IRC logs for #openttd on OFTC at 2011-02-25
00:03:53 <rane> dammit, my only oil well closed
00:03:55 <rane> :-(
00:04:17 <SmatZ> rane: playing temperate climate?
00:05:17 <rane> yes
00:05:21 <rane> 64x64
00:05:31 <rane> which means my rafinery is down soon too
00:05:32 <rane> :\
00:08:29 <rane> can i like fund a business?
00:08:57 <SmatZ> yes
00:09:15 <SmatZ> it's somewhere in the advanced settings
00:09:34 <SmatZ> "primary industry construction ... no/prospecting/yes"
00:09:45 <SmatZ> probably in economy/industry
00:12:48 <rane> ouch 2.5 mil
00:13:57 <SmatZ> :)
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01:48:32 <rane> how can i deliver 100% production from factory?
01:51:05 <supermop> not sure that you can
01:53:25 <rane> even if my train waits for cargo at all time, i can't get past 80%
01:53:38 <rane> hence my question how to maximize it
01:53:49 <supermop> i think you need 2 different stations
01:54:23 <Yexo> see to figure out how to get your station rating to 100%
01:55:00 <supermop> not sure, but i think it avoids giving 100% to one station because then a competitor would never be able to get started at an industry no matter how well they serviced their station
01:55:15 <Yexo> that's untrue
01:55:59 <supermop> ok
01:56:20 <supermop> maybe that is what locomotion does
01:56:41 <supermop> not sure why it came to mind, but it seemed like a plausible reason
01:56:45 <rane> ooooh
01:56:50 <rane> so it's not just pure "delivered" :-)
01:57:23 <Yexo> without the "new vehicle bonus" and without any advertising you can get to 94%
01:58:55 <Yexo> rane: did you already built a statue in the town the station is in? that's the easiest way to raise the rating by 10%
02:01:22 <rane> nope
02:01:28 <rane> it's good to play a small map after all
02:01:41 <rane> on a small maps it's harder to miss big things:-)
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02:22:09 * DanMacK still prefers large maps
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03:03:52 <rane> hard to make profit on a small map
03:04:25 <rane> should have went 64x128 instead
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07:35:50 <Terkhen> good morning
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07:56:33 <JamesG> Good morning
08:00:20 <SmatZ> morning JamesG
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08:15:53 <JamesG> This is my patch to revert savegames by "guessing" the filename to load from
08:16:53 <JamesG> I'm going to rewrite it to store the filenames in a deque
08:17:08 <JamesG> Double-ended queue in C++
08:19:45 <Eddi|zuHause> why does it have to be a double queue?
08:20:45 <JamesG> I had a reason for that when I first designed it, but have now forgotten
08:21:16 <JamesG> In fact, a normal queue should be ok
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08:21:44 <Eddi|zuHause> + if (argc != 2) { IConsoleHelp("Usage: revert <no. savegames>"); return true; } <-- maybe you should instead list the possible savegames
08:21:48 <Yexo> probably you want to remove a savegame from the start of the queue when openttd overwrites it, you need a deque for that
08:22:04 <Yexo> + if (_settings_client.gui.keep_all_autosave) { IConsoleHelp("This command is for rotating-autosave games"); return true; } <- why doesn't it work when keeping all autosaves?
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08:22:50 <Yexo> also, why not have "revert" default to "revert 1"?
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08:25:06 <Eddi|zuHause> instead of some weird list thingie, you can instead use a large buffer for the last N filenames in a round-robin manner
08:25:21 <Eddi|zuHause> assuming n is fixed
08:25:43 <Eddi|zuHause> you can always use the normal load command, if you want to go back more than 10 savegames
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08:31:41 <dihedral> good morning
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08:38:27 <__ln__> ave lupus01
08:38:33 <Wolf01> hello
08:38:44 <Wolf01> sound weird
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09:01:52 <Wolfsherz> Hi, openttd.exe seems to contain a virus (TR/Dropper.Gen). Version 1.1.0-RC1. Reported by Avira AntiVir Professional.
09:04:44 <Terkhen> Wolfsherz: from where did you download your openttd?
09:05:07 <Wolfsherz> i always and only download them from
09:07:13 <Wolfsherz> it is reproducable also. i deleted the file, redownloaded it from and AntiVir detects the virus on unpacking the archive.
09:08:18 <Terkhen> unless we (or one of the mirrors) were somehow hacked that detection does not make much sense
09:09:09 <Terkhen> given the description I found of TR/Dropper.Gen, it might be detecting that OpenTTD downloads compressed files and then unzips and runs them somehow
09:09:32 <Terkhen> but this is not something I know much about :)
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09:10:16 <Wolfsherz> notice that i did not run the file, it was detected on unpacking the downloaded archive
09:10:29 <Yexo> Wolfsherz: do you know from which mirror you downloaded openttd? also the 32bit or 64 bit version?
09:11:02 <Wolfsherz>
09:11:41 <Yexo> if you go to , on which url do you end up?
09:14:05 <Wolfsherz>
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09:31:38 <Terkhen> avast does not complain about that file
09:32:27 <Wolfsherz> well, that is great... but avira does ;)
09:33:13 <Wolf01> even avg doesn't complain
09:35:18 <Wolf01> "it might be detecting that OpenTTD downloads compressed files", yes, OTTD does it for online content, Avira is too zealous
09:36:52 <Wolfsherz> i suppose developers will contact avira and tell them it is a false positive then?
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09:39:34 <Wolf01> you can do it as well
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10:08:11 <zydeco> greetings
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10:50:53 <Chaot_s> hmm microsift has started bashing opencandy as if it's adware
10:51:41 <Chaot_s> does openttd use that too? that might explain the avira "false" positive then
10:52:15 <peter1138> What is opencandy?
10:54:02 <dihedral> what is microsift
10:55:24 <Chaot_s> *microsoft :)
10:55:49 <Chaot_s> and opencandy is a litle ad developers might include in their installer
10:56:17 <Chaot_s> that way they can recommend software to their product folowers.
10:56:43 <Chaot_s> windows defender now detects al those installers and marks them as potential risk.
10:57:06 <Chaot_s>
10:57:24 <Chaot_s> for some more info
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10:57:51 <Chaot_s> though mirc, winscp, and lots of others do ad it.
10:58:35 <Chaot_s> since today windows defender started complaining about is.
10:58:38 <Chaot_s> it.
10:58:44 <SmatZ> what is windows defender?
10:59:26 <Chaot_s> lol :D SmatZ : you are a *nix only user?
10:59:36 <SmatZ> no, sometimes I use Windows
10:59:48 <SmatZ> but I don't remember using windows defender
10:59:51 <SmatZ> nor installing it
11:00:02 <SmatZ> unless it's some automatically installed program
11:00:18 <Chaot_s> windows defender is microsofts own "anti malware" its inplemented in the security center of win7 iirc
11:00:29 <SmatZ> ok, I even have win7 :)
11:00:30 <Chaot_s> vista had some parts of it too
11:01:00 <Chaot_s> in start menu type defender and it shows up
11:01:13 <Chaot_s> and i didn't instal it manualy.
11:01:16 <SmatZ> ok, thank you for explanation :)
11:01:30 <Chaot_s> maybe its optional in w7 ultimate :D
11:01:31 <SmatZ> I would have to reboot the computer, I can't do it now
11:01:50 <Chaot_s> no problem :D
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11:19:36 <tokai> Every installer is a potential risk. :)
11:19:45 <tokai> With ads or without ads. :)
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11:49:56 <Ammler> Chaot_s: as a user of avira, it would be nice, if you care that openttd does install and run without false errors...
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12:03:40 <DanMacK> Hey all
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12:08:04 <Eddi|zuHause> i really shouldn't read the 2ccset topic... 80% of it seems to be about "train X from Y country is the same as train Z from W country"
12:09:05 <DanMacK> lol
12:09:33 <Ammler> they should plan an end :-)
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12:14:57 <__ln__> 10:38 < __ln__> ave lupus01 <-- sorry, the romans didn't use zero
12:18:58 <Eddi|zuHause> they didn't use 1 either
12:19:45 * DanMacK thinks the 2CC st will stop once they've used up all of the available ID's :P
12:19:57 <Eddi|zuHause> that's like 64k
12:20:40 <peter1138> you could have a micromanagement set
12:20:59 <peter1138> instead of randomised vehicles, every permutation could use a different ID
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12:28:13 <planetmaker> Chaot_s, I think it's fair to classify those add-installers as potential risk - as simply they are potential risks
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12:33:41 <Eddi|zuHause> you can classify every program downloaded from the internet as potential risk. the result is people will just blindly click on "ok" without even reading the text
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13:35:07 <planetmaker> hm, the + and - hotkeys for zoom issue is still present, eh?
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13:44:14 <Eddi|zuHause> what's the issue?
13:54:44 <Yexo> planetmaker: not still present, again present
13:55:09 <Yexo> @commit 22094
13:55:09 <DorpsGek> Yexo: Commit by yexo :: r22094 trunk/src/hotkeys.cpp (2011-02-17 23:14:43 UTC)
13:55:10 <DorpsGek> Yexo: -Fix [FS#4510]: remove invalid keycodes when reading hotkeys.cfg
13:55:21 <Yexo> it ignores also some valid keycodes :(
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13:59:36 <CIA-11> OpenTTD: yexo * r22142 /trunk/src/hotkeys.cpp: -Fix (r22094): some valid keycodes were ignored along with the invalid ones
14:00:44 * Yexo is happy that bug didn't make any beta or rc
14:01:39 <Yexo> after updating delete hotkeys.cfg to reset the zoom in/out keys
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14:04:01 <Terkhen> :)
14:05:54 <Belugas> hello
14:06:00 <Yexo> hello Belugas
14:10:25 <Belugas> mister Yexo!
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14:16:23 <planetmaker> :-)
14:26:09 <Belugas> ho.. and mister planetmaker!
14:31:47 <Mazur> Question: Would it be hard for the Land Information view to report the type of railway track, as well as the signals the tile contains?
14:33:04 * Mazur missed loading catenary in his last game and couldn't tell the difference between electric and normal.
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14:36:11 <Ammler> Mazur: imagine a newgrf like nutracks with 16 different types
14:36:51 <planetmaker> That probably would be feasible
14:39:20 <Mazur> Ammler, that is what I'm thinking about, I'm asking about what would need to be done to achieve it.
14:40:06 <Mazur> If it's only adding appropriate lines to english.txt and a minor change in the gui cpp, I might be able to do it.
14:41:43 <Ammler> Mazur: I would think, it is impossible with 8bpp
14:42:43 <Terkhen> Mazur: if you mean showing a string, a list of railway track types are already queried and shown when you click on the rail menu so I would start by looking there
14:42:44 <Mazur> I do not understand, the game itself knows, adn hte land view retrieved the tile information.
14:43:36 <Ammler> ah, I misunderstood, thought you were speaking about Minimap :-)
14:43:41 <Mazur> Terkhen: I've build a long track , my first train is ruinning towards its station, and it stops.
14:43:56 <Terkhen> yes, I meant for the code :)
14:44:01 <Mazur> Quickest way to find out would be query hte tile in front of it.
14:45:03 <Terkhen> I don't know the code but the railway menu is somehow getting those strings for all types, then it's just a matter of getting the type of the railway track in the tile and using the same function to show the correct string in the land information window
14:45:13 <Mazur> Yet the land information view only states: "Railway tack", which is what I figured myself, my problem is, what kind of railway track?
14:46:06 <Mazur> Terkhen, exactly, not high-powered 2 caf-pow/hour major rewrites of large sections of code.
14:47:33 <Mazur> Just 19*(# of signal combinations) extra lines in english.txt.
14:48:02 <Mazur> And the report function chosing the right one.
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14:49:03 <Mazur> (Not 19, but nutracks types + 3).
14:50:44 <Terkhen> Mazur: check GetRailTypeDropDownList in rail_gui.cpp to see how the game gets the rail type name to display it; you would need to get the correct RailType to display from the tile
14:50:48 <Terkhen> it does not seem much complicated
14:50:52 <Terkhen> signals are another story :)
14:51:10 <Mazur> Signals are already reported.
14:51:35 <Terkhen> I see :)
14:51:51 <Mazur> That's why I included them.
14:51:52 <Mazur> :-)
14:53:51 <Mazur> There are 23 lines for reporting ralway track.
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14:59:28 <Terkhen> <--- these lines are the interesting ones
15:00:13 <Terkhen> they show how to decide which string to use and which parameters you should pass to it
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15:08:40 <vb> hey
15:08:52 <vb> what's the industry set where you deliver cars?
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15:11:45 <Mazur> Hm, not as interesting as I thought, I just now noticed, that the LAI view already reports Maximum track speed, which amounts to the same kind of thing.
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15:21:05 <Ammler> vb: ECS
15:21:16 <Ammler> hmm, FIRS might also have something like that
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15:22:28 <Phantom>
15:22:33 <DanMacK> vb - It's ECS
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15:34:54 <vb> help
15:35:03 <vb> what is the industry set where you deliver cars?
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15:36:38 <Belugas> i think it's in ECS
15:37:15 <vb> yes, i have ecs
15:37:22 <vb> but as i remember, it was another one
15:37:26 <vb> a little nicer afaik
15:37:42 <Belugas> can't tell. I only about cars in ECS
15:38:16 <Belugas> ho.. Ammler may have given you yet another answer: FIRS
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15:38:50 <Ammler> well, It might not matter at all, it depends how the vehicle set does interpret the cargo labels
15:39:10 <Ammler> I know, dbsetxl has car transporter
15:40:05 <Ammler> it does interpret goods as cars
15:41:10 <Belugas> i think vb only cares about the look, not the inner stuff, Ammler :)
15:41:57 <Alberth> dotirc: I don't share files
15:42:09 <Ammler> Belugas: then ecs and dbsetxl
15:42:47 <Belugas> hi Alberth. looks like you have been spammed by dotirc too...
15:42:58 <Ammler> and the cargoset, if that works with openttd
15:43:12 <Belugas> is it a case of a quick?
15:43:29 <Alberth> ?
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15:43:31 <Belugas> thanks Ammler
15:43:33 <Belugas> lol
15:43:36 <Ammler> :-)
15:43:37 <Belugas> he was afraid!
15:46:00 * Alberth should study the irc commands
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16:28:09 <supermop> good morning
16:28:16 <supermop> although it is almost noon for me
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16:29:19 <ZirconiumX> good almost-evening-but-not-quite-because-it's-4:26pm
16:29:55 <supermop> yeah, I don't start evening any earlier than 5, even when it is dark by 4
16:32:15 <Belugas> yeah :(
16:32:19 <Belugas> sadly
16:32:33 <Belugas> at least, it's clear now, when going to work
16:32:44 <Belugas> and snow keeps on falling
16:33:07 <Belugas> 28 minutes before allowed to swallow lunch
16:33:59 * Alberth ponders diner
16:34:05 * ZirconiumX wonders how Belugas manages to hold the food in his mouth for 27 minutes without swallowing it
16:34:15 <ZirconiumX> pizza for me
16:34:45 <Belugas> gnia gnia gnia
16:34:50 <Belugas> smart ass ;)
16:35:04 * Rubidium ponders bed
16:35:33 * ZirconiumX ponders going to biggleswade
16:35:42 <ZirconiumX> ...via london
16:36:05 <ZirconiumX> and via peterborough (ugh!) back
16:42:37 * planetmaker wonders... where are you, Rubidium, that you think of bed, now?
16:45:35 <ZirconiumX> GMT +5 hours?
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16:51:25 <rane> how can i have two trains waiting somewhere and still 70% "transported"
16:53:53 <Terkhen> rane:
16:54:33 <ZirconiumX> because the game is insane
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16:57:30 <Ammler> rane: cargo can become "bad"
16:57:54 <planetmaker> stale like beer :-P
16:59:14 <ZirconiumX> ed:?
16:59:22 <Ammler> rane: one new train with max speed per produce cicle
17:00:04 <Ammler> hmm, is that 4 days?
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17:01:55 <Ammler> and don't forget the statue :-P
17:09:37 <rane> yea, i've got those
17:09:48 <rane> it's a small map, 64x128 so i have 1 of everything only
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17:10:56 <planetmaker> you probably still have two towns ;-)
17:11:38 <planetmaker> </smart ass>
17:14:17 <rane> yea
17:14:22 <rane> either won't let me build anything
17:15:01 <supermop> trees
17:15:24 <ZirconiumX> cheat console
17:15:46 <ZirconiumX> only use the latter as a last resort
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17:53:18 <ZirconiumX> meh - the chris sawyer that isn't
17:53:48 <supermop> i think he has checked out for the most part
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18:04:05 <Belugas> there are a few people here who could tell you that the real Chris Sawyer would not be as friendly...
18:09:49 <ZirconiumX> OpenTTH
18:10:18 <ZirconiumX> Open Transport Tycoon Hacked would be chris' responce
18:10:40 <Belugas> betrayal Of His Vision, actually
18:11:39 * DanMacK thinks he was banned
18:11:55 <DanMacK> I know Owen has talked to Chris a couple of times
18:12:17 <ZirconiumX> Well if it was *the* chris he *really* won't be happy
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18:14:33 * Belugas nods
18:14:45 <Belugas> contrary to all the romantics around
18:15:04 <Belugas> "he should be, his program is still improving and still popular"
18:17:45 <ZirconiumX> what would the sequel of the sequel of the game that literally no-one has heard of be called
18:18:52 <Belugas> <new_game_vaguely_based_on><The_initial_game>
18:19:24 <ZirconiumX> OpenNGVBSTIG
18:19:45 <Alberth> OpenTTD::TNG :)
18:19:57 <ZirconiumX> OpenNGVBSTIGWERUOF
18:20:21 <ZirconiumX> (with extra unheard of features)
18:20:36 <Belugas> OpenWTFAYPWLLT?
18:21:37 <ZirconiumX> Open Why the F*** Are You Paying With ?? ??
18:21:59 <Belugas> PLaying With Letters Like That
18:22:12 <Belugas> ;)
18:22:36 <ZirconiumX> OpenIHANIWIDTECOMMABIDRC
18:25:17 <Belugas> i give up on too many silly possibilities !
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18:45:41 <CIA-11> OpenTTD: translators * r22143 /trunk/src/lang/ (irish.txt unfinished/frisian.txt):
18:45:41 <CIA-11> OpenTTD: -Update from WebTranslator v3.0:
18:45:41 <CIA-11> OpenTTD: frisian - 59 changes by Taeke
18:45:41 <CIA-11> OpenTTD: irish - 58 changes by tem
18:45:41 <CIA-11> OpenTTD: slovenian - 30 changes by
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19:04:28 <Rubidium> planetmaker: because I was awake early enough to say "night" to glx
19:04:34 <rane> is it posssible to generate some extra area and add it to the map i am already playing?
19:04:50 <Terkhen> rane: no
19:04:51 <ZirconiumX> no
19:05:14 <rane> why not, if i may ask
19:05:42 <Rubidium> because it's not implemented I'd reckon
19:05:50 <ZirconiumX> because it's part of the game engine
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19:06:10 <ZirconiumX> you can't add NewGRF's, they'll crash the game
19:06:31 <ZirconiumX> If you did add land, it would crash the game
19:06:58 <Alberth> you can 'lift' water, which becomes land
19:07:06 <rane> i don't believe i'm the first person to ask for it
19:07:26 <Terkhen> probably not
19:07:55 <Rubidium> neither would you be the first to suggest corners in bridges/tunnels
19:08:03 * Alberth has never seen the question since he started playing OpenTTD 3 years ago
19:08:03 <Rubidium> though that's not implemented as well
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19:08:35 <rane> i didn't think about bridges tbh:-)
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19:09:03 <rane> i'd like "delivered" to be renaamed to "quality of service" though
19:09:08 <rane> or something clear like that
19:09:19 <rane> then actual delivered could be displayed alongside it
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19:09:50 <ZirconiumX> hmmm
19:10:20 <ZirconiumX> Quality of service: 70% of 5,400 cargo delivered
19:10:28 <ZirconiumX> Doesn't fit
19:12:40 <rane> but delivered % has nothing to do with service quality
19:12:48 <rane> since quality has a ton of other modifiers
19:13:01 <rane> so: delivered: X out of Y produced, quality: Z%
19:14:14 <Alberth> what makes you think delivered is quality?
19:15:07 <rane> when i click "ratings" in the station it's exactly equal to "transported" percentage
19:15:08 <ZirconiumX> @rane, such a thing would be tremendously difficult to implement IMHO
19:15:16 <planetmaker> consume-oriented thinking, of course, Alberth ;-)
19:16:30 <rane> well, it confused me that you can deliver every single piece of product they make and still have "transported" way below 100% until someone sent me to the wiki page and showed me all the other modifiers
19:17:47 <ZirconiumX> @Alberth, a company which delivers more cargo allows the industy to make more money, thus in the industy's point of view the company gives a higher quality of service
19:18:59 <Alberth> rane they only show your portion
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19:19:51 <Alberth> ZirconiumX: In my view, they always get enough, just not always through your company
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19:20:42 <Alberth> ie there are other suppliers/transporters for the industry, although you don't see them
19:26:15 <planetmaker> except if you play MP or with AIs ;-)
19:26:19 <planetmaker> then you might
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20:01:37 <rane> ja
20:01:42 <rane> i reached 100%! =)
20:01:48 <rane> it's possible with one station after all
20:04:17 <fonsinchen> Rubidium: I've fixed all the issues pointed out in now. Well, except for those in smallmap-stats and smallmap-zoom-in that don't apply anymore. I've completely replaced those branches with smallmap-refactor, linkgraph-overlay, overlay-legend, smallmap-overlay and viewport-overlay. smallmap-stats and smallmap-zoom-in are still in the repository and being updated so that people have an easier time
20:04:19 <fonsinchen> rebasing onto the new branches.
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20:13:08 <supermop> hello again
20:13:45 <planetmaker> salute, supermop
20:14:12 <supermop> i've been too busy with work this week to get much nml done
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20:14:32 <planetmaker> no excuses :-P ;-)
20:14:49 <planetmaker> real life is never a good excuse ;-)
20:15:03 <supermop> ha
20:15:28 <supermop> occasionally work is actually slow during the middle of the day, if only i could work on nml here
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20:15:39 <planetmaker> :-)
20:15:50 <planetmaker> a simple text editor might suffice ;-)
20:16:08 <supermop> yeah, no testing though
20:16:25 <supermop> so you were saying something about dev zone stuff the other day
20:17:05 <planetmaker> right :-)
20:17:40 <planetmaker> I mean this:
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20:19:57 <planetmaker> we offer there to host newgrfs and provide also a nightly build service similar to what openttd nightlies are for openttd
20:21:12 <supermop> oh neat
20:21:34 <supermop> would that make any sense for my grf though?
20:21:39 <planetmaker> sure
20:21:48 <planetmaker> IMHO it makes sense for every grf ;-)
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20:22:16 <supermop> so what is the process?
20:22:26 <supermop> i give you guys my files?
20:22:26 <planetmaker> the other big advantage in my eyes is that the newgrf's source is available there. Thus any gpl requirements about that are fulfilled and you have a bug tracker there, too
20:22:41 <supermop> I sort of have a wierd local workflow system
20:22:57 <supermop> that i use for design stuff as well
20:23:15 <supermop> and more theoretical ideas for grfs down the road
20:23:24 <planetmaker> nah, you "only" need to create a repository. What you put into that - should be everything which qualifies as "source"
20:23:25 <supermop> like rhino models
20:23:50 <planetmaker> As source IMHO qualifies everything which is needed in order to create the current grf
20:23:55 <supermop> which i might later render, then paint over
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20:24:09 <planetmaker> but ... it's a bit up to the author to decide
20:24:21 <supermop> it sounds helpful
20:24:23 <planetmaker> graphics templates, sources, blender... that's imho source
20:24:42 <supermop> unfortunately i do not work in blender,
20:24:44 <planetmaker> what should NOT be inside is the compiled grf or programmes needed
20:24:56 <supermop> and rhino is not open
20:24:59 <planetmaker> oh... blender, render,... whatever :-)
20:25:17 <supermop> also, its really expensive (not as bad as autodesk stuff though)
20:25:23 <supermop> ok
20:25:33 <supermop> so i just make a file of my grf related stuff
20:25:44 <planetmaker> well, not the point. It's just a tool you use to create graphics. The repo contains the graphics :-)
20:25:46 <planetmaker> Not the tools
20:25:56 <supermop> how do i keep different versions separate?
20:26:10 <planetmaker> by using mercurial. It's a version control system
20:26:19 <planetmaker> That's absolutely required in order to use the devzone.
20:26:29 <planetmaker> It's also the means you get stuff uploaded.
20:27:03 <planetmaker> that means probably you'll need to install that
20:27:56 <planetmaker> <-- we made a short and rought guide how to setup mercurial on your machine
20:28:26 <planetmaker> principally a version control system keeps track of every change you make. Thus you can go back to every previous version
20:28:41 <planetmaker> no need to manually copy and rename stuff
20:29:22 <Terkhen> and you will not lose anything unless the devzone is broken :)
20:29:57 <planetmaker> well. Even then you don't loose your stuff ;-)
20:31:57 <Alberth> in fact it gets ridiculously difficult to get rid of anything ;)
20:32:41 <planetmaker> which is the whole point ;-)
20:34:41 <planetmaker> supermop: and it makes it also somewhat easier for others to follow what you do or for you to ask questions about the coding - as everyone can easily get the source code
20:36:14 <supermop> ah ok
20:37:05 <supermop> so should i do this for a grf as soon as i start working on it? or later after it is far enough along for people to look at it without ridiculing me?
20:37:05 <planetmaker> <-- and like that it's also a good way to make me remember stuff I planed, need to fix, ...
20:37:17 <planetmaker> yes, that's a good time :-)
20:37:26 <planetmaker> starting with it right from the start
20:37:59 <supermop> i feel like with mlss, people would have said it was a bad idea before i had something to show what i mean
20:39:02 <planetmaker> supermop: it's not like really many people look at what is newly created at the devzone
20:39:28 <planetmaker> it's a tool for you. Much much more than means to publish anything
20:40:06 <planetmaker> And those who actually look there - they are valuable input usually
20:40:26 <supermop> ok
20:40:52 <supermop> because i think some of my ideas for later might actually annoy or upset people
20:41:02 <planetmaker> so what? Do you care?
20:41:05 <planetmaker> You have to like it
20:41:23 <supermop> as they involve breaking things like the accepted scale(s)
20:41:29 <planetmaker> you do with your newgrf what you consider fun
20:41:35 <supermop> ok
20:41:59 <planetmaker> if people disagree - you can take their advice. But ultimately you're the author.
20:43:04 <planetmaker> Anyone who disagrees can after all make their own newgrf ;-)
20:43:17 <supermop> heh
20:50:04 <planetmaker> <-- you want mercurial and maybe you also want tortoiseHG
20:50:12 <planetmaker> The latter is a GUI interface for it
20:50:34 <Alberth> the only problem is that once you understand the power of version control systems, you cannot work without them :)
20:50:47 <planetmaker> hehe :-)
20:50:57 <planetmaker> There are worse things and addictions in life
20:51:37 <planetmaker> I totally don't understand that my collegues don't make use of it ;-)
20:52:03 <planetmaker> instead they go with like ,... etc :-)
20:53:39 <Terkhen> I lost a pair of university projects before I learned about version control systems
20:53:54 <Terkhen> one was small, the other one not so much
20:54:09 <planetmaker> he :S
20:54:56 <planetmaker> well. it doesn't substitute backups
20:55:47 <Terkhen> well, I lost everything I did since the last backup :)
20:56:17 <Terkhen> which, given how often I forget about these things, was a lot
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21:53:58 <CIA-11> OpenTTD: alberth * r22144 /trunk/src/ (11 files in 7 dirs): -Codechange: Unify 'while (true)' to 'for (;;)'
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21:57:02 <alluke> lulz
21:58:24 <planetmaker> supermop: when you have specific questions about the DevZone and possible setup issues - even though all people there are also here - will be the dedicated channel #openttdcoop.devzone
21:59:03 <supermop> ah ok
21:59:28 <Alberth> planetmaker: lies!
22:00:04 <planetmaker> you're right :-(
22:00:30 * Alberth hugs planetmaker
22:00:35 <planetmaker> :-)
22:01:20 * planetmaker wonders though, how you know while you're not in the devzone channel ;-)
22:01:33 <alluke> aww
22:03:19 <Alberth> /me was very lucky, I read the remark wrong :)
22:03:30 <alluke> sucks that the horses dont work with realistic acceleration :(
22:03:45 <planetmaker> :-D
22:04:09 <alluke> power 0 hp = moves 1/10 kmh
22:04:11 <planetmaker> There's one person there who who's not here - and he never talks, Alberth :-)
22:04:50 <CIA-11> OpenTTD: alberth * r22145 /trunk/src/ (14 files in 8 dirs): -Codechange: Do explicit test for non-bool values.
22:05:36 * Alberth proposes to ban all that do not speak for more than a week
22:05:47 <alluke> is everyone here really just playing ottd when they dont talk
22:06:32 *** alluke has quit IRC
22:06:35 <Alberth> no, I hardly ever play openttd, and there are more such persons here :)
22:06:58 *** alluke has joined #openttd
22:07:02 <Terkhen> he's gone, to play openttd I guess
22:07:14 <Terkhen> oh, and now he's back :)
22:07:16 <alluke> :D
22:07:23 <Alberth> only when he does not say anything :p
22:07:38 <alluke> nah, not playing atm :P
22:07:52 <alluke> but my bus is preparing our next one
22:07:54 <planetmaker> Alberth: that'd give rise for a new bouncer plug-in: keep alive talking
22:07:56 <alluke> bud*
22:08:44 <Terkhen> let's ban everyone who do not say anything on-topic for a week then
22:09:00 <planetmaker> like crotab 12 8 * * * /home/XXX/echo "moin"
22:09:04 <Alberth> we might as well close the channel then :p
22:09:11 <Terkhen> or are we trying to keep the channel with some people in?
22:09:16 <Terkhen> :P
22:09:37 <Alberth> planetmaker: "moin" is not on-topic
22:09:42 <alluke> going to play, seeya
22:09:46 <Alberth> bye
22:09:51 <Terkhen> alluke: enjoy
22:09:55 <alluke> will do ;)
22:10:12 <alluke> but it doesnt mean i have to close this chat
22:10:44 <alluke> and i just found out that i have 3 ottds in my dock
22:10:45 <Alberth> by your own definition, you are just not allowed to say anything :p
22:10:50 <alluke> stable, nightly, and cargodist
22:10:55 <alluke> hah
22:11:03 <planetmaker> Alberth: should it then include the link to the latest openttd screenshot made from our public server?
22:11:12 <planetmaker> that'd be at least somewhat on-topic ;-)
22:11:18 <planetmaker> and spammy ;-)
22:11:49 <Alberth> yeah, would be better for #openttdcoop :)
22:11:53 <alluke> whats that server
22:12:19 <planetmaker> you just left that channel, alluke ;-)
22:12:33 <alluke> coop?
22:12:38 <planetmaker> ^
22:12:57 <alluke> lol irc server :P
22:13:05 <alluke> i thought you were talking about game servers
22:13:27 <planetmaker> ... what do you think that openttdcoop irc channel is about?
22:13:39 <Terkhen> openttdcoop is a game server, you just seem to be using their webchat
22:14:44 <alluke> well, it was first ottd chat i found, and i went there for hunting a grf
22:14:47 <planetmaker> which is also the reason openttdcoop is the default channel ;-)
22:15:12 <Terkhen> :)
22:24:33 <rane> what's the biggest and the fullest graphics overhaul for openttd?
22:24:49 <planetmaker> opengfx
22:25:22 <supermop> also best
22:25:27 <rane> wiki says something about 32bpp but taht's only handful of buildings
22:25:27 <alluke> and opengfx+ junk as extra
22:25:41 <rane> they look amazing though
22:25:54 <alluke> its really heavy afaik
22:26:39 <planetmaker> 32bpp suffers mainly from people trying to do too many things at once
22:27:15 <planetmaker> thus nothing is really finished. And those which are, often not in a format usable by default openttd.
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22:31:09 <supermop> i think 8bpp ez would be neat
22:31:52 <planetmaker> yes.
22:33:53 <planetmaker> it'll need a good scaling algorithm
22:38:32 <supermop> or people willing to draw thousands of sprites of more detailed pixel art
22:39:57 <planetmaker> that doesn't suffice.
22:40:04 <planetmaker> it will need means to deal with newgrfs
22:40:11 <planetmaker> which cannot be updated
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22:44:46 <Terkhen> good night
22:46:26 <deekay> Hi there, letely I've been wondering about idea behind station rating being depending on age of vehicles that come for the cargo. I'm curious where the idea did come from, and why ther's requiement for such "young" vehicles ( <2yo)
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22:58:19 <planetmaker> deekay: it's an original game feature. Ask Chris Sawyer
22:58:33 <planetmaker> TTD handles it that way already afaik
23:00:21 *** DedY_jogJa has joined #openttd
23:00:21 -DedY_jogJa- best site
23:00:21 <DedY_jogJa> free
23:00:21 *** DedY_jogJa has left #openttd
23:00:36 <deekay> Ok. Does OpenTTD aim to duplicate TDD's game logic as it was, or there are any possibilities for changes releated to that? (I couldn't find anything related to "OpenTTD philosophy" behind development or something like that, hence my question)
23:02:23 <alluke> someone should make illegal cargo set
23:03:11 <alluke> including drugs, guns, hos, pirate stuff etc :D
23:03:27 <supermop> that someone could be you
23:03:43 <supermop> not sure many people in the ottd community would be supportive though
23:04:19 <Mazur> Is it possible to move a town centre by eliminating every building in its old centre, while having let is build new houses some way off?
23:04:24 <alluke> well i know nothing about making grfs
23:04:36 <Mazur> s/let is/let it/
23:05:28 <alluke> is danmack here
23:05:51 <Mazur> Try /whois DanMack
23:06:02 <alluke> well hes in the lsit
23:06:08 <alluke> but not active
23:06:22 <Mazur> Then you should know.
23:06:32 <supermop> Mazur, i think the town name sign counts as the town center
23:06:37 <alluke> smartypants
23:06:48 <alluke> i meants is he mentally here
23:07:07 * DanMacK is here... sort of
23:07:09 <supermop> if you delete the road under it, the town will shrink, not move
23:07:17 <alluke> okay
23:07:21 <alluke> i have one request
23:07:24 <DanMacK> I'm physically here.. Mentally... take a raincheck
23:07:28 <DanMacK> Shoot
23:07:30 <alluke> get yo ass up and finish the damn finnish set
23:07:40 <alluke> ive been waiting for it since i got ottd :D
23:08:14 <Mazur> supermop, I know, but like with stations: if you build new platforms some way away for hte same station, and then remove the old, the station sign (and centre) move. Towns could have a similar characteristic.
23:08:46 <DanMacK> Hey, ATM, there's enough sprites for a playable set, I'
23:08:56 <DanMacK> m waiting on my coder :P
23:09:02 <supermop> could, but i do not believe they do
23:09:16 <alluke> okay
23:09:18 * DanMacK looks around and notes Lakie's absence
23:10:18 <alluke> you should at least put out the one which you took those screenshots with
23:10:36 <DanMacK> alot of those were mockups
23:10:50 <DanMacK> Paste is a wonderful thing
23:11:00 <alluke> photoshop?
23:12:48 *** Kurimus has quit IRC
23:12:49 <DanMacK> Paint
23:13:10 <alluke> right
23:13:38 <asilv> any idea how much Lakie has coded the set, or has he started at all? I have coded some finnish set things for my own amusement, and I could do more if Lakie is not interested/doesn't havetime/etc?
23:14:00 <asilv> i think currently drawn things could be coded pretty quickly
23:14:20 <DanMacK> He does have interest and desire, not sure what's coded ATM
23:15:00 <DanMacK> asilv, what have you coded?
23:15:52 <asilv> some mus, wooden coaches and mail cars at least
23:16:10 <DanMacK> I do hope to see some progress soon
23:17:38 <asilv>
23:18:13 <DanMacK> Hmmm
23:18:25 <DanMacK> I really should pull the sprites for that and paint them green now :P
23:18:51 * DanMacK adds that to the lengthy to-do list
23:22:07 * DanMacK really needs to stop joining projects
23:23:16 *** roboboy has joined #openttd
23:24:39 <DanMacK> And for you VR fans that are into model trains,
23:26:09 <asilv> t gauge is insane
23:27:05 <DanMacK> It is
23:27:08 * DanMacK has some
23:27:27 <asilv> I have also been playing with parts of another trainset:
23:27:47 <DanMacK> Can't see youtube from here, what set?
23:27:56 <asilv> usset
23:28:15 <Wolf01> 'night
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23:29:21 <asilv> video has some njt push-pull trains, they are alredy in old versions I just made push-pull part work
23:31:28 <DanMacK> ahhhh
23:31:45 <alluke> wow
23:31:52 <alluke> is there us set 2.0 coming?
23:31:58 <asilv> maybe
23:31:58 * DanMacK is not sure
23:32:06 <alluke> okay
23:33:04 <asilv> i have been slowly working with it but i haven't posted anything yet as i'm not sure will i ever get it done
23:34:48 <DanMacK> Green Eil... interesting
23:37:08 <Sacro> !port
23:37:11 <Sacro> !ports
23:37:14 <Sacro> @ports
23:37:14 <DorpsGek> Sacro: OpenTTD uses TCP and UDP port 3979 for server <-> client communication, UDP port 3978 for masterserver (advertise) communication (outbound), and TCP port 3978 for content service, a.k.a. BaNaNaS (outbound)
23:38:51 <alluke> woot
23:38:54 <alluke> never seen those
23:39:13 <alluke> once been in
23:39:17 <alluke> super comfort
23:40:28 * DanMacK is a mite far to ride on those :P
23:40:40 <alluke> heheh
23:40:48 <DanMacK> LRC's are more my speed
23:41:06 <alluke> what were those again..
23:41:31 <alluke> fast dmu?
23:41:45 <asilv>
23:41:58 <alluke> Wikipedia does not have an article with this exact name. Please search for LRC (train in Wikipedia to check for alternative titles or spellings.
23:41:59 <DanMacK>
23:42:24 <alluke> ok
23:42:32 <DanMacK> The locoos are retired, we only use the coaches now
23:42:40 <alluke> ok
23:42:55 <alluke> i wish i had some diesels in here
23:43:03 <alluke> everything is electric
23:43:09 <alluke> i have seen
23:43:16 <alluke> two times dv12
23:43:55 <alluke> first time it pulled car carriers to pasila and second time it was stopped at the beginning of sandtrack
23:44:03 <DanMacK> heh
23:44:09 * DanMacK would love to see electrics :P
23:44:17 <alluke> :D
23:44:38 <alluke> i miss the sound and smell of those
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23:48:02 <asilv> diesels in Helsinki area are getting rare after the harbours were moved to vuosaari
23:48:02 <asilv> plenty of dv12s and dr16 here in east
23:48:28 <alluke> yeah
23:48:37 <alluke> now the trains go in a tunnel
23:49:19 <alluke> and the harbour track in helsinki
23:49:21 <alluke> r.i.p
23:49:24 <alluke> it was really nice
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23:58:34 <DanMacK> Well, I'll prod Lakie next time I see him :P
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23:59:51 <Venemo> good evening