IRC logs for #openttd on OFTC at 2010-08-23
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00:00:58 <TruePikachu> Lol, it's amazing
00:01:16 <TruePikachu> Slow, but amazing
00:01:32 <TruePikachu> (and it isn't slow from PC lag)
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02:59:49 <TruePikachu> VVG: it's 8PM, you sure sleep in :)
03:19:30 <VVG> If i say that "Non-destructive autofill updates only traveling times, if waiting times are preset", this will be correct?
03:19:59 <VVG> i just noticed it's in trunk since 14592 but wiki has nothing about it
03:31:27 <VVG> captchas used on wiki are something totally out of this world
03:50:17 <VVG> Is it ok to use both a warning and a note right after it on wiki?
03:51:49 <TruePikachu> Can you suggest an easy-to-beat AI that actually tries to win?
03:53:53 <TruePikachu> VVG: About the Wiki, you can put it with both, and, if unneccessary, part of it will be deleted
03:54:33 <VVG> no, i don't play with AIs
03:55:31 <TruePikachu> How quickly does 256*256 fill up, compared to 1024*256?
03:56:47 <TruePikachu> And should it lag as much as 1024*256?
04:00:23 <TruePikachu> Lol, I'll try SimpleAI
04:00:30 <TruePikachu> It tries to imitate the old AI
04:00:46 <TruePikachu> BUT I'm using lots of game changes since then
04:01:11 <TruePikachu> One thing is, like how the old AI did lots of 90deg, well, they're disabled ;D
04:26:09 <TruePikachu> Can AIs buy exclusive rights?
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05:42:45 <TruePikachu> Lol, the AI was going to cross one of my major rail lines
05:42:57 <TruePikachu> I quickly set up a road for them to take
05:43:20 <TruePikachu> Later, I set both ends of the road to one-way RIGHT INTO THE TRACKS :D
05:43:53 <TruePikachu> A few years later, the CPU went bankrupt replacing all those vehicals rather than finding the source of the problem
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07:24:13 <TruePikachu> VVG: Are you aiming for trunk integration?
07:24:57 <dihedral> he should aim at making an as clean as possible patch
07:25:05 <dihedral> trunk integration is then up to other people
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07:26:07 <dihedral> personally i must say i find the thought of yet another time in the game confusing
07:27:18 <VVG> dihedral: did you saw a link about 24h timetables game?
07:28:08 <dihedral> let me put it this way - as it is network compatible across various settings and is purely client side, i am not forced to like it :-P
07:28:31 <dihedral> it can rest in the game without me ever needing to take notice ^^
07:28:43 <dihedral> i am sure there are people out there who would like it though
07:29:52 <VVG> well, that's how it happened to me - saw a link, wanted to try, failed at organizing it properly, because there is just no stable loop to base it on. thus, came the desire to resurrect the patch
07:32:12 <dihedral> well - i guess you will get to know that part of the code well :-)
07:34:56 <TruePikachu> What is the EXACT ratio to ticks per day?
07:35:30 <VVG> day is 74 ticks long in trunk
07:36:02 * TruePikachu wonders where 74 comes from now
07:36:53 <dihedral> TruePikachu, why is the origin important?
07:38:00 <dihedral> have a look at the world time of swatch, it's in beats
07:38:04 <dihedral> a day has 1000 beats
07:39:19 <dihedral> why on earth they did that i do not know ;-)
07:39:27 <dihedral> i do not need to either :-P
07:39:58 <TruePikachu> 2.22 seconds per day, not significant enough
07:40:26 <dihedral> depends on your computer ;-)
07:40:40 <dihedral> a slow computer needs longer to calculate the 74 ticks
07:40:42 <DorpsGek> TruePikachu: Error: 'factor' is not a defined function.
07:40:47 <dihedral> and thus needs more than 2.22 seconds
07:40:59 <TruePikachu> dihedral: Look @ my computer
07:41:47 <TruePikachu> Wait, I got an idea
07:42:06 <dihedral> and perhaps your definition of slow != my definition of slow ;-)
07:43:08 <TruePikachu> :( 67.569... seconds per month, doesn't help much
07:43:43 <DorpsGek> dihedral: 2.17935483871
07:43:49 <DorpsGek> dihedral: 2.41285714286
07:44:22 <TruePikachu> An average of days of the month throughout all eternity
07:45:08 <TruePikachu> 30.43684954... days ~ 1 month
07:45:10 <VVG> eternity is 2^31 around here
07:48:01 <TruePikachu> 3.459[459]... days in 256 ticks
07:48:54 <TruePikachu> Wait, what year was Chris Swayer born in?
07:51:57 * TruePikachu thinks that the year 1974 has some significance to him
07:54:16 <TruePikachu> Google seems to be little help
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07:55:39 <TruePikachu> TomyLobo: Know of any significance of the number 74? Possibly with Chris Sawyer?
07:56:16 <TomyLobo> it's 42 with one bit moved :)
07:56:31 <TomyLobo> the msb moved one left
07:57:14 <TruePikachu> Lol, I didn't know that the rate of time in OpenTTD was based upon the meaning of life :D
07:57:24 <dihedral> TruePikachu, the reason is in the source ;-)
07:57:35 <TomyLobo> i guess it fit his test machine :)
07:57:43 <TomyLobo> or minimum target platform
07:57:45 * TruePikachu doesn't know where in the source
07:57:54 <TomyLobo> i personally would have probably picked 64
07:58:10 <TruePikachu> I would have done something like 72
07:58:14 <dihedral> 1 day is 74 ticks; _date_fract used to be uint16 and incremented by 885. On
07:58:14 <dihedral> 10 * an overflow the new day begun and 65535 / 885 = 74.
07:58:47 <dihedral> 1 tick is approximately 30 ms.
07:58:54 <dihedral> 1 day is thus about 2 seconds (74 * 30 = 2220) on a machine that can run OpenTTD normally
07:59:01 <TomyLobo> ok and where does the 8856 come from? :)
08:00:45 * TruePikachu doesn't understand
08:01:18 <TruePikachu> You wrote "10 Ctrl+I space * bunch of spaces"...
08:05:07 <TruePikachu> Each tick would be 20min
08:06:03 <TruePikachu> 1 day / 72 = 20 min
08:07:29 <dihedral> TruePikachu, diskuss it with Rubidium or TrueBrain ;-)
08:07:32 <TomyLobo> well this way it'd be 22.5 mins
08:08:26 <TruePikachu> For how many ticks?
08:08:46 <jordi> Rubidium: not really. Probably it's been enough now
08:08:57 <TruePikachu> 1 tick in a day would be 24 hours per tick :P
08:09:32 <TomyLobo> oh i thought you were asking how many ticks in 3/8h
08:09:39 <TomyLobo> the answer is 64 in that case
08:09:54 <TruePikachu> Lol, just figured that out
08:10:46 <TomyLobo> 32 bit virtual time integer: ddddddddddddddddddddddddddtttttt
08:11:01 <TomyLobo> as you can see, it's easy to separate
08:11:48 <TomyLobo> time = virtual_time & 63; date = (virtual_time & ~63) >> 6
08:12:01 <TomyLobo> time = virtual_time & 63; date = virtual_time >> 6
08:17:18 * TruePikachu just proved that you can put 50% more straight pins into a box by hand rather than by machine; Now I'll see how it can be benificial to rails and NoAI
08:18:13 <TomyLobo> i guess that's just transport safety
08:18:24 * TruePikachu 's hands hurt now
08:18:30 <TomyLobo> and profit margin :D
08:18:41 <TruePikachu> 600 individual pins :(
08:18:50 <TruePikachu> By hand w/o gloves
08:19:10 <TomyLobo> do your fingers bleed?
08:19:32 <TruePikachu> They aren't, but it's annoying when you are using rattlesnake eggs to try and help
08:19:43 <TruePikachu> Pinc some flying towards them
08:19:59 <TruePikachu> lol, switched letters
08:20:15 <TomyLobo> better rattlesnake eggs than butterfingers
08:20:24 <Rubidium> jordi: too bad there isn't some limit :(
08:20:40 <TruePikachu> Anyway, it's even more annoying when you have a second one sitting in the middle of the pin pile, and it gets attracted to the one in your hand
08:21:34 <TruePikachu> Surprisingly, no real injuries
08:21:46 <TruePikachu> Unlike what I did to an AI earlier today
08:22:45 <TruePikachu> An AI was going to build across one of my train routes with light traffic, so I helped by building some roads for them
08:23:07 <TruePikachu> I also helped control the traffic flow with one-way arrows :D
08:24:01 <TruePikachu> The trucks kept getting destroyed, so the AI kept rebuilding them, and they went bankrupt because they never found the problem
08:27:48 <dihedral> open up a blog, and let those interested in your stories read it
08:29:13 * TruePikachu decides to create a page in OpenTTD Wiki Userspace about OpenTTD stories
08:29:52 <TruePikachu> Nah, I hate keeping things like that up to date
08:33:34 <TomyLobo> shoo dihedral, i thought it was funny
08:33:49 <Rubidium> dihedral: you can actively suppress those stories on IRC as well
08:35:48 <dihedral> Rubidium, i just have not come across such a feature on the bouncer
08:35:58 <dihedral> else i need to keel the list up to date on every client i use :-P
08:37:09 <TruePikachu> (oh, and my comment about being bored was regarding what I did to the AI)
08:40:15 <peter1138> dihedral, there's a feature called /quit, or possibly /exit
08:40:42 <TruePikachu> What about /part ?
08:40:55 <dihedral> that is not as significant ^^
08:41:19 <TruePikachu> /server localhost
08:41:21 <peter1138> he could still receive messages after using part
08:42:07 <TruePikachu> I know an ever better one, but it has to be done from BASH
08:42:15 <TruePikachu> sudo /sbin/init 0
08:42:28 <TruePikachu> Oh, you need sudo privliges
08:43:04 <TruePikachu> Oh, and that's only for *nix
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08:44:06 <TruePikachu> ^^ What did you try?
08:44:32 <peter1138> has to be done "from a shell"
08:44:41 <peter1138> don't assume everyone uses bash, eh?
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08:47:27 <TruePikachu> dihedral: I'm just wondering, why are you doing that?
08:48:10 <TruePikachu> Or, at least, what are you trying to do?
08:49:41 <Rubidium> did you install the ignore module of znc?
08:50:13 <dihedral> TruePikachu, you have enough keywords to use google
08:50:23 <TruePikachu> Try /ignore , that may be what you're after (I'm not sure what exactly what you're after, though)
08:51:11 <TruePikachu> Oh, I was way off :P
08:54:55 *** peter1138 sets mode: +b *!*dih@*.noaddedsugar.net
08:54:55 *** dihedral was kicked by peter1138 (this works)
08:55:47 <Rubidium> peter1138: isn't it better to ban the troll?
08:57:17 <akfaew> if a vehicle waits on a station on "full load" and after some time departs, is the cargo depart time equal to vehicle depart time, or the time it was first loaded?
08:57:39 <peter1138> I fail to see any trollishness from him
08:58:00 <peter1138> only dihedral complaining about content he doesn't care about
08:58:10 <Rubidium> peter1138: see e.g. FS#4070
08:58:19 <peter1138> and it's temporary :)
08:58:27 *** peter1138 sets mode: -b *!*dih@*.noaddedsugar.net
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08:59:06 <peter1138> Rubidium, perhaps pointless. not trollish though.
08:59:43 <Rubidium> then at least he's extremely annoying
08:59:58 <peter1138> i find dihedral extremely annoying
09:00:55 <peter1138> can't do that, i might forget why and remove it
09:01:19 <Noldo> irssi has temporary ignores
09:01:20 <Rubidium> in any case, I find people who have no clue about a particular subject telling incorrect things to unsuspecting users quite annoying
09:01:48 <Rubidium> Noldo: the point is that he needs some way of adding a note why he ignored the person
09:02:20 <TruePikachu> Oh, the shortcomings of all blocking softwares; no way to really type a remark
09:02:55 <dihedral> peter1138, i found my ignore module ;-)
09:03:14 <dihedral> problem solved on my side ^^
09:03:55 <VVG> i usually forget the reason for ignore right after setting ignore. later, there being and ignore is a reason enough for me to keep it
09:05:26 <TruePikachu> Rubidium: What was that comment on the flyspray about? I am just trying to help, not trying to troll
09:06:58 * TruePikachu thinks that Rubidium thought I was a troll ever since that incident from my first day here
09:07:24 <TruePikachu> Stupid NAT 'fixing'
09:09:05 <peter1138> TruePikachu, has he you on ignore, so don't bother :)
09:10:01 <TruePikachu> I hate when people get the wrong first impressions of me, it causes things like this to happen
09:10:47 <TruePikachu> And it's even worse when the people pay more attention to my mistakes than my successes
09:12:06 <TruePikachu> Then they flame/bash/etc me, and make me look bad
09:14:28 <dihedral> thegrebs.com do not log this channel anymore? what a shame - i liked those logs
09:15:05 <TruePikachu> Great, now Rubidium seems to be trying to break into my computer; the IP address from DenyHosts matches his IP address
09:15:14 <planetmaker> there's more than one person with that setting, peter1138 :-)
09:15:28 <VVG> dihedral: that's kinda funny point in time to bring that topic :)
09:15:57 <TruePikachu> hello planetmaker
09:16:51 <dihedral> but i always enjoyed the ones at thegrebs.com a bit more ;-)
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09:16:56 <dihedral> personal preference, that's all
09:17:13 <peter1138> why bother reading logs to see what people you're ignoring are saying?
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09:17:50 <dihedral> merely checking the ignore module worked ;-)
09:18:40 <TruePikachu> Lol, just noticed it's 2AM here, night all
09:19:17 <emielia> 11:30 in the netherlands
09:19:20 <planetmaker> the public logs are much more chitter chatter than my local ones :-)
09:19:34 <planetmaker> you're off by 11 minutes, emielia ;-)
09:20:05 <Terkhen> studying, and as a result bored
09:20:11 <emielia> how do you know that?
09:20:36 <dihedral> it is now Terkhen ^^
09:21:10 <VVG> you are all lying about time at "here"!
09:22:18 <blathijs> Hmm, TruePikachu != TrueBrain apparently
09:22:37 <planetmaker> blathijs: of course!
09:22:52 <blathijs> Well, TrueBrain isn't very nick-steady, so it could have been ;-)
09:23:09 <planetmaker> :-) It's usually feasable quite quickly to tell from the behaviour :-)
09:23:48 <emielia> im loking for new new grf's
09:25:25 <planetmaker> otherwise become aquainted with the 'online content' feature
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09:26:45 <emielia> who know a grf for openttd??
09:27:02 <planetmaker> [11:25] <planetmaker> otherwise become aquainted with the 'online content' feature
09:27:03 <dihedral> planetmaker, anotherone? :-D
09:27:51 <emielia> im listing on youtube
09:28:04 <emielia> look at my provil on youtube innioppo
09:28:58 <emielia> bye guys om going look for other new grf's
09:29:20 <planetmaker> now, that was weired
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11:04:34 <Wolf01> I asked securom to ban 2 of my serials, so I can freely crack the game, cracked runs better :|
11:05:59 <Wolf01> the original asks always to activate... and freezes in the middle of a game
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11:12:05 <Eddi|zuHause> it is well known that "copy protection" stuff only makes things worse for "honest buyers"
11:12:23 <Eddi|zuHause> and has practically no effect on actual copying
11:13:19 <Wolf01> I told it to securom, they replied "is not our problem"
11:13:48 <Rubidium> yeah, like DRM on CDs so older CD players can't play it. They got "sued" in the NL and now most CDs don't have the "this is a CD"-logo anymore, so it doesn't need to work in older CD players
11:14:02 <Wolf01> oh, maybe the DDOS attack to their servers is not my problem...
11:14:12 <Rubidium> yay for DRM making the world a worse place
11:17:07 <Wolf01> the real problem is now trying to find a "crack only" for the right language and version, maybe clean from trojans, I don't need the game, I already have the DVDs, I don't want to download 12GB for 5MB of crack :P
11:19:14 <Wolf01> since those stupid releasers don't understand how to make a .torrent, they can add 2 separate files, one for the game and one for the crack, not all in a single archive -.-
11:20:14 <Rubidium> Wolf01: but they can't password that (and thus ask money from you)
11:22:14 <Wolf01> I already spent my money... I think I'll bring back te game and replace it for the Xbox360 version
11:23:16 <Wolf01> charging the shop because the xbox edition (game+exp) costs less than PC game + PC exp purchased in 2 times
11:26:53 <Eddi|zuHause> luckily, for computer programs, there exists §69a UrhG
11:27:27 <Eddi|zuHause> "(5) Die Vorschriften der §§ 95a bis 95d finden auf Computerprogramme keine Anwendung."
11:28:05 <Eddi|zuHause> where §§95a to 95d relate to circumventing DRM
11:28:26 <Wolf01> unluckily I live in Italy, here exists Mafia, lupara, Berlusconi
11:38:40 <Eddi|zuHause> i just wonder if any judge ever ruled that cooking receipts constitute "computer programs"
11:39:15 <Eddi|zuHause> probably mistranslation ;)
11:39:32 <Eddi|zuHause> yeah, that sounds more appropriate
11:39:49 <Eddi|zuHause> it's the same word in german...
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12:24:10 <Wolf01> "We are sorry, that you have troubles. Please contact the game publishers
12:24:10 <Wolf01> support about this issue and how to resolve it."
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13:00:19 <Eddi|zuHause> Wolf01: if you really threaten to lawyer up, you could get a price repayment on the game ;)
13:01:48 <Wolf01> eh, I don't have enough money to repair my new car after a crash, do you think I can find enough money to pay a lawyer?
13:03:17 <Rubidium> do you need a lawyer to say you're going to get a lawyer?
13:04:18 <dihedral> if expressed as a threat - 'either ... or i get a lawyer'... that does not go down very well
13:04:50 <Wolf01> and if they want to go on?
13:05:31 <Rubidium> don't you have some government sponsored legal service for people without any money?
13:05:33 <Wolf01> or, if they "lol" at me and I can't go on?
13:05:53 <Wolf01> eh, that's the problem, I have some money :D
13:06:19 <dihedral> Rubidium, only if you really need one ^^
13:21:05 <peter1138> "cheese" works, but effectv and camstream don't :s
13:32:08 <redd> hey all. is there an easy way to close a busy airport for upgrading?
13:33:49 <dihedral> delete in the right second, rebuild in time
13:34:18 <KingJ> Not that i'm aware of, I just hover with my finger on the pause button, as soon as a plane tries to land, pause, skip orders, resume until there are no planes landed
13:34:23 <Rubidium> not really, besides ordering the aircraft to another airport
13:34:36 <redd> it's seriously busy though, like the holding pattern is chocablock
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13:38:04 <SpComb> replace the planes with trains
13:38:47 <redd> float some signals up above airport to prevent arrivals
13:39:05 <SpComb> build a bouy and send the planes there
13:41:19 <andythenorth> replace the planes with ships :P
13:41:33 <andythenorth> ships have effectively infinite capacity :P
13:41:43 <andythenorth> (up to the ~1m vehicle limit)
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13:44:12 <redd> not a bad idea, except half of a docks catchment area is over water (unless you're somehow allowed to dig a canal into the city by the council)
13:44:59 <andythenorth> distant join stations :P
13:45:04 <andythenorth> canal to the airport
13:45:22 * andythenorth will be proffering hydrofoils some time in 2011
13:45:31 <andythenorth> and also some *very* large ferries :P
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13:55:45 <rienholt> Howdy. Don't know if anyone is around but I had a quick question. Does anyone know if it is possible to compile OpenTTD or to get a an updated version of libc6 for Ubuntu 8.04? I think I am out of luck but I wanted to double check.
13:56:07 <Progman> you can compile openttd always by yourself
13:56:22 <Progman> download the source code, run ./configure, run "make" and then play ;)
13:57:53 <Rubidium> and further down that page there's a description on how to get the sources and how to compile/run OpenTTD
13:58:28 <Rubidium> if you fancy a .deb to install: the bottom of the page describes how to do that
13:58:46 <rienholt> Compiling after using the --enable-dedicated flag yields "openttd: /lib/libc.so.6: version `GLIBC_2.11' not found (required by openttd)"
13:59:19 <Rubidium> that's odd, because OpenTTD doesn't require such a recent libc
13:59:30 <Rubidium> did you compile on Ubuntu 8.04?
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14:00:31 <Rubidium> you haven't installed any PPAs or stuff from newer versions?
14:00:43 <Rubidium> custom compilers or something like that?
14:01:08 <rienholt> Negative. haven't stuck anything in since I use this server for some important things.
14:01:41 <rienholt> openttd: Depends: libc6 (>= 2.11) but 2.7-10ubuntu6 is to be installed Depends: libfontconfig1 (>= 2.8.0) but 2.5.0-2ubuntu3 is to be installed
14:02:07 <Rubidium> hmm, so you've installed OpenTTD from somewhere
14:02:18 <Rubidium> I suggest uninstalling that version first
14:03:22 <rienholt> Yes it is. That error was from earlier stating the dependencies. I removed that (because I wasn't paying attention and nabbed the Lucid .deb) before atempting the compile.
14:03:51 <rienholt> However I seem to still be missing those dependencies for my compile
14:03:53 <Rubidium> it "just" depends on 2.11 because it was compiled against that version
14:04:21 <Rubidium> rienholt: what happens when you give the path to the OpenTTD binary you just built?
14:04:49 <Rubidium> because I fear typing "openttd" will get that failed-to-install openttd that requires libc >= 2.11
14:06:02 <Rubidium> Depends: libc6 (>= 2.7-1), libfontconfig1 (>= 2.4.0), libfreetype6 (>= 2.3.5), libgcc1 (>= 1:4.1.1), libicu38 (>= 3.8-5), liblzo2-2, libpng12-0 (>= 1.2.13-4), libsdl1.2debian (>= 1.2.10-1), libstdc++6 (>= 4.1.1), zlib1g (>= 1:1.1.4)
14:06:15 <Rubidium> that are the depends of 1.0.3 compiled for Debian Lenny
14:06:34 <Rubidium> so it definitely works with libc 2.7 as well
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15:56:34 <planetmaker> hm... parameter settings miss one button: 'remove all parameters'. Or 'reset all parameters to default'. However it may be called.
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16:09:26 <roboboy> hm gnight even though its 2:15 AM
16:09:53 <planetmaker> then good morning ;-)
16:10:39 <VVG> i'd consider that as still being a night
16:15:52 <frosch123> unlikely, i am not aware of any newgrf using that variable
16:16:05 <planetmaker> VVG: I think frosch123 checked that back then :-)
16:16:15 <planetmaker> It was just the trigger to become aware of it
16:16:23 <Ammler> hmm, planetmaker you have experience with houses
16:16:31 <planetmaker> some. or little :-)
16:16:33 <Ammler> you could code stolenhouses
16:16:39 <frosch123> Ammler: he lives in one
16:16:53 <planetmaker> I even own 1/8 ;-)
16:17:26 <planetmaker> But definitely mine, if I'd have to chose, yes
16:17:46 <planetmaker> a big kitchen was one of the main criteria for the flat I live in :-)
16:18:10 <Ammler> well, we were able to sit in until the almost morning :-)
16:18:53 <planetmaker> :-) Something not uncommen in it :-)
16:20:18 * Rubidium wonders whether someone ever reported those desyncs in PSG189
16:22:20 <planetmaker> I think you even fixed it yourself
16:22:39 <planetmaker> and yes, there was a report you closed in response. Found it yesterday, forgot the number
16:22:40 <Rubidium> I guess not, as I can't find a desync fix since r20146
16:22:43 <planetmaker> was about railtypes
16:23:12 <planetmaker> we updated during the game. So it was a bit earlier rev probably
16:23:26 <Rubidium> PSG188 used 20146 as well
16:24:16 <Rubidium> although gamelog lists 20214 as well
16:25:24 <planetmaker> but i might be wrong
16:25:33 <Rubidium> unlikely, since the game started at 20146
16:26:14 <VVG> i see hg vcs. Does that mean i could use it directrly instead of hgsubversion to clone svn.openttd.org using toirtoiseHG?
16:26:17 <Rubidium> if PSG188 is meant, then that might be somewhat more believable
16:27:03 <VVG> such a fail on my side :(
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16:28:02 <frosch123> \o/ for "WITH!!!!!" in topic title
16:28:03 <planetmaker> I don't know anymore which rev we had the desyncs
16:33:15 <planetmaker> and I know that we talked quite lengthily about those desyncs
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17:45:53 <CIA-2> OpenTTD: translators * r20597 /trunk/src/lang/ (7 files): (log message trimmed)
17:45:53 <CIA-2> OpenTTD: -Update from WebTranslator v3.0:
17:45:53 <CIA-2> OpenTTD: dutch - 4 changes by habell
17:45:53 <CIA-2> OpenTTD: esperanto - 10 changes by Christopher
17:45:53 <CIA-2> OpenTTD: finnish - 1 changes by jpx_
17:45:55 <CIA-2> OpenTTD: german - 1 changes by planetmaker
17:45:55 <CIA-2> OpenTTD: icelandic - 54 changes by grjonib
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18:07:55 *** ChanServ sets mode: +v tokai
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18:19:28 <CIA-2> OpenTTD: michi_cc * r20598 /trunk/ (11 files in 2 dirs): -Codechange: [Win32] Replace the external x64 asm with a built-in Windows function.
18:20:34 <CIA-2> OpenTTD: michi_cc * r20599 /trunk/src/os/windows/crashlog_win.cpp: -Add: [Win32] Append a decoded stack trace to the debug.log. Most of the time, the result will only be useful if the corresponding PDB file is present.
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18:53:39 * andythenorth learns about crocodiles
18:53:52 <trebuchet> did you learn from wikipedia
19:02:04 <frosch123> Video Game Appearances <- those sections are always weird
19:09:32 <planetmaker> I'd like to talk you into doing two French translations :-)
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19:17:13 <Ammler> Rubidium: possible that the new "missing sprite error" can cause a seg fault?
19:18:44 * andythenorth puts newgrf projects on hold until certain Lego questions have answers :P
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19:39:42 <avdg> :/ everybody likes my flipflop
19:42:02 * andythenorth ponders how to build a swiss re 4/4 in lego
19:42:07 <andythenorth> windows are a problem :(
19:44:15 <andythenorth> re 4/4 460 looks more lego-friendly
19:49:20 <Bluelight> What was the port numbers?
19:51:39 <DorpsGek> Bluelight: OpenTTD uses TCP and UDP port 3979 for server <-> client communication, UDP port 3978 for masterserver (advertise) communication (outbound), and TCP port 3978 for content service, a.k.a. BaNaNaS (outbound)
19:58:24 <planetmaker> the ids where ships dock, you know ;-)
19:58:37 <planetmaker> ps.openttdcoop.org:3979
19:59:09 <VVG> just checking, how smart is dorpsgek deciding when to suggest trying @ports
19:59:13 <planetmaker> consider those ports a communication channel
19:59:19 <planetmaker> your computer can have 64k
19:59:38 <planetmaker> openttd chooses those two to communicate with other OpenTTD clients and servers and the content download
19:59:42 <planetmaker> and master server
19:59:53 <planetmaker> it's always the same ports
19:59:53 <VVG> i'm not asking here what are ports :)
20:00:00 <planetmaker> sounded like. sorry
20:00:11 <VVG> [23:49:23] <Bluelight> What was the port numbers?
20:00:12 <VVG> [23:50:01] <@DorpsGek> try @ports
20:00:17 <VVG> [23:59:11] <VVG> just checking, how smart is dorpsgek deciding when to suggest trying @ports
20:01:38 <VVG> DorpsGek: you are making me look stupid :(
20:01:52 <Prof_Frink> :o Dorpy has become self-aware
20:02:36 <Bluelight> Where is the config files saved?
20:03:01 <VVG> or correspoding data folder on ohter OSes
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20:41:56 <Rubidium> Ammler: it didn't for me
20:42:30 <Ammler> I try to reproduce, maybe the issue with some symlinks I have
20:43:04 <Ammler> compiling with --without-personal-dir and removing the symlinks worked
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20:50:51 <glx> planetmaker: just checked my mails ;)
20:52:19 <planetmaker> :-) Nice. Which address did you sent them to? ottd@ ...?
20:52:27 <planetmaker> or planetmaker@openttdcoop?
20:53:17 <planetmaker> oh... missread what you wrote :-)
20:53:44 <planetmaker> best way is to add them to the respective threads IMHO.
20:55:18 <planetmaker> glx: If you'd like to translate TTRS, too, it'd be nice. I didn't mention it in the mail, I think
20:55:53 <glx> translating snow line for now
20:56:11 <planetmaker> Might well be the last translation which makes it into the release :-)
20:56:27 <planetmaker> Though I'll wait till the weekend, I think
20:57:11 <Eddi|zuHause> "The German classes E 93 and E 94, also used by the ÖBB as series 1020, are sometimes called 'German crocodiles'. They are sometimes nicknamed "Alligators", instead, because of their broader, shorter snouts." <-- [citation needed]? i never heard that term...
21:02:41 <glx> planetmaker: snow line done
21:06:37 <Eddi|zuHause> i only know that the E94 [later renamed BR 254] was called "Eisenschwein" [iron pig] in eastern germany
21:06:50 <Eddi|zuHause> but "Alligator" i never heard...
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21:16:18 <Belugas> i like that vorob character
21:16:42 <Belugas> i like him because he is making it easy to hate him big time
21:18:29 <Rubidium> Belugas: you shouldn't hate people on the forum or IRC
21:19:47 <planetmaker> smooth and quiet, be a nice Belugas :-)
21:21:28 <Belugas> ho.. i never said that I do hate him
21:21:40 <Belugas> i just said that he makes it easy to be hated
21:21:53 <Belugas> like... demanding, not even polite, rude, blablabla
21:21:53 <CIA-2> OpenTTD: rubidium * r20600 /trunk/src/order_cmd.cpp: -Fix [FS#4075]: "downscale" a full load order to a load if possible order when removing the order while the vehicle is loading. This to prevent the vehicle from (possibly) staying forever in the station
21:22:22 <Belugas> i just had some very good news today, so i'm in a very good mood :)
21:25:00 <planetmaker> :-) That sounds goooood :-)
21:34:41 <TomyLobo> Eddi|zuHause krokodil, not alligator
21:35:11 <Eddi|zuHause> TomyLobo: it's a quote from wikipedia
21:35:52 <TomyLobo> from the discussion page? :)
21:40:41 <Eddi|zuHause> really... what??
21:41:02 <Eddi|zuHause> could you please answer in whole sentences?
21:41:15 <TomyLobo> <Eddi|zuHause> "The German classes E 93 and E 94, also used by the ÖBB as series 1020, are sometimes called 'German crocodiles'. They are sometimes nicknamed "Alligators", instead, because of their broader, shorter snouts." <-- [citation needed]? i never heard that term...
21:41:26 <TomyLobo> ÖBB. about the 10th word
21:41:41 <TomyLobo> ÖBB is the austrian railway company
21:41:56 <Eddi|zuHause> but what relevance does this have?
21:42:24 <TomyLobo> they might be nicknamed "Alligator" in austria
21:42:52 <TomyLobo> do you want me to go on stating the obvious?
21:43:06 <planetmaker> Krokodil is a known name for the engine andy shows
21:43:13 <Eddi|zuHause> because you're making hardly any sense
21:43:14 <TomyLobo> austria has a certain dialect
21:43:26 <TomyLobo> different from high german
21:43:52 <TomyLobo> they're using strange terminology sometimes, like "Palatschinken"
21:43:52 <Eddi|zuHause> yes, but your assumption is purely speculative.
21:44:40 <Eddi|zuHause> thus, it does not add anything of relevance to the discussion...
21:45:01 <Eddi|zuHause> i asked for a citation...
21:45:24 <Eddi|zuHause> and all you told me was that you haven't heard the term either...
21:45:37 <TomyLobo> well the whole article needs an overhaul
21:45:41 <TomyLobo> nothing is cited there
21:46:00 <Eddi|zuHause> yeah, it's a pretty bad article
21:47:22 <CIA-2> OpenTTD: yexo * r20601 /trunk/src/ (newgrf.cpp newgrf_config.cpp newgrf_config.h newgrf_gui.cpp): -Feature: [NewGRF] Add 'DEFA' field to set parameter defaults with action 14
21:48:32 <Eddi|zuHause> DEFA was the east german film association
21:49:01 <Eddi|zuHause> located mainly in Babelsberg (near Potsdam)
21:49:04 <Rubidium> oh, that'll be the thing I learnt today then :)
21:49:22 <planetmaker> "Spur der Steine" :-)
21:50:43 <Eddi|zuHause> before the german division it was called "UFA"
21:54:17 <CIA-2> OpenTTD: yexo * r20602 /trunk/src/newgrf.cpp: -Change (r20601): use DFLT instead of DEFA as name for the default field
22:03:51 <CIA-2> OpenTTD: rubidium * r20603 /trunk/ (config.lib src/misc/dbg_helpers.h src/order_backup.h): -Codechange: silence some ICC warnings
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22:17:37 <avdg> hmm, I'm now using the latest opengfx content (not from the online content) and its still complaining I'm not using the latest version of it
22:18:28 <Rubidium> you're using the latest OpenGFX nightly?
22:19:19 <avdg> I know its hard to find for the content download tracker to know its version
22:19:26 <Rubidium> as it doesn't do that for me
22:19:30 <avdg> maybe its better if there is a warning
22:20:43 <Rubidium> didn't check with the latest version (had r501), but r502 doesn't warn either
22:20:47 <avdg> I open content download and can click on select upgrade
22:21:01 <avdg> it selects only opengfx, download done
22:21:15 <avdg> close and open that window and I can download it again
22:21:47 <planetmaker> avdg: that's not the OpenGFX nightly you need
22:22:00 <planetmaker> they are not available from online content
22:22:12 <Rubidium> avdg: yeah... OpenTTD "only" finds the newest OpenGFX when starting and as the nightly is not the same as the one on bananas it thinks you don't have it
22:22:14 <planetmaker> and the release of the next version is scheduled not yet
22:22:42 <avdg> but it can detect its a modified version of it right?
22:22:56 <planetmaker> base sets have version information
22:23:25 <Rubidium> avdg: it notices you don't have the same version and the version in bananas is considered to be the newest version
22:23:51 <planetmaker> correction: release is scheduled but not imminent ;-)
22:24:10 <avdg> hm.. how to get the version of opengfx?
22:24:24 <planetmaker> bundles.openttdcoop.org/opengfx
22:24:26 <Rubidium> open the game options window
22:24:37 <Rubidium> at the end of the description you'll have the version
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22:25:04 <planetmaker> that's new enough
22:25:31 <avdg> hmm and no1 can reproduce that error?
22:25:42 <Rubidium> I can, but only with old OpenGFXes
22:26:14 <Rubidium> avdg: any patches you might not have mentioned to us?
22:26:16 <CIA-2> OpenTTD: yexo * r20604 /trunk/src/ (4 files in 3 dirs): -Feature: add a reset button to the newgrf parameters window
22:26:48 <avdg> I can rebuild if you want it
22:28:47 <CIA-2> OpenTTD: rubidium * r20605 /trunk/src/ (livery.h newgrf_engine.cpp vehicle.cpp vehicle_func.h): -Fix [FS#4063]: let NewGRFs var43 var (information about liveries) for vehicles not be influenced by the local setting determining whether to show liveries or not.
22:29:34 <avdg> pm witch version are you using?
22:30:09 <planetmaker> OpenGFX r502M :-P and OpenTTD r20602
22:30:11 <Rubidium> witches have nothing to do with OpenTTD :)
22:30:26 <Rubidium> planetmaker: heh, we're using the same OpenGFX! :)
22:31:57 <planetmaker> I see only a huge empty screen and two train windows
22:32:53 <elho> 249 km/h is the lowest i see, but with the steps being 226 and 252, it seems to try and slow down to 226 km/h which would correspond to 4 vehicles between 2 turns, which is too far off to be a corner case. :o
22:33:25 <elho> planetmaker: train 87 is the one you see in the center
22:33:43 <Rubidium> that seems to behave like mentioned in the game mechanics page
22:33:54 <Rubidium> When making two or more 45° turns in the same direction, the max speed is limited as follows: [big table]
22:34:00 <planetmaker> basically I mean: provide a savegame, if you wonder about train behaviour ;-)
22:34:10 <Rubidium> but under monorail it lists 226 and 252
22:34:22 <Rubidium> which means you're hitting those limits
22:34:28 <planetmaker> oh, listen to Rubidium :-)
22:34:58 <Rubidium> the limits differ per railtype, so monorail can corner faster than normal trains and maglevs can corner faster than monorail
22:34:58 <planetmaker> forget the savegame
22:35:51 <elho> no, i am not following the simplified table, but the game source
22:36:25 <planetmaker> maybe the comment there is wrong?
22:36:34 <elho> initial calculation is the same for all railtypes, in the end it is just speep + speed/2 for monorail
22:39:57 <elho> and the initial calculation is based on how many vehicles go are between the first and last turn. that number is divided by turns-1 and used as x in that (232-(13-x)^2 formula. that converted to km/h gives the displayed speed
22:41:56 <elho> but the whole point here is, that it goes at 275km/h most of the time, which is exactly what above calculation gives, but in some cases slows down, but on different turns. so that same point it goes 249 km/h it would go 275km/h the next round
22:42:06 <elho> _that_ is the weird part
22:44:20 <CIA-2> OpenTTD: yexo * r20606 /trunk/src/ai/ai_scanner.cpp: -Change [FS#4042]: change the debug level of the "Registering two AIs/libraries with the same name and version" message from 0 to 1
22:44:23 <avdg> rubidium: could it be a failed attemp?
22:45:05 <Rubidium> avdg: failed attempt of what?
22:45:31 <avdg> donno, version mismatch/ download&install or anything related
22:45:49 <planetmaker> got a savegame, elho ?
22:46:00 <Rubidium> avdg: OpenTTD should always use the latest OpenGFX it finds
22:46:25 <Rubidium> and if you really got OpenGFX r502, then it should be fine
22:46:31 <Rubidium> otherwise I have absolutely no clue
22:47:22 <elho> planetmaker: i'll do one...
22:53:55 <planetmaker> elho: as you post screenshots, you should do have a savegame...
22:54:27 <Rubidium> planetmaker: looks like one of those 10 MiB savegames
22:54:44 <planetmaker> those of course are the best to test...
22:55:19 <avdg> ok, I've removed the nightly and now it matches fine, strange
22:56:27 <elho> planetmaker: i did a fresh one in a newly started game, so it is a) smaller and b) not my old savegame just broken or sth.
22:57:29 <Rubidium> it does seem to slow down reliably before each corner
22:57:43 <Rubidium> well, each second corner
22:59:11 <Ammler> avdg: but now you get the red message box
22:59:57 * avdg thinks he does something stopid, but can't find any clue
22:59:59 <Ammler> so either have that or the "wrong" msg from content gui
23:00:12 <elho> here i count up to 6 corners without slowdown. or 3-4 corners after reaching 275 km/h before it slows down again
23:00:39 <Rubidium> elho: what version are you using?
23:00:45 <elho> maybe something fixed after 1.0.1
23:01:07 <avdg> yep, unpack and same problem
23:01:37 <avdg> does the location really matters, openttd can find it so I guess there is no problem
23:02:06 <Ammler> my openttd crashes, if I try to load ogfx nightly
23:02:09 <Rubidium> avdg: in the Game Options window it shows "OpenGFX blablalba r502"?
23:02:15 <planetmaker> elho: it slows down always when it's on a / or \ track (the ones parallel to the grid)
23:02:33 <planetmaker> when it reaches the 2nd corner of that
23:02:46 <planetmaker> and it accelerates when it leaves the 1st
23:03:14 <Ammler> the ottd crashes because my ogfx-nightly is compiled with the broken pcx :-)
23:03:37 <planetmaker> how can it be compiled with broken pcx?
23:03:40 <Ammler> planetmaker: one of the grfs is missing
23:04:13 <planetmaker> didn't make terminate?
23:04:32 <Rubidium> planetmaker: remember the cat thing I talked about?
23:04:43 <elho> planetmaker: does it slow to 249 for you, too?
23:05:29 <Ammler> omg, that was really strange
23:06:33 <planetmaker> when the head hits the 2nd corner of the 3-tile straight track pieces
23:07:29 <planetmaker> accelerates continuously to 275 up to when it's about to leave the 1st corner of that 3-tile straight track piece with its rear engine
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23:07:40 <elho> makes more sense, as that is >=252 (the next step below 275)
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23:08:03 <avdg> I have no clue what to do now
23:08:14 <planetmaker> and then up to 291 when it's about to hit the 2nd corner of the next short track piece
23:08:33 <planetmaker> try with a nightly first
23:09:22 <Rubidium> avdg: me neither, and reporting something that we can't reproduce won't help much
23:09:42 <elho> uh, 291. never goes faster than 275 here. faster trains, now if that isn't a reason to upgrade... ;D
23:09:44 <Rubidium> as "not able to reproduce" == "not able to fix"
23:10:32 <avdg> but should I submit it or not then?
23:10:59 <Ammler> avdg: openttd works, the problem you have is only that if you check content service, it tells you that opengfx isn't downloaded, right?
23:11:33 <planetmaker> oh, not the missing sprite thing?
23:11:37 <Rubidium> oh, so this isn't the warning about missing sprites anymore?
23:11:40 <Ammler> so that is because opengfx nightly is newer as newest bananas, that is all
23:11:45 <planetmaker> I thought you were talking about missing sprites all the time...
23:12:39 <avdg> but openttd has still downloaded something what already isn installed
23:13:08 <planetmaker> Just don't download it (again and again)
23:13:16 <Ammler> openttd just thinks, because your newest version doesn't match banans newest, it should download again
23:13:29 <avdg> how does it compare then
23:13:33 <planetmaker> (which is rather a bananas bug)
23:13:52 <Ammler> in this case it is our ;-)
23:13:59 <Rubidium> avdg: version + md5 on bananas == version + md5 locally, no: then you don't have it
23:14:12 <Rubidium> which somewhat backfires if you use nightlies
23:14:20 <avdg> and it only checks with the loaded ones
23:14:39 <planetmaker> Rubidium: but what does it do with newgrf and savegames: there it checks all versions
23:14:44 <Ammler> yes, and it loads only the newest
23:15:20 <Rubidium> planetmaker: for opengfx/openmsx/opensfx it doesn't
23:15:54 <planetmaker> I guess it would have to keep a list otherwise
23:15:56 <avdg> I still consider it as a bug, openttd shouldn't redownload content
23:16:02 <planetmaker> or re-scan the whole dirs
23:16:30 <planetmaker> though I'd prefer to have something resident. Re-scans are somewhat lengthy at times
23:16:45 <elho> planetmaker: still, with the straight 3 tiles fitting 6 vehicles. it should not go less than 275 there either, so there must be a glitch where the game for a moment sees only 5 vehicles between that 2 corners
23:16:47 <Rubidium> planetmaker: DV is working on that
23:16:48 <avdg> I don't want to check between 100 files what is banana's whats not
23:16:56 <Ammler> avdg: if you are used to nightlies, you are aware of it :-)
23:17:31 <Rubidium> so... you want a "feature" that tells you: you have a newer version of a base set than the one on bananas. You can't download it
23:17:32 <avdg> remembering is too much ;-)
23:17:40 <Rubidium> planetmaker: Darkvater
23:17:51 <Rubidium> last time he was here he said he would write it
23:17:52 <planetmaker> so my guess wasn't wrong
23:18:11 <planetmaker> hm... last time... that's looong ago unless I missed it
23:19:28 <Ammler> uploading a nightly for the nightlies would solve it :-P
23:19:49 <elho> heh, when i add another vehlicle (13 instead of 12) the train just goes fine at a constant 273km/h :o
23:20:59 <planetmaker> hm. 123 players playing 1.0.3 online :-)
23:21:56 <avdg> there are more servers then players :p
23:22:06 <planetmaker> not 1.0.3, I think
23:22:47 <PeterT> I have 5 players in total on my 4 servers
23:22:50 <avdg> donno howmany players are playing at the bussiest moment
23:22:57 <PeterT> Luukland steals all the clients :P
23:24:58 * avdg thinks it will be more correct must it be listed by players online, filtered by version
23:26:05 <planetmaker> well, Luukland doesn't steal our players :-)
23:26:44 <avdg> but our players are more technical skilled (right?)
23:26:55 <planetmaker> though it'd be nice, if those goal server guys would actually openly develop their patches
23:27:17 <avdg> then force them to do it
23:27:33 <planetmaker> and yes, our players are more skilled
23:27:42 <avdg> its actually hard I think
23:27:50 <avdg> its again managing patches
23:28:05 <planetmaker> I tested. We won two games in a row when we joined them :-)
23:28:26 <Eddi|zuHause> YOU are cheating ;)
23:28:59 <Rubidium> I would start by modifying my binary to send bogus error messages attached to the commands. If their code is like the stuff on the forum I'll get around all limitations :)
23:29:40 <Rubidium> ouch... bananas doesn't store/use the version from the ob[sgm] files, so can't query that
23:29:48 <planetmaker> hmmm 'bogus error messages attached to commands'?
23:30:05 <Rubidium> so to "fix" the multiple downloading issue I'd have to keep information about all base sets, even the ones we're not going to use, in memory
23:30:49 <planetmaker> Rubidium: can't you just store the current version?
23:31:00 <planetmaker> and do a if bananas < current?
23:31:03 <avdg> what about file checking?
23:31:15 <avdg> or is that "too expensive"
23:31:45 <Eddi|zuHause> file checking is done by md5sum, it can't tell you which one is newer
23:32:17 <Eddi|zuHause> yes. please do blitzquit on me! :)
23:32:31 <Eddi|zuHause> avdg: file checking is done by md5sum, it can't tell you which one is newer
23:32:56 <avdg> so it has to calculate all stuff again :(
23:33:31 <avdg> fmauNeko's server gives me a lot irc disconnects :p
23:34:14 <Rubidium> planetmaker: bananas does not store the version, so I can't compare the bananas version
23:34:25 <Rubidium> unless I go into string comparision, which is definitely going to fail
23:34:37 <planetmaker> Rubidium: can't that be changed / added there with not too much effort?
23:35:27 <planetmaker> only for future uploads would suffice IMHO
23:35:29 <avdg> you've still got filesize, but I guess everybody will hate it :p
23:35:54 <planetmaker> that is no version indicator
23:35:57 <Eddi|zuHause> avdg: what sense would that make?
23:36:04 <planetmaker> nor os independent
23:36:21 <avdg> donno, just random minds
23:36:27 <Eddi|zuHause> avdg: filesize is a waaaay "weaker" indicator than md5sum, and it can't order by version either
23:36:43 <avdg> someone could just modify bytes
23:36:45 <Eddi|zuHause> it doesn't make any sense at all
23:37:26 <Eddi|zuHause> hm... are there known md5sum collisions?
23:38:53 <avdg> whops, thats what I call a fail :/
23:39:23 <avdg> but I guess md5 is still usable for fles
23:40:13 <ccfreak2k> avdg, MD5 with file size.
23:40:32 <ccfreak2k> The chance of two files with identical length AND identical hashes are astronomically low.
23:40:36 <avdg> didn't you read the hack
23:41:39 <planetmaker> ccfreak2k: the page describes just that ;-)
23:41:47 <planetmaker> you can force that actually
23:42:10 <avdg> :p its still astronomically low that the grf file is still readable
23:42:29 <ccfreak2k> I'm guessing PE allows garbage data at the end of the file.
23:43:21 <ccfreak2k> Well, at least there's SHA256 for now.
23:43:37 <avdg> you are still stuck with the md5 but I think there is indeed nothing else that can replace it
23:44:46 <avdg> I'm complaining too much, am I? :p
23:45:55 <Rubidium> no, you're going on about one subject and then without saying you solved that issue you continue onto the next while half of the channel still tries to figure out your first issue
23:47:20 * avdg calls hisself dumb programmer
23:48:56 <PeterT> <SN1> Medvedus (White): I just want to play realistic :)
23:48:56 <PeterT> <SN1> Altus (Purple): and your definition of realistic is extortion and bribery?
23:49:28 <CIA-2> OpenTTD: rubidium * r20607 /trunk/src/ (base_media_base.h base_media_func.h): -Fix: retain information about all base sets that are found and not only the latest version. This to stop confusing people that use newer versions of the base sets than those available via BaNaNaS.
23:52:01 <avdg> again its rubidium that fixed it :)
23:53:25 <avdg> hmm… I think I have to come up with a name about what I'm doing :p
23:53:45 <avdg> something like "being dumb"
23:54:37 <Eddi|zuHause> how about "applicant for The List"?
23:57:01 <Rubidium> planetmaker: no, the list of people to burn/drown
23:57:37 <planetmaker> someone got some wood?
23:57:56 <orudge> I believe you can find Torchwood there
23:59:13 <Rubidium> orudge: IIRC that was kinda torched
23:59:28 <orudge> but I never said when you should go to Cardiff
continue to next day ⏵
