IRC logs for #openttd on OFTC at 2012-01-09
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00:50:18 <Eddi|zuHause> we need a "download AIs now" button on the "only dummy AI available" message
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04:59:49 <Nat_as> how do I change the newgrif files in a scenerio in 1.2.0-beta2?
05:00:28 <Nat_as> I changed the Developer setting and understand this can crash the game, but I can't seem to even find the option to load new newgrifs into an existing scenerio
05:00:49 <Nat_as> which really sucks when people make tropical maps without the tropical refurbishment set
05:03:48 <Nat_as> (and is anybody awake?)
05:13:34 <Nat_as> no wait, I hit the wrong settings, it works now
05:13:44 <Nat_as> thanks anyways sleepy people!
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11:16:07 <peter1138> load average: 150.28, 149.27, 148.63
11:26:44 * ^Spike^ saw like 600 2 weeks ago... :)
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13:09:56 <Eddi|zuHause> "please don't include an expert mode that can screw up things. people always think they're experts."
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14:08:57 <Rubidium> Eddi|zuHause: but we have an expert mode... it allows you to change everything about the game ;)
14:09:28 <Eddi|zuHause> Rubidium: i guess it helps when it's not called "expert mode" :)
14:09:43 <Eddi|zuHause> but more like "source code" :p
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14:46:05 <rasco> i made a server that runs 3 times as slowly by pausing the game constantly
14:48:32 <peter1138> in video/dedicated_v.cpp, change the 30s to 90s :p
14:52:40 <rasco> no, i made it server-side only
14:52:49 <rasco> so you dont need a modified client
14:52:51 <TrueBrain> what peter1138 says is server side only
14:53:48 <peter1138> makes it run 3x as slowly
14:54:02 <rasco> cause i cant find a "30" in that file
14:54:59 <TrueBrain> in src/gfx_type.h these days
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14:55:28 <rasco> awesome... and that works? i gotta try it out right now...
14:56:22 <rasco> cause i talked to ppl yesterday
14:56:29 <rasco> and they said it's not possible to slow the game down
14:56:48 <rasco> without economic effects
14:57:42 <TrueBrain> that was because you asked the wrong question; or at least, it was understood as another question
14:57:52 <michi_cc> Slowing the game down without economic effects is totally easy. Only that people don't actually want that :)
14:58:13 <TrueBrain> michi_cc: I guess we found someone who does; he is now pausing the game to get the same :P
14:58:25 <michi_cc> Because it also means 'slowing vehicles down' which most people don't want.
14:58:37 <rasco> oh, okay. yes i want EVERYTHING slowed down
14:58:50 <rasco> so that i can play the game over weeks
14:59:02 <rasco> without having to spend hours in front of the screen
14:59:07 <andythenorth> use the patch from Eddi|zuHause :P
14:59:11 <TrueBrain> from our point of view, it is a very unusual request
14:59:16 <TrueBrain> but yeah, you can slow down the whole game easily :P
14:59:30 <rasco> well, without the massive...
14:59:35 <rasco> but you know what i mean
14:59:37 <TrueBrain> just vehicle movement will be painfully slow :(
14:59:40 <michi_cc> Easy, just change MILLISECONDS_PER_TICK in gfx_type.h to whatever you want.
14:59:55 <TrueBrain> michi_cc: that was what peter1138 said yes :P
15:00:05 <planetmaker> rasco, you can also just enable the "build in pause" mode and only unpause when needed
15:00:15 <rasco> wow haha changing MILLISECONDS_PER_TICK effects every single file -> recompile EVERYTHING :D :(
15:00:17 <peter1138> i guess my tree is old? :P
15:00:26 <peter1138> yeah, damn those headers
15:00:36 <rasco> planetmaker: i want to make a server for many people, running for weeks or months
15:00:42 <rasco> starting at 1800 or sth
15:01:24 <rasco> so i dont want to be pausing and unpausing manually
15:01:31 <rasco> but instead just have the game run really slowly
15:03:20 <rasco> how many minutes is a month approximately?
15:05:44 <planetmaker> a year computes roughly to 13 ... 14 minutes
15:06:32 <rasco> i might make a year take something like... 6 hours
15:07:22 <rasco> two months for a game from 1800 to 2000
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15:25:28 <rasco> is it possible for the server to take money from a company without a desync?
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15:31:25 <TrueBrain> only if you send it to another company
15:44:28 <TWerkhoven> that reminds me of something, why do you 'give money' to a clien
15:44:35 <TWerkhoven> t instead of a company
15:44:58 <planetmaker> rasco, game scripts might do that. Or can't they already, TrueBrain ?
15:44:59 <TWerkhoven> even though the money goes into the company vault
15:45:12 <TrueBrain> TWerkhoven: histerical reasons
15:45:38 <planetmaker> hysterical raisins even
15:46:55 <rasco> Ultra slow NARS server: webciv.net
15:47:00 <rasco> Just started, year 1830
15:58:43 <rasco> now that i see my horse carriages moving ultra slowly i see that i'd actually like to see them move faster, just with less in-game time passing :)
15:59:03 <rasco> does eddi's patch work well?
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16:02:42 <TrueBrain> rasco: pick any daylength patch for that :)
16:02:50 <TrueBrain> read carefully what they do, as they all approach the problem differently
16:03:46 <rasco> i only found one daylength patch
16:04:07 <andythenorth> the patch by Eddi|zuHause is stupid and utterly brilliant
16:04:30 <rasco> what's stupid and what's brilliant about it?
16:04:39 <andythenorth> at the end of each year, it rewinds the date by 1 year (it does this once only for eac year)
16:04:57 <andythenorth> in the game, this actually works perfectly
16:05:07 <rasco> is there any that works server-side only?
16:05:08 <andythenorth> but it means vehicle availability is a little odd
16:26:38 <planetmaker> rasco, I guess your pausing-idea is the only server-side solution which seems possible
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17:53:52 <frosch123> always misreads the name of the grf "Cantilever Bidge Renewal"
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18:45:52 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: translators * r23779 /trunk/src/lang/ (9 files in 2 dirs): (log message trimmed)
18:45:52 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: -Update from WebTranslator v3.0:
18:45:52 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: bulgarian - 12 changes by kokobongo
18:45:52 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: croatian - 4 changes by VoyagerOne
18:45:52 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: dutch - 2 changes by habell
18:45:54 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: english_AU - 2 changes by tomas4g
18:45:54 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: latvian - 25 changes by Parastais, Tranzistors
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21:03:17 <planetmaker> A goal script can't yet try to found an industry, right?
21:13:33 <frosch123> need extending for OWNER_DEITY though
21:13:51 <frosch123> it can only make other companies fund industries :p
21:14:09 <planetmaker> and it can't give you yet money iirc
21:14:18 <planetmaker> but make you build industries. Nice ;-)
21:14:57 <planetmaker> "You have a possession to fund a new industry every year. Make sure you have enough money! [ ] accept [ ] quit game"
21:15:12 <planetmaker> s/possession/obsession/g
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21:23:00 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: truebrain * r23780 /trunk/src/ (5 files in 2 dirs):
21:23:00 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: -Fix [FS#4963] (r23764): also name the two new errors server-side. As extra,
21:23:00 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: split up one of the errors in 3 errors, to be more specific what goes wrong. As
21:23:00 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: cherry on top, make sure on all sides we can never again forget to add such
21:23:00 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: entries on both sides, by introducing an assert_compile()
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22:16:08 <Nemoder> hi, I'm running stable and can't figure out how to get any of the town name newgrf's to work, it just defaults to whatever is set in game options
22:17:54 <Nemoder> is there some trick to activating them?
22:19:27 <Noldo> what did you find with google?
22:20:05 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: rubidium * r23781 /trunk/src/train_cmd.cpp: -Fix [FS#4964]: under certain circumstances, e.g. a single invalid order, trying to determine the next order state could end up in an infinite loop
22:20:49 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: rubidium * r23782 /trunk/src/strings.cpp: -Fix [FS#4965]: crash due to genders used for station name in hangar string of Italian translation
22:21:47 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: rubidium * r23783 /trunk/src/ (command.cpp command_type.h vehicle_cmd.cpp): -Cleanup: remove ancient but not needed command flag
22:22:38 <Nemoder> Noldo: me? nothing helpful, just to add them to the newgrf list, but it doesn't seem to change anything on new games
22:23:32 <Rubidium> you still need to choose the town name generator in the "game options", although I don't know how that'd exactly work in the configuration file
22:23:46 <Rubidium> but generate a configuration file with the GUI and use thatt
22:24:45 <Nemoder> oh, just manually edit the config file? the game option screen doesn't add newgrf names to that menu
22:27:31 <Nemoder> ahh nevermind, i had to restart the game
22:27:53 <Nemoder> seems fine now, thanks
22:31:08 <andythenorth> is there anyway to do something like a "for 1 to n" loop in CPP?
22:32:30 <valhallasw> for(i=0;i<=n;i++) {} ?
22:32:49 <andythenorth> looks like C++ ;)
22:33:02 <valhallasw> oh, you mean something else with cpp?
22:34:08 * andythenorth suspects pre-processor doesn't do for loops :P
22:34:59 <valhallasw> you could probably include a pipe though
22:35:04 <valhallasw> which gives the same effect
22:35:14 <valhallasw> with some more code cruft, though ;-)
22:35:35 <valhallasw> (I have no idea what you're trying to accomplish)
22:35:38 <michi_cc> What have pipes to do with the C PreProcessor?
22:37:03 <andythenorth> I have stuff like this, but it doesn't scale well to 'n' trailers :P
22:37:04 <andythenorth> #if THIS_NUM_TRAILERS == 1
22:37:04 <andythenorth> #include "../templates/trailer_callbacks/build_1_trailer_cb.tnml"
22:37:06 <valhallasw> the preprocessor maybe cannot do loops, but you could make a program to unroll it yourself and pump it through a pipe into the preprocessor ;-)
22:37:18 <valhallasw> or just make your own pre-preprocessor!
22:37:25 <planetmaker> andythenorth: what is your aim?
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22:40:18 <andythenorth> planetmaker: the aim is templating to handle 1-n trailers
22:40:26 <andythenorth> realistically n is probably 4 though
22:40:32 <andythenorth> so I don't know if it's worth the effort
22:40:38 <planetmaker> templating is not an aim
22:40:40 <andythenorth> I might just hard-code evey
22:40:48 <planetmaker> what does it look like
22:42:14 <andythenorth> that's fine for 3 trailers, and would extend easily to 4
22:42:23 <andythenorth> but I wanted to see if there was a way to scale to n
22:42:34 <andythenorth> "write it twice, automate it" :P
22:43:45 <planetmaker> I don't get that approach, andy
22:43:56 <andythenorth> in the example code?
22:43:57 <planetmaker> why not make a template for each trailer# and just include that?
22:44:12 <planetmaker> instead of #define NUM_TRAILERS 1
22:44:20 <planetmaker> #include trailers.tnml
22:44:31 <planetmaker> use #include trailers_1.tnml
22:45:43 <andythenorth> there was some reason that made sense at the time :P
22:46:01 <iddqd> just finished building my new system
22:46:16 <^Spike^> whoop die fricking doo
22:46:41 <^Spike^> wrong channel actually.. but it fits anyway
22:46:53 <^Spike^> cause reading that i do have the same thoughts
22:50:57 <TrueBrain> ^Spike^: it is indeed an appropiate reply in any channel :P
22:51:47 <Eddi|zuHause> andythenorth: there is some way to replace tokens in strings, so something along the lines of "build_" ## NUM_TRAILERS ## "_trailer_cb"
22:52:04 <andythenorth> I wondered about that
22:52:18 <Eddi|zuHause> i'm not sure about the exact syntax
22:52:23 <Eddi|zuHause> but it definitely is possible
22:52:37 <Hawson> openttd/trunk/src/screenshot.cpp:725:40: error: ?FileExists? was not declared in this scope
22:52:42 <andythenorth> I could do it nearly in nml as well, with an extra switch and advanced varact 2
22:53:00 <andythenorth> write the number of trailers into the switch with CPP and branch accordingly
22:54:11 <Eddi|zuHause> andythenorth: why not just define your artic callback as "01 NUM_TRAILERS TRAILER_ID"? then it works for any number of trailers
22:54:22 <Eddi|zuHause> andythenorth: don't need a template for each
22:55:21 <Eddi|zuHause> Hawson: there recently was some header shuffling
22:55:24 <andythenorth> CPP in the upper bound of the range?
22:55:35 <Eddi|zuHause> andythenorth: yes
22:55:57 <Hawson> Eddi|zuHause: I figured, though I'd mention it.
22:56:35 *** DorpsGek sets mode: +o TrueBrain
22:56:39 *** TrueBrain changes topic to "1.1.4, 1.2.0-beta2 | Website: *.openttd.org (translator: translator, server list: servers, wiki: wiki, patches & bug-reports: bugs, revision log: vcs, release info: finger) | Don't ask to ask, just ask | 'Latest' is not a valid version, ever | English only"
22:56:41 *** DorpsGek sets mode: -o TrueBrain
22:56:50 <Eddi|zuHause> Hawson: which compiler?
22:57:14 <rasco> hey guys, wanna join my Ultra Slow game? time runs 10 times slower than normal: address: webciv.net
22:57:41 <Hawson> gcc version 3.4.6 20060404 (Red Hat 3.4.6-11)
22:57:59 <Hawson> that's my Centos4 box. :)
22:58:09 <Hawson> gcc version 4.6.2 20111027 (Red Hat 4.6.2-1) (GCC)
22:58:23 <Eddi|zuHause> that sounds more sane :p
22:58:58 <TrueBrain> any special configure options you used?
22:59:28 <Hawson> well, *I* don't think so. :)
22:59:47 <TrueBrain> any local modifications?
22:59:49 <TrueBrain> lets start with that
23:00:27 <TrueBrain> let me guess, you dont have png :)
23:00:54 <Hawson> that'd be a good guess...
23:01:20 <Hawson> and while correct (missing libpng-devel package), that's not the problem
23:02:16 <Hawson> I disable some of the compression options
23:02:30 <Eddi|zuHause> you need to reconfigure after installing stuff
23:04:05 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: truebrain * r23784 /trunk/src/screenshot.cpp: -Revert (r23740): compiling without libpng failed to include a correct header
23:04:11 <Hawson> (doing a full rebuild)
23:04:20 <planetmaker> Hawson: w/o liblzma you might be unable to join some servers
23:04:24 <Hawson> planetmaker: that's okay
23:04:52 <Hawson> during ./configure and both understand and accept them
23:04:56 <planetmaker> I'd even guess: most servers
23:05:00 <planetmaker> it's our default compression
23:05:10 <Hawson> I'm not going to connect remotely from this system
23:05:34 <TrueBrain> include-trees are a bitch! :)
23:05:52 <TrueBrain> anyway, I was going to bad I said 15 minutes ago :)
23:06:00 <planetmaker> sleep well, TrueBrain
23:06:06 <planetmaker> And I should go, too.
23:06:29 <Eddi|zuHause> bah... the colours struck again...
23:06:40 <Eddi|zuHause> two blue people talking makes them totally indistinguishible
23:07:15 <andythenorth> Eddi|zuHause: you took a blue pill?
23:07:56 <Eddi|zuHause> andythenorth: i wouldn't actually remember that, that's the point of the blue pill
23:08:36 <andythenorth> maybe I should stop ducking the issue, and just write a code generator
23:08:43 <andythenorth> but that will suck
23:08:52 <Eddi|zuHause> i have a code generator :)
23:08:56 <andythenorth> writing unscalable CPP is much better surely :P
23:09:25 <Eddi|zuHause> it's also shinily refactored since i last offered it to you :)
23:09:57 <andythenorth> on the one hand that sounds shiny
23:10:04 <andythenorth> on the other, my code is nearly done :(
23:10:18 <andythenorth> if I rewrote it, or used a generator it's only to make it more elegant :P
23:10:23 <andythenorth> it won't make the trucks any better
23:10:44 <andythenorth> is there anything actually wrong with clunky CPP?
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23:15:13 <andythenorth> do vehicles have persistent storage yet?
23:15:50 * andythenorth figures out a way to fake it
23:16:09 * andythenorth awards self 7 bits of persistent storage
23:16:24 <Eddi|zuHause> andythenorth: they only have random bits
23:16:32 <andythenorth> how many vehicle IDs do I get?
23:16:37 <andythenorth> is it 255, or 65k?
23:16:50 <Eddi|zuHause> 16k for articulation, 64k otherwise
23:17:09 <andythenorth> let's say my set has 1k vehicles (far less in reality)
23:17:18 <DorpsGek> andythenorth: 105000
23:17:23 <andythenorth> quite a lot of storage
23:17:38 <andythenorth> basically, build lead vehicle, shorten to 1/8, build 7 'storage' vehicles
23:17:41 <andythenorth> ID is significant
23:17:49 <andythenorth> this can only be written to on construction
23:17:53 <Eddi|zuHause> CETS used some 1200-ish IDs at the last count
23:17:59 <andythenorth> this is read only storage :P
23:19:04 <Eddi|zuHause> what do you need the "storage" for?
23:19:26 <andythenorth> things like 'what type of truck is this: solo, drawbar trailer(s), fifth-wheel trailer(s)'
23:19:34 <andythenorth> not actually much else
23:19:42 <Eddi|zuHause> why not encode that in the ID?
23:19:48 <andythenorth> could also do that
23:19:54 <andythenorth> or have a big lookup table
23:20:01 <andythenorth> or solve issue differently with CPP
23:20:03 <Eddi|zuHause> andythenorth: and you have the vehicle custom flags
23:20:31 <andythenorth> this isn't blocking anything, I'm just looking for code elegance
23:20:38 <Eddi|zuHause> which you can read individually, or ORed over the whole consist
23:20:40 <andythenorth> the CPP I'm using is brutally robust
23:20:47 <andythenorth> where are these flags? :P
23:21:09 <Eddi|zuHause> dunno, maybe they exist only for trains
23:22:25 <andythenorth> not listed for RVs
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23:22:36 <andythenorth> could also set the animation frame
23:22:48 <andythenorth> or even the sound effect (assuming that can be read)
23:23:39 <andythenorth> anyway, the CPP works, and I might go to bed
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