IRC logs for #openttd on OFTC at 2010-12-19
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02:41:16 <anythingffs> guys, Im in the Vehicle List window, sorting by the least profitable by last year, how do I select the first couple of hundred results?
02:41:34 <anythingffs> like you can do in windows with the shift key and click
02:41:56 *** anythingffs is now known as tt1314
02:45:53 <tt1314> is an update to the window interfaces on the cards?
02:52:03 <tt1314> there must be an easier way than going through them one by one, Ive got 500 vehicles to take off road
02:53:19 <Yexo> if you group them you can send them to the depot group by group
02:53:28 <Yexo> ]if they have shared orders you can modify those to stop in depot
02:55:43 <tt1314> im dragging the bus icon from the ungrouped list to a group but there are closer to 1000 I need to then add to the group
02:56:23 * tt1314 doesnt believe in profitable bus service
02:59:47 <tt1314> if any of the people who control Openttd are about, a new interface for the Vehicles List with check boxes (to allow multi vehicle select), filters (to refine the vehicles) and maybe a simple control system (send to depot, replace) actually inline with the vehicles result
02:59:49 <Yexo> you can use the "add all vehicles with shared orders to the group" but for that your vehicles need to have shared orders again
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05:20:41 <Absolutis> i'm getting this error with mac: Message: Assertion failed at line 125 of /usr/src/OpenTTD/compile/src/pathfinder/yapf/../follow_track.hpp: ((TrackStatusToTrackdirBits(GetTileTrackStatus(m_old_tile, TT(), IsRoadTT() && m_veh != NULL ? RoadVehicle::From(m_veh)->compatible_roadtypes : 0)) & TrackdirToTrackdirBits(m_old_td)) != 0) || (IsTram() && GetSingleTramBi
05:21:07 <tt1314> what signal do i use to let my train leave when the second furthest away signal is green?
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07:41:51 <Nite> some nice citybuilding server would be right now ...
07:42:44 <andythenorth> I suppose a third company colour is out of the question?
07:48:04 <Absolutis> hmm, anyone knows anywhing about my error:
07:48:29 <Absolutis> Absolutis i'm getting this error with mac: Message: Assertion failed at line 125 of /usr/src/OpenTTD/compile/src/pathfinder/yapf/../follow_track.hpp: ((TrackStatusToTrackdirBits(GetTileTrackStatus(m_old_tile, TT(), IsRoadTT() && m_veh != NULL ? RoadVehicle::From(m_veh)->compatible_roadtypes : 0)) & TrackdirToTrackdirBits(m_old_td)) != 0) || (IsTram() && GetSi
07:49:59 <Absolutis> hmm, that might be because of missing GRFs too...
07:51:12 <LordAro> report it anyway - if you ask me, ottd should not crash under any circumstances, and you never know, someone might fix it! :)
07:53:09 <Absolutis> also, the missing GRF was a station grf
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08:49:43 <Terkhen> good morning planetmaker
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09:49:05 <planetmaker> seeing your comparison, andythenorth_ the refurbished FISH ships look much nicer :-)
09:50:13 <planetmaker> especially the new river boat sprites are IMHO a definitive win
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09:53:44 <Nite> i have to come back to this as iam looking for a more planned out MP game
09:54:21 <Nite> are bans on the openttdcoop welcome server absolutely permanent?
09:57:39 <planetmaker> Unless we say otherwise: yes. Experience told us that its more trouble than gain to do otherwise
09:59:57 <Nite> ok then i will never try again.
10:00:25 <planetmaker> you got my private mail?
10:00:41 <Nite> any other nice new coop(ish) servers mabee?
10:01:12 <Nite> no, i got no private contacts regarding ottd.
10:01:29 <planetmaker> then get a better IRC client
10:02:11 <planetmaker> as I sent it to you 4 minutes ago...
10:02:59 <Nite> oh - maybe because iam still not registred in this irc
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10:09:36 <andythenorth_> simon foster seems to have been quite generous with the lighting direction(s) in ttd sprites :)
10:09:53 <andythenorth_> the more I look, the more lighting directions I find :D
10:11:12 <andythenorth_> the most common seems to be from RHS or TRHS
10:11:15 <andythenorth_> but there are others :P
10:12:38 <andythenorth_> the trains appear to be lit mostly from LHS
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10:16:07 <Alberth> openttd rotates around several suns
10:16:28 <tt1314> you need host servers?
10:17:02 <Alberth> you mean machines that host MP games?
10:17:42 <tt1314> lol, theres a dedicated server!
10:17:51 <tt1314> sorry, just found out about that
10:17:52 <Alberth> not really, we already have more hosts than players. We DO need moderated MP games though
10:17:53 <Nite> it does what "rotate ..." what?
10:18:44 <Nite> for me there about 5 servers that are to my likeings
10:19:01 <Alberth> Nite: any commented on the many directions of sunlight, having more than one sun solves that problem nicely
10:19:08 <Nite> there are much servers that just lay there with boring or even bad settings
10:20:21 <Nite> wonders about the sunlight metapha, and has no idea at all ...
10:21:04 <Alberth> look closely on where the light and dark parts of the houses, industries, trains, etc are
10:21:44 <Alberth> it would be a miracle if it was consistent across all NewGRFs :)
10:23:06 <LordAro> i know that it's (supposed to be) consistent across 32bpp graphics (more noticeable i suppose)
10:24:55 <Nite> ok oyu mean the "lightning", which is not alightning at all, drawn directly on bitmaps is like there would be a seperate sun for every tile on the map
10:29:42 * Alberth has no problem with > 4000000 suns at all
10:30:59 <planetmaker> there are about 10**11 galaxies with 10**11 suns each. Or something like that ;-)
10:36:51 <Nite> to be silly exactly htere is a max of 4194304 suns ... ;P
10:38:08 <Alberth> no, just is just the tiles, you miss the trains, industries, houses, boats, aircraft, etc
10:38:20 <PolymorphZ> who likes CPLD-s ?
10:38:27 <Alberth> planetmaker: around one planet?
10:38:46 <planetmaker> all revolves around Earth. Already the bible knows that.
10:39:35 <Nite> you made a point there alberth
10:40:15 <Nite> but then some suns must have the ability to follow vehicles exactly
10:40:17 <PolymorphZ> thought it was 2 147 483 648
10:40:30 <Alberth> planetmaker: going well with your studies? :)
10:40:33 <planetmaker> nah, it's unsigned, PolymorphZ
10:40:45 <Nite> and dont forget the night newgrf ... :p (i liked that)
10:40:54 <PolymorphZ> ttd underflowed there :)
10:41:18 <planetmaker> hehe. "The new world view" ;-)
10:41:22 <Alberth> not possible, it is an integer world
10:42:49 <Nite> 2 147 483 648 where you draw that number from - is that the max sprite count in ottd?
10:43:45 <PolymorphZ> yep you earn this much in ttd, and then underflows, and will become negative
10:45:12 <Alberth> Nite: it is (2**31)-1
10:45:38 <Alberth> and in OpenTTD you need a LOT more money than that, if it is possible at all
10:45:42 <PolymorphZ> when i discovered that im having too much money i had to burn some so it dont underflow ;>>
10:46:43 <Nite> well when you have so much money resetitng to zero wouldn't mather because you earn so quick ...
10:46:47 <Mazur> Oh, nice, dog makes a brown spot in the white blanket on the walk and grass.
10:47:10 <planetmaker> thank you for sharing, Mazur
10:47:12 <PolymorphZ> Nite: sure, but it suddenly became -(2^31)
10:47:16 <Mazur> Methinks it's time for bow practice.
10:47:21 <Alberth> I don't think it is called underflow, underflow is when you have a small number > 0, but less than the smallest positive floating point number
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10:48:21 <PolymorphZ> so overflow, then coming up from negative ?
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10:50:02 <Alberth> it happens because (2^31)-1 is the biggest number such that bit 31 is still 0. If you add more, bit 31 becomes 1, and that means you have a negative value
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10:50:45 <PolymorphZ> too bad it sees as negative, then i got bankrupt ;>
10:51:34 <Alberth> at some point the government has to take over :p
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10:59:47 <Nite> is the game paused while players are busy typing (or rather remembering) their password when directly joining into an existing company?
11:01:05 <PolymorphZ> game is paused while joining
11:01:09 <Nite> yes you usually type passwords
11:01:35 <PolymorphZ> you give password then download starts no?
11:01:59 <Nite> yes but - is the typing in the password dialog part of teh joining process in a way taht the game is paused while doing this
11:02:19 <planetmaker> the answer is a clear: depends
11:02:56 <Nite> well i guess i have to try it somehow
11:03:12 <PolymorphZ> password is only for joining company
11:03:18 <PolymorphZ> you can join as spectator
11:03:24 <PolymorphZ> and then join with password
11:03:32 <planetmaker> you can also password-protect the entire server, PolymorphZ ;-)
11:03:33 <PolymorphZ> so its no matter before or after
11:03:38 <Nite> i know all that polymorphZ
11:04:07 <PolymorphZ> also, password can be sent as hash
11:04:34 <PolymorphZ> if you are concerned about harvesting them
11:05:04 <Nite> so when someone joins via the game lobby the game is not be paused until the password is entered? true?
11:05:35 <Alberth> Nite: run a server and a client to join at the same machine, and try it
11:05:51 <Nite> u r right alberth gotta try it
11:06:24 <Alberth> I fail to see the relevance of it though
11:06:29 <PolymorphZ> well taht seems straightforward
11:08:16 <Wolf01> maybe he is worried about DOS attacks to his server, performed by trying to join a protected company and waiting
11:09:42 <PolymorphZ> howabout bruteforcing passwords?
11:10:26 <PolymorphZ> like 10 tries then denied for 10 mins ?
11:11:04 <PolymorphZ> but anything can be dosed if open
11:11:56 <Wolf01> a worst problem could be to connect and disconnect multiple times as spectator instead of trying to guess the password
11:12:23 <Wolf01> each time you need to synch the map and the server pauses
11:12:27 <Nite> the relevance is that it would be bad because if you would never enter a password the gaem would be paused forever
11:13:05 <Nite> the game is not paused while entering the pw. (to answer my own question)
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11:35:57 <andythenorth_> new FISH on bananas
11:41:12 <__ln__> how many people can be fed with two FISH and five bananas?
11:55:25 <lugo> andythenorth_, well how is it going with the lime kiln and forgery from firs?
11:55:37 <andythenorth_> not at the moment
11:55:44 <andythenorth_> today is not a day for drawing industry :)
11:55:50 <andythenorth_> maybe they can get fixed soon
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13:44:34 <CIA-2> OpenTTD: alberth * r21539 /trunk/src/terraform_gui.cpp: -Fix [FS#4315]: Show 'plant trees' button lowering of terraform toolbar.
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13:54:41 <michi_cc> (oh, and excluding the latest commit :)
13:56:11 <LordAro> michi_cc: thanks... more updating to do... :) can i ask where/how you got that, so it's easier for me to update later?
13:57:49 <michi_cc> ' git log --all --pretty=short | git shortlog -n -s' on a git svn clone of the whole repository, but if you don't have shell access to the server getting the clone is damn slow :)
13:59:16 <LordAro> i think i might just leave it where it is for now - at least until i have access to a computer where i can install git :)
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14:00:18 <Alberth> I thought you were counting contributions by non-devs ?
14:00:57 <LordAro> done that now - or at least all the ones i could be bothered to find :)
14:01:51 <Alberth> you should also mention the revision upto where you counted, so updating is easier leater
14:04:23 <LordAro> i've mentioned date and time, so it shouldn't be *too* difficult...
14:22:43 <LordAro> which would you say is best to use?
14:24:13 <SmatZ> LordAro: ohloh scans only trunk
14:24:32 <SmatZ> if that exaplains anything
14:24:50 <frosch123> the ohloh numbers are higher though :p
14:24:58 <frosch123> maybe peter only took trunk/src
14:25:10 <frosch123> anyway, the differences are minor
14:25:29 <LordAro> so ohloh would be the better one?
14:26:07 <frosch123> just do some rounding :p
14:26:49 <LordAro> i'm gonna take that as a yes, btw. unless anyone has objections?
14:27:37 <SmatZ> LordAro: what do you need those numbers for?
14:27:45 <Ammler> LordAro: hunks are more descriptive, imo
14:28:51 <frosch123> SmatZ: for an e-penis compendium
14:29:03 <SmatZ> $ cat /mnt/svn/openttd/svn_log | grep '^r[0-9]' | cut -f 2 -d\| | sort -c
14:30:02 <SmatZ> sort: -:2: disorder: planetmaker
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14:30:25 <SmatZ> too many lines probably...
14:30:49 <frosch123> LordAro: use the numbers from pastebin. at least one can check them, noone knows what ohloh count
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14:32:14 <frosch123> hmm, btw. my statistics from yesterday only contatined contributions up to 20444... i forgot some hg pull or so :s
14:32:41 <SmatZ> bah, it's uniq -c, not sort -c
14:32:56 <SmatZ> $ cat /mnt/svn/openttd/svn_log | grep '^r[0-9]' | cut -f 2 -d\| | cut -c 2- | sort | uniq -c
14:35:35 <SmatZ> still, ohloh gives me 974 commits
14:35:47 <SmatZ> and in my paste, I got just 959
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14:39:32 <SmatZ> frosch123: what is that?
14:39:57 <frosch123> SmatZ: number of times a nickname was mentioned in a commit message
14:40:19 <frosch123> i.e. "patch by", "thanks to", "complaint at" ...
14:48:19 <SmatZ> We have temporarily limited all access to sensitive account features in our E-mail accounts. In order to restore your account access, you need to reply to this email immediately with your
14:48:20 <SmatZ> username:(______________) and password:(_______________).
14:49:22 <LordAro> i think you should ;)
14:50:40 <frosch123> SmatZ: must be fake, they did not ask for your bank details
14:52:31 <LordAro> frosch123: if i use the pastebin, can you put it somewhere updateable (paste.openttdcoop.org?), so i can reference it on the page
14:53:34 <frosch123> LordAro: problem with that paste is, that it relies on a somewhat manually created list of nicknames
14:53:41 <frosch123> that they sometimes use different spellings,
14:53:50 <frosch123> and that some nicknames are not greppable
14:54:02 <frosch123> because they match common english words
14:54:09 <Ammler> :-o are you able to update the paste?
14:54:51 <SmatZ> I use it, so it must be good :P
14:55:00 <SmatZ> also, it makes my e-penis bigger, as frosch123 mentioned
14:55:53 <frosch123> SmatZ: we did not agree on a unit yet, pm suggest gigaangstroms, but imo that is a bit much :p
14:56:54 <SmatZ> 1 angstrom = 1.0 × 10-10 meters
14:58:35 <LordAro> planck length = 1.616252 × 10−35 meters ;)
14:59:07 <frosch123> so, even yotta planck length is not suitable
15:00:19 <LordAro> we need to invent a new unit :)
15:00:39 <frosch123> maybe logarithmic gigaangstroms
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15:10:06 * LordAro wonders on the possibility of taking content from ohloh and putting it on the wiki, realtime
15:10:17 <LordAro> anyone know what to search for?
15:10:27 <PolymorphZ> put twitter to wikipedia
15:15:12 <LordAro> number of commits, for example
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15:17:59 <Alberth> just link to the site
15:18:28 <LordAro> so there's no easy way? thought so :)
15:19:44 <andythenorth> Alberth: is the latest solution to groups / consists a brain interface? :o
15:20:11 <LordAro> (another update to the wiki page btw....)
15:20:40 <Alberth> andythenorth: that would make groups trivial, won't it :)
15:21:32 <LordAro> Alberth: it would save having to update it so often though ;)
15:21:59 <andythenorth> Alberth: depends how well organised your brain is
15:22:13 <andythenorth> I think it could still be a faff managing stuff via thought
15:22:15 <Alberth> LordAro: I find such counts totally completely utterly useless
15:22:52 <LordAro> i think i'll take a break from that page now anyway...
15:23:45 <Alberth> LordAro: getting a high count is trivial: while True do commit change; revert change done
15:24:18 <Alberth> LordAro: ie you should count the amount of thought that went into a commit
15:24:46 <andythenorth> LordAro: use the new brain interface to do that
15:24:53 <andythenorth> it's in the latest nightl
15:25:42 <Alberth> andythenorth: bummer, you found it already
15:26:09 <LordAro> well you've got the when the developer started on the project ;)
15:26:10 * Alberth dumps yet another world domination into /dev/null
15:26:30 <LordAro> andythenorth: brain interface?
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15:28:00 <LordAro> Alberth: btw, a search for what 'tmwftlb', the first 3 entries are tt-forums! :)
15:43:45 <LordAro> i found brain interface :D
15:56:27 <Zuu> When did the substity fix happen? In 1.0.5 is substites linked to stations or towns/industries?
15:57:37 <frosch123> i think that is a 1.0 change
15:58:58 <frosch123> yup, noai api changelog lists it under 1.0
16:09:32 <Hirundo> andythenorth: do you just need to transport farm/eng supplies, or is a certain transportation % required as well to increase production?
16:10:17 <V453000> afaik, it is just delivered Y/N
16:16:01 <andythenorth> Hirundo: currently just delivered supplies
16:16:13 <andythenorth> there is a desire from players to change it to % transportation as well
16:16:23 <andythenorth> I don't like that, but players get what players want :P
16:18:50 <V453000> I think % would be quite unmanageable
16:18:56 <V453000> because productions change
16:19:27 <V453000> but I agree that it should be somehow rewarded when you deliver more
16:20:30 <andythenorth> and also 8 tile trains shouldn't be able to go into a 1 tile depot :D
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16:30:47 <Eddi|zuHause> BECAUSE IT'S NOT REALISTIC!!!
16:43:14 <Eddi|zuHause> oooh... "snowstorm warning: people shouldn't plan on driving anywhere tomorrow" :p
16:45:42 <Alberth> we could use a new disaster: snowstorm, shutdown all forms of transport :)
16:46:10 <FauxFaux> s/snowstorm/light snow/ if you're playing on the UK map.
16:46:10 <Alberth> preferably everything gets white first :)
16:51:30 <Eddi|zuHause> Alberth: needs a desaster beforehand: "neoconservative government"
16:52:51 <Eddi|zuHause> i mean... we had REAL winters 30 years ago, but nobody complained about a "snow chaos", and the railway ran properly...
16:53:55 <Eddi|zuHause> but nowadays it's all about "we save money here if we cut down $margin_of_error"... and obviously the whole system breaks down on the slightest interruption
16:56:03 <__ln__> but 30 years ago men were real men and little green creatures from Alpha Centauri were real fuzzy little green creatures from Alpha Centauri
16:57:10 <Eddi|zuHause> ok, back then people rarely got to work by car...
16:57:25 <Eddi|zuHause> and the emphasis on railway was probably higher
16:59:39 <Zuu> Back then the agenda here was to close down as many rail lines as possible.
16:59:41 <frosch123> i would guess 40 years ago there were less commuters
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17:05:47 <Eddi|zuHause> frosch123: there were lots of commuters 30 years ago.
17:06:07 <Eddi|zuHause> frosch123: we had probably the highest capacity passenger trains in the world
17:06:40 <__ln__> so... can we have a new mode for OpenTTD where you are given a map-wide rail network and trains, and your goal is to close down as many lines as possible?
17:10:35 <fjb> That mode enables itself in the early 1980s.
17:11:20 <Eddi|zuHause> i think the first major wave of line closing began already in the 50s and 60s
17:11:28 * andythenorth likes the 'close routes' game
17:11:40 <andythenorth> first orginal suggestion I've seen in months :P
17:11:51 <Eddi|zuHause> but the reason for that was mainly that busses got more efficient
17:12:01 <andythenorth> but only ship it if it also comes with 'build underground' and 'lights in tunnels'
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17:50:30 <fjb> Moin DanMacK and Grüezi Ammler.
18:45:44 <CIA-2> OpenTTD: translators * r21540 /trunk/src/lang/ (5 files):
18:45:44 <CIA-2> OpenTTD: -Update from WebTranslator v3.0:
18:45:44 <CIA-2> OpenTTD: bulgarian - 20 changes by Tvel
18:45:44 <CIA-2> OpenTTD: czech - 91 changes by SmatZ
18:45:44 <CIA-2> OpenTTD: finnish - 1 changes by USephiroth
18:45:44 <CIA-2> OpenTTD: hungarian - 90 changes by IPG
18:45:44 <CIA-2> OpenTTD: indonesian - 33 changes by fanioz
19:07:43 <Eddi|zuHause> oh man Alühn 2 is a crazy game... :p
19:10:11 <__ln__> attention, Minecraft is still Alpha today, but tomorrow it'll be Beta and will cost more, and no promise of free updates.
19:11:21 <frosch123> are you suggesting to do the same for ottd? :p
19:12:18 <Eddi|zuHause> let's call it "Gamma".
19:12:39 <Eddi|zuHause> or "Home Personal Ultimate"
20:15:45 <CIA-2> OpenTTD: smatz * r21541 /trunk/src/ (strings.cpp table/strgen_tables.h): -Add: {DATE_SHORT} and {DATE_LONG} can now have cases
20:44:26 *** ChanServ sets mode: +v tokai
21:01:28 <LordAro> prefer ddr3 though ;)
21:02:47 <PolymorphZ> openttd is fast with ddr3 memory @ 1333MHz dual channel
21:03:23 <LordAro> and yeah, guess it would be
21:03:37 <PolymorphZ> i remember there is gddr-5
21:03:59 <PolymorphZ> some warp speed stuff used for video ram
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22:12:07 <trebuchet> PolymorphZ: OpenTTD actually utilizes and has user-noticeable speed improvements with that speed of DDR3?
22:14:18 <Eddi|zuHause> trebuchet: if anything, openttd can make use of fast RAM.
22:14:47 <Eddi|zuHause> any sane map is too large to fit into cache, and the map is processed periodically
22:15:09 <Eddi|zuHause> so all used RAM is accessed fairly frequently
22:17:12 <Eddi|zuHause> (the only thing that would have even more impact was faster single-core speed)
22:48:17 <Dante123> are there people here ?
22:48:40 * Dante123 calling to earth. please pick up :D
22:49:07 <SmatZ> do you have a question?
22:49:16 <Eddi|zuHause> what's an earth?
22:49:17 <Dante123> i need some feedback :p
22:49:55 <Dante123> but i think i can use some feedback on them from others
22:50:08 <Dante123> so shoot at it if you want to :)
22:51:30 <V453000> nice job with DWE :) btw the white tank that can be attached to pipelines looks weird
22:51:34 <V453000> otherwise it is quite nice :)
22:51:45 <Dante123> i think i should get rid of that middle gray line on the flatforms
22:51:54 <Dante123> whats weird on the tank ? :)
22:52:47 <Dante123> my intuition says me the scale of the rank with the scale of the pipeline ?
22:53:09 <V453000> idk, it seems to be a bit deformed to me
22:53:33 <V453000> maybe some more details would "hide" it
22:54:21 <V453000> but especially the fences are a nice idea imo :)
22:54:47 <Eddi|zuHause> a propos pipelines... a "bridge" over a road might be useful... [i.e. you place a station tile in front with the rising part and the overhead part, and a station tile behind with the lowering part, and they visually connect]
22:54:51 <Dante123> mm i see what is wrong with the tank
22:55:20 <Dante123> if i liik at ISR i see the round tank is drawn as a oval
22:55:32 <Dante123> in my set i took a circle for top and button
22:56:29 <Dante123> mm looking for more "round" sprites ingame to compare :P
22:56:58 <Eddi|zuHause> you need an oval with ratio 2:1
22:57:21 <Dante123> mm i should find some trick for that in photoshop
22:58:02 <Dante123> so i should keep width of the circle 100% and set height to 50% than it should be correct for ottd right ?
22:59:18 <Dante123> but any1 had some feedback on those platforms too ?
23:00:19 <V453000> not much to comment on I think
23:00:31 <V453000> they are too "empty" so far I would say
23:04:01 <Dante123> these should form the base for the industrial versions
23:04:35 <Dante123> the ones that will have cargo on it thatwill change dep on how much is waiting at that station
23:05:24 <Ammler> or just use railtype for pipeline
23:06:39 <Dante123> mm i dont know how to code that xD
23:07:08 <Dante123> but i released my grf as open copyright thing
23:09:05 <Dante123> ok the big white tanks have been put on the list for fixing :)
23:09:17 <Terkhen> that does not sound like a very accurate licensing
23:11:22 <Dante123> yea i forgot that name xD
23:11:29 <Dante123> yea its unther GPL 2
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