IRC logs for #openttd on OFTC at 2011-07-24
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05:51:01 * andythenorth is feeling oppressed by openttd
05:51:09 <andythenorth> my trains have to run on tracks
05:57:36 <peter1138> yes, it is sickening
05:59:40 <andythenorth> it's almost directly equivalent to torture and genocide
06:00:16 <andythenorth> and the large scale repression of populations via slavery or forced labour and denial of basic rights
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07:03:38 <Prof_Frink> andythenorth: Go back to TTDPatch. Then, your trains could roam free on the high seas.
07:03:59 <Prof_Frink> (Well, water half of diagonal coastline tiles)
07:04:17 <andythenorth> don't oppress me with your TTDPatch
07:04:38 * Prof_Frink burns andythenorth
07:05:36 * andythenorth stops trolling forums
07:05:41 <andythenorth> and builds a lego
07:06:29 <andythenorth> I am too impatient to be a really good troll
08:00:10 <planetmaker> hm... lego. Sorry, andy, my parabole works with wood blocks ;-)
08:00:18 <andythenorth> it wouldn't work with lego
08:00:33 <andythenorth> I just spent the last hour fishing lego technic out of the baby
08:00:50 <planetmaker> lool :-) Lego and baby is exactly that phenomenon
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08:01:00 <planetmaker> not good going together
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08:05:05 <andythenorth> that thread is at least fun
08:05:19 <andythenorth> and I have respect for anyone trying to defend freedom
08:05:35 <andythenorth> it's quite silly to argue against that principle
08:05:46 <andythenorth> but I fear that if he's so easily defeated by Pikka...
08:05:54 <andythenorth> he might not be much use in the face of real oppression :o
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08:06:27 * andythenorth would be useless as an opponent of opression
08:06:32 <planetmaker> nah, the point is he is using the freedom argument in a wrong way. Thus he was bound to loose
08:07:02 <planetmaker> Freedom never meant you can tell other people what they do for you for free
08:07:27 <andythenorth> I did wonder if he's trying to enslave us
08:07:34 <andythenorth> I think it's a sustainable argument that he is
08:07:48 <planetmaker> sustainable in what way?
08:08:01 <andythenorth> he's trying to corral our labour for free
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08:08:13 <andythenorth> and control the way in which we make decisions
08:09:03 <andythenorth> it's an act of hegemony - and he tries to support it with a call to a higher principle
08:09:19 <planetmaker> :-) yup, quite so. Thus the 'freedom argument' is actually quite ill-used and a good red herring
08:09:20 <andythenorth> thereby trying to subjugate us and assert that our subjugation is actually part of the natural order
08:09:37 <planetmaker> Bad for he it was looked through
08:10:22 <andythenorth> it's a direct analogy with the use of (e.g.) christianity to justify slavery in European colonialism
08:10:33 <andythenorth> not even a metaphor - directly compares
08:10:58 <planetmaker> :-) Feel free to lay out that analogy within that thread. Might be fun
08:11:07 <andythenorth> going to the park with the child :)
08:11:22 <planetmaker> and I'd consider that argument still somewhat on-topic in that ridiculous thread ;-)
08:11:29 <planetmaker> sounds more fruitful
08:11:42 <andythenorth> I am enslaved by my child somewhat :P
08:11:55 <andythenorth> which is approximately equivalent to being enslaved by my own genes
08:12:01 <andythenorth> so I enslaved myself :P
08:12:11 <planetmaker> that's (hopefully) a freely made decision ;-)
08:12:30 <andythenorth> freely, or made by a genetic urge?
08:12:34 <planetmaker> (and not like "dear andy, you know we always paid attention, but...) :-P
08:13:04 <andythenorth> more like enslaved by some desire to replicate
08:13:11 <andythenorth> it's possibly a virus
08:13:14 <planetmaker> is that slavery? ;-)
08:13:17 <andythenorth> or at least parasitic
08:13:36 <andythenorth> probably qualifies at least as an enslaving meme
08:13:45 <andythenorth> anyway, I made a boat in FISH
08:13:51 <andythenorth> so that's 1 step closer to next release
08:14:16 <planetmaker> you enslaved the sprites!
08:16:21 <andythenorth> they didn't complain :P
08:18:11 <andythenorth> next release should have 3-4 new ships in
08:18:19 <andythenorth> I am sulking about the Tow Boats and they are removed
08:18:59 <andythenorth> they're not deleted
08:19:19 <planetmaker> well. Just make them unavailable in order to not break compatibility
08:28:57 <peter1138> hmm, wii... scart cable or component cable?
08:35:13 <__ln__> peter1138: do you like playing old nes games and such?
08:35:56 <peter1138> erm, i've got a couple on the virtual console thingy
08:36:58 <__ln__> with the component cable there's a chance you won't see the picture in some.
08:37:03 <Eddi|zuHause> i have a scart to component adapter, if that counts ;)
08:39:23 <__ln__> that's because the games use quite unusual modes (like progressive small resolution), and a lot of televisions do not understand those.
08:39:53 <__ln__> some virtual console games have a workaround for that, but not all.
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09:21:49 <Terkhen> hmm... I was going to answer at the unfreedom thread but now it looks "done" to me
09:22:30 <Terkhen> just "you can still do it with the current solution, and our solution requires zero extra work and has none of the issues we mentioned and you failed to address"
09:23:28 * Alberth thankfully missed that part :)
09:25:31 <frosch123> that thread turned into something completely different on every page :p
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10:54:18 <Alberth> can smoke effects of industries get shifted in time? two chimneys of the OpenGFX industries power plant smoking exactly in sync looks weird
10:58:13 <Terkhen> the smoke of default industries is handled by OpenTTD code
10:58:37 <Terkhen> and IIRC that code is not used for smoke effects in NewGRF industries
11:01:16 <andythenorth> Alberth: it can be handled in nfo
11:01:27 <andythenorth> smoke is bugged anyway :P
11:01:46 <andythenorth> providing an effect vehicle framework would be an awesome addition
11:01:53 <andythenorth> doesn't have to be massively complex
11:03:08 <Terkhen> I swear that the rate at which small changes become huge ones has been increasing lately
11:03:19 <Terkhen> now they only need a few minutes instead of a few hours of discussion :P
11:03:31 <andythenorth> the small things get discussed n times
11:03:39 <andythenorth> and so turn into a general solution :P
11:03:46 <andythenorth> or at least....the idea of a general solution
11:03:54 <andythenorth> maybe it's a bad pattern
11:03:56 <Terkhen> we should focus on a general solution for all general solution instead
11:04:11 <andythenorth> the focus on a general solution means the small thing remains unsolved
11:09:47 <flitz> Eddi: your tip yesterday was worth gold
11:10:21 <flitz> had I started with template creation instead of drawing, I could have saved a lot of unnecessary work :D
11:10:43 <planetmaker> andythenorth: sometimes: yes. But often a small solution would be worse in the mid- to long-range
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11:11:06 <planetmaker> and we'd end up with totally unhandable specs
11:11:16 <andythenorth> and right now we have...? :P
11:11:21 * andythenorth is being facetious
11:11:32 <andythenorth> the vehicle specs are fine
11:11:48 <andythenorth> I have spent too much time in industry code which is a world of small solutions
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11:13:19 <peter1138> the holes in the back of the old telly are... just holes
11:13:28 <peter1138> not holes for screwing into for mounting it :S
11:16:54 <andythenorth> did you find that out before or after attaching it ?
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11:32:25 <peter1138> hmm, maybe some shelving instead :S
11:33:05 <peter1138> problem is telly stands usually stick out way further than the screen :S
11:34:11 * andythenorth is looking at pictures of singapore
11:34:40 <Alberth> depends on the density of towns :)
11:34:43 <__ln__> andythenorth: don't tell Belugas
11:35:32 <frosch123> damn, can i somehow configure hg to show relative paths to the current working dir, instead of from the repository root
11:37:09 <Alberth> other than using a terminal with cwd == repository root, I have not found a way so far
11:38:08 <Alberth> I am also not totally convinced it would be an improvement; bzr had it, and that was confusing too
11:45:51 <andythenorth> some FISH ships have mail capacity = passenger capacity
11:45:53 <andythenorth> seems a bit high
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12:51:19 <tony> i have little bit trouble with openttd version 1.1.1 with LAN mode, i'm use in the server windows XP, and the client W7, and in the server always works fine.. in both machine have firewall down... and when the client connect to the server in 10 or 15 seconds start laggy and lost connection.. when start again client into server again happend same... :( if i revert the server for W7 the XP client happend same too.. how can i fix that?
12:56:18 <planetmaker> hm, has it always been that way, that openttd uses the cfg relative to the current dir and not relative to the binary dir? I guess so...
12:59:29 <Alberth> tony: did you try smaller maps ?
13:00:24 <tony> but if it is LAN mode with wire cable.. how can is laggy.. or it is a problem use maps more than 1024x1024 ?
13:00:42 <Alberth> that means nothing to me :) but you are looking for causes, and doing a few experiments can give you an idea of a cause
13:01:14 <tony> because that happend starting the game
13:01:22 <tony> if i play in the internet mode
13:01:22 <Alberth> I don't expect problems on a LAN, but that would imply your map works too :)
13:02:15 <Alberth> you could also try swapping the machine that is the server
13:03:27 <tony> my 1st scenary is XP as server and W7 as client the server works fine when client connect laggy and disconnect.. after 10 seconds 'cause laggy
13:03:38 <tony> and reverting machines W7 server XP client same thing
13:05:41 <Alberth> sorry, but I have not enough knowledge of the network part to know what is going on
13:06:07 <tony> erm... it is a problem if i want to install normal mode.. and after that copy all directory father c:\openttd\* to my other partition?...
13:06:12 <Alberth> did you look at CPU load?
13:06:50 <tony> cpu is ok because the server game works fine.. maybe have to compare when client connect.. :|
13:07:22 <Alberth> being a linux user, I really don't know anything about the windows file system :(
13:08:25 <Alberth> one other option is that some software is messing with your network connection
13:09:05 <Alberth> or your router perhaps :p
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13:09:21 <tony> i disable all about that softw like antivirus .. win updates.. jdownloaders
13:09:45 <tony> i try now only simple and clean instalation to look
13:10:38 <Alberth> did you search the forum for clues what might be wrong?
13:11:09 <tony> yes i do.. i looking and all forums post i found have other troubles .. with LAN all fine..
13:12:03 <tony> i try openttd dedicate server with -D option and nothing either
13:14:07 <Eddi|zuHause> so... did you actually try with a smaller map?
13:15:54 <Alberth> tony: LAN is not a good keyword, 'laggy' is what you should look for. a LAN is just a fast internet, that is, it is not special.
13:17:15 <Alberth> did you try another program to connect between the machines?
13:23:26 <tony> Eddi|zuHause: not yet. i try now..
13:23:49 <tony> Alberth: no programs between machines only the cable simple 192.168.0.0/24 as class C and the game...
13:24:08 <tony> i reinstall the game now.. i try .. i reinstall again the client.. and have to make some test...
13:24:31 <tony> thanxs to all :) sorry by my english i'm latin.
13:49:28 <Eddi|zuHause> i doubt he meant "latin" as in "from ancient rome"
13:51:13 <__ln__> zomfg, just a couple of days ago i was looking for a native ancient roman to describe latin pronunciation, and now there was one here.
14:13:58 <Rubidium> I would've said there's no nationality ending with "in", but then I'd be wrong ;)
14:15:05 <Eddi|zuHause> in german, words ending in "-in" usually describe a female person ;)
14:16:23 <Rubidium> and for those wondering, it's Montenegrin
14:18:08 <Eddi|zuHause> so in german, a female person from montenegro would be a "montenegrinin" ;)
14:19:50 <Rubidium> not Montenegrinerin?
14:20:51 <Rubidium> or is that plural + in?
14:23:29 <Eddi|zuHause> that's possible, too, but it sounds odd...
14:23:57 <Eddi|zuHause> planetmaker: something's still wrong with the dependency. i changed some includes, and now i get this:
14:25:19 <planetmaker> Eddi|zuHause: includes have to be relative to where you include something
14:25:49 <Eddi|zuHause> planetmaker: yes, but that is not the problem. dep check fails on a file that is deleted, and not included from anywhere anymore
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14:27:47 <Eddi|zuHause> planetmaker: it works correctly after a make clean
14:29:10 <Eddi|zuHause> Rubidium: i'm not entirely sure what the rules are on when to attach the -in to the -er and when to replace it
14:30:15 <planetmaker> 16:15 Eddi|zuHause: in german, words ending in "-in" usually describe a female person ;) <-- like "Bein" ? ;-)
14:31:00 <Eddi|zuHause> planetmaker: if you speak it "Be - in", yes ;)
14:32:20 <Rubidium> Eddi|zuHause: sadly enough make always fails when files are removed; don't think you can do much about that :(
14:33:09 <planetmaker> oh, ... so it's a one-time removal only? Yes... that's very hard to impossible to solve
14:33:53 <planetmaker> unless I rescan every dependency every time
14:34:26 <planetmaker> in which case I don't need the dep check as it only will eat time instead of save anything anywhere
14:34:50 <CIA-2> OpenTTD: rubidium * r22684 /branches/1.1/ (23 files in 3 dirs):
14:34:50 <CIA-2> OpenTTD: [1.1] -Backport from trunk:
14:34:50 <CIA-2> OpenTTD: - Change: [NewGRF] Only allow access (via hotkey and menu) to the bounding box visualisation when NewGRF developer tools are enabled (r22675)
14:34:50 <CIA-2> OpenTTD: - Fix: [NewGRF] Disallow accessing variable 1B in network games due to desync reasons (r22682)
14:34:50 <CIA-2> OpenTTD: - Update: languages
14:38:18 <frosch123> german is all about the one thing. men wear female trousers, woman wear male skirts
14:39:24 <Eddi|zuHause> the world would be truely boring if genders wouldn't mix constantly :p
14:43:44 <CIA-2> OpenTTD: rubidium * r22685 /branches/1.1/ (9 files in 7 dirs): [1.1] -Prepare: 1.1.2-RC1
14:48:40 <CIA-2> OpenTTD: rubidium * r22686 /tags/1.1.2-RC1/ (. src/os/windows/ottdres.rc.in src/rev.cpp.in): -Release 1.1.2-RC1
14:50:56 <Eddi|zuHause> __ln__: that hardly counts as a german word
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15:48:17 <giorgio> how can there be so many people, but no-one active...?
15:51:50 <__ln__> we have a relatively high signal-to-noise ratio
15:52:20 <planetmaker> __ln__: rather the noise filter is set to rigerous settings ;-)
15:53:29 <giorgio> if its possible to answer such a question, i would appriciate it... I have not played since version 0.7, should i just dive straight into the new version, or are there things i need to know (big differences etc.)?
15:55:00 <planetmaker> just try and see?
15:55:04 <frosch123> since 0.7? no, i think there is nothing which is not obvious from the gui
15:55:49 <planetmaker> frosch123: the totally unused admin port :-(
15:56:02 <frosch123> giorgio: though you may set bigger fonts in openttd.cfg if you like
15:57:02 <Eddi|zuHause> i have a feeling some of the template dimensions are not right
15:57:18 <Eddi|zuHause> like a pixel too wide
15:57:39 * planetmaker steals a pixel from Eddi|zuHause
16:01:52 <Eddi|zuHause> would be nice to get a list of all manually adjusted sprites from the sprite adjuster
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16:11:15 <rait> evening all. Could someone point me in the right direction on how to create a town names list?
16:12:05 <__ln__> nowadays the answer for everything is 'newgrf'.
16:12:22 <rait> yeah, that much I managed to gather from the wiki
16:12:34 <rait> was hoping to find a tutorial or something for the town names part
16:25:06 <planetmaker> then you do not have to use a VCS and build system
16:25:22 <planetmaker> as most townname newgrfs on that address require one in order to build
16:25:53 <planetmaker> and yes, also get nml from that last link. get the newest nightly version
16:26:14 <__ln__> what will happen to the old non-grf name generators?
16:26:32 <planetmaker> __ln__: remain there in order to not break savegames
16:26:51 <planetmaker> maybe we sh/could unexpose them from the GUI though. Questionable though why we should do that
16:28:21 <__ln__> to make the game unusable without an internet connection
16:30:59 <Eddi|zuHause> the gui could use a few improvements: on loading a town name newgrf, it should automatically choose the first newgrf town name generator, and on unloading the grf, it should automatically switch back to the previous non-grf town name generator
16:32:12 <__ln__> does someone want to answer a stupid technical question?
16:33:05 <Eddi|zuHause> does someone want to ask a metaquestion?
16:33:46 <__ln__> as far as i understand generators cannot be altered because they should always produce the same results on all inputs in order to maintain savegame compatibility...
16:34:44 <Eddi|zuHause> yes, but they were already altered. e.g. all TTD savegames with german town names get screwed...
16:34:57 <__ln__> but since towns can be renamed to arbitrary values, there has to be a way to store the name of a town as a string rather than a sort of seed for the generator...
16:35:28 <__ln__> ... so why not store them as strings always, and then the generators could be freely altered and it wouldn't mess up old savegames?
16:35:48 <Eddi|zuHause> that was originally not done because there were only very few "slots" for custom names
16:36:43 <Eddi|zuHause> now it makes no sense to switch, because a) the old system works, and b) the old system needs to stay anyway because of the old savegames
16:37:02 <Eddi|zuHause> there is nothing to gain
16:38:22 <__ln__> i'm partially responsible for breaking savegame compatibility of the finnish generator. not that i've ever heard anyone complain about that.
16:40:20 <__ln__> though i don't think the problem was recognized at the time.
16:42:00 <planetmaker> Well... then the same scheme might also want to be applied to station names etc. But then the translation of the auto-generated names would be gone...
16:44:49 <Eddi|zuHause> i never saw much sense in translating the station names on the fly...
16:45:34 <Eddi|zuHause> station placement command then needs to pass a language ID, though
16:47:01 <planetmaker> hm... multiplayer might be solved by the client sending the station name to the server.
16:47:22 <planetmaker> It'd get funky names in coop... but that'd be ok, I guess
16:47:53 <planetmaker> But I see much sense in offering default station naming according to localization
16:47:56 <Eddi|zuHause> you'd get "duplicate" names where you couldn't before
16:48:35 <Eddi|zuHause> i mean: one player can build a "XXX Factory" station, and the other a "XXX Fabrik" station
16:48:53 <planetmaker> currently that's feasible to have two such stations
16:48:53 <Eddi|zuHause> because they are not "duplicate" in the literal sense
16:49:00 <planetmaker> one game-named, the other custom-named
16:49:10 <planetmaker> looking exactly identical
16:49:12 <Eddi|zuHause> yes, even more, because game-named can be duplicate
16:49:25 <planetmaker> that can be currently. yes
16:49:44 <Eddi|zuHause> that won't be possible anymore
16:49:50 <Eddi|zuHause> which might be a good thing
16:50:29 <planetmaker> where did *someone* go? He's always hiding :-(
16:52:48 <Eddi|zuHause> the "reset name" and autorename-on-town-name-change features won't work anymore
16:59:43 <Eddi|zuHause> # und der Gabelstaplerfahrer mit der Stapelgabel prahlt,
17:00:00 <planetmaker> yes... but a simple button in the SE "rename towns" would do the trick
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17:45:11 <CIA-2> OpenTTD: translators * r22687 /trunk/src/lang/catalan.txt:
17:45:11 <CIA-2> OpenTTD: -Update from WebTranslator v3.0:
17:45:11 <CIA-2> OpenTTD: catalan - 6 changes by arnau
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18:47:44 * frosch123 wonders whether admiralai is named admiralai because it does not use ships
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18:50:49 * andythenorth is surprised how scaling down a ship almost works - if you use the right photoshop interpolation settings
18:50:59 <andythenorth> 3 sizes of ship for free?
18:51:03 <andythenorth> not bloody likely :P
18:52:04 <planetmaker> (scroll down - though I haven't quite followed the ranking rules yet, seems 'interesting')
18:53:01 <planetmaker> probably from the ranking in the games agains eachother
18:56:03 <andythenorth> can you get them to play prisoner's dilemma ? :P
18:57:19 <__ln__> andythenorth: then someone would argue the ships are photoshopped
18:59:24 <frosch123> planetmaker: i thought nocab is considered the most competive one
19:01:43 <planetmaker> frosch123: yes... I'm surprised. One year is not a good measure, though
19:03:03 <Zuu> Nice to see that PAXLink got to play a bit and it does seem to do okay. :-)
19:03:16 <Zuu> But indeed one year is quite short to say anything.
19:03:46 <Zuu> PAXLink will not have any use for its seecret wepon - the pair optimizer :-p
19:09:25 <Eddi|zuHause> i'm not understanding the points
19:13:17 <Eddi|zuHause> no, absolutely not.
19:13:47 <Eddi|zuHause> i meant the points on the right
19:13:48 <Eddi|zuHause> road profit ( 16275 / 33355)
19:13:54 <Eddi|zuHause> what do these numbers mean?
19:14:08 <planetmaker> tentative answer: profit / best AI
19:14:28 <planetmaker> but I don't quite know yet :P
19:15:10 <Eddi|zuHause> oh. i guess it's confusing because it's not sorted by rounds
19:16:50 <Eddi|zuHause> you don't see who competed against who, so you can't easily compare the numbers
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19:38:13 <Emmy> oh motherfucking hell, X-chat
19:39:57 <MNIM> Seriously. I spent 15 minutes trying to edit it's serverlist to get it to boot up properly.
19:41:14 <MNIM> twelve year of game development, or twelve year of game time? :P
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20:10:16 <LordAro> readme viewer is still failing (i.e. i'm stuck again) http://paste.openttdcoop.org/show/367/ ,<-- that is my hacked together function, which doesn't work (displays 3 '?' and occasionally some other random characters), also, the commented out lines cause seg faults, and the function/window updates itself each tick, which is bad for memory usage, meaning that
20:10:32 <LordAro> the program eventually crashes with out of memory errors. help? :)
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20:14:25 <glx> LordAro: '?' are unrecognised/invalid chars
20:15:38 <Rubidium> 1) if FioFOpenFileTar returns NULL you can't trust the value of filesize. Given it's allocated on the stack it can be anything, so OOM could very well come from that
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20:16:33 <Rubidium> 2) don't print (debug) a string that is just allocated. It contains garbage and is possibly not properly terminated, so you'd be printing garbage, reading out of bounds and segfaulting
20:17:42 <Rubidium> 3) assigning "" to test at line 6 is pointless if you overwrite it again later on
20:18:06 <Rubidium> 4) if you don't/can't print anything, just return out of the function
20:18:15 <Rubidium> so line 6 gets a return
20:18:27 <Rubidium> between 10 and 11: if (readme == NULL) return;
20:19:12 <Rubidium> 5) don't dereference a file pointer; FILE *readme = FioF....
20:19:58 <LordAro> oh yes, that didn't work either, i think it needed FILE readme = *FioF... (?)
20:20:19 <Rubidium> that is definitely a sign of doing something very wrong
20:20:50 <Rubidium> if you get a pointer and you have to give it to some other function, do not dereference it ever
20:21:26 <LordAro> as you might have guessed, i _really_ don't understand pointers much :L
20:21:48 <glx> pointers are not really hard
20:23:27 <Rubidium> see it like a letter in an enveloppe. As postal service you don't care about the content, you just get the letter and deliver it to the other person. What you shouldn't do is make a (e.g.) black and white scan of the letter, send that to the other side of the world where they put a printed version into an enveloppe and deliver it.
20:23:57 <Rubidium> because if you send e.g. a color photo, or money the receiving end just doesn't get what it should've gotten
20:25:47 <Rubidium> so just see pointers as enveloppes that you should not open unless you know exactly what is in them.
20:34:08 <LordAro> so... what about the other problems? :)
20:35:50 <Rubidium> what other problems?
20:37:10 <Rubidium> the garbage being printed is due to not actually reading data or writing something useful to the newly allocated buffer that you print (it contains garbage)
20:37:32 <LordAro> so how do i read the data?
20:37:34 <Rubidium> the crashes and memory issues I've explained
20:37:44 <Rubidium> LordAro: with the fread that you commented out
20:38:19 <Rubidium> minus the &, likewise for the fclose. and it should be FILE *readme = FioF...
20:40:31 <LordAro> i'm sure i tried fread and fclose without the '&', i guess it was to do with FILE readme = FioF... being wrong...
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20:44:38 <LordAro> so what about the text updating every tick? i'm sure it doesn't need to do that..
20:46:13 <Alberth> loading the file in DrawWidget is let's say sub-optimal
20:48:50 <Rubidium> though that's rather something for 'later'
20:49:01 <Rubidium> when the reading and drawing works
20:49:50 <Rubidium> though... I as well bid you a good night
20:50:11 <LordAro> good night Rubidium, thanks for ypur help :)
20:50:57 <planetmaker> good night Rubidium
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21:21:10 <Eddi|zuHause> i think we really should start thinking about "refining" the movement scheme so we can reduce the length of vehicles in - direction...
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22:11:57 <Zuu> planetmaker: Looks like a good grave digging for you ;-) (not at the forums, but as of the old (but good) tournament system
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