IRC logs for #openttd on OFTC at 2011-08-13
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02:21:58 <pjpe> are there any plans for the future with openttd
02:22:01 <pjpe> like what's the next big step
02:22:21 <KittenKoder> Diagonal bridges!
02:22:30 <KittenKoder> Actually, I don't know, just a bit bored.
02:24:11 <pjpe> maybe they can make go to far end of station actually go to the far end of the station
02:25:32 <KittenKoder> LOL
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02:26:13 <KittenKoder> Multiple trains per station track ... but I think that's a bit hard to code.
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06:28:37 <andythenorth> norming
06:31:08 <KittenKoder> Morning.
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06:35:04 <planetmaker> moin
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07:57:52 <Terkhen> good morning
08:02:09 <andythenorth> hola
08:04:35 <KittenKoder> hihi
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08:33:02 <CIA-2> OpenTTD: frosch * r22738 /trunk/src/ (console_cmds.cpp network/network.cpp network/network_func.h): -Fix [FS#4722] (r21854): Setting company passwords via the GUI on servers (including starting a company with the default password) failed, so no client could join.
08:34:17 <Wolf01> 'moaning
08:34:57 <Terkhen> hi Wolf01
08:35:09 <Wolf01> because it is morning and I have an annoying pain on my shoulder
08:35:12 <Wolf01> :P
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09:56:11 <reikalusikka> has anybody here compiled openttd for the n900?
09:56:47 <planetmaker> @base 10 2 37
09:56:47 <DorpsGek> planetmaker: 100101
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10:43:12 <CIA-2> OpenTTD: frosch * r22739 /trunk/src/viewport.cpp: -Fix: The measurement tooltip is supposed to be hidden when not dragging an area.
10:44:12 <andythenorth> frosch123: how might industry be allowed to overbuild houses?
10:44:28 <CIA-2> OpenTTD: frosch * r22740 /trunk/src/viewport.cpp: -Fix [FS#4708]: Display the size of the leveled platform in the measurement tooltip of terraforming operations.
10:49:42 <andythenorth> planetmaker:
10:49:51 <andythenorth>
10:50:01 <planetmaker> :-)
10:51:34 <V453000> :D
10:51:42 <V453000> fuck :D
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10:52:05 <KittenKoder> LOL
10:53:12 <andythenorth> wrt
10:53:50 <KittenKoder> Nitpicking ... lame.
10:53:55 <frosch123> oh, there is a real highlight between two unimportant highlights :p
10:54:09 <frosch123> [12:44] <andythenorth> frosch123: how might industry be allowed to overbuild houses? <- imo not at all
10:54:32 <frosch123> though it is kind of done for the "build in towns" flag
10:54:48 <frosch123> but imo that behaviour of the flag is stupid :p
10:57:44 <andythenorth> frosch123: you think overbuilding is invalid?
10:57:48 <planetmaker> frosch123: do you think it's generally stupid that industries can be placed within a town?
10:57:52 <andythenorth> currently it's a half-assed situtation
10:58:02 <andythenorth> overbuilding is possible, but the newgrf control of it is limited
10:58:09 <frosch123> planetmaker: no, it is stupid that you have to build them on top of houses
10:58:20 <V453000> half-assed :DDD brilliant expression
10:58:23 <Alberth> planetmaker: it happens, also in RL, but they tend to move away
10:58:35 <planetmaker> but how could the game do that later, if that were not allowed?
10:58:46 <planetmaker> I agree it should not be a 'has to be' condition
10:59:15 <frosch123> well, it might be kind of ok-ish for randomly placed industries :)
10:59:31 <andythenorth> it should just be another newgrf tile check :P
10:59:43 <frosch123> but whenever someone asks "how can i fund a bank", the current answer is stupid :p
10:59:48 <Alberth> servicing the industry becomes a problem, so it will die due to lack of being serviced
10:59:51 <andythenorth> hmm
10:59:57 <andythenorth> there's always a fricking edge case
11:00:12 <andythenorth> in this case the edge case is whether the town allows player to bulldoze those houses
11:00:21 <andythenorth> for game generating a new industry that's no issue
11:00:30 <planetmaker> frosch123: imho the correct way would be "allow on houses" without impication "must be on houses"
11:00:33 <Alberth> andythenorth: otherwise it would be crystal clear and we would not have this discussion :)
11:00:58 <frosch123> planetmaker: but it should be very close to houses :)
11:01:22 * andythenorth wonders what town does in current case
11:01:29 <planetmaker> yes, like additonal town vicinity check. like r <= town_zone_5 or so
11:01:38 <KittenKoder> Frell. I think I got my parameter labels bassackwards.
11:01:55 <Alberth> :)
11:02:34 <andythenorth> current case pays no attention to town rating
11:03:14 <frosch123> well, that is usually no problem, as industries cannot be removed by players either :)
11:03:27 <planetmaker> but for funding?
11:04:01 <frosch123> well, maybe we should soften the current flag, to also allow non-house tiles when neighboured tiles are houses
11:04:12 <frosch123> i do not see need for a more detailed check
11:04:46 <frosch123> resp. there is also a "close by town, but no house" flag
11:05:28 <Terkhen> that would be nice, the current behaviour is annoying :P
11:06:21 <andythenorth> frosch123: I would rather move away from flags
11:06:29 <andythenorth> this should be a cb 28 / 2f check by newgrf author
11:06:44 <andythenorth> it makes for a confusing API to have both flags and cbs covering similar cases
11:07:08 <planetmaker> yes, but we cannot simply remove it :_9
11:07:18 <frosch123> oh, my earlier suggestion is void
11:07:35 <frosch123> INDUSTRYBEH_ONLY_NEARTOWN already means "may be house, but doed not need to"
11:08:29 <frosch123> andythenorth: just use that flag to allow houses
11:09:20 <frosch123> it will restrict distance of northern industry tile to town sign to 9 tiles (manhattan)=
11:09:55 <andythenorth> hmm
11:10:34 <planetmaker> frosch123: we might have a bug there...
11:10:53 <planetmaker> with bit 5 set I cannot build on houses
11:11:37 <andythenorth> have you come across languages / frameworks which mark things as deprecated, but leave them in place?
11:12:14 <frosch123> noai
11:12:41 <frosch123> planetmaker: works for toy shop
11:12:49 <planetmaker> yes. But not for FIRS
11:12:54 <planetmaker> e.g. builder's yard
11:13:03 <planetmaker> and it has that one set
11:15:50 <frosch123> works for me
11:16:01 <frosch123> using tip
11:16:08 <frosch123> of both nml and firs
11:16:33 <andythenorth> works for me too
11:16:38 <andythenorth> must have been the special flag issue
11:17:08 <planetmaker> hm
11:17:30 <frosch123> i can destroy a whole town to population 0 by funding builders yards :p
11:17:36 <andythenorth> still annoying
11:17:43 <andythenorth> we can't allow player to build wherever they like
11:17:50 <andythenorth> whilst also allowing house overbuild
11:18:38 <frosch123> it's kind of expensive, but ruins a online game with enough money :)
11:19:40 <frosch123> so the "one industry per town"-setting has some use :p
11:20:44 <planetmaker> hm, indeed works for me now
11:20:54 <planetmaker> Swedish people must have huge families though
11:21:13 <planetmaker> This one one-family house which remained in that town has a population of 155
11:21:49 <frosch123> well, if you bulldoze everything, they have to move somewhere?
11:21:56 <planetmaker> :-)
11:22:21 <planetmaker> They probably get cheap construction material now, with all that competition of the builder yards
11:22:45 <planetmaker> they still also have a petrol station, so getting it from there to their home is no issue, too
11:22:52 <Rubidium> probably each of them is owner of a builder yard
11:23:16 <frosch123> sounds like "oilrig increases passenger production by 100%"
11:27:58 * andythenorth re-reads own comment above
11:28:09 <andythenorth> I wasn't clear in what I meant :P
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11:33:04 <andythenorth> I'm not too bothered about griefing risk from allowing industries to overbuild houses
11:33:12 <Alberth> planetmaker: most live underground, so they are not bothered by industries destroying their home
11:33:26 <andythenorth> the griefing risk exists already
11:33:48 <andythenorth> issue is that mostly FIRS allows players to place industry wherever they like
11:34:04 <andythenorth> but for town industry, I have to use bit 3 or 5 on special flags
11:34:20 <andythenorth> which means I can't allow player to place anywhere
11:34:33 <andythenorth> whilst also guiding map-gen / in-game generator
11:35:02 <andythenorth> if that makes sense?
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11:50:38 <KittenKoder> In spite of a few pixel flaws and possible parameter error, I like my new track.
11:53:36 <KittenKoder> It's a good start to the sci-fi set I will work on soon.
11:54:23 <KittenKoder> andythenorth, are you still alert here?
11:54:33 <andythenorth> yup
11:54:45 <KittenKoder> What do you think of this idea?
11:55:17 <Terkhen> are you aware of the vactrain set?
11:56:30 <KittenKoder> 3 Maglev tracks based on the three most common concepts in sci-fi work. First is just basically monorail but with a more science fictiony look, second is the standard maglev, third is the more fantasy based "Tesla" track ....
11:56:52 <KittenKoder> Terkhen, I'm talking sci-fi, not insane speeds.
11:57:15 <KittenKoder> Back in the 60's science fiction trains were "up to 100 mph" ....
11:57:26 <planetmaker> he, having seen the talk about sci-fi immediately the vactrains came to my mind
11:57:33 <Terkhen> vactrains are also sci-fi :)
11:57:34 <planetmaker> KittenKoder: no
11:57:43 <Terkhen> you are talking about vintage sci-fi :P
11:57:45 <planetmaker> back in 1930 there were 160km/h trains
11:57:50 <planetmaker> in real life
11:58:52 <KittenKoder> Science fiction was more about the look. ;) The set will not be to make super fast insane speed trains, but to make trains comparable to that era with the look of what they dreamt.
11:59:30 <KittenKoder> Terkhen, exactly.
12:01:14 <KittenKoder> Science fiction in the earlier eras did not have as much science in them, depending on the author. Lovecraft sci-fi, for instance, was a lot of transdimensional fantasy, purely aesthetic. Asimov however was far more science based, he even had some actual train concepts in one of his Opuses.
12:01:44 <planetmaker> asimov had a strong science background after all
12:01:49 <KittenKoder> Very much so.
12:01:55 <planetmaker> being later a professor in biology
12:02:11 <KittenKoder> If you read his Opus books he actually explains his theories used in his fictional books.
12:02:20 <planetmaker> I know. I read them all :-P
12:02:31 <KittenKoder> ^_^ Yay, another Asimov reader.
12:02:45 <KittenKoder> I idolize him a bit too much, being a huge fan of real AI.
12:03:26 <KittenKoder> It was my childhood dream to be one of those to complete the first true AI, alas ... the dream is nearly dead, but meh.
12:03:35 <planetmaker> yeah, he did an amazing job with his robot stories.
12:03:39 <Terkhen> you can still make an OpenTTD AI :P
12:03:53 <Terkhen> if it follows the three rules it won't get much money, though
12:04:00 <planetmaker> Actually laying the path for many thought trails
12:04:04 <KittenKoder> Well, I am still learning the languages for OTTD, however I was considering it.
12:04:16 <planetmaker> NoAIs are written in squirrel
12:04:38 <KittenKoder> Could one be written in c or c++?
12:05:30 <KittenKoder> ... better question to append to that, is there an API as well?
12:06:27 <KittenKoder> The 2cc set maglevs really line up nicely on my new maglev track graphics.
12:06:29 <planetmaker> could. But will not be supported by official versions
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12:06:55 <planetmaker> but yes, the API is for squirrel
12:06:59 <KittenKoder> Aaah ... best to make it supported by official versions so people would actually be more likely to test it.
12:07:25 <planetmaker> the old AI which was part of the game was in C. But... it was notoriously bad and cheated
12:07:34 <KittenKoder> LOL
12:07:37 <planetmaker> And now... the AI work is out-sourced from a dev POV :-P
12:07:43 <KittenKoder> The Open version, you mean?
12:07:54 <planetmaker> we're in OpenTTD
12:08:23 <KittenKoder> The original TTD AI wasn't that bad, it wasn't smart but it was smarter and planned things.
12:09:16 <KittenKoder> Though there was the "stray track" error if you outcompeted ....
12:09:22 <planetmaker> it was pretty stupid. But the same logic increasingly failed with new additions and esp. newgrfs
12:10:05 <KittenKoder> Could NML handle AI coding or would I have to buckle down for that?
12:10:56 <planetmaker> Nope. NewGRFs and AIs are completely different things
12:11:13 <KittenKoder> Aaah.
12:11:20 <planetmaker> NML is the NewGRF language. Squirrel the NoAI language. C/C++ the OpenTTD source language
12:11:22 <KittenKoder> So I need to learn Squirel.
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12:11:26 <planetmaker> yep
12:11:34 <planetmaker> not difficult from what it looks like
12:11:40 <KittenKoder> Or just figure out the c/c++ interface.
12:12:02 <planetmaker> won't work. It's a squirrel-API which OpenTTD offers
12:12:12 <KittenKoder> But since Squirrel is part of the official version, I'll look into it.
12:12:29 <KittenKoder> Anyhow, what did you think of my idea?
12:12:42 <KittenKoder> The maglev thing.
12:12:57 <planetmaker> You don't need squirrel really. OpenTTD brings all it needs
12:13:19 <planetmaker> It offers so-to-speak squirrel VMs for AIs
12:14:11 <KittenKoder> I'll look into it more once I get my train design itch out of the way.
12:14:30 <planetmaker> look in src/script :-)
12:15:50 <planetmaker> but what idea do you mean?
12:17:02 <Eddi|zuHause> you realize how annoying it is to read a conversation between two people with the same nick length and nick colour?
12:17:26 <andythenorth> at least one of them has upper case
12:17:28 <KittenKoder> LOL
12:17:32 <andythenorth> so you can visually distinguish
12:17:50 <Eddi|zuHause> andythenorth: i can't, colour practically dominates all other differences.
12:17:52 <andythenorth> we have two people at work whose names are same length, begin with 'r' and end in 'a'
12:17:58 <KittenKoder> I'm glad one of them is me, I can tell what I'm saying.
12:18:12 <Alberth> Eddi|zuHause: perhaps you should improve the colour allocation thingie to also take nickname length into account
12:18:28 <KittenKoder> Script.
12:19:03 <Terkhen> yup, I should do that too
12:20:18 <KittenKoder> Cool, I didn't screw up the parameter labels, I just chose the wrong settings. >.<
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12:22:39 <KittenKoder> Where is glu?
12:23:55 <KittenKoder> I actually made an efficient industrial "complex" that's even cool looking.
12:24:38 <Alberth> do you have a screen shot?
12:24:57 <KittenKoder> Guess I should take one before the nearby city overtakes it, huh.
12:25:12 <Alberth> load an old autosave :)
12:26:13 <KittenKoder> I don't bother with autosave.
12:26:34 <KittenKoder> Making a composite ....
12:27:04 <KittenKoder> Yay for Gimp!
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12:36:54 <KittenKoder> Just need to upload.
12:38:10 <KittenKoder> Alright, it's pretty big:
12:39:22 <KittenKoder> The coal mine on the left is going to a steel mill.
12:40:04 <frosch123> did you cut stuff aways, or did you compose that from multiple screenshots?
12:40:21 <KittenKoder> Multiple shots.
12:40:29 <frosch123> in the latter case there is a screenshot funtion to create a zoomed-in screenshot of the area you see when zoomed out
12:40:47 <KittenKoder> I keep forgetting about that. >.<
12:41:51 <frosch123> and i do not see maglev on that screenshot :p
12:41:53 <Alberth> neat! Much nicer than I make them
12:42:20 <KittenKoder> Nope, I have a maglev in the game, it's a passenger express route, way on the edges though.
12:42:26 <andythenorth> he
12:42:28 <andythenorth> flat maps :)
12:42:32 <KittenKoder> That's all electirc.
12:42:36 <andythenorth> I played a flat map once
12:42:50 <KittenKoder> Actually, it's a subsection of the Congo map.
12:43:12 <CIA-2> OpenTTD: alberth * r22741 /trunk/src/ (newgrf_airport.h table/airport_movement.h): -Add: Add exit direction of hangars to airport specifications.
12:43:37 <KittenKoder> The game has this weird habit of putting most industries and towns in flat areas for me.
12:44:00 <KittenKoder> I have to rerandomize everything a few times just to get one that's at least a little spread out.
12:44:17 <andythenorth> KittenKoder: it's largely because most industries can only build on flat ground
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12:44:25 <KittenKoder> I figured.
12:44:34 <andythenorth> especially the big FIRS industries :(
12:44:43 <CIA-2> OpenTTD: alberth * r22742 /trunk/src/station_base.h: -Add: Add function to query exit direction of hangars at airports.
12:44:49 <KittenKoder> I like FIRS though, so I put up with it. ;)
12:45:15 <KittenKoder> The standard industries are just boring and ECS never works for me.
12:45:17 <planetmaker> well... we *might* go for changing that between 0.7 and 1.0 ;-)
12:45:38 <KittenKoder> That would be cool if possible.
12:45:40 <andythenorth> planetmaker: it's pretty tricky :P
12:45:47 <andythenorth> the ones that can build on slopes, do
12:46:00 <KittenKoder> Oil wells build anywhere.
12:46:04 <planetmaker> we just convert the whole set from nfo to NML. Which will be done with 0.7 coming out
12:46:07 <planetmaker> andythenorth: of course it is
12:46:09 <KittenKoder> I love the oil wells in FIRS.
12:46:14 <andythenorth> it has been often discussed to have the game terraform better for industry
12:46:17 <planetmaker> not everything would be buildable on slopes. But...
12:46:35 <planetmaker> andythenorth: no terraform. Just proper sprites ;-)
12:46:49 <andythenorth> hmm
12:46:52 <planetmaker> or often proper offsets would suffice
12:46:53 <andythenorth> you have a secret plan?
12:46:57 <planetmaker> no :-P
12:47:00 <KittenKoder> I think the toyland should be replaced with "mixed" and have industries with specific terrain preferences.
12:47:07 <planetmaker> But things like junk yard could do w/o foundations
12:47:11 <KittenKoder> But that may be a bit too much to ask at this point.
12:47:20 <CIA-2> OpenTTD: alberth * r22743 /trunk/src/aircraft_cmd.cpp: -Fix [FS#4696]: Make aircraft point to the exit when leaving the hangar.
12:47:30 <planetmaker> and maybe houses of a larger industry could go for different slopes, too
12:47:36 <andythenorth> planetmaker: the only way proposed so far requires drawing ~22 sprites per tile
12:47:37 <planetmaker> allow something more in those cases
12:47:43 <Terkhen> KittenKoder: OpenGFX+ Industries allows you to customize which default industries you want to use, regardless of climate
12:47:54 <planetmaker> andythenorth: there's 19 slopes exactly :-P
12:47:57 <andythenorth> although junk yard might be a special case as it's similar to forests + fruit plantations
12:48:04 <planetmaker> you grossly overestimate the work by 15% :-P
12:48:17 <andythenorth> junk yard is mostly fences and vehicles
12:48:18 <KittenKoder> Terkhen, I believe you missed my point. ;)
12:48:46 <andythenorth> if we restricted certain tiles to flat....&& someone drew the ground tile, it could build on slopes...
12:48:52 <planetmaker> KittenKoder: how so?
12:49:03 <andythenorth> mixed terrain
12:49:10 <andythenorth> all-climates-one-climate
12:49:18 <KittenKoder> !
12:49:21 <KittenKoder> ^
12:49:25 <Terkhen> good luck with that :)
12:49:28 <KittenKoder> Wrong symbol.
12:49:50 <KittenKoder> As I said, it may be too much trouble for them, but it would be a nice touch.
12:50:24 <andythenorth> planetmaker: any industry with large sliced buildings is a straight NO for slopes
12:50:36 <andythenorth> some of the others might still be taught how to build on slopes though
12:50:50 <KittenKoder> Thus forest based industries would be more inclined to appear in temperate terrain, mines in tropic and arctic, oil all over ... secondary clustered near towns, etc.
12:51:04 <planetmaker> andythenorth: yes, those building tiles don't go on slopes, of course
12:51:44 <KittenKoder> Couldn't the industry sprites be broken like the oil wells but stuck together?
12:51:53 <andythenorth> some can yes
12:51:57 <KittenKoder> I think I saw a few junk yards that were on different levels.
12:52:35 <andythenorth> lumber yard could *nearly* be taught to build on a slope
12:52:48 <KittenKoder> Yeah, and I have a sawmill in two levels on that screen cap.
12:52:51 <andythenorth> planetmaker: if you want to extend the slope-building, some industries will need two tiles instead of one
12:53:04 <planetmaker> maybe, yes
12:53:12 <planetmaker> I wouldn't die from that ;-)
12:53:18 <andythenorth> no, we have enough tile IDs
12:53:27 <KittenKoder> LOL
12:53:29 <andythenorth> just mentioning as you guys are busy templating :P
12:53:39 <KittenKoder> There is a lot of variety in FIRS already.
12:53:42 <planetmaker> do you really care about tileIDs?
12:53:57 <andythenorth> yes and no
12:53:59 <planetmaker> we're at 1.1...1.3 per industry
12:54:20 <andythenorth> the approach we use will stay within the limit
12:54:25 <planetmaker> giving each industry an average of 2 won't kill us
12:54:28 <andythenorth> the limit is quite low
12:54:35 <planetmaker> 256 or so?
12:54:39 <andythenorth> think so
12:54:42 <andythenorth> might not be pooled though
12:55:10 <andythenorth> 256 per grf
12:55:19 <andythenorth> but 512 in total, including original
12:55:20 <planetmaker> 512 all in all 256 per grf
12:55:23 <andythenorth> so no issue
12:55:51 <planetmaker> I don't say we should waste them. But we have sufficient space
12:57:13 <andythenorth> metal foundry could also be taught to build on slopes
12:57:28 <andythenorth> although there would be some odd appearance (not broken though)
12:57:45 <KittenKoder> I like how the farms cluster if you allow multiple industries per town.
12:57:50 <andythenorth> planetmaker: changing tile IDs is a savegame break though
12:57:56 <andythenorth> so might be worth trying to do in 0.7
12:58:07 <andythenorth> I really want to avoid save game breaks from 0.7 onwards if possible
12:58:34 <KittenKoder> Meh.
13:05:47 <andythenorth> paper mill and sugar refinery could also be taught to build on slopes
13:05:53 <andythenorth> although sugar refinery maybe shouldn't
13:06:51 <Rubidium> you ought to use a major version number bump for breaking changes
13:07:10 <andythenorth> like 1.0? :P
13:07:18 <Rubidium> yep
13:07:23 <andythenorth> hmm
13:07:31 <andythenorth> if we get to 1.0, then we won't break version until 2.0
13:07:39 <andythenorth> unless it's a critical bug fix
13:07:51 <andythenorth> but we're not at 1.0 yet, by a mile :|
13:10:05 <planetmaker> Rubidium: so far FIRS has been using the OpenTTD scheme: a.b.c where b is the "major" version and a the "super" version so to speak ;-)
13:12:23 <KittenKoder> TGV are pretty.
13:19:51 <Terkhen> so 0.7 should be feature and industry complete already?
13:22:07 <andythenorth> Terkhen: no
13:22:11 <andythenorth> check the tickets :)
13:22:22 <andythenorth> there are some remaining tasks
13:23:02 <Terkhen> none of those breaks savegame compatibility?
13:23:07 <andythenorth> but after 0.7 I'm hoping to avoid changes to action 0 stuff
13:23:50 <andythenorth> hopefully from 0.7 onwards, a lot of polishing can be done for 1.0
13:24:00 <andythenorth> leaving major game-breaking changes until 2.0
13:24:25 <andythenorth> I've played quite a bit with FIRS trunk, it's not rubbish anymore
13:24:32 <andythenorth> still not good, but not rubbish
13:27:23 <andythenorth> ~200 changes between 0.6.4 and 0.7, excluding nml conversion
13:29:06 <Terkhen> after 0.7 I want to add a framework to conditionally select industries, as done on OpenGFX+ Industries
13:29:15 <Terkhen> after that, economies should be easier
13:29:20 <planetmaker> That's economies, Terkhen
13:29:28 <andythenorth> hmm
13:29:29 <planetmaker> not per industry, but per sector
13:29:32 <Terkhen> I know :P
13:29:34 <andythenorth> economies == later :)
13:29:45 <planetmaker> each one individually doesn't make sense with FIRS imho
13:29:45 <Terkhen> andythenorth: yes, the framework by itself will do nothing
13:30:00 <andythenorth> it needs to handle some other things, like probability and such
13:30:12 <andythenorth> lots of action 6 or whatever :(
13:30:16 <KittenKoder> What do you mean by economies in FIRS?
13:30:36 <planetmaker> emphasis on certain sectors
13:30:38 <andythenorth> yes
13:30:44 <KittenKoder> Aah.
13:30:45 <Terkhen> andythenorth: probability_ingame: (economy_param == whatever) ? 4 : 2;
13:30:48 <KittenKoder> That would be cool.
13:30:55 <andythenorth> so 'farming' economy
13:31:02 <andythenorth> or 'city' economy
13:31:36 <andythenorth> things that might vary: included industries, included cargos, cargo payment rates, probabilities
13:31:41 <Terkhen> andythenorth, planetmaker: what I meant is; include the code for conditionally including / disabling industries
13:31:50 <Terkhen> then that code gets tested as in theory it should do nothing
13:32:10 <KittenKoder> Differing cargo payment rates for games would be nice ...
13:32:11 <Terkhen> therefore it makes sense to include it even before economies are done
13:32:21 <planetmaker> Terkhen: I've no problem with that
13:32:51 <Terkhen> this should be done after 0.7 (so we can identify bugs caused by conversion more easily) but before economies are introduced (to get some testing)
13:33:02 <Terkhen> and yes, custom cargo payment rate methods would be nice
13:33:22 <Terkhen> I want to do some for OpenGFX+ Industries, but I have no clue of what mechanics they should follow :)
13:33:30 <planetmaker> :-)
13:33:34 <KittenKoder> Right now when I look at the industry layout my eyes just jump straight to the highest pay, lowest cost industry connections. It'd be nice to get tripped up more.
13:34:36 * andythenorth afk
13:36:09 <andythenorth> Terkhen: maybe include disable / enable for 0.7.x
13:36:21 <andythenorth> and then try and get n economies done for 0.8
13:36:28 <Terkhen> hmm... ok :)
13:36:43 <Terkhen> I'll start with that once that the conversion is complete
13:37:26 <planetmaker> hm... I'm not sure... I think 0.7 should not go for too much
13:41:03 <andythenorth> I wasn't thinking for 0.7.0 ;)
13:41:10 <andythenorth> and 0.7.1 is likely to be a bug fix release
13:41:18 <andythenorth> but maybe after that
13:43:46 <Terkhen> ok :P
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15:48:49 <WMP> how to use ? I havent replace vehicles
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15:49:35 <Alberth> did you setup a replacement?
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15:50:33 <Alberth> ie open the window as shown in the 2nd picture, and press 'start replacing' at the bottom left
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15:51:12 <WMP> i havent replacement
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15:51:17 <WMP> how to setup this?
15:51:28 <Alberth> after you have done that, vehicles for which you set up a replacement will get replaced when they visit a depot
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15:52:47 <Alberth> you can send one manually to the depot as test
15:53:00 <WMP> i send all vehicles
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15:53:34 <WMP> but i havent installed replacement
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15:54:24 <Alberth> then nothing gets replaced, first open the window shown at the 2nd picture (by clicking at 'replace vehicles' as shown in the first picture)
15:54:44 <WMP> and i havent replace vehicles
15:55:11 <Alberth> then at the left, select the engine you currently have, at the right the engine you want to have
15:55:12 <WMP> version: OpenTTD 1.1.2-RC2
15:55:34 <Alberth> WMP: I don't understand where you are stuck
15:55:50 <Alberth> can you open the window as shown at the 2nd picture?
15:56:34 <WMP> O
15:56:36 <WMP> i'm blink ;)
15:56:40 <WMP> ok, no rpoblem ;)
15:56:58 <test> Sorry for the many connection attempts. Finding a client for an old phone isnt so easy. :p
15:57:36 <Alberth> WMP: Alberth: then at the left, select the engine you currently have, at the right the engine you want to have
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15:58:01 <Alberth> then press 'start replacing' at the bottom left
15:58:07 <Alberth> did you do that?
15:58:08 <WMP> Alberth: is posisble to replace rail to maglev?
15:58:21 <Alberth> rail, sure
15:58:41 <Alberth> switch to maglev tracks, and use 'update'
15:59:32 <Alberth>
15:59:47 <WMP> i think about rail vehicle
15:59:51 <Alberth> euhm, it's called 'convert' instead of 'update' :)
15:59:52 <WMP> to maglevel vehicle
16:00:04 <Alberth> no, not possible
16:00:10 <WMP> ughhh...
16:00:23 <Alberth> as the old engine has to be in a different depot then the new one
16:00:52 <Alberth> but you can build a maglev depot, build one train, and clone all others
16:01:03 <test> And we dont have multi-tile depots.
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16:02:00 <WMP> ohhh...
16:02:14 <Alberth> test: and even then, you'd need to define replacement of all vehicles, not just the engine
16:02:17 <WMP> so i must make 50 new train....
16:03:05 <Alberth> I don't upgrade, and build a new rail system next to the existing one
16:03:34 <Alberth> gtg, food is ready now :)
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17:27:41 <Ammler> WMP: there are newgrfs for that task
17:48:29 <andythenorth> bonsoir
17:49:49 <__ln__> seulement anglais
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17:59:24 <andythenorth> pas de anglais
18:00:59 <__ln__> voilà la baguette
18:01:50 <andythenorth> ici un chien
18:03:30 <__ln__> três bien
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19:05:44 <Ragnoff> Wow, a lot more people than i expected!
19:08:10 <frosch123> hello no 100
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19:28:44 <pjpe> is there any major glaring bugs that would make the nightly 2cc right now not a great idea to play with
19:28:47 <pjpe> over the 2.0 beta
19:29:33 <Terkhen> I don't know, the 2cc thread might be a better place to ask that
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19:53:49 <frosch123> what? a wagon cots 592 to buy, and 2460 to refit :o
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19:54:53 <Terkhen> companies prefer that you buy new stuff :)
19:55:22 <frosch123> well, that's bad. that mean i am bankrupt :s
19:55:38 <frosch123> build my first route and just managed to buy the engine and vehicles
19:55:44 <frosch123> and now i have no money to refit :p
19:56:02 <Terkhen> hmm... with what train set?
19:56:09 <frosch123> serbian standard gauge
19:56:16 <Terkhen> never heard of it :P
19:56:22 <Terkhen> sounds like a bug to me
19:56:24 <frosch123> i just picked some set :)
19:56:32 <Terkhen> or a wrong design decision maybe
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20:06:21 <frosch123> at least wagons with a capacity of 5 bags of gold have very quick loading/unloading :)
20:10:27 <frosch123> hmm, refit costs are added to "running costs" in the finance window
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20:17:33 <Terkhen> sounds expensive :P
20:18:38 <frosch123> yeah, now using ogfx+trains :)
20:18:55 <frosch123> it would have taken 5 years to get the money for the next train
20:22:33 <Terkhen> :P
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21:03:53 <Wolf01> 'night
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21:34:36 <pjpe> there's some uh
21:34:46 <pjpe> interesting stuff on that 2cc repository
21:34:48 <pjpe>
21:34:55 <pjpe>
21:34:56 <pjpe> O_O
21:35:17 <Terkhen> good night
21:36:29 <planetmaker> luckily it's not the 2cc _repo_
21:36:41 <planetmaker> learn to know the main coder's wife there
21:40:36 <pjpe> learn to know?
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21:42:27 <planetmaker> whatever "meet" or... how you like
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22:07:24 <frosch123> night
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