IRC logs for #openttd on OFTC at 2010-08-03
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01:11:00 <TruePikachu> Anyone here know when the first cab-control compatable locomotive in NARS gets invented and what it is?
01:13:35 <TruePikachu> * Make that NARS2
01:24:52 <TruePikachu> For some reason, I don't have anything from after 1969 in NARS2
01:25:08 <TruePikachu> (in the case of locomotives)
01:25:24 <TruePikachu> It's 1981 right now
01:25:42 <TruePikachu> I've already tried a resetengines
01:26:08 <TruePikachu> Does the UI have a limit on the number of vehicals it can show in the buy list?
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01:58:04 <TruePikachu> B/me is having trouble with NARS2
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02:15:15 <VVG> TruePikachu: Are you buying locos in el-rail depot?
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04:05:12 <TruePikachu> VVG: (Re: problems w/ NARS2) They aren't even showing up on the 'availible vehicals' list
04:06:12 <TruePikachu> I don't know what the problem is, I've tried everything I can think of
04:06:27 <TruePikachu> I ended up e-mailing a copy of the savegame to PikkaBird
04:06:30 *** Lokimaros is now known as Mazur
04:09:11 <TruePikachu> Still no reply to the e-mail I sent about 2-3hr ago, so I'll check tommorrow
04:09:47 * TruePikachu 's game of OpenTTD is on hold until the problem is fixed
04:17:14 <VVG> rapidshare your savegame here, i can check if 20279 version of mine have any problems
04:18:52 <TruePikachu> *don't have an account for RapidShare
04:19:12 <TruePikachu> I may be able to DCC it...
04:20:08 <VVG> rapidshare doesn't neet registration
04:20:58 * TruePikachu always thought it did...brb (and I'll need to load IRSSI into Konsole)
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04:22:56 <TruePikachu> (for some reason, I only get 1 connection to OFTC)
04:24:20 <TruePikachu> For some reason, the browse dialog is trying /usr/bin
04:25:50 <TruePikachu> <I msg'd the link to VVG cuz it only gets 10 downloads>
04:26:55 <TruePikachu> VVG: Status on the download?
04:28:53 <TruePikachu> You should be able to get all the GRFs off of BaNaNaS
04:35:44 <TruePikachu> I don't think the problem is a UI limit anymore, just counted and 65 wagons are shown; if it was UI, there would only be 64=2^6
04:35:51 <VVG> It's due to your NARS parameter settings
04:36:11 <VVG> setting them all to 0 produced a proper vehicle list
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04:36:49 <TruePikachu> ...If the second one is a 0, it is supposed to completly disable NARS for all enviorments
04:37:12 <VVG> i did take a glance at parameter page
04:37:51 <VVG> but still, the "problem" is with parameters settings
04:38:06 <TruePikachu> Hmm...I'll investigate
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04:40:46 <VVG> Feature request: make it possible to remove parameters altogether with new parameter setup gui
04:42:53 <TruePikachu> Hmm...I just enabled regearing, and it's fixed. Bad design, where disabling regearing also disables the regearable locomotives...
04:43:28 <TruePikachu> VVG: That would require an additional file in each NewGRF tarball
04:43:58 <VVG> i think you misunderstood me
04:44:07 <TruePikachu> Parameter Setup GUI would need to know what each parameter from the NewGRF's point of view is for
04:44:28 <TruePikachu> The file would source the description and UI
04:44:38 <TruePikachu> What did you mean?
04:45:42 <VVG> with old metod you could just delete all parameters and leave it it up to newgrf to decide what to do. With new gui one you set parameters, they will be always there, atleast i don't see a way to remove them. Only choice i see to remove/add back the newgrf in question
04:46:10 <TruePikachu> Oh, keeping the parameters persistant?
04:46:32 <TruePikachu> If it's post-1.0.3, no
04:46:53 <VVG> it's in latest nightlies only atm afaik
04:47:16 <TruePikachu> What a pity :( 1.0.3 was just released
04:47:39 <TruePikachu> We Stable players have to wait a whole nother month :(
04:49:16 * TruePikachu wants joinable depots
04:49:42 <TruePikachu> They would make my 'Depot Bypass Node's more efficient
04:49:48 <VVG> as in enter into one leave from another?
04:50:09 <TruePikachu> Possibility of that. Mainly just for sharing the contained wagons
04:50:50 * TruePikachu finds it annoying that for the DBNs he disassembles a train in one, and sends a different train to the DBN and it enters the wrong depot
04:51:16 <VVG> no idea what you want to achieve with that
04:51:32 <TruePikachu> Saves buying new wagons all the time
04:51:55 <TruePikachu> In that savegame, you can actually find a few of those nodes
04:52:15 <TruePikachu> I mainly use the type just outside the SW-most station
04:52:29 <TruePikachu> That's the kind I mainly have the problem with
04:52:45 <TruePikachu> Joining depots would make this simpler to manage
04:53:29 <TruePikachu> Also, notice that the entering signal is PBS, allowing trains to enter one depot while trains leave the other
04:54:17 <TruePikachu> Joins would make it so the depots could be arranged as a tunnel instead of across from each other like they are
04:54:46 <TruePikachu> But this will probably have to wait until 1.1.0
04:55:17 * TruePikachu shrugs and fights with the map generator for a good map
04:55:44 <VVG> since you don't have breakdowns on, i don't see a need for depots but to spawn new trains
04:56:01 * TruePikachu also wants the ability to edit the map for free before starting the game itself, similar to in SimCity 3000
04:56:14 <TruePikachu> VVG: AutoReplace and AutoRenew
04:56:15 <VVG> and you have enough money to no care about cash anymore
04:56:37 <TruePikachu> Well, the tracks also serve to flip around a train
04:56:56 <TruePikachu> And my company was in the $2 value for quite a while
04:56:57 <VVG> scenario editor is a way to edit the map for free
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04:57:38 <VVG> anyway, you play differently from me, so i don't really understand your needs
04:58:19 * TruePikachu is still new, started at the release of 1.0.0 or 1.0.1, I think the latter, but I could be wrong
04:58:40 <TruePikachu> And haven't played for quite a while
04:59:04 <TruePikachu> But this is pretty much the only game I have on this computer
04:59:30 <TruePikachu> (Frotz doesn't count)
04:59:56 <VVG> I like ottdcoop style networks, there you don't really care about autorenew or autoreplace
05:00:17 <TruePikachu> Heh, my networks are also partially based off the Coop
05:00:25 <TruePikachu> Except they are much slower
05:00:46 <TruePikachu> I need AutoReplace to help upgrade to faster wagons
05:01:29 <VVG> Starting in 2100 removes that problem :p
05:01:33 <TruePikachu> And I get massive traffic jams also, which are fun to clean up (and I'm being serious there, it should be a stand-alone minigame)
05:01:57 <TruePikachu> It's fun cleaning up a jam without causing a wreck
05:02:20 <TruePikachu> Especially that one near CDH Mines
05:02:33 <TruePikachu> (Well, there was one there)
05:03:08 <TruePikachu> Trains didn't have enough HP to go up the slope to the station
05:03:31 <TruePikachu> At least not very quickly, and this was when there was 1 in and 1 out track
05:03:35 <VVG> default coal mine can grop up to 2300 production value
05:03:53 <VVG> and it's more fun growing industry than placing a bunch of them around one station :p
05:03:55 <TruePikachu> The east-most mine there is my record, ad 450 IIRC
05:04:23 <TruePikachu> And that was from random growths, I connected at 350 or so
05:04:38 * TruePikachu has trouble growing industries
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05:05:29 <TruePikachu> Hmmm...how long does it take to run 150 years, in hours
05:05:53 <TruePikachu> (150 years game time, in real-time-clock hours)
05:06:25 <TruePikachu> You think about 72?
05:06:33 <TruePikachu> *wait, way less than that
05:07:22 * TruePikachu will try a 1900-2050 game tomorrow, and generate the map tonight
05:07:29 <VVG> seeing that some people like daylenght patch, 150 years go by quite fast i say :)
05:07:46 * TruePikachu doesn't use patches, just GRFs
05:07:57 <TruePikachu> I hate compiling from source
05:08:18 * TruePikachu doesn't know how many times he's used that line here before
05:08:20 <VVG> it's different when you go for big network or try to play from 1900 or something into the future
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05:09:12 <TruePikachu> Well, standard game ends 2050, and I will try from 1900
05:09:30 <VVG> you can play as long as you want
05:09:32 <TruePikachu> High Score Chart does
05:10:25 <VVG> some people don't care about score chart, only about their network :)
05:10:25 <TruePikachu> Anyway, I'm going to scrap the current game, as all my trains are set to full load all, and I can't load regearings (thx WallyWeb for that bug report ;D)
05:11:13 <TruePikachu> What is the exact point? What is the goal?
05:11:27 <TruePikachu> Why am I asking stupid questions? (cuz I just realised)
05:11:32 <VVG> different people -> different goals
05:11:56 <TruePikachu> No, the goal is to get 1000 points
05:13:06 * TruePikachu thinks OpenTTD should allow for scenerios similar to Railroad Tycoon 2/3
05:13:12 <VVG> ottd is a sandbox, goal is whatever you fancy
05:14:54 * TruePikachu just figured out how to type ASCII chars into Linux
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07:33:48 <dihedral> oh - a yorick - hello there!
07:34:04 <dihedral> you must be 16 now, right?
07:34:13 <dihedral> or did i miss a year
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07:59:48 <yorick> dihedral: you missed a year :)
08:00:16 <yorick> actually only two months
08:02:11 <dihedral> well - birthday 2 months ago (i take it)
08:02:55 <yorick> no, 2 months in the future :P
08:03:31 <__ln__> birthday every 2 months?
08:04:27 <yorick> my birthday is sept 26
08:10:08 <CIA-2> OpenTTD: rubidium * r20334 /trunk/ (5 files in 3 dirs): -Codechange: reorder the unmovable bits a bit for futher extension
08:16:18 <CIA-2> OpenTTD: rubidium * r20335 /trunk/src/ (saveload/afterload.cpp unmovable_cmd.cpp unmovable_map.h): -Codechange: change the name of some unmovable map accessors
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08:33:10 <CIA-2> OpenTTD: rubidium * r20336 /trunk/src/ (4 files in 2 dirs): -Codechange: rework the HQ updating
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08:58:24 <CIA-2> OpenTTD: rubidium * r20337 /trunk/src/ (5 files in 2 dirs): -Codechange: unify the construction of objects on the map
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11:17:20 <Nite> what to do when an online game thinks that there is a client connecting forever - but - there isn't, and so the game is paused?
11:17:58 <Goulp> Nite: what openttd release ?
11:19:12 <Ammler> or disable pause_on_join
11:19:30 <Goulp> yeap but other clients will not be able to join
11:20:21 <Ammler> add a feature request, that openttd does autokick people with lag > 1000 or so
11:20:42 <Nite> a player joined he now has 2 companies of the same color ... game paused
11:22:06 <Ammler> Nite: what does status tell?
11:22:26 <Nite> you can go to the alfton tropic nars server to see
11:22:44 <Ammler> that is a rcon command
11:22:46 <Nite> iam not admin there so i cant do the status i think
11:23:06 <Goulp> Nite: Bad server - change server
11:23:16 <Ammler> oh well, then the answer is speak to the admin
11:23:33 <Nite> it just kicked the bugegd companies
11:23:52 <Ammler> you can kick company, but you don't have rcon?
11:24:32 <Nite> guess there is a timeout when a player is connecting 4 2 long
11:24:56 <Ammler> yep, there "should" be something like that, but sometimes, it doesn't work
11:25:05 <Ammler> we weren't able to reproduce though
11:27:01 <Nite> might be hard to reproduce - there was a company wich was conencting forever but you could join it then it got your color when you where in it, or the color of the last one joined
11:28:25 <Ammler> if you do status, sometimes you have clients with frame-lag around 50k rising...
11:29:11 <Ammler> not sure, if that is still the case in trunk or >1.0.1
11:30:35 <Rubidium> they should all be kicked after a few hundred ticks
11:36:11 <CIA-2> OpenTTD: rubidium * r20338 /trunk/src/ (table/unmovable_land.h unmovable_cmd.cpp): -Codechange: unify the unmovable tile drawing
11:36:49 <Nite> well the clients where kicked - so it worked somehow - it was no lag problem though because the client causing this was connected, only the game created an additional company (which was deleted ofter the kick) which shared the color of someone in it ...
11:37:55 <Nite> since it only caused probs for few minutes - its ok now ...
11:39:38 <CIA-2> OpenTTD: rubidium * r20339 /trunk/src/ (table/unmovable_land.h unmovable_cmd.cpp): -Codechange: reorder the HQ drawing data so it's in a slightly more logical order from the map array's point of view.
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12:00:08 <V453000> I have a problem, when I load a savegame from a server, it generates a new game instead
12:01:46 <Ammler> how to rescan newgrfs with console?
12:01:56 <Yexo> you're trying to load a savegame but don't have all newgrfs
12:02:13 <Yexo> for a server you need to have the exact same grf as the game was created with
12:04:51 <Ammler> I grepped the source, there seems no rescan for other things than ais
12:08:07 <CIA-2> OpenTTD: rubidium * r20340 /trunk/src/ (4 files in 2 dirs): -Codechange: introduce some flags for objects and use them in some places
12:08:57 <Yexo> Ammler: I think currently not possible
12:09:07 <Yexo> would be nice if you could write a patch for that :)
12:09:26 <Ammler> I make a restart custom command then, might be easier :-P
12:10:23 <Ammler> we have the same problem, when we update the server anyway
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12:36:17 <Nite> phew - i keep explaining new players what shared orders are ...
12:36:45 <Nite> they are quite held secret, which they shouldnt because are veeeeery useful
12:37:02 <CIA-2> OpenTTD: rubidium * r20341 /trunk/src/ (economy.cpp unmovable.h unmovable_cmd.cpp): -Codechange: pass the tile of the HQ instead of the company to UpdateCompanyHQ
12:37:12 <DorpsGek> dihedral: Alberth was last seen in #openttd 5 hours, 30 minutes, and 20 seconds ago: <Alberth> good morning
12:41:36 <CIA-2> OpenTTD: rubidium * r20342 /trunk/src/ (table/unmovable_land.h unmovable_cmd.cpp): -Codechange: unify the construction of objects
12:47:26 <CIA-2> OpenTTD: rubidium * r20343 /trunk/src/unmovable_cmd.cpp: -Fix (r20342): don't start svn commit too early... it won't see the later changes
12:54:31 <CIA-2> OpenTTD: yexo * r20344 /trunk/src/console_cmds.cpp: -Feature: add rescan_newgrf console command
12:57:36 <Nite> dumdidum - shared orders are hard to explain in written words ...
12:58:46 <dihedral> Nite: you are repeating yourself!
13:03:37 <CIA-2> OpenTTD: rubidium * r20345 /trunk/src/unmovable_cmd.cpp: -Codechange: unify removing of objects a bit more
13:07:59 <Moses> Is there a script which runs every month?
13:08:18 <Moses> or are there just the "on_server_scr"?
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13:14:08 <dihedral> i know there is a on_yearly, Moses
13:15:58 <Vitus> Hello, I'm just wondering: are the latest commits part of something bigger or just code cleanup? :)
13:16:30 <Rubidium> code cleanup and documentation, just check the last three days of commits...
13:16:48 <Rubidium> it's kinda a late spring clean
13:17:07 <glx> but it's an important thing to do :)
13:23:48 <Eddi|zuHause> (the more they deny it being something big, the more likely it actually is :p)
13:26:27 <Yexo> r20323 is not important, I repeat, it's NOT important at all
13:26:36 <Yexo> just don't start looking at it now
13:27:09 * dihedral wonders if Yexo is now watching the webserver logs :-D
13:27:18 <Yexo> I really with I could do that :p
13:29:05 <dihedral> sounds a bit like a mazda revision ^^
13:32:15 <CIA-2> OpenTTD: yexo * r20346 /trunk/src/ (ai/ai_scanner.cpp newgrf_config.cpp tar_type.h): -Change: scan for tar files before scanning for AIs/NewGRFs so new AIs/NewGRFs inside a tar file are found
13:32:24 <Moses> anybody knows how i can end a game by company value? something like a goal?
13:32:46 <Yexo> you'll need to modify the source code to do that (currently)
13:33:02 <dihedral> talking of the devil ey?
13:35:37 <dihedral> in theory you could do that with ap+ by teaching it to monitor the company values every second e.g. ^^
13:41:19 <dihedral> Moses: which OS are you using?
13:42:27 <dihedral> if you want to run the openttd srever of windows xp and manage to get ap+ to run there too, then you are good ^^
13:42:52 <Moses> i dont think i am good.
13:43:36 <dihedral> if that defines good, then i am not either :-P
13:43:49 <dihedral> but to be honest, i did not work on ap+ for it to run on xp
13:45:08 <Moses> i just want to end a game if company value reaches a predefined value... and this should be easy...
13:45:34 <Moses> but after long hours of google usage i dont think that it is easy.
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13:46:29 <Yexo> Moses: as I said before, you'll have to modify the source code of the server and then compile it
13:46:53 <Yexo> how hard that is depends on whether you've programmed/compiled something before
13:47:08 <Moses> i know something about c++ and php
13:47:40 <Moses> where do i get the source code?
13:47:59 <dihedral> and how quickly you will give up, or if you can presevere ;-)
13:53:55 <dihedral> __ln__: it's not a charger, it injects batterypower into electric circuits in buildings. if enough people do it you do not need as many power plants :-P
13:59:09 <Eddi|zuHause> i should really talk to steve jobs about my idea to sell throw-away-drinking-cups with an apple logo.
14:03:04 <ccfreak2k> You know, those stationary bicycle things for excercise would probably be better if they generated energy back into the house.
14:14:12 <Noldo> where do you think the energy is going then?
14:14:19 <Noldo> if not back to the house as heat
14:14:39 <glx> heat is a waste of energy
14:17:58 <Moses> a lot of guys type "!resetme" on my server, is this a AP+ command? and can i add this without ap+?
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14:38:05 <Nite> such bicycles invented already ... its hard 2 b creative ...
14:39:52 <Nite> wenn its -20° outside heat is no waste ...
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14:47:10 <Ammler> Moses: no, quess a Goal-server command
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15:21:22 <Ammler> is someone able to dwonload content 1049 from bananas?
15:22:04 <Goulp> this is after 1048 and before 1050
15:23:59 <Ammler> what it is, I just downloaded all
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15:24:46 <Rubidium> Ammler: check that with the console thingy
15:25:38 <Yexo> 1049 is "Scotland 1900" scenario
15:26:15 <Rubidium> it downloads for me; it just doesn't see it as being downloaded
15:27:10 <Goulp> marked as download after downloading
15:27:12 <Ammler> yes, the scenario is in the content folder
15:27:35 <Zuu> Goulp: Try re-open the content download window.
15:28:39 <Ammler> Goulp: yes, the console tells that and the scenario is there, but next time, it does again download
15:28:41 <Goulp> cant see it in the window
15:29:46 <Rubidium> it was missing the md5 checksum in the database
15:30:23 <Goulp> can see in the window list as heighmap
15:31:05 <Rubidium> Ammler: in any case... it downloads for me and is (now) shown as downloaded
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15:59:16 <CIA-2> OpenTTD: rubidium * r20347 /extra/masterserver_updater/src/shared/mysql.cpp: [MSU] -Change: don't wait on download statistics insertions
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16:17:31 <Zuu> Does the expression "the better half" exist in English? As in a score table, you select the better half.
16:18:33 <Zuu> Or is it just not considered as good written language to use the expression "the better half"?
16:20:39 <Eddi|zuHause> i'd think "the better half" means your wife ;)
16:20:54 <svip> What if you are a woman?
16:21:03 <svip> Or is that unlikely for an OpenTTD player?
16:21:56 <Eddi|zuHause> i actually met Zuu, i'm certain that he's not a woman.
16:22:15 <Nite> you mean she is not a woman ;)
16:23:05 <Zuu> Thanks, then I perhaps shall not use that expresion. :-)
16:23:30 <svip> I think 'The Top Half' is more appropriate.
16:24:18 <Nite> and the better half does mean there?
16:25:13 <svip> I know in Danish if you say 'my better half', you mean your spouse.
16:25:13 <Nite> the better half means the better half is not an explanation, really ?
16:25:33 <Nite> in german you mean that too (as said)
16:26:05 <Zuu> Eg. have a selection of items, and select a subset of them that are better than the non-selected items. Make the size of subset approximately half of the whole set.
16:26:16 <Nite> i guess in sweden it means the 50% of people who are playing better?
16:26:17 <svip> I'd use 'seleect the best'.
16:27:58 <Nite> or "better halfes" (with S)
16:29:00 <Zuu> Hmm, I'll probably resort to explicitly write the number. As in: The six best roundabouts was selected...
16:30:34 <Zuu> It's not a page, it's a thesis report
16:31:33 <Rubidium> Zuu: then it's simple: if you don't know, rewrite the sentence
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16:38:28 <CIA-2> OpenTTD: rubidium * r20348 /trunk/src/ai/api/ (ai_marine.cpp ai_marine.hpp): -Fix [FS#4004]: [NoAI] Ship depots were constructed along the wrong axis
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16:42:59 <CIA-2> OpenTTD: rubidium * r20349 /trunk/src/table/unmovable_land.h: -Fix: don't pay stuff you didn't have to pay for previously :)
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17:46:07 <CIA-2> OpenTTD: translators * r20350 /trunk/src/lang/ (13 files in 2 dirs): (log message trimmed)
17:46:07 <CIA-2> OpenTTD: -Update from WebTranslator v3.0:
17:46:07 <CIA-2> OpenTTD: belarusian - 1070 changes by KorneySan, Wowanxm
17:46:08 <CIA-2> OpenTTD: simplified_chinese - 7 changes by pda1573
17:46:08 <CIA-2> OpenTTD: croatian - 2 changes by VoyagerOne
17:46:08 <CIA-2> OpenTTD: dutch - 2 changes by habell
17:46:08 <CIA-2> OpenTTD: finnish - 2 changes by jpx_
17:47:55 <CIA-2> OpenTTD: michi_cc * r20351 /trunk/src/water_cmd.cpp: -Codechange: Uncouple water lock and depot drawing.
17:48:17 <CIA-2> OpenTTD: michi_cc * r20352 /trunk/src/ (newgrf_canal.h water_cmd.cpp): -Add: [NewGRF] Support for property 09, feature 05, i.e alternate canal sprite layout.
17:48:19 <CIA-2> OpenTTD: michi_cc * r20353 /trunk/src/ (newgrf_canal.cpp newgrf_canal.h water_cmd.cpp): -Add: [NewGRF] Support for callback 0x147 ("add sprite offset") for canals.
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18:09:03 <CIA-2> OpenTTD: rubidium * r20354 /trunk/src/lang/unfinished/ (belarusian.txt urdu.txt): -Fix: some compilation errors in (unfinished) translations
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18:20:27 <Eddi|zuHause> so... why is it not belarussian?
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18:24:54 <Rubidium> Eddi|zuHause: to make the statement they're not part of Russia anymore I'd say
18:26:08 <Eddi|zuHause> i'm really not conviced by that :)
18:26:50 <Rubidium> well, it used to be Belarussian till they split from Russia
18:27:27 <Rubidium> and back then the country was called Belarussia, which they changed to Belarus
18:27:42 <Eddi|zuHause> it's still called "Weißrussland" in german
18:28:46 <__ln__> I think they split from the Soviet Union.
18:28:47 <frosch123> maybe weißrusland would be better
18:29:16 <frosch123> though weißrußland also looks interesting
18:29:21 <Yexo> <Eddi|zuHause> it's still called "Weißrussland" in german <- thanks to that I finally figured out what country it is :p
18:29:39 <CIA-2> OpenTTD: michi_cc * r20355 /trunk/src/newgrf_callbacks.h: -Fix (r20353): Stale comment.
18:29:57 <Eddi|zuHause> Yexo: well, "bela" means white
18:30:44 <frosch123> moscow has still a metro statio named after them, so...
18:30:49 <Moses> I now added the yearly.scr script to my script folder, but it doesnt work, any suggestions?
18:31:53 <Yexo> Moses: just adding a new script file to the scripts folder doesn't make openttd magically aware of that new script
18:33:06 <CIA-2> OpenTTD: rubidium * r20356 /trunk/src/ (lang/english.txt station_cmd.cpp): -Fix [FS#3983]: apparantly one generic error message can't be understood...
18:34:57 <Eddi|zuHause> __ln__: i really think they were part of russia much longer than the soviet union existed
18:35:24 <Eddi|zuHause> except the part that was part of poland...
18:36:32 <frosch123> The parliament of the republic declared the sovereignty of Belarus on 27 July 1990, and following the collapse of the Soviet Union, Belarus declared independence on 25 August 1991
18:37:47 <frosch123> or do you mean "longer" before the su?
18:38:57 <Moses> yexo: how to run this script?
18:39:38 <Yexo> Moses: by modifying the openttd code to run that script
18:39:51 * Yexo got the feeling I've said this before....
18:40:18 <Eddi|zuHause> frosch123: yes, i meant before...
18:40:55 <frosch123> Before 1267, the land not conquered by the Mongols was considered "White Rus". <- i guess you will have trouble with the definition of russia at that point
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18:41:48 <Eddi|zuHause> i guess "Russia" as a major power started about the time of Peter the great
18:41:56 <frosch123> (isn't quoting wiki siily?)
18:44:41 <Eddi|zuHause> i'm not entirely sure about this history, but i think the "rus" were originally a viking tribe, around 1241 the mongols konquered kiev, then went further west towards hungary, and after some struggle with the germans, went further south towards balkan
18:45:51 <Eddi|zuHause> and "ukraine" means something like "border"
18:46:26 <keoz> The "Rus'" (Vikings) installed in the Dniepr basin in the IX century, that's right
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18:54:48 <Eddi|zuHause> why the hell don't they manage to give EPG data 2 weeks in advance?
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19:32:59 <glx> Eddi|zuHause: so they can easily change schedules
19:33:39 <glx> and it's the same for paper TV programmes
19:33:48 <Eddi|zuHause> glx: but, it's exactly the same data as they would already have to set up ShowView or give to the "printed" TV guides
19:34:19 <Eddi|zuHause> they go ahead for 2 weeks (and a bit, considering that they have to be printed earlier)
19:34:44 <Eddi|zuHause> and there speaks nothing against changing the EPG data...
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20:31:45 * andythenorth ponders electricity
20:31:56 <andythenorth> would it actually be fun?
20:32:03 <andythenorth> or just more 'realism'
20:32:18 <frosch123> maybe "power supplies" as fourth supply cargo
20:32:32 <frosch123> produced by a donkey breeder in the early days
20:32:37 <andythenorth> it's a funny hack, but I'm not doing it :P
20:32:56 <andythenorth> jokes work on irc, but it's a bit much effort to write them in nfo
20:34:01 <Eddi|zuHause> man... i'm reading through "du" output, but it's not easy to find extraordinarily large files...
20:34:15 <Eddi|zuHause> it's just medicorely sized files that add up....
20:34:34 <frosch123> you should use du only with --max-depth
20:34:39 <Eddi|zuHause> and i'm not fond of the idea of "just deleting" a 76MB .svn directory...
20:34:48 <Zuu> Personally I think it is a good balance that coal that is so profitable is a bit boring and do not have a secondary industry after the power plant.
20:35:02 <frosch123> 76mb? i deleted 2gb from /usr/portage/distfiles today :p
20:35:13 <Zuu> I guess in FIRS coal has a bit more usage, but is still fairly profitable?
20:35:34 <Eddi|zuHause> frosch123: this is only contents of my remote ~
20:35:41 <frosch123> Zuu: good point, andy should drop the powerplant, and deliver coal directly as powersupply
20:35:58 <Eddi|zuHause> frosch123: i was told off for having 5.9GB of data in it...
20:36:06 <Eddi|zuHause> i'm now down to about 1.2GB
20:36:10 <frosch123> ah, your home folder :p
20:37:57 <Eddi|zuHause> frosch123: the line i used was "du -s * .* --exclude .. | sort -n"
20:38:25 <andythenorth> should sort it out
20:38:35 <Eddi|zuHause> andythenorth: for deleting svn checkouts, you really need -f
20:39:08 <andythenorth> power plant is gone from trunk FIRS
20:39:18 <andythenorth> and coal is *not* delivered as power supply :)
20:39:42 <Eddi|zuHause> hm... i liked power plants...
20:39:54 <frosch123> andythenorth: then deliver coal to houses or so
20:40:09 <frosch123> hmm, you have no house set yet, do you?
20:40:14 <Eddi|zuHause> frosch123: MB has a house set that does that
20:40:24 <andythenorth> I don't want a house set, thanks though :)
20:41:06 <andythenorth> if we get newgrf control of town growth factors, a house set becomes more attractive
20:42:11 <andythenorth> what would the spec be for newgrf town growth?
20:42:18 <frosch123> Eddi|zuHause: who cares?
20:42:23 <Eddi|zuHause> yes, makes the TaI kind of towns more useful
20:42:36 <frosch123> andythenorth: generic callbacks
20:42:46 <Eddi|zuHause> i mean ones that don't grow much beyond their historical/medieval borders
20:42:54 <andythenorth> I looked at the existing code for growth cargos
20:43:18 <andythenorth> so just specifying the growth cargos in newgrf is a bit too simple?
20:43:41 <andythenorth> I'm happy with the 'deliver 1 unit per month' behaviour
20:44:17 <frosch123> andythenorth: just add monthly cargo statistics to towns (similiar to stations), add a callback for towngrowth, and maybe some persistent registers
20:44:45 <andythenorth> towngrowth would work like industry production? increase or decrease?
20:45:03 <andythenorth> like monthly / random production change cb
20:45:12 <frosch123> no, more like the field planting/tree cutting
20:45:13 <andythenorth> could we close a town :P
20:46:53 <Eddi|zuHause> andythenorth: that would remove all industries nearby...
20:47:04 <Eddi|zuHause> and probably cause oddities with stations
20:47:14 <andythenorth> could be entertaining :D
20:47:22 <frosch123> Eddi|zuHause: bigger towns could eat smaller towns :p
20:47:22 <andythenorth> or realistic 9.9
20:47:58 <andythenorth> so with cbs we could check things like current date?
20:48:35 <frosch123> date, population, produced/delivered cargo, number of industries, number of serviced industries, distance to next town, ...
20:48:57 <andythenorth> uh oh, I sense some horribly complicated town sets :o
20:48:57 <Eddi|zuHause> frosch123: i was thinking of turning them into "suburbs"... they get different growth pattern (=more residents, less commerce), inherit the growth speed and the population is added to the "superiour" city
20:49:01 <frosch123> height, snowline, distance to water, ...
20:49:20 <andythenorth> how do existing towns shrink? I've seen it happen.
20:49:26 <frosch123> Eddi|zuHause: good point, callback for the townradii
20:50:02 <Nite> they shrink when the center is blocked (built on) ...
20:50:04 <frosch123> andythenorth: towns only remove houses when overbuilding with other stuff
20:50:12 <frosch123> so roads resp houses with less population
20:50:16 <andythenorth> 'someone' has lolled in my FIRS thread. what I said wasn't a lol-type thing though :P
20:50:24 <Eddi|zuHause> houses can close down on their own
20:50:33 <Eddi|zuHause> so more houses -> higher chance of one closing
20:50:34 <andythenorth> and not be replaced?
20:50:52 <frosch123> hmm, true, houses close down at certain ages
20:51:15 <Eddi|zuHause> that's why towns stagnate at some level
20:51:19 <andythenorth> so 'shrink' is not currently a town code feature?
20:51:39 <Eddi|zuHause> andythenorth: no, it's mainly house code
20:51:42 <Nite> again someone on a test-kind-of server placed a huge station in teh center of a also huge town - it shrunk rapidly
20:52:34 <frosch123> andythenorth: when a house removes itself there is a chance of 244/256 that a new house appear immediatelly
20:52:56 <andythenorth> I was thinking of (for example) returning 'shrink' to town if not enough of cargo x transported (waste for example)
20:53:28 <Nite> towns somehow need a connection to the center via roads to grow, if it isnt there it shrinks (i think)
20:53:32 <Yexo> reduce the 244/255 chance, then it'll shrink
20:53:40 <frosch123> andythenorth: if you can control the town-radii you can cause big houses to close down, and smaller ones to appear over time
20:54:22 <glx> Nite: they just need a road tile under the town name
20:54:30 <andythenorth> how to write this up?
20:54:53 <Nite> and a connection to the road tile
20:54:59 <frosch123> i.e. the town defines the class of buildings via the town radii, but it is up to the regular newhouses stuff to decide for the actual houses (and their population)
20:55:21 <Nite> (drunken man something on the wiki)
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20:59:40 <Nite> what tile exactly is teh town center? the tile exactly below or one tile under the town name?
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21:11:28 <Eddi|zuHause> Nite: same as for stations, etc.
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21:18:56 <Nite> on stations the name is not always on same place, but thx ill figure it out ...
21:20:12 <TruePikachu> For stations, the name is in:
21:20:24 <Nite> i gues though it is one tile southwest since directly below the name houses are built and no road
21:20:31 <Eddi|zuHause> Nite: it's always the northernmost tile
21:20:45 <Eddi|zuHause> Nite: below the center of the name
21:21:03 <TruePikachu> * The location of the first station (in the case that this is in the polygon drawn by the station platforms
21:21:27 <Nite> true - the northern most tile first built
21:21:30 <TruePikachu> * The midpoint of the polygon (in the case the above does not apply).
21:22:07 <TruePikachu> This second rule is important for when bulldozing
21:22:23 <Nite> ok i got it so one tile sw (in my words)
21:23:55 <TruePikachu> Eddi|zuHause: What is your time zone? You are always on when I am
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21:45:57 <Rubidium> that's a good idea actually :)
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21:58:20 <Eddi|zuHause> ideas not always play out as you think they do...
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continue to next day ⏵
