IRC logs for #openttd on OFTC at 2011-03-28
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00:48:42 <DanMacK> Hey all
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01:21:03 <confound> hi
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01:33:45 <pikka> wut wut
01:34:07 <DanMacK> whassup
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02:02:33 <__ln__> @seen Bjarni
02:02:33 <DorpsGek> __ln__: Bjarni was last seen in #openttd 2 hours, 40 minutes, and 29 seconds ago: <Bjarni> thanks
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03:34:39 <Nite> Hi
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06:39:15 <Terkhen> good morning
06:41:56 <Ammler> Morning
06:42:22 <Ammler> I miss the stolen hour from yesterday
06:45:03 <Terkhen> me too, I'll probably compensate it with a second coffee in a few hours :/
06:45:10 <planetmaker> moin
06:45:17 <Terkhen> hi planetmaker
06:46:03 <planetmaker> hm, so you didn't steal that hour from me either, if you're missing an hour as well...
06:48:24 <planetmaker> <-- Russia does the right thing.
06:48:54 <Terkhen> look at it differently if you want: you did not lose an hour, you won more daylight time :)
06:49:28 <planetmaker> not really true... but actually yes
06:49:28 <Terkhen> but I'd gladly change it back for my lost sleeping hour myself
06:49:32 <Terkhen> :P
06:49:43 <planetmaker> haha :-)
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07:30:59 <Nite> little late but
07:31:31 <Nite> noone wins anything by manipulating the device "clock"
07:32:00 <Nite> ... and
07:33:30 <Nite> ... earlier we talked about how cool it would be to be able to build neutral raods, that do not belong to any player but to the authorities built in ...
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07:45:34 <Ammler> Nite: what happens to roads you build on a temporary created company, which then got removed again?
07:46:29 <Ammler> why does it matter, who belongs a road to?
07:47:36 <V453000> cause noobs use each others roads ...
07:47:59 <Nite> Ammler you know what happens to them, they get "neutral", and d would be nice to build them that way in first place
07:48:23 <V453000> so that anyone could vandalize them?
07:48:51 <Nite> it does mather because when you build cities/towns other players cannot remoove your roads
07:49:04 <Nite> and it woudl be nice if they could
07:49:30 <Nite> yes so that anyone could "vandalize"
07:50:07 <Nite> ... further we thought if this would also work with rail ...
07:50:14 <V453000> well, if you maintain cities _properly_, then 2 people is already too many in one town, so competition there is pointless, and secondly it would just bring too many disadvantades related to vandalism
07:50:43 <V453000> why? when you trust the other people so much, play with them in one company ... problem solved
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07:51:23 <Nite> thats not true even 4 or more ppl could have statoins in town - its almost true for RV's ...
07:52:28 <Nite> we meant having the choice if roads are townowned (townroads everyone can change) or player owned
07:52:59 <Nite> one company sharing everything is a bit much
07:53:09 <Nite> or was in our case
07:53:44 <Nite> the point is it would make building towns without hindering other players very possible
07:54:27 <Nite> afaiu one will fiddle with newgrfs
07:55:25 <Ammler> Nite: so just use a dummy company "Town Infra" ;-)
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07:56:31 <Nite> did that already, and that was the occasion where the idea came up ...
07:56:57 <Nite> nd thx
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08:48:50 <Nite>
08:48:55 <Nite> "..."
08:54:01 <Lachie> ...
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10:53:26 <DanMacK> Hey all
10:53:45 <Eddi|zuHause> who the hell would get to the idea that it was "HO" instead of "H0"?
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10:55:52 <DanMacK> Because in the US it's usually written HO
10:56:19 <DanMacK> Just like 0 is written as 'O'
10:56:39 <Eddi|zuHause> so it's a "translation error" ;)
10:56:45 <DanMacK> Nobody calls it 'zero' gauge :P
10:57:11 <Eddi|zuHause> well, it's called "H-Null" in german
10:57:44 <DanMacK> Yeah, we Westerners just call it HO :P
10:57:47 <Wolf01> hello
10:58:23 <DanMacK> So is O gauge called "null" then?
10:58:31 <Eddi|zuHause> never understood this english thing of calling "0" as "Oh" instead of "zero"
10:58:56 <Eddi|zuHause> DanMacK: yes. german is crazily logical sometimes ;)
10:59:07 <DanMacK> Hey, it makes sense
11:00:06 <peter1138> nought is more common than zero
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11:02:54 <Eddi|zuHause> they are crazy - these british...
11:04:07 <peter1138> Here, "0.1" is more likely to be spoken as "nought point one" rather than "zero point one"
11:04:42 <Eddi|zuHause> that's what you get when everything has 5 different names, i guess...
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11:15:40 <DanMacK> Hey Andy
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11:18:45 <Eddi|zuHause> when i search "H0" on google, i get 23 mio results, at least the first 100 of which are exclusively about model railroading.
11:19:30 <Eddi|zuHause> when i search for "HO" i get 600 mio results, none of which is about model railroading
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11:42:49 <XeryusTC> Eddi|zuHause read today's xkcd? :P
11:43:31 <Eddi|zuHause> XeryusTC: obviously.
11:44:07 <Eddi|zuHause> XeryusTC: after reading up on it, i decided it's an exclusively american problem.
11:45:28 <Eddi|zuHause> XeryusTC: the german wikipedia instead has a discussion whether it should be "Spur(weite) H0" or "Nenngröße H0" ;)
11:46:19 <XeryusTC> what does nenngröse mean?
11:46:29 <XeryusTC> also, my keyboard refuses to make that weird s thing
11:46:38 <Eddi|zuHause> (that roughly relates to: is the defining thing the scale (1:87) or the track width (16,5mm))
11:46:56 <Eddi|zuHause> XeryusTC: ß is compose+ss
11:47:33 <Eddi|zuHause> on my keyboard, altgr+s works
11:47:57 <XeryusTC> it used to be ctrl+alt+s or something like that for me
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11:48:10 <Eddi|zuHause>
11:48:17 <XeryusTC> but y-chat has different a different opinion about every single key combination
11:50:26 <Eddi|zuHause> but enough about xkcd. breaking news: has an sql-injection problem :p
11:50:49 <Eddi|zuHause>
11:52:29 <XeryusTC> :o
11:56:18 <SpComb> old hat
11:56:33 <SpComb> pasted a link about that over 12h ago!
11:56:48 <Eddi|zuHause> yes, i'm slow.
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12:56:32 <Eddi|zuHause> the pirate party seems to stabilize around 1.5%-2.0% across germany
12:57:29 <Eddi|zuHause> which is far away from the 5% that it needs to enter a parliament
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13:27:26 <Belugas> hello
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14:35:49 <DanMacK> Hey all
14:37:21 <supermop> helli
14:37:22 <supermop> o
14:39:35 <Sacro> @seen Bjarni]
14:39:35 <DorpsGek> Sacro: Error: Spurious "]". You may want to quote your arguments with double quotes in order to prevent extra brackets from being evaluated as nested commands.
14:39:38 <Sacro> @seen Bjarni
14:39:38 <DorpsGek> Sacro: Bjarni was last seen in #openttd 15 hours, 17 minutes, and 34 seconds ago: <Bjarni> thanks
14:40:52 <__ln__> nested commands?
14:41:01 <__ln__> @seen [seen Bjarni]
14:41:01 <DorpsGek> __ln__: Error: 'Bjarni was last seen in #openttd 15 hours, 18 minutes, and 58 seconds ago: <Bjarni> thanks' is not a valid nick.
14:41:12 <__ln__> got it
14:41:17 <Sacro> hmmm
14:41:21 <Sacro> i wonder
14:41:40 <Sacro> will @calc [seen Sacro] work?
14:41:43 <Sacro> 43+54
14:42:02 <__ln__> @calc [seen Sacro]
14:42:02 <DorpsGek> __ln__: Error: invalid syntax (<string>, line 1)
14:42:44 <__ln__> but yes the output of seen contains much more than the actual line
14:42:47 <Sacro> perhaps not
14:42:54 <Sacro> oh true
14:43:22 <Sacro> @seen [calc 3+4]
14:43:22 <DorpsGek> Sacro: I have not seen 7.
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15:10:01 <Eddi|zuHause> @base 10 16 [calc 2e6]
15:10:01 <DorpsGek> Eddi|zuHause: Error: unexpected EOF while parsing (<string>, line 1)
15:10:26 <Eddi|zuHause> @base 10 16 [calc 64]
15:10:26 <DorpsGek> Eddi|zuHause: 40
15:10:33 <Eddi|zuHause> @base 10 16 [calc 6*10+4]
15:10:33 <DorpsGek> Eddi|zuHause: 40
15:10:53 <Eddi|zuHause> that's interesting to know, actually ;)
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16:13:35 <Lord|Rayden> Hi! Jemand da?^^
16:14:29 <__ln__> nein, es ist kein aquarium
16:14:57 <Lord|Rayden> aha
16:15:25 <confound> another channel I'm on has a bot that says "wait a minute and see, you dolt" in response to "anyone there?"
16:17:04 <Lord|Rayden> Habe ne frage zu version 1.0.5 ... und zwar zum LAN spiel ... ich mache auf dem einen rechner ein spiel auf, und will mit dem anderen rechner darauf zugreifen. das klappt auch, aber nach ein paar sekunden fliegt der client raus mit der meldung "Verbindung zum Netzwerkspiel verloren" woran kann das liegen?
16:18:06 <Lord|Rayden> der host rechner hat win7 und der zweite win98se, beide sind ber einen router verbunden
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16:22:20 <__ln__> funktioniert die verbindung zwischen die rechnern mit einen anderen spiel oder programm?
16:22:38 <Terkhen> @get -1
16:22:38 <DorpsGek> Terkhen: English only
16:22:48 <Lord|Rayden> ja, FTP klappt zum beispiel .. und dosbox auch
16:22:53 <Lord|Rayden> sry
16:23:02 <Lord|Rayden> ftp works and dosbox, too
16:25:46 <Lord|Rayden> is there any option to start in debug mode to see the exact error message?
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16:29:54 <Lord|Rayden> same problem in internet mode .. i join the game, change my company name and after 20 seconds, i loose connection :(
16:31:00 <Rubidium> might be a router that thinks it's smart and rewrites what it thinks are ip addresses, causing invalid packets to arrive at OpenTTD
16:31:59 <Rubidium> alternatively the connection is not stable enough for OpenTTD; FTP doesn't care when it takes 20 seconds to recover a connection, but OpenTTD kills the connection after ~10 seconds
16:34:30 <__ln__> Lord|Rayden: when did you last reboot the router?
16:35:25 <Lord|Rayden> hmm some weeks ago
16:36:57 <__ln__> reboot it now and see if that helps.
16:37:10 <Lord|Rayden> ok, i'll try it
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16:42:19 <Lord|Rayden`> it didn't help
16:45:07 <Lord|Rayden`> i wonder why everything else works .. for example dosbox .. i play transport tycoon over dosbox an it works fine ... it's a slightly slow in multiplayer mode ... maybe the ethernet adapter on my win98 machine slows it down? because its an onboard intel 10/100
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16:46:14 <planetmaker> The connection speed usually is not an issue. Possibly rather the connection quality
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16:50:43 <Lord|Rayden`> hmm .. i also have the problem, that i have very slow download from the internet on the w98 machine .. i have a 32 mbit line, on the win7 machine everything is fine, but on win98 i have ~80-100 kb/s .. maybe i should check the network settings
16:51:08 <Lord|Rayden`> but i don't have a plan at all about this stuff^
16:55:38 <glx> maybe an unoptimal MTU
16:56:30 <Lord|Rayden`> the mtu wasn't even set
16:56:44 <__ln__> it must still have some value
16:57:11 <glx> IIRC the default value in win9x was ok for 56k$
16:57:14 <glx> -$
16:58:35 <Lord|Rayden`> i downloaded a tool, "SG TCP/IP" optimizer" and it said the value for MTU was "N/A" .. now it is 1500
16:59:19 <Lord|Rayden`> it should be, at least ...
17:00:02 <glx> it was probably 576 then
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17:07:50 <Lord|Rayden`> hm... Client#16 is slow, try increasing *net_frame_frew to a higher value! | Client#16 is dropped because the client didn't respond for 4 Game-days
17:08:04 <Lord|Rayden`> that's what the console says
17:08:24 <Lord|Rayden`> *net_frame_freq
17:11:08 <Lord|Rayden`> how do i do this?
17:12:00 <Terkhen> set net_frame_freq value IIRC
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17:15:23 <glx> what's the map size ?
17:15:37 <Lord|Rayden`> 512*512
17:15:43 <glx> and the CPU ?
17:15:59 <Lord|Rayden`> it's an amd duron @1,2 ghz
17:16:32 <glx> that may explain the "client is slow" message
17:17:56 <Lord|Rayden`> where do i type the net_frame_freq stuff? the console says it was an unknown setting
17:18:58 <glx> it's a server setting
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17:25:39 <Lord|Rayden`> hm .. the multiplay.txt says: - net_frame_freq:
17:25:40 <Lord|Rayden`> change it in console with: net_frame_freq = <number>
17:25:40 <Lord|Rayden`> the number should be between the 0 and 10, not much higher. It indicates the delay between clicking and showing up. The higher, the more you notice it, but the less bandwidth you use.
17:25:40 <Lord|Rayden`> A good value for Internet-games is 2 or 3.
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17:25:52 <Lord|Rayden`> but it does not work :(
17:27:55 <glx> must be done in server console (or with rcon)
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17:28:25 <Lord|Rayden`> i am typing in server console
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17:30:12 <planetmaker> within openttd?
17:30:35 <Lord|Rayden`> when i type: net_frame_freq the console says: "Current value for 'frame_freq' is:'0' (min:0, max:100)
17:30:37 <Lord|Rayden`> yes
17:32:00 <glx> that's ok, you need to change it with set
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17:32:23 <jstein778> hi there ! can I post a query ? how can I install zoom .tars into my data folder to be picked up in the game - I tied seaching all day but it is missing me !!!
17:32:49 <glx> you need to patch openttd for that IIRC
17:34:02 <planetmaker> jstein778: default openttd does not know about extra zoom
17:34:12 <jstein778> .. a patch ..many thanks for your kind assisance !!!! I assume the patch is plainly visible on the main zoom etc page ?
17:34:53 <planetmaker> probably
17:37:05 <jstein778> I downloaded the latest open ttd file few days ago it ran fine but wanted to try the zoom in graphics so I will try to find a/the patch .. many thanks then !!
17:37:35 <Lord|Rayden`> i can't change this setting .. no matter if i type set *net_frame_freq with or without the leading asterisk or if i type *frame_freq .. it always says, this was an unknown setting :(((
17:38:51 <Lord|Rayden`> ah
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17:42:22 <Lord|Rayden`> mh, although i set this value to 100, the client is still too slow :(
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17:43:12 <glx> then the map (and vehicle amount) is really too big for the client
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17:48:15 <Lord|Rayden`> wow, on a 64 it works^^
17:48:28 <Lord|Rayden`> but this size is too ... tiny
17:49:44 <glx> 256*256 should be ok
17:51:28 <Lord|Rayden`> 10% cpu useage and 450MB/1024MB ram useage
17:56:59 <Lord|Rayden`> 256*256 seems to be to heavy
17:57:31 <Lord|Rayden`> ok now i know why the client looses connection ..
17:57:39 <Lord|Rayden`> thanks for the help, byebye^
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18:02:26 * Zuu wish there was an option to sort vehicles by state in the vehicle lists. (so that one can quicker find vehicles in depots through GUI)
18:03:53 <Zuu> Even more awsome it would be if the vehicle name was displayed in the vehicle lists so that I can much quicker see the state of my Clueless vehicles :-)
18:04:57 <Zuu> Sorting by order count would also be useful.
18:05:43 <Zuu> Hmm, I'm blind.
18:05:54 <Zuu> The names are actually in the vehicle list. :-p
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18:28:44 <andythenorth> evenings
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18:31:22 <supermop> hello
18:32:02 <planetmaker> heya andythenorth
18:35:14 <Zuu> Hmm, so vehicles without a custom name sort as "Road Vehicle #", but have no name displayed in the vehicle list. Sounds like weird logic to me.
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18:45:15 <Terkhen> hi andythenorth
18:45:33 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: translators * r22277 /trunk/src/lang/ (norwegian_nynorsk.txt unfinished/faroese.txt):
18:45:33 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: -Update from WebTranslator v3.0:
18:45:34 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: faroese - 26 changes by BuBu
18:45:34 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: norwegian_nynorsk - 57 changes by 2rB
18:59:03 <guru3> found a folder called 'ottd-wiki-ics'
18:59:07 <guru3> ahh, for the things done long ago
19:01:42 <guru3> a few of them are even still in use :3
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19:19:57 <__ln__>
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20:29:18 <LordAro> evening all
20:30:03 <LordAro> bjarni never came back then? :L
20:30:40 <__ln__> for you 'never' is less than 24 hours?
20:31:07 <LordAro> yeah :)
20:31:19 <LordAro> @seen bjarni
20:31:19 <DorpsGek> LordAro: bjarni was last seen in #openttd 21 hours, 9 minutes, and 15 seconds ago: <Bjarni> thanks
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20:32:54 <__ln__> 21 hours is exactly an eighth of a sennight
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20:37:52 <LordAro> sennight?
20:39:06 <__ln__> seven days; some call it 'week'
20:48:16 <SmatZ> 'week'? never heard of that word
20:50:30 <Eddi|zuHause> __ln__: so it's a sixteenth of a fortnight?
20:50:43 <Eddi|zuHause> must be a conspiracy of some sort.
20:50:57 <Belugas> not week, geek. or weak?
20:51:05 <Belugas> or squeek!
20:51:13 <Wolf01> you need sleep
20:51:25 <Belugas> tongue in cheek
20:51:56 <Belugas> sheesh kebab!
20:52:11 <Belugas> Kish goonight
20:52:44 <Eddi|zuHause> seven days without water make one we(a|e)k?
20:56:27 <SmatZ> :)
21:01:38 <Belugas> night all :)
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21:15:53 <Terkhen> good night
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21:17:44 <Ruudjah> hi!
21:18:07 <Ruudjah> is there a table/list of conversion ratio between primary/secondary/tertiary cargo?
21:18:40 <Ruudjah> e.g. say I deliver 100 tons of grain (temp) to factory, how much goods do I get?
21:18:54 <Wolf01> mistery
21:19:33 <glx> usually it's 1 for 1, but you never get all the output
21:20:12 <glx> and when you deliver you get money, nothing else :)
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21:30:21 <Eddi|zuHause> Ruudjah: like glx said, it's 1:1, but it gets reduced by your transportation rating, so usually more like 3:2
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21:31:27 <glx> anyway that's for standard industries, with newgrf it can be different
21:31:33 <Eddi|zuHause> Ruudjah: unless you use NewIndustries like FIRS, but that will tell you the ratio
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21:46:05 <LordAro> night all
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22:08:28 <__ln__> 23:50 < Eddi|zuHause> __ln__: so it's a sixteenth of a fortnight? <-- correct
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22:22:20 <Ruudjah> so when I have 100% rating, I get 1:1 for every conversion between a lower to higher grade cargo
22:22:26 <Ruudjah> (sorry for late response)
22:23:05 <Ruudjah> usually it's 1 for 1 --> when is it not 'usual'?
22:25:01 <glx> with newgrf industries it can be whatever the author decides
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22:51:07 <Eddi|zuHause>
22:57:07 <SmatZ> Eddi|zuHause: that is way too scary!
22:58:32 <SmatZ> .ru - only in Soviet Russia, maybe?
22:58:41 <SmatZ> (that should be .su though)
22:59:59 <SmatZ> */humor/* doesn't really match that pic
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23:01:12 <glx> and that's dangerous
23:01:23 <Eddi|zuHause> dunno, they're not my pictures
23:01:47 <Eddi|zuHause> but we had similar things in my childhood...
23:02:04 <Eddi|zuHause> "in soviet germany" :p
23:02:07 <SmatZ> :D
23:03:13 <glx>
23:03:22 <glx> should be these ones
23:03:56 <__ln__> i've seen something similar irl here... not on that scale, but trees covered with white stuff and those caterpillars
23:04:12 <SmatZ> looks quite dangerous, indeed
23:04:39 <Eddi|zuHause> glx: that reads evil.
23:05:21 <__ln__> oh, they are poisonous. gotta remember that next time.
23:05:30 <Eddi|zuHause> glx: but those are not oak trees in the pictures
23:06:13 <glx> trees are hard to determine with all these caterpillars
23:09:26 <SmatZ> why they haven't taken over the world yet? they seem to reproduce very quickly
23:10:00 <Eddi|zuHause> SmatZ: it's balanced by environmental conditions and predators
23:10:35 <Wolf01> 'night
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23:11:18 <SmatZ> right, I am surprised there are animals that eat poisonous (for people) moths
23:12:01 <Eddi|zuHause> that depends especially on how well the liver can extract the poison
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23:12:46 <SmatZ> interesting
23:13:33 <Eddi|zuHause> it also works in the other direction: e.g. cats have very poor livers, even chocolate is poisonous for them
23:14:19 <SmatZ> :(
23:14:53 <Eddi|zuHause> this, however, is balanced by cats not tasting sweet, so they won't eat the chocolate anyway :p
23:17:22 <Eddi|zuHause> it's very difficult stuff actually, e.g. deer has higher tolerance for poison than humans, so when a deer eats berries or mushrooms, you can't deduce that you can eat them, too.
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23:23:41 <__ln__> how scary is this:
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23:26:42 <glx> hehe
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23:41:47 <Eddi|zuHause> looks evil :o
23:42:11 <Eddi|zuHause> these guys must develop a conspiracy!
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23:42:29 <__ln__> yes, they wouldn't be sitting in dark candle light otherwise
23:43:23 <Eddi|zuHause> who is on the left?
23:44:02 <__ln__> that's what i've been trying to figure out
23:45:11 <Eddi|zuHause> the second one from the left should be me
23:45:33 <Eddi|zuHause> and the two on the right are Rubidium and TrueBrain, i believe
23:46:14 <__ln__> yes, and the one almost behind the bottle is probably Zuu
23:47:13 <Eddi|zuHause> could be planetmaker on the left
23:47:22 <SmatZ> and __ln__ too the photo
23:47:24 <SmatZ> took
23:48:11 <__ln__> yeah
23:48:27 <SmatZ> :)
23:49:04 <SmatZ> I am looking forward for next OpenTTD meet ... this time I won't forget the map home :)
23:49:46 <__ln__> @seen CIA-1
23:49:46 <DorpsGek> __ln__: CIA-1 was last seen in #openttd 5 hours, 4 minutes, and 12 seconds ago: <CIA-1> OpenTTD: norwegian_nynorsk - 57 changes by 2rB
23:50:14 <__ln__> umm, that doesn't tell us the revision
23:50:37 <SmatZ> there hasn't been any non-translators commit in last ~4 days
23:51:10 <__ln__> ok, it's 22277, so still a while to r30k
23:51:24 <SmatZ> must... commit... more...
23:51:58 <SmatZ> FS#4564 can be split oseveral patches... though not all changes done there are meaningful
23:52:08 <SmatZ> and I would bet I have a diff that does the same somewhere :)
23:52:46 <SmatZ> still, it's nice to see there are people who care about (the smallest bits of) performance
23:52:48 <Eddi|zuHause> @commit
23:52:48 <DorpsGek> Eddi|zuHause: Commit by translators :: r22277 /trunk/src/lang (norwegian_nynorsk.txt unfinished/faroese.txt) (2011-03-28 18:45:08 UTC)
23:52:49 <DorpsGek> Eddi|zuHause: -Update from WebTranslator v3.0:
23:52:50 <DorpsGek> Eddi|zuHause: faroese - 26 changes by BuBu
23:52:51 <DorpsGek> Eddi|zuHause: norwegian_nynorsk - 57 changes by 2rB
23:53:58 <Eddi|zuHause> every dev is working hard on getting 1.1.0 out :p
23:54:40 <Eddi|zuHause> must get Bjarni to commit more. that'll stir up the place :p
23:54:57 <SmatZ> it would be nice to get reply to some of the "Waiting for the reporter" bugs
23:58:59 <__ln__> r30k party in Libya?
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