IRC logs for #openttd on OFTC at 2010-10-02
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00:58:57 <Lakie> Um, am I the only one having issues with object cb15C?
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01:06:21 <TruePikachu> Hmm...any major developments sinve 1.0.4?
01:06:37 <Lakie> objects support in trunk?
01:07:03 <TruePikachu> Oh. Well, I've been out of the community for a while
01:07:36 <Lakie> Theres probably quite a bit but I don't follow OpenTTD too closely to tell you. :)
01:07:41 <TruePikachu> Wait, what kind of objects? Objects in-game, or object-oriented objects a la C++
01:07:52 <Lakie> Um, newgrf objects, classA
01:08:28 * TruePikachu is glad he's SSHing from PuTTY under Windows
01:09:10 * Lakie inserts some more asserts to attempt to workout whats happening
01:09:27 <Lakie> Since it appears I cannot set breakpoints in vs
01:10:01 <TruePikachu> Wait, so now we should be able to build objects under bridges?
01:10:23 <TruePikachu> I mean, like bridge OVER a station
01:10:43 <glx> stations are stations, not objects
01:12:07 <TruePikachu> Oh...well, bridges over industries?
01:13:43 <TruePikachu> Hmmm...so, are these objects going to work kind of like objects in Sims, where each object gets it's own behaviour, instead of using the map array?
01:14:22 <Lakie> Objects are refered to as "eye candy"
01:14:39 <Lakie> In essence tile(s) which are used purely for decoration
01:15:04 <TruePikachu> And that's it? We're just adding ee candy?
01:15:39 <Lakie> Well, thats newgrf "objects", yes
01:16:32 <TruePikachu> So, basically, looking at the past few developments I've seen, trunk is currently working on improving NewGRF compatability?
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01:29:22 <glx> objects are a new newgrf feature
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05:49:27 <Carci> I'm feeling kinda proud of how this little map's turning out. :D
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08:01:07 <peter1138> So... ext4 vs xfs...?
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08:54:33 <dihedral> why on earth this that new patch packs size over 7MB for a linux build?
09:02:26 <Alberth> just download the patch, and build yourself :)
09:18:34 <Rubidium> because it contains the original graphics and such?
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09:29:05 <Rubidium> peter1138: what do you want to use the file system on? A server with jails?
09:29:31 <Rubidium> in that case I'd suggest one of the reiserfs-es ;)
09:31:21 <peter1138> no, just /home on my home pc
09:34:53 * Rubidium never conciously looked into the real differences between ext[234] and xfs; I'm personally using ext4 by now, though openttd's server uses xfs
09:35:28 <Rubidium> seems like zernebok uses reiserfs
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09:39:16 <Rubidium> do you want to has file creation timestamps, use ext4. Do you want to be able to resize while the FS is mounted, use xfs
09:40:25 <__ln__> do + has = bjarni grammar
09:40:35 <Rubidium> oh... didn't know that for ext[234] a binary doesn't need to be loaded into RAM to be executed
09:41:07 <Rubidium> but then xfs has snapshots and ext[234] doesn't
09:47:07 <CIA-2> OpenTTD: alberth * r20862 /trunk/src/pathfinder/npf/ (aystar.cpp aystar.h): -Codechange: Make AyStar_Free() a method.
09:48:16 <CIA-2> OpenTTD: alberth * r20863 /trunk/src/pathfinder/npf/ (aystar.cpp aystar.h): -Codechange: Make AyStarMain_Loop a method.
09:48:22 <__ln__> A method? Is that Java?
09:48:33 <Alberth> c++ also has methods :)
09:49:46 <CIA-2> OpenTTD: alberth * r20864 /trunk/src/pathfinder/npf/ (aystar.cpp aystar.h npf.cpp): -Codechange: Make AyStar_Clear() a method.
09:49:53 <__ln__> C++ has member functions
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09:52:37 <Alberth> Stroustrup says they are also called "method"
09:53:59 <CIA-2> OpenTTD: alberth * r20865 /trunk/src/pathfinder/npf/ (aystar.cpp aystar.h): -Codechange: Make AyStarMain_CheckTile() a method.
09:54:33 <Rubidium> oh booh... my guess what the next commit would be was wrong :(
09:55:23 <Rubidium> although the diff looks somewhat funky
09:55:56 * Rubidium is just looking at the wrong lines of the diff
09:56:12 <CIA-2> OpenTTD: alberth * r20866 /trunk/src/pathfinder/npf/ (aystar.cpp aystar.h): -Codechange: CheckTile() always returns the same (ignored) value.
09:58:46 <Alberth> no worries, the next two are again predictable :)
09:58:50 <CIA-2> OpenTTD: alberth * r20867 /trunk/src/pathfinder/npf/ (aystar.cpp aystar.h npf.cpp): -Codechange: Make AyStarMain_AddStartNode() a method.
10:00:24 <CIA-2> OpenTTD: alberth * r20868 /trunk/src/pathfinder/npf/ (aystar.cpp aystar.h npf.cpp): -Codechange: Make AyStarMain_Main() a method.
10:01:14 <TrueBrain> woei, someone is C++-ifying my and blathijs' work :D
10:04:00 * Alberth looks for more code changes (but first some food)
10:05:41 <Alberth> TrueBrain: a few weeks ago I c++-ified the binary heap, and came across this code too.
10:06:03 <Alberth> at the time I still had hope that people would have more interest in my industry creation patch :)
10:06:04 <TrueBrain> also from the same author's ;)
10:06:23 <Alberth> style is the same, so that was to be expected :)
10:07:22 <TrueBrain> very very old code :)
10:07:24 <Alberth> although why you setup pointers to the 'methods' is still a mystery, as there are no other cases
10:07:42 <TrueBrain> in that time it was 'hot'
10:08:40 <Rubidium> portability or reuseability?
10:14:45 <Alberth> how are the open dunes doing?
10:15:28 <TrueBrain> got side-tracked so often, I lost count :)
10:16:34 <Rubidium> 14 commits in 4 months
10:17:09 <Alberth> that qualifies as 'slow' indeed :)
10:17:38 <Rubidium> 26 in the last 4 months for TTDPatch
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11:57:40 <G> quick question, does PBS take into account distance to the end signal?
11:59:51 <Alberth> I don't even see how that could be relevant
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12:00:28 <Alberth> you are going to need x tiles to the destination, how could it be relevant in which block they are?
12:01:09 <G> good point, specifically in my example this is to a station, so it'd also be a shorter path to the station
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12:03:23 <Alberth> distance to the target *is* taken into account :)
12:04:37 <Ammler> afaik, it does use end signal for penalty calculation
12:04:59 <Ammler> you see that well, if you use 2way eol
12:05:48 <Alberth> You can open the openttd.cfg file in a text editor, to see all settings
12:06:17 <G> setting rail_look_ahead_signal_p1 to -90 seems to have helped
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12:24:23 <Luukland> Mr. dihedral :) Have you yet forwarded our comments on the new competition algorithm?
12:26:03 <peter1138> Whose EULA did you copy for your guidelines text? Hah
12:54:37 <Rubidium> oh, that EULA. Still have to make a choice whether to prevent my not-a-proper-OpenTTD-client applications from connecting to those servers
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13:22:45 <Ammler> Luukland: where have you placed your comments?
13:22:57 <Ammler> maybe you better post those on forums or fs
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13:55:19 <Lnd> quick question : is there a way to do multiple copies/clones of a vehicle at once ? (when you want to do 20 trucks copies for instance)
13:57:47 <Lnd> (oh nice, i have a forest with 6 sawmills just nearby :s ...)
14:02:58 <peter1138> just click clone 20 times...
14:05:13 <G> peter1138: the only thing w/ that is you suddenly get 20 little windows that you likely didn't want :)
14:06:45 * Eddi|zuHause remembers the time when building the 7th vehicle closes the depot window
14:09:36 <Eddi|zuHause> so... what does one do while the system installs?
14:10:03 <Rubidium> ssh to your server and talk a bit or IRC
14:10:18 <Eddi|zuHause> i need a way to magically switch my mouse to control two PCs
14:10:58 <Eddi|zuHause> i don't need ssh (yet) to get to the "server"
14:11:07 <Rubidium> ssh to your server and write a chapter of your master thesis; after all that's written with LaTeX
14:11:14 <G> Eddi|zuHause: if you've got multiple monitors, use Synergy
14:11:29 <Eddi|zuHause> G: i have one monitor with two inputs
14:11:47 <Eddi|zuHause> DVI (new computer) and D-SUB (old computer)
14:11:55 <Eddi|zuHause> i have two keyboards, but only one mouse
14:12:10 <G> guess you could still use synergy
14:12:38 <Eddi|zuHause> well... i have a mini-joystick-kind-of-thingie-that-is-treated-like-a-mouse as well, but that's kinda weird to use
14:13:08 <SpComb> and you're wrong, they're awesome
14:14:11 <Eddi|zuHause> SpComb: i don't know what you think this is, but the directions of movement are wrong... you need to hold it the wrong way around
14:15:15 <SpComb> possibly fixable in software
14:15:41 <Eddi|zuHause> and the cable is too short
14:23:25 <Eddi|zuHause> synergy looks fine... just i have no way to automatically switch the monitor input
14:29:58 <ccfreak2k> I use Synergy between my desktop and netbook.
14:31:32 <Eddi|zuHause> i have a feeling they have server and client mixed up...
14:31:32 <CIA-2> OpenTTD: rubidium * r20869 /branches/1.0/src/ (5 files in 2 dirs):
14:31:32 <CIA-2> OpenTTD: [1.0] -Backport from trunk:
14:31:32 <CIA-2> OpenTTD: - Fix: [NewGRF] Assert when an industry previously build on water was flooded because its NewGRF changed/is missing [FS#4112] (r20754)
14:31:32 <CIA-2> OpenTTD: - Fix: Do not use new game settings when creating many random towns/industries in the scenario editor [FS#4094] (r20712, r20711)
14:31:33 <CIA-2> OpenTTD: - Fix: Graphic glitch when switching to a different-sized font while the chat message box was visible (r20705)
14:31:33 <CIA-2> OpenTTD: - Fix: Vehicle lists of non-trains could not resize horizontally causing truncation of texts [FS#4123, FS#3955] (r20174)
14:34:18 <CIA-2> OpenTTD: rubidium * r20870 /branches/1.0/src/ (4 files in 4 dirs):
14:34:18 <CIA-2> OpenTTD: [1.0] -Backport from trunk:
14:34:18 <CIA-2> OpenTTD: - Fix: Building 2x2 houses did not work for 2x2 road layouts on all map sizes (r20791)
14:34:18 <CIA-2> OpenTTD: - Fix: [NewGRF] Remove a check which is wrong for NewGRF houses and serves no use for original houses [FS#4118] (r20790)
14:34:18 <CIA-2> OpenTTD: - Fix: Spelling mistake in slovak real town names (r20787)
14:34:19 <CIA-2> OpenTTD: - Fix: Do autosave-on-exit as well when using kill/CTRL-C to terminate a dedicated OpenTTD (r20783)
14:34:21 <CIA-2> OpenTTD: - Fix: [NoAI] AIEventCompanyAskMerger was disguised as AIEventCompanyMerger (r20765)
14:41:38 <CIA-2> OpenTTD: rubidium * r20871 /branches/1.0/src/ (ai/api/ai_tile.hpp house.h newgrf.cpp newgrf_engine.cpp):
14:41:38 <CIA-2> OpenTTD: [1.0] -Backport from trunk:
14:41:38 <CIA-2> OpenTTD: - Fix: [NewGRF] Clamp/convert some vehicle variables so NewGRFs get their specified range (r20800, r20799, r20795)
14:41:38 <CIA-2> OpenTTD: - Fix: [NoAI] Document that AITile::HasTransportType does not work for TRANSPORT_AIR [FS#4117] (r20798)
14:41:38 <CIA-2> OpenTTD: - Fix: [NewGRF] Disable houses without a size that are available according to their building flags (r20797)
14:41:39 <CIA-2> OpenTTD: - Fix: [NewGRF] Make sure all houses in the house spec array are valid. It was possible that part of a multitile house was not copied because the array was full (r20796)
14:41:58 <Eddi|zuHause> ideally i'd like to have a virtual windows on tty8 and a remote connection to my "server" on tty9
14:48:50 <Alberth> you can run several X servers at the same time
14:51:48 <CIA-2> OpenTTD: rubidium * r20872 /branches/1.0/src/ (11 files in 2 dirs):
14:51:48 <CIA-2> OpenTTD: [1.0] -Backport from trunk:
14:51:48 <CIA-2> OpenTTD: - Fix: Road/water toolbars did not get updated when the first vehicle of their type becomes available [FS#4141] (r20856)
14:51:48 <CIA-2> OpenTTD: - Fix: Smallmap legend buttons must all be equal in size, even if their contents is not (r20851)
14:51:48 <CIA-2> OpenTTD: - Fix: Deadlock when aborting map generation on Windows [FS#3707] (r20822)
14:51:49 <CIA-2> OpenTTD: - Fix: Be a bit more lenient w.r.t. invalid savegames; do not crash on saveload related NOT_REACHEDs, just show the user an error that the savegame is corrupted [FS#3714] (r20819)
14:51:51 <CIA-2> OpenTTD: - Fix: Make the crash-on-saveload message clearer and more correct [FS#3791] (r20818)
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15:15:43 <andythenorth_> Alberth: anyone else testing the industry patch?
15:16:10 <andythenorth_> ship it anyway :P
15:16:48 <Alberth> everybody seems too busy hacking and playing random patch packs
15:17:04 <andythenorth_> maybe no-one plays any more :)
15:18:22 <Alberth> I am wondering whether to join the enemy, and ask Chillcore to include the patch :p
15:19:49 <Ammler> Alberth: you have access to a "bigger" patch pack ;-)
15:19:58 <Ammler> some call it trunk :-)
15:22:13 <SpComb> sounds pretty arbitrary
15:22:15 <Rubidium> Ammler: any patchpack based on trunk is a bigger patch pack than trunk
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15:22:29 <SpComb> how is this "trunk" thing organized?
15:23:14 <Ammler> Rubidium: also true :-P
15:24:02 <Eddi|zuHause> hm... something's wrong with my network...
15:24:29 <Eddi|zuHause> as far as i can see, cable connectivity is fine, but pinging doesn't work
15:24:55 <Rubidium> Eddi|zuHause: what OS?
15:25:10 <Rubidium> SpComb: it's just adding patches on patches
15:25:15 <Rubidium> not really organised
15:25:26 <Eddi|zuHause> local network should not be firewalled
15:25:47 <andythenorth_> Alberth: industry code is bonkers anyway....just add some more to the madness :)
15:25:47 <GhostlyDeath> Eddi|zuHause: Are you on the correct network?
15:26:12 <GhostlyDeath> Add a Jail Industry
15:26:22 <GhostlyDeath> Cities and Towns provide Criminals
15:26:28 <GhostlyDeath> Jail accepts prisoners
15:26:36 <GhostlyDeath> and supplies passengers
15:27:09 <Eddi|zuHause> both devices are set up as 192.168.10.x
15:27:09 <GhostlyDeath> Have it appear when everyone hates your company because you got bad ratings
15:27:19 <Eddi|zuHause> where x is 1 or 2
15:27:23 <GhostlyDeath> Eddi|zuHause: Connected to a router?
15:27:39 <Eddi|zuHause> connected to a switch, no router. 1 is the router
15:27:44 <SpComb> GhostlyDeath: the correct place for those is the suggestions forum, where they are appropriately ignored :)
15:27:57 <Eddi|zuHause> 1 would be the router, if it was reachable
15:28:01 <GhostlyDeath> I had trouble sleeping last night
15:28:10 <GhostlyDeath> Everytime I closed my eyes I saw OpenTTD
15:28:43 <__ln__> GhostlyDeath: with original graphics or opengfx?
15:29:38 <GhostlyDeath> Buses would be more useful
15:29:48 <GhostlyDeath> Instead of just transporting passengers, they can transport prisoners too
15:30:58 <GhostlyDeath> SpComb: Are the two computers far away?
15:31:43 <GhostlyDeath> router connected to switch with 50 footer, switch connected to pc with 50 footer?
15:31:54 <Alberth> alternatively, you can code a newgrf with that functionality
15:32:41 <__ln__> GhostlyDeath: are there prisons?
15:32:54 <GhostlyDeath> In real life there are
15:34:58 <Alberth> NML is as close as you are going to get to C currently
15:35:17 <Alberth> luckily RL is not a design goal for OpenTTD :)
15:35:50 <__ln__> GhostlyDeath: are there crimes in OpenTTD?
15:36:12 <GhostlyDeath> No, but you can add crime by making towns provide criminals
15:37:09 <__ln__> wouldn't that require a courthouse that provides criminals
15:37:48 <GhostlyDeath> would just be another building
15:42:28 * andythenorth_ ponders FIRS cargo chains :|
15:44:13 <Eddi|zuHause> i think i managed it...
15:44:24 <Eddi|zuHause> this setup thingie totally messed up the bridge configuration
15:44:43 <Eddi|zuHause> as in, it set up a bridge, but didn't add any devices into it
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15:48:26 <Alberth> andythenorth_: stop pondering, bring it to a 'finished' state instead :)
15:49:01 <Eddi|zuHause> anybody having a decent suggestion for replacing kaffeine? (as in, a program that can both do TV and video)
15:50:56 <Eddi|zuHause> it says gnome...
15:51:28 <GhostlyDeath> You don't need KDE to run KDE apps, you don't need GNOME to run GNOME apps
15:52:02 <Eddi|zuHause> yes, but i don't put a pink roof on a yellow car either...
15:52:26 <GhostlyDeath> So you are limiting yourself to what fits in
15:52:51 <Eddi|zuHause> not limit, but prefer...
15:53:04 <GhostlyDeath> You can alwayse use QT-looks or something
15:53:11 <GhostlyDeath> makes GTK apps look like Qt
15:54:01 <GhostlyDeath> All it does is intercept GTK drawing calls and uses QT's drawing functions instead
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16:01:25 <Eddi|zuHause> any other suggestions?
16:08:53 <Ammler> Eddi|zuHause: why you need one app for both?
16:09:18 <Ammler> just use smplayer, kaffeine, vlc at once :-)
16:10:01 <Ammler> vlc is imo still best for streaming things
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16:13:49 <GhostlyDeath> The new vlc sucks
16:14:22 <GhostlyDeath> They changed the interface to make it look all flashy
16:14:47 <Eddi|zuHause> Ammler: at least on my old computer, having two programs which need xv doesn't work
16:15:02 <Eddi|zuHause> and unaccelerated video really sucks
16:15:20 <Eddi|zuHause> and closing one app to start the other really sucks even more
16:15:24 <Ammler> I have also quite a old desktop for tv
16:15:34 <Ammler> if something doesn't work, with vlc it will
16:16:05 <Eddi|zuHause> and i don't need streaming
16:16:44 <GhostlyDeath> Get a media player that doesn't support MPEG, MP3, or OGG
16:17:23 <Ammler> but the box doesn't tune self, that is done by Dreambox
16:17:47 <GhostlyDeath> this computer has a TV tuner but I don't watch TV on it
16:17:53 <Eddi|zuHause> yes, and i have a box that does tune...
16:18:10 <Eddi|zuHause> and i need an application that can use that tuner
16:18:30 <Eddi|zuHause> but 0.8 is kde3, and 1.0 really sucks
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16:20:05 <Eddi|zuHause> what the hell would i need a "distro" for, if i'm searching for a simple application?
16:25:01 <Ammler> too many gnome dependencies imo
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16:27:07 <GhostlyDeath> It just depends on gstreamer and GTK mostly
16:27:34 <GhostlyDeath> The only thing I see that is GNOME is gconf
16:28:00 <GhostlyDeath> and an extension for nautilus
16:28:41 <GhostlyDeath> None of the stuff depends on the core of GNOME at al
16:29:20 <GhostlyDeath> I use Window Maker
16:33:33 <Eddi|zuHause> the gnome file browser, afaik
16:34:03 <Ammler> yes, quite bad, if you have it installed on a KDE system
16:35:32 <GhostlyDeath> The dependecies in totem do not fall back to depending on nautilus at all
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16:37:10 <GhostlyDeath> I can remove nautilus without any incident, but even though I don't use it I have it installed anyway
16:37:51 <Ammler> well, I had some troubles to "teach" Firefox not using nautilus
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16:39:17 <GhostlyDeath> might be a mime type association problem
16:39:50 <GhostlyDeath> Currently in nautilus if I were to open a C file it would open in AbiWord
16:40:35 <GhostlyDeath> so i went into /usr/share/applications and similars and started changing things around
16:41:19 <GhostlyDeath> Would make associations in GNOME, KDE, XFCE, and other WMs that use FreeDesktop stuff stick
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16:47:45 <Katje> I am running openttd version 1.0.1 (from debian), and I have no working AI
16:47:47 <nicfer> luukland's server gms are fascists
16:48:20 <nicfer> they banned me because I didn't answer a question
16:49:24 <nicfer> and then they didn't answer me and had to spam to call their attention
16:50:03 <Eddi|zuHause> Katje: need to download them
16:51:02 <Eddi|zuHause> the ais are done by community people, not the openttd devs
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17:26:08 <Alberth> hmm, we don't have an overview of AIs at the wiki yet
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17:39:04 <Alberth> I was looking for something with a few lines of description, so users can select an AI
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17:39:41 <Ammler> the bananas description doesn't fit?
17:41:42 <Alberth> I didn't realize it existed, but you are right, much better
17:45:28 <CIA-2> OpenTTD: translators * r20873 /trunk/src/lang/ (arabic_egypt.txt dutch.txt spanish.txt unfinished/tamil.txt):
17:45:28 <CIA-2> OpenTTD: -Update from WebTranslator v3.0:
17:45:28 <CIA-2> OpenTTD: arabic_egypt - 37 changes by kasakg
17:45:28 <CIA-2> OpenTTD: dutch - 1 changes by megabyte
17:45:28 <CIA-2> OpenTTD: spanish - 2 changes by Terkhen
17:45:29 <CIA-2> OpenTTD: tamil - 1 changes by vv
17:47:56 <GhostlyDeath> I shall write an AI that does nothing
17:48:06 <GhostlyDeath> or it just builds roads spending all of it's money and makes no profit
17:53:34 <Alberth> the former already exists
18:00:03 * Ammler should upload nothing.grf to bananas
18:03:01 <Alberth> oh, it will be downloaded very often, just like my 'example staircase' heightmap :) 45639 times already
18:05:59 <andythenorth_> how much is the game downloaded at the moment?
18:06:45 <Rubidium> under the assumption that downloading is an atomic action of near 0 time
18:07:11 <andythenorth_> is that more or less than normal :P
18:07:36 <andythenorth_> so about average then?
18:08:08 <Rubidium> hmm... this is going the wrong way...
18:08:27 <Rubidium> but then you should specify some timeframe for measurement instead of a single point in time
18:08:44 <andythenorth_> how about monthyl
18:09:00 <andythenorth_> how did september compare to previous n months?
18:09:19 <Rubidium> I'll update my pdf for you
18:09:31 <andythenorth_> seems forums are very quiet to me....some sub-forums don't change for days/weeks
18:09:39 <Rubidium> though that'll have daily counts
18:11:07 <Rubidium> specially for you, without labels, legendas and the likes
18:13:20 <andythenorth_> is the y axis on the first chart downloads or bandwidth?
18:14:14 <andythenorth_> one or two very big days :o
18:14:24 <andythenorth_> and generally increasing
18:14:48 <andythenorth_> so guessing interest in the game hasn't levelled out / fallen
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18:14:59 <andythenorth_> maybe quiet forums == it's nearly done
18:15:10 <andythenorth_> or maybe bananas removes need to visit forums so much
18:17:23 <Rubidium> I think it's the general "begin of the school/university year" syndrom
18:18:06 <Rubidium> you can see a fair "lack" of commits during the weekdays in OpenTTD's repository as well
18:18:29 <andythenorth_> that'll be the 'work' syndrome
18:18:54 <andythenorth_> in my case the 'work + baby' syndrome (different repo, same pattern)
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18:19:19 <Alberth> my repo's at work suffer from the 'weekend' syndrome :p
18:19:55 <Rubidium> well, I'd actually say that the begin of school year syndrome bleeds into the corporate world. Lots of new projects that get started up just after the holidays/vacation and such
18:21:27 *** Eddi|zuHause2 has joined #openttd
18:23:24 <Eddi|zuHause2> hmz... different fonts look ugly
18:25:11 <Rubidium> ghehe... and that given the research that humans have difficulty seeing differences
18:26:20 <Eddi|zuHause2> but... it shouldn't be different at all..
18:26:28 <Eddi|zuHause2> i copied over the configuration
18:28:34 <Alberth> then perhaps different fonts are installed?
18:34:17 <Eddi|zuHause2> i have a feeling it's the screen resolution or dpi setting
18:35:24 <ryx> I managed to get a tram completely stuck on a level crossing
18:36:48 <ryx> and as usual, asking in irc helps me resolve the problem...
18:40:25 <Eddi|zuHause> default connected 1680x1050+0+0 0mm x 0mm
18:40:30 <Eddi|zuHause2> DVI-0 connected 1680x1050+0+0 (normal left inverted right x axis y axis) 473mm x 296mm
18:40:51 <Eddi|zuHause2> output of xrandr
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19:21:38 <GhostlyDeath> Are there any interactive training tutorials?
19:24:46 <Alberth> the wiki has a small tutorial, and there are youtube videos
19:27:02 <Ammler> we have a tut save, but might be a bit old...
19:29:25 <CIA-2> OpenTTD: alberth * r20874 /trunk/src/pathfinder/npf/ (aystar.cpp aystar.h npf.cpp): -Codechange: Make init_AyStar a method.
19:30:35 <CIA-2> OpenTTD: alberth * r20875 /trunk/src/pathfinder/npf/ (aystar.cpp aystar.h): -Codechange: Make AyStarMain_OpenList_Add a method.
19:31:42 <CIA-2> OpenTTD: alberth * r20876 /trunk/src/pathfinder/npf/ (aystar.cpp aystar.h): -Codechange: Make AyStarMain_OpenList_Pop a method.
19:32:13 <Eddi|zuHause2> updates to npf?
19:32:46 <Alberth> just refactoring the code towards c++-ish
19:32:52 <CIA-2> OpenTTD: alberth * r20877 /trunk/src/pathfinder/npf/ (aystar.cpp aystar.h): -Codechange: Make AyStarMain_OpenList_IsInList a method.
19:33:39 <CIA-2> OpenTTD: alberth * r20878 /trunk/src/pathfinder/npf/ (aystar.cpp aystar.h): -Codechange: Make AyStarMain_ClosedList_Add a method.
19:34:03 <Eddi|zuHause2> hm... either my mainboard or my dvd drive is a few millimeter too long for this case...
19:34:45 <CIA-2> OpenTTD: alberth * r20879 /trunk/src/pathfinder/npf/ (aystar.cpp aystar.h): -Codechange: Make AyStarMain_ClosedList_IsInList a method.
19:35:41 <Rubidium> Eddi|zuHause2: nothing a saw can solve
19:38:34 <CIA-2> OpenTTD: alberth * r20880 /trunk/src/pathfinder/npf/ (aystar.cpp queue.cpp queue.h): -Codechange: Make Hash_Size a method.
19:39:14 <andythenorth_> how about a 'fund random industry' button
19:39:47 <CIA-2> OpenTTD: alberth * r20881 /trunk/src/pathfinder/npf/ (aystar.cpp queue.cpp queue.h): -Codechange: Make Hash_Get a method.
19:40:23 <Alberth> close your eyes and click at the window :p
19:41:39 <CIA-2> OpenTTD: alberth * r20882 /trunk/src/pathfinder/npf/ (aystar.cpp queue.cpp queue.h): -Codechange: Make Hash_Set a method.
19:42:31 * Rubidium points to $baby for that feature
19:42:56 <CIA-2> OpenTTD: alberth * r20883 /trunk/src/pathfinder/npf/ (aystar.cpp queue.cpp queue.h): -Codechange: Make Hash_Delete a method.
19:43:44 <CIA-2> OpenTTD: alberth * r20884 /trunk/src/pathfinder/npf/ (aystar.cpp queue.cpp queue.h): -Codechange: Make clear_Hash a method.
19:43:50 <Rubidium> wow... over 20 commits in 10 hours... what a difference with the previous days
19:43:58 * andythenorth_ likes Alberth's suggestion :P
19:44:11 <Alberth> cats also work, ask Eddi :)
19:45:11 <Alberth> Rubidium: they are quite boring
19:45:13 <CIA-2> OpenTTD: alberth * r20885 /trunk/src/pathfinder/npf/ (aystar.cpp queue.cpp queue.h): -Codechange: Make delete_Hash a method.
19:46:38 <CIA-2> OpenTTD: alberth * r20886 /trunk/src/pathfinder/npf/ (aystar.cpp queue.cpp queue.h): -Codechange: Make init_Hash a method.
19:47:35 <CIA-2> OpenTTD: alberth * r20887 /trunk/src/pathfinder/npf/ (queue.cpp queue.h): -Codechange: Make stat_Hash a method.
19:48:59 <CIA-2> OpenTTD: alberth * r20888 /trunk/src/pathfinder/npf/ (queue.cpp queue.h): -Codechange: Make Hash_FindNode a method.
19:51:35 <Ammler> does someone still use npf?
19:51:50 <Ammler> or is that for save compatibilty?
19:52:21 <Alberth> No idea, it is code that can be improved :)
19:53:32 <CIA-2> OpenTTD: alberth * r20889 /trunk/src/pathfinder/npf/ (aystar.cpp aystar.h): -Codechange: Make ClosedListHash, OpenListQueue, and OpenListHash data protected, and rename for coding style.
19:55:42 <CIA-2> OpenTTD: alberth * r20890 /trunk/src/pathfinder/npf/ (aystar.cpp aystar.h): -Doc: Make documentation accessible to doxygen.
19:59:53 <Eddi|zuHause2> hm... i can't get this tv card to tune...
20:00:35 <Rubidium> Ammler: it's pretty useful to figure out whether something is PF related or not
20:02:01 <Eddi|zuHause2> Alberth: actually, my cats tend to avoid stepping on the keyboard
20:02:34 <Eddi|zuHause2> using it as pillow, on the other hand...
20:05:07 <Rubidium> it's evening? Oh crap...
20:06:15 <planetmaker> :-D sky is dark at least here ;-)
20:07:36 <Rubidium> oh, that's the reason why I'm not pushed as hard away from the window as I was a few hours ago :)
20:31:54 *** andythenorth_ has joined #openttd
20:38:55 *** insulfrog has joined #openttd
20:41:09 <insulfrog> got a quick question, has anyone tried to build a 2-X-2 5-way elec rail junction in openttd?
20:41:40 *** Eddi|zuHause2 has joined #openttd
20:42:19 <V453000> insulfrog: roundabout ftw? :)
20:43:18 <insulfrog> I'm trying to construct one myself and it's a bit of a pain to do
20:43:26 <V453000> but 3ways should be always sufficient I think :)
20:46:39 <Alberth> I think you need priority signalling for a round about
20:47:51 <insulfrog> I already got a temporary roundabout in place while the 'tangle' is being built
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20:48:36 <V453000> Alberth: what is bad about that :)
20:48:44 <insulfrog> roundabouts are nice but they are always 'join before split' and not always a good option in a very high traffic area
20:48:48 <V453000> but well ... not a good thing :)
20:49:00 <Alberth> they tend to deadlock
20:49:29 <TruePikachu> However, roundabouts don't need to be as complex as standard junctions
20:49:53 * TruePikachu has touched in their use before - they are SLOW
20:50:47 <TruePikachu> So, now, I use roundabouts on freight-only lines; they are slow, but as efficient as needed space-wise. PAX still uses traditional junctions
20:51:46 <TruePikachu> Well, anyway, Windows cannot connect to my Linux box through X11 :(
20:52:12 <TruePikachu> I wanted to see if I'd get some kind of speed increase, but I can't tell now
20:52:16 <insulfrog> I don't use any roundabouts at all as they tend to clog up often, which even on sidelines can have a knock-on effect on the running on the mainline
20:52:55 <TruePikachu> ^^ yes, my FGT roundabouts clogged up often, but they never deadlocked, but that's because I prevented a full roundabout
20:53:50 * TruePikachu wonders how to get X11 set up so that Windows can connect to Linux to play OpenTTD
20:54:41 <Alberth> X11 has no problem with remote connections, mostly Windows does not understand natively that the machine with the monitor and the machine where you work can be different
20:55:04 <TruePikachu> Well, I've gotten XDM going off root on the box...
20:55:20 <TruePikachu> ...and I've gotten Xming here on Windows...
20:55:55 <TruePikachu> I don't understand what's wrong
20:56:31 <Alberth> I have used vnc in the past, but that was about 10 years ago. Haven't touched a Windows machine since.
20:57:12 <TruePikachu> Ummm...you understand I'm connect from Win to Linux to run OTTD on Linux, and not the other way around, right?
20:57:30 <TruePikachu> (OTTD runs on Linux, displays on Win)
20:58:51 <TruePikachu> Well, anyway, I get xming going, have it connect to <Linux IP>, and, after asking me for my pass, it just quits
21:00:37 <Alberth> does the X server allow remote connections? Nowadays, they don't listen at sockets any more by default
21:00:49 <TruePikachu> I don't know, how would I check?
21:01:41 <Noldo> or the same with putty and some kind of X for windows
21:02:11 <TruePikachu> I'm using xming as an X server on Windows
21:03:05 <TruePikachu> Under putty, I need to specify an X display location. Would that be pointing to the Linux, or to the Windows?
21:04:09 <TruePikachu> I would assume the Windows box, but I haven't had much luck at all...
21:04:32 <Eddi|zuHause2> X always runs on your local computer
21:04:33 <frosch123> you also need to enable x11 forwarding in the sshd configuration
21:04:53 <Alberth> but you don't need a X server at windows if you display stuff at the unix machine
21:05:13 <TruePikachu> Eddi|zuHause2 and Alberth: I know
21:05:18 <TruePikachu> frosch123: How would I set that?
21:05:45 <frosch123> /etc/ssh/ssh_config
21:05:52 <TruePikachu> Wait, Eddi|zuHause2 and Alberth: nvm mind
21:06:33 <Alberth> run 'ssh -v -v -v' you get a more verbose output then
21:06:33 <TruePikachu> frosch123: What do I add?
21:06:47 <TruePikachu> Alberth: wouldn't 'ssh -vvv' work?
21:06:54 <frosch123> usually you just need to uncomment a line or change some no to yes
21:07:01 <Alberth> probably that would work too
21:07:16 <TruePikachu> frosch123: OR? I have a commented line with 'yes'
21:08:01 <TruePikachu> Okay; entire file minus comments: (pending)
21:09:11 * TruePikachu goes to reboot computer
21:09:30 <frosch123> restarting sshd might be enough :p
21:10:43 *** LaSeandre_ has joined #openttd
21:11:44 *** TruePikachu has joined #openttd
21:12:28 <frosch123> did you modify ssh_config (as i said incorrectly) or sshd_config? :p
21:13:20 *** theholyduck has joined #openttd
21:13:29 <TruePikachu> Ummm...but I forgot to save changes :P
21:13:38 <frosch123> was the wrong file anyway
21:14:02 <frosch123> also you do not need to reboot, it is not windows
21:14:36 <frosch123> just restart the service
21:15:11 <TruePikachu> Ummm...it's readonly
21:15:24 <TruePikachu> frosch123: I'll have to be back later
21:15:34 <TruePikachu> But changing that should be all?
21:15:59 <frosch123> it was enough for my x11 forwarding from gentoo to debian
21:16:35 <frosch123> no idea about windows clients
21:22:59 <GhostlyDeath> The speed of the oil tanker is pathetic
21:23:23 <GhostlyDeath> however, it's all much cheaper than creating a bridge that is 50 tiles long
21:33:17 *** Vitus is now known as Guest1581
21:33:18 *** Vitus_ is now known as Vitus
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21:35:13 <GhostlyDeath> This is a bad bug, if you choose Imperial measurements, oil is in liters instead of gallons
21:35:40 <Eddi|zuHause2> that can't be changed
21:35:49 <Eddi|zuHause2> and it's actually in 1000 litres
21:36:06 <GhostlyDeath> It can internally be kept in liters, but displayed as gallons
21:36:50 <Eddi|zuHause2> because it's (internal units) + (postfix)
21:37:04 <GhostlyDeath> You can't convert a number then pass it to the dialog to be drawn?
21:37:16 <GhostlyDeath> It's most likely already done with mph and km/h
21:38:16 <Eddi|zuHause2> mph vs. km/h is different, because they're both totally arbitrary anyway. and money can only be converted in whole factors
21:38:37 <__ln__> or do you mean the postfix contains the three zeros?
21:39:03 <GhostlyDeath> Do you store the contents of a station/vehicle in a string?
21:39:13 <Rubidium> 265 gallons = 1000 liter, right?
21:40:06 <Eddi|zuHause2> if x gallons = 1000 litre, then 1000/x must be a whole number for this to be feasible
21:40:16 <frosch123> isn't playing a game iwth 7920 gallon tankwagons weird?
21:40:46 <DorpsGek> Rubidium: 1056.688208
21:40:49 <DorpsGek> Rubidium: 2113.376416
21:40:52 <DorpsGek> Rubidium: 4226.752832
21:40:55 <DorpsGek> Rubidium: 8453.505664
21:40:59 <DorpsGek> Rubidium: 16907.011328
21:41:08 <Eddi|zuHause2> i don't think that gets better :p
21:41:16 <GhostlyDeath> I like my gallons
21:41:35 <DorpsGek> Eddi|zuHause2: 3.78787878788
21:41:40 <GhostlyDeath> I prefer my oil tanker to tell me I have 58k gallons of oil
21:41:45 <DorpsGek> Eddi|zuHause2: 333.333333333
21:42:11 <GhostlyDeath> If you limit yourself to integer math, you can always (* 100) / 10000
21:42:13 <Eddi|zuHause2> GhostlyDeath: basically you can choose between these two numbers
21:42:53 <Eddi|zuHause2> GhostlyDeath: but people WILL complain that they are not accurate enough
21:43:09 <GhostlyDeath> Eddi|zuHause2: add more of a multiplier
21:43:25 <Rubidium> how many m3 is that?
21:43:49 <GhostlyDeath> Rubidium: I like that
21:43:53 <Rubidium> (just to check my calculations are correct)
21:43:59 <Eddi|zuHause2> @calc 23232/264.172052
21:43:59 <DorpsGek> Eddi|zuHause2: 87.9426866851
21:44:12 <Eddi|zuHause2> @calc 23232/264
21:44:27 <Rubidium> good, then it's correct enough
21:45:04 <GhostlyDeath> 1 liters is 0.264172052 gallons
21:45:49 <Rubidium> a imperial gallon is 4.54609 litres
21:45:56 <DorpsGek> Rubidium: 219.969248299
21:46:42 <GhostlyDeath> Rubidium: Which gallong are you using?
21:46:54 <GhostlyDeath> 1 US Gallon is 3.78541178 liters
21:47:09 <Eddi|zuHause2> but it's called "imperial", and not "us"
21:47:16 <Rubidium> I'm using the thing google gave me, which is US
21:47:24 <GhostlyDeath> Google said that to me
21:47:25 <Rubidium> and there's also an imperial gallon
21:47:44 <GhostlyDeath> The US is the only country using Imperial really
21:47:46 <Rubidium> which is basically the UK gallon, which is abandonned as they use litres now
21:47:59 <Prof_Frink> 'cept for milk and beer.
21:48:48 <Prof_Frink> And measuring fuel economy in MPG, despite buying it in litres.
21:48:54 <Rubidium> so we'd need an "imperial (UK)" and "imperial (US)"
21:49:26 <Rubidium> which is too much work for me to do now
21:49:34 <Eddi|zuHause2> Rubidium: maybe then HE can also get the distinction between imperial horsepowers and metric horsepowers? :p
21:49:49 <Rubidium> yeah, he'd need that
21:49:56 <Prof_Frink> A metric horse has 5 legs.
21:49:56 <GhostlyDeath> US tons and UK tons
21:50:15 <Rubidium> yes, imperial (uk) would use metric tonnes there
21:50:18 <Prof_Frink> Tons is tons. Tonnes are metric and short tons are silly.
21:54:47 <GhostlyDeath> heh, the smallest town just outgrew it's slightly larger neighbor
21:55:07 <GhostlyDeath> it was 100 vs 60, now it's 99 vs 163
21:55:25 <GhostlyDeath> Can town be vaporized with populations reduced to zero?
21:58:15 *** LaSeandre has joined #openttd
21:59:52 <GhostlyDeath> Can more towns and industries pop up out of nowhere?
22:06:11 <planetmaker> even yes & yes, if MP and 'proper' settings
22:26:54 *** ProfFrink has joined #openttd
22:27:01 *** ProfFrink is now known as Prof_Frink
22:27:40 <KouDy> any idea what graphic is used there?
22:29:37 <Eddi|zuHause2> can you be more specific?
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22:36:36 <GhostlyDeath> The only reason the small towns still exist
22:36:47 <GhostlyDeath> One has a football field, the other has soccer
22:38:52 <Eddi|zuHause2> that's the same thing
22:40:35 *** ProfFrink is now known as Prof_Frink
22:49:13 <Katje> the ai's seem to produce some rather quaint works of comedy
22:52:24 <Eddi|zuHause> yeah, half the posts in the comedy thread are misbehaving AIs :p
22:59:03 <insulfrog> finally, got my junction done :)
22:59:43 <insulfrog> i got room now to add more trains to my network :p
23:09:28 <insulfrog> Right, that's my game done for today, when I post some screens, I will do if I have time, time for bed now, night all :)
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23:24:53 <TruePikachu> Okay, I made the modification to sshd_config
23:25:12 <TruePikachu> Doesn't look like I'm having much luck...
23:25:43 <TruePikachu> Okay, so I'm SSHing there, with PuTTY configured for X tunneling
23:25:51 <TruePikachu> What do I set DISPLAY to?
23:27:40 <TruePikachu> If I set it to this computer (Windows), "<WinIP>:0", I get, from xterm:
23:28:14 <TruePikachu> No protocol specified \\ Can't open display
23:28:37 <TruePikachu> localhost fails as well
23:30:23 <TruePikachu> However, localhost has a protocol
23:35:53 <TruePikachu> Uhh...doing a "ps faux" returns partial branch off of "xdm" of "/usr/bin/X :0 -nolisten ..." << -nolisten???
23:36:14 <TruePikachu> That may be my problem; know how to fix?
23:39:19 *** Eddi|zuHause2 has joined #openttd
23:42:04 *** ChanServ sets mode: +v tokai
23:52:03 <TruePikachu> Okay, PuTTY is indeed getting forwarding correctly
23:52:32 <TruePikachu> DISPLAY = localhost:11.0 (from perspective of Linux box)
23:52:52 <TruePikachu> Lol, typed in xterm and it worked
23:54:23 <TruePikachu> Okay, I got X over here...now why won't OpenTTD transfer?
23:56:26 <TruePikachu> Yes, OTTD is failing miserably
23:58:15 <davis> nice conversation you're having there
23:58:48 <TruePikachu> Well, just tried 'starting' kde here on Windows, and all I get is a cursor
23:59:13 <TruePikachu> Wait, I have partial taskbar; what the heck is the problem?!
23:59:31 <davis> yeah that's the huge problems in life :P
23:59:45 <TruePikachu> Lol, thought this would be faster, as the box wouldn't have to deal with all these display commands itself. I was wrong
continue to next day ⏵
