IRC logs for #openttd on OFTC at 2010-12-28
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05:56:18 *** Eddi|zuHause has joined #openttd
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09:09:40 * andythenorth ponders getting to 2k FIRS commits
09:12:26 * Alberth thinks that the value of 'nice' decimal numbers is overrated
09:13:08 <Terkhen> then maybe you should aim for 2048
09:16:07 * Alberth ponders writing a program that computes the base to use for getting a nice number as soon as possible
09:16:40 <Terkhen> that way we could celebrate nice revision numbers more frequently :)
09:17:32 <Alberth> it is much easier to redefine the notion of 'nice' :)
09:17:47 <Alberth> it is ambiguous anyways :)
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09:22:59 <Terkhen> revisions ending with at least three zeroes, revisions in the form of 2**x, revisions that are prime numbers, palindromic numbers...
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09:25:30 * andythenorth brings to you quite a lot more industry smoke
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11:06:05 <wojteks86> I get an error when compiling src - table/strings.h could not be found
11:08:22 <Alberth> concentrate on getting strgen compiled instead
11:09:06 <wojteks86> I followed the instructions and it still gives me errors
11:09:36 <Alberth> so find out why strgen does not get compiled and run
11:10:13 <wojteks86> not sure what its like on your OS, but in VC++ it says something about dependancies
11:10:30 <wojteks86> default dont work so I tried to change them with no luck so far
11:11:45 <wojteks86> project dependencies - the order in which the things are compiled
11:14:10 <wojteks86> thanks, thats helpful
11:18:51 <wojteks86> I know you are experienced coder, but I have only started with it on Saturday...
11:20:20 <Terkhen> wojteks86: my guess is that you are compiling the wrong project, check the MSVC wiki for the correct sln file
11:21:16 <Alberth> Basically you are asking us to understand how your compiler reaches the conclusion "cannot find file X" without giving any other information. We need more details to deduce that.
11:22:10 <wojteks86> ok so I had VC++ 2010, and I was playing around with sln for ottd100
11:23:10 <wojteks86> I have downgraded to VC++ 2008 and now Im doing stuff in the project openttd_vs90.sln
11:23:25 <wojteks86> hope that makes sense
11:25:58 <Terkhen> if you are using that sln file with VC++ 2008, table/strings.h should be generated
11:26:00 <Alberth> random question: did you download and install openttd-useful.zip? did you set up VC (some of it seems to be in the 2005 wiki page)
11:26:38 <wojteks86> yes, I have set up includes and libs, I have disabled DirectX because Im not using it
11:27:43 <Alberth> so it is something else
11:28:41 <Alberth> euhm, why does "compiling" then say to add stuff to the directx headers?
11:29:40 <wojteks86> quote: Alternative: If you are willing to compile without support for MIDI music you will not be needing the DirectX SDK
11:29:55 <wojteks86> is that the same thing or Ive done something wrong?
11:30:32 <Alberth> looks that way, but you know how much I know about Win* machines :p
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11:31:30 <Alberth> I never tried to even install VC :D
11:31:52 <wojteks86> thats ok, I feel I shouldnt touch it either
11:32:09 <Alberth> I don't even know what questions to ask you to get a clue
11:33:55 <wojteks86> well, I must admit I thought the config will be easy - wiki describes it very clearly, now the errors appear regardless of what I try
11:34:57 <Alberth> the error is just the last stroke that kills the compilation
11:35:02 <Terkhen> I had no problems after following the 2008 wiki step by step
11:35:15 <Terkhen> you should recheck all steps, maybe you are missing something
11:35:34 <wojteks86> ok, let me check it... for the Xth time :)
11:35:51 <Alberth> find out why strgen is not build and executed
11:36:51 <Alberth> is it never tried, or does it say I don't need it, or is it run but gives errors?
11:37:20 <Alberth> and there are probably a dozen more ways to get it to fail
11:37:56 <Alberth> the system probably gives a reason somewhere
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12:01:49 <wojteks86> new error: error PRJ0002 : Error result 1 returned from 'C:\WINDOWS\system32\cmd.exe'
12:02:15 <wojteks86> @Terkhen, do you know this error?
12:02:46 <Terkhen> no, but google will know about that error ID
12:03:04 <wojteks86> I have just found something, so maybe this will help
12:07:51 <Alberth> cmd.exe is just the shell that runs a command. If it fails, it ususally means that the command it ran, has failed. Find out what command it executed. (strgen?)
12:09:19 <Alberth> (which sort of points towards PATH problems)
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12:40:16 <Dante123> is there any1 the know where to find a picture of "center-island diesel pumps for diesel train engines" ?
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13:09:49 <Dante123> any1 here that is a bit familiar with my DWE set ? the pipelines
13:14:41 <Wolf01> you should add more details, usually pipelines are composed of various pieces, not one big bent piece
13:15:41 <Dante123> also that black lines need more work
13:15:56 <Dante123> but i mean in the big lines it doesnt look weird now ?
13:17:26 <Dante123> its when i draw i look at 400% size :P
13:17:53 <Wolf01> eheh, pixart, I know it
13:17:54 <Dante123> so sometimes it fail in seeing the big picture :P
13:18:14 <Dante123> well thanx god photoshop can have multiple windows of the same part
13:18:24 <Dante123> where 1 is at 100% and the other 400% for example
13:18:51 <Wolf01> I use graphics gale free for pixart, it's better than PS imho
13:19:07 <Dante123> never heard of that ?
13:19:30 <Dante123> well im used to photoshop from work and a big history of signature designs :P
13:19:41 <Dante123> its called graphics gale ?
13:20:17 <Wolf01> search for the free version, you can't made animated gifs but I don't see the problem, we use png and pcx :P
13:20:46 <Dante123> we dont even need animated
13:20:55 <Dante123> animation is done with all different sprites :p
13:23:39 <Dante123> although the pipes still needs to be segmentated
13:24:48 <Wolf01> you should shade the lower floor, it looks continuous with the border
13:25:31 <Wolf01> you removed the black line, so the lower floor is now merged with the border in the bottom part
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13:29:26 <toasterdd> at first: sorry for my englich
13:29:47 <toasterdd> i have a proble witch openttd
13:29:52 <Dante123> aah yea i see what you ment Wolf01
13:30:16 <toasterdd> dbg: [net] Sync error detected!
13:30:20 <Dante123> i wil shade that a bit more Wolf01
13:30:34 <toasterdd> if i run under root all works fine
13:30:45 <toasterdd> all permission look fine
13:30:54 <Dante123> donnu what prog you use ?
13:31:15 <toasterdd> (old version - debian lenny)
13:31:49 <Yexo> toasterdd: that hasn't been supported for quite some time now
13:31:51 <Terkhen> that's a very old version, yes
13:32:03 <Yexo> start by updating to either 1.0.5 or 1.1.0-beta1
13:32:04 <Dante123> why not mibbit or mirc ?
13:32:19 <toasterdd> you thiks its a old bug?
13:32:25 <Wolf01> Dante123, he doesn't have problems with the chat, but with the game
13:32:57 <Yexo> most likely, and if not I doubt anybody wants to invest the time to find a bug in that old version only to find out later it was already fixed
13:32:59 <Alberth> toasterdd: no way to find out
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13:33:56 <toasterdd> ok, thx, i will look to update this (openttd is very nice ;-)
13:34:49 <Terkhen> IIRC there are debian packages for download at openttd.org
13:35:16 <toasterdd> hm, the proble under debian are the libs
13:35:49 <toasterdd> or exists a compiling for lenny wich old libs?
13:36:17 <Terkhen> if there is a package for lenny at openttd.org, I would assume it is using the correct libraries for that debian version
13:36:45 <toasterdd> oh fine ... fine ;-)
13:40:59 <Dante123> Wolf01 what about this now: Http://www.aqua-page.nl/dls/dls/images/1.PNG
13:41:35 <Wolf01> yes, now it looks really cool
13:55:32 <toasterdd> ok, i have now 1.0.5 but the same problem. If I start the server as root then a client can connect. But run the server as user the client becomes a sync error:
13:55:38 <toasterdd> dbg: [net] getaddrinfo for hostname "", port 0, address family either IPv4 or IPv6 and socket type udp failed: Address family for hostname not supported
13:56:00 <toasterdd> how resolve openttd the hostname?
13:56:43 <Terkhen> I'm guessing something is wrong in your openttd.cfg, as it is kept after reinstalling
13:57:07 <Ammler> or root simply binds to other ip than a user
13:57:52 <Ammler> try setting the address
13:58:46 <Ammler> or compare the root cfg with the one from the user
14:01:33 <toasterdd> the config for user and root starts are the same. I start witch "./openttd -D -c ./srv.cfg -g ./save/1.sav" and the users home is ./ (relative)
14:02:05 <toasterdd> an user can open unprivileged prots
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14:23:21 <CIA-2> OpenTTD: smatz * r21652 /trunk/src/ (engine.cpp pathfinder/yapf/yapf_road.cpp): -Cleanup: one semicolon is enough
14:31:42 <Andel> can someone please tell me the requirements for running a linux openttd server (Software wise)?
14:32:43 <Terkhen> check the readme, all required libraries are listed there
14:33:18 <Rubidium> Andel: depends on how the server is compiled
14:36:40 <Wolf01> and if you mean memory and processor.. the same of the normal game
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14:46:33 <DarkTomas> Hello anyone here ?
14:46:38 <DarkTomas> I need Fast Help Pls
14:47:09 <DarkTomas> I have a question ^^
14:47:43 <DarkTomas> Me and my firends want to play openttd in multiplayer thats not the problem but we want to disable aircraft / planes
14:47:50 <DarkTomas> sry my english is noit the best
14:48:25 <Wolf01> set the aircraft limit to 0 in the options
14:48:26 <ABCRic> Advanced Settings > Vehicles > Set aircraft limit to 0
14:50:25 <DarkTomas> an another question gives a way to customice the multiplayer more?
14:50:36 <DarkTomas> more then the advanced Options?
14:51:00 <ABCRic> you can customize it as much as single-player
14:51:19 <Wolf01> there are some console commands you can't find in advanced settings
14:51:32 <DarkTomas> where i find there?
14:52:06 <DarkTomas> sry guys in openttd im a noob
14:52:56 * ABCRic would provide a link if only his ISP's DNS server was working
14:53:18 <Alberth> Type ` <-- backtic, near the ESC or ~ at most keyboards
14:54:22 <Alberth> but even then, there are very few settings specific for multi-player, except the usual ones, like passwd, #players, or network settings
14:55:36 <Alberth> you know that many customizations can be done by loading NewGRFs before starting?
14:55:38 <ABCRic> brb, gotta reset connection
14:57:46 <ABCRic> I bet my ISP is cutting my connection on purpose... I should them some email one of these days.
14:58:30 <Wolf01> it happens here too, every 5 minutes in some cases
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14:59:39 <ABCRic> Over the last months, it seems the connection gets worse around the 20th every month, then gets better the start of the next month.
15:00:24 <ABCRic> At least once a day I lose DNS access and have to reconnect or I can't access any page
15:01:11 <DarkTomas> AbcRic whisch internet provider?
15:01:17 <ZirconiumX> hello ABCRic, how are you?
15:01:39 <DarkTomas> o.O you are from germany ?
15:01:55 <ABCRic> DarkTomas: no, I am from Portugal
15:02:16 <DarkTomas> o.O vodafone in Portugal
15:02:44 <ABCRic> I'd say second biggest phone carrier here.
15:03:28 <Wolf01> ABCRic, change your dns, use google or something else
15:03:46 <ABCRic> Wolf01: I tried... It doesn't work.
15:04:25 <ABCRic> I have to reconnect for the setting to take effect, and if I do, it resets to auto-detect.
15:04:26 <Wolf01> then is not dns problem, it's httprequest problem, did you try to ping a site when this happen?
15:04:58 <ABCRic> Yes, and it won't resolve the address.
15:05:18 <DarkTomas> Guys can i ask you a Hm i think stupid question?
15:05:29 <DarkTomas> not stupid but i didnt find a better word
15:05:42 <Alberth> DarkTomas: don't ask to ask, just ask the question
15:06:03 <DarkTomas> I make more money with peoples or industries?
15:06:33 <ABCRic> Depends on distance, type of transport, etc.
15:06:46 *** IchGuckLive has joined #openttd
15:06:48 <DarkTomas> only trains and street vehicles
15:07:01 <Alberth> in the graphs, there is a cargo payment window
15:07:16 <ABCRic> Also depends on what vehicles you use.
15:07:40 <ABCRic> There's a graph button on the toolbar
15:09:20 <DarkTomas> i must go afk sry tghank you all
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15:18:26 <IchGuckLive> hey its snpowing hevely outside ,so no walk around .Play OpenTTD insted what is the best to start in Dessert ?
15:18:44 <IchGuckLive> the graph give me a Dimand most money
15:19:03 <IchGuckLive> but i think water is more efficent so there is more to transport ?
15:25:16 <DanMacK> Diamonds are good money, but very low output to start
15:25:26 <Alberth> IchGuckLive: Look in the cargo payment window to see what pays best
15:25:45 <ABCRic> Anyone know how to compile a solution through the command line using MSVC without having to call any batch files?
15:25:50 <DanMacK> I usually try for maize or copper at the start
15:26:53 <IchGuckLive> thanks so start and wait for a subvention offer
15:31:03 <DanMacK> That's the way I uslally do it.
15:31:18 <DanMacK> Starting with passenger services in cities is good too.
15:32:01 <DanMacK> If you've got a water supply near a desert town w/a water tower, serve it ASAP, either with trucks or a small rail operation, that helps the city grow
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15:35:31 <ABCRic> Finally found msbuild.exe! windows search... I am disappoint.
15:36:54 <IchGuckLive> one more question: if i give a train "unload all do not load " it seams that he longer stays in the station then if i do nothing on the order ? is this TRHU
15:38:12 <DanMacK> If a station accepts a cargo, you don't need to hit that. Only if you're transferring to another train or mode of transport
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15:50:52 * DanMacK misses the Treasure Island map from original TTD, and will have to load it in Open when he gets home
15:51:58 *** andythenorth has joined #openttd
15:53:15 <IchGuckLive> do i have to include in dessert all tiles of a industrie oil Raffenerie in case ?
15:54:01 <IchGuckLive> there are 6 tanks on the one side and 2 starion buildings on the other side
15:58:31 <andythenorth> IchGuckLive: what industry set?
16:00:24 <ABCRic> IchGuckLive: are you using any NewGRF industry set?
16:00:44 <IchGuckLive> ok i did it allone and includet all tile
16:01:06 <IchGuckLive> ABCRic: no just standard download
16:01:29 <andythenorth> IchGuckLive: the station building window might tell you what's accepted / supplied
16:01:45 <andythenorth> or that might be only in nightly build
16:02:55 <ABCRic> andythenorth: no, it's in the stable too
16:10:08 <IchGuckLive> ABCRic: why is there a run checkbox?
16:10:47 <ABCRic> IchGuckLive: because compiling takes around 6 minutes and I don't know if I still want to play after that time :P
16:12:02 <ccfreak2k> ABCRic, I swear I've seen this before.
16:12:31 <ccfreak2k> Some kind of OpenTTD SVN updater/patcher/compiler.
16:13:19 *** SystemParadox has joined #openttd
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16:15:22 <ABCRic> Unless you mean that script that's somewhere on the openttdcoop wiki
16:30:10 * ABCRic likes andythenorth's FISH
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16:32:02 <ABCRic> an equivalent to the hovercraft, maybe? the OpenGFX one looks strange in the middle of the other ships :P
16:34:23 <Terkhen> there's already a hovercraft in FISH
16:35:28 <ABCRic> Terkhen: but it's equivalent to the original; it carries everything but passengers
16:35:35 <Ammler> just watch a streamcast about vcs (git) which does not recommend to branch from trunk :-)
16:36:07 <Terkhen> the original hovercraft is the only standard ship not disabled by FISH IIRC
16:37:07 <ABCRic> Yes, but like I said, it looks strange in the middle of the set
16:37:48 <andythenorth> actually, latest FISH nightly will also leave the original ferries in the game
16:37:57 <andythenorth> this is a temporary thing
16:38:05 <andythenorth> we needed more passenger ships :P
16:38:43 <andythenorth> I have a render that needs painting for a big passenger hovercraft
16:38:55 <andythenorth> I also have a small, fast, any-cargo hovercraft to paint
16:39:00 <andythenorth> and some hydrofoils
16:39:06 <andythenorth> but painting takes ages
16:45:51 <Alberth> Ammler: sounds useful :p
16:46:42 <DanMacK> Yeah... it does, but results are worth it :P
16:48:14 <DanMacK> Maybe use the OpenGFX ferry sprites instead of the default ones? :P
16:50:03 <andythenorth> DanMacK: it just uses graphics from whatever base set is enabled
16:50:11 <andythenorth> (in the case of default ferries)
16:51:39 <DanMacK> ahhh, makes sense then
16:58:07 <dihedral> to have had a happy x-mas, y'all
17:00:25 <Ammler> dihedral: not much x, but nice anyway :-)
17:01:36 <Ammler> that is fine enough...
17:13:02 <Hirundo> In CmdAutofillTimetable, it seems that *stuff* happens in test mode (DC_EXEC not set)
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17:48:55 <dihedral> sorry, i just needed that timestamp :-P
17:49:40 * dihedral hands Eddi|zuHause a 'groschen' ;-)
17:57:41 <Eddi|zuHause> strangely, that word has completely got out of use
17:58:46 <dihedral> it was linked too deeply to 10 pfennig in peoples mindes
17:59:15 <Eddi|zuHause> but it could easily have been moved to mean 10 cent instead
17:59:19 *** ZirconiumX has joined #openttd
18:01:53 <DorpsGek> dihedral: 1.0.5 | Website: *.openttd.org (translator: translator, server list: servers, wiki: wiki, patches & bug-reports: bugs, revision log: vcs, release info: finger) | Don't ask to ask, just ask | Latest is not a valid version | English only
18:02:32 *** planetmaker changes topic to "1.0.5 | Website: *.openttd.org (translator: translator, server list: servers, wiki: wiki, patches & bug-reports: bugs, revision log: vcs, release info: finger) | Don't ask to ask, just ask | 'Latest' is not a valid version | English only"
18:05:15 <dihedral> grrr... openttd.org timesout for me :-(
18:07:40 <lugo> andythenorth, "It can. It probably won't. I prefer to have the smoke all the time." < i think that would've been a neat gimmick :)
18:07:51 <andythenorth> pikka did it in PBI
18:07:53 <andythenorth> it's a neat gimmick
18:08:08 <lugo> yup nothing more nothing less :)
18:08:17 <andythenorth> but smoke all the time looks better
18:15:46 *** fjb is now known as Guest2532
18:19:33 <dihedral> yumm... 164MB/s write speed
18:22:02 <ZirconiumX> How old is your PC....
18:22:50 <planetmaker> dihedral: continuously?
18:26:39 <Alberth> now just find a way to generate data fast enough :)
18:27:01 <dihedral> data or usable data? :-P
18:27:20 <dihedral> well, it's my laptop - it'll fill up fast enough
18:29:06 <dihedral> but it is rather nice to see installations to just wizz along ^^
18:29:21 <Ammler> hmm, me should setup a AutoLatest server ;-)
18:29:46 <dihedral> i am working on a autonightly app :-)
18:29:58 <Ammler> booring nightly might be valied :-P
18:40:35 <Terkhen> do you know of any NewGRF with faster bridges?
18:41:06 <dihedral> bridges don't move at all
18:41:40 <Terkhen> I see... I wanted them to jump around
18:42:07 <Terkhen> I could also use bridges that allow vehicles to move faster across them :P
18:43:12 <dihedral> you could make a vehicle set that just uses the sprites from bridges :-P
18:45:58 <CIA-2> OpenTTD: translators * r21653 /trunk/src/lang/ (10 files): (log message trimmed)
18:45:58 <CIA-2> OpenTTD: -Update from WebTranslator v3.0:
18:45:58 <CIA-2> OpenTTD: catalan - 2 changes by arnau
18:45:58 <CIA-2> OpenTTD: english_US - 6 changes by Rubidium
18:45:58 <CIA-2> OpenTTD: esperanto - 13 changes by Christopher
18:45:59 <CIA-2> OpenTTD: estonian - 35 changes by notAbot
18:45:59 <CIA-2> OpenTTD: french - 8 changes by glx
18:46:41 <ZirconiumX> Ahem, serious fault condition, using r21649, opened advanced settings, and selected the display options menu in the interaction menu, and it crashed
18:47:37 <dihedral> do you have the crashlog? (if yes, please upload it somewhere or use a service such as pastebin.com)
18:48:16 <ZirconiumX> Am compiling a bug report as we speak
18:52:04 <Terkhen> how do you know it is "serious"?
18:52:32 <ABCRic> Terkhen: it's what the crash windows says
18:52:46 <ZirconiumX> Well for a start it said Serious fault condition has occured, the game will now shut down
18:54:22 <ZirconiumX> On a note, it didn't show the assertation failure window, so that's not it
18:54:35 <ZirconiumX> that's why it's OS X
18:54:46 <Terkhen> it is probably OSX related, yes
18:56:24 <Terkhen> so... there is no bridge newgrf that allows speeds greater than 611?
18:56:29 <Alberth> you could remove all newgrfs and start a bew game, to be sure it is not a newgrf
18:56:45 * ZirconiumX worries that OS X support will be dropped
18:57:36 <dihedral> well, 2 mins for compiling openttd is not too bad for a laptop
18:57:38 <Alberth> also, is it reliable, ie crashes it each time?
18:58:06 <ZirconiumX> I started new game crashed, opened savegame, crashed
18:58:19 <Eddi|zuHause> OS X support WAS dropped.
18:58:31 <Eddi|zuHause> over a year ago.
18:58:34 <ABCRic> Eddi|zuHause: and resumed, kinda
18:58:35 <Alberth> ZirconiumX: grfs that have 'obsolete' in their path does not sound too promising :)
18:58:57 <dihedral> i doubt os x support would get dropped that quickly again ;-)
18:59:14 <ZirconiumX> It's just crashed, no grfs
18:59:17 <planetmaker> Eddi|zuHause: there are OSX nightlies...
18:59:47 <planetmaker> well. It works for me. But you use a PPC computer
18:59:54 * planetmaker wonders whether it could be BE related
18:59:57 <Eddi|zuHause> planetmaker: but afair the situation of "no dev has actually a clue about the os x api" doesn't really have changed
19:00:03 <dihedral> planetmaker, i'll go test ;-)
19:00:50 <dihedral> my dsl provider seems to have minor issues with tt-forums and openttd, etc.
19:00:53 * ZirconiumX hope that it isn't
19:00:57 <dihedral> probably some peering somewhere
19:01:02 <dihedral> i'll check once that is resolved
19:01:13 <Alberth> the setting that should be drawn is "group expenses in company finance window", a very stable setting.
19:01:36 <ABCRic> dihedral: have you tried a proxy?
19:02:06 <dihedral> i am about to try going via mobile internet
19:02:18 <ABCRic> Alberth: nothing is stable when you're using a nightly :P
19:02:58 <dihedral> 'stable' is relative
19:03:05 <ZirconiumX> but this is code that 1.1.0-beta2 is going to be built on
19:03:07 <planetmaker> dihedral: all you need to do is get r21649 from the usual download and try to open the adv. settings from ingame (not main menu)
19:03:12 <Alberth> yeah, but that code has not been changed for a long time
19:03:24 <planetmaker> hm... ok, but you can't reach openttd?
19:04:51 <dihedral> i'll try mobile internet
19:05:33 <planetmaker> yes, it also works here on OSX...
19:05:52 <planetmaker> dihedral: I'll upload the nightly to the coop server, can you reach that?
19:05:52 <dihedral> if it's an endianess issue, try an AMD computer
19:05:56 <dihedral> instead of intel based
19:06:17 <ZirconiumX> there is no AMD mac
19:06:53 <ZirconiumX> I don't have Linux, nor win
19:07:13 <dihedral> no, but someone else in this channel may
19:07:24 <Alberth> ZirconiumX: can you provide a debug stack trace? that should give more information on what it is doing.
19:07:35 * ZirconiumX appeals for an AMD user to come forward
19:07:52 * Alberth uses a 64bit AMD machine
19:08:52 <ZirconiumX> So a piccy of what the debug console says at start of launch?
19:09:25 *** Eddi|zuHause has joined #openttd
19:10:22 <ZirconiumX> Alberth, sorry to be noobish but what is a debug stack trace?
19:11:50 <dihedral> 24 mins for the download :-D
19:12:00 <dihedral> i do not get a HSDPA connection in my flat :-P
19:12:24 <dihedral> well - we'll have to live with that
19:12:32 <andythenorth> ZirconiumX: do you use the OS X package? (double click to run), or do you build your own ottd?
19:13:22 <andythenorth> ZirconiumX: do you know how to use terminal?
19:13:26 <Alberth> hmm, then you cannot supply one :(
19:14:47 <dihedral> but Alberth already confirmed it :-)
19:15:03 <Alberth> that was a different crash
19:15:49 <planetmaker> uhm... but AMD is little endian, too? Or do I miss out on something?
19:16:24 <Alberth> no idea, people asked for a AMD test person :)
19:17:20 <dihedral> i recall some password issue at some point where a passowrded company with the password set on an amd system could not be joined from intel - so i'd assume so
19:17:21 <andythenorth> I can start ottd from inside the OS X package using terminal, but it misses the normal debug output I see
19:17:28 <andythenorth> do I need to specify debug level?
19:17:41 <andythenorth> (I normally use 'make run')
19:18:35 <planetmaker> in order to reproduce this issue you don't need to specify a debug level...
19:18:58 <planetmaker> that starts to get interesting IF you can reproduce it :-)
19:19:31 <andythenorth> I missed what the issue was :P
19:19:38 <andythenorth> just trying to help....
19:19:45 * andythenorth goes back to coding smoke ;)
19:20:03 <Alberth> andythenorth: trying to get a debug stack trace from the crash
19:20:22 <dihedral> hehe - i cannot even open the display settings
19:20:38 <andythenorth> well normally I'd see that in terminal IIRC, depending on how I ran ottd
19:21:17 <ZirconiumX> Right in the middle of a problem, been following?
19:22:25 * dihedral can access openttd.org again :-)
19:24:06 <planetmaker> [20:20] <dihedral> hehe - i cannot even open the display settings <-- which means?
19:24:27 * ZirconiumX stops celebrating and askes dihedral if he can replicate the problem
19:24:28 <dihedral> but it crashes right there
19:24:55 <dihedral> i'll update my copy of opengfx
19:27:09 <ZirconiumX> What version do you have currently
19:28:27 <dihedral> that really was a silly question :-P
19:29:55 <ZirconiumX> 'Tis a question none the less
19:30:54 <ZirconiumX> You've got me wondering...
19:31:05 <ZirconiumX> I've got myself wonder
19:31:26 <dihedral> i am trying to reproduce your bug report ;-)
19:31:34 <dihedral> what version would i sensibly be using ^^
19:31:45 <dihedral> anyway - i can reproduce
19:31:54 <dihedral> crash at opening display options
19:32:18 <ZirconiumX> that makes it a 'confirmed' bug
19:32:54 <dihedral> but i am not someone to change that status, and keeping that status 1:1 up to date is not as important as fining and fixing the bug
19:34:41 <ZirconiumX> May want to put you have replicated that bug on the FS bug
19:35:42 <dihedral> like i said ;-) it is not that important that the status is reflected 1:1
19:36:18 <ZirconiumX> I have to go, best of luck finding and fixing that bug.
19:39:31 <dihedral> friendly at least :-)
19:39:43 <dihedral> does not have this 'shoot-em-up temper' :-P
19:40:11 <planetmaker> dihedral: can you possibly try to get a stacktrace?
19:40:35 <dihedral> i am just compiling the debug enabled binary ;-)
19:40:48 <dihedral> needs about 25mins on that machine
19:41:18 <dihedral> i was just going to get a core dump
19:42:57 <dihedral> and upload the 700MB :-D
19:48:26 *** Guest2304 is now known as SmatZ
19:51:30 <SmatZ> dihedral: do you have your client set to some RTL language? :)
19:52:30 <dihedral> no - i just have many features and i am trying them all out :-D
19:55:40 <SmatZ> dihedral: about FS#4345, you reproduced it only in OSX?
19:56:18 <dihedral> i am sorry, i have no amd based computer around to try it on
19:56:31 <dihedral> 2x intel, 1x ppc, 1x via
19:56:46 <SmatZ> "Has been reproduced by dihedral." means you reproduced it :)
19:57:02 <dihedral> my amd based machine is at an office currently bing used as decoration standing in the corner, i still have to pick it up
19:57:23 <dihedral> doing it like the rabbits, ey?
19:57:25 <SmatZ> there shouldn't be difference between AMD and Intel CPUs (unless it's some invalid instruction problem - but the crash log says SIGSEGV, not SIGILL)
19:57:50 <glx> OSX on AMD is not easy :)
19:57:58 <dihedral> so, sigill is used for endian issues?
19:57:59 <SmatZ> I don't know what were you doing to reproduce it :)
19:58:09 <SmatZ> dihedral: SIGILL is illegal instruction
19:58:27 <dihedral> and if i assume an endianness issue ;-)
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19:58:47 <SmatZ> dihedral: so it crashes only on ppc, not on x86?
19:58:53 <glx> but AMD and Intel have the same endianness
19:59:07 <dihedral> glx i think they do not
19:59:26 <planetmaker> andythenorth: you're on an intel machine and you cannot reproduce FS#4345, right?
20:00:24 <planetmaker> well, could you? :-)
20:00:26 <dihedral> plannetmaker cannot reproduce
20:05:29 <planetmaker> they'd not be x86 clones otherwise ;-)
20:05:38 <dihedral> yes, that is quite true :-P
20:07:59 <glx> the crash.log tells where the segfault happens but it's not precise enough
20:08:20 <planetmaker> dihedral: so, you cannot reproduce the issue? What was "[20:31] <dihedral> anyway - i can reproduce" about?
20:10:42 <glx> colour=3225937076 <-- nice
20:12:18 <planetmaker> hm, yes... next follows an array access with that colour as index
20:12:24 <Eddi|zuHause> alpha channel? ;)
20:12:56 <dihedral> but why on ppc macs only?
20:13:32 <planetmaker> they're both 10.4.11... maybe it's related to that...
20:13:59 <SmatZ> dihedral: do you use gcc 4.0.1 too?
20:14:16 <planetmaker> SmatZ: the downloaded version from the CF...
20:14:23 <planetmaker> oh... there the debug. hm
20:14:33 <planetmaker> there's no ohter ppc compiler ;-)
20:14:50 <glx> dihedral: PPC (well BE) had "problems" with bools too
20:15:20 <dihedral> no wonder i had to press the 'off' button to turn it on :-P
20:16:34 <glx> _bool_ctabs[!!on][!!editable] <-- maybe BE doesn't like :)
20:17:42 <glx> bool on = (*(bool*)var); <-- and that's another option
20:17:43 <SmatZ> dihedral: does it work if you compile with --enable-debug=3 ?
20:18:14 <dihedral> i'll try - will take another 25 mins before the compile is done though
20:18:46 <glx> anyway the bug is somewhere in void SettingEntry::DrawSetting(GameSettings *settings_ptr, const SettingDesc *sd, int left, int right, int y, int state)
20:19:14 <SmatZ> rather in apple's gcc :p
20:23:14 <glx> but !! is used in many places and used to work
20:23:59 <SmatZ> well, that "dir ^= true" used to work too :P
20:26:23 * andythenorth has a pony suggestion
20:26:28 <andythenorth> quite a serious one
20:26:51 <dihedral> why would openttd want a pony? :-P
20:26:57 <andythenorth> vehicle property that could increase station ratings
20:27:30 <andythenorth> e.g. if the train contains a restaurant car, uses a caboose, is a luxury liner etc
20:28:52 * Wolf01 wants to suggest a pony too
20:29:17 <Alberth> don't suggest to suggest, just suggest :)
20:29:41 <Wolf01> passengers wagons should be able to double their capacity when the in the station there are more than 1000 passengers
20:31:04 <Wolf01> in Italy, Milano-Padova and Milano-Bologna routes always have this problem (at least the 2 ones I use)
20:31:23 <dihedral> take a buss in sao paulo :-P
20:31:41 <dihedral> 'double' is not enough for what they stuff into a single buss
20:31:50 <Wolf01> somebody should code Indian trains with passengers on the roof
20:32:31 <planetmaker> Wolf01: someone should *draw* them first
20:33:07 <planetmaker> if you modify the existing passenger wagons for OpenGFX: please go ahead and I might provide you with that featre as a small little easter egg for OpenGFX+trains ;-)
20:33:12 <Wolf01> newgrf: passengers wagons with unlimited capacity, just put people on it until all available pixels are taken
20:34:17 * andythenorth doesn't want people in the game :P
20:34:25 <andythenorth> I like the strange semi-aspergic empty world
20:34:27 <Wolf01> eheh, the most difficult thing I was able to do was to code a steam engine with the maglev chimera graphics
20:35:01 <andythenorth> actually the reason no-one is in the world is they are all watching football / rugby
20:35:08 <andythenorth> or at least, waiting for the game to start
20:35:11 <dihedral> SmatZ, i've updated the ticket
20:35:37 <andythenorth> 'someone' should animate a game on the stadium pitches
20:38:54 <fjb> You should at least double the capacity of the passenger wagons with people on the roof. And you should add passengers as an additional cargo to the goods wagons.
20:39:20 <Alberth> add it as refit option :)
20:40:20 <dihedral> i have a pony too :-P
20:40:38 <planetmaker> refit: overloaded passenger wagon (developing countries style)
20:40:49 <dihedral> if you supply a town with too much food / goods the passangers from there are to x % obese :-{
20:40:58 * fjb wonders why the TTD towns are building hospitals when always all people are dying in a crash.
20:41:24 <Alberth> people have to be healthy enough to drive/travel
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20:43:09 <planetmaker> dihedral: in the crash window you got / get... are the filenames correctly stated?
20:44:04 <dihedral> i was running it in qdb - there was no crash window
20:45:16 <dihedral> funny thing is, the difference in the value of colour
20:47:33 <dihedral> why on earth can i reach bugs.openttd.org from my mac but not from my linux computers?
20:48:37 <LordAro> i believe i read something somewhere that OTTD can now read .zip files, is this true?
20:49:01 <planetmaker> people write all kind of crap
20:49:21 <dihedral> yes, you rename an scn to zip and then start openttd with -g save/*.zip
20:49:56 * LordAro wonders how hard it is to implement such a thing ;)
20:50:18 <dihedral> anyone can do it, you should have a try :-P
20:52:03 <Terkhen> why would you want to do that? sav/scn files are already compressed
20:52:44 <ABCRic> Terkhen: double-layered compression :P
20:52:54 <LordAro> i mean for things like bananas (and downloading off openttdcoop ;) )
20:52:55 <dihedral> that's like worth nothing
20:53:52 <LordAro> not that i know anything about this sort of thing
20:54:04 <dihedral> LordAro, for compressing the data on it's way from bananas to openttd it does not have to be zip
20:54:24 <dihedral> seeing as there is already support for compression in openttd, i'd suggest focussing on what is available
20:54:33 <dihedral> rather than intorducing something new
20:54:42 <Terkhen> aren't NewGRFs already compressed too?
20:54:45 <ABCRic> dihedral: incorrect! I just zip compressed this savegame I have here and its size was reduced by... 44 bytes!!! :P
20:54:55 <dihedral> Terkhen, they are in tar archives, tar is not compressed
20:55:05 <Terkhen> I know, I meant .grf files by themselves
20:55:08 <dihedral> however, it could very well be that the http server does gzip it's output
20:55:29 <dihedral> ABCRic, 44 bytes is not worth a hassle
20:55:41 <ABCRic> I know, I was just kidding.
20:55:45 <dihedral> if your save was only 88 bytes in size, that would be more interesting ;-)
20:57:05 <ABCRic> which makes no difference on disk.
20:57:59 <ABCRic> But this other savegame, it was 7,72 MB and is now 7,71!!one!
20:59:54 <ABCRic> The other day, though, I zip compressed some file and the zip archive was actually bigger than the original file
21:00:26 <planetmaker> compressing white noise results in bigger files
21:00:58 <ABCRic> and compressing the zip archive resulted in an even bigger archive
21:02:44 * LordAro wonders about the possibility of a bash script for the mingw setup. Terkhen?
21:02:49 <ABCRic> hmm... compressing the 24152B savegame I mentioned previously using .7z increased its size by 4 bytes
21:03:26 <LordAro> ABCRic: ignore whatever i say then :D
21:03:41 <ABCRic> so, if zip = 24108 and 7z = 24156, then zip > 7z
21:04:11 <ABCRic> math is a strange science indeed :P
21:05:12 <SmatZ> ABCRic: you compressed already compressed archive?
21:05:25 <ABCRic> SmatZ: no, the original file
21:05:38 <ABCRic> which was compressed by the game, yes
21:07:23 * andythenorth doesn't add smoke to every chimney
21:07:27 <andythenorth> might be overkill :P
21:17:00 <dihedral> who complained about dell and their silly support software?
21:17:16 <dihedral> it's not windows based anymore :-P at least not on my laptop ^^
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21:29:53 <andythenorth> shall I release more FISH?
21:33:19 <dihedral> you guys said colour was the prob ...
21:33:31 <dihedral> uint light = _colour_gradient[colour][7];
21:33:36 <dihedral> i say it's not colour :-P
21:33:50 <dihedral> colour is used a few times before as access to the same array
21:43:13 <LordAro> Yexo: AITown::IsCity() updated. comit please! :D
21:44:18 <planetmaker> dihedral: it's most likely the variable address resolution or alike
21:45:26 <dihedral> look at the first backtrace
21:45:39 <dihedral> it complains about line 170 of widget.cpp
21:45:49 <dihedral> the 3 lines before that must have been fine
21:46:01 <dihedral> the second backtrace is different in that sense
21:46:33 <glx> dihedral: means the invalid colour is ok before [7] ;)
21:46:51 <planetmaker> well. The colour of the company finances IS wrong: [22:05] <planetmaker> the "group exenses in the finances window" boolean button gets a wrong colour assigned: http://imagebin.org/129955
21:48:13 <dihedral> but colour does not get increased before the usage in that line
21:48:58 <dihedral> the group expenses looks alright on my laptop :-P
21:49:38 <planetmaker> that's the part which triggers the crash here and when leaving out many deps it's which gets the wrong colour. Feels like a smoking gun ;-)
21:50:21 <dihedral> but the colour itself is still valid
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21:50:33 *** ABCRic_ is now known as ABCRic
21:51:00 <planetmaker> dihedral: but it's an out-of-bounds memory access for the array
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21:52:40 <dihedral> planetmaker, at line 170, but not at 169? using the same colour value?
21:53:36 <dihedral> 7 is out of bounds and 6 is not
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21:57:47 <planetmaker> dihedral: settings_gui.cpp:1154-1158 is what sets the colour
21:59:04 <dihedral> yes, i am just tampering with that
21:59:29 <ABCRic> if it's an out-of-bounds problem, how come it only happens on ppc?
22:00:22 <LordAro> when committing in hg, what's the best 'command structure' (hg commit --message....etc, what?)
22:00:33 <dihedral> i am curious if it would happen on a ppc running linux
22:01:20 <planetmaker> dihedral: setup a debian. IIRC they provide there a binary for some BE architecture, too. I don't recall which, though
22:01:41 <dihedral> i aint dropping my os x from that laptop ^^
22:02:44 <dihedral> interesting - with --enable-debug=3 i cannot reproduce the segfault on line 170 but on 167
22:03:25 <SmatZ> with high debug level, openttd is compiled with -O0
22:03:48 <SmatZ> by default, it's with -O2, so statements can be executed in different order
22:05:06 <dihedral> you could have mentioned that earlier :-P
22:06:18 <SmatZ> it could be bug in the compiler
22:06:21 <LordAro> i realise you are busy fixing bugs, but i would like an answer please :)
22:06:41 <SmatZ> LordAro: I don't use hg
22:07:00 <V453000> LordAro: have a beer, that will bring your answer
22:07:13 <V453000> if it doesnt, have another
22:07:21 <V453000> until answer found :)
22:07:43 <ABCRic> while(!answer_found) DrinkBeer(); // :P
22:07:58 <LordAro> i got a better idea: ask in #openttdcoop
22:10:49 <dihedral> SmatZ, how could we find out?
22:11:02 <LordAro> i liked that so much i added it to my sig :)
22:12:43 <SmatZ> dihedral: if it works fine with -O0, it could be compiler bug
22:12:56 <LordAro> btw, i'm aiming my question at planetmaker mostly, since he probably does the most committing ;)
22:13:06 <SmatZ> (it still can be compiler bug even at -O0 though)
22:13:57 <LordAro> when committing in hg, what's the best 'command structure' (hg commit --message....etc, what?)
22:14:17 <dihedral> SmatZ, it's not fine, it just fails at a different line
22:14:43 <planetmaker> hg ci -m "my crap"
22:14:53 <planetmaker> with a properly configured ~/.hgrc
22:15:07 <planetmaker> but all that is in the mercurial help files
22:15:38 <planetmaker> consider to do a STFW next time please
22:16:42 <SmatZ> dihedral: so probably a bug in openttd
22:17:50 <LordAro> planetmaker: i did... but now you may carry on with your debugging (or whatever) ;)
22:18:19 <planetmaker> thank you sooo much for your generosity
22:18:34 <ABCRic> SmatZ: but what is the cause? A mystery, I say...
22:19:51 <SmatZ> ABCRic: it seems value out of normal range of bool is stored into memory, and then read as if it was bool
22:20:10 <SmatZ> so the compiler assumes the value is [01], but it's something else
22:20:18 <dihedral> SmatZ, i just fail to see what could be done to fix it :-)
22:21:11 <ABCRic> So the question is _why_ it is out of normal range of bool.
22:21:11 <dihedral> glx: i'll give that a shot
22:22:31 <SmatZ> ABCRic: yeah :) maybe improper checks when loading setting from savegame, or a bug somewhere...
22:22:53 <__ln__> ABCRic: { false, true, maybe, couldbe, whoknows };
22:24:26 <ABCRic> broken translator might be broken
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22:26:14 * Brianetta nearly doffs his hat, before remembering that it's part of his mask
22:27:57 <glx> but that doesn't explain why a bool can be "wrong"
22:29:57 <dihedral> i'll give that a shot
22:30:00 <glx> this printf is with patch applied
22:35:36 <dihedral> i get similar output
22:41:07 <SmatZ> is that really the problematic value?
22:41:45 <SmatZ> but in the dump planetmaker provided, 10 wasn't the last value printed before the crash
22:42:14 <planetmaker> SmatZ: those values were not created from a crashed version
22:42:24 <planetmaker> my version where I create those with doesn't crash
22:42:27 <planetmaker> Just wrong colours
22:44:22 <ABCRic> So we have two problems?
22:44:54 <dihedral> well - we have many more problems :-D
22:45:00 <dihedral> many more than just the one
22:45:17 <planetmaker> today we call it 'challenges' :-P
22:49:28 <planetmaker> src/settings_gui.cpp:1158: warning: format ‘%d’ expects type ‘int’, but argument 3 has type ‘const void*’ <-- (*(bool*)var) is not a bool. As such it can be many things
22:49:55 <planetmaker> at least for gcc 4.0.1
22:52:58 <dihedral> silly gcc 4.0.1 (Apple Computer, Inc. build 5370)
22:54:22 <planetmaker> hm, no, off-by one error on my part
22:59:32 <dihedral> one could consider it a compiler bug, or incorect feeding of the compiler with source it likes to eat :-P
23:13:10 <ABCRic> And how shall we solve this problem with this compiler and its exquisite gustation?
23:14:25 <ABCRic> Any other suggestions?
23:17:02 <Eddi|zuHause> yes, but you are not going to like them either :p
23:26:56 *** KenjiE20 has joined #openttd
23:31:13 <planetmaker> and also good night all others
23:32:41 <ABCRic> I'm off as well. Good night everyone
continue to next day ⏵
