IRC logs for #openttd on OFTC at 2011-04-29
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07:52:34 <peter1138> how long does it take for yacd to reroute after changing vehicle orders?
07:55:06 <peter1138> oh, and yapf is recommended for ships now?
07:56:20 <peter1138> hmm, right, new passengers want to take the new route, existing passengers with the old route still want to take the (non-existant) old route :S
07:57:20 <dihedral> i noticed i am missing a highlight
08:02:27 <peter1138> when did yapf get preferred for ships?
08:03:39 <planetmaker> peter1138: about one, two weeks ago or so
08:04:33 <DorpsGek> planetmaker: Commit by smatz :: r22352 /trunk/src (lang/english.txt table/settings.ini) (2011-04-19 18:47:36 UTC)
08:04:34 <DorpsGek> planetmaker: -Change: make YAPF the default pathfinder for ships, don't discourage players from using it
08:05:09 <DorpsGek> planetmaker: Commit by smatz :: r22350 /trunk/src/pathfinder/yapf (3 files) (2011-04-19 18:12:47 UTC)
08:05:10 <DorpsGek> planetmaker: -Change: make YAPF hash tables much smaller, it should improve performance significantly (about 15%)
08:05:12 <dihedral> that's what i meant ^^
08:05:34 <peter1138> also, yacd seems to prefer my 15 passenger 40km/h busses over my 100 passenger 32km/h ship :(
08:06:07 <planetmaker> speed plays a role; you can somehow tweak the balancing in the cfg (but not via rcon)
08:06:32 <peter1138> yes but 'bandwidth' should be more important
08:06:43 <Terkhen> tourists should prefer the ship, it has better views :)
08:06:43 <dihedral> general speed plays a role, or time taken to travel from A to B?
08:06:47 <dihedral> which could make a huge difference
08:07:01 <peter1138> yeah, the bus is quicker, for 15 passengers
08:07:08 <peter1138> but for 100 passengers, the ship owns it
08:07:35 <dihedral> peter1138, try to make the bus route longer, so the ship would arrive first :-)
08:07:41 <dihedral> and see what that thing does
08:11:41 <peter1138> can't really, it's a short internal hop in a town
08:12:20 <peter1138> problem was the town's docks were originally on the south coast
08:12:25 <peter1138> which has a little bus stop
08:12:40 <peter1138> the town then got a station in the town centre
08:13:01 <peter1138> the bus cannot cope with the volume of traffic from the station to the docks
08:13:20 <peter1138> so they (heh!) built a new docks to the east, attached to the station
08:13:50 <peter1138> the ship now goes only to the east docks
08:14:04 <peter1138> but passengers still wait for the bus to the old docks
08:15:27 <peter1138> if i make the ship go via the old docks, then every passenger wants to go via the bus again
08:15:31 <peter1138> because that bus is faster
08:15:39 <peter1138> even though they have to wait months for the bus
08:16:29 <peter1138> maybe i should be telling michi this :p
08:17:24 <Terkhen> so it does not take station ratings into account?
08:17:35 <LordAro> gah, i compile yacd v1.0, only to find that 1.1 is out :L
08:17:48 <Terkhen> there is a binary for 1.1 IIRC
08:22:23 <peter1138> gah, i have £14k left :p
08:22:40 <peter1138> my loan is maxed out :S
08:23:46 <Terkhen> peter1138: yacd is quite good at making you go bankrupt :P
08:24:16 <LordAro> how to tidy up a messed up mercurial clone? hg revert --all still leaves all the .orig and .rej files...
08:24:16 <peter1138> i'm starting to make a profit now
08:24:28 <Terkhen> I failed my first two games, I still have to start a third one
08:24:36 <peter1138> i'm using tai as well, so there's not that many passengers either
08:24:41 <Terkhen> LordAro: hg purge will remove all unversioned files
08:24:47 <Terkhen> IIRC it is an extension, though
08:24:58 <Terkhen> google to see how to enable it
08:25:17 <Terkhen> something like "purge =" in your .hgrc under [extension], probably
08:55:15 * LordAro think he's messed up his mq repo again...
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08:59:22 <LordAro> also, yacd is easy, why is everyone finding it so hard?
08:59:41 <Terkhen> did you remember to add the aditional files from yacd to mercurial?
08:59:49 <Terkhen> or better, use hg qimport
09:00:06 <Terkhen> although I'm not sure if that will work from git to hg
09:02:50 <LordAro> Terkhen: not yacd, my readme project :)
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09:04:09 <ZirconiumX> Well, you can't help some things
09:04:37 <Ammler> Terkhen: it does, it is even recommended to use git patches for hg
09:07:48 <Wolf01> bah, I was thinking about continue the development of my NADP, but I don't have any idea :(
09:08:31 <Wolf01> not another daylength patch
09:10:08 <wahyu> hi all, I use Open TTd and using normal train. But at the year 2030 all the locomptive were extinct. All my trains are old and need urgent replacing. What should I do then? Any idea, anybody?
09:10:59 <Wolf01> switch to maglev or use a newgrf or, last but not least, turn off the vehicle expiring
09:11:48 <Wolf01> the grf thing needs a new game
09:12:18 <wahyu> can I load new grf while the game runs? or should I star a new one?
09:12:33 <Terkhen> you should start a new one
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09:17:23 <wahyu> terkhen: I am new on this game. what grf should I take before playing the game. so that I could use normal train first and could upgrade to some rail type anytime the rail type release/ launch?
09:17:49 <Terkhen> you don't need any newgrfs for that, the default trains already have different types
09:17:53 <Terkhen> check the wiki page I pasted to you
09:23:19 <wahyu> terkhen : when I click on the rail construction button on my game. it does not show any choices of rails I could take (like the wiki page shows). It only have one rail type.
09:23:37 <V453000> yes, others come available later
09:23:57 <V453000> it is written on the wiki page after all
09:24:04 <wahyu> or maybe my open ttd is the older version?
09:24:08 <Terkhen> if you are past the dates mentioned in the wiki you should check your newgrf selection; if you are not experienced with the game you should start by playing without any newgrf
09:24:35 <Terkhen> you should wait until you know how to play the standard game to try newgrfs
09:25:25 <V453000> or see what is the newgrf content, so you do not expect for example monorail somewhere where it isnt (most newgrfs dont have it
09:26:31 <wahyu> LordAro, yes it's me :P
09:27:19 <V453000> to stop trains dying out, just use "vehicles never expire: on" in the vehicles menu
09:27:21 <dihedral> i do not see how that could highlight me!!
09:27:44 <ZirconiumX> OpenTTD version 1 <-- Nonexistent
09:28:48 <wahyu> V453000, oke I'll use this first while I study further just like terkhen advised me before.
09:30:09 <wahyu> anybody knows, where should I donwload new version of Open TTD, the newer version. i use version 1.
09:30:22 <planetmaker> what about openttd.org?
09:32:50 <V453000> google is your friend
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11:48:03 <Terkhen> yacd makes me wish that default primary industries could cluster
11:50:32 <V453000> opengfx+ industries cluster? :o
11:50:56 <Ammler> yes, well Terken needs to implement it first
11:51:18 <Terkhen> I just started a new game with FIRS :)
11:51:39 <Terkhen> everything in ogfx+ industries is switchable, but clustering sounds complicated to implement :P
11:51:55 <Ammler> yacd and firs sounds quite complicated
11:52:05 <Terkhen> if they cluster I have an easier time sending all cargo of the same time to a central station
11:52:26 <Terkhen> then I can redistribute the to the different destinations from there
11:53:33 <V453000> hm, what about to test yacd on our .dev? :)
11:55:07 <Ammler> yacd should work for sp first, imo
11:55:18 <Ammler> then you can start to test also MP
11:55:57 <Ammler> I guess, that is the plan from michi_cc, when he likes to provide bins
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12:44:39 <V453000> "local destinations" in yacd mean within the town?
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12:52:07 <Eddi|zuHause> ... i haven't a clue what "other destinations" means though...
12:52:51 <DanMacK> OK... I need a JASC palette file...
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12:53:15 <planetmaker> I don't *know* either, but an idea is, Eddi|zuHause , that it's that cargo which got changed to 'any' destination or alike
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13:28:44 <planetmaker> hi Lakie & Belugas
13:29:52 <Lakie> I've been wondering, for tenders of steamers is it best to use a generic 'tender wagon' and use livery overrides or to use a trimmed down copy of the engine itself?
13:32:02 <Belugas> hi to you too mister make of planet :)
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13:50:57 <planetmaker> could someone please give me a screenshot of all bridge types from toyland climate in TTD?
13:54:27 <TWerkhoven> opengfx or original gfx?
13:54:40 <planetmaker> TTD has no choice of base sets
13:54:48 <Lakie> You mean from TTD / TTDPatch?
13:54:53 <planetmaker> I mean the original game, yes ^
13:55:09 <planetmaker> I've no problem creating them from OpenTTD myself ;-)
13:55:35 <planetmaker> I wonder about the colours
13:55:36 <Lakie> Don't have any version of TTD installed really, sorry.
13:55:48 <planetmaker> they look too uniformily coloured
13:56:19 <planetmaker> I have... crashing in the main menu :-P
13:56:30 <Terkhen> does it crash with dosbox too?
13:56:45 <Lakie> Heh, depends on OS' and such
13:57:12 <Terkhen> strange, it has platinum rank on appdb
13:57:13 <Lakie> The white bridge looks a bit wron in the screenshot, planetmaker
13:57:20 <TWerkhoven> but wouldnt the bridges in ottd look identical to original ttd when using the standard gfx set?
13:57:34 <planetmaker> Lakie: yes. That's what got me there in the first place
13:57:37 <Terkhen> TWerkhoven: they should, unless there is a bug in openttd
13:57:42 <Terkhen> which is probably the point of his request
13:57:45 <planetmaker> TWerkhoven: they should, yes
13:58:09 <Terkhen> planetmaker: appdb mentions that it does not work in full screen
13:58:44 <Ammler> [15:54] <planetmaker> TTD has no choice of base sets <-- we release a ttdp version of opengfx :-)
13:58:59 <Terkhen> is that tested in TTD?
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14:00:02 <planetmaker> Ammler: I know... but I wanted to keep the confusion low
14:00:07 <Ammler> planetmaker: a screen with ogfx bridges is useless?
14:00:19 <Ammler> because I have no ttd with original set
14:00:47 <planetmaker> though... might be interesting, too
14:00:52 * TWerkhoven is looking through old archived folders
14:01:31 <planetmaker> btw, Terkhen : OpenTTD 0.6.0 looks the same as my screenshots already shown
14:01:48 <planetmaker> and 0.2.0 doesn't start for me... testing others
14:02:39 <planetmaker> bah. 0.3.0 comes with an installer and calls itself Open Transport Tycoon
14:02:50 <Terkhen> then either I did not manage to play until I built a bridge or my eyes were already perceiving everything wrong at that point
14:03:34 <Lakie> The colours are pretty uniform in TTDPatch also, planetmaker
14:04:01 <planetmaker> hm, thanks, Lakie
14:04:10 <planetmaker> I wonder if that's good or bad :-)
14:04:26 <Lakie> Depends on point of view, I guess
14:04:27 <planetmaker> or if that's related to the three unused recolour sprites in the base sets
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14:05:21 <planetmaker> Lakie: I mostly wonder as it makes indistinguishable those bridge types which usually are subject to re-colouring
14:05:39 <planetmaker> like suspension and girder steel
14:06:01 <Lakie> I'm not sure about in stock ttd, but I imagine it'll be the same roughly
14:06:19 <Terkhen> the colour of the grounds looks quite wrong IMO
14:06:27 <Terkhen> but with opengfx it looks fine
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14:06:41 <planetmaker> that's probably wanted, if you look at the base set sprites, Terkhen
14:06:52 <planetmaker> toyland has its separate sprites there
14:07:03 <planetmaker> and un-re-coloured they look like that
14:07:30 <Terkhen> hmm... then it makes no sense :P
14:07:54 <planetmaker> what does with toyland colours? ;-)
14:08:34 <Ammler> I have "Fatal nforenum error!" with ogfx
14:08:44 <Lakie> You would have thought toyland would just replace those recolour maps with its own versions
14:08:46 <planetmaker> hm, yes, sorry. Let me fix it
14:09:51 <planetmaker> I forgot to push the fix. I had it for hours ;-)
14:10:57 <Ammler> hmm, ogfx doesn't have toyland bridges, does it?
14:11:21 <Ammler> so a screen with it is useless, right :-)
14:11:43 <planetmaker> not quite; maybe a re-colouring would show
14:12:03 <Ammler> maybe I find somewhere the original graphcis
14:14:10 <Ammler> you still need a screen?
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14:15:19 <planetmaker> it would be interesting to have it confirmed with somewhat vanilla TTD, yes
14:25:07 <Ammler> planetmaker: that what you like ^ ?
14:25:49 <planetmaker> honestly? Neither.
14:26:00 <V453000> now tell me which is more awesome! TOYLAND :)
14:26:01 <planetmaker> But thanks for those screenshots :-)
14:26:20 <planetmaker> They tell me that it's not an OpenTTD bug with the colours
14:26:29 <planetmaker> You gave me what I needed, thanks :-)
14:26:40 <Ammler> ah, but you don't like it :-)
14:26:47 <planetmaker> But I don't really like... yes :-)
14:27:32 <Ammler> I made some symlinks, so in future it should be easy to switch baseset on ttdp
14:28:05 <Ammler> and it needs around 5 times longer to start with opengfx
14:28:17 <V453000> ttdp didnt have opengfx available?
14:28:40 <Ammler> V453000: we release a ttdp version since quite some time already
14:28:44 <planetmaker> V453000: there's a version ^
14:29:03 <V453000> I was just interested, not that i care much :)
14:29:23 <planetmaker> because we can, of course ;-)
14:29:25 <Ammler> well, I guess you can count those users with one hand
14:29:26 <V453000> anyway, I will be going, cya
14:32:24 <planetmaker> so, I guess I'll keep the pink toyland style
14:32:34 <planetmaker> or at least that's something separate
14:32:56 <planetmaker> thanks for the help Lakie and Ammler
14:33:20 <planetmaker> and also Terkhen :-)
14:33:24 <Ammler> any other ttdp screen you need :-P
15:03:40 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: planetmaker * r22378 /trunk/src/table/bridge_land.h: -Fix: The recolouring scheme applied to the silicon bridge recoloured too much
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15:09:07 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: planetmaker * r22379 /trunk/media/extra_grf/ (fix_graphics.nfo fix_graphics.png): -Fix: Not all pixels which need recolouring were actually in the proper colour
15:09:41 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: planetmaker * r22380 /trunk/bin/data/ (openttd.grf orig_dos.obg orig_dos_de.obg orig_win.obg): -Fix: Update openttd.grf and the base set description files accordingly
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15:26:26 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: planetmaker * r22381 /trunk/src/ (49 files in 2 dirs): -Codechange: It's called 'steel', not 'steele'
15:27:04 <planetmaker> now everything will re-compile :-P
15:27:57 <Terkhen> wow, quite a big typo :)
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16:12:50 <ZirconiumX> Hopefully no-one will hack me
16:14:39 <Eddi|zuHause> was that a challenge?
16:15:41 <planetmaker> Eddi|zuHause: sounds like, yes
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16:27:19 <michi_cc> Eddi|zuHause: "other destinations" is the default bucket where stuff gets account as when no other links applies, for example passengers to headquarters or if no link is usable because acceptance changed but the destinations wheren't updated yet. It's there so I can skip all the if list is empty stuff.
16:31:19 <michi_cc> peter1138: The actual links are updated immediately, but the cached next hop info in the cargo packets is updated in chunks over time to prevent noticeable pauses. Updates are only ever done when a vehicle actually arrives, so the display might take some time to refresh.
16:32:33 <michi_cc> peter1138: And for your ship situation: The routing does take cargo waiting on a route link into account. For your case, increase pf.yapf.route_station_waiting_factor (to penalize waiting cargo more) and/or decrease pf.yapf.route_travel_time_factor (to make speed count less). Both settinsg can be chaned in the in-game console.
16:34:01 <michi_cc> Got a save that shows it/instructions to reproduce?
16:43:28 <peter1138> hmm, changed the orders on a ship and it still loaded with passengers for the old orders :(
16:46:08 <peter1138> and... didn't unload
16:46:18 <peter1138> so yeah, changing orders around doesn't work as expected, afaics
16:46:37 <romazoon> but if you use a unload order it shoudl be fine, isn t it?
16:47:05 <peter1138> i forced the ship to unload, yes
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16:47:28 <peter1138> i guess that might be a byproduct of the old "don't unload at the station you loaded from" code
16:47:36 <peter1138> which probably isn't necessary with cargodest
16:47:57 <peter1138> (it shouldn't've loaded in the first place, mind you)
16:49:52 <michi_cc> Changing orders is supposed to invalidate the next hop, if you can give me a description what you did exactly (and maybe even a save), that would be great.
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16:59:40 <flitz> I've got a weird problem: I defined a command and called it, it executes but when DoCommand(...) wants to return a result, the application crashes
17:00:20 <flitz> gdb says "0x00000000 in ?? ()", like there is some stack inconsistency and it can't retrieve the program counter or something
17:00:42 <Yexo> please upload a patch, otherwise it'll be come random guesswork
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17:09:12 <flitz> I think I need a little clarification where a Callback becomes relevant when you call DoCommand(_,_,_,DC_EXEC, SOME_COMMAND)
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17:10:04 <Yexo> flitz: might be unrelated, but in general you should call DoCommandP, not DoCommand (unless it's from another command)
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17:11:42 <flitz> Yexo: ok. I also just tested it and called cmd_build_vehicle as an example from DoCommand() and caller stack of the command function looked good
17:12:12 <flitz> if I do the same for my own command, the caller stack is zero, don't see the reason why right now
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17:13:49 <Yexo> again, can you upload your patch as it is now?
17:17:27 <flitz> if I just "svn diff > somefile.patch" and upload that, it would be enough, right ?
17:17:45 <planetmaker> if you added new files, then not
17:17:52 <Eddi|zuHause> hm... missing a boat for delivering 1-5 crates of supplies :p
17:19:11 <flitz> planetmaker: I "svn add"ed them already
17:20:05 <Yexo> yes, that would be enough
17:25:01 <Yexo> which call causes the crash?
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17:26:51 <flitz> its the aaa_mygui.cpp:235 - DoCommand(7232, 988, 0, DC_EXEC, CMD_BUILD_TEMPLATE_VEHICLE);
17:27:27 <flitz> but this command still executes, its only that the DoCommand() function has a 0-parent frame when it wants to return
17:30:24 <flitz> its definitely after my own command got called in the non-test case, afterwards the return value is zeroed
17:32:25 <Rubidium> + TemplateVehicle **ret;
17:32:57 <Rubidium> passing pointers to/from commands is definitely a no-go
17:32:59 <flitz> this doesn't make sense, taking it out solves it
17:33:45 <flitz> I took this idea from "CommandCost CmdBuildRailVehicle(TileIndex tile, DoCommandFlag flags, const Engine *e, uint16 data, Vehicle **ret)" in train_cmd.cpp
17:33:46 <Rubidium> well, you're overwriting "random" memory
17:34:10 <flitz> I know, it is still there only by accident, didn't see it before
17:34:11 <Rubidium> then that's not really a command, but more a helper
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17:35:11 <Rubidium> (the CmdBuildRailVehicle that is)
17:35:26 <flitz> the **ret value was only a left-over, I know that I shouldn't write to uninitialized pointers ;)
17:36:03 <flitz> and yep, the cmdbuildrailvehicle is only called from within CmdBuildVehicle (which is a real command)
17:37:56 <flitz> I better take this off the forum again, before anybody sees it...
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18:08:39 <Lakie> Um, when I set a train with "0B \wx955" why do I get a train with 968 power ingame?
18:09:04 <Rubidium> 955 imperial hp = 968 metric hp?
18:09:20 <Lakie> I keep forgetting about imperial and metrics..
18:09:48 <Rubidium> yay... WolframAlpha confirms the plausibility of my hypothesis ;)
18:11:06 <supermop> One Emperor = 1.014 metric Heads of State?
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19:15:30 <Eddi|zuHause> feature request: in the refit gui, redraw the vehicle according to the selected refit
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19:27:59 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: planetmaker * r22382 /trunk/src/lang/unfinished/ (frisian.txt thai.txt): -Fix (r22381): Apply the change of string names also to the unfinished translations
19:32:49 <Twerkhoven[L]> whoa, there's frisian?
19:36:14 <LordAro> upgrade to ubuntu 11.04 started. see you on the other side! hopefully it won't knock out my video driver in the process, like it did last time...
19:39:18 <Eddi|zuHause> the gmund mog really smokes a lot...
19:44:13 <Eddi|zuHause> and a bug report: you can't move a wagon to the front of a free wagon chain, only 2nd and onwards
19:44:40 <LordAro> or rather not, as my computer seems to be refusing to 'download the release notes'
19:46:14 <rizzuh> what path do I need to pass to configure to install ottd into /usr/games, as well as data into /usr/share/games?
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19:49:18 <flitz> gives: "--binary-dir=dir location of the binary. Will be prefixed"
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19:49:43 <flitz> and similar for --data-dir
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19:58:11 <flitz> rizzuh: Sry, I didn't read your question right at first, that you asked for the path to give But have you figured it out ?
19:58:32 <rizzuh> reading though configure help
19:59:13 <rizzuh> it seems the defaults would install in /usr/local, but they don't
19:59:23 <rizzuh> sudo make install results in a bin directory in the source dir with all the files
19:59:37 <rizzuh> and nothing in /usr at all
19:59:49 <rizzuh> (well I suppose the /bin is result of make)
19:59:53 <flitz> you need to ".configure --data-dir /usr/share/games --binary-dir /usr/games" and then "make && make install"
20:00:03 <flitz> "./configure" of course
20:00:25 <planetmaker> the binary in the source dir is the one which has been compiled. Only once that is done install installs it into the default path. Which is /usr/local/bin
20:00:48 <rizzuh> looks like the defaults should be /usr/local/games for binary and /usr/local/share/games/openttd for data
20:00:54 <rizzuh> yet sudo make install doesn't move anything there
20:01:01 <rizzuh> as if install does nothing
20:01:23 <flitz> you did a simple make before ?
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20:02:34 <rizzuh> hmmm... running openttd works. but the binary isn't in /usr/local/games and I didn't give any params to configure at all
20:02:57 <flitz> hm, the only thing that I ever used in case of openttd was --prefix-dir, but that worked for me
20:03:13 <flitz> and I made a symlink into /usr/games/bin manually afterwards
20:03:15 <Rubidium> it definitely works for the debian package (see os/debian/rules)
20:03:17 <rizzuh> oh crap, standard problem: ssh`d into another machine
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20:47:49 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: frosch * r22383 /trunk/src/ (5 files in 3 dirs): -Codechange: Rename PALETTE_TO_STRUCT_GREY to PALETTE_NEWSPAPER as it does not belong to the other PALETTE_TO_STRUCT_xxx recolourings.
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21:27:01 <peter1138> 2011-04-29 22:26:44 (71.6 MB/s) - `opensfx-0.2.3-all.zip' saved [11359588/11359588]
21:56:21 <DorpsGek> __ln__: Sacro was last seen in #openttd 5 days, 5 hours, 31 minutes, and 56 seconds ago: <Sacro> no, perspective is borked
22:06:12 <DorpsGek> LordAro: Bjarni was last seen in #openttd 4 weeks, 4 days, 22 hours, 44 minutes, and 9 seconds ago: <Bjarni> thanks
22:06:20 <peter1138> one of the opensfx sounds appears to be corrupted
22:06:29 <peter1138> er, well, sounds to be, i suppose
22:10:07 <DorpsGek> __ln__: Wolf01 was last seen in #openttd 5 seconds ago: <Wolf01> 'night
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