IRC logs for #openttd on OFTC at 2011-10-26
⏴ go to previous day
00:08:20 *** blotek_ is now known as blotek
00:32:39 *** yorick_ has joined #openttd
04:56:23 *** Eddi|zuHause has joined #openttd
05:12:58 *** DayDreamer has joined #openttd
05:31:30 *** JVassie has joined #openttd
05:57:34 *** Cybertinus has joined #openttd
06:37:29 *** sla_ro|master has joined #openttd
07:06:33 *** Celestar has joined #openttd
07:22:37 <Terkhen> hi planetmaker and Celestar
07:28:39 *** Progman has joined #openttd
07:29:14 <planetmaker> salut Ammler, blathijs, MINM
07:34:09 <Terkhen> hi Ammler and blathijs :P
07:45:14 *** TheMask96 has joined #openttd
07:50:18 *** George is now known as Guest14789
08:05:32 <Celestar> I hate indian coders.....
08:06:37 <Celestar> if ($spid==500) write_output("500"); elsif ($spid==501) write_output("501"); elsif ($spid==502) write_output("502") ....
08:06:44 <Celestar> 45 more lines of this follow.
08:07:07 <peter1138> do they get paid per line? :S
08:10:40 <Celestar> peter1138: I hope so, because that would be the only semi-sane explanation...
08:11:27 <Celestar> Make absolutely sure the reader totally understands that the function
08:11:28 <Celestar> does something, but leave him in the dark as to what "something" is:
08:11:31 <Celestar> sub do_perform_action {
08:12:03 <peter1138> openttd has a funny one
08:12:10 <peter1138> ReallyDoDrawString()
08:12:20 <Celestar> but I also found this :
08:12:33 <Celestar> switch($pz_arguments->{NoOfDigit}) {
08:12:34 <Celestar> case 2 {$padded_value = sprintf("%02d",
08:12:34 <Celestar> $pz_arguments->{Number});}
08:12:34 <Celestar> case 3 {$padded_value = sprintf("%03d",
08:12:34 <Celestar> $pz_arguments->{Number});}
08:12:36 <Celestar> case 4 {$padded_value = sprintf("%04d",
08:12:38 <Celestar> $pz_arguments->{Number});}
08:12:50 <Celestar> ...goes all the way up to 20.
08:13:41 <DDR_> Now brought to you by Celestar.
08:13:55 <Celestar> I have a year's worth of WTFs from reviewing this code.
08:14:08 <DDR_> Also: Well, at least he used a switch, and not a bunch of if...else...s
08:14:20 <DDR_> Who's code are you looking at, anyway?
08:15:12 <Celestar> an Indian development center
08:15:36 <Celestar> I'm supposed to be quality assurance for their code.
08:15:42 <Celestar> which is pretty easy a job tbh.
08:15:48 <Celestar> because it's utterly worthless
08:16:20 <Celestar> so spotting errors isn't .. hard.
08:18:38 <Celestar> so I'm sending the shit back all the time.
08:18:53 <Celestar> I'm just losing track of u
08:19:23 *** Celestar has joined #openttd
08:19:27 <Terkhen> I also hope that they are paid per line :P
08:21:46 <Celestar> honestly, I hope they're not payed at all
08:25:32 <Celestar> this part was apparently "code reviewed"
08:31:56 *** George|2 has joined #openttd
08:31:57 *** George is now known as Guest14795
08:31:57 *** George|2 is now known as George
08:32:03 <peter1138> that appears to be checking if a number will fit in a signed 32 bit integer
08:40:40 *** George is now known as Guest14797
08:40:49 *** LordAro has joined #openttd
08:52:54 *** George|2 has joined #openttd
08:52:54 *** George is now known as Guest14798
08:52:54 *** George|2 is now known as George
09:14:13 *** George|2 has joined #openttd
09:14:13 *** George is now known as Guest14800
09:14:14 *** George|2 is now known as George
09:26:09 <Celestar> peter1138: that is exactly it.
09:26:57 <Celestar> not that a ($number > 2^31) you know :P
09:28:32 <Celestar> that's the problem with those languages. Any idiot can start hacking away and call himself "developer"
09:29:05 *** George is now known as Guest14803
09:31:17 *** Brianetta has joined #openttd
09:35:04 *** George|2 has joined #openttd
09:35:04 *** George is now known as Guest14804
09:35:05 *** George|2 is now known as George
09:50:56 *** Adambean has joined #openttd
09:53:57 *** George is now known as Guest14805
10:25:15 <Arafangion> Hmm. Food, movie, or openttd...
10:25:25 * Arafangion can only pick two.
10:26:51 <planetmaker> get a smartphone or tablet. Then you can have all three :-P
10:27:16 <Arafangion> I have a smartphone, but I can't watch a movie *and* play openttd at teh same time!
10:27:16 <planetmaker> though there are no official versions of OpenTTD for such devices
10:27:41 <Arafangion> Certainly not while eating.
10:28:50 *** Celestar has joined #openttd
10:29:23 <Eddi|zuHause> get a PC, and you can totally do that
10:30:09 <planetmaker> then I indeed so nothing which stops all three activities persued at once :-)
10:30:09 <Arafangion> Several, in fact, but openttd and the movie will each demand 100% focus.
10:30:46 <planetmaker> Start a few AIs. Have them build for you and watch movie :-P
10:30:46 <Arafangion> planetmaker: You are clearly a robot, or a girl.
10:30:53 <planetmaker> i.e. OpenTTD plays for you ;-)
10:31:11 <Arafangion> planetmaker: Actually, I sometimes think about making an AI.
10:31:25 <planetmaker> Arafangion: don't make a new one. Make an existing one better
10:31:40 <planetmaker> (my 2ct. There are many AIs which are started. But very few very good ones)
10:32:02 <planetmaker> much could be gained there by collaboration
10:32:15 <Arafangion> But AI's tend to be very particular.
10:32:38 <Arafangion> The way the logic's implemented, for instance.
10:32:48 <Arafangion> I'd prefer a fuzzy logic system.
10:34:39 <planetmaker> even that in itself does not lend itself automatically to "write an AI from scratch"
10:36:02 <Arafangion> Well, you could reuse pathfinding algorithms, etc.
10:36:29 <Arafangion> But the AI rules are completely dependant on the engine. Change the engine, heck, add or remove rules, and all the other rules have to be changed. (Or at the least, tweaked)
10:37:11 <V453000> it might be easier to teach someone to play as you want :P
11:10:57 <Eddi|zuHause> why's my ICQ connection so unstable lately?
11:17:05 <Celestar> for a few weeks now even
11:17:21 * planetmaker ceased to use ICQ. Some time ago
11:21:58 <TrueBrain> what? ICQ still exists?!
11:25:17 * blathijs stopped using ICQ when his account stopped working all of the sudden...
11:28:11 <peter1138> they like to fiddle the protocol
11:28:18 <peter1138> but nobody uses the official client these days
11:28:25 <peter1138> nobody uses it these days :p
11:30:46 <Dany0> hey guys, quick question, what was the angle of dimetric projection openttd uses again?
11:34:10 <Dany0> how do you remember me?
11:37:35 <Dany0> ? so can you tell me the angle
11:37:50 <planetmaker> it's one px up and two to the side
11:37:51 <Dany0> or at least the sprite reference
11:38:15 <planetmaker> just look at one of the many ground sprites... it tells you all you need basically
11:38:34 <planetmaker> athttp://newgrf-specs.tt-wiki.net/wiki/PalettesAndCoordinates#Coordinates
11:40:37 <planetmaker> iirc it's 26.5° as that's said to be the angle for one up = two horizontal. But I never bothered to verify.
11:41:02 <Celestar> it's not isometric :P
11:42:40 <planetmaker> that's why it's called dimetric, Celestar ;-)
11:42:44 <planetmaker> No-one said isometric
11:42:54 <Celestar> I read it somewhere in some docu :P
11:43:01 <Celestar> can't remember where (=
11:45:46 <peter1138> so is it still not a sloped sprite?
11:46:00 <planetmaker> the first is the flat ground tile
11:46:15 <Dany0> Tim asks if it's worth the work
11:46:18 <planetmaker> which gives you the dimensions for a tile
11:46:36 <planetmaker> one height level is 8px
11:46:59 <Dany0> (I think what he says is that he's worried no one would buy qubicle for openttd)
11:47:14 <planetmaker> and "worth the work" is in the eye of the beholder. You need to have fun. But actually buy stuff?
11:47:40 <Dany0> peter1138: maker of qubicle
11:47:44 <Celestar> michi_cc: you about?
11:48:24 <planetmaker> Dany0: the question is then: what would I gain by using "cubicles" and *whatever* software?
11:48:28 <planetmaker> Over what I have now
11:48:39 <Celestar> michi_cc: I'm still pondering about the map array. You said that moving m7 into Tile reduced performance by a significant amount?
11:49:15 <Dany0> there is no fucking cubicles!
11:49:20 <peter1138> Dany0, i was impressed by the way you lined up a sprite, rotated it a bit, and used that as the size of the new qubicle object as if it was somehow relevant
11:49:53 <Dany0> 2. a voxel is not a cube
11:49:59 <Dany0> 3. minecraft is not a voxel game
11:50:25 <Dany0> 5. qubicle is better then Blender for sure
11:50:29 <planetmaker> you can rant on or focus on the real question of "what would I gain"?
11:50:53 <Celestar> michi_cc: 7% in the tile loop alone sounds a lot.
11:51:01 <Celestar> michi_cc: any idea what exactly causes it?
11:51:19 <Dany0> planetmaker: it's better then blender, faster do do, easier and much faster to render
11:51:25 <Dany0> planetmaker: but you can't batch export
11:51:37 <Dany0> planetmaker: and it doesn't save as *.pcx
11:51:45 <Dany0> planetmaker: it works in wine 100% platinum I'd say
11:51:49 <peter1138> saving as pcx is irrelevant
11:52:11 <Dany0> how do you remember me?
11:52:17 <Dany0> I don't even remember half of you
11:52:18 <peter1138> any non-lossy image format is good
11:52:30 <Dany0> peter1138: yes no problem there
11:52:34 <planetmaker> Dany0: people who fall in a rant that easily are easily remembered ;-)
11:52:55 <michi_cc> Two simple factors: Worse cache behavior and the fact that the x86 instruction set allows max *8 in a single address calculation. So for anything with a stride > 8 you need at least two instructions for every memory access.
11:52:58 <Dany0> if you guys go, and try out the basic edition
11:53:17 *** Guest14814 has joined #openttd
11:53:35 *** Guest14814 is now known as bonau
11:53:38 *** bonau is now known as bondau
11:53:55 <planetmaker> Dany0: the system requirements are already a fail for me ;-)
11:53:56 <bondau> long time play, first time IRCer
11:54:09 <Dany0> and you're willing to pay for it(I don't support it though, I think the basic edition is sufficient enough)
11:54:10 <planetmaker> you'd need to give me an OSX one
11:54:21 <Dany0> and you make a topic in feature requests
11:54:57 <peter1138> who are you talking to though?
11:55:15 <peter1138> they're the people who use the tools
11:55:21 <Dany0> who's willing to make sprites
11:56:17 <planetmaker> The best way to convince people, I think, might be to actually start using it for this sprite purposes and post in the graphics development section
11:56:52 <Dany0> plus it can't render dimetric yet
11:57:29 <peter1138> is it perspective then?
11:57:46 <planetmaker> MINM: yes, it might do that
11:58:00 <Dany0> peter1138: no it's isometric
11:58:03 <planetmaker> it only shows for me with the appropriate FF plug-in
11:58:06 <Dany0> peter1138: it's all ortographic
11:58:18 <peter1138> i thought i saw you move the angle around
11:58:20 <planetmaker> it's also not meant to be an image galery. Just the web-interface of the repo
11:58:33 <Dany0> it's possible he will add perspective to enable minecraft/slab6-like modelling, but it's just in the clouds
11:59:02 <planetmaker> Well. Di-metric is what we need
11:59:34 <planetmaker> MINM: and interestingly it shows in the preview in my irc client ;-)
12:00:27 <planetmaker> MINM: I use the 'Open in Browser' add-on
12:00:51 <Dany0> ok so Tim promised dimetric will be in next or after next version
12:01:13 <Eddi|zuHause> dimetric with very odd stretching factors for each dimension
12:01:18 <planetmaker> It makes sense, Dany0. It's the most common sprite perspective
12:01:45 <Dany0> planetmaker: you mean globally?
12:02:16 <planetmaker> as it's easy to draw rectangles in it
12:02:20 <planetmaker> without looking too bad
12:03:09 <Dany0> planetmaker: are you sure?
12:03:31 <Dany0> I think the most common is isometric and classic side-view
12:03:39 <Eddi|zuHause> the dimetric that openttd uses is very common
12:03:54 <Dany0> qubicle will ship with the OpenTTD palette
12:03:55 <peter1138> when people say "isometric" in the context of computer games, they mean dimetric
12:04:01 <Eddi|zuHause> it fits neatly in screen coordinates when diagonal lines
12:04:12 <Eddi|zuHause> have 2px left/right and 1px up/down
12:04:25 <Dany0> ok guys if you think so I'll believe you
12:04:29 <Eddi|zuHause> that results in an angle of 26.5°
12:04:35 <peter1138> maybe you should read that wikipedia link :)
12:04:55 <Eddi|zuHause> which is slightly smaller than the "original" isometric angle of 30°
12:05:14 <Dany0> peter1138: I've been there lots of times, thanks
12:05:32 <peter1138> are you sure? you wouldn't've just asked that question if you'd read it.
12:05:55 <planetmaker> to be precise, the angle is atan(0.5)
12:05:57 <Eddi|zuHause> peter1138: i'd see that phrase like "yes, i did read the readme" :p
12:06:47 <Eddi|zuHause> well, i did explain that already 2 days ago...
12:07:45 <planetmaker> Dany0: if you read the wiki link, you'd not need calculate ;-)
12:08:58 <bondau> Hey Guys, so im thinking of setting up an OpenTTD server, what kind of bandwidth do they use?
12:09:26 <Dany0> bondau: last time I checked(~2 years ago) 2megs are good for 4 players
12:09:27 <planetmaker> bondau: 2kbit / client and map downloads. iirc
12:09:47 <Dany0> planetmaker: am I right?
12:10:17 <Eddi|zuHause> but i seriously fail to see the point... you combine the disadvantages of pixel-pushing with the disadvantages of 3D-rendering, without any of the benefits...
12:11:11 <Dany0> you know unlimited detail technology?
12:12:09 <Eddi|zuHause> bondau: the initial map download may be up to 4MB for large maps
12:12:27 <planetmaker> there speed matters
12:12:31 <bondau> its on a 50mb/50mb connection
12:12:45 <Eddi|zuHause> bondau: usually the limit is the client's download
12:13:11 <Eddi|zuHause> unless you have like 10 people joining simultaneously
12:13:46 <planetmaker> Eddi|zuHause: that'd not happen iirc. they're then queued
12:13:52 <planetmaker> unless that changed
12:15:03 <Eddi|zuHause> well... whatever
12:23:54 <Celestar> michi_cc: hm... I'm also wondering how to find "neighbors" fast.
12:24:05 <Dany0> Eddi|zuHause: are you there?
12:25:54 <Celestar> bondau: the kbits/client are independent of map size, the initial connect, of course not :)
12:30:01 <bondau> im starting a sever, and a few mates of mine want to run a comp for the game at a lan party
12:30:15 *** mahmoud has joined #openttd
12:30:22 <bondau> they think 8 might get a bit hectic
12:30:26 <Dany0> I've never played OTTD co-op in my life :(
12:31:29 <peter1138> Dany0, yes, it's bullshit
12:33:06 <Celestar> what is BS? coop? :P
12:33:15 <peter1138> i stated afterwards :S
12:33:18 <Dany0> peter1138: not to you, and I know it's bullshit
12:33:27 <Celestar> sorry. hugeass lag :P
12:34:59 <SpComb> coop is the only way to play
12:35:07 <Celestar> except for the first 10 minutes when you wait for money to come in :P
12:35:33 <planetmaker> Dany0: it usually helps much better to ask a question than to pester someone to "answer" with a "Yes, I'm here"
12:35:36 <bondau> haha okay good, because another one of them wants to start an online ladder for it
12:35:38 <Eddi|zuHause> i should get my special friends list, i think
12:36:35 <Eddi|zuHause> "people who are on the wrong side of the von moltke scheme"
12:36:42 * planetmaker also usually ignores information-less ping requests
12:37:01 <planetmaker> err, what, Eddi|zuHause?
12:37:11 <Eddi|zuHause> which clearly this is a prime example of
12:38:42 <Celestar> wtf is the von Moltke Scheme?
12:39:03 <Dany0> planetmaker: I asked the question already
12:39:30 <Dany0> Eddi|zuHause: do you know unlimited detail technology?
12:39:33 <MINM> I googled, but got nothing meaningful.
12:39:48 <Eddi|zuHause> Celestar: von moltke was a prussian general who divided his soldiers into 4 categories. intelligent/active, intelligent/lazy, stupid/lazy and stupid/active
12:39:49 <MINM> most people call it 'analog'
12:39:51 *** TheMask96 has joined #openttd
12:39:54 <planetmaker> Dany0: that's also hardly a meaningful question
12:40:57 <planetmaker> he... I never heart of that, Eddi|zuHause :-)
12:40:59 <Eddi|zuHause> where intelligent/active would become great generals, intelligent/lazy good officers, stupid/lazy good foot soldiers, and stupid/active you should stay clear of, because they distract everybody else from doing real work
12:41:54 <Celestar> I'm assuming the distribution was about 5%, 10%, 30%, 55% ?
12:41:55 <MINM> I suppose you call stupid/active the wrong side?
12:43:18 <Eddi|zuHause> Celestar: i don't have statistics, but about 1%, 10%, 70%, 19% would be my guess. depends on which group you look at, and where your "average" is
12:44:09 <Eddi|zuHause> or 80%/9%, would still be bad enough
12:44:41 <Eddi|zuHause> that would mean around 1 stupid/active person to distract 1 intelligent/lazy person from doing their work
12:44:57 <Eddi|zuHause> meaning only 2% of people have the chance to bring civilization forward in any way
12:45:53 <MINM> that's why you use the stupid lazy to keep away the stupid active
12:46:10 <Eddi|zuHause> it doesn't quite work that way...
12:46:19 <Celestar> Eddi|zuHause: I'd have guessed that'd be about 5% .. but ok (=
12:46:43 <Eddi|zuHause> Celestar: 83% of statistics are made up on the spot
12:47:10 <MINM> eddi: that's why you use the encapsulating tactic.
12:47:48 <MINM> surround stupid-active with enough stupid-lazy, and the stupid-lazy will absorb any idiot actions for ya.
12:47:53 <Eddi|zuHause> MINM: stupid/lazy are the "don't care"s of that calculation (pun intended)
12:48:21 <MINM> I know, that's exactly how you use them
12:49:30 <Eddi|zuHause> MINM: the problem is that stupid/active people get promoted to higher positions before you realize that they really fall into that category
12:49:49 <Eddi|zuHause> MINM: at which point no stupid/lazy people are in the way
12:50:14 <Celestar> which book did he write that in?
12:50:28 <MINM> that's why one should always promote to a harmless spot first
12:50:54 <Celestar> there are no such spots.
12:50:59 <Celestar> everyone can do damage.
12:51:03 <Celestar> the question is only "how much"
12:51:53 <MINM> The chief commander of the home guard can do less damage than the chief commander of the atlantic navy
12:52:22 <Celestar> and I think the categorization of people works very well outside of the armed forces.
12:52:31 <Celestar> look at large corporations.
12:52:50 <Celestar> 90% of the middle and upper management positions are filled with stupid/active people.
12:52:53 <Eddi|zuHause> yes, that's why it is such a great scheme, actually
12:53:12 <Celestar> and the other 10% are basically busy cleaning up the mess that the 90% make.
12:53:32 <Eddi|zuHause> if the HR departments are aware of it, it makes hiring processes much better focus on the good candidates
12:53:45 <Celestar> where is in politics, 90% feels on the low side.
12:54:41 <MINM> anyone smart/active knows there are better positions to get, and the smart/lazy know to steer well clear from politics
12:55:10 <Celestar> Eddi|zuHause: assuming that the HR are not made of mostly stupid people, which they are, so you are in kind of a vicious circle there.
12:55:25 <Eddi|zuHause> Celestar: that's the problem, yes.
12:55:37 <Celestar> because HR people hate to employ someone who they feel is smarter.
12:56:35 *** Kurimus has joined #openttd
12:56:39 <MINM> I see it with my brother, who works somewhere on the higher lower echelons of a supermarket chain
12:57:07 <MINM> he's got more knowledge of the law than the legal department of the company.
12:57:24 <Celestar> you know. prime example last week. They wanted to move my workplace from the 4th to the 6th floor.
12:57:34 <MINM> and he doesn't even have his master yet
12:57:47 <Celestar> Needless to say it would be faster to haul the shit up there myself, but they hired a company.
12:57:59 <Celestar> and I had to mark stuff that I want moved. every fucking cable and everything.
12:58:12 <Celestar> when I came to my "new" workplace on Monday something was missing.
12:58:48 <Celestar> They forgot to move THE DESK. And apparently didn't have half a braincell to friggen notice.
12:58:58 <MINM> couldn't you just tell the movers to jack off and help only if you want something heavy moved?
12:59:03 <Celestar> they put the PC and monitor in front of the chair onto the floor.
12:59:19 <Celestar> nah I wasn't there when it happened :P
12:59:53 <MINM> well, actually, it's not the movers who are the morons here.
12:59:57 <Eddi|zuHause> but that's more likely a stupid/lazy person at work
13:00:10 <Celestar> so I'm not sure about the "active/lazy" scale, Eddi|zuHause but this is as stupid as it gets.
13:00:10 <MINM> for all they know the desk would come later from another place.
13:00:35 <MINM> the idiot occurrence here is that your management tells people to move your shit while you're not there
13:00:54 <Celestar> well are are not allowed to move it ourselves.
13:00:59 <MINM> seriously, people, who the fuck moves houses when you're on a vacation on the other side of the world?
13:01:08 <Celestar> because, if we trip on the way from A to B, we might break our neck.
13:01:31 <MINM> neither should one move desks while absent
13:01:36 <Eddi|zuHause> Celestar: the difference is that stupid/lazy people only just "not do" the work, while stupid/active people actually do "the wrong" kind of work. which is orders of magnitude more difficult to clean up
13:01:42 <Celestar> but that's not the problem. The problem is that the Keyboard i was carrying whilst might be broken and, as such, is not insured.
13:03:06 <Celestar> and while you can always hire another consultant, obtaining a replacement keyboard is a herculan task.
13:03:24 <MINM> celestar: what about you suing your company?
13:03:31 <MINM> I think that's what they're most afraid of
13:03:34 <Celestar> MINM: it's not my company :P
13:03:36 <Eddi|zuHause> that's bureaucracy at work for you
13:03:43 <Celestar> MINM: I'm just "external"
13:04:00 <Celestar> basically they paid me for sitting at a desk-less workplace :P
13:04:04 <MINM> remind me to never ever get a 9-5 desk job
13:04:29 <Eddi|zuHause> i'm more into 12-13 desk jobs
13:04:45 <MINM> are you implying what I think you're implying? 0-o
13:04:52 <Celestar> my company actually pretty much rocks.
13:05:08 <Celestar> just some of the customers are .. weird :P
13:05:22 <Dany0> planetmaker: I'm trying to explain eddi why is qubicle not a normal 3d editor and why it's so different from blender and so close to normal pixel-art
13:05:26 <MINM> what kind of job do you have, then?
13:05:32 <Eddi|zuHause> MINM: around here, people tend to rather have 7-15 jobs
13:05:35 <Dany0> Eddi|zuHause: so do you or do you not know Unlimited Detail Technology
13:05:52 <Celestar> I'm a tech consultant. Coding, Testing, etc etc
13:06:03 <Celestar> but the whole company is a group of nerds :D
13:06:24 <Eddi|zuHause> MINM: which is rather a bit early for my taste
13:06:45 <Celestar> i.e. having done a lot of openttd coding was more important to the BOSS during the interview than my grad student marks :P
13:07:10 <MINM> while getting up early sucks hairy bananas, I do know that my focus is MUCH better in the morning.
13:07:20 <MINM> after lunchtime Im usually a write-off.
13:07:22 <Eddi|zuHause> Celestar: practical experience is always more important to people
13:07:28 <MINM> it's either that or the graveyard shift
13:08:22 <Celestar> Eddi|zuHause: yeah, but we spent 3 hours (!) in the interview discussing openttd implementation details :P
13:08:52 <Dany0> Eddi|zuHause: can you finally answer please?
13:11:35 <MINM> Celestar: the best way to verify of somebody is competent during interview is to make 'em think up something on the spot
13:12:06 <MINM> EG write a quick piece of code, or, like our boss did, discuss implementation issues of OTTD
13:14:58 <Celestar> we had to write some code too
13:15:07 <Celestar> my interview took 7 hours.
13:15:33 <Korenn> a trusted reference makes things easier :)
13:15:35 <Eddi|zuHause> with a lunch break?
13:15:48 <Celestar> Eddi|zuHause: yeah. BBQ break actually (=
13:15:53 <Eddi|zuHause> that's a whole work day
13:18:08 <Dany0> Eddi|zuHause: I asked you a question!
13:18:22 <Dany0> Eddi|zuHause: AN HOUR AGO
13:18:39 <Dany0> Eddi|zuHause: could you mind, ANSWERING IT, probably? Thank you.
13:20:30 <b_jonas> Celestar: seven hour? nice
13:20:34 <MINM> do you happen to have any need for somebody like me in the company?
13:20:49 <michi_cc> There's also the Peter principle to promotions. People are usually promoted when they do a good job, but not when they do a bad job. Result: The highest management level people reach is the level where they don't do a good job anymore (otherwise they would've been promoted higher). As people are rarely demoted, most positions are filled with unsuitable people.
13:20:58 <Celestar> well minus the break
13:21:43 <Eddi|zuHause> michi_cc: yes, that's another problem
13:21:57 <Eddi|zuHause> michi_cc: but you can resolve that by promoting "sideways"
13:23:03 <Celestar> you solve that by sending people to retirement :P
13:23:08 <michi_cc> Yes, but the damage is often already done as it will take some time to notice somebody really is unsuitable.
13:24:35 <Eddi|zuHause> i.e. give them a position where they have less responsibility, but give them a higher wage, so it doesn't look like a demotion
13:24:53 <Eddi|zuHause> best combined with a longer title :)
13:25:23 <Dany0> can somebody please wake up Eddi|zuHause
13:25:45 <b_jonas> longer title doesn't make nerds happy. higher wage might help though.
13:26:41 <V453000> Dany0: I get the feeling that you are not cared about... just saying
13:28:50 * Celestar wakes Eddi|zuHause on Dany0'S behalf :P
13:29:11 <Eddi|zuHause> i told you my office hours :)
13:29:50 *** ChanServ sets mode: +o orudge
13:30:15 *** DayDreamer has joined #openttd
13:30:29 <V453000> it is past whatever. :P
13:38:07 *** supermop_ has joined #openttd
13:51:52 <Dany0> ok qubicle OpenTTD colour palette is done :)
13:57:36 <Celestar> orudge: how ya doing`
14:19:08 <Celestar> I wonder whether converting Tile to a union would cost performance
14:21:22 <b_jonas> depends on what it's a union of
14:21:30 <Celestar> so is it true the Dutch Railway abolished loos?
14:21:53 <Rubidium> Celestar: in some trains
14:22:01 <Rubidium> but apparantly they've done it in Germany as well
14:22:03 <b_jonas> Celestar: isn't that airplans doing that? making them payware at least
14:22:12 <b_jonas> s/airplans/airplanes/
14:22:14 <Celestar> Rubidium: well on suburban trains yes.
14:22:20 <Celestar> b_jonas: only Ryanair.
14:22:24 <Celestar> b_jonas: and that's not an airline
14:23:07 <Celestar> and yeah, I consider the S-Bahn situtation unacceptable in Germany tbh.
14:23:08 <Rubidium> Celestar: in the NL it's for non-intercities where most of the people are not more than 30 minutes on the train
14:23:22 <Celestar> unless the train is delayed.
14:23:28 <Rubidium> so that could be considered roughly the same as suburban trains
14:24:02 <Celestar> what's so fucking hard about building toilets into trains ffs
14:24:07 <Rubidium> and even then, only on the newer trains
14:24:34 <Rubidium> Celestar: "it breaks the aesthetics of looking through the train from front to back"
14:24:55 <Celestar> well PUT THEM ON THE SIDE
14:25:04 <Rubidium> it's also the reason why the electronics are cooled with air from track level instead of the top of the train
14:25:20 <Rubidium> i.e. why electronics are cooled with snow instead of cold air
14:25:46 <b_jonas> oh, the first world problems we have
14:26:12 *** Br33z4hSlut5 has joined #openttd
14:26:18 <Eddi|zuHause> that's what happens when uninformed people make design decisions
14:26:18 <Rubidium> Celestar: but I see no real problems putting one at either end of the train next to the driver cab
14:27:03 <Rubidium> unless that shits up the safety systems
14:27:12 <Eddi|zuHause> Rubidium: but the drivers cab must have transparent back so you can see the track
14:27:27 <Celestar> Eddi|zuHause: that's a nice feature.
14:27:32 <Rubidium> Eddi|zuHause: yeah...
14:27:41 <Rubidium> and then they have curtains to close
14:27:42 <Celestar> Eddi|zuHause: the BR403 and 406 have that. AND they have dunnies
14:27:53 <Rubidium> but I doubt they can close them fast enough to not see someone all over the windscreen
14:28:33 <Eddi|zuHause> Celestar: but you can't look all the way through an ICE3!!
14:28:34 <b_jonas> curtains? I don't think that works
14:29:03 <Eddi|zuHause> b_jonas: it can be made milky-intransparent by some electronic feature
14:29:51 <Celestar> Eddi|zuHause: who cares?
14:29:57 <Celestar> Eddi|zuHause: I wish they'd bring back compartments.
14:30:03 <Celestar> Eddi|zuHause: I hate the fucking "Großraumwagen"
14:30:19 <Celestar> and I don't see a reason why anyone could actually like them
14:30:21 <Eddi|zuHause> never had any issues with that, honestly
14:31:38 <Eddi|zuHause> you shouldn't use them with an agoraphobia, probably :)
14:32:08 <planetmaker> the compartments also suck as you constantly hit knees with the person whom you face
14:32:16 <Celestar> I use them rarely, because most of the time one of 3 things happens
14:32:20 <planetmaker> As such the "Großraum"-wagons are much better usable
14:32:23 <Celestar> a) The price in unacceptable
14:32:30 <Celestar> b) the schedule sucks
14:32:43 <Celestar> c) The train is horribly slow (i.e. Munich-Hamburg or Munich-Berlin)
14:33:10 <Eddi|zuHause> blame the person who put these damn mountains inbetween! :p
14:33:21 <Celestar> The Japanese have mountains too
14:33:41 <planetmaker> but they have dedicated high-speed tracks
14:33:44 <Eddi|zuHause> maybe they manage the NBS Nürnberg-Erfurt by 2017
14:33:56 <Celestar> planetmaker: so why don't we have them? because we suck?
14:34:14 <Rubidium> Celestar: in Japan those trains can go horribly slow as well
14:34:21 <Celestar> Rubidium: of course they can.
14:34:24 <planetmaker> Celestar: basically yes ;-)
14:34:26 <Eddi|zuHause> the japanese didn't have a division for 40 years
14:34:35 <Celestar> Rubidium: but the large cities are connected .
14:34:46 <Celestar> Eddi|zuHause: Munich and Hamburg were on the same side of the wall :P
14:34:46 <Eddi|zuHause> which incidently cuts exactly through that problematic route
14:34:59 <Dany0> guys I never understood one thing... can somebody explain me the nightly OpenTTD builds?
14:35:14 <Celestar> Eddi|zuHause: and Munich-Hamburg already has about 500km of "high-speed" rail in between and STILL takes about 5:45
14:35:29 <b_jonas> Dany0: what about them?
14:35:37 <Celestar> 4 hours is easily doable
14:35:43 <Rubidium> Celestar: is 2 million large? If so, then in Japan it isn't either
14:35:52 <Dany0> well last time I checked
14:35:55 <Celestar> WITHOUT dropping any intermediate stops
14:35:56 <Dany0> everyone could submit one
14:36:06 <Eddi|zuHause> Celestar: yes, but the shortest historic (pre-1945) route was via Leipzig-Berlin
14:36:07 <Dany0> at the time you were celebrating r10000
14:36:24 <planetmaker> Dany0: at every time only developers had commit access
14:36:26 <Eddi|zuHause> Celestar: the modern high speed tracks couldn't really change that
14:36:34 <Celestar> Eddi|zuHause: in 1939, the High-speed train from Munich to Stuttgart took 2:30. today, it's 2:23
14:36:43 <planetmaker> Dunno how it was at r10k. But they're automatically build by a compile farm
14:36:46 <Celestar> Eddi|zuHause: Berlin-Dresden was 1:42. Today it's 2:07.
14:37:05 <Dany0> well the last time I checked
14:37:06 <Rubidium> Celestar: of the 10 largest cities in Japan 3 are not connected to the Shinkansen
14:37:36 <Dany0> the problem was that every nightly build was supposed to have some new experimental features
14:38:02 <Dany0> and every nightly build was not sequentional
14:38:05 <planetmaker> no. A nightly simply is to be the snapshot of trunk as of that night
14:38:08 <Eddi|zuHause> Celestar: Berlin-Dresden has an additional stop in Berlin-Südkreuz nowadays
14:38:23 <Celestar> Eddi|zuHause: we're comparing ICE against a steam engine?!
14:38:31 <Celestar> Eddi|zuHause: Berlin-Südkreuz costs AT MOST 5 minutes.
14:38:34 <Dany0> I mean r28789 had experimental signaling, r28790 had support for ultra long trains
14:38:44 <Eddi|zuHause> Celestar: the steam train ran 160km/h on a regular basis
14:38:51 <Dany0> but you wouldn't find out until you've downloaded it
14:38:55 <Celestar> I thought it was even 175km/h.
14:39:07 <Eddi|zuHause> Celestar: top speed vs. planned speed
14:39:48 <Celestar> Rubidium: Hamburg isn'T connected, Munich isn't connected, Cologne is hardly connected, Berlin is mediocrely connected ...
14:39:49 <Rubidium> even between the two largest cities in Japan the fastest train has an average of 90 km/h
14:39:49 <Eddi|zuHause> Celestar: 175 = 160+10%
14:40:21 <Celestar> Rubidium: the largest cities are Tokyo and Osaka :P
14:40:33 <Rubidium> Celestar: Tokyo and Yokohama
14:40:48 <Celestar> Rubidium: well .. rofl :P
14:41:12 <Dany0> wow that's how long I've been around?
14:41:42 <Rubidium> wow, never seen that photo ;)
14:42:27 <Celestar> the train from Toyko to Yokohama takes 18 minutes
14:43:09 <Eddi|zuHause> hey, in 18 minutes i'm not even at the next train station
14:43:31 <Dany0> hey I remember it was promised in nightly builds that there will be multi-leve bridges
14:43:45 <Rubidium> in 18 minutes I'm 2 stations further... but bike
14:43:48 <Dany0> one step before we'd have the locomotion-like air tracks
14:44:16 <planetmaker> did you play and find out?
14:44:27 <Eddi|zuHause> well, Halle-Nietleben could be doable in 18 minutes
14:44:36 * Rubidium wonders who promised that to Dany0
14:44:56 <Dany0> planetmaker: I saw a screen, but I couldn't find the nightly build the post was talking about
14:47:46 <Dany0> what f*ck just happened? 1. wasn't meant to this tab 2. double post?
14:48:05 <planetmaker> I currently feel like doing so. yes
14:48:47 <Dany0> planetmaker: said the guy who says 'cubicle'
14:49:04 <Rubidium> what's wrong with cubicles?
14:49:33 <Dany0> there is no such thing as cubicle in this sense
14:49:42 <TrueBrain> yeah; please not this again :(
14:49:47 <Dany0> it's called voxel, and it's not even a cube!
14:50:05 <planetmaker> I guess I'll follow eddi's example for noise control
14:50:48 <Dany0> Rubidium: what's your problem?
14:51:02 <Dany0> TrueBrain: do you remember multi-leveled bridges?
14:51:37 <Dany0> and more height levels?
14:51:55 <planetmaker> random highlights for random people. Today for free... :S
14:52:03 <planetmaker> oh. on random topics, of course
14:52:09 <TrueBrain> planetmaker: normally I have to apy for it :P
14:52:25 <Dany0> what are you talking about now?
14:52:32 <TrueBrain> planetmaker: pay :P
14:52:39 <TrueBrain> be creative with letters :)
14:52:46 * Rubidium is happy to not work in a voxel. Would feel too constrained I guess, and probably not very good for communication
14:52:59 <TrueBrain> Rubidium: I rather talk with vocals :D
14:53:08 <planetmaker> not my creative day today... Much boring work was to be done...
14:53:20 <Dany0> Rubidium: if you'd work in a voxel you'd be smaller then an atom
14:53:39 <planetmaker> TrueBrain: acapella?
14:53:40 <Dany0> this would need compensations, like removing your brain... whole body?
14:53:51 <TrueBrain> planetmaker: for example :)
14:54:01 <Rubidium> but you just said it's not cubicles but voxels
14:54:09 <Rubidium> for some reason I'm getting confused here
14:57:01 <Rubidium> 16:49 < Rubidium> what's wrong with cubicles?
14:57:01 <Rubidium> 16:49 < Dany0> it's not cubicles
14:57:01 <Rubidium> 16:49 < Dany0> it's called voxel, and it's not even a cube!
14:57:29 <Rubidium> sorry, but I can only deduce from that, that what I thought to be cubicles are to be called voxels
14:57:44 *** Biolunar has joined #openttd
14:58:21 <Dany0> no some... idiots thought the voxels in qubicle are called cubicles
14:58:29 <Dany0> so no one remembers the multi-level bridges?
14:58:45 <TrueBrain> oeh, I am promoted to everyone :D:D
14:59:34 <TrueBrain> [16:51] <Dany0> TrueBrain: do you remember multi-leveled bridges?
14:59:36 <TrueBrain> [16:58] <Dany0> so no one remembers the multi-level bridges?
14:59:41 <TrueBrain> so I am everyone :D I feel to proud :)
14:59:56 <Rubidium> TrueBrain: everyone agrees ;)
15:00:14 <Dany0> TrueBrain: everyone can read it, also "I feel to proud"
15:02:06 * Rubidium would be very interested in the reasoning the developers had to remove multi-leveled bridges from trunk (assuming they ever were in trunk)
15:02:07 <planetmaker> TrueBrain: we all knew you're our omni-present almighty god(dess) of ... <enter something here>
15:02:40 <Dany0> who are the main developers?
15:03:38 <planetmaker> you read the changelog Dany0
15:03:47 <planetmaker> it's not feeding time for illiterate and lazy
15:04:12 <Dany0> planetmaker: yeah where is the changelog then?
15:04:17 <Dany0> planetmaker: non-stable
15:04:29 <Rubidium> in any case, I usually see DorpsGek or CIA-6 in the commit messages on IRC
15:04:52 <TrueBrain> so they are to blame? :D
15:05:12 <TrueBrain> always knew CIA had a hidden agenda
15:06:38 <DorpsGek> but I don't want to be alone
15:07:04 <Dany0> is anyone beside DorpsGek? or it's just a bot with pre-recorded messages?
15:07:25 <DorpsGek> did you just call me a bot? Rude ...
15:08:05 <Dany0> DorpsGek: you're a bot and have no life
15:08:11 <Dany0> DorpsGek: now, complete the turing test
15:08:16 <peter1138> if your voxels are represented by a 2d representation of a cube on a screen, is it so wrong to call it a cube?
15:08:30 *** Dany0 was kicked by DorpsGek (Warning 1. Don't insult me.)
15:08:54 <Dany0> that's an insult? or even a reason to kick?
15:08:59 <Dany0> DorpsGek: that was uncalled for
15:15:11 <peter1138> maybe you should try voxelizing a flat sprite?>
15:18:13 <Dany0> peter1138: are you kidding me?
15:18:39 <peter1138> in your video you took a sloped sprite and turn it into a flat voxel object
15:18:41 <Dany0> peter1138: Blood's 3d objects were made of entirel voxelized flat sprites
15:18:59 <Dany0> it's iso so you can't voxelize that easily
15:19:10 <Dany0> peter1138: and I've shown you voxelized sprites
15:19:23 <peter1138> i thought you said it was easier?
15:20:13 <Dany0> voxels are better then polygons yes
15:20:25 <Dany0> and they can't be harder
15:20:25 *** Prof_Frink has joined #openttd
15:20:33 <peter1138> but a polygon can represent a slope
15:20:34 <Dany0> it's a data/rendering/rasterization technique
15:20:46 <peter1138> voxels (on a fixed grid) can't easily do that
15:21:35 <peter1138> what i said "a flat sprite" i mean one of our tiles that is flat
15:22:24 <peter1138> animated gifs of a voxel object don't impress me
15:22:52 <Eddi|zuHause> # anotherone bites the dust
15:27:03 <Prof_Frink> peter1138 drives a voxel vectra.
15:33:02 <Dany0> you know what I could do
15:35:38 *** welshdragon has joined #openttd
15:36:05 <planetmaker> "could voxelize <whatever game not OpenTTD> is like totally off-topic here
15:36:35 <TrueBrain> planetmaker: voxels are offtopic here
15:37:13 <planetmaker> yeah.... I've not seen them made on-topic. Just buzz-talk about *could*
15:38:08 <TrueBrain> even if voxel-engines would be mainstream, it would be useless for OpenTTD ... like any other random OpenTTD3D talk we had/willhave :P
15:39:39 <Prof_Frink> TrueBrain: Add "| No Voxels |" to the topic?
15:39:59 <TrueBrain> Prof_Frink: it would make a very long topic tbh
15:40:56 <Yexo> | Web service partially offline <- is that still true?
15:41:08 <TrueBrain> who added it, and why did he not remove it?
15:41:11 * TrueBrain looks at planetmaker :)
15:41:12 <Prof_Frink> Or just add it to Dorpy, like the openttdcoop reminder.
15:41:48 <planetmaker> I really feel innocent :-)
15:41:56 <TrueBrain> you want me to consult backlogs? :P
15:42:13 <TrueBrain> no, I seriously don't know who did :P
15:42:14 <planetmaker> nah, could spoil my feeling of innocence
15:42:46 *** DorpsGek sets mode: +o planetmaker
15:42:50 <Prof_Frink> Forunately I only just connected.
15:42:51 *** planetmaker changes topic to "1.1.3 | Website: *.openttd.org (translator: translator, server list: servers, wiki: wiki, patches & bug-reports: bugs, revision log: vcs, release info: finger) | Don't ask to ask, just ask | 'Latest' is not a valid version | English only"
15:42:52 <Prof_Frink> -!- Topic set by planetmaker [~planetmak@101.haydn.openttdcoop.org] [Fri Sep 30 14:34:12 2011]
15:43:09 <TrueBrain> I was too lazy, I am sorry :D
15:43:24 <planetmaker> cmd+t did the trick ;-). k. +@op ;-)
15:43:37 *** DorpsGek sets mode: -o planetmaker
15:44:01 <glx> I think DorpsGek has a command for that too
15:44:18 <TrueBrain> last time planetmaker tried to battle it, and he failed horribly :P
15:44:22 <TrueBrain> forcing him to do a +o for it :D
15:44:55 <planetmaker> hm... why did dorpsget -o me?
15:45:04 *** DorpsGek sets mode: +o planetmaker
15:45:04 <TrueBrain> I am sure I had nothing to do with it
15:45:07 *** DorpsGek sets mode: -o planetmaker
15:45:20 *** DorpsGek sets mode: +o planetmaker
15:46:53 <glx> grr my script is broken for topic commands
15:47:32 <Dany0> TrueBrain: no voxels aren't off the topic here
15:48:27 * planetmaker wonders whether I should get my 2nd round of popcorn
15:48:36 <TrueBrain> I am getting hungry, hmm
15:48:45 <planetmaker> yes... but not for popcorn
15:48:52 <Dany0> if you think so you have no idea what voxels are
15:49:09 <Dany0> have any idea if an ARM build is coming up?
15:49:25 <Dany0> it's about the time to start, seriously
15:49:36 <TrueBrain> I am strongly start to think Dany0 is a bot ...
15:49:43 <TrueBrain> can we start a vote on that?
15:50:07 <Dany0> TrueBrain: what is the **** clue that gives you this non-sense thought? huh?
15:50:41 <Yexo> Dany0: if I were you I'd back off a bit
15:50:54 <Yexo> you've been made fun of more than enough for the day, and you don't even seem to know it
15:51:10 <Yexo> by continuining you're only making a fool of yourself
15:51:48 <Dany0> Yexo: well the mods should punish the people that are making fun of me
15:52:13 <Prof_Frink> The people making fun of you *are* the ops.
15:52:21 *** DorpsGek changes topic to "1.1.3 | Website: *.openttd.org (translator: translator, server list: servers, wiki: wiki, patches & bug-reports: bugs, revision log: vcs, release info: finger) | Don't ask to ask, just ask | 'Latest' is not a valid version | English only | test (glx)"
15:52:32 <TrueBrain> and mostly he is just making fun of himself, so that gets a bit tricky too ... ;)
15:52:36 *** DorpsGek changes topic to "1.1.3 | Website: *.openttd.org (translator: translator, server list: servers, wiki: wiki, patches & bug-reports: bugs, revision log: vcs, release info: finger) | Don't ask to ask, just ask | 'Latest' is not a valid version | English only"
15:52:42 <Prof_Frink> planetmaker: Get me some while you're there
15:53:01 <planetmaker> gladly, here you go, Prof_Frink
15:54:09 <Dany0> how about stop making fun of me and take my words ******* seriously?
15:54:27 <Yexo> a better attitude would help
15:54:39 <Dany0> I'm ***** trying to help you somehow, so far you're the most ***** unwelcome community I've been to for months
15:55:00 <Belugas> yo yo and a bottle of rum
15:55:02 <DorpsGek> Yexo: I don't recognize you.
15:55:03 *** DorpsGek changes topic to "1.1.3 | Website: *.openttd.org (translator: translator, server list: servers, wiki: wiki, patches & bug-reports: bugs, revision log: vcs, release info: finger) | Don't ask to ask, just ask | 'Latest' is not a valid version | English only | long test (glx)"
15:55:04 <TrueBrain> Yexo: authenticate :P
15:55:08 *** DorpsGek changes topic to "1.1.3 | Website: *.openttd.org (translator: translator, server list: servers, wiki: wiki, patches & bug-reports: bugs, revision log: vcs, release info: finger) | Don't ask to ask, just ask | 'Latest' is not a valid version | English only"
15:55:23 <TrueBrain> planetmaker: he is opped
15:55:32 <planetmaker> yeah... I need tea.
15:55:48 <TrueBrain> just DorpsGek refuses to copy those rights .. not sure why not, feels a bit mute
15:55:57 <planetmaker> Yexo: you could authenticate via hostmask to dorpsgek
15:56:10 <glx> just give it a wildcard mask :)
15:56:17 <TrueBrain> planetmaker: I still haven't discovered how that works :P
15:56:32 <peter1138> Dany0, so you want to use qubicle to draw sprites. well, here goes. there's nothing stopping you. enjoy.
15:56:32 <planetmaker> @help authenticate
15:56:33 <DorpsGek> planetmaker: Error: There is no command "authenticate".
15:56:38 <DorpsGek> planetmaker: (identify <name> <password>) -- Identifies the user as <name>. This command (and all other commands that include a password) must be sent to the bot privately, not in a channel.
15:56:44 <TrueBrain> planetmaker: don't spam please :)
15:56:49 <MINM> this all would have been solved a lot quicker with a irc network that actually has a proper op system installed >.<
15:57:14 <planetmaker> MINM: how doesn't this have?
15:57:16 <TrueBrain> Prof_Frink: please no :P
15:57:32 <peter1138> Dany0, you brought up qubicle as a way of making sprites. if you don't want to make sprites, why bring it up?
15:57:37 <Yexo> Dany0: you need to think about what you actually want to achieve. Using qubicles is nice, but whwat does it offer to OpenTTD?
15:57:39 <MINM> have you ever ben as far to go do look more like?
15:57:41 <Prof_Frink> or irc.ttdpatch.net maybe?
15:58:19 <Dany0> Yexo: it's not Qubicles fucking damn this!
15:58:35 <Dany0> are you all just this ignorant or simply dumb?
15:58:39 <TrueBrain> Dany0: once again I warn you: dial it down, don't talk like this
15:58:40 <Belugas> fucking? he said fucking??
15:58:42 <Dany0> do you even listen to me?
15:58:49 <__ln__> would it be too old-fashioned for an op to kick directly, without delegating it to a bot?
15:58:51 <peter1138> Dany0, have you tried temper management?
15:58:52 <Yexo> Dany0: I'm not drawing any sprites at all, and I don't really care how they're drawn
15:58:54 <TrueBrain> stop calling people names, stop being arogant .. we have been over this Dany0
15:59:23 <Belugas> hey, i want some popcorn too!
15:59:26 <__ln__> Dany0: how old are you?
15:59:36 <Yexo> voxels, qubicles, whatever, taht was not my point. The point was: whatever you want to introduce, what does it offer to OpenTTD?
15:59:39 <MINM> __ln__: I think the old adage "why simple when it can be done hard" applies here
15:59:40 <Prof_Frink> Belugas: planetmaker's got a bucketful
16:00:07 <planetmaker> yup. Here's also a bucket for Belugas :-)
16:00:16 <Dany0> Yexo: it's not some kind of new technology
16:00:35 <Yexo> that is again besides the point
16:00:38 <Dany0> Yexo: I am not trying to sell anything, and it's not some magic stuff like unlimited detail technology proclaims
16:00:59 <TrueBrain> Dany0: what Yexo is trying to ask you, how would voxels help OpenTTD in any way
16:01:06 <TrueBrain> you are aware OpenTTD is not a 3D game, right?
16:01:10 <Dany0> you can not call it qubicles, you can not call it whatever
16:01:24 <planetmaker> Then why do frigging behave so? And why do you want to sell it to everyone whether s/he draws sprites or not? And to everyone whether s/he wants to listent to or not?
16:01:32 <Yexo> How do voxels help OpenTTD in any way?
16:01:39 <TrueBrain> you keep coming here talking about voxels like it is _the_ magic word to fix all shit, but ... how does it help OpenTTD?
16:02:13 <planetmaker> which is... what I asked like 6 hours ago and got no answer to ;-)
16:02:15 <Dany0> the whole point is that for 32bpp sprites you're using blender
16:02:24 <Yexo> some people are, others are not
16:02:25 <Dany0> planetmaker: yes you got you were just too ignorant to read it
16:02:53 <Dany0> blender sucks, it's hard to learn and long to render
16:02:57 <TrueBrain> how artist do their work, they do their work
16:02:58 <Prof_Frink> TrueBrain: You get to use Mirage Tanks to fool the local authorities into thinking you've planted trees.
16:03:01 <planetmaker> I only saw "better than blender" which is hardly an argument
16:03:03 <TrueBrain> OpenTTD has nothing to do with any of that
16:03:03 <Dany0> qubicle is easy to learn and instatn to render
16:03:10 <glx> TrueBrain: let's talk about XML then :)
16:03:11 <Yexo> but apparently the people using it already know blender
16:03:20 <Yexo> otherwise they wouldn't be able to make any sprites
16:03:21 <Dany0> it's easier to create sprites because you don't have to do the same work 19 times
16:03:56 <Yexo> and if you want to push voxels for new artists you have the wrong audience here
16:04:11 <Yexo> the majority of the people here are either coding or playing openttd, not drawing graphics
16:04:12 <Dany0> Yexo: you didn't get it
16:04:19 <Dany0> Yexo: there is no pushing voxels for new artists
16:04:34 <TrueBrain> Dany0: if 5 developers don't get you, you might be the one that don't get it?
16:04:38 <Yexo> than why do you keep bringing it up?
16:04:44 <MINM> ..can't tell if just stupid or troll.
16:04:53 <MINM> in case of doubt, troll!
16:05:02 <Dany0> you're talking oranges and I don't know, badgers
16:05:20 <Mazur> If a Troll is here, the bridge must be open.
16:05:30 <Dany0> Yexo: there is no bringing it up
16:05:36 <TrueBrain> Dany0: lets make it more clear to you: we, as OpenTTD, do not care how 32bpp sprites are made. Some peopl euse Blender, some use paint, some might use voxel engines (once they are created, if ever)
16:05:54 <TrueBrain> so, why keep bringing up voxels in this channel and proclaiming it is the all-fixing? How does OpenTTD benefit?
16:06:00 <Dany0> TrueBrain: there is no using voxel engines
16:06:39 <Dany0> TrueBrain: making sprites from blueprints is easier
16:06:48 <TrueBrain> again, how does OpenTTD benefit?
16:06:53 <Eddi|zuHause> <Belugas> hey, i want some popcorn too! <-- sorry, popcorn ran out two days ago
16:06:58 <TrueBrain> you keep skipping that part
16:07:09 <Mazur> Making sprites with a tool I know and can use is easiest.
16:07:21 <Mazur> Also, I like hte tiool to also exist.
16:07:24 <planetmaker> TrueBrain: wrong. You're also just ignorant and don't read. I'm quite sure ;-)
16:07:32 <Dany0> peter1138: so making sprites from blueprints is easier
16:07:37 <Dany0> TrueBrain: already said that
16:07:44 <TrueBrain> (a fun fact btw, most voxel engines atm use blender, which generates a 3D model, which is converted to a voxel engine, because it is too hard to make voxel models from scratch :P)
16:07:49 <TrueBrain> Dany0: so you keep saying, but I never read the answer
16:07:57 <peter1138> Dany0, great. go ahead and make sprites from blueprints then
16:08:04 <Dany0> TrueBrain: this is not true, and how the hell did you come up with this
16:08:22 <Dany0> TrueBrain: "it's easier make sprites" get it?
16:08:36 * Prof_Frink makes a model of a blender using vauxhalls
16:08:40 <TrueBrain> Dany0: clearly you have no clue who you are talking too; that is okay, but I am telling you: OpenTTD does not benefit from voxels. If you want people to use voxels (in what-ever way) go talk to people who are interested
16:08:45 <Yexo> Dany0: "we, as openttd team, do not make sprites", get it?
16:09:07 <Dany0> so why do you even discuss this if it's not of your interest?
16:09:18 <TrueBrain> because someone keeps bringing it up over and over and over
16:10:02 <planetmaker> which is why I suggested to post on this topic better in the graphics section of the forum. Which I already linked you to hours ago
16:10:12 <Dany0> I'm talking to people that want to make sprites easier or they don't like pixel art or they're bad at it or they wish they could make sprites using ms paint like tool but in 3d
16:10:18 <planetmaker> as there *might* be some interested audience if it really can help producing sprites
16:10:30 <Yexo> Dany0: those people are not here
16:10:41 * TrueBrain looks in every corner of #openttd
16:10:49 <Dany0> Yexo: and you tell me this NOW?
16:11:04 <Yexo> <Yexo> the majority of the people here are either coding or playing openttd, not drawing graphics <- I already did so before
16:11:23 <Terkhen> I'm quite certain you have been told to post at the NewGRF development subforum a few times already
16:11:37 <TrueBrain> he has been told here too a few times; but as long as he understands it now :)
16:11:37 <Prof_Frink> Yexo: You missed "or just fishing for trolls".
16:11:43 <Dany0> planetmaker: there's already a topic on the graphics section already
16:12:00 <Dany0> planetmaker: I'm just waiting for a qubicle update so that I can render openttd-valid sprite
16:12:11 <Dany0> Yexo: you said majority
16:12:18 <Dany0> Yexo: I'm obviously talking to minority
16:12:36 <glx> other are bots and idlers
16:12:40 <Yexo> look, there are 109 people in this channel currently. I can hardly guarantee that none of them is drawing sprites
16:12:47 <Dany0> and since there are ~5-7 guys answering me most of the time on what 50 people channel I thought I was talking to the minority
16:13:04 <Dany0> Yexo: see I was counting on that
16:13:13 <Dany0> so anyone not related to this, out!
16:13:52 <Yexo> in #openttd.artists is everyone you need to talk to
16:14:10 <glx> oh there's a dedicated chan ?
16:14:12 <Dany0> Yexo: now this... this you tell me now?
16:14:28 <Eddi|zuHause> glx: that better be empty :p
16:15:17 <Prof_Frink> Yexo: Or maybe #openttd.vauxhalls
16:15:47 <TrueBrain> right; out of popcorn, time to make some real food :)
16:16:12 <Dany0> Prof_Frink: there is no vauxhalls, you clearly don't make the splendor of your name
16:16:59 <Prof_Frink> Hmm, Dany0 seems to have confused me with someone that makes sense.
16:18:01 *** welshdragon has joined #openttd
16:28:55 <Xaroth> TrueBrain: stop hurting your desk!
16:29:32 <planetmaker> Xaroth: but it really does hurt. I even feel the pain here it radiates
16:29:56 <Xaroth> my desk is sobbing from all the desk violence it has to witness..
16:30:35 <Prof_Frink> If you're going to headdesk, do it properly. Run into a wall.
16:30:48 <Xaroth> then it's headwall, not headdesk
16:31:50 <Prof_Frink> No, more entirebodywall
16:34:42 <Eddi|zuHause> it's a standard how to represent checklists in XML
16:34:50 <Eddi|zuHause> checklists as in:
16:34:57 <Eddi|zuHause> [ ] cleaned dishes
16:35:10 <Dany0> >> glad not to live in the USA
16:35:39 <Xaroth> Eddi|zuHause: at least it's XML-based, so it can't be wrong!
16:36:09 <Dany0> reading it takes way too long
16:36:10 * Xaroth thinks Dany0 doesn't know how to use /me ..
16:36:24 *** sla_ro|master has joined #openttd
16:36:29 <TrueBrain> Xaroth: stop hurting me!
16:36:30 <Dany0> Xaroth: if I'd use /me I'd say is glad...
16:37:01 <Xaroth> then why use >> .. it adds nothing to your sentence but bloat..
16:37:20 <Xaroth> and the whole point of XML is that it remains humanly readable..
16:38:35 <Eddi|zuHause> XML is about as useful as Voxels :p
16:38:49 <TrueBrain> Eddi|zuHause: he, don't comapre those two! Like oranges with peaches!
16:39:16 *** welshdragon has joined #openttd
16:40:07 <Eddi|zuHause> TrueBrain: all these are things i could never get as a child?
16:40:26 <Dany0> Eddi|zuHause: about as fuck you too
16:40:26 <Prof_Frink> Extensible Voxel Markup Language...
16:40:38 <Dany0> Prof_Frink: and you know what? you too
16:40:47 <Xaroth> Dany0: no need to be rude
16:40:48 <TrueBrain> Dany0: final warning. Stop calling names.
16:41:20 <Yexo> you're in a good mood today TrueBrain
16:41:26 <Yexo> I didn't expect another warning :P
16:41:27 <TrueBrain> Yexo: yeah, it surprises me too :)
16:41:28 <Dany0> you treat me this way? I treat you this way
16:41:35 <TrueBrain> @kban Dany0 fair enough
16:41:35 *** DorpsGek sets mode: +b *!5ab27afe@ircip2.mibbit.com
16:41:36 *** Dany0 was kicked by DorpsGek (fair enough)
16:41:57 <TrueBrain> I couldn't even be bothered adding a timestamp ...
16:42:05 <Yexo> did he ever grasp that TrueBrain was actually an op here?
16:42:29 <TrueBrain> if he can't be arshed to look up who developers of OpenTTD are, I can't be arshed to tell him
16:42:42 <Prof_Frink> TrueBrain: Are you drunk?
16:42:49 <TrueBrain> Prof_Frink: rarely; why?
16:43:01 <MINM> drunk with power, perhaps
16:43:02 <TrueBrain> [18:42] <Dany0> why ban?
16:43:05 <Prof_Frink> You're shlurling your schpeech
16:43:05 <Xaroth> that would imply he drinks :o
16:43:06 <TrueBrain> how to reply to that ...
16:43:24 <MINM> TrueBrain: /ignore *dany0* all
16:43:38 <Yexo> TrueBrain: "you treat me this way? I treat you this way"
16:43:48 <TrueBrain> all good suggestions :D
16:44:18 <Prof_Frink> Unless you've got the stab-in-the-face-over-IP plugin
16:44:26 <TrueBrain> ordered it, but it hasn't come in yet :P
16:44:48 <Eddi|zuHause> does that have an RFC yet?
16:44:51 <TrueBrain> ugh ... only so much I can take of the: USE VOXELS! .. there isn't even software yet to draw in voxel space ..
16:44:53 <TrueBrain> well, we have Minecraft :P
16:46:21 <Prof_Frink> In Europe, Voxels are called Opels. Opal Fruits are now called Starburst. Starburst was what Moya did in Farscape. My brain is a weird place. Plaice is a fish.
16:46:37 <Xaroth> you're confused with Vauxhalls, Prof_Frink :P
16:46:42 <TrueBrain> ah, he was upset Prof_Frink and Eddi|zuHause made fun of voxels
16:46:51 <TrueBrain> seems to make him think it is a card-blanc to start being rude
16:46:57 <Prof_Frink> Xaroth: Same difference.
16:47:19 <Eddi|zuHause> (i was actually being semi-serious)
16:51:01 <TrueBrain> I am not allowed to paste an url here, as it would be rude, but pastebins are public these days ... don't know what that is about ...
16:54:34 <z-MaTRiX> santa-clause is here
16:54:35 <TrueBrain> you just check your PMs silly mister Xaroth :P
16:56:01 <Prof_Frink> What, David Cameron's got involved?
16:56:36 <TrueBrain> who is David Cameron? :)
16:56:47 <TrueBrain> and what part of him got involved? (the 's)
16:57:06 <TrueBrain> or did you mean to type gut? :P
16:57:35 <Prof_Frink> You don't want my guts to get involved.
16:57:44 <TrueBrain> no, David Cameron's! :P
16:58:30 <Prof_Frink> Ah, sanity. Never was that keen on it.
17:01:22 <DorpsGek> TrueBrain: Error: *!5ab27afe@* is not in #openttd.
17:01:30 *** DorpsGek sets mode: +o TrueBrain
17:01:47 *** TrueBrain sets mode: +b *!5ab27afe@*
17:01:57 <TrueBrain> @kick Dany0 a ban is still a ban
17:01:58 *** Dany0 was kicked by DorpsGek (a ban is still a ban)
17:02:00 *** DorpsGek sets mode: -o TrueBrain
17:02:07 <TrueBrain> mibbit as multiple access points these days
17:02:41 <TrueBrain> next he connects with mIRC I guess :P
17:02:49 <TrueBrain> being abusive verbally
17:03:08 <z-MaTRiX> because not got answer?
17:03:34 <planetmaker> didn't get the answer he liked
17:03:41 <TrueBrain> did he asked anything?
17:03:50 *** TheMask96 has joined #openttd
17:03:55 <planetmaker> yes. whether eddi knows some obscure stuff
17:04:08 <TrueBrain> owh, and something about bridges
17:04:11 <TrueBrain> no clue what it was about
17:04:26 <z-MaTRiX> i remember once i read something about the game perspective angle
17:05:37 <z-MaTRiX> but not reading back ;<
17:07:07 <z-MaTRiX> why dont peoply usually use the chat function in mulktiplayer?
17:07:16 <z-MaTRiX> seems like if they dont even know about it
17:09:03 <Xaroth> TrueBrain: banning on nickname probably works best against low-IQ people :P
17:09:22 <TrueBrain> Xaroth: on IP works better ;)
17:09:36 <Xaroth> granted mibbit doesn't do magics :P
17:11:45 <z-MaTRiX> and realnameban for 1337 lamz0r bots
17:15:17 *** HerzogDeXtEr has joined #openttd
17:21:16 *** HerzogDeXtEr has joined #openttd
17:32:35 *** HerzogDeXtEr has joined #openttd
17:33:10 <Eddi|zuHause> planetmaker: do we really need the cets.gfx.dep run?
17:33:39 <planetmaker> we don't need that, if you care to not re-build on png file changes
17:33:50 *** welshdragon has joined #openttd
17:34:02 <planetmaker> i.e. it gives the the dep on all image files
17:34:25 <Eddi|zuHause> especially: must that really be a separate run
17:34:36 <planetmaker> technically it's needed
17:35:09 <planetmaker> it fails to work properly if you make it not a separate run
17:35:41 <Eddi|zuHause> it's taking really long, and i think it does many things needlessly twice
17:36:48 <planetmaker> Eddi|zuHause: removing that basically would mean to skip using the makefile at all and use a brainless build-script which builds everything unconditionally
17:36:48 <Eddi|zuHause> planetmaker: and in 99% of all cases it suffices to depend on "find -iname '*.png'"
17:37:18 <planetmaker> do you write 99% correct code or prefer 100% correct?
17:38:03 <Eddi|zuHause> planetmaker: but what speaks against stripping the dependencies out of the "real" nml compilation, instead of calling nml twice?
17:38:37 <planetmaker> it's calling nml in dep check mode
17:38:56 <Eddi|zuHause> yes. but that takes needlessly long
17:39:29 <planetmaker> as said: you can basically kill dep check and use a brainless build script...
17:39:41 <Eddi|zuHause> that's not what i'm saying
17:39:54 <planetmaker> it's effectively the result of what you advocate
17:40:03 <Eddi|zuHause> no, you miss my point
17:40:45 <Eddi|zuHause> i'm saying instead of "(nmlc dep-check) && (nmlc compile)" call "nmlc (dep-check & compile)"
17:40:57 <planetmaker> and I say: that can fail
17:42:34 <Eddi|zuHause> planetmaker: a dep check is practically useless if it makes compiling twice as long
17:45:38 <TrueBrain> hmm, you remind me I should add all those extra tools we have in /extra to the compilefarm ....
17:45:49 <TrueBrain> (don't know why, but you two reminded me of that :P)
17:46:31 <planetmaker> Eddi|zuHause: it fails as soon as the png itself is generated
17:46:54 <planetmaker> at that stage you need to know which pngs need generation prior to actually building the grf
17:46:57 <appe> what does && mean in code terminology?
17:47:10 <planetmaker> firs do A && if A then do B
17:47:30 <planetmaker> (in terms of bash syntax in this context)
17:47:58 <Eddi|zuHause> appe: A && B means "run A, and if A terminates successfully, run B"
17:48:04 <TrueBrain> so it means 'and' ;)
17:48:30 <Eddi|zuHause> appe: not to confuse with "A & B" which means "run A and B in parallel"
17:48:32 <TrueBrain> any sane language tries to evaluate left first, if true, then right :)
17:49:01 <TrueBrain> Eddi|zuHause: is that valid (bash-wise?)
17:49:13 <TrueBrain> A& forks A, but having a 'B' behind it
17:49:25 <Eddi|zuHause> & works like a separator, same as ;
17:49:27 <TrueBrain> A &; B I can understand :)
17:49:40 <Eddi|zuHause> A &; B is a syntax error
17:49:45 <TrueBrain> Eddi|zuHause: kewl :D
17:49:47 <Eddi|zuHause> cannot have empty statements
17:49:49 <TrueBrain> learn something new every day :D
18:02:01 <MINM> truebrain: any sane /western/ language, yes
18:03:42 <TrueBrain> I was talking about imperitive languages :D
18:04:42 <TrueBrain> 3rd time is the charm
18:06:47 <TrueBrain> I hate my own typing sometimes :)
18:07:46 <MINM> my typing is allright, I suppose, i just have some odd corners in my mind which still think 'definitely' is spelled with an a, for example :P
18:08:37 <planetmaker> yeah... like spelling of alright ;-)
18:09:55 <__ln__> MINM: 'alright' is spelled with one l.
18:10:08 <__ln__> oh, pm noticed that already
18:12:51 <MINM> I blame that one on my not being a native speaker :P
18:13:49 <__ln__> that's a very bad excuse, because native speakers usually spell worse than non-natives.
18:13:51 <TrueBrain> it is a nice way of proving your point I guess ;)
18:15:22 <planetmaker> gotta love it: "setup found that your system has 2GB of memory. The programme needs 128MB of memory. The game might run slow or instable. Do you want to continue?"
18:16:11 <planetmaker> err.. Heroes of Might and Magic
18:16:15 <__ln__> it only becomes very lolz if it refuses to install because of that.
18:16:25 <planetmaker> it allows to continue install. Fortunately
18:16:54 <TrueBrain> and your computer only has 2GB of memory?!
18:16:55 <Terkhen> well, games do strange stuff in wine :P
18:17:11 <TrueBrain> can you start Firefox at all?
18:17:13 <planetmaker> it was quite a lot 4 years ago for a laptop
18:17:25 <Terkhen> probably, as long as he does not use more than one tab
18:17:39 <planetmaker> that's not really an issue, tbh
18:18:14 <planetmaker> but yes, now I'd love more :-)
18:18:50 *** JVassie has joined #openttd
18:23:12 *** valhallasw has joined #openttd
18:23:56 <Prof_Frink> "Warning you have a 1 colour display; Lemmings requires a 256 colour display"
18:49:04 <planetmaker> hmpf... I told macports to upgrade wine. And not to upgrade virtually everything, including X and what-not-all
18:50:13 <planetmaker> bison, flex, perl, libiconv, libpng, openssl...
18:55:42 <TrueBrain> wine all depends on it :D
18:58:02 *** DorpsGek sets mode: +o TrueBrain
18:58:08 *** TrueBrain sets mode: -b *!5ab27afe@ircip2.mibbit.com
18:58:10 *** TrueBrain sets mode: -b *!5ab27afe@*
18:58:13 *** DorpsGek sets mode: -o TrueBrain
19:00:08 <TrueBrain> be happy I am in a good mood; otherwise I am sure DorpsGek would have kicked you with the mssage: +o :P
19:00:11 <TrueBrain> well, tbh, I am just lazy ;)
19:28:16 *** andythenorth has joined #openttd
19:35:33 <MINM> ...This is slightly stupid.
19:35:46 <MINM> also, that must have happened at quite a massive speed D:
19:36:52 <Eddi|zuHause> yeah, my thought as welll
19:37:16 <Eddi|zuHause> that does not look healthy at all
19:49:04 <michi_cc> Eddi|zuHause: Am I seeing right that we're out of articulated IDs now?
19:50:31 <Eddi|zuHause> so if we need any more, we need some magic shuffling, or we need the new articulated callback
19:51:07 <Eddi|zuHause> the magic shuffling is a little limited, because we can't adjust capacity by the "front".
19:51:21 <Eddi|zuHause> as _someone_ decided to make var 61 not available during callbacks :p
19:52:03 *** supermop_ has joined #openttd
19:53:33 <andythenorth> you only need <128 for trailing parts, right?
19:53:59 <Eddi|zuHause> and we are freshly out of those
19:54:00 <andythenorth> so you only need one ID for that?
19:54:26 <andythenorth> one trailing vehicle, and a ton of horrible conditional magic
19:54:43 <Eddi|zuHause> as i said, that would require var61 access during at least cb36
19:55:23 <Eddi|zuHause> *or* access to the "articulated front" as "related vehicle"
19:55:38 <andythenorth> why do you need that?
19:55:56 <Eddi|zuHause> length, capacity, loading speed, ...
19:56:46 <andythenorth> what's 82 reference for an articulated train?
19:56:57 <Eddi|zuHause> always the front engine of the train
19:57:26 <andythenorth> that's no help then :(
19:58:28 <Eddi|zuHause> hm... is the tt-forum's favicon broken or is that just me?
19:59:06 <andythenorth> and var 60 is insufficient :|
20:02:38 <Eddi|zuHause> var 63: access of variables of the first articulated part (self if not articulated).
20:03:13 <Eddi|zuHause> hm, "self" is probably a bad idea
20:03:23 <Eddi|zuHause> nah, should be fine
20:05:27 <Eddi|zuHause> then hurry up!! :)
20:08:34 <michi_cc> Pester frosch for GRFv8, maybe he has a patch for the related objects already as well :p
20:14:13 *** TWerkhoven[l] has joined #openttd
20:15:45 <andythenorth> smoke for ships is *clearly• a higher priority :P
20:18:25 * andythenorth has to visit google translate?
20:19:09 <Eddi|zuHause> no, just ignore that part :)
20:19:34 <andythenorth> looks like Newcastle to me, at a guess
20:20:15 <supermop_> nice set of points and Xs
20:23:44 <Eddi|zuHause> andythenorth: the phrase (roughly translated): "they are silly, these <people>" is a running gag from asterix
20:24:07 <andythenorth> Eddi|zuHause: that sounds familiar ;)
20:24:23 <Elukka> oh yay this site is back up
20:24:31 <Elukka> one of the more impressive model railroads i've seen
20:25:57 <andythenorth> my model train days are way behind me
20:26:07 <andythenorth> between pixels and lego...
20:26:17 <andythenorth> there's no cmd-z on real trains
20:26:24 <andythenorth> and it's a lot of faff
20:26:58 <andythenorth> lego has a very similar 'undo' feature to most software
20:30:48 <andythenorth> those tracks are not on the grid
20:31:07 <Prof_Frink> andythenorth: But doesn't replicate the satisfying nature of putting a Hornby engine on an otherwise Tri-Ang system.
20:31:21 * andythenorth had mostly Lima anyway
20:31:45 <andythenorth> Lego has much more spectacular crashes
20:32:05 <V453000> Elukka: wonderful, your doing?
20:32:33 <andythenorth> everyone is going to stop coding ttd and play with their trains :(
20:32:44 <Elukka> i linked the main page a few minutes back :P
20:34:31 <Elukka> "Perhaps Harold's crowning achievement was his scratch built Norfolk & Western RR Y6B. Harold labored over this locomotive for years. Everything, except the wheels, was made by Harold. We chided him for not painting it but he still had to add some more parts to it, he would say."
20:34:48 <Eddi|zuHause> Elukka: those welders did a crappy job there...
20:37:08 <Eddi|zuHause> (yes, i know that these are actually isolating sections)
20:39:29 <Elukka> how appropriate that my media player decides to play 'Spike in a Rail'
20:46:34 <V453000> andythenorth: too expensive hobby :P
20:46:50 <andythenorth> pixels are cheaper
20:47:06 <andythenorth> you can buy a very nice mac every year compared to the cost of doing trains properly
20:47:59 <andythenorth> lego trains are rinsingly expensive
20:48:14 <andythenorth> and I never take them apart to build different ones :(
20:48:20 <andythenorth> I just buy more :P
20:48:26 <andythenorth> this is where my money goes
20:49:04 <supermop_> one could at a point just start building things in real life -
20:49:14 <supermop_> furniture, houses, gardens,
20:51:09 <Elukka> surely buying a very nice mac every year is much more expensive
20:51:49 <andythenorth> I don't buy one every year :)
20:52:20 <andythenorth> fortunately the tech improvements are rather stuck for laptops
20:52:26 <andythenorth> so there's little reason to buy new ones
20:52:27 *** Brianetta has joined #openttd
20:53:04 <Eddi|zuHause> a mac one year, a macbook next year, an ipod next year, an iphone next year, an ipad next year, and by the next year, the mac is outdated again, starting the cycle all over again
20:53:13 <andythenorth> did I mention a spent all my money on Lego?
20:53:21 <andythenorth> the iphone sucks
20:53:54 *** welshdragon has joined #openttd
20:54:01 <MINM> I had a friend who had this really cool lego train set, and then I had three nephews who frequently pooled their lego trains
20:54:11 <MINM> and I was very jealous :(
20:54:26 <andythenorth> I don't have any pictures of 'all of it'
20:54:49 <andythenorth> most of it is in boxes due to the baby
20:55:09 <MINM> what do you think of the new flexible tracks?
20:55:42 <andythenorth> but a lot less boring than trying to make fixed shapes fit together
20:57:23 <V453000> andythenorth: jesus :D
20:59:04 <MINM> I still want to build a full-suspension tracked vehicle with lego some time. :P
20:59:09 <Elukka> Eddi|zuHause: you forgot the small preplanned incremental improvements or features they removed from the original so they can sell it a few months later at full price again
21:01:20 <MINM> possibly with a fully functioning drivetrain :D
21:01:32 <andythenorth> or actually, you know, making phone calls
21:01:35 <__ln__> well.. still.. can someone point me to a piece of pc hardware that is at least as small as a Mac Mini, and has at least the same specs, and is cheaper?
21:02:05 <andythenorth> almost certainly
21:02:12 <andythenorth> the mac mini is now insanely expensive
21:02:21 <andythenorth> when it was about £325 it was a bargain
21:02:36 <andythenorth> but apple are no longer interested in selling computers that are cheaper than an ipad :)
21:03:08 <MINM> well, who can blame them
21:03:20 <MINM> though personally Id price the pad down, not the mini up >.<
21:03:25 <andythenorth> none of this gets smoke fixed for ships :P
21:03:40 <andythenorth> what do I need to do?
21:03:46 <andythenorth> like, learn c++ or something?
21:04:55 <andythenorth> I tend to be good at copying + extending other people's ideas
21:05:23 <Elukka> personally i'm a fan of the desktop macs you can customize on their website and see how they charge humongous amounts of money for the exact same hardware that goes into a PC
21:05:36 <MINM> yeah, I always have prided myself over selfbuilds
21:06:02 <andythenorth> it's because you don't charge your time
21:06:19 <MINM> well, I was a bit younger then
21:06:20 <MINM> sadly I didn't have a lot of lego
21:06:31 <MINM> so I was forced to be creative.
21:06:51 <MINM> I did have (old school) knex, though, that stuff was glorious.
21:07:23 <MINM> looks less pretty, but you could easily build functioning vehicles with little (and cheap) parts
21:07:53 <andythenorth> and got...bigger
21:08:58 <MINM> I built vehicles a foot wide up till four or five long, (granted, Im counting trailers too)
21:09:54 <MINM> with fully functioning double steering front axles and all
21:10:24 <MINM> the only disadvantage of the stuff was that the joints are bendy, so beyond two feet or so it gets flexy
21:11:18 <MINM> mine didn't have fancy smooth decks, though
21:13:44 <andythenorth> probably expensive now - no longer available new
21:14:30 <MINM> meh, I wouldn't pay that much for something that Id cannibalize for parts after a couple of months
21:14:44 <andythenorth> the B-model for the excavator is really effective
21:15:14 <Elukka> that isn't any cheaper than model trains :P
21:15:31 <andythenorth> it's way *not* cheaper than model trains :P
21:16:04 <MINM> well, model trains mechanization is slightly simpler than making machines like that move :D
21:16:42 <Elukka> the valve gear on steam locomotive seems like it'd be a bit hard, even if it just moves with the wheels
21:20:17 <MINM> well, I meant more like the electric components and all
22:03:08 *** valhalla1w has joined #openttd
22:22:25 *** PierreW has joined #openttd
22:37:03 *** HerzogDeXtEr1 has joined #openttd
continue to next day ⏵
