IRC logs for #openttd on OFTC at 2011-01-04
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00:14:11 <Arkenklo> !password
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00:14:26 <Arkenklo> right.
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00:52:56 <supermop> hey kamnet
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01:16:23 <kamnet> I have returned!
01:16:42 <supermop> nice
01:16:50 <supermop> want to see some brick depots?
01:17:08 <kamnet> Of course!
01:17:52 <supermop> hmm i tried to send it via pm
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01:20:33 <kamnet> File too big?
01:20:50 <kamnet> you can also e-mail it to if you wish
01:20:53 <supermop> ill just send it on the forum
01:20:59 <kamnet> k
01:21:39 <supermop> ok
01:21:44 <kamnet> So now I have three versions of my lots. Need to figure out how to select which graphics I want by parameter
01:22:24 <supermop> can it be done by distance to town?
01:22:39 <supermop> ie different graphics in city centers?
01:22:48 <kamnet> No, it's just a whole replacement.
01:23:12 <kamnet> Although if somebody could code that up, that would be REALLY interesting
01:23:20 <supermop> yeah
01:23:23 <kamnet> But if not then I'll stick to simplicity :D
01:24:20 <supermop> if only newgrf ports gets along
01:24:29 <supermop> so we can have multiple rv stops
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01:28:46 <kamnet> Is that the depot for electrics?
01:29:09 <supermop> yeah
01:29:13 <supermop> the idea is,
01:29:42 <supermop> its an old masonry building, with a later addition to bump out the roof to accomodate newer equipment
01:29:59 <kamnet> cool
01:30:21 <supermop> i might put some 3-phase ac equipment on the flat part of the roof
01:30:25 <supermop> but i am not sure
01:30:31 <kamnet> I was just thinking that
01:31:04 <supermop> as the shop that builds AC locomotives doesnt need tens of thousands of volts right in the work area
01:31:47 <supermop> also as an old depot, it might be safer to assume its for low voltage DC locomotives
01:32:27 <supermop> any thoughts on adding windows to either of those two designs?
01:33:52 <kamnet> I'm indifferent
01:34:51 <supermop> i was thinking the 'dormers' on the top one would be to contain a rail for a small workshop gantry crane rather than illuminatiion
01:35:15 <kamnet> *nod*
01:36:27 <supermop> well i will keep these as is for right now, need to get on to making two metal depots
01:36:53 <supermop> that are different from the metal shheds, and each other
01:37:06 <supermop> i do not like the old one with the huge sawtooth
01:37:50 <kamnet> amecheer's metal sheds?
01:37:55 <supermop> no
01:37:57 <supermop> mine
01:38:09 <supermop> the one in my small depot grf
01:39:57 <kamnet> Oh, okay. Hadn't seen it yet
01:40:01 <supermop> hmm
01:40:15 <supermop> its robably on the first page of my dev thread
01:41:31 <supermop>
01:41:40 <supermop> north most tile in the first picture
01:42:28 <kamnet> Oh? I rather like that one myself.
01:42:38 <kamnet> I use those metal sheds all the time now :D
01:45:59 <supermop> ok
01:46:09 <supermop> well im glad it is well accepted!
01:46:34 <supermop> i still need a different one to differentiate between electric and non electric
01:46:47 <supermop> maybe a third for 3rd rail
01:50:59 <kamnet> OK time for me to go watch wrestling and podcast. See you later!
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04:03:29 <__ln___> morgen
04:54:58 <yuriks> what happens when the same station services both a coal mine and a power plant, for example?
04:55:07 <yuriks> can I deliver coal to it?
04:55:21 <yuriks> (and take coal from it, for that matter)
04:55:27 <supermop> yeah
04:55:37 <supermop> should be able too
04:55:50 <yuriks> ah, thanks
04:57:29 <supermop> infact
04:57:47 <supermop> you could have the same train do both
04:58:59 <supermop> would not receive much money though
05:01:12 <yuriks> I figure
05:01:30 <yuriks> I wanted to fund power stations next to coal mines on opposing sides of the map
05:01:33 <yuriks> to makes heaps of money
05:01:43 <yuriks> but alas, the game isn't letting me do that
05:08:00 <supermop> well, you probably need alot of money already to do that, and build the track
05:08:02 <supermop> so
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05:30:28 <yuriks> supermop: I track all around the map edges already, and a cross
05:32:03 <yuriks> er
05:32:14 <yuriks> I have track all around the map edges already, and across*
05:46:55 <supermop> by the time you can afford that, no real need for making money on coal
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05:59:42 <yuriks> supermop: I'm just competing with a friend on mp to see who can make the most profit xD
06:00:07 <yuriks> I have 50 passenger trains making a single line xD
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09:25:19 <planetmaker> moin
09:29:53 <kamnet> Good morning
09:34:44 <kamnet> Did my 2nd try at the windsock look better?
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09:37:48 <planetmaker> yes, I think so :-)
09:38:14 <planetmaker> but I didn't yet find time to test it ingame.
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09:39:19 <LordAro> moin
09:39:30 <kamnet> Good morning
10:02:53 <Terkhen> good morning
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11:07:02 <CIA-2> OpenTTD: frosch * r21708 /trunk/src/newgrf.cpp: -Add: [NewGRF] Report TTDPatch flag 4A (newobjects) as set.
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11:12:27 <Chrill> hm, I was just wondering, is there an up-to-date version with subsidaries and stuff? so that you can play with multiple companies?
11:15:35 <frosch123> there is infrastructure sharing
11:16:17 <fjb> Moin
11:16:36 <frosch123> moin fjb
11:16:46 <fjb> Quak frosch123
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11:19:18 <fjb> Hm, how about a "light" form of infrastructure sharing where you can join stations of different companies where cargo gets exchanged?
11:23:19 <planetmaker> fjb, already done: use an oil rig ;-)
11:23:37 <frosch123> :p
11:23:39 <planetmaker> it's also realistic: it's an overseas contraband exchange place
11:24:12 <fjb> But only in recent times. :-P
11:24:20 <Terkhen> :D
11:24:29 <planetmaker> :-P
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11:25:11 <peter1138> heh
11:27:26 <peter1138> so did anyone investigate the weird sprite issue with many vehicle sets loaded, beyond saying "don't load so many sets"?
11:27:56 <planetmaker> I loaded it this morning. Things are messed up. But no post-startup newgrf meddling found
11:28:08 <planetmaker> nor any parameter change. Engine pool enabled
11:28:14 <planetmaker> no idea
11:28:30 <peter1138> sprite limit indeed, heh
11:28:46 <peter1138> damn, not all those grfs are on bananas :(
11:28:56 <planetmaker> indeed. I missed three
11:29:03 <planetmaker> even one of my own :-P
11:29:11 <planetmaker> the ttrs3w-nightly :-P
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11:30:47 <frosch123> what spritelimit is it?
11:30:59 <peter1138> quite
11:31:02 <peter1138> there shouldn't be one
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11:31:26 <planetmaker> he
11:32:01 <planetmaker> well. the WAS indeed has probably literally thousands of real sprites, but well...
11:32:07 <frosch123> there is a limit for grm reserved action a sprites :p
11:32:43 <planetmaker> grm-reserve an actionA sprite means that no other newgrf should modify it?
11:32:53 <planetmaker> do newgrfs obey that? :-P
11:33:26 <frosch123> planetmaker: there is a triplicated ecs-bug report on fs :)
11:33:36 <planetmaker> nice :-P
11:33:43 <peter1138> yeah, for grm sprites there's a limit, but then grm should fail
11:34:01 <peter1138> (and why would a vehicle set use grm sprites?)
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11:34:14 <planetmaker> replace existing vehicles only?
11:34:41 <peter1138> you'd just overwrite the sprites in that case
11:36:37 <frosch123> "Eigene Dateien/mb/ttdlx/sprites/newvehicles/DBXL_ECS" <- suddenly some comments make sense
11:37:08 <planetmaker> hm?
11:37:15 <peter1138> in that grf list (albiet i'm missing a couple), only indstatrw uses GRM
11:37:22 <frosch123> contains quite some mess
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11:38:41 <peter1138> 77000 sprites or something
11:39:08 <Yexo> so a bit over 2**16
11:39:12 <planetmaker> hola. not a little. Maybe indeed somwhere ^
11:39:16 <planetmaker> overflow?
11:42:11 <frosch123> how do i build ttrs4?
11:42:27 <planetmaker> ttrs4?
11:42:49 <frosch123>
11:43:00 <frosch123> make seems totally broken
11:43:15 <planetmaker> that doesn't really exist... it's mostly unfinished stuff. It's not yet in any form a makefile builds it
11:43:24 <frosch123> oh
11:43:38 <planetmaker> the ttrs in that game is probably a version of my pimped ttrs3
11:43:39 <frosch123> ah, i should try ttrs :)
11:44:27 <planetmaker>
11:44:36 <planetmaker> ^ for download, IIRC it's r16 which he used
11:45:08 <frosch123> ok,. only NewMonorailW missing
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11:46:50 <frosch123> found it :)
11:47:18 <Yexo> where?
11:47:26 <frosch123>
11:47:37 <frosch123> even all md5sums match :o
11:48:45 <planetmaker> woohoo :-)
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11:48:51 <Yexo> I still can't find the correct ttrs3w.grf
11:49:00 <peter1138> it's r24
11:49:04 <planetmaker> oh.
11:49:05 <peter1138> not r16
11:49:06 <frosch123> Yexo: tip matches
11:49:20 <planetmaker> sorry, faulty memory :-)
11:49:47 <Yexo> ah, thanks ;)
11:49:56 <Yexo> apparently r16 even has a different grfid
11:50:16 <planetmaker> not that. But different min compatible version ;-)
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11:50:26 <planetmaker> IIRC that is.
11:50:45 <planetmaker> if the ID is really different something's wrong
11:50:57 <Yexo> ah, could also be
11:51:18 <peter1138> src/vehicle_base.h: uint16 cur_image; ///< sprite number for this vehicle
11:51:21 <peter1138> derp
11:51:23 <Yexo> at least openttd still showed it as "not found" when I had r16, it didn't show "found with wrong md5sum"
11:51:38 <planetmaker> he
11:51:49 * peter1138 recompiles
11:52:20 <planetmaker> hm, maybe one should then show another error message like "incompatible version found" when the grfID is actually there...
11:52:20 <frosch123> that even needs a savegame bump :o
11:52:38 <peter1138> it shouldn't be saved
11:52:55 <frosch123> it is for disaster vehicles
11:53:00 <peter1138> oh
11:53:16 <frosch123> but FILE_I16 | VAR_I32 should suffice
11:53:27 <planetmaker> yeah
11:53:35 <planetmaker> they're in the < 5000 range :-)
11:54:27 <planetmaker> though... I'd prefer to actually up the savegame version. No possible pitfall then when we ever get newgrf disasters.
11:54:36 <planetmaker> or?
11:54:56 <frosch123> planetmaker: i am not sure whether disaster vehicles actually store a spritenumber there
11:55:07 <frosch123> they may as well use it for something completely different
11:55:07 <planetmaker> :-O
11:55:26 <planetmaker> ok, then it doesn't matter
11:55:28 <Yexo> well done peter1138 :)
11:55:34 <planetmaker> ^
11:55:37 <Yexo> seems to solve the problem
11:56:17 <frosch123> planetmaker: ok, it is used for sprites, but once you have a newgrf provided sprite there you cannot store it in the save anyway
11:56:30 <planetmaker> right.
11:56:35 <peter1138> SPR_ROTOR_MOVING_3
11:56:35 <planetmaker> :-)
11:56:39 <peter1138> so... bump or no bu
11:56:42 <peter1138> mp?
11:56:55 <frosch123> no bump, only FILE_I16 | VAR_I32
11:56:59 <frosch123> even backportable :)
11:57:12 <peter1138> eh, U16/U32
11:57:16 <frosch123> or that :)
12:04:21 <CIA-2> OpenTTD: peter1138 * r21709 /trunk/src/ (saveload/vehicle_sl.cpp vehicle_base.h): -Fix (r8128): Vehicle sprite was cached into a 16 bit variable, causing incorrect sprites to be displayed.
12:05:15 <peter1138> Enjoy your big recompile :D
12:06:21 <planetmaker> now you should tell this poor chap that he's found a nice bug :-)
12:07:01 <peter1138> I replied...
12:07:35 <planetmaker> :-)
12:08:54 <peter1138> that's my quota of openttd commits for the year...
12:09:00 <planetmaker> :-(
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12:18:02 <frosch123> you forgot the oldloader
12:18:11 <peter1138> oh
12:18:44 <SmatZ> I am confused by the fact that value stored in savegames can be invalid
12:18:54 <SmatZ> and it doesn't cause any problems...
12:18:59 <peter1138> ?
12:19:00 <SmatZ> why is it stored then?
12:19:01 <planetmaker> which value?
12:19:10 <peter1138> SmatZ, it's not stored for normal vehicles
12:19:12 <SmatZ> planetmaker: SLE_VAR(Vehicle, cur_image, SLE_FILE_U16 | SLE_VAR_U32),
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12:19:57 <SmatZ> peter1138: you sure know what you are doing, I am just wondering it doesn't break anything :)
12:20:46 <peter1138> the saved value will be below 16384 because it's only saved for original TTD sprites
12:20:48 <planetmaker> SmatZ, if it's only disaster vehicles where the sprite is stored, it cannot be invalid as a disaster vehicle always has a sprite which originates in the base set
12:21:09 <dihedral> good morning
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12:22:00 <planetmaker> moin dihedral
12:22:40 <CIA-2> OpenTTD: peter1138 * r21710 /trunk/src/saveload/oldloader_sl.cpp: -Fix (r8128): Update oldloader for change in vehicle cur_image size.
12:22:53 <Rubidium> oh noes... does that fullfill the 2012 quota as well?
12:23:07 <Rubidium> :)
12:23:23 <dihedral> lol
12:23:28 <peter1138> yup
12:23:29 <frosch123> at least it saved a recompile for me :p
12:24:53 <SmatZ> peter1138 / planetmaker thanks :)
12:25:37 <planetmaker> always welcome :-)
12:25:50 <dihedral> <- yumm :-S
12:25:52 * dihedral wants
12:26:30 <Terkhen> wow :)
12:26:36 <peter1138> SmatZ, probably a comment in at the saveload line would've been useful... never mind :s
12:27:00 <dihedral> 1600mm wingspan is not bad for that
12:27:12 <dihedral> that is pretty big for an impeller jet
12:28:04 <planetmaker> dihedral, a collegue of mine built his own remote-controlled jet engine with 2m wing span and 400km/h max speed ;-)
12:28:30 <planetmaker> it was his diploma thesis ;-)
12:29:03 <planetmaker> but then... he built such stuff all the years before already, too ;-) - just a quarter of that size :-P
12:29:05 <Terkhen> that's a fun thesis :)
12:29:12 <planetmaker> yeah :-)
12:29:27 <planetmaker> if anyone needs something fixed, he can fix it...
12:29:36 <planetmaker> he's genious in that stuff
12:30:00 <dihedral>
12:30:01 <dihedral> :-P
12:30:23 <dihedral> they could not order the turbines from jetcat because they are not made in the size they needed :-P
12:30:41 <planetmaker> he also told the certified car workshop how to do a certain modification of the car which he wanted done ;-) but couldn't do completely himself.
12:30:56 <planetmaker> by giving them the repair and installationg guid from the manufacturer...
12:31:53 <frosch123> he, "You exceeded the maximum allowed number of login attempts. In addition to your username and password you now also have to solve the CAPTCHA below." ... who attacked my tt forums account?
12:32:15 <dihedral> hehe
12:32:46 <planetmaker> sudden pin and password amnesia?
12:32:47 <dihedral> i like this b-2
12:33:22 <frosch123> planetmaker: not by me
12:33:41 <frosch123> someone else tried logging in
12:33:59 <planetmaker> hm...
12:34:11 <Yexo> hmm, after loging out and trying to log in I get exactly the same
12:34:12 <Terkhen> :S
12:34:12 <planetmaker> so it's a DOS on your account. How evil
12:34:25 <planetmaker> uh :-(
12:34:55 <Terkhen> not me
12:34:55 <planetmaker> I did it once myself with my account, but... several of you at once means someone is earnestly trying to hack ...
12:35:22 <dihedral> or your cookies expired :-P
12:35:27 <dihedral> and badlyl handled in phpbb
12:35:38 <frosch123> i do not use cookies at tt-forums
12:36:27 <planetmaker> and the off-topic gets spammed
12:37:34 <roboboy> heh
12:37:44 <roboboy> megaspam
12:37:54 <roboboy> 50 by the one user
12:38:33 <Terkhen> :S
12:38:58 <Terkhen> wasn't there a limit for posting too fast?
12:39:09 <dihedral> who?
12:40:11 <planetmaker> but only in 4 threads or so
12:40:20 <planetmaker> that makes it easy/ier
12:40:53 <roboboy> it replied to otself
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12:57:05 <LordAro> channel topic needs changing ;)
12:57:25 <dihedral> @topic remove -1
12:57:25 *** DorpsGek changes topic to "1.0.5 | Website: * (translator: translator, server list: servers, wiki: wiki, patches & bug-reports: bugs, revision log: vcs, release info: finger) | Don't ask to ask, just ask | 'Latest' is not a valid version | English only"
12:57:36 <LordAro> :D
12:57:52 <LordAro> also, anyone know what's up with
12:58:22 <dihedral>
12:58:24 <dihedral> :-P
12:59:38 <SpComb> did he say up or down?
12:59:49 <LordAro> it's down :p
13:02:40 <SpComb> well, it's running on xen, so
13:03:00 <dihedral> perhaps the httpd got a shot :-P
13:03:12 <dihedral> @logs
13:03:12 <DorpsGek> dihedral:
13:03:40 <SpComb> nah, kernel shot itself
13:03:47 <dihedral> hehe
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13:30:00 <Wolf01> hello!
13:30:45 <dihedral> hello Wolf01
13:31:05 <SpComb> OOM'ing it fixed it, though
13:31:21 <SpComb> some flup/FastCGI issue
13:32:29 <roboboy> grrrr
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13:33:36 <__ln___> good morning Wolf01
13:33:42 <dihedral> <- that must have hurt :-S
13:34:06 <dihedral> and someone was probably very surprised to have a plane appear in their garden :-P
13:38:35 <Wolf01> eheh
13:43:19 <SpComb> googlebot does terrible things to the irclogs search
13:46:31 <dihedral> like what?
13:50:42 <SpComb> like crawling 600 pages of search results or something
13:51:02 <dihedral> heh
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13:53:13 <SpComb>
13:53:27 <SpComb> weird
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13:53:50 <Eddi|zuHause> isn't there a robots.txt for these things?
13:55:08 <dihedral> too late for that, unless you have a google account + an id on the website and then tell google to remove certain url's and also then amend the robots.txt
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13:58:28 <CIA-2> OpenTTD: frosch * r21711 /trunk/src/misc_gui.cpp: -Change: Display the minimal height of the tile in the LandInfo window instead of the height of the northern corner. So it is more useful for NewGRF and AI developers, and maybe more transparent for players.
14:02:38 <Eddi|zuHause> i'd still go for maximum height... but whatever...
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14:12:46 <Wolf01> woot!
14:13:12 <peter1138> quite
14:13:51 <Wolf01> each time I disconnect my DSL line works better
14:14:16 <Wolf01> now I have 20dB SNR, before I had 17dB
14:15:46 <peter1138> that happens when the speed drops ;p
14:16:43 <Wolf01> 24xxKbps stable
14:16:56 <Wolf01> *stable*
14:17:11 <Wolf01> at connection
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14:20:42 <Belugas> hello
14:20:59 <Wolf01> hello mister
14:21:29 <Belugas> hello mister Wolf01 :)
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14:51:22 <planetmaker> hello sir Belugas & happy new year to you
14:52:46 <Eddi|zuHause> canadian new year is 4 days later? :p
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14:57:16 <Belugas> Dear Eddi|zuHause ;)
14:57:43 <Belugas> planetmaker, may this year bring you the shot of the century!
14:57:58 <Belugas> and... all tho9se pleasant things ;)
14:57:58 <__ln___> Eddi|zuHause: that happens with a 20-hour clock
14:58:33 <Eddi|zuHause> __ln___: at least that is more metric than 24 :p
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15:27:58 <supermop> hello
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15:38:07 <OTTDmaster> Lord Aro, you there?
15:38:07 <dihedral> heh - OTTDmaster ^^
15:38:15 <OTTDmaster> I'm back
15:38:34 <dihedral> i think his nick is written without the space ;-)
15:38:40 <OTTDmaster> I finally figured out what my pass was
15:40:15 <OTTDmaster> AKA ZirconiumX
15:40:48 <OTTDmaster> On the forums it does have the space
15:40:56 <LordAro> my name is only written with a space when i'm not allowed to have one ;)
15:41:16 <dihedral> that does not make sense ^^
15:41:31 <dihedral> OTTDmaster, i prefered your other nick :-D
15:41:31 <OTTDmaster> he is a lawbreaker
15:41:32 <LordAro> *without :P
15:41:36 <dihedral> ah
15:41:52 <OTTDmaster> hold on
15:42:09 <dihedral> i would like to but ...
15:42:10 <dihedral> @seen on
15:42:10 <DorpsGek> dihedral: I have not seen on.
15:42:31 <LordAro> :)
15:42:37 <OTTDmaster> :P
15:42:56 * OTTDmaster holds whoever calls themselves on
15:43:46 <OTTDmaster> Isn't there an IRC command to use the nick when the name is already there?
15:44:05 <OTTDmaster> ok I'll change
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15:44:23 <LordAro> generally an irc client thing (chatzilla i think)
15:44:48 <ZirconiumX> I'm here as I normally am
15:45:15 <LordAro> request a nick change to orudge (or wait until the next one comes around)
15:45:24 <LordAro> for the forums
15:45:31 <ZirconiumX> OK
15:47:27 <orudge> The next one won't be for a little while
15:47:29 <orudge> since we just had one
15:47:32 <orudge> but keep an eye on the News forum
15:47:33 <orudge> when you see one, post
15:47:48 <ZirconiumX> I've PM'd you, sorry
15:48:04 <LordAro> i thought that might attract your attention
15:48:15 <LordAro> ZirconiumX: just delete it ;)
15:48:46 <ZirconiumX> ok
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16:09:37 <DanMacK> Hey all
16:12:28 <planetmaker> hey DanMacK
16:12:40 <planetmaker> very lovely planes you got there drawn or modified :-)
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16:14:42 <DanMacK> TY :D
16:14:58 <DanMacK> Helicopters are on the way as well
16:15:22 <supermop> i want a helicopter
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16:15:41 <supermop> i have this chair in my apartment that I need to get to princeton
16:15:52 <supermop> too bulky to get on an NJT train with it
16:17:07 <dihedral> <- wow - i have hardly ever read harsh words from planetmaker ^^
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16:18:31 <LordAro> :D n00bs...
16:19:14 <supermop> burn
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16:20:42 <planetmaker> dihedral, do you think it's harsh?
16:21:08 <planetmaker> And yes, the posting I responded to was reported for good reasons which I try to outline nicely :-)
16:21:33 <dihedral> well :-) compared to what i usually read from you :-P
16:21:59 <dihedral> so just a relatively harsh - and not uncalled for
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16:22:36 <planetmaker> then I failed in being polite but making clear the rules at the same time :-(
16:22:50 <dihedral> eh - no
16:23:19 <dihedral> very clear, with a firm tone :-P
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16:23:56 <dihedral> the only thing not applicable here is 'old threads'
16:23:58 <dihedral> :-P
16:24:01 <LordAro> planetmaker: you just may have scared them away from the forums :P
16:24:14 <dihedral> well - that is hardly his fault
16:24:42 * LordAro agrees
16:25:01 <dihedral> and i do think it's good to know that pm has that side too :-D
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16:26:48 <planetmaker> did he leave or delete his account? That's unfortunate, but then it's not a loss
16:27:31 <dihedral> 51 posts can hardly be considered even that he was very present :-P
16:27:57 <dihedral> of which (at least) one is utter bs
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16:28:49 <ZirconiumX> he's here though
16:28:58 <ZirconiumX> Last visited: Tue Jan 04, 2011 1:42 pm
16:30:37 * dihedral looks for some coding work ...
16:30:56 <LordAro> more ai-related stuff! :D
16:31:16 <dihedral> hmm - rather not, but what you want?
16:32:05 <LordAro> you could give the guys at more-height-levels a hand getting it to trunk before the branch happens...
16:32:27 <dihedral> i am quite honestly not very interested in that thing ^^
16:32:38 <planetmaker> LordAro, for the 1.2 branch?
16:32:52 <dihedral> hehe
16:33:08 <dihedral> yeah - that's another thing - i doubt it would walk into trunk that quickly
16:33:47 <LordAro> planetmaker: probably half way inbetween - about the time that 1.1.3 occurs :) (not in it though obviously)
16:33:53 * LordAro tries to think of other things...
16:33:58 <planetmaker> that's the time frame I see, if they were actually working on it and improving matters. It's currently very hard to read and very despite the sequential patch script not straight forward
16:34:59 * DanMacK just added rotor sprites accidentally as a bug - Needs to be changed to Code Review :P
16:35:12 <dihedral> i owe you guys a fix ;-)
16:35:17 <DanMacK> #2117
16:35:18 <planetmaker> Everyone of us probably spent some time reading through some of those huge list of patches... it will help a lot, if small things get separated even more and things were not made that much conditional as they are
16:35:26 <dihedral> admin network is not updated when a client changes the password currently
16:35:49 <planetmaker> bad bad bad. You can only mend that by writing that fix ;-)
16:36:00 <LordAro> :O
16:36:12 <dihedral> :-P
16:36:16 <ZirconiumX> O_o
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16:37:10 <dihedral> fs4368 addresses that secretly :-S
16:37:18 <LordAro> planetmaker: if i can be bothered, i might pm Chilcore with the conversation :)
16:37:50 <planetmaker> he knows that in principle
16:37:58 <LordAro> true...
16:38:10 <dihedral> and i think it's his job to find out if not
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16:38:50 <Yexo> LordAro: occasionally small things from that patch make it to trunk, but until they start splitting it up better not much
16:39:10 <dihedral> what's the point of a patch author who is only interested in quickly putting something together and does not work on it after published? idealy people are around to even fix bugs that could show up even when included in trunk
16:39:57 <Yexo> it could give other people some ideas about improvements, but usually there is indeed no point
16:40:17 <Yexo> at least not to the community at large
16:40:23 <supermop> chilcore seems pretty dedicated to maintaining his patches over the long term to me...
16:40:31 <Yexo> for him/her self it could've been just an excercise to write the patch
16:41:37 <Yexo> supermop: but if the patch isn't up to the openttd coding standard than just updating doesn't really help the chances of it making trunk, it needs improvements to the patch
16:41:41 <dihedral> supermop, then there should be the same dedication in doing what is nessesary in order to prepare it for trunk inclusion
16:41:44 <Yexo> which don't really seem to happen to mhl
16:42:12 <Terkhen> IMO the first step should be splitting the code in small patches that do a single thing
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16:42:33 <Yexo> splitting up in _logical_ small patches, yet
16:42:44 <Yexo> they've already split up the patch, but quite randomly
16:43:30 <Terkhen> yes
16:43:35 <planetmaker> quite so, yes
16:43:47 <planetmaker> and IMHO the many conditionals don't help either
16:43:55 <planetmaker> like if this patch is applied then that etc
16:43:58 <dihedral> personally i'd do the splitting quite at the end
16:44:10 <planetmaker> that's what they did...
16:44:12 <planetmaker> somewhat
16:44:13 <dihedral> else you have many patches which need updating and touching many times
16:44:23 <planetmaker> dihedral, that's what you have mq for :-P
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16:44:28 <dihedral> hmmpf ok
16:44:31 <dihedral> :-P
16:44:44 <dihedral> KouDy is very good at marking every 2 minutes
16:44:57 <planetmaker> but yes, even with mq it sometimes makes rather sense to develop in a separate repo
16:45:33 <planetmaker> really big things at least. like newgrf airports or alike
16:45:43 <planetmaker> or yapf
16:46:03 <Yexo> or mhl, I think it fits that category
16:46:43 <dihedral> mhl?
16:46:51 <LordAro> Chilcore said something about not getting the hang of a hg repo... (as it would be i presume)
16:46:54 <Terkhen> it should be easy to find small logical patches, though
16:46:58 <Yexo> dihedral: more height levels
16:46:58 <Terkhen> for mhl
16:47:09 <dihedral> ah
16:47:16 <Yexo> LordAro: could be, but that's his problem
16:47:28 <Terkhen> the code is essentialy a lot of codechanges and fixes, followed by activating the feature itself
16:47:49 <Yexo> indeed, but it's up to chillcore (or whoever is creating that patch) to do that
16:47:53 <planetmaker> yeah
16:47:56 <Terkhen> so you could do single patches for things like "fixing aircraft flying height"
16:48:02 <planetmaker> it's a wonderful feature.
16:48:14 <planetmaker> But now the patch exists one time, if I were the author, I'd rewrite it ;-)
16:48:20 <planetmaker> taking my old code just as reference
16:48:40 <planetmaker> that'd make separation into these sub-tasks also easier
16:48:51 <Yexo> same here, and do the rewrite directly as mq patch series
16:49:00 <planetmaker> yep. That's what I'd do
16:49:13 <planetmaker> once in a repo all-in. And then re-write as mq
16:49:27 <dihedral> how many height levels does it introduce? 128?
16:49:35 <planetmaker> people just don't see that usually and assume you and me and the others just write it that way from scratch ;-)
16:49:53 <planetmaker> I did that, too. 3 years ago :-P
16:50:08 <Yexo> heh, true
16:50:10 <Terkhen> IIRC 256
16:50:14 <Terkhen> too much IMO
16:50:19 <Terkhen> I'd be happy with just 32
16:50:27 <planetmaker> that's just twice as now
16:50:42 <Terkhen> I would also rewrite it from scratch, to make things clear and tidy
16:50:48 <Terkhen> that's what I had to do with rv acceleration
16:50:50 <dihedral> i think it's way too much
16:50:55 <LordAro> didn't it start with a small number like 32/64?
16:50:58 <Terkhen> and IMO it paid off to start again
16:51:08 <planetmaker> :-) It usually does. For me at least
16:51:08 <Yexo> if you're going to introcue more height levels and you need a new byte array for the heights, you might as well extend to 256 (or at least keep the option open to do that)
16:51:24 <Terkhen> hmm... that's true
16:51:29 <dihedral> Yexo, of course
16:51:35 <dihedral> but i'd not default it to that
16:51:48 <Yexo> that's just a matter of changing a single value
16:51:54 <Terkhen> yes :)
16:51:57 <dihedral> or rather set it to 128 and default to 32
16:52:03 <dihedral> or 64 max
16:52:24 <planetmaker> well, it needs no default value. If, there needs no configuration on the max height... I think
16:52:37 <planetmaker> But a compile-time constant or so
16:53:12 * LordAro imagines the hell larger-maps-patch-writers would have to go through if mhl ever reached trunk :D
16:53:19 <LordAro> or the other way round...
16:53:50 <Yexo> actually I doubt these two conflict very much
16:53:56 <Terkhen> they don't
16:54:04 <Terkhen> back then I could easily compile both patches together
16:54:04 <planetmaker> :)
16:54:10 <dihedral> and teach the map generator to clamp at a certain hight also
16:54:22 <planetmaker> back then when you were an "evilz hakkorz"?
16:54:33 <Terkhen> there are some great screenshots at the start of the mhl thread
16:54:38 <planetmaker> yeah
16:54:40 <Yexo> map generator is seperate from more heigh levels too, you can easily introduce more heigh levels without adapting the map generate
16:54:42 <Terkhen> no, back then when I had no idea of OpenTTD code
16:54:59 <Terkhen> or about how projects like this one work
16:55:49 <LordAro> Yexo, Terkhen: really? i just sort of assumed they conflicted due to the array changes (Like Terkhen years ago, i have no(t much) idea how OTTD code works) :D
16:56:22 <Terkhen> mhl changes how a tile works, bigger maps changes the amount of tiles
16:57:05 * LordAro thinks of something else...
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17:02:15 <planetmaker> splitting off and modifying the map generator might be a very good thing. But maybe not even needed anymore, if *someone* earnestly picks up the map generation topic and converts it into something 'executable'
17:02:28 <planetmaker> or rather patch-usable ;-)
17:03:02 <LordAro> you mean the thread by Thief^ ?
17:03:34 <Terkhen> the first step should be agreeing on a spec IMO
17:07:39 <planetmaker> well. First IMHO I'd really separate the two issues of map generation and more height levels ;-)
17:07:58 <planetmaker> then 1/3 of the patch is already shaved off.
17:08:37 <Terkhen> they are quite separate, yes
17:11:18 <ZirconiumX> @Terkhen What about an algorithm that takes in code and creates a map
17:11:44 <LordAro> like a newgrf you mean?
17:11:49 <ZirconiumX> code being someone saying I want a mountain a (X,Y) a raiver at (Z,A)
17:11:57 <ZirconiumX> in a way yes
17:12:13 <planetmaker> that's called height maps...
17:12:29 <Terkhen> ZirconiumX: check GeoGen
17:12:34 <planetmaker> but yes, read the thread
17:13:16 <dihedral>
17:13:49 <dihedral> i'll update the console command (company_pw) then too
17:14:24 <LordAro> woo.
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17:17:36 <dihedral> if someone would like to commit that patch, that would be wonderful. it fixes the fact that when the password set bit for a company changed the admin network would not receive a company update packet
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17:22:45 <LordAro> dihedral: it probably needs to split into a logical patch queue first :P
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17:23:22 <dihedral> it is in one ;-)
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17:31:08 <LordAro> question: why is OpenTTD GPLv2 and not GPLv3?
17:32:24 <dihedral> when was gpl3 made?
17:32:38 <Rubidium> because it's not licensed as GPLv2+ by Ludde and a GPLv3 didn't come till years after OpenTTD existed as GPLv2 application
17:33:14 <LordAro> dihedral: published 07, i believe
17:33:24 <dihedral> now check when OpenTTD had it's first release
17:33:30 <LordAro> Rubidium: so only Ludde can change it?
17:33:33 <dihedral> Rubidium, i was leading up to it :-P
17:33:43 <dihedral> LordAro, everybody involved together
17:34:09 <LordAro> i know that, i'll rephrase: "why wasn't OpenTTD upgraded to GPLv3?" :p
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17:34:23 <Terkhen> everybody with a commit or patch committed must agree on that
17:34:30 <dihedral> now that is a different issue LordAro
17:34:42 <HalfBit> Terkhen: not exactly
17:35:06 <HalfBit> You can distribute and/or upgrade a GPLv2 application under GPLv3 terms
17:35:10 <dihedral> it's hardly or even not possible to a) get hold of everybody who ever added code to the project b) get them to agree
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17:35:16 <HalfBit> thanks to "any later version" part of the GPLv2
17:35:21 <HalfBit> But not the opposite
17:35:31 <Prof_Frink> Only if "any later version" is specified.
17:35:37 <HalfBit> If someone updates the application to GPLv3 or a fork
17:35:50 <HalfBit> then that fork can't be distributed under GPLv2
17:35:51 <Prof_Frink> Some software (eg. linux kernel) is "GPLv2 only".
17:35:53 <dihedral> that nice little line is not included in OpenTTD ;-)
17:35:57 <Rubidium> HalfBit: then OpenTTD must be licensed as "GPLv2 or any later version", but OpenTTD is GPLv2 only
17:35:57 <Terkhen> GPLv2 != GPLv2+ IIRC
17:36:27 <HalfBit> Then it is the GPLv2 minus the "any later version" paragraph
17:36:38 <HalfBit> ok
17:37:16 <Rubidium> LordAro: it's not GPLv3 because then every copyright owner of OpenTTD's code must agree
17:37:34 <Rubidium> which is something I wouldn't bother trying to figure out
17:37:39 <dihedral> heh - that'll be VERY difficult :-P
17:37:51 <supermop> ahh my yorkshire tea is ruined!
17:37:51 <dihedral> nor even try to attempt after figuring it out :-P
17:38:02 <Rubidium> you'll probably even fail at identifying all copyright holders
17:38:33 <LordAro> why don't you just upgrade and then if anyone complains, change it back?
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17:39:38 <Terkhen> for the same reason you don't take people's things and return them only if they complain :P
17:39:56 <__ln___> LordAro: that would be extremely ridiculous
17:40:14 <__ln___> LordAro: not to mention illegal
17:41:06 <LordAro> don't care :P
17:41:30 <LordAro> ok, forget i ever asked that question...
17:41:59 * LordAro runs away
17:42:10 <Rubidium> isn't it listed in the FaQ?
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17:42:44 <LordAro> FAQ of what?
17:43:10 <HalfBit> food for thought: the entire application doesn't need to have a single license. You can migrate parts of the application to GPLv3 if you want, and leave the rest GPLv2
17:43:22 <__ln___> does any of the copyright holders present right now right here have any desire to move to GPLv3?
17:43:43 <LordAro> you can move my bit :p
17:43:46 <HalfBit> this is effective if you want some restrictions of GPLv3 (anti-tivoization, for example), but you can't reach everyone to agree to upgrade from GPLv2
17:44:16 <Terkhen> unless there is a compelling reason to do so, I don't care
17:44:25 <Rubidium> HalfBit: only under certain circumstances which I doubt are right for OpenTTD
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17:45:36 <Rubidium> and tivoization isn't a big problem for OpenTTD yet
17:46:06 <Rubidium> after all, getting it legally on an iPhone/iPod/iWhatever is pretty troublesome
17:46:26 <Rubidium> (GPLv2 and Apple's ToS collide)
17:46:42 <Rubidium> similarly for Android IIRC
17:46:42 <dihedral> get everybody who provides code to agree to hand over copyright to the openttd project
17:46:46 <dihedral> Rubidium, where exactly to they collide?
17:46:47 <HalfBit> yes, depends if you have a compelling reason to migrate to GPLv3. I'm just commenting because I remember some projects that did exactly that
17:47:00 <Rubidium> dihedral:
17:48:13 * frosch123 pondered moving grf2html from gplv3 to gplv2+ :p
17:49:14 <Rubidium> even then I doubt changing OpenTTD to GPLv3 by tricks is really what's meant by GPLv2
17:49:21 <frosch123> just to give an example for v3 -> v2+ transition
17:49:44 <Rubidium> maybe grf2html (in the future)?
17:51:07 <frosch123> well, if i could be bothered, i would port it to c++, share half of the data with nforenum, and consider merging into grfcodec/nforenum package
17:52:17 <__ln___> HalfBit: the licence is actually irrelevant, as no openttd dev is ever going to go defend their copyright in a court.
17:52:25 * Rubidium wonders what kind of (time) scales to use for limiting the number of terraformed tiles, e.g. 1 tile per day, or even tiles per annum? Then you can make it extremely small
17:52:33 <ZirconiumX> Yexo, would the equalvalent for Bus be Cargo?
17:52:56 <Yexo> I hav eno idea what you're talking about
17:53:12 <Yexo> the equavalent _of what_ for a bus?
17:53:17 <ZirconiumX> e.g. station = BuildBusRouteObject(town, "station"); station = BuildCargoRouteObject(town, "station");
17:53:21 <HalfBit> __ln___: usually you leave that part to people like
17:53:37 <Rubidium> and then with a start buffer of say 100, you could make building a route for older companies much harder due to the limited amount of terraforming they're allowed
17:53:48 <frosch123> Rubidium: maybe the same as for commands? i.e. some average value per year/month, and some short-time value per week/day?
17:53:49 <Yexo> ZirconiumX: BuildBusRouteObject is not an API function, nor something used in AdmiralAI, so I have no idea why you ask me
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17:54:25 <Rubidium> frosch123: yeah, but I'm thinking what timescale to base the "average" on
17:54:56 <Rubidium> but I'm definitely going to reuse the command/data limit technique
17:54:57 <frosch123> longer than a year does not sound useful
17:55:05 <frosch123> then you could as well use the town rating or so
17:55:10 <LordAro> Yexo: he only want ideas on the naming of functions, however, i don't dobt that you couldn't care less about it
17:55:10 <__ln___> HalfBit: i don't think would do that either because of the uncertain copyright of openttd code.
17:55:16 <LordAro> *doubt
17:55:32 <Yexo> ah, in that case I'd suggest "Truck"
17:55:59 <Rubidium> frosch123: problem with scales more than or equal to a day is that we're only adding to the daylength problems
17:56:08 <Rubidium> unless we go for some scale like 1000 ticks
17:56:12 <Rubidium> @calc 1000/74
17:56:12 <DorpsGek> Rubidium: 13.5135135135
17:56:19 <Rubidium> @calc 2500/74
17:56:19 <DorpsGek> Rubidium: 33.7837837838
17:56:21 <HalfBit> __ln___: uncertain why? Isn't it GPLv2 except where stated otherwise? I think this is enough.
17:57:26 <Yexo> __ln___: while the copyright of the original code might be disputed, the copyright of all modifications done to that code and all new code introduced over the years is very clear
17:57:54 <frosch123> the next "nice" number would be 256 ticks
17:57:56 <__ln___> HalfBit: yes, but OpenTTD is interpreted to be a derivative of the original TTD.
17:58:14 <frosch123> i.e. the tileloop cycle
17:58:17 <Rubidium> @calc 30/(256/74)
17:58:17 <DorpsGek> Rubidium: 8.671875
17:58:26 <Rubidium> @calc 365/(256/74)
17:58:26 <DorpsGek> Rubidium: 105.5078125
17:58:40 <Yexo> that doesn't actually matter, someone copying openttd would be infringing the copyright of all new code, whether or not he's also infriningen copyright of the original TTD doesn't really matter
17:58:53 <Rubidium> so at least 100 terraformed corners per year (or nothing)
17:59:39 <__ln___> Yexo: that's true... although if the situation was reversed, GPL-believers would claim anything ever written as GPL will always and forever be a derivative.
17:59:55 <frosch123> the yearly limit could also affect terraforming cost or so
18:00:11 <__ln___> even if the original thing is 1% of the code base.
18:00:30 <Yexo> __ln___: if I distribute a derative of a GPL product the derative is not automatically GPL (if it's not, I have no right to distribute it, but it doesn't automatically become GPL)
18:00:41 <Rubidium> or the closer you're to the limit the more expensive it becomes?
18:00:58 <__ln___> Yexo: that's also true
18:01:08 <LordAro> Rubidium, frosch123: can i ask what you are talking about? tiles terraforming by themselves?
18:01:45 <Yexo> however in court that fact wouldn't really help me, I'd either have to clame I distributed it as GPL (so in fact give my code away as GPL) or claim my code isn't GPL (and as such saying I'm distributing my code illegally)
18:02:56 <HalfBit> Yexo: if you are the copyright owner of the code, you can redistribute it under any terms you want.
18:03:28 <Yexo> yes, but if my code incorporates GPL code from someone else I'd be infringing his copyright if I distributed it as someone else than GPL
18:03:29 <HalfBit> The license applies to the product, i.e., after you contribute that code to a project
18:03:44 <HalfBit> in that project, the license applies, but you are free to do something else with it
18:03:52 * Rubidium thinks this copyright debate is, like always, going to nowhere (or Fred's apartment maybe)
18:04:09 <HalfBit> yes
18:04:12 <Terkhen> :P
18:04:22 *** dfox has quit IRC
18:04:48 * Yexo will stop frustrating Rubidium attempts at starting a discussion about limitting terraforming :p
18:06:19 * LordAro annoys people by mentioning that Luukland's servers have this property :p
18:06:46 <Terkhen> IMO in terraforming the most important point is limiting puntual big attempts... it should let you accumulate enough tiles to do a lot of small terraforming but if you do big things it should run out quickly
18:08:12 <Terkhen> raising cost if you terraform too frequently might make sense, but then it would require an indicator of your current level
18:08:53 <Rubidium> hmm, that'd probably require some "fractal" numbers
18:09:25 <Terkhen> hmm... what does that mean?
18:10:13 <Rubidium> you've got a low limit of tiles to terraform per timeframe
18:10:32 <Rubidium> e.g. one tile a month, for those that want to play like that
18:11:01 <Rubidium> but for general gameplay terraforming 1 tile a day might be a much better limit
18:11:19 <Rubidium> however, with the monthly interval you'd then get 30 tiles every 30 days
18:11:51 <Rubidium> with the "fractal" stuff you'd get one tile every day, even though you can get as little as one tile every month
18:12:50 <Terkhen> oh, I understand what you mean now
18:12:54 <Rubidium> with those fractal numbers you could limit the "buffer" to 10 tiles, so you can only terraform 10 tiles at a tile, with 10 days in between
18:12:55 <CIA-2> OpenTTD: michi_cc * r21712 /trunk/src/ (ground_vehicle.cpp train.h): -Change: Tune 'realistic' acceleration even more to make more trains reach their top speed.
18:13:37 <Rubidium> but, especially, with limiting terraforming you'd get two strategies:
18:13:49 <Rubidium> * allow a high average, but low amounts at a time
18:14:03 <Rubidium> * allow a low average, but allow high amounts at a time
18:14:29 <Rubidium> the former is to prevent terraforming large areas, whereas the latter is to limit terraforming of "established" companies
18:14:59 <Rubidium> though, what has to be considered is how to handle the terraforming limits when the game is paused
18:15:22 <Terkhen> IMO the first point is more pressing than the second
18:15:43 <Terkhen> isn't the command dropped when in pause now?
18:16:05 <Rubidium> depends on the build-while-paused setting
18:16:13 <Rubidium> but it also holds for single player
18:16:26 <Rubidium> as I don't think this should be a pure multiplayer limitation
18:18:39 <frosch123> hmm, in that case you can only base it on real time
18:19:14 <Rubidium> well, or "frames"
18:19:24 <frosch123> yes, the same as the command limit
18:19:35 <frosch123> but multipled by the number of tiles affected
18:19:51 <Rubidium> yep
18:20:13 <frosch123> so it also holds for terraforming, clearing land, and building road/rail/whatever
18:21:00 <Rubidium> I'm not that sure at the others though; especially as clearing land happens indirectly as well
18:21:08 <Rubidium> hmm... but then so does terraforming
18:21:22 <frosch123> yeah, maybe it needs to distinguish the commands
18:21:46 <frosch123> i guess some may want to restrict terraforming and clearing land more than building track
18:22:45 <frosch123> i.e. rectangular stuff vs. linear stuff
18:23:22 <frosch123> hmm, though that is implicitly considered when using number of affected tiles
18:23:44 <Terkhen> building long roads/tracks shouldn't be penalized IMO
18:23:51 <Terkhen> it is something more common
18:24:11 <planetmaker> ^^ agreed
18:24:36 <planetmaker> building a long straight rail way is ok. It's not a way one can destroy the landscape either
18:24:53 <planetmaker> leveling a long straight way at sea level is something entirely different
18:25:03 <frosch123> i guess "number of tiles affected" also would have to count tiles which are terraformed multiple height levels multiple times
18:25:06 <planetmaker> and not undone by a reset_company
18:25:21 <frosch123> so if you allow to lower a 16x16 tile area by two steps, it has a cost of 512
18:25:30 <frosch123> equivalent to a track of length 512
18:25:51 <frosch123> and bulldozing an area of size 32x32
18:26:02 * planetmaker doesn't like to have valid constructions count the same as terraforming
18:26:53 <planetmaker> the only really troublesome is terraforming and bulldozing
18:26:59 <frosch123> so only terraforming and non-DC_AUTO-clearing?
18:27:18 <planetmaker> what's the latter?
18:27:36 <frosch123> bulldozing with the bulldozer tool in contrast to clearing land by building on it
18:28:06 <planetmaker> ah. yes. That's what I would like on my servers. Maybe buying land also
18:28:22 <planetmaker> but then... that doesn't matter and can be skipped, too
18:28:33 <planetmaker> it's tedious anyway as it works only single-tile ;-)
18:28:35 <frosch123> there is no difference between buying land and bulding track
18:28:41 <planetmaker> yeah.
18:28:52 <frosch123> i.e. rectangular vs. linear stuff :)
18:28:55 <planetmaker> :-)
18:29:06 <frosch123> it is easier to clear a map, than to fill it with track :p
18:29:16 <planetmaker> LOTS
18:29:40 <planetmaker> and building a 64x64 station via drag&drop - I doubt it works on normal maps, if you cannot terraform
18:29:46 <planetmaker> and even if: might be valid
18:29:52 <planetmaker> :-P
18:30:01 <Rubidium> planetmaker: just limit station spread ;)
18:30:06 <planetmaker> exactly :-)
18:30:09 <DanMacK> Who in their right mind would need a 64X64 station :P
18:30:13 <planetmaker> Our stable is at about 12 or so
18:30:27 <planetmaker> DanMacK, on our PublicServer we sometimes hit the station spread limit
18:30:39 <planetmaker> Like on a central hub station which serves all 1500 trains ;-)
18:30:43 <frosch123> those guys who build 64 parallal tracks to run 16 trains on them
18:30:43 <Rubidium> DanMacK: I do ;)
18:30:50 <dihedral> DanMacK, the station spread does not mean you have a station of that size
18:30:58 <Rubidium> DanMacK: is probably quite near to that limit ;)
18:31:03 <planetmaker> but those stations are not 64x64, but for train length of 5 or so.
18:31:11 <dihedral> lol :-)
18:32:02 <DanMacK> Never used one that large... although including airports and such, I've probably hit 25-30
18:33:06 <planetmaker> also one I'd like was where we had a wood-only game, transporting it all to 6 saw mills... that was also quite huge ;-)
18:33:26 <planetmaker> like 120.000 crates of goods produced per month or so
18:33:39 <planetmaker> it needs a bit capacity to drop all that wood :-P
18:35:08 <planetmaker> sports. catch you later folks
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18:39:49 <IchGuckLive> hi all and a happy new Year to all of you
18:40:19 <__ln___> omg, zero typos
18:40:37 *** Adambean` has joined #openttd
18:40:37 <ZirconiumX> Actually one
18:40:57 <ZirconiumX> there Are no capital letters in the middle of a sentence
18:41:17 <IchGuckLive> i got a question: i served to a oilindustrie 3years maximum that 2wells give ,in the desert,now a new one is building right beside a well what shoudt i do ?
18:41:17 * Prof_Frink gives ZirconiumX a proper noun.
18:41:49 <ZirconiumX> build a route to it?
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18:42:37 *** ChanServ sets mode: +o Alberth
18:42:44 <ZirconiumX> hello
18:42:45 <IchGuckLive> ZirconiumX: Then ,it will also produce goods .And i have to carry them
18:42:49 <ZirconiumX> (Alberth)
18:42:57 <ZirconiumX> more money
18:43:08 <ZirconiumX> build a route to a goods accepting town
18:43:11 <Alberth> hai ZirconiumX
18:43:40 <ZirconiumX> the typo was deliberate
18:43:42 <dihedral> IchGuckLive, what would you LIKE to do?
18:44:21 <ZirconiumX> oh sorry
18:44:24 <IchGuckLive> dihedral: nothing.Stay with the one that runs the 4 trains with oil !
18:45:07 <IchGuckLive> this ,the bus service,will sertenly degrese the amound the trains are taking
18:45:10 <ZirconiumX> Ich Guck Live build a route connecting the new well to your old refinery and a route from the old well to the new refinery
18:45:29 <CIA-2> OpenTTD: translators * r21713 /trunk/src/lang/ (estonian.txt romanian.txt swedish.txt unfinished/marathi.txt):
18:45:29 <CIA-2> OpenTTD: -Update from WebTranslator v3.0:
18:45:29 <CIA-2> OpenTTD: estonian - 7 changes by notAbot
18:45:29 <CIA-2> OpenTTD: marathi - 2 changes by jaguarnac
18:45:29 <CIA-2> OpenTTD: romanian - 4 changes by kkmic
18:45:31 <CIA-2> OpenTTD: swedish - 1 changes by spacejens
18:46:02 <dihedral> IchGuckLive, then why do you not do that?
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18:47:37 <IchGuckLive> i only ,want to now? if i do leave the oil_industrie unserved.Does the well next to it maybe will be effected.Even if i take 84% to the second oilindustrie
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18:49:37 <ZirconiumX> IchGuckLive may>e it d pend on Ho y u s rve the w ll
18:49:43 <IchGuckLive>
18:49:51 <IchGuckLive> there is a screenshot
18:49:57 <ZirconiumX> Can you please speak in proper english
18:50:45 <IchGuckLive> i do my very best !
18:50:49 <ZirconiumX> Maybe it depends on how you serve the well
18:51:09 <dihedral> mad a bugs task out of the admin network bug
18:51:09 <dihedral> s/mad/made
18:51:27 <ZirconiumX> You evidently speak English as a secondary language
18:51:55 <Yexo> ZirconiumX: a lot of people do. No one cares
18:52:39 <IchGuckLive> im germany
18:52:46 <ZirconiumX> ah
18:52:54 * ZirconiumX goes to get translator
18:53:04 <dihedral> we care if people use a translator badly :-P
18:53:06 <dihedral> shall we open another channel for the german speaking ? :-P
18:53:12 <Rubidium> dihedral: and now you're expecting us to commit it before the nightly run?
18:53:41 <dihedral> no
18:53:50 <dihedral> just hopefully before the rc release
18:53:59 <dihedral> and thus branching
18:54:01 <__ln___> dihedral: germans-speaking-english or german-speaking channel?
18:54:15 <dihedral> german speaking channel
18:54:18 <LordAro> IckGuckLive: use "Load only" orders for your trains at Herzberg Tal (or whatever it was)
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18:54:26 <__ln___> dihedral: sounds like a good idea
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18:54:31 <IchGuckLive> i wars just asking, sorry if i feel like a NOOB
18:54:35 <dihedral> IchGuckLive, make use of the station spread and place a station tile next to the well
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18:55:24 <IchGuckLive> dihedral: busstation?
18:55:45 <ZirconiumX> also, make the train station avaliable to both the near well and the far well
18:55:58 <dihedral> any type of station, ctrl+click to build instead of just click
18:56:06 <LordAro> IchGuckLive: use "Load only" orders for your trains at Herzberg Tal (or whatever it was)
18:56:11 <dihedral> then you can select the station name of the station next to the other well
18:56:37 <ZirconiumX> What version of OpenTTD are you using
18:56:47 <IchGuckLive> 1.05RC
18:57:08 <dihedral> Rubidium, it's more meant as a "i don't want to bug you, but i also dont want it to be forgotten" ;-)
18:57:10 <ZirconiumX> upgrade to 1.0.5 but not 1.1.0beta2
18:57:30 <Terkhen> why not 1.1.0-beta2?
18:57:33 <IchGuckLive> i will make a RORO bus service with one bus ,to see what hapens
18:57:56 <ZirconiumX> the ctrl+click just makes it a seperate station
18:58:02 <ZirconiumX> in 1.1.0
18:58:04 <Rubidium> Terkhen: it has no Debian packages?
18:58:10 <Terkhen> oh :)
18:58:14 <IchGuckLive> im on Ubuntu 10.04 desktop 32bit .I must wait for better packeging
18:58:21 <ZirconiumX> instead of choose station to join
18:58:22 <dihedral> :-P
18:58:40 <dihedral> IchGuckLive, unzip ;-)
18:59:14 <Terkhen> ZirconiumX: it works for me
18:59:17 <IchGuckLive> Why shoudt i upgrade is there ,things like that not Happening ß
18:59:29 <dihedral> we don't know why
19:00:44 <IchGuckLive> ok thanks for Your Help around and Have a Nice day !
19:00:56 <ZirconiumX> No problem
19:01:37 *** IchGuckLive has quit IRC
19:02:07 <ZirconiumX> ...and that was that
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19:03:16 <andythenorth> evenings
19:03:21 <ZirconiumX> hello andythenorth
19:03:41 <Terkhen> hi andythenorth
19:03:45 <Alberth> hello andy
19:04:11 <andythenorth> what should I do tonight? work on my crossings patch, or start a new web app business?
19:04:21 <ZirconiumX> latter
19:04:39 <Alberth> can you still make money writing web apps?
19:04:45 <andythenorth> dunno yet
19:04:48 <ZirconiumX> earns enough money to forget about the former
19:04:51 <andythenorth> don't see why not
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19:05:19 <andythenorth> Alberth: we should have done minecraft between us :P
19:05:39 <andythenorth> this has got to be one of the best ad-hoc games development teams around :P
19:05:47 <Alberth> I am still considering RCT clone :p
19:05:56 <andythenorth> "best" as long as you want a remake of an existing game about trains
19:06:19 <andythenorth> maybe we should do a fb game
19:06:25 <Alberth> fb?
19:06:25 <Terkhen> fb?
19:06:31 <andythenorth> facebook
19:06:38 <Terkhen> trainville!
19:06:41 <andythenorth> heh
19:06:52 <andythenorth> maybe next year
19:06:55 <andythenorth> anyway
19:06:56 <Alberth> oh simcity game wit transport :p
19:07:08 <andythenorth> I have a crossings patch which is stuck...
19:07:17 <andythenorth> and I think it could be unstuck simpl
19:07:18 <andythenorth> y
19:07:35 <Alberth> need a big sledge hammer?
19:08:23 <andythenorth> probably not
19:08:56 <Terkhen> fire?
19:08:56 * Alberth finds 16 new changesets in trunk
19:09:13 <andythenorth>
19:09:16 <andythenorth> l63-67
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19:09:27 <andythenorth> I need a way to find out what type of rail I should be drawing
19:09:51 <andythenorth> rail / monorail / maglev
19:10:22 <andythenorth> currently I just hard code SPR_RAIL_CROSSING_OVERLAY which gives me rail
19:10:25 <andythenorth> that's no good :)
19:10:33 <dihedral> heh - a TODO marker? :-P
19:10:37 <andythenorth> heh
19:10:59 <Terkhen> how it is handled on existing crossing code?
19:11:18 <andythenorth> SpriteID image = rti->base_sprites.crossing;
19:11:19 <andythenorth>
19:11:19 <andythenorth> if (GetCrossingRoadAxis(ti->tile) == AXIS_X) image++;
19:11:25 <andythenorth> (there's no overlay)
19:11:39 <andythenorth> I can see two routes
19:11:50 <andythenorth> one is get some bits / int for the rail type
19:12:11 <HalfBit> Are monorail/maglev crossings realistic?
19:12:20 <andythenorth> I have 6 overlay sprites, conveniently arranged, so if monorail = 2 and maglev = 3, I could do sprites * Rail type
19:12:34 <andythenorth> but better would be to extend the base_sprites thing so this was available everywhere
19:12:54 <andythenorth> I am baffled by base_sprites definitions in rail.h
19:12:59 <andythenorth> they're just a list! :o
19:13:09 <Terkhen> HalfBit: no
19:13:11 <HalfBit> I mean, do they exist in reality? I can imagine monorails and maglevs crossing roads
19:13:15 <andythenorth> how do they refer to the actual sprites? I expected some kind of dict structure
19:14:05 <HalfBit> This is something that bothers me in my games... I would take them out completely and improve the town AI to make bridges over the rails
19:14:22 <Terkhen> you can do both :P
19:14:39 <Terkhen> andythenorth: which file? it's not a part of the code I know much
19:14:55 <andythenorth> Terkhen: I'm working in road_cmd.cpp
19:15:08 <andythenorth> but you might also want to visit rail.h and table/sprites.h
19:15:51 <andythenorth> also you should know the overlays I'm using don't exist in trunk :)
19:15:59 <andythenorth> you need my patch that adds them to the base set
19:16:30 <Terkhen> but the existing code for road crossing must decide this in some way
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19:17:03 <andythenorth> Terkhen: it gets base_sprites.crossing, which has some magic to return the correct tile for track type and terrain
19:17:10 <andythenorth> probably using the tile bits I guess
19:17:17 <andythenorth> I can't understand the magic though :P
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19:25:04 <Terkhen> andythenorth: sorry, I'll be right back :)
19:25:11 <andythenorth> np
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19:32:16 <JVassie> are there any replacement depot sets which support nutracks?
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19:34:02 <ZirconiumX> noob! They should all do because they don't alter the track sprites that they're on /noob!
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19:34:59 <JVassie> its got nothing to do with the track sprites
19:35:39 <JVassie> merely the depot graphics included with NuTracks dont take up a full tile, so you cant use them realistically
19:35:59 <ZirconiumX> have you tried ammecher's depots?
19:36:10 <ZirconiumX> *ammecher's
19:36:19 <JVassie> *Ameecher
19:37:22 <JVassie> well my normal depot set (Nivlhei's) the depots display for very lwo speed
19:37:27 <JVassie> but not for low, medium, high, etc
19:37:29 <JVassie> *low
19:39:38 <ZirconiumX> I don't know then
19:42:48 <LordAro> this:
19:44:17 <JVassie> and it works with NuTracks LordAro ?
19:44:21 <ZirconiumX> -Modify the Bigger Depots GRF to be compatible with NuTracks and the UK Railway Track Set, and update the BaNaNaS distribution
19:44:24 <ZirconiumX> no
19:44:36 <JVassie> To Do:
19:44:36 <JVassie> -Modify the Bigger Depots GRF to be compatible with NuTracks and the UK Railway Track Set, and update the BaNaNaS distribution
19:44:38 <JVassie> lol
19:45:03 <LordAro> i've got no idea, try it out ;p
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19:50:53 <supermop> who wants nutracks depots?
19:51:04 <supermop> i spent all last night drawing depots...
19:51:21 <ZirconiumX> I'd like it
19:51:30 <ZirconiumX> give us a piccy
19:51:59 <JVassie> are they full tile ones supermop ?
19:53:29 <supermop> yep
19:53:44 <supermop> they are made to match my mlss sheds
19:53:47 * ZirconiumX gets interested
19:53:55 <supermop> but they should work fine on their own
19:54:28 <supermop> i am making several variations
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19:55:47 <supermop> old, old elec, middle, middle elec, middle 3rd, modern, modern elec, modern high speed, modern monorail, modern maglev
19:55:53 <supermop> slightly different
19:56:05 <supermop> so that one can tell depot type by sight
19:56:30 <supermop> i am going to my apartment at lunch, so i can post some wip ics then
19:56:31 <ZirconiumX> for the electric ones why don't you draw a generator
19:56:38 <supermop> generator?
19:56:54 <supermop> its a depot, not a power plant....
19:57:14 <supermop> there might be some 3-phace ac transformers on the roof
19:57:18 <supermop> phase
19:57:32 <ZirconiumX> don't you need power to get the trains moving?
19:58:01 <supermop> but nothing as big as the huge insulators on top of the ogfx tram depot
19:58:03 <supermop> well
19:58:37 <supermop> depot != feeder station != power plant
19:59:16 <supermop> after all, it would be dangerous for the mechanics to work on the locomotive with 10,000 Volts flowing through it
19:59:30 <ZirconiumX> they have isolators
19:59:41 <ZirconiumX> so you could draw those instead
19:59:49 <supermop> well
20:01:05 <ZirconiumX> GTG
20:01:07 <supermop> if you can wait about an hour, I can show you
20:01:28 *** ZirconiumX has quit IRC
20:01:43 <supermop> oh well,
20:01:47 <supermop> maybe not
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20:24:41 * andythenorth adventures in C++
20:24:45 <andythenorth> what is an enum anyway :P
20:24:48 * andythenorth google
20:26:03 <Eddi|zuHause> basically a list of constants, that get "enumerated" [i.e. assigned consecutive numbers]
20:26:06 <dihedral> perhaps the full word helps explain: enumeration ;-)
20:27:01 <andythenorth> fortunately google knew, and now so do I :D
20:27:07 <andythenorth> next: struct :P
20:27:11 <Hirundo> structure
20:27:43 * andythenorth will really enjoy his next python project
20:28:15 <Alberth> struct: bunch of self.x fields :p
20:30:51 <andythenorth> so base_sprites is declaring an object with a certain structure?
20:30:56 <andythenorth> rail.h
20:31:02 <andythenorth> l120
20:31:53 <Yexo> it's not declaring an object yet, only the structure
20:32:10 <Yexo> oh, it's also declaring an object there, which is part of RailtypeInfo
20:32:37 <andythenorth> trying to figure out if that's what I should extend to make track overlay sprites availabl
20:32:38 <andythenorth> e
20:33:34 <Yexo> probably yes, you there is already a member "crossing"
20:34:07 <CIA-2> OpenTTD: rubidium * r21714 /trunk/src/landscape.cpp: -Codechange: unduplicate a bit of code path
20:34:24 <andythenorth> so I can create a member....but how do I give that some value
20:34:46 <Yexo> table/railtypes.h
20:35:45 <andythenorth> ho
20:35:47 <andythenorth> awesome
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20:38:50 <andythenorth> I'm using mq - is there a way to switch patches?
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20:39:50 <Jonas29> hello i would like help to have music on the game
20:39:55 <andythenorth> e.g. I am currently working on foo.patch
20:40:07 <andythenorth> I need to create bar.patch, then go back to working on foo.patch
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20:41:24 <Yexo> hg qnew bar.path ; do your edits, hg qrefresh; hg qpop; you're editing foo.patch again
20:41:44 <andythenorth> and then I can go back to bar.patch?
20:41:50 <Yexo> hg qpush
20:41:50 <andythenorth> hg qpush does that?
20:41:55 <andythenorth> win thanks
20:42:12 <Yexo> note that it only works correctly if foo.patch is based on bar.patch
20:42:23 <andythenorth> I'll learn by doing
20:42:29 <Hyronymus> evening guys
20:42:31 <andythenorth> there's always copy and paste if it goes wrong :o
20:42:50 * Hyronymus has a fix for this text:
20:43:12 <Hyronymus> or perhaps an addition
20:43:56 <Yexo> well? don't leave us hanging like that :p
20:44:01 <Hyronymus> oh
20:44:30 <Hyronymus> please advise Windows users to install the 32 bit version of python even if you have a 64 bit system
20:44:55 <Hyronymus> pil and ply work happily now I have python 32 installed
20:45:02 <Hyronymus> on windows 7
20:46:33 <Yexo> done :)
20:46:38 <Hyronymus> thx
20:47:26 <Hyronymus> is it ver the plan to turn that piece of documentation into a wiki?
20:47:29 <Hyronymus> *ever
20:47:58 <Yexo> maybe at some point. For now having it in the repository means it's directly linked to the code
20:48:15 <Hyronymus> ah, I see
20:48:19 <Yexo> which means it's hopefully less out of date than a wiki would become
20:48:27 <Hyronymus> I made a test grf with nml
20:48:49 <Hyronymus> not working yet but I think that's because I forgotten some basic properties in my grf
20:48:57 <Hyronymus> a least it compiles :)
20:49:08 <Yexo> if you pastebin it I'll take a look if you want
20:49:31 <Hyronymus> oh right
20:49:34 <Hyronymus> pastebin
20:49:57 <Yexo> or in general upload it somehwere
20:50:42 <Hyronymus>
20:50:51 <Hyronymus> pastebin kicks ass
20:51:50 <Yexo> introduction date of 1850 ?
20:52:04 <Hyronymus> trying
20:52:14 <Hyronymus> I have my game generator at 1850 :P
20:52:21 <Yexo> ah, ok :)
20:52:26 <Yexo> just thought it might've been a typo
20:52:34 <Hyronymus> no, I was lazy
20:53:32 <Hyronymus> I borrowed the foster graphics from your rv example Yexo
20:53:47 <Hyronymus> but there was nothing like a bus in my train depot
20:53:52 <Yexo> which in turn are borrowed from opengfx, I think
20:53:53 <Hyronymus> nor was there electric tracls
20:54:14 <CIA-2> OpenTTD: terkhen * r21715 /trunk/src/ (settings.cpp smallmap_gui.cpp smallmap_gui.h): -Fix: Use the correct land colour in the owner legend.
20:55:00 <CIA-2> OpenTTD: terkhen * r21716 /trunk/src/ (lang/english.txt smallmap_gui.cpp): -Add: Tooltip for the industry legend at the smallmap.
20:55:39 *** ClarkL has joined #openttd
20:55:47 <ClarkL> hello all
20:56:12 <CIA-2> OpenTTD: terkhen * r21717 /trunk/src/smallmap_gui.cpp: -Codechange: Unify smallmap functions for getting the legend height.
20:56:32 <ClarkL> Can anyone help with a newbie to patching in Windows?
20:57:14 <Yexo> ClarkL: have you compiled openttd without any patches already?
20:57:17 <Yexo> if not, start with that
20:57:23 <CIA-2> OpenTTD: terkhen * r21718 /trunk/src/ (4 files in 3 dirs): -Feature: Show a list of companies in the owner legend.
20:57:35 <dihedral> there is documentation at
20:57:43 <ClarkL> Yexo: Not yet, I just get the stable release
20:58:01 <Terkhen> isn't that OpenTTD?
20:58:21 <CIA-2> OpenTTD: terkhen * r21719 /trunk/src/smallmap_gui.cpp: -Doc: Correct a doxygen comment.
20:58:54 <CIA-2> OpenTTD: terkhen * r21720 /trunk/src/ (lang/english.txt smallmap_gui.cpp): -Feature: Allow to toggle visualization of company property in the owner view of the smallmap.
20:59:53 <CIA-2> OpenTTD: terkhen * r21721 /trunk/src/ (lang/english.txt smallmap_gui.cpp): -Codechange: Rename the smallmap button panel and its strings.
21:00:01 <ClarkL> I was hoping that Chill's Patchpack might be easy to start with but its gone right over my head
21:00:16 <Terkhen> ClarkL: start by compiling trunk without patches and making sure that it works
21:00:51 <Yexo> or if you just want to play with a patchpack download precompiled binaries
21:00:58 <Yexo> I'm sure they're available for chills patchpack for windows
21:01:00 <CIA-2> OpenTTD: terkhen * r21722 /trunk/src/lang/ (45 files): -Update: String names on other translations.
21:01:41 <CIA-2> OpenTTD: terkhen * r21723 /trunk/src/ (lang/english.txt smallmap_gui.cpp): -Add: Enable/Disable all buttons to the owner view of the smallmap.
21:02:28 <CIA-2> OpenTTD: terkhen * r21724 /trunk/src/smallmap_gui.cpp: -Change: Do not reset the "Show height" state after closing the smallmap window.
21:03:08 <fonsinchen> changes to smallmap ... sounds like fun
21:03:14 <CIA-2> OpenTTD: terkhen * r21725 /trunk/src/smallmap_gui.cpp: -Cleanup: Remove unused owner code.
21:03:17 <andythenorth> Terkhen was busy :o
21:03:43 <ClarkL> i did download the win32 rar on Chills patchpack but I'm guessing I need to do something once I'm in it?
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21:04:10 <CIA-2> OpenTTD: terkhen * r21726 /trunk/src/smallmap_gui.cpp: -Add: Allow to toggle height visualization in the owner view of the smallmap.
21:04:23 <Yexo> not really, just double-click openttd.exe
21:04:30 <ClarkL> oh
21:04:48 <Terkhen> <--- the result :)
21:05:40 <fonsinchen> OK, nice. You're done now? Or are there more changes coming?
21:05:56 <Eddi|zuHause> hmmzz... this civ5 savegame reproduceably crashes on next turn :(
21:06:11 <Hyronymus> sexy patch, Terkhen
21:06:16 <Rubidium> Eddi|zuHause: maybe it's nightly works better?
21:06:16 <Terkhen> fonsinchen: I'm done
21:06:35 <Terkhen> Hyronymus: thanks :)
21:06:47 <Eddi|zuHause> Rubidium: the savegame is from tonight :p
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21:06:56 <ClarkL> brb, will start from scratch
21:06:57 <dihedral> Terkhen, are you on drugs?
21:07:10 <dihedral> or do you get a high out of committing? :-P
21:07:23 <andythenorth> I commit therefore I am
21:07:39 <dihedral> cogito ergo sum
21:07:54 <Terkhen> :P
21:08:21 <Rubidium> procrastinate ergo sum? :)
21:08:27 * Terkhen likes that one too
21:08:43 <andythenorth> is this bad style? (l8)
21:08:44 <andythenorth>
21:08:56 <Rubidium> "veni vidi fumi" (also bad Latin)
21:09:30 <Terkhen> andythenorth: each entry should have its own line
21:10:08 <andythenorth> hmm
21:10:14 <andythenorth> well that's not my doing ;)
21:10:35 <andythenorth> specifically I haven't bothered defining a MONO version of SPR_RAIL_CROSSING_OVERLAY
21:11:11 <Alberth> /** Monorail */ <-- doxygen comment does not work for data/code
21:11:51 <andythenorth> hg qpush
21:12:00 <Terkhen> hg qpop
21:12:03 <Hyronymus> Yexo: do I need to add a track table t my code
21:12:11 <Yexo> not necesary
21:12:13 * Rubidium thinks it isn't wise to mask important information in a query in something that looks like a smiley
21:12:24 <andythenorth> :(
21:12:29 <Hyronymus> didn't think so either
21:12:29 <andythenorth> I have lost my patch
21:12:39 <Hyronymus> but I fail to see why I see no train
21:12:48 <Rubidium> as now people are really talking about stuff that you didn't really ask for, or haven't even written ;)
21:12:56 <Yexo> I'm still debugging the problem, I can't see why not either
21:12:58 <Hyronymus> maybe it's the randomification of intro dates
21:13:00 <Terkhen> andythenorth: try hg qseries, it should display all patches in a queue
21:13:05 * Hyronymus tries 1830
21:13:27 <Yexo> it's not the date
21:13:43 <andythenorth> oh
21:13:47 <andythenorth> that's sad
21:13:47 <andythenorth> my work is gone :(
21:13:55 <Terkhen> how? :S
21:14:52 <Hyronymus> no, not the date
21:15:03 <andythenorth> maybe I didn't qrefresh before I did qnew
21:15:19 <andythenorth> anyway, I no longer have the code to draw tram tracks over road
21:15:40 <Terkhen> andythenorth: when you do qnew all modifications are put into the new patch
21:15:54 <andythenorth> hmm
21:15:59 <andythenorth> well they're not there :(
21:16:07 <andythenorth> nor if I qpop / qpush through the q
21:16:11 <fonsinchen> Terkhen, there's a bug in the code you just committed: You cannot enable or disable the last entry in the first row in the legend for owners.
21:16:15 <Terkhen> hg qdiff in the new patch don't show your changes?
21:16:22 <Terkhen> fonsinchen: thanks, I'm going to look at it
21:16:46 <andythenorth> ach
21:17:04 <andythenorth> I'm using two repos - one to hack at stuff, and the other to apply it as clean patches in a queeu
21:17:07 <andythenorth> queue /s
21:17:12 <andythenorth> wrong file :P
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21:18:30 <fonsinchen> ehh, s/first row/first column/
21:18:31 <fonsinchen> sorry
21:18:40 <dihedral> you're welcome
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21:19:44 <andythenorth> hmm
21:20:15 <Terkhen> fonsinchen: how many companies do you have? with max companies I can enable/disable each of them
21:20:49 <andythenorth> using a queue is simple....but not :|
21:22:37 <fonsinchen> 3
21:22:54 <Yexo> Hyronymus: you can fix it by removing the lines refittable_cargo_classes, non_refittable_cargo_classes and refittable_cargo_types
21:23:02 <fonsinchen> just enough to fill up the first column and not overflow to the second one
21:23:16 <Hyronymus> ok
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21:23:48 <Hyronymus> are those redundant once you set capacity to 0?
21:24:22 <Timmaexx> Hey Guys
21:25:01 <Yexo> setting any of these make openttd think the vehicle should be able to refit. It sees there are no cargos it can refit to and therefore disables the engine
21:25:04 <fonsinchen> hmm, interesting. Sometimes 3 companies make the list overflow to the second column and sometimes not.
21:25:11 <Hyronymus> ok
21:25:20 <Hyronymus> but it does appear as a monorail
21:25:36 <Hyronymus> not quite sure how it thought about doing tha
21:25:40 <Hyronymus> track type is ELRL
21:25:43 <Yexo> frosch123: Is it intended that a rail engine that can be refitted is completely disabled when there is no valid cargo it can refit to?
21:26:07 <Terkhen> fonsinchen: I still can't reproduce it... can you send me your savegame? (although it should not be savegame dependent)
21:26:14 <Yexo> Hyronymus: from nml docs: Default railtype table: RAIL, ELRL, MONO, MGLV. Note that ELRL is mapped to MONO.
21:26:44 <Terkhen> the amount of max legend entries for each column can vary depending on the number of industries and the current width of the window
21:26:47 <fonsinchen> I can. I think I found out what makes the list not overflow and thus trigger the bug: You have to play in tropic
21:26:56 <Yexo> hmm, you did set engine_class correctly, so again not sure why it doesn't work
21:27:01 <fonsinchen> Where shall I send it?
21:27:16 <Terkhen> hmm... right
21:27:19 <Terkhen> I can reproduce it in tropic
21:27:43 <ClarkL> hmmm. I'm stuck with all this patching, think I'm going to start to compile myself as the patch-pack seems to work for something but not others
21:27:56 <Hyronymus> what does it mean: ELRL is mapped to MONO
21:27:59 <Timmaexx> Is it a bug, that in eGRVTS a 6HorseCarriage has 0HP with realistic acceleration:on; or do I have to call the author?
21:28:16 <Yexo> that "ELRL" means exactly the same as "MONO"
21:28:18 <Hyronymus> it's annoying but not a bug I think
21:28:18 <frosch123> Yexo: yes, that is the intentional behaviour
21:28:21 <Yexo> there are only 3 valid options
21:28:26 <Terkhen> fonsinchen: I'm going to look through this, thank you for the report
21:28:26 <andythenorth> Timmaexx: zephyris knows about ti
21:28:33 <Hyronymus> ok
21:28:33 <frosch123> what else should happen btw?
21:28:42 <Yexo> make it available without any capacity?
21:28:45 <Hyronymus> so if I try RAIL...
21:28:55 <Terkhen> although I have no clue of what might be causing it :/
21:28:57 <Timmaexx> Thank you andythenorh!
21:29:38 <andythenorth> hmm
21:29:38 <frosch123> that only makes sense for engines
21:29:42 <andythenorth> can I swear?
21:30:14 <frosch123> anyway, you still need a default cargo for the livery and such
21:30:16 <Yexo> frosch123: yes, I was specially talking about engines that can also carry some cargo
21:30:23 <Yexo> ah, so that's why it doesn't work
21:30:23 <Hyronymus> Yexo: choosing rail does the job
21:30:27 <Yexo> ok :)
21:30:31 <Yexo> so a minor mistake in the documentation
21:30:37 <Hyronymus> it is available in an electric train depot
21:30:55 * Hyronymus proposes to drop tracktype ELRL
21:31:00 <Hyronymus> it only confuses
21:31:38 <Yexo> agreed :)
21:31:42 <Yexo> I was already doing that in the docs
21:31:46 <Hyronymus> lol
21:32:09 <Hyronymus> blimey, I'm grf-editing again
21:32:43 <Hyronymus> who can I blame if it eats away my life again?
21:33:05 <Belugas> me! blame me!!
21:33:05 <Rubidium> Hyronymus: I'd say patchman
21:33:26 <Hyronymus> I already blamed him for so many stuff :P
21:33:38 <andythenorth>
21:33:46 <andythenorth> ^ I'm happy with the tram crossing
21:33:47 <Yexo> <- Hyronymus is the new documentation for track_type clear enough?
21:33:54 <andythenorth> the pbs reservation has maglev issues :(
21:34:07 <andythenorth> and the monorail needs an offset fix :)
21:34:47 <Hyronymus> Yexo: fine exept for the last bit of the old sentence 'to setting track_type to ELRL. ' ;)
21:35:06 <Hyronymus> looks good andythenorth
21:35:32 <Yexo> oops, fixed
21:36:00 <Hyronymus> my English writing skills need a cleanup
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21:37:39 <Hyronymus> have to keep in mind that rebooting firefox also affects chatzilla
21:37:46 <andythenorth> I can special case for maglev
21:37:48 <andythenorth> I guess
21:38:03 <andythenorth> anybody care to comment on acceptability of this improvement?
21:38:31 <andythenorth> not that I'm finished yet :P
21:38:40 <Yexo> frosch123: from it doesn't become clear that setting a refitmask or (non-)refittable cargoclasses makes a rail engine unavailable, even if it has a capacity of 0
21:38:49 <supermop> hi
21:38:57 <supermop> any canadians online?
21:39:05 <andythenorth> probably some somewhere
21:39:07 <andythenorth> in canada
21:39:10 <andythenorth> sorry :P
21:39:13 <andythenorth> DanMacK is here
21:39:28 <supermop> well,
21:39:45 <Yexo> oh, hmm, it does
21:39:54 <Yexo> it's just not immediatly clear
21:40:03 <supermop> a canadian customer was specifying something for a 'rogers' box
21:40:22 <supermop> is that a canadian term for cable tv box?
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21:43:33 <planetmaker> good evening
21:43:40 <Hyronymus> hi planetmaker
21:45:14 <andythenorth> this one is better:
21:45:27 <andythenorth> none of the tram crossings show road :)
21:45:45 <DanMacK> Rogers is a Cnadian cable provider
21:45:54 <Terkhen> oh... it was a stupid omission
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21:45:59 *** ChanServ sets mode: +o Belugas
21:46:11 <DanMacK> So boxes don
21:46:30 <DanMacK> 't have models... at least to customers, just names
21:46:40 <Terkhen> andythenorth: looks nice, but the monorail sprites need better offsets
21:46:44 <andythenorth> yup
21:46:56 <andythenorth> is this PBS reservation on maglev acceptable?
21:47:01 <Belugas> Videotron is a cdn cable provider too
21:47:28 <DanMacK> They are, as is Shaw... and a few others :P
21:47:37 * Belugas nods
21:47:44 * DanMacK has Bell
21:47:45 <frosch123> Yexo: the plan is to add some description to the tiki in addition to the image, but i could not be bothered yet :)
21:47:46 <Belugas> all as expensive!
21:47:53 <DanMacK> tell me about it :/
21:47:54 <frosch123> there are quite some corner cases there
21:48:02 <frosch123> esp. with vehicle with zero capacity
21:48:06 <Belugas> total rip off :(
21:48:49 <Belugas> i've got videotron for cable, bell for phone, fido for cell and an independant for internet accesss
21:48:52 <DanMacK> So Andy, are crossings disallowed on Oaglev?
21:48:54 <Eddi|zuHause> andythenorth: imho the whole concept of using shaded rail sprites as mark is a hack. should rather use coloured lines. in such case, a variety of coloured lines could be used to do various marks on the rails
21:48:57 <DanMacK> lol
21:49:02 <Belugas> vven if all combined, still cost an arm and leg
21:49:02 <DanMacK> *Maglev
21:50:29 <andythenorth> Eddi|zuHause: nice way to significantly increase the scope of my patch :P
21:50:30 <planetmaker> andythenorth: the level crossings don't look bad, but the monorail looks strange. Is that the normal TTD monorail?
21:50:35 <andythenorth> yes
21:50:55 <supermop> hm
21:50:58 <planetmaker> looks somewhat distorted
21:51:08 <planetmaker> but not your fault then ;-)
21:51:09 <supermop> i can't wait for my block to get Fios
21:51:12 <Hyronymus> I'm off for tonight
21:51:14 <Hyronymus> bye
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21:51:27 <supermop> hey andy,
21:51:35 <Terkhen> a monorail crossing is bound to look strange
21:51:41 <andythenorth> so the PBS issue
21:51:48 <supermop> wouldn't the trams fall into that maglev channel?
21:51:58 <andythenorth> I can introduce 6 further sprites to the base set to deal with this
21:52:15 <andythenorth> or I can try and special case for maglev with some hard-coded if statements
21:52:22 <andythenorth> I don't like the extra sprites route
21:52:29 <andythenorth> or I could just ship this :)
21:52:30 <supermop> didn't tto disable level crossings for monorail?
21:54:39 <Eddi|zuHause> yes, and TTD allowed it
21:54:45 <dihedral> what difference would that make?
21:55:30 <planetmaker> well. It's allowed. If you don't like it, make a monorail railtype newgrf and disallow it ;-)
21:55:38 <Terkhen> disabling them would be annoying IMO
21:55:43 <supermop> yeah, but i mean,
21:55:50 <supermop> no need to over thing the graphics
21:56:16 <planetmaker> if we disable that, you tell all the users why ;-)
21:56:24 <supermop> we have to suspend disbelief for the crossings anyway
21:56:46 <supermop> so i think it is ok if the tram tracks run into the monorail beam
21:58:18 <andythenorth> opinions on the PBS?
22:00:11 <planetmaker> I wonder why the maglev is a darker shade overall.
22:00:29 <planetmaker> but I didn't read the whole discussion, so I might have missed the obvious answers
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22:01:02 <andythenorth> so the maglev 'track' isn't drawn like the other two
22:01:07 <Eddi|zuHause> planetmaker: monorail already has "visible" PBS reservation
22:01:26 <planetmaker> so does somewhat maglev
22:01:38 <planetmaker> and in the screenshot I only saw it for the level crossing...
22:01:39 <andythenorth> the actual rail piece sprites for maglev are just the magnets in the centre
22:01:44 <planetmaker> the changed one
22:01:50 <andythenorth> only the magnets go dark for PBS on maglev
22:01:55 <planetmaker> yes
22:01:58 <andythenorth> but I need a base piece to overlay on the crossing
22:02:04 <planetmaker> yes
22:02:05 <Eddi|zuHause> planetmaker: the rest of the track has the normal PBS reservation
22:02:12 <planetmaker> I know
22:02:24 <andythenorth> I could special case for maglev, but I'd need a bit of help
22:02:28 <andythenorth> I don't like special case :P
22:02:39 <Eddi|zuHause> andythenorth: somehow the monorail crossing has an alignment problem
22:02:45 <andythenorth> I can fix that
22:02:53 <Eddi|zuHause> it's 1 pixel too high
22:02:55 <andythenorth> yup
22:02:56 <Eddi|zuHause> or so
22:02:59 <planetmaker> do you have tha patch somewhere, andythenorth ?
22:03:17 <andythenorth> I can make a patch
22:03:59 <andythenorth> the other issue with this patch is - openttd.grf doesn't compile
22:04:08 <andythenorth> currently I have to use a manually compiled version
22:04:20 <andythenorth> and we tried to fix renum, but it didn't work
22:06:11 <planetmaker> who's "we"?
22:06:36 <andythenorth> yexo
22:06:44 <planetmaker> :-O
22:07:43 <andythenorth> how do I print all the patches in the queue to a file?
22:08:00 <Yexo> hg qseries > file.txt
22:08:26 <andythenorth> hmm
22:08:28 <Yexo> or do you want one big diff with all changes of your queue?
22:08:32 <andythenorth> one big diff
22:08:54 <Yexo> hg diff -r $(hg parents -r qbase --template '{rev}') -r qtip > big.diff
22:10:02 <Yexo> hmm, probably "hg diff -r qparent -r qtip > big.diff" will work as well
22:10:41 <planetmaker> hg diff -r qparent:qtip > big.diff should also work
22:10:54 <planetmaker> when all patches are applied that is
22:12:46 <andythenorth> planetmaker:
22:13:55 <planetmaker> thanks you
22:15:59 <planetmaker> he, in general you should watch out for the proper white space: indentation with tabs
22:16:08 <planetmaker> and don't change it where not needed ;-)
22:17:08 <planetmaker> the actual code change is only 1/3 of the code changes in the diff ;-)
22:18:06 <andythenorth> ach
22:18:10 <andythenorth> I should teach my editor
22:18:23 <andythenorth> hmm
22:18:29 <andythenorth> my editor already knows :o
22:18:45 <planetmaker> you remove a lot of indentations
22:18:57 <planetmaker> for structs and arrays. road bits etc.
22:19:05 <andythenorth> gah
22:19:30 <andythenorth> I screwed up my queue, and had to copy paste between patches
22:19:44 <andythenorth> and that seems to be the source of a lot of pointless changes in the diff
22:19:57 <andythenorth> I guess xcode reformats on paste
22:20:13 <andythenorth> nearly all of those changes are unintentional
22:24:29 <planetmaker> andythenorth: how many new sprites are that?
22:24:33 <planetmaker> all in all for the action5?
22:24:38 <andythenorth> 6
22:25:07 <planetmaker> let's see...
22:30:54 <CIA-2> OpenTTD: rubidium * r21727 /trunk/src/network/network_server.cpp: -Fix [FS#4377]: admin bots weren't always notified of password changes (dihedral)
22:31:11 <dihedral> thank you
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22:32:08 <planetmaker> I'll play around with the action5, andythenorth
22:32:14 <andythenorth> thanks
22:32:18 <planetmaker> I think I'm getting somewhere
22:32:20 <andythenorth> I thought it looked....wrong
22:32:29 <andythenorth> although it seems to work :)
22:32:41 <planetmaker> first the nforenum issue to be fixed :-)
22:33:06 <planetmaker> did you - after patching nforenum - delete your ~/.nforenum directory?
22:33:09 <planetmaker> mind the "."
22:33:12 <andythenorth> nope
22:33:21 <planetmaker> it might help ;-)
22:33:44 <planetmaker> at least the error message changed for me then
22:34:24 <andythenorth> is there a way to just build the grf / extras?
22:35:03 <Rubidium> rm bin/data/openttd.grf && make should do just that
22:35:34 <planetmaker> just change only that ;-)
22:35:40 <planetmaker> openttd only rebuilds what is needed
22:36:06 <Rubidium> rm -f bin/data/openttd.grf objs/extra_grf/openttd.grf && make <- more reliable
22:36:20 <andythenorth> deleting ~/.nforenum made no difference for me
22:36:29 <andythenorth> linter failure, grfcodec and nforenum not found
22:36:42 <planetmaker> not found is your error, not openttd's
22:36:47 <planetmaker> nor make's
22:36:55 <planetmaker> the linter failure is genuine
22:38:00 <planetmaker> it should fail similar to (well, that's with my patched nforenum, but yeah)
22:38:35 <planetmaker> sorry. I retract my last claim.
22:38:47 <planetmaker> bogus error message
22:43:07 <planetmaker> meh... my patch does not patch the png file. Anyone knows out of the hat how I convince it to patch the png file, too?
22:44:34 <Eddi|zuHause> patch only works with text files
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22:45:32 <planetmaker> so what do I do with a git diff which has the diff of a png as well? patch just ignores that part...
22:45:47 <andythenorth> planetmaker: you could cheat, and download the png from the forum thread...
22:45:56 <planetmaker> andythenorth: can you give me the patched png? Oh... ok :-)
22:46:35 <planetmaker> thanks :-)
22:47:13 <planetmaker> ha. works :-)
22:47:30 <planetmaker> one-line nforenum patch ;-)
22:47:34 <andythenorth> nice
22:48:08 <planetmaker> <-- there
22:48:23 <planetmaker> delete you ~/.nforenum dir afterwards. The date might need re-writing
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22:48:59 <planetmaker> *your
22:50:21 <CIA-2> OpenTTD: rubidium * r21728 /trunk/src/ (12 files in 4 dirs): -Fix/Feature [FS#4331]: (configurably) limit amount of tiles that can be cleared/terraformed by a company
22:50:33 <andythenorth> this should work yes? curl | patch -p1
22:51:02 <planetmaker> if that's the raw patch, I guess
22:51:10 <planetmaker> I always save patches locally for continued use
22:52:26 <dihedral> that looks interesting
22:55:20 <Rubidium> dihedral: document it ;)
22:56:03 <dihedral> i am just reading it to understand what exactly it does and how it works ;-)
22:57:03 <andythenorth> planetmaker: I can't get the patch to apply
22:57:12 <andythenorth> pdq2s-macbook-3:grfcodec andy$ patch -p1 < 41.diff
22:57:12 <andythenorth> patching file src/data.cpp
22:57:12 <andythenorth> patch unexpectedly ends in middle of line
22:57:13 <andythenorth> Hunk #1 succeeded at 184 with fuzz 1.
22:57:18 <CIA-2> OpenTTD: terkhen * r21729 /trunk/src/smallmap_gui.cpp: -Fix (r21718, r21720): In some cases clicking on a industry/company legend entry would not work.
22:57:35 <andythenorth> I'll just manually edit
22:57:43 <andythenorth> tomorrow :)
22:57:57 <Terkhen> good night andythenorth :)
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22:58:19 <planetmaker> good night then andythenorth :-)
22:58:56 <dihedral> Rubidium, where do you want to have that documentation to be found? ;-)
22:58:58 <andythenorth> good night
22:59:04 <Eddi|zuHause> anybody know where i can get a "driver disk" from, in order to install XP on an SATA disk?
22:59:20 <Rubidium> dihedral: the wiki ofcourse ;)
22:59:54 <CIA-2> OpenTTD: terkhen * r21730 /trunk/src/misc.cpp: -Fix (r21718): The smallmap owner legend would not be properly initialized in games without companies.
23:00:06 <Rubidium> Eddi|zuHause: any clue what kind of sata chipset the motherboard has?
23:00:09 <dihedral> how about an admin packet that allows tampering with that value? (and of course reading that value)
23:00:25 <Eddi|zuHause> Rubidium: need to look that up
23:01:02 <Rubidium> dihedral: how about not doing that, like you're also not allowed to tamper with the town ratings or industry production
23:01:27 <Eddi|zuHause> 00:11.0 SATA controller: ATI Technologies Inc SB700/SB800 SATA Controller [IDE mode] (rev 40)
23:01:29 <Eddi|zuHause> 05:00.0 SATA controller: JMicron Technology Corp. JMB362/JMB363 Serial ATA Controller (rev 02)
23:01:30 <Eddi|zuHause> 05:00.1 IDE interface: JMicron Technology Corp. JMB362/JMB363 Serial ATA Controller (rev 02)
23:01:32 <Eddi|zuHause> one of these...
23:02:09 <dihedral> yeah - change the bios setting to show your sata disk as ide disk, install xp, change bios setting back :-P
23:02:49 <dihedral> else check JMicron for a driver
23:02:59 <frosch123> or run xp only virtualized :p
23:03:10 <Rubidium> Eddi|zuHause: doesn't sound familiar to me; quick google on the first doesn't look promosing
23:04:15 <Eddi|zuHause> frosch123: yeah, i have that, but i can't get Civ5 running in there ;)
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23:04:30 <Eddi|zuHause> Rubidium: the mainboard is called "Gigabyte GA-890GPA-UD3H 890GX"
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23:06:59 <Eddi|zuHause> Rubidium: SB700/SB800 seems to be the south bridge
23:09:37 <frosch123> andythenorth: your action5 handler is kind of redundant. i.e. what does the "special non-ttdp compatible case" do different that the default case?
23:10:32 <frosch123> other than that, you could add something like "ShoreReplacement" to improve compatibility with existing rail replacements
23:11:55 <frosch123> i.e. while the basegraphics can provide shore graphics for 3-corner-raised-slopes, they get disabled when a old newgrf replaces the shore sprites without using the action5
23:12:31 <frosch123> similiar you could disable the overlays, if a newgrf overrides the default rail-sprites including the level-crossing sprites, or so
23:13:06 <michi_cc> Eddi|zuHause: and select Windows XP, gets you drivers for both chips
23:13:25 <andythenorth> frosch123: disabling sounds useful
23:13:35 <andythenorth> otherwise I think old newgrfs break
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23:15:48 <andythenorth> I don't know what the action5 handler is for
23:15:55 <Eddi|zuHause> michi_cc: ok, i'll try that.
23:15:56 <andythenorth> I might have misunderstood a suggestion
23:16:39 <michi_cc> Eddi|zuHause: Probably the AMD preinstall driver is the right one
23:17:25 <Eddi|zuHause> can i check somehow which disk is controlled by which driver?
23:18:41 <michi_cc> No idea, but it's quite unlikely that the primary hard disk would not be on the AMD southbridge. And for everything else installing the drivers when windows is running should be enough.
23:19:03 <michi_cc> Anyway, you can load as many drivers has you want with the F6 way.
23:20:51 <planetmaker> andythenorth: the road is still drawn. That's correct?
23:23:59 <andythenorth> planetmaker: yes
23:24:04 <andythenorth> the road bits are still set
23:24:11 <andythenorth> I have code for that, but not in my patch queue yet
23:24:33 <planetmaker> oh... I'm curious despite ;-)
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23:24:53 <andythenorth> you around tomorrow?
23:25:52 <planetmaker> I only know by tomorrow noon. Might be not, but well.... it doesn't run away, does it?
23:26:52 <andythenorth> it can wait :)
23:27:08 <planetmaker> also I attached the nforenum patch to the thread
23:27:34 <andythenorth> thanks
23:28:33 <andythenorth> planetmaker: the first patch in the forum thread includes the code to not set road bits
23:28:41 <andythenorth> in rail_cmd.cpp
23:28:45 <planetmaker> aye yes
23:29:05 <andythenorth> and road_cmd.cpp
23:29:24 <andythenorth> but you'd have to merge some stuff manually :P
23:29:28 <andythenorth> I'm going to bed :D
23:29:43 <planetmaker> ah, I'll have a look
23:29:48 <planetmaker> sleep tight :-)
23:30:00 <andythenorth> I think it's a nice patch if it works
23:30:13 <planetmaker> I agree
23:30:18 <andythenorth> if I can work out the maglev special case, I think it also improves appearance of PBS elsewhere
23:30:24 <andythenorth> anyways
23:30:25 <andythenorth> bye
23:30:28 <DanMacK> Later all :D
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23:33:00 <Eddi|zuHause> i go screwing up my system now. wish me luck.
23:33:34 *** Eddi|zuHause has quit IRC
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23:40:19 <Terkhen> good luck Eddi
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23:44:20 <planetmaker> good night here also :-)
23:47:49 <dihedral> i do not quite follow that commit Rubidium
23:51:59 <fonsinchen> Terkhen: I think this is still wrong. You want something like this:
23:52:23 <fonsinchen> The legend can have a different number of rows for different map types
23:52:32 <fonsinchen> at least it can for cargodist ...
23:54:04 <Terkhen> hmm... is that an issue?
23:54:59 <fonsinchen> yes, because if you calculate the number of rows differently when clicking and drawing, the click goes to the wrong entry
23:55:10 <Terkhen> oh, that's what you meant
23:55:13 <fonsinchen> but maybe you're not doing that after all ... let me check
23:55:16 <Terkhen> in which cases does it fail now?
23:55:56 <fonsinchen> So far it's a theoretical observation: you're doing it in a different way than me and I had problems with that thing.
23:57:10 <Terkhen> hmm... the draw/click code could get some unification to make it less confusing
23:57:15 <fonsinchen> actually I think there is no problem. You're just always filling the columns first instead of the rows.
23:57:45 <fonsinchen> Maybe I should do that, too.
23:58:07 <fonsinchen> I'll push my changes and you may want to look at smallmap-stats then
23:58:16 <fonsinchen> I have done some unification already
23:59:53 <fonsinchen>
23:59:54 <Terkhen> hmm... it might look nicer when you increase width a lot if you fill rows first