IRC logs for #openttd on OFTC at 2011-06-25
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00:07:55 <MNIM> heh
00:08:10 <MNIM> okaying in the golden age right now, 1935
00:09:48 <MNIM> beautiful vintage trains and planes, fast intercities, giant station halls, beautiful coastal and mountain tracks, the works
00:09:51 <MNIM> *playing
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00:11:09 <MNIM> combined with TTRS, 2CCTS and AV8\
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03:11:39 <pikka> hello world
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03:14:54 <supermop> hello
03:16:09 <orudge> zomg Pikka
03:16:28 <pikka> oh look an orudge
03:16:44 <orudge> Oh noes
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06:21:50 <pikka> hi andy
06:27:03 <andythenorth> hola pikka
06:27:13 <andythenorth> is it bedtime?
06:27:21 <pikka> nope
06:27:34 <pikka> I'm sitting in a pub with orudge
06:27:34 * andythenorth is watching chuggington
06:27:45 <andythenorth> chuggington is not as good as I hoped
06:28:30 * andythenorth is sitting on a sofa with 1x sick child
06:28:31 <pikka> and stevenh, raichase, whitehand, and robotboy
06:28:38 <andythenorth> it's a gathering
06:28:46 <andythenorth> bet you're not watching chuggington
06:28:56 <pikka> chuggington isn't so good its true
06:30:16 <andythenorth> it's a bit like watching a talking version of Railroad Tycoon 3
06:30:29 <pikka> indeed
06:31:16 <andythenorth> definite uncanny valley effect on the human character
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07:53:04 <Terkhen> good morning
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07:53:52 <Wolf01> hello
07:54:46 * Alberth waves hi
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09:10:28 <andythenorth> will something exciting happen today?
09:11:12 <Terkhen> I'm testing important stuff so... I hope not :P
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09:35:27 <Spenger> hi
09:35:32 <Alberth> hi
09:35:51 <Spenger> how are you?
09:36:01 <Alberth> pondering lunch
09:36:51 <planetmaker> launch! ;-)
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09:37:03 <planetmaker> hello :-)
09:37:09 <Alberth> hi planetmaker
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09:48:07 <fjb> Moin
09:48:14 <Alberth> moin
09:48:28 <fjb> Moin Alberth
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11:26:57 <ZirconiumX> Hello all
11:27:17 <Terkhen> hi ZirconiumX
11:27:49 <ZirconiumX> Hi Terkhen
11:28:31 <ZirconiumX> How are you
11:28:51 * ZirconiumX is runnig dangerously low on greeting etc.
11:29:01 * ZirconiumX can't spell either
11:30:41 * Alberth gives ZirconiumX some coffee
11:31:09 <ZirconiumX> thanks Alberth
11:31:16 * ZirconiumX doesn't like coffee
11:31:56 <ZirconiumX> I do - just not the horrible fairtrade stuff that has an aftertaste that stays for an hour or two
11:32:10 * ZirconiumX prefers Cona Coffee
11:32:56 <Terkhen> fighting with bugs in libraries :) (translation: not doing anything fun)
11:33:41 <ZirconiumX> cheating and looking in someone else's code (translation: It's OK,
11:33:49 <ZirconiumX> Terkhen)
11:34:03 <ZirconiumX> :p
11:34:57 <ZirconiumX> Well - _mostly_ someone else's work
11:37:41 * ZirconiumX is rewriting magic for the third time with assertions and something that actually works
11:40:23 <Alberth> the latter is useful :)
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11:40:54 <ZirconiumX> the second one worked - but was based on someone else's code
11:41:15 <ZirconiumX> which is useless if you want to say it's MINE
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11:41:54 * Terkhen usually don't mind as long as it's done
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11:43:44 <ZirconiumX> What's the difference between an int blah, an int *blah, and an int &blah
11:43:56 <ZirconiumX> in C++
11:43:59 <ZirconiumX> or C
11:44:02 <ZirconiumX> whatever
11:45:14 <Terkhen> hmm... too long to explain here (specially pointers); you should check a C/C++ tutorial or book
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11:56:57 <Alberth> int blah1 holds an int, int *blah2 holds a pointer to such an int, and int &blah3 is a reference, it behaves as an int, but uses a pointer internally
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11:58:26 <ZirconiumX> thanks Alberth
11:59:36 <Alberth> unfortunately, my explanation does not make much sense unless you understand pointers
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12:09:19 <ashmir> hi guys. I'm searching for the parametters of the command newgame, can someone help me?
12:10:05 <Alberth> no idea what you are talking about
12:10:19 <ashmir> rcon pwd newgame a b c d for example
12:10:19 <Alberth> oh in the console perhaps?
12:10:34 <ashmir> but i dont know what's abcd
12:10:37 <ashmir> yes
12:11:23 <Terkhen> ashmir: use "help newgame"
12:11:42 <Alberth> but that just gives a single optional argument 'seed'
12:12:03 <ashmir> yes :/
12:12:25 <Terkhen> does it have more parameters?
12:12:30 <Alberth> I am guessing that 'rcon' is something else
12:12:37 <Alberth> Terkhen nope
12:12:56 <Terkhen> rcon is used to send commands to the server
12:13:15 <ZirconiumX> r(emote) con(trol)
12:13:17 <Terkhen> but the right syntax is: rcon pwd "newgame a"
12:13:18 <ZirconiumX> rcon
12:13:36 <Alberth> by what? that's what should document the parameters
12:14:10 <ZirconiumX> us
12:14:33 * Terkhen is a bit lost :)
12:14:47 <ZirconiumX> PM please explain to Alberth, how openttdcoop uses rcon to create a new game
12:14:47 * Alberth gives Terkhen a few bits
12:15:52 <ZirconiumX> planetmaker appears to be busy
12:15:54 <Alberth> ok, so it is another console command :p
12:16:20 <Terkhen> yes
12:16:22 <Alberth> well, ashmir, it seems to have only one new parameter, not 4
12:16:28 <Chris_Booth> Alberth !rcon in openttdcoop is a command used to tell autopilot what to do
12:16:39 <Chris_Booth> rcon typed into the game console is different
12:16:39 <ashmir> i used rcon ****** newgame 0 9 9 0 for example, it generate a temperate new game with many towns and industries
12:16:53 <Chris_Booth> and most the commands that the both use are different
12:16:57 <Terkhen> ashmir: newgame has only a single parameter, the seed
12:17:21 <ZirconiumX> maybe 0 means ransom seed
12:17:21 <Terkhen> for configuring the other parts of new game creation you must configure each setting before using newgame
12:17:29 <ZirconiumX> random seed
12:17:39 <Alberth> ashmir: so you use another piece of software with an rcon command; you should ask its author
12:18:02 <ashmir> ok, thank you.
12:18:22 <Alberth> or better, submit a documentation patch to them :)
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12:33:33 <ZirconiumX> Hmmm
12:33:58 <ZirconiumX> Ice cream man must be insane
12:34:16 <ZirconiumX> It's a grey, miserable day, still raining
12:34:51 <ZirconiumX> yet he's out to give ice creams
12:35:59 <__ln__> you mean the day is sunshinely challenged
12:36:18 <ZirconiumX> extremely sunshinely challenged
12:36:55 <ZirconiumX> I bet he's got those rose tinted spectacles on
12:37:18 <Alberth> he's reharsing for tomorrow or monday :)
12:37:29 <ZirconiumX> (idiom, he doesn't actually have rose tinted spectacles on)
12:39:05 <ZirconiumX> meh
12:39:14 <ZirconiumX> Xcode comes with gdb
12:39:25 <ZirconiumX> which allows the program to run
12:39:42 <ZirconiumX> but not to take input
12:39:53 <ZirconiumX> so as soon as it prompts for input...
12:40:08 <ZirconiumX> the debugger's useless
12:40:21 <ZirconiumX> it's an anti-debugger
12:40:59 <ZirconiumX> Argh!
12:41:03 <ZirconiumX> Linker failure
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16:29:45 <supermop> so just wrote my first email in german
16:30:53 <__ln__> excellent
16:32:01 <supermop> very
16:32:07 <supermop> its also really stilted
16:32:18 <supermop> but i havent written in german since 2003
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16:38:33 <__ln__> (sfw)
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17:56:03 <MNIM> so, it's now 1939 and Im already overloading parts of my double tracked network near my starting cities
17:56:08 <MNIM> hmmmmmmh.
17:56:20 <MNIM> and what's worse - absolutely no space for quad-track
17:58:50 <Terkhen> longer trains?
18:00:15 <MNIM> all passenger trains are five long
18:00:25 <MNIM> no space for longer stations either
18:00:37 <MNIM> this is getting promising for when I reach 2000
18:02:05 <Terkhen> yes, passengers overflow networks quickly :P
18:02:31 <MNIM> so it seems
18:02:53 <Terkhen> I have sometimes played with town growth disabled, so I can control passenger flow a bit better
18:02:57 <Terkhen> but that's "cheating" :P
18:03:48 <MNIM> well, that's an option too, but then other cities won't develop naturally
18:04:07 <MNIM> don't really care about cheating, since Im a sandbox player anyway
18:05:44 <Terkhen> another option is disabling "town build roads"; then towns have a small margin of growth and after that you can build roads for them
18:06:25 <MNIM> yeah, Ive got that already
18:06:50 <MNIM>
18:07:00 <MNIM> that's what my main metro zone looks like right now
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18:08:18 <MNIM> based around a big fjord, with giant 800 pax ferries moving around people to relieve the rail network a bit
18:08:19 * Alberth likes the fake harbours
18:08:27 <MNIM> marico newgrf
18:09:19 <MNIM> you can only build 'em in scedit, and it's got some bugs with building 'em like more scenery stuff does, but it does look pretty neat indeed
18:09:51 <MNIM> hmmmmh
18:10:19 <MNIM> I should build more buses to transfer passengers between those cities too
18:10:52 <Terkhen> the docks looks nice indeed :)
18:10:55 <Terkhen> why only in SE?
18:12:15 <MNIM> dunno, it's scenery like windmills, radio transmitters etc, so maybe they're inherently limited to scedit
18:12:26 <MNIM>
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18:12:32 <MNIM> a bit more rural scene.
18:12:43 <MNIM> and if you may feel the urge to ask, yes, I am indeed dutch :P
18:14:11 <MNIM> Not sure how good the load of a heavy train passing at 160kmh is for a sea dike, but oh well :P
18:15:19 <Terkhen> that's a strange limitation IMO; I'm able to build objects in normal games with othet objects NewGRFs
18:15:27 <Alberth> at least the sea level is not rising :p
18:15:33 <Terkhen> and that last link gives "file not found" to me
18:15:48 <MNIM> 0-o
18:15:50 <MNIM> de hell
18:15:53 <MNIM> it does for me too
18:16:19 <MNIM> hmmmmh
18:16:23 <MNIM> wait a second
18:17:06 <MNIM>
18:17:09 <MNIM> yeah, this works
18:17:22 <MNIM> I think that was just an ascii code too much or something
18:18:40 * Alberth can place marico objects in a game
18:19:10 <MNIM> 0-o
18:19:17 <MNIM> huh.
18:19:19 <MNIM> oh well
18:19:35 <MNIM> then Ill have to blame it on my misuse of newgrfs
18:19:40 * MNIM shrugs
18:19:47 <MNIM> there are ways around it anyway
18:20:06 <MNIM> since I frequently dive into the scedit to add rivers and make big landscape changes anyway
18:20:06 <Alberth> not really
18:20:06 <Terkhen> strange, I can't :P
18:20:17 <Terkhen> maybe we have an older version
18:20:48 <Alberth> that could be the case, I run (almost) trunk
18:21:16 <MNIM> trunk, as in, latest standard nightlies?
18:21:54 <Terkhen> no, an older version of marico
18:22:06 <MNIM> could be too
18:22:10 <Alberth> usually not, I build directly from the latest svn sources
18:22:15 <MNIM> oh.
18:22:21 <MNIM> yeah, that may be the case, too
18:22:24 <Alberth> Terkhen: also a possible explanation
18:22:51 <MNIM> since mine is the lates stable .deb release if I'm not mistaken
18:23:08 <Terkhen> I downloaded the latest version of marico and I still can't build anything with 1.1.1
18:23:33 <MNIM> 1.1.1-RC1. to be precisew
18:23:37 <MNIM> *precise
18:24:05 <Alberth>
18:25:45 <Terkhen> heh, I can't even build anything on the SE :P
18:26:15 * MNIM makes preemptive save
18:26:16 <Alberth> good, less distraction :p
18:27:20 <MNIM> to whom, alberth?
18:27:23 <MNIM> 0-o
18:27:27 <Alberth> to Terkhen
18:27:33 <MNIM> ah, lol
18:27:34 <MNIM> well
18:27:43 * Terkhen goes back to writing documentation :P
18:27:49 <MNIM> to me ottd is a wayyyy to big distraction already anyway
18:27:59 <Terkhen> I should delete the binaries I have around too
18:28:02 <MNIM> and my add does not exactly help :P
18:28:43 <MNIM> hmmmh, odd, newgrf settings does not see the new file, even after rescanning
18:29:01 <Alberth> my file?
18:29:21 <Alberth> it hides older versions I think
18:29:28 <MNIM> so it seems
18:29:36 <Terkhen> Alberth's file is identical to the one I had
18:29:56 <MNIM> I renamed the new file to marico2.grf
18:30:21 <MNIM> and now it automatically loads marico2.grf, even though I made no changes in newgrf settings
18:30:24 <Alberth> so I am up to date :)
18:30:47 <MNIM> I take it ottd does not handle newgrfs by filename
18:31:05 <Terkhen> regarding savegames it uses the GRFID
18:31:06 <MNIM> whelp, yeah
18:31:17 <MNIM> now I can build in-game indeed
18:31:24 <Alberth> and md5 checksum
18:31:45 <Terkhen> strange :O
18:32:06 <MNIM> don't think I see new features though, so it does not look like an incredibly big jump in versions
18:32:34 <Alberth> I don't know, I just pulled a random version for testing
18:32:45 <MNIM> lol
18:32:47 <Terkhen> I don't remember any recent updates
18:32:52 <Alberth> (while hacking the newgrf object gui
18:33:07 <MNIM> oh, hacky hacky!
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18:36:35 <MNIM> heh
18:37:13 <MNIM> you know your train is long when you need four locs to pull it
18:39:42 <Alberth> holland is not that big :)
18:40:19 <MNIM> nope, but my mix of scandinavia - netherlands is
18:40:26 <MNIM> 1024^2
18:40:43 <MNIM> also, most of our freight traffic on rails is actually international
18:40:49 <Alberth> oh, big. I always get lost with anything > 512*512 :)
18:40:52 <MNIM> rotterdam - france and such
18:41:03 <MNIM> I use flags for general areas
18:42:07 <MNIM> also, I use space I don't use (yet) as practice space for junctions and stations
18:44:24 <MNIM> hmmmmh
18:44:39 <MNIM> how far are the people working on realistic breakdowns?
18:45:08 <MNIM> it's really annoying that a train with four locs still completely breaks down as often as trains with only one
18:45:59 <supermop> In locomotion it would have broken down four times as often
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18:48:36 <MNIM> ouch
18:49:23 <MNIM> well, if that four times as often meant that only one lock broke down with a horsepower+torque penalty, yes please
18:49:29 <MNIM> but not a complete standstill!
18:50:53 <MNIM> oh, no wonder their efficiency dropped
18:51:03 <MNIM> I forgot some advanced settings >.
18:53:22 <supermop> it was awful for trains of multiple units,
18:53:40 <supermop> as you had to manually pick up a train to replace it when it was old,
18:53:56 <supermop> and you had to stop the train to pick it up
18:54:20 <supermop> but you coulding stop a running train if it (or any part of its consist) was broken down,
18:54:37 <MNIM> ouch
18:54:40 <MNIM> hmmmh
18:55:02 <supermop> so if you let a train get to about 70-80% of its expected life by accident,
18:55:12 <MNIM> I should stop ottd-ing now and make food
18:55:30 <supermop> you would be stuck with it crawling around at about 5 mph forever
18:55:52 <supermop> as each unit brokedown as soon as, or before the last was fixed
18:56:18 <supermop> pretty much the only solution was to crash it RCT style
18:57:11 <andythenorth> sounds like US railroading in the 70s
18:57:20 <andythenorth> 10 units on a train
18:57:23 <andythenorth> only 2 are online :P
19:03:48 <supermop> haha
19:06:26 <andythenorth> NewBreakdowns :p
19:08:50 <MNIM> is it working properly yet?
19:15:49 <supermop> what are you working on these days Andy?
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19:18:01 <andythenorth> FIRS
19:19:03 <supermop> nice
19:29:13 <Alberth> playing a test-game, or painting snow pixels?
19:35:09 <andythenorth> painting
19:36:27 <supermop> neat
19:36:54 <supermop> i'm not sure if I've really played at all in 2011 yet
19:39:37 <supermop> been too frustrated with map generation
19:41:47 <Alberth> supermop: andy needs test players ;)
19:45:11 <supermop> hmm
19:45:29 <supermop> I could make another map by hand
19:46:23 <supermop> any one have a suggestion for getting a steady shot for a ~90 minute continuous video take out of a train window
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19:46:54 <supermop> ?
19:47:24 * MNIM burps
19:47:27 <MNIM> oops
19:47:29 <MNIM> my fault
19:47:32 <MNIM> I was hungry
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19:48:30 <andythenorth> supermop:
19:48:34 <andythenorth> approximately
19:48:56 <andythenorth> you'd need a table seat
19:49:12 <andythenorth> you'll likely get some vibration, but it's the best way
19:50:21 <supermop> no tables on NJT
19:50:23 <andythenorth>
19:50:40 <supermop> strictly packed in commuter seats
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19:51:16 <supermop> bombardier bi-levels, old comets, or even older Budd EMUs
19:51:35 <supermop> i can get a window sill though
19:51:56 <supermop> haha
19:52:08 <supermop> i think the steadycam would get me some wierd looks
19:53:00 <supermop> ws thinking one of those squishy beanbag tripods could be good, as the sill is sloped, and it might dampen some vibration
20:12:10 <supermop> maybe a lump of plasticine with a set screw in it
20:20:23 <planetmaker> wow... translators are also lazy, eh?
20:22:30 <Alberth> perhaps we should rename some random strings :p
20:22:51 <planetmaker> :-P
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20:25:57 <Oliver_> What irc server is this?
20:26:31 <planetmaker> erm?
20:26:47 <Alberth> one of oftc,net
20:26:50 <Oliver_> is in the webirc, couldnt se what irc server its on
20:27:20 <planetmaker> aye
20:27:23 <planetmaker> :-)
20:27:34 <Alberth> these things live in just one server?
20:28:07 <Oliver_> Se if i add it to my mirc settings when i have time
20:28:16 <Oliver_> miht be intresting channel to be in
20:28:47 <Terkhen> Oliver_: IIRC
20:29:31 <Oliver_> Btw, for the osx version, do i need to download all music gfx and just add the folders to the gamefolder?
20:30:19 <planetmaker> the onlything strictly needed are the game graphics
20:30:29 <planetmaker> which go into ~/Documents/OpenTTD/data
20:30:38 <planetmaker> the rest then can be obtained via ingame content download
20:30:44 <planetmaker> including sound and music set(s)
20:30:57 <Oliver_> cant open the game in osx it says it need graphic
20:31:03 <planetmaker> yes :-)
20:31:10 <planetmaker> [22:30] planetmaker the onlything strictly needed are the game graphics
20:31:24 <planetmaker> get them from
20:32:42 <Ammler> maybe osx version should include opengfx in the bundle
20:33:56 <planetmaker> we first need a working CF for OSX again
20:34:03 <Ammler> ah ok :-)
20:34:25 <Ammler> did that not survive the migration?
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20:34:44 <planetmaker> nope :-(
20:35:35 <Ammler> then you should again think about macports :-P
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20:38:12 <Alberth> good night
20:38:40 <planetmaker> g'night Alberth
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21:32:45 <Rubidium> Ammler: no, it should have an installer
21:33:17 <Rubidium> and first the CF needs to work properly again at all before I'm going to waste time on OSX; maybe by that time OSX works properly in Xen
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21:43:32 <pikka> ew
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21:56:50 <andythenorth> ew?
21:59:12 <pikka> largely
21:59:39 <pikka> seen any orudge this morning?
22:00:26 <andythenorth> not so much no
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22:06:46 <pikka> perhaps he is sleeping still
22:07:16 <pikka> oh well, I'll wander
22:07:41 * andythenorth will go to bed
22:07:55 <andythenorth> good night
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22:20:25 <Terkhen> good night
22:27:15 <Wolf01> 'night all
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22:45:26 <Lyzio> Evening folks
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