift+mousewheel panned the map, without enabling any settings first?
17:40:46 <Zuu> do you mean shift + third button or shift + scrolling?
17:42:36 <Zuu> To move north/south by spinning the wheel?
17:43:24 <Zuu> That wouldn't upset me as I usually play OpenTTD with a device that doesn't have a scroll wheel. :-)
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17:43:43 <__ln__> and east/west by scrolling horizontally
17:44:27 <Eddi|zuHause> __ln__: better to figure out how to specify that in hotkeys.cfg
17:44:53 <Zuu> Reminds me of my patch to allow zooming in out by holding the middle mouse button and moving the mouse.
17:45:17 <__ln__> Eddi|zuHause: are you saying the user should manually edit a config file in order to pan the map?
17:48:53 <Zuu> For new users the default hotkey.cfg settings could have it enabled.
18:00:39 <__ln__> and for old users not?
18:00:51 <Eddi|zuHause> __ln__: i mean figure out how to query mouse actions as "key", and then allow the user to decide whether he wants to pan the map with scrollwheel, 5-finger-movement, asdw or whatever
18:01:30 <Eddi|zuHause> what to use as default, and how to achieve gui-modification of hotkeys is then a separate discussion
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18:05:20 <__ln__> i can't say that's a bad idea, but adding the one extra layer of abstraction for a feature that nobody actively wants probably means nobody will implement it that way.
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18:42:14 <Ricaz> If coal and a power station can reach eachother, then what?
18:42:46 <Ricaz> how do you transport the coal to the powerstation?
18:43:37 <Alberth> build a station out of reach of the power station
18:44:07 <Alberth> however, you won't make much money, so probably not worth the trouble
18:45:58 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: translators * r24032 /trunk/src/lang/ (4 files in 2 dirs):
18:45:58 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: -Update from WebTranslator v3.0:
18:45:58 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: frisian - 13 changes by Fopper
18:45:58 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: korean - 1 changes by junho2813
18:45:58 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: norwegian_nynorsk - 1 changes by mantaray
18:45:59 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: welsh - 15 changes by kazzie
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19:06:27 <Rhamphoryncus> Ricaz: distances are based on the stations, not the industries
19:07:13 <Ricaz> Ah, you make more money depending on the distance?
19:07:38 <Belugas> the bigger the distance. the more money indeed
19:07:49 <Belugas> up to a certain point
19:08:02 <Rhamphoryncus> It's linear to distance (twice as far gets twice as much), but is reduced by time spent in a more complicated way
19:08:03 <Belugas> speed of delivery is also to be considered
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19:15:58 * andythenorth ponders pondering
19:17:07 * andythenorth ponders the sad death of 8bpp :(
19:19:32 <andythenorth> perhaps reports of its death are exagerated
19:20:02 <V453000> the artists who like pixel art will probably not abandon the "limited" palette so quickly
19:20:27 <V453000> at least for me the point of pixel art is to do wonders with limited possibilities as resolution and colour depth
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19:21:24 <Rhamphoryncus> Yeah, you can do wonders, but I've also come to realize that most of my complaints about graphics can be traced to the 8bit palette
19:21:32 <Alberth> if you do anything tron-like, you don't even need the full 8bpp :)
19:21:46 <andythenorth> yeah, but 32bpp will become de-facto, because it's more realistic
19:22:03 <andythenorth> and many of our so-called artists seem to value realism
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19:22:13 <andythenorth> perhaps they have not had magritte 101
19:22:39 <Alberth> andythenorth: but can you make nice pixel art other than by rendering for 32bpp?
19:23:34 <Alberth> I have voxels too, but they are invisible :p
19:23:42 <andythenorth> toys look better with limited palettes
19:24:46 <V453000> im staying with the true pixel art. Definitely not drawing in higher resolutions, neither with more colours
19:26:19 <Alberth> V453000: many people will play the game in higher resolution, I suspect, to compensate for the high resolution of their monitor
19:26:44 <V453000> they can, not my problem :)
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19:46:14 <andythenorth> multi-stop docks!
19:48:14 <Wolf01> does anybody of you have a buffalo nas and knows how to tweak the httpd.conf to add some aliases and activate at least the rewrite module?
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20:36:58 <andythenorth> is it April 1st yet?
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20:48:17 <rane> what's a good resource if i want to learn to build a mainline that has 2 railroads to both directions
20:48:59 <rane> i'm sure you have to account for balancing them somehow
20:49:34 <TWerkhoven2[l]> wiki.openttdcoo.org
20:49:43 <TWerkhoven2[l]> mind they play without breakdowns enabled
20:50:03 <rane> i got some convincing arguments why breakdowns disabled makes sense
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21:01:33 <Eddi|zuHause> breakdowsns are probably an even more broken feature than inflation
21:02:06 <andythenorth> broken breakdowns :o
21:03:06 <andythenorth> what will you fix about them?
21:03:37 <Eddi|zuHause> i won't fix breakdowns
21:03:49 <rane> not all broken features can be fixed without removing them
21:03:54 <Rubidium> pff... breakdowns aren't broken
21:04:28 <Eddi|zuHause> Rubidium: have you heard a horse break down yet? :p
21:04:45 <Rubidium> spontanious combustion
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21:08:46 <Alberth> Eddi|zuHause: the newgrf author inventing horses should have realized the problem, and fix it by means of a newgrf spec change
21:08:50 <Eddi|zuHause> the most broken parts about breakdowns include: a breakdown is guaranteed to occur within 256 days, there is no way to reduce that. a breakdown will always cause a full stop, even for multiheaded trains. there is no way to design your network so broken down vehicles are avoided by using parallel tracks
21:10:09 <andythenorth> did you mention RVs yet?
21:10:32 <andythenorth> articulated ones (for all the known reasons) won't go round a break down
21:10:41 <andythenorth> also...broken down ships should....drift
21:11:10 <Eddi|zuHause> and hit the cliffs? :p
21:13:19 <SpComb> does anyone actually play with breakdowns and anything other than point-to-point tracks?
21:13:33 <Rhamphoryncus> wait, 256 days is the cap?!
21:13:56 <Eddi|zuHause> Rhamphoryncus: pretty sure
21:14:01 * andythenorth plays with breakdowns
21:14:05 <Rhamphoryncus> SpComb: nobody does because they suck
21:14:14 <Rhamphoryncus> andythenorth: you are nobody :P
21:15:01 <Rhamphoryncus> Would it be hard to make the pathfinder severely penalize broken down trains? That should be enough to make other trains go around
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21:16:32 * Alberth plays with breakdowns too
21:16:35 <Rubidium> Eddi|zuHause: vehicles need to be inspected, by law, every 256 days. A breakdown in a multiheaded vehicle is always an event that is significant enough to stop the train, e.g. a broken air hose or so
21:16:59 <Rubidium> if it wasn't significant enough it would just continue and you wouldn't notice it was broken
21:17:23 <Rubidium> and even in the real world a broken train disrupts the stream of traffic significantly
21:18:04 <Eddi|zuHause> Rubidium: but still, the other trains could be rerouted
21:18:15 <Alberth> Rhamphoryncus: the path finder does try to avoid other trains by default
21:18:43 <rane> openttdcoop network stuff is daunting :|
21:18:43 <Rhamphoryncus> Alberth: it avoids trains in general. Does it especially avoid broken trains?
21:18:58 <Eddi|zuHause> Rubidium: and the point is, the breakdown is guaranteed every 256 ticks _even though_ you regularly service it. you could check every week, but you still get that guaranteed breakdown
21:19:07 <Rhamphoryncus> rane: that's actually a "prio" or priority merge
21:19:07 <Alberth> Rhamphoryncus: not that I am aware of
21:19:20 <Eddi|zuHause> Rubidium: so servicing has hardly any effect
21:19:30 <Rubidium> Eddi|zuHause: really every 256 ticks?
21:19:38 <Eddi|zuHause> Rubidium: and track layout has hardly any effect either
21:19:42 <Eddi|zuHause> Rubidium: i meant days
21:20:10 <Alberth> rane: yes, they are insane in a good way
21:20:27 <Rhamphoryncus> rane: The coal train is coming through an entry pre-signal. That requires the block following to be empty and an exit or combo pre-signal in that block to be green
21:20:38 <Eddi|zuHause> i can't play coop-style
21:20:53 <Eddi|zuHause> i mean: i don't want to.
21:20:54 <Rubidium> then I declare it a law to test the emergency brakes every 256 days ;)
21:21:23 <Alberth> rane: why? developing your own style is so much more fun than copying one
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21:22:25 <rane> Rhamphoryncus: i think i would have to see that in action to understand how it works
21:22:47 <Alberth> rane: you can also download the games they play
21:23:11 <frosch123> lol, the template replacement guy started all his files with aaa_ :o
21:23:14 <Rhamphoryncus> rane: the real trick is that if there are no exit or combo signals from a certain direction (not merely red but actually not present) then it behaves like an ordinary block signal
21:23:42 <Eddi|zuHause> frosch123: noticed that as well, but didn't really care enough to say anything :p
21:24:07 <frosch123> probably a vim user considering how messed up the whitespace is
21:24:10 <Rhamphoryncus> rane: so a train coming from the bridge merely has 3 block signals. They look like presignals but they're not.
21:24:16 <Rubidium> Eddi|zuHause: what ensures the 256 days?
21:25:05 <rane> Rhamphoryncus: trains coming from which direction in that image have the priority?
21:25:11 <Rhamphoryncus> rane: the bridge
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21:25:29 <Eddi|zuHause> Rubidium: afair there's a "breakdown counter", that gets initialized by a reliability table, reduced by 1 every day, randomly by 20, and breaks down when it hits 0
21:26:30 <Rhamphoryncus> How does the percentage factor in?
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21:30:36 <rane> might've missed some important signals from the previous image
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21:33:45 <michi_cc> Most important quote: "Servicing resets a vehicle's internal reliability score to the maximum, *but does not adjust the breakdown number*. This explains how vehicles can still break down just as they come out of the depot after being serviced."
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21:36:53 <andythenorth> breakdown behaviour is tedious
21:37:01 <andythenorth> I don't like turning breakdowns off
21:37:13 <andythenorth> the game needs stuff like that
21:37:29 <andythenorth> but the 'leave depot, breakdown' behaviour sucks :P
21:37:39 <andythenorth> as does the frequent inability of vehicles to route to depots
21:37:51 <TaKeN> there is any option to generate statistic of my servers ? i see on http://www.openttd.org/en/servers how many ppl is on and how many companies but i want statistic when is more ppl and when is less.. there is any option ?
21:38:25 <Yexo> you'll have to generate that yourself
21:38:29 <TaKeN> because i restart my servers every 6, 10, 18, 22 and now i create a new one
21:38:37 <Yexo> tools that might help you is a library to connect to the admin port to query the current status
21:38:39 <TaKeN> Yexo: aha :( so You don`t have stats for Yourself ?
21:38:56 <TaKeN> but for servers oin webpage
21:39:04 <rane> breakdowns should be a mechanic that can be dealt with by playing smart, or something presents a trade off for the player where they get penalized with breakdowns if they take shortcut, something like that. i don't like randomness.
21:39:45 <Rubidium> there's no history of those numbers
21:40:00 <Alberth> rane: it does by making you pay heavily if you don't take care of reliability of your vehicles
21:40:14 <Rhamphoryncus> Breakdowns don't add any nuance to gameplay. You get that annoying noise, everything stops for a bit.
21:40:42 <Alberth> my trains are spaced out enough not to cause much trouble
21:40:44 <andythenorth> it makes you consider depot placement, which can be interestingly hard in some places
21:40:55 <Rhamphoryncus> If you have a hill and don't power your train enough to go from a standing start then everything stops for a long time.
21:40:57 <andythenorth> and at the start of a game, breakdowns can be a company killer
21:42:18 <Alberth> Rhamphoryncus: sure, so make sure you have a sane train setup :p
21:42:33 <Alberth> like having less wagons :)
21:42:40 <SpComb> quick, someone write a plugin
21:43:07 <Alberth> SpComb it's called an AI, I think
21:43:22 <SpComb> no, a collectd plugin to read from openttd admin port
21:44:03 <rane> can you avoid breakdowns by having multiple maintain orders, depending on length of the route? that might be interesting to manage, or maybe too much overhead
21:44:05 <Eddi|zuHause> that reminds me, i wanted to factor the reliability into the maintenance costs
21:44:15 <Rhamphoryncus> Alberth: which means I can't have both normal trains and mountain trains. The mountain trains aren't designed for better *speed* in the presence of hills. They have to be designed not to stop *at all*. I end up so overpowering that everything ignores hills.
21:44:30 <andythenorth> Eddi|zuHause pikka fakes that by using age as a proxy I think
21:45:13 <Eddi|zuHause> not age, reliability. so you'll have an incentive to service while breakdowns are off
21:45:58 <TaKeN> Yexo: what tools can check every 1 hour stats from all my 3 servers and put on www or something like this ?
21:46:21 <Yexo> TaKeN: there is no tool for that
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21:46:58 <Alberth> TaKeN: all general purpose programming languages, but you have to tell them how
21:47:11 <Rhamphoryncus> rane: Nope, sufficient maintenance will not avoid breakdowns. At a certain point it has no more effect.
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21:50:12 <rane> are there hotkeys for choosing signal type? other than ctrl-click
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21:50:41 <andythenorth> Eddi|zuHause: you could also adjust speed and power in line with reliability :P
21:51:40 <Pulec> 3 hours of plain, two players
21:52:14 <Pulec> had the idea of building from one corner and transport everything that could be transported, than move on
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22:32:51 <Rhamphoryncus> Woops. Arable farms are, apparently, not great sources of plant fibres.
22:35:57 <FLHerne> FIRS has too many kinds of farm
22:40:21 <FLHerne> Yes... I only have rail services to about 40 of the things :P
22:49:04 <Eddi|zuHause> not what i meant
22:50:04 <Rhamphoryncus> FIRS will ultimately let you select which set of industries is active
22:53:32 <Rhamphoryncus> Ahh, tricky. First autorefit fails and you don't get the cargo.. because the industry isn't delivering it yet.
22:56:03 <michi_cc> If you rely extensively on autorefit, you might want to disable the "deliver only on demand" setting.
22:57:24 <Rhamphoryncus> It should be fine. Just surprising.
23:09:23 <Eddi|zuHause> maybe autorefit should create "demand" for all eligible cargos
23:11:08 <frosch123> that would rather break stuff
23:11:20 <frosch123> it should be possible to enable demand via the station gui
23:11:36 <frosch123> Eddi|zuHause: it would effectively call demand on everything
23:11:49 <Eddi|zuHause> frosch123: only if the current order has autorefit
23:11:53 <frosch123> even if you do not want to transport the stuff
23:12:02 <Eddi|zuHause> frosch123: for all "normal" orders it'll be fine
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23:33:57 <Ricaz> I'm trying to figure out signals.
23:34:04 <Ricaz> This is a station I have built to test
23:34:15 <Ricaz> But I'm unsure what signals to use where
23:35:31 <Eddi|zuHause> put a path signal behind the platform (from train's direction)
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23:36:07 <Ricaz> Hm? Let's start by the lower side
23:36:20 <Ricaz> trains only run on the right track of the line
23:37:33 <Eddi|zuHause> let's go along the inner track. you have lots of basic block signals along the track, that's alright
23:37:50 <Eddi|zuHause> then you have a one-way path signal at the end of the track (with the red bar)
23:37:58 <Eddi|zuHause> then the junction
23:38:00 <michi_cc> Ricaz: Enable "show reserved tracks" if you haven't yet. Helps for such stuff.
23:38:02 <Eddi|zuHause> then the platform
23:38:07 <Eddi|zuHause> then another junction
23:38:20 <Eddi|zuHause> and get back to the inner track with the block signals
23:38:35 <michi_cc> Somewhere under Interface in the advanced settings.
23:38:53 <Ricaz> the first 1W path signal is good?
23:39:10 <Eddi|zuHause> now add 2-way pathsignals to each platform
23:39:11 <Ricaz> then I need more path signals after that one?
23:39:19 <Eddi|zuHause> so that the train can see them from inside the station
23:39:41 <Ricaz> oh so they need to face the opposite way
23:41:06 <Eddi|zuHause> then you're basically done
23:41:23 <Eddi|zuHause> replicate that same setup for the outer track in the other direction
23:41:37 <Ricaz> well if 6 trains come from that direction, will they properly slide into the station?
23:41:45 <Ricaz> or do I need more paths?
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23:42:43 <Eddi|zuHause> just let them drive for a while, you'll learn to see the bottlenecks :)
23:44:26 <Ricaz> well this is one big bottleneck now lol
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23:47:07 <Yexo> the signals facing the station have to be right next to each platform
23:47:42 <Yexo> <michi_cc> Ricaz: Enable "show reserved tracks" if you haven't yet. Helps for such stuff. <_ this helps to spot why
23:48:07 <Ricaz> I just did enable that, no difference :s
23:48:22 <Yexo> where do you expect the stopped train to go to?
23:48:41 <Ricaz> I want it to go to a free slot
23:48:55 <Ricaz> So I just need 12 path signals at eash side? :o
23:49:17 <michi_cc> Ricaz: You can actually see the path on the exit of track A. I think with the TTD graphics that is easier to see.
23:50:52 <Ricaz> Thanks, that helped a lot :D
23:51:38 * FLHerne tries to merge lots of patches
23:52:20 <FLHerne> Does anyone have an estimate on how long OTTD should take to compile? I need to sleep sometime :-(
23:53:00 <Ricaz> thanks Yexo, that is almost what I have now
23:53:00 <Yexo> FLHerne: depends a lot on your computer, but not very long
23:53:40 <FLHerne> That was a completely pointless question, wasn't it? 8-)
23:54:12 <Yexo> it takes 1m11s for me after a make clean
23:54:26 <FLHerne> Given I've had 40 mins to 8 hours, I really should know better...
23:55:04 <FLHerne> I've got one attempt compiling on each core to see what errors I get :P
23:56:17 <Ricaz> How come I can't choose a road layout and Large size for the town I'm about to found?
23:57:18 <Yexo> not sure about the road layout
23:57:31 <Yexo> town sizes are only available in the scenario editor, when founding a town in game it's always "small"
23:57:48 <Ricaz> Well, I can choose small, medium and random
23:57:48 * FLHerne still can't get Cargodist and More Heightlevels to coexist :-(
23:57:59 <Ricaz> for the roads I can change it in the advanced settings
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