IRC logs for #openttd on OFTC at 2010-07-30
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00:22:02 <izua> is there a cap on the output of coal mines?
00:22:17 <izua> or do they grow indefinitely
00:24:13 <Eddi|zuHause> i think there's a limit
00:24:35 <Eddi|zuHause> something around 2000 or so...
00:25:11 <Eddi|zuHause> no, something different
00:25:35 <DorpsGek> Eddi|zuHause: 2167.5
00:25:56 <Eddi|zuHause> something around these two...
00:26:25 <Rubidium> one month 2295, the next 2040
00:26:47 <Eddi|zuHause> that's why i said 8.5 ;)
00:26:48 <Rubidium> primarily because it's hard to divide a month in equal time slices
00:27:05 <DorpsGek> Rubidium: 105.580078125
00:27:10 <DorpsGek> Eddi|zuHause: 8.671875
00:27:39 <Eddi|zuHause> @calc 30*74/256*255
00:27:39 <DorpsGek> Eddi|zuHause: 2211.328125
00:27:54 <Eddi|zuHause> so on average around 2200...
00:28:16 <izua> so how do i make it grow?
00:28:30 <Eddi|zuHause> izua: keep the rating above 67%
00:28:33 <izua> service is outstanding at the mine i'm intersted in
00:28:47 <Eddi|zuHause> then it'll grow slowly
00:29:14 <izua> also, is it possible to add signals in tunnels?
00:29:41 <Rubidium> Eddi|zuHause: then there is a bigger chance that it grows than that it closes! :)
00:30:06 <Eddi|zuHause> Rubidium: "statistically", it will grow ;)
00:30:46 <izua> in that case i must make multiple tunnels
00:30:58 <izua> and some smart signaling, so the trains can choose the available tunnel
00:31:04 <Eddi|zuHause> yes, that's the standard solution ;)
00:31:42 <Eddi|zuHause> path signals are fairly smart themselves...
00:31:48 <Rubidium> Eddi|zuHause: nope... just tear down the mountain! That's the standard solution, or actually just starting on a completely flat map is
00:32:45 <Eddi|zuHause> hm... i guess you're right
00:33:07 <izua> neah, no mountain, flat map
00:33:15 <izua> i have a huge map with few cities (100)
00:33:27 <izua> so i can actually make some decent routing and loading loops around my terminals
00:33:53 <izua> but now this whole coal transporation deal is overusing my main lines, so i'm making some tunnels
00:33:59 <Eddi|zuHause> 100 cities is "few" nowadays... there used to be times where the maximum amount of cities was like 70 :)
00:35:53 <Rubidium> had to completely obliterate one town on that map
00:36:09 <izua> holy batman on a pez stick
00:40:52 <Eddi|zuHause> i like to have lots of space ;)
00:43:52 <izua> isn't it hard when starting out?
00:45:10 <Eddi|zuHause> you can easily start out with a tram network in a large city
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00:49:01 <KarlMay> anybody want join a really hard game?
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00:49:36 <KarlMay> i just startet and game is paused
00:51:52 <KarlMay> just join Cs Hard Game, really different
00:52:04 <KarlMay> just 10 industries on a 512x256 map
01:01:15 <Eddi|zuHause> "System Administrator Appreciation Day"...
01:01:59 <Eddi|zuHause> every year. last friday in july
01:18:08 <izua> year is 2003, but the best train i can purchase is from 1973
01:18:15 <izua> also i can't purchase anything electric
01:18:56 <izua> Eddi|zuHause: yeah, that's today :D
01:19:45 <Eddi|zuHause> izua: you must change the railtype to electric first
01:27:40 <izua> i can't. every railroad square says "can't convert, no suitable rr track"
01:28:14 <Eddi|zuHause> yes, because you havce not selected the electric railtype yet
01:28:22 <Eddi|zuHause> klick and hold the rail icon
01:52:48 <KarlMay> nobody want play a hard game start 1905?!
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02:42:32 <DarkNemesis> i know this is o/t but.... anyone heard about wikileaks?
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09:27:51 <Celestar_> does cargodist work reasonably with ECS?
09:29:45 <Yexo> hmm, nevermind, you're probably not the Celestar I was thinking off
09:32:12 <Noldo> upswarn.sh: UPS ruut-ups2@lame-local is unavailable
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09:33:27 <Yexo> in any case, no idea if cargodist and ecs work together, I suspect they do at least to some extent
09:36:24 <Celestar> well at least they do not crash :P
09:38:57 <Rubidium> Celestar: AFAIK they don't quite work together due to ECS industries frequently stopping (and starting) acceptance
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10:01:55 <keikoz> ECS stops/starts acceptance more frequently than pikka's stockpiling industries ?
10:02:11 <keikoz> I ask because cargodist works perfectly with those one
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10:08:13 * andythenorth goes on a sailing boat adventure
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10:39:48 <CIA-2> OpenTTD: alberth * r20241 /trunk/src/ (4 files): -Codechange: Move variable declarations to their first use.
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10:54:49 <Eddi|zuHause> that's not a sailboat
10:58:25 <keikoz> it's you on the picture ? :)
11:01:29 <Terkhen> we have a crazy polyglot in our wiki
11:09:10 <Terkhen> it seems that he's going to rewrite it completely... and in a lot of languages
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11:28:38 <izua> i've been looking over the dcc standards last night
11:28:51 <izua> is there also a standard for controlling signals and scenery?
11:29:12 <Eddi|zuHause> yes, it should be in there...
11:29:43 <Eddi|zuHause> equipment like signals and switches should be controlled from the same device as the engines
11:31:55 <izua> no, i mean a separate protocol
11:32:12 <izua> dcc has a limited number of addresses, using it to control signals and such sounds wasteful to me
11:38:21 <Eddi|zuHause> izua: didn't it have something like 10000 addresses or so?
11:39:15 <Eddi|zuHause> the advanced equipment i found talks about controlling 9999 engines and 2000 equipment
11:40:10 <Eddi|zuHause> the simpler boxes say they can controll 127 engines and 256 equipment
11:41:09 <Eddi|zuHause> of these 127 engines, 12 may be on the course, and 2-3 running at the same time (without boosters, then 2-3 per isolated section)
11:43:35 <izua> man i answered in a wrong channel
11:43:47 <izua> yeah, there's only one byte of address space in the waveform
11:44:07 <izua> although there are some provisions to double the address space, thus 65535 theoretical addresses
12:03:39 <Eddi|zuHause> maybe they cheat with having several circuits
12:14:39 <izua> i guess that could work too
12:15:19 <izua> but as i understood it, you're supposed to have a single station, and multiple remote controls if you want to move around, instead of having multiple stations
12:15:36 <CIA-2> OpenTTD: rubidium * r20242 /trunk/src/ (build_vehicle_gui.cpp rail_gui.cpp):
12:15:36 <CIA-2> OpenTTD: -Change: remove the need for "{WHITE}" control codes in some of the railtype NewGRF strings
12:15:36 <CIA-2> OpenTTD: -Fix: make it possible to properly assess the length of the rail toolbar caption
12:15:39 <izua> i guess the idea is to be able to control engines from anywhere
12:16:16 <Eddi|zuHause> yes. i meant the single central station has multiple outputs, to separate the address spaces
12:17:02 <Eddi|zuHause> so if you have 8 separate outputs for equipment, you can have 8*256=1024 equipment devices attached
12:17:24 <izua> yeah, but then you'd be able to control only 1/8th of it from a point
12:17:27 <izua> unless it's all centralised
12:17:30 <CIA-2> OpenTTD: rubidium * r20243 /trunk/src/lang/ (51 files in 2 dirs): -Update: the strings; they don't need the {WHITE} colour code anymore either
12:17:49 <Eddi|zuHause> hm... maybe i haven't thought of everything...
12:17:51 <izua> and you still increase the address space, because the main station now has to deal with the sub-station address and the device address
12:18:08 <izua> i know very little about this, in practice, i mean
12:18:14 <izua> but i'm willing to learn
12:18:23 <Eddi|zuHause> yeah, i guess you're right, for the remote<->central communication you need the extended address space
12:18:24 <izua> however, i do EE/industrial electronics
12:18:35 <izua> that's actually my main motivation about railway modelling
12:20:27 <TomyLobo> if i have an intercontinental airport with a bus station as far as possible away from it while still being part of the same station. what is the size of the catchment area? 12x12+10 radius?
12:23:08 <Eddi|zuHause> depends. for accepting, the rectangle of "10 radius" around the station counts, for picking up, the rectangle around the industry counts, and must contain a station tile.
12:23:21 <Alberth> that sounds like something that belongs in the wiki
12:23:35 <TomyLobo> that sounds like something broken :D
12:23:52 <TomyLobo> what rectangle around the industry btw?
12:24:05 <Eddi|zuHause> TomyLobo: not entirely sure...
12:24:31 <izua> when you place a station, you'll see when you are in it from the 'supplies' field
12:24:33 <TomyLobo> i.e. maximum station radius
12:24:35 <Eddi|zuHause> rectangle with "some radius"... not sure if it's 4, or max_catchment, or whatever...
12:24:40 <izua> guess you can deduce its size out of that
12:25:07 <TomyLobo> izua that info isnt very helpful with combines stations
12:25:18 <TomyLobo> ...as we just concluded
12:25:26 <Eddi|zuHause> TomyLobo: maybe you should check the source. start from MoveGoodsToStation, and deduce from there...
12:25:43 <izua> oh wait, TomyLobo is a dev?
12:25:52 <Eddi|zuHause> then write your findings on the wiki ;)
12:25:52 <izua> sorry then. i've been playing openttd for a few days
12:26:10 <Eddi|zuHause> izua: not only devs can check the source ;)
12:26:32 <izua> myeah, but it takes time to grow familiar with it
12:27:10 <CIA-2> OpenTTD: rubidium * r20244 /trunk/src/ (group_gui.cpp lang/english.txt vehicle_gui.cpp): -Fix: the caption of the "Available vehicle" lists was black, whereas for building those vehicles, which uses the exact same window, it was white.
12:27:45 <Eddi|zuHause> izua: that's why i mentioned the entry point to start searching
12:27:55 <CIA-2> OpenTTD: rubidium * r20245 /trunk/src/lang/ (49 files in 2 dirs): -Update: the other languages in accordance with r20244
12:30:47 <Eddi|zuHause> looks like it uses StationFinder
12:31:25 <Eddi|zuHause> industry_cmd.cpp:502:StationFinder stations(i->location);
12:34:43 <Eddi|zuHause> station_cmd.cpp:3225:void FindStationsAroundTiles(const TileArea &location, StationList *stations) <-- this looks like the place
12:35:34 <Eddi|zuHause> so, it seems to search all station tiles within MAX_CATCHMENT, then check if that station's catchment area includes the industry
12:36:27 <Eddi|zuHause> TomyLobo: understood?
12:36:42 <TomyLobo> same as accept then?
12:37:16 <TomyLobo> you know what would be more efficient
12:37:26 <TomyLobo> if the stations just registered with the industries
12:38:51 <Eddi|zuHause> TomyLobo: no, it's not exactly the same
12:39:15 <TomyLobo> how would it be different?
12:39:24 <Eddi|zuHause> TomyLobo: imagine 2 bus stations, so catchment radius 3, in 12 tiles distance
12:39:43 <Eddi|zuHause> you have a "blind spot" between these two for delivering, but not for accepting
12:39:56 <TomyLobo> but i dont have that :D
12:41:05 <TomyLobo> but registering would still be better
12:41:34 <Eddi|zuHause> TomyLobo: the results of StationFinder are cached
12:42:03 <Eddi|zuHause> although i'm not entirely sure how and where...
12:46:45 <TomyLobo> hmm bug or intended behaviour:
12:47:26 <TomyLobo> i set a train to ignore a signal before a train station. in the station there was a train that didnt fill the entire platform
12:47:37 <TomyLobo> so far so good, everything worked nicely
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12:48:12 <TomyLobo> but then the front train left and some other train decided to reserve a path under the back train
12:49:07 <Rubidium> trains always reserve and unreserve the whole platform
12:49:22 <TomyLobo> even if there already is a train in there?
12:50:04 <Rubidium> because checking for EACH unreservation whether another train might have reserved it is extremely resource expensive, i.e. it slows down the game
12:50:20 <Rubidium> and crashes after ignoring signals are to be expected
12:50:54 <TomyLobo> cant a train just reserve track it stands on?
12:51:09 <TomyLobo> yes, crashes into stuff in front
12:51:18 <TomyLobo> but not being hit from behind from the same line
12:51:36 <Rubidium> it only reserves tiles when passing a path signal or entering a tile
12:51:52 <TomyLobo> or when turning around
12:52:12 <ccfreak2k> It doesn't reserve past non-pbs signals other than "when entering a tile."
12:52:42 <TomyLobo> it reserves when passing the signal
12:52:47 <TomyLobo> but not when entering a tile
12:52:47 <Rubidium> except when you're entering a "pbs" block, in which case the non-path signal behaves somewhat like a path signal
12:52:51 <TomyLobo> which is the problem here
12:53:15 <Rubidium> TomyLobo: no, that is not the problem
12:53:33 <TomyLobo> if it'd reserve the tile when entering, it wouldnt crash
12:53:35 <Rubidium> the problem is the OTHER train removing the reservation it made when leaving the platform
12:53:50 <TomyLobo> trains dont keep reservation behind them
12:54:02 <TomyLobo> so there was none in the first place
12:54:17 <Rubidium> TomyLobo: but they REMOVE the reservation in front of them when turning around
12:54:35 <TomyLobo> i turned off auto turning
12:54:52 <Rubidium> so both trains entered the platform from the same side
12:55:36 <TomyLobo> one was on "far end" the other on "near end"
12:56:06 <Rubidium> sorry... but a train does NOT unreserve the platform tiles when leaving one tile, only when leaving the station (I just experimentally confirmed that)
12:56:21 <ccfreak2k> Oh it seems a train will reserve track to the next signal after a PBS regardless of type AND up to the next signal if it's a PBS.
12:56:46 <Rubidium> as a result the FIRST train had the whole platform reserved and thus rightfully unreserved the bits IT did reseve
12:57:00 <Eddi|zuHause> TomyLobo: your situation is like this:
12:57:12 <Eddi|zuHause> Train A enters the platform and reserves THE WHOLE platform
12:57:14 <Rubidium> that you told the SECOND train to ignore reservations doesn't mean that it does actually get a reservation!
12:57:18 <TomyLobo> Rubidium the dark stuff in front of a train is reservation, right?
12:57:30 <Eddi|zuHause> Train B enters the platform, also reserves the whole platform, which was already reserved
12:57:38 <TomyLobo> it works like i said on free track
12:57:47 <TomyLobo> it's kinda hard to spot on platforms
12:57:50 <Eddi|zuHause> Train A leaves the platform, UNRESERVES the platform, because it doesn't use it anymore
12:57:50 <Rubidium> TomyLobo: but we are NOT talking about FREE track!
12:57:58 <Rubidium> we are talking about PLATFORMS
12:58:00 <Eddi|zuHause> Train B is still in the platform, which is now unreserved
12:58:22 <Eddi|zuHause> Train C sees the unreserved platform, and reserves it
12:58:33 <TomyLobo> why is there a special case for platforms?
12:58:42 <TomyLobo> i mean such an incomplete special case
12:58:52 <ccfreak2k> Because it makes no sense for two trains to be in the same platform?
12:59:00 <Eddi|zuHause> TomyLobo: same thing can happen with very short trains on one free tile
12:59:27 <ccfreak2k> There's no way to place a signal in the middle of a platform.
12:59:45 <TomyLobo> if they both leave the same way they came and are short enough
12:59:51 <Eddi|zuHause> TomyLobo: platforms are very special pathfinder cases, they can only be considered as a whole
13:00:11 <TomyLobo> or alternatively, they both leave the same way and load the same stuff
13:00:13 <Eddi|zuHause> TomyLobo: trains must know the length of the platform before entering, etc.
13:00:32 <TomyLobo> Eddi|zuHause odd, they never do that for me
13:00:42 <TomyLobo> long trains still end up in short platforms and vice versa
13:00:57 <TomyLobo> they should take the shortest available platform that fits them
13:01:03 <Eddi|zuHause> TomyLobo: if they have the choice between a long platform and a short platform, they will prefer the long platform
13:01:10 <Rubidium> TomyLobo: then there's something wrong with your pathfinder penalties
13:01:11 <TomyLobo> and stay at the signal if there is none
13:01:17 <TomyLobo> at last that should be configurable
13:01:17 <Eddi|zuHause> TomyLobo: there are pathfinder penalties for that
13:01:32 <TomyLobo> Eddi|zuHause or maybe my platforms are full
13:02:15 <Eddi|zuHause> TomyLobo: then increase yapf.rail_shorter_platform_penalty (default: 4000, i.e. 40 tiles detour)
13:02:38 <TomyLobo> that's what i asked the other day :)
13:03:20 <Alberth> in a good mood today?
13:03:22 <Eddi|zuHause> TomyLobo: this must be larger than the reserved platform penalty, which is per-tile
13:04:03 <Eddi|zuHause> or the lastred-penalty, in case you're using block signals at the station
13:04:17 <TomyLobo> reserved platform penalty? eh?
13:04:23 <Belugas> Alberth : Yeah! it's my last day of work before vacations!
13:04:28 <Belugas> so you bet i'm joyfull
13:04:46 <Eddi|zuHause> TomyLobo: yapf.rail_pbs_station_penalty
13:04:46 <TomyLobo> shouldnt it stay out of reserved platforms no matter what?
13:05:14 <Eddi|zuHause> TomyLobo: this is for deciding whether to take a detour, or wait until the track is free
13:05:45 <Eddi|zuHause> in your case, you want to wait, not take a detour (meaning take the short platform)
13:05:47 <Alberth> Belugas: so only 8 hours before a long time no work!
13:06:36 <TomyLobo> well i usually dont want them to pass through stations at al
13:06:46 <TomyLobo> i always build tracks around them
13:06:55 <Eddi|zuHause> yapf.rail_pbs_station_penalty penalises waiting for free platform, while yapf.rail_shorter_platform_penalty penalises taking the detour
13:07:06 <Eddi|zuHause> you want the penalty for the detour to be higher than the one for waiting
13:07:39 <Eddi|zuHause> TomyLobo: going around a station is a different problem, there are penalties for that as well
13:08:23 <Belugas> yes Alberth. well... no work... let say no work@work ;)
13:08:48 <Eddi|zuHause> TomyLobo: yapf.rail_station_penalty is for stations that are not the current order
13:09:39 <Eddi|zuHause> Belugas: ah, so that's why you searched for tracks, so you have something to do during vacation ;)
13:10:23 <Eddi|zuHause> TomyLobo: well, if you feel a train is misbehaving, start tweaking these penalties
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13:15:20 <Belugas> Eddi|zuHause, it's for the long term in fact. both my son and i would like a big network
13:15:40 <Belugas> we decided that a few weeks ago and since then, i'm "testing" the market
13:16:15 <Belugas> so when we'll finish the basement of the house, we'll have plenty of space to build it.
13:16:40 <Belugas> and during my vacations, i'll be working on the said basement
13:16:49 <Belugas> not all the time, be sure of that
13:18:45 <Eddi|zuHause> rule #1: in "basements", there is never "space" for anything... it immediately gets full with "we need to put this junk elsewhere" stuff
13:35:33 <Belugas> but Big Emperor decided that Little Prince must have a place to play, that is not the living room
13:36:29 <Belugas> so... when God decides, God will not stuff junk downstairs :)
13:36:47 <Belugas> my junk is never in the way
13:37:26 <Belugas> hey... i only have my diving gear and my music gear. a few construction tools, but that's it
13:37:46 <TomyLobo> you call it diving gear?
13:38:57 <Belugas> scuba gear: 2 bottles of air, 3 dive suits, fins, weight belts, scuba reg, buyonce vest
13:39:16 <TomyLobo> you still didnt get the joke :)
13:39:41 * Belugas is only half way through his 2 mug of coffee
13:40:00 <TomyLobo> it's a pretty dumb joke to be honest :)
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14:07:49 <Moses> hey anybody want to play a hard game starting 1910?
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14:10:13 <izua> i would, but i suck so bad in single player :p
14:10:45 <Moses> doesnt matter is a really hard game you can beginn some times new xD
14:11:00 <Moses> just join "Cs Hard Game" 1910
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14:11:22 <izua> tbh, i never even played MP before
14:12:43 <izua> but i guess i can try :D
14:15:04 <izua> can't join.. the button is grayed out for some reason
14:15:37 <Rubidium> more towards the top it'll say why it can't join
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14:16:03 <TomyLobo> Moses what is there to do in 1910?
14:16:09 <TomyLobo> except repaying the loan and waiting
14:16:30 <Moses> Building some horses and trams maybe?
14:21:37 <Moses> no rules, just play fair.
14:22:10 <TomyLobo> i dont wnna leave an orphan company that's why ^^
14:24:43 <Moses> we will play this game a little bit xD
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14:30:35 <Belugas> hooo... nice game! touch and go people!!
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14:38:23 <Eddi|zuHause> Rubidium: i'm not sure if that was a good idea
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14:38:35 <Rubidium> Eddi|zuHause: no, but when to stop the invite only?
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14:39:13 <Eddi|zuHause> Rubidium: more than 5 minutes ;)
14:39:45 <Rubidium> keikoz: that won't let them speak, but they aren't speaking... they're just joining (and getting kicked)
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14:40:14 <Eddi|zuHause> Rubidium: no, it also prevents joining
14:40:21 <keikoz> is there not a flag to disallow not registered users to join ?
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14:40:38 <keikoz> I don't remember, didn't managed IRC chans since a lot
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14:42:54 <Eddi|zuHause> just remember to remove that mode before 6:56 tomorrow morning ;)
14:43:46 <keikoz> What is the command to interrogate the server about all possible modes ? I don't remember it
14:46:45 <Eddi|zuHause> keikoz: dunno if there's a command, but it's in the welcome message of the server
14:47:04 <Eddi|zuHause> [30.07.2010 06:56] [Willkommen] Server weber.oftc.net (Version hybrid-7.2.2+oftc1.6.8), Benutzermodi: CDGPRSabcdfgiklnorsuwxyz, Kanalmodi: biklmnopstveI
14:47:48 <Eddi|zuHause> although that doesn't mention channel mode R
14:47:58 <Eddi|zuHause> so i'm not sure...
14:48:37 <^Spike^> oh damn... i should know.. but i forgot
14:48:38 <keikoz> there is one command, really useful, which indicates all possibles chmdes, usermodes and so on, with descriptions. But it was maybee only on unrealircd
14:49:02 <^Spike^> but seems not much help this time :)
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14:49:48 <Eddi|zuHause> but that seems not very complete
14:49:52 <^Spike^> oh... i see why you guys asked.. botnet.. :)
14:50:08 <^Spike^> i've ben waiting for that on my other server for a few days now after i got threats..
14:50:11 <^Spike^> and you guys got it sooner
14:50:27 <Rubidium> we haven't gotten any threats though
14:50:43 <Rubidium> only threads, but those are on the forum and once OpenTTD runs
14:51:02 <^Spike^> but some guy threatend my server cause i didn't want to help solve his problems on his :)
14:51:25 <^Spike^> i've been watching the proxy monitor we have.. but it has nothing to do.. :)
14:51:33 <^Spike^> i feel left out now :D
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14:53:00 <^Spike^> i doubt i will see these IPs on the irc-security mailing... :)
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14:57:44 <Rubidium> why would you want to help spammers OFTC?
14:58:17 <SpComb> but I'm not a spammer!
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14:58:49 <Rubidium> X has quit [autokilled: Spammer - Contact support@oftc.net for help. (2010-07-30 14:57:18)]
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14:59:26 <^Spike^> hmmm... guess default msg and for ppl that are mistakenly seen as spammer
15:00:02 <^Spike^> sometimes IPs end up on a blacklist by someone else... and when you get that IP via DHCP you're screwed
15:02:11 <Eddi|zuHause> that's why you can clean 99% of the IPs from a blacklist after 3 days
15:02:31 <Eddi|zuHause> many after 1 day
15:02:43 <^Spike^> true... but still... some prefer the: Ask for removal method :)
15:02:54 <^Spike^> better said: Alot of blacklists :D
15:03:39 <^Spike^> there are very few blacklists out there.. that daily check the IPs for what they were added
15:03:47 <^Spike^> better said... in my time i've only seen one
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15:22:06 <fjb> That's why I don't use blacklists on my mail server.
15:25:42 <Rubidium> greylisting is actually already quite effective
15:27:46 <fjb> Yes, so effective that mail from Belugas didn't reach me...
15:28:32 <Rubidium> fjb: that might be SPF
15:29:16 <fjb> His server tried to deliver once, got greylistet and never made e second try.
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15:35:41 <Forked> whats with the bot invasion
15:37:39 <Wolf01> groan... RMA: me->shop->wholesaler->buffalo, the wholesaler does not want the broken product, the shop asked me to send it to the wholesaler, the buffalo tech support told me I must only bring the product to the shop with the RMA they sent me because neither me or the shop can send the product to buffalo, the shop is exploding...
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15:39:27 <Rubidium> Wolf01: who sold you the product? Then that entity should handle the warranty stuff
15:39:55 <Rubidium> Wolf01: do you have a replacement?
15:40:36 <Rubidium> then they should give you one. It's not your problem that they have problems with getting warranty claims up the chain
15:40:44 <Rubidium> or at least, that's how it's done here
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15:46:38 <Wolf01> the problem is that initially the shop took my RMA, but when the wholesaler didn't want the product they asked me to contact the wholesaler and pay the spedition dues... it's their wholesaler, not mine, and if the wholesaler didn't want the product back from them, why they would want it from me?
15:47:41 <Wolf01> and the other problem, the shop is where I work(ed)
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16:13:00 <[hta]specx> is there a shortcut key to automatically order a train "transfer and leave empty"? I know you can control + order, so that a train full loads...
16:14:42 <frosch123> in nightly you can define custom hotkeys for "transfer" and "no load"
16:15:08 <frosch123> not sure what happens if you assign the same hotkey to both
16:15:13 <[hta]specx> "nightly"? only when sun is down?
16:15:29 <frosch123> go to openttd.org and search for "nightly"
16:16:04 <[hta]specx> expensie word for beta ;)
16:17:54 <fjb> OpenTTD "alpha" is more stable than most "relaese".
16:25:09 <[hta]specx> Is there any implementation attempt been in the past (or planned in future) to create a AI squirrel like system for scripting games?
16:28:56 <[hta]specx> is it usable in its current form, or is the project stopped?
16:43:01 <Belugas> why nightly? 'cause it's compiled every night. Much more descriptive than alpha.
16:43:22 <Belugas> plus, alpha tends to be a big no no for users with cold feet
16:43:53 <Belugas> nightly? cool... all bug fixes one can dream of having...
16:46:54 <TomyLobo> and all the bugs one can dream of having
16:50:05 <Rubidium> TomyLobo: no, we're not trying to be like DVL
16:50:51 <Rubidium> "Damn Vulnerable Linux"
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17:29:28 <Moses> join Cs Hard Game we need some competion! Horses, Trams and Trains 1922!
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17:32:25 <Rubidium> would please stop advertising your game every few hours?
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17:33:54 <andythenorth> he came, he went
17:34:00 <andythenorth> I didn't have to troll myself
17:34:15 * andythenorth runs software update
17:34:28 <andythenorth> some time ago I stopped keeping this mac up to date
17:34:36 <andythenorth> wonder if it will blow up when I update it
17:34:49 <andythenorth> if I disappear for a while....blame uncle Steve
17:35:54 <Rubidium> andythenorth: isn't Steve's prefered way of software updates buying a new device?
17:36:23 <TomyLobo> isnt that every mac user's?
17:43:50 * andythenorth clicks the 'restart' button
17:43:56 * andythenorth may disappear into oblivion
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17:46:01 <CIA-2> OpenTTD: translators * r20246 /trunk/src/lang/ (9 files in 2 dirs): (log message trimmed)
17:46:01 <CIA-2> OpenTTD: -Update from WebTranslator v3.0:
17:46:01 <CIA-2> OpenTTD: basque - 20 changes by Thadah
17:46:01 <CIA-2> OpenTTD: belarusian - 276 changes by KorneySan
17:46:01 <CIA-2> OpenTTD: chuvash - 2 changes by mefisteron
17:46:02 <CIA-2> OpenTTD: finnish - 1 changes by jpx_
17:46:02 <CIA-2> OpenTTD: french - 1 changes by ElNounch
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17:52:02 <keikoz> Town growth can be accelerated by loading and unloading at least one item of cargo at five stations within town influence within a two month period. It does not matter which cargos are loaded/unloaded.
17:52:16 <keikoz> In the Temperate climate, a simple bus service can drastically increase the population of a town. It is sensible to connect not-too-distant small towns together with bus services to bulk-up their population before a train station or airport becomes viable.
17:52:39 <keikoz> So, witch of them should I believe ?
17:53:03 <keikoz> (I suppose the first, but I'd like be sure)
17:57:28 <Rubidium> one active station already increases the town growth, though the more active stations (up to 5) the faster it'll go
17:58:21 <keikoz> ok, so fundamentally, both assertion are true, in a different extent
18:01:08 <keikoz> From what I could read on the forum, looks like the first statement is misunderstood
18:01:41 <keikoz> (I could change it, but my english is clearly to poor for that)
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18:10:06 <andythenorth> my entire life didn't disappear into some borked firmware update or something :P
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18:17:07 <andythenorth> how would simon foster draw sails for ships? :P
18:18:03 <Rubidium> with some 200 colours to chose from and very few pixels to colour
18:20:08 <andythenorth> I wondered who would say that first...
18:20:14 <andythenorth> tells me nothing about style though :P
18:20:24 * andythenorth looks for sail-shaped things
18:20:41 <andythenorth> why has no-one done a hot air ballon grf yet?
18:21:31 <Hirundo> because it's full of hot air?
18:22:21 <Rubidium> andythenorth: because *you* haven't done or found it yet
18:22:37 <andythenorth> because it carries about 3 passengers?
18:23:02 <Alberth> it should be used for HQ transport only
18:25:23 <Belugas> any one knows how to translate "bank referral" in french?
18:25:33 <Belugas> i know... i ask a lot
18:26:59 * Rubidium wonders whether that's coming from some online translator tool
18:27:33 <Belugas> could be, i can't tell. I'm still wondering :)
18:28:07 <keikoz> the sens of "referral" is not perfectly clear to me :)
18:28:56 <Belugas> related to reference, in fact... the bank ask the clerk to call up for voice authorization on special cases
18:29:35 <Rubidium> Belugas: can't you just call a local bank (assuming they speak English)?
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18:34:15 <Belugas> i try to translate an error message, Rubidium :)
18:35:12 <Alberth> write an openttd patch that introduces the message into the game, wait a few days, he presto, dozens of translations :D
18:35:22 <Rubidium> Belugas: but... don't you have a phone? I'd say a bank employee is more reliable w.r.t. nomenclature than some random person here
18:35:31 <Rubidium> TrueBrain: so I shouldn't appreciate you?!?
18:35:49 <TrueBrain> depends for what :p
18:36:45 <TrueBrain> yeah, tnx in that case :p
18:37:06 * andythenorth tries to leave feedback with Lego.
18:37:38 <Rubidium> guess you missed the "aprreciation" of OFTC sysadmins around 16:30-16:40
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18:46:24 <Eddi|zuHause> you mean the one that is still going on? :p
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19:05:16 <Belugas> Rubidium, you know... a prompt on a screen... 'Hey CLERK,CALL THE DAMNED BANK" "reason: bank referral"
19:05:25 <Belugas> than" Good Time wasted to you too"
19:05:50 * Belugas will try to leave feedback with guitar
19:18:00 <Wolf01> I think I was born with a nevus on my back which resembles "f**k me hardly"
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19:54:08 <Eddi|zuHause> "hardly" doesn't mean what you think it does ;)
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21:20:46 <Ammler> TomyLobo: same time as a train with one waggon
21:21:06 <Ammler> (if you have a station which fits the train)
21:21:44 <Ammler> load speed is per waggon
21:22:10 <TomyLobo> but usually you dont have stations of length 100
21:22:28 <TomyLobo> i dont even know if it's possible to set the max station size that high
21:22:59 <Ammler> 100 tiles or 100 wagons?
21:23:43 <Rubidium> TomyLobo: there is (definitely) no such thing as longer wagons
21:23:56 <TomyLobo> but you can add train heads
21:23:57 <Rubidium> at least at the level of OpenTTD's internals
21:25:14 <Ammler> but then if you have a longer train then the station, the dealay is as along when the train overlapps 100 waggons or 1 waggon, afaik
21:25:49 <Rubidium> Ammler: the larger the overlap the larger the delay
21:31:12 <Ammler> Rubidium: what is the use of findversion only searches in src?
21:32:06 <Rubidium> changing documentation/project files don't change OpenTTD's behaviour and as such the versions are still network compatible with eachother
21:35:08 <Ammler> your patch might work but is around 10 times slower :-)
21:36:08 <Rubidium> Ammler: well... using -I would be the best way, but... some mercurial dev thought there were enough reasons to disallow the use of that in combination with f
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22:07:12 <Ammler> Rubidium: hg log -k '(svn ' -l2 -r 'sort(0::., -rev)' src
22:09:19 <Rubidium> that's not significantly faster than my code
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22:58:09 <CIA-2> OpenTTD: rubidium * r20247 /trunk/src/saveload/ (oldloader.cpp oldloader.h oldloader_sl.cpp): -Fix: when it is known the loading an old savegame is going to fail, bail out immediately (using an exception) instead of going on until e.g. the expected number of byte is read
22:59:27 <TruePikachu> Wait, was that a commit?
23:05:13 <TruePikachu> Lol @ Bug 3901's title
23:10:19 <nicfer> anyone liked the 'all climates world' patch?
23:20:07 <TruePikachu> I haven't used it
23:20:26 * TruePikachu hates compiling things from source
23:27:04 <TruePikachu> My friend from here thinks that Goods improve the growth rate of a city. Is he right? The Wiki says no, but he is a vetran to at least TTD
23:38:57 <Hirundo> goods does not improve the growth rate any more or less than e.g. delivering iron ore to a nearby steel mill, IIRC
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continue to next day ⏵
