IRC logs for #openttd on OFTC at 2010-04-01
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00:07:08 <chaos95> wait, it's here? it's out? :D
00:07:52 <Eddi|zuHause> no, it's an april's fools joke
00:17:35 <aber> that reminds me of deleting the openttd binaries i published...
00:42:03 <aber> about 100 downloads, not to bad... one thanks and one crash...
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05:47:44 <Lapsus> Is anyone else haveing trouble getting AP+ to work properly?
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06:51:12 <planetmaker> Lapsus: trouble yes, but it works with nightlies
06:51:29 <planetmaker> good morning all, also :-)
06:51:42 <planetmaker> and congratz for the major release, folks! :-)
06:52:30 <planetmaker> Lapsus: and as it works with nightlies it *should* also work with 1.0
06:52:43 <planetmaker> as it also worked with trunk as of the time of the split of the 1.0 branch
06:52:51 <Lapsus> I can't seem to get the IRC part of ap+ working at all, but beyond that, everything's working. It just means I'll have to watch out for greifers a bit more :P
06:52:55 <planetmaker> and there haven't really been mods since to ap+
06:53:29 <planetmaker> ah... in that respect "not working" is an insufficient error description :-P
06:54:15 <Lapsus> It connects to IRC, but doesn't autojoin, relay messages, or respond to anything other than a channel invitation.
06:54:32 <Lapsus> Not a huge concern at the moment anyways
06:55:49 <Lapsus> I was having it attempt to connect to #fpttd on the gamesurge network.
06:56:07 <Lapsus> I've turned off the irc module, but I can get it back up if you want to poke at it
07:00:16 <planetmaker> uh... other network. means I need to figure out how to connect... :-P
07:00:30 <Lapsus> I can always point it at this one
07:01:03 <Lapsus> I don't know the policies on bots here, but I'm sure they won't g-line me for a test
07:01:17 <planetmaker> but not this channel ;-)
07:01:26 <Lapsus> of course, that'd be bad :x
07:01:46 <planetmaker> our servers run on this network, too, soo...
07:04:14 <Lapsus> Guess I need to ask around on gamesurge then :P
07:04:48 <Lapsus> Then again, joining IRC for a game might be beyond facepunch's abilities
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07:08:31 <Lapsus> also woo, 5th 1.0.0 server :p
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07:15:18 <planetmaker> My guess is that either Rubidiums irony detector has been broken or that he fell for Expresso's April fool's joke in the OpenTTD 2.0.0 thread :-D
07:15:58 <kannerke> congrats with the 1.0.0 release, where/when is the party? :D
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07:19:09 <blathijs> planetmaker: I think both his irony detector and cynism generator work just fine :-)
07:22:16 <planetmaker> blathijs: then mine must be broken :-P
07:24:28 <Rubidium> blathijs: just imagine how much time you'd save if you don't have to maintain all those OpenTTD (related) packages in Debian
07:25:07 <ddfreyne> oh right, no more openttd mac port :<
07:25:42 <Rubidium> or how much time planetmaker would save by not having a reason to work on those openttdcoop projects
07:26:26 <planetmaker> I wouldn't know what to do ;-)
07:27:12 * planetmaker wonders how many of the servers run on windoze, how many on other OS
07:30:45 <Mchl> Congratulations everyone!
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07:59:32 <blathijs> Lapsus: Perhaps use a screenshot with OpenGFX instead?
07:59:53 <blathijs> Lapsus: Ande perhaps one of the final 1.0, that doesn't say "1.0 beta2" ;-)
07:59:56 <Lapsus> blathijs: ah, good call
08:00:37 <Lapsus> I wrote it all out while playing beta2, so blah.
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08:16:54 <planetmaker> moin andythenorth
08:17:58 <Lapsus> What's the cutoff point for loading nightlies into 1.0.0? I'm trying to open an openttdcoop game to take some screenshots with. :P
08:18:17 <planetmaker> 4 weeks ago or so
08:19:29 <planetmaker> I am again and again surprised how much the base sets are a matter of getting used to
08:20:13 <planetmaker> they look so distinctly different, but switching takes quite some time in order to "know around" the way on first looks
08:25:46 <planetmaker> hm... owen rudge is stepping back from zernebok... :S
08:25:51 <planetmaker> doesn't sound like good news :-(
08:26:32 <planetmaker> but I guess it's just a good April's fools joke ;-)
08:32:42 <Mchl> is Bjarni hanging around here from time to time?
08:34:14 <Mchl> so the answer is 'kind of' :)
08:39:34 <planetmaker> let's say: his absence is the absence of a mac ports developer - which is sought for officially
08:40:24 <TrueBrain> what? Bjarni could port to the mac? That is new ...
08:45:35 <OwenS> Hmm... the OtherOS removing PS3 firmware update is out today
08:56:18 <ragzid> hi all, just a question, script "openttd-wrapper" was used just in RC versions?
08:58:27 <planetmaker> never heart of that script...
08:58:38 <planetmaker> (doesn't mean anything, though)
08:59:33 <ragzid> i discovered it yesterday, after installing rc3 version from debian unstable repository
09:00:31 <planetmaker> you don't mean anything like autopilot or ap+?
09:00:43 <planetmaker> or what's the purpose? Running a server with console output?
09:00:56 <ragzid> the reason I asked is because in this script is used "mktemp" with bad argument, and created menu entry starts this openttd-wrapper
09:01:17 <planetmaker> must be something else then :-) No idea
09:01:20 <ragzid> no, it's just script creating error output to /tmp directory
09:02:08 <ragzid> i have no idea whether it's debian issue, or if it happens also in official releases
09:02:43 <planetmaker> I've even no idea what the purpose of that script might be ;-)
09:02:46 <ragzid> never mind, freshly downloaded 1.0.0 final runs well :)
09:03:01 <ragzid> a menu entry starts directly "openttd"
09:07:22 <Rubidium> ragzid: the openttd-wrapper is something only in the 'official Debian' Debian package, so if it's broken, file a bug report to the Debian package (or tell blathijs to file a bug report)
09:08:24 <blathijs> ragzid: The openttd-wrapper will be in the 1.0 release in Debian
09:08:44 <blathijs> ragzid: Could you explain your problem in a bit more detail? I've tested the script, it worked for me
09:09:23 <Rubidium> now you'll see, ragzid will 'ping timeout'-disconnect in 3 minutes or so
09:11:10 <ragzid> blathijs: TMPFILE=`mktemp --tmpdir openttd.errout.XXXXXXXXX`, maybe the reason is my mix of stable/unstable packages, but mktemp doesn't know the agr "--tmpdir", so the script only prints xmessage with "Could not create tmpdir"
09:11:40 <Rubidium> sounds like 'too old mktemp'
09:12:18 <lennard> oh wait, I'm thinking logtail
09:12:19 <ragzid> installed version is from unstable - 8.4-2
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09:14:03 <Rubidium> lennard: yeah, wrong mktemp sounds plausible
09:14:13 <Rubidium> in stable there's a mktemp package, in unstable it's part of coreutils
09:14:22 <ragzid> hmm, nowadays I solve dependency hell with kde3 in unstable, maybe mktemp got upgraded
09:14:46 <Rubidium> there is no mktemp package in testing/unstable anymore
09:16:22 <OwenS> people still use kde3? :o
09:16:58 <Rubidium> OwenS: yes, you don't want to know the whining of some co-devs about kde4
09:17:51 <OwenS> And yet KDE3's codebase is now frozen, and in fact has been for a year...
09:18:18 <ragzid> that's the reason why I use it
09:18:46 <ragzid> but, I didn't want to start flame :)
09:18:46 <OwenS> That bugs dont get fixed? That security issues remain?
09:19:54 <OwenS> And, heck, the last Qt 3 release was in 2005...
09:20:22 <OwenS> (For the curious, Qt 2.3 is actually newer ;-)
09:20:31 <Rubidium> OwenS: I think people prefer a stable slightly less secure system over an unstable slightly more secure system
09:20:57 <OwenS> I can't say I find KDE4 unstable. Or ever have, even when I was running the betas...
09:22:12 <ragzid> and one of the main reasons why I'm stuck with kde3 is amarok 1.40, maybe if clementine project became more usable i will start thinking about upgrade
09:22:25 <OwenS> Whats wrong with Amarok 2?
09:22:28 <Rubidium> nevertheless, I don't really care about KDE; use some of the apps (which are annoyingly crash prone)
09:22:43 <OwenS> Rubidium: "annoyingly crash prone"? Hmm?
09:23:05 <Rubidium> OwenS: kile crashed three times yesterday
09:23:20 <OwenS> OK, I admit I do little (well, no) LaTeX editing
09:23:47 <ragzid> OwenS: I've never get used to amarok 2, to control, collection,...
09:24:19 <OwenS> It took a bit of time, but I did (Once it materialized from its crashy phase)
09:24:33 * Rubidium still happily uses xmms; suits my needs quite well
09:25:05 <OwenS> I should probably report to the devs a bug with collections and unreliable CIFS mounds
09:25:41 <Rubidium> OwenS: nah, though feel free to report issues with unreliable CIFS mounts
09:26:37 <heffer> what does a "OpenTTD Wrapper" doß
09:26:49 <OwenS> Or perhaps I should just figure out how to get NFS between Linux and Solaris working...
09:27:10 <OwenS> I fear it would involve centralizing auth using LDAP, which would be a pain
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09:27:24 <ragzid> heffer: it starts openttd with directing error output to temp.dir
09:28:00 <OwenS> While I remember: Editing down Solaris default 30 second Grub timeout (30 seconds?!)
09:30:01 <ragzid> blathijs: what about delete "--tmpdir"? mktemp should create the output in /tmp directory, if no other directory is specified
09:30:53 <ragzid> "If DIR is not specified, use $TMPDIR if set, else /tmp"
09:31:10 <planetmaker> blathijs, btw, for the joy of the package maintainers I released a bug fix version of OpenGFX so that you can just run 'make check' in order to test for a successful built of the grf files
09:31:37 <planetmaker> thus you don't have to worry about v0.2.2's broken check anymore
09:39:04 <orudge> planetmaker: it was news to me :p
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09:43:46 <blathijs> ragzid: It seems there are two versions, an old version from the mktemp package, which is replaced by a new version in the coreutils package
09:44:03 <blathijs> ragzid: Thanks for reporting, I'll change it so it works with both versions :-)
09:44:23 <blathijs> planetmaker: Ah, nice. Rubidium also said something along those lines :-)
09:44:39 <ragzid> blathijs: no problem, hope it helps :)
09:44:50 <muszek> hi... how do I change between original/new gfx/sfx? I'm running Ubuntu, have copied the original files a while back and want to see how the new ones look like.
09:45:12 <muszek> congrats on the 1.0, btw
09:46:04 <blathijs> muszek: There's a few dropdowns in the game options menu
09:46:35 <muszek> blathijs: thanks, i missed it
09:47:33 <muszek> hmmm... i can only choose 'original windows' for gfx and 'original windows'/'no sound' for sfx
09:48:28 <ragzid> muszek: have you downloaded it and copied to /data folder?
09:48:52 <muszek> just saw I can download the new sets...
09:51:44 <Ammler> ragzid: no need to copy the sets around...
09:55:44 <ragzid> Ammler: i'm not sure, i just did fresh install from official 1.0.0 debian squeeze package, but openg(s)fx are not included
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09:57:45 <Ammler> they should install to right place, I meant.
10:08:05 <ragzid> muszek: and have you tried download the new sets from bananas?
10:08:06 <blathijs> ragzid: You should install them separately. The easiest way is probably through the in-game download service for now
10:14:06 <muszek> ragzid: i just used the 'check online content' dialog from within openttd
10:28:36 <ragzid> it's weird, 10 minutes ago i checked the bananas, and in the list were only NewGRF, now there are base sets, height maps, scenarios...
10:31:32 <Coco-Banana-Man> you probably checked it from the NewGRF-List and not from the main menu...
10:33:04 <ragzid> Coco-Banana-Man: you're right :) i missed that button first in main menu according to translation
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10:47:35 <ctibor> congratz on 1.0.0 release :-)
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12:20:37 <Belugas> congratulations to all who made version 1.0 possible. This is QUITE a milestone!
12:21:03 <Forked> didn't you do this last year too? release on april 1st when no one would belive it? =p
12:23:18 <Forked> anyway, congratulations and most excellent work =)
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12:36:14 <planetmaker> hm, there you start an OpenTTD 1.0.0 server and 30 minutes later you already have 6 companies and seven clients...
12:38:34 <planetmaker> We got a desync on a newgrf - free virgin 1.0.0 server... :-(
12:39:59 <planetmaker> (no it's not april fools joke :-( )
12:40:57 <Coco-Banana-Man> oh... andythenorth?
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12:49:35 <glx> planetmaker: and with trunk ?
12:50:04 <planetmaker> glx, I've seen one desync on our .pro server a few days back.
12:50:10 <planetmaker> But once and only once.
12:51:05 <planetmaker> and only seen and not experienced myself. Not been able to re-produce so far
12:56:40 <Ammler> also no server side patches
12:56:48 <Ammler> it is really vanilla trunk
12:56:56 <Ammler> well, not trunk, 1.0 :-)
12:57:18 <planetmaker> not even self-compiled
12:57:27 <planetmaker> built by (suse?) compile farm
12:57:42 <Ammler> well, that is the same as self compiled
12:58:06 <Ammler> they build a vm for suse 11.2
12:58:21 <glx> as always: how to reproduce :)
12:58:41 <Ammler> the desyncy guy doesn't know, how to chat ;-)
12:58:59 <Ammler> so we have no idea, what is used there...
12:59:11 <planetmaker> glx, if I knew, I'd tell. For sure :-)
12:59:30 <Yexo> <Ammler> the desyncy guy doesn't know, how to chat ;-) <- then how are you sure he's using vanilla 1.0.0? he might be using some buggy client-side patches
12:59:31 <planetmaker> Currently I'm just telling: folks, keep your eyes open for that. :-)
12:59:41 <planetmaker> Yexo, he might. Sure
12:59:55 <planetmaker> The guy in r19443 claimed he did use the CF's binary, though
13:00:40 <planetmaker> as it's the 2nd one in relatively short time... I'm skeptical. Haven't seen it in 12 months before.
13:03:36 <veio> got problem with openTTD
13:04:11 <Yexo> we can only help you if you let us know what your problem is (don't ask to ask, just ask)
13:04:34 <veio> when i go Lan menu my TTD just freezes
13:04:50 <veio> sometimes if i lucky i get in game and freeze again
13:05:54 <veio> but single player i can play normally
13:06:04 <Yexo> what version do you use?
13:08:00 <Eddi|zuHause> whe does apple computer get into the guinness book of records, as the longest running april's fools joke?
13:08:34 <planetmaker> velo sometimes the network needs a bit time to talk to the other computers. How much time did you allow?
13:08:51 <veio> i dont belive its begind firewall ive allow ttd
13:09:13 <DorpsGek> planetmaker: OpenTTD uses TCP and UDP port 3979 for server <-> client communication, UDP port 3978 for masterserver (advertise) communication (outbound), and TCP port 3978 for content service, a.k.a. BaNaNaS (outbound)
13:09:31 <planetmaker> ^ are those ports open in your PC's firewall and in your router for two-way communication?
13:10:03 <veio> router for sure... but lemme check firewall
13:12:31 <Belugas> 1) close the window 2) turn on the heat 3) put a coat on
13:12:34 <Yexo> does it also freeze if you open the check online content window?
13:12:46 <Belugas> ho... that kind of freeze..
13:13:02 <veio> yes only online and lan freezes , single player is fine
13:13:24 <Yexo> veio: and the "check online content" button in the main menu?
13:14:00 <Rubidium> veio: how long did you wait before killing OpenTTD if it froze up?
13:14:30 <veio> got 4gb ram that shold be enoght:d
13:14:45 <planetmaker> it's not a ram issue. A network connection speed issue
13:14:55 <Rubidium> veio: could you let it wait for like 5 to 10 minutes?
13:15:43 <Coco-Banana-Man> wtf..? Steel is needed for town growth? :-O
13:15:51 <veio> network router is 52mb/sec
13:16:24 <Yexo> Coco-Banana-Man: either you've changed your newgrfs during the game or you're playing with a newgrf that sets steel as needed by towns
13:16:30 <planetmaker> Coco-Banana-Man, it's a newgrf probably which changed that
13:17:01 <Coco-Banana-Man> I'm playing with ECS, but didn't change it in-game
13:17:19 <veio> the game freezes.. works like 1 sec and freezes again
13:18:30 <Coco-Banana-Man> I'm playing a tropic scenario... maybe it is because ECS doesn't have water and the game somehow changed it into Steel?
13:18:40 <Rubidium> veio: so "new game", "online content" and "multiplayer" all freeze?
13:18:56 <Rubidium> generating the new game that is
13:19:22 <veio> only multyplayer.. but its working fine atm
13:20:37 <Rubidium> it's odd that generating a new map doesn't freeze and the online content/multiplayer does freeze
13:20:41 <planetmaker> another desync :-(
13:21:01 <Rubidium> (although the freezing altogether it odd in any case)
13:21:08 <Rubidium> planetmaker: again the same person?
13:22:24 <planetmaker> but doesn't answer either.
13:23:07 <planetmaker> what's the NPF setting to check for, do you know by heart?
13:24:43 <Rubidium> nope, but in you client check whether (in the advanced settings) you're using NPF for road or rail vehicles
13:24:59 <planetmaker> I'm not connected right now to the server :-)
13:25:43 <planetmaker> <Stablean> planetmaker: Current value for 'pathfinder_for_trains' is: '2' (min: 1, max: 2)
13:27:12 <planetmaker> <Stablean> planetmaker: Current value for 'pathfinder_for_roadvehs' is: '2' (min: 1, max: 2)
13:27:12 <planetmaker> <planetmaker> !rcon set pathfinder_for_ships
13:27:12 <planetmaker> <Stablean> planetmaker: Current value for 'pathfinder_for_ships' is: '0' (min: 0, max: 2)
13:27:51 <Rubidium> so it's most likely not caused by the backports since 1.0.0-RC3
13:28:11 <Rubidium> meaning 1.0.0-RC3 should desync too, if 1.0.0 does
13:28:48 <planetmaker> might. I recall having seen one irreproducable in r19443.
13:28:54 <Rubidium> given that a greater number of people have downloaded 1.0.0-RC3 than 1.0.0 (up to now) I find it odd that it's seen right now
13:29:34 <planetmaker> I agree. But maybe people just don't report...
13:30:30 <planetmaker> I mean... so far I don't have any other 'facts' than having it seen reported by the server two / three times. Without further evidence...
13:32:47 <planetmaker> and it's not different things, it's not newgrf-related. That's good news, too.
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13:39:26 <planetmaker> interestingly it happened always nearly immediately after joining.
13:40:19 <Yexo> does the server use opengfx/original graphics? and the players that desynced?
13:42:27 <planetmaker> Yexo, how can I be sure to know which the server uses?
13:42:45 <planetmaker> In ~/.openttd there is an original.tar and we also have the opengfx in the content_download
13:43:40 <planetmaker> in any case I cannot tell for any of the players
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14:29:36 <Ammler> he running stable is fun, player join with 2nd company to terraform...
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14:34:52 <Ammler> running 4 hours a server and already needs banning
14:36:39 <peter1138> running 4 hours a server ?
14:38:22 <Eddi|zuHause> weird-swiss-language showing through :)
15:00:39 <Priski> Is there a way to set openttd use other location for data/ saves etc gamedata other than "MyDocuments/OpenTTD" in a way that it is still shared between 2 binaries?
15:01:36 <Ammler> readme tells you the locations
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15:28:50 <Priski> Ammler there is no way to have own custom dir?
15:29:13 <Rubidium> Priski: how would OpenTTD know about that custom dir?
15:30:25 <glx> there is a way (but that implies code change and compilation)
15:30:33 <Rubidium> nevertheless, with the "working directory" and a shortcut you can set it to use any directory (as long as you put an openttd.cfg there and there isn't one in the my documents directory)
15:31:29 <Priski> that did not crossed my mind
15:36:48 <Priski> ITS ALIVE, MWAHAHAHAHAAAA (thanks guys :)
15:37:28 <Priski> great to have some games ready-to-go on external usb drive ^^
15:39:12 <Priski> btw is tomorrow national holiday in lot of countries?
15:39:39 <Rubidium> yeah, tomorrow it's "OpenTTD gaming day"
15:40:13 <peter1138> i reckon it's laying in bed recovering day
15:41:22 <Priski> I have this terrible urge to start drinking even though tomorrow everyone is getting wasted
15:41:34 <Rubidium> only 262 OpenTTD downloads in the last 10 minutes :(
15:43:10 <Priski> I'm just waiting to luukland servers to be updated to 1.0
15:47:00 <Priski> never tried those seemed very intresting
15:47:19 <Priski> Just cant play just "plain Ottd" anymore
15:48:56 <Priski> luukland's site doesn't seem to tell much about what you do on their servers
15:49:31 <Priski> Goals and campains gotta be fun?
15:49:53 <Priski> I gotta have IRL friends to play this
15:51:31 <Priski> I miss the days when I actually played CS 1.6 on a clan that was not-so-serious and it was so fun at the time
15:52:21 * Rubidium remembers playing tag in Unreal :)
15:52:51 <Priski> We would get on mics and headphones and during a match somene got the idea to drink beer while having a match
15:55:05 <Priski> It would be kinda fun to play OpenTTD with bunch of friends with mics and talking bs while playing just for funs
15:55:24 <peter1138> just fire up teamspeak or something
15:56:03 <Priski> during 1.6 times tho, we preferred Ventrilo
15:56:30 <Priski> caused less lag and voice quality was better
15:57:10 <Priski> but it was propietary and hassle to work with sometimes
15:57:37 <Priski> propietary I mean shareware bs
15:57:56 <peter1138> teamspeak is proprietory too
15:58:20 <Priski> It had stupid ass limitations
15:59:36 <Priski> userlimit was too low i think
15:59:52 <Priski> cant remember clearly, long time ago since used
16:00:33 <Priski> KenjiE20: never tried, gotta try that
16:01:05 <Priski> "open source, low-latency, high quality voice chat software primarily intended for use while gaming."
16:01:13 <Priski> sounds about just right
16:01:38 <KenjiE20> yea it supports overlays and things ala xfire, which is neat
16:02:15 <KenjiE20> just no reseller stuff yet, so unless you own big pipes, it might be a bit weird
16:09:14 <Priski> finally kaffeine kicks in
16:09:41 <Priski> just pain in the ass getting sleep rythm back to normal
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17:29:53 * andythenorth wonders if it will take 6 years for FIRS 1.0 :o
17:31:49 <Coco-Banana-Man> andythenorth, suggestion: Do something to disallow forests and maybe farms in desert :P
17:32:10 <andythenorth> forests yes, farms....no
17:32:31 <andythenorth> but not in the next 6 months ;)
17:38:13 <Priski> I tried that first time about week ago
17:39:14 <Priski> I have been planning to terraforming-cost-up + firs newgrf game for just for kicks
17:39:37 <Priski> its just ridiculous how mucht stuff you can transfer on that
17:40:35 <Priski> small map, high indrustry count, and terraforming "block" + multiplayer coop = must be serious fun
17:42:13 <andythenorth> Priski: feedback is appreciated :)
17:42:44 <andythenorth> I have 67 pages of opinions on what the set *should* be....then I release 0.1 and get.....
17:42:51 <andythenorth> ....deathly silence :P
17:43:23 <Rubidium> andythenorth: ofcourse, they're playing with it... the complaining will come several days to weeks after the release
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17:45:30 <CIA-6> OpenTTD: translators * r19532 /trunk/src/lang/traditional_chinese.txt:
17:45:30 <CIA-6> OpenTTD: -Update from WebTranslator v3.0:
17:45:30 <CIA-6> OpenTTD: traditional_chinese - 3 changes by josesun
17:49:50 <Rubidium> today is definitely going to set the binary download record :)
17:51:14 <Rubidium> 11000 downloads in the roughly last 10 hours, previous record is 8600-ish
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18:01:53 <Terkhen> I'm currently playing a FIRS-HEQS game with no terraforming too, the trams are nice :P
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18:02:17 <Priski> andythenorth: sorry I was elswhere, it's your child this FIRS?
18:02:43 <Priski> I remeber seeing your nick on openttdcoop dev project site
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18:04:35 <andythenorth> Priski: yup, "I done FIRS"....with a lot of help :)
18:06:46 <Priski> Yeah I know, open source is not owned by anyone
18:07:14 <Priski> group effort is the best effort after all
18:09:39 <Priski> man how I would want now get the hell out of here and get to drinkin, but no designated driver or even car, no money to cab and people are 45km away
18:11:00 <Priski> I havent felt this good for long time, don't ask what drugs is involved
18:11:10 <Priski> lets just say its holiday and all is ok
18:11:34 <Rubidium> well all know that FIRS and OTTD are addictive
18:14:09 <Rubidium> andythenorth: mmmhs?
18:14:36 <andythenorth> I can't release HEQS trams - hoping Dan Mack is sending more sprites
18:14:42 <andythenorth> I can't do much on FIRS - need a break
18:14:48 <andythenorth> I know! Boats :)
18:15:46 <Alberth> Priski: stuff made in open source does have an owner. He is just so nice to let you see and use everything.
18:16:06 <Terkhen> andythenorth: I was thinking that the log raft could be refitted to smaller capacities, like the HEQS trams
18:16:29 <andythenorth> Terkhen: what do you think of the refitting?
18:16:34 <andythenorth> is it annoying in the menus?
18:16:43 <andythenorth> I keep refitting to coal by accident :(
18:17:12 * Priski gives HUGE hug all OpenTTD devs, main and sideprojects all combined
18:17:23 <Terkhen> kind of, it takes too much space... but it is better than having different vehicles just for capacity
18:17:59 <andythenorth> I'm thinking of changing the tractors, bulldozers etc to use the same method
18:18:06 * andythenorth wonders if there's a better way
18:18:51 <planetmaker> [20:15] <Alberth> Priski: stuff made in open source does have an owner. He is just so nice to let you see and use everything. <-- upon certain conditions ;-)
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18:20:02 <andythenorth> Terkhen: you're working on a generic cargo list order?
18:21:17 <Priski> planetmaker: Im not lawyer but even licencin granst all cool things IT rarely removes orginal authors rights
18:21:58 <planetmaker> Priski: yes, that's what I'm saying
18:22:30 <planetmaker> But I'm saying also: Opensource like GPL allows you to do nearly anything with it.
18:22:41 <Priski> planetmaker: I did know that but I like to take filosofical stances once a while... ;)
18:22:52 <planetmaker> But not like using it, modifying it, then selling it WITHOUT sharing your modifications.
18:23:10 <R-Blade> that was intended to prevent the apple/bsd style
18:23:15 <planetmaker> it's a kind of tid for tad game, at least with GPL.
18:23:15 <R-Blade> "welp, my code now lol"
18:23:19 <planetmaker> BSD is more permissive
18:23:21 <Priski> I do programming myself and have been closely involved licensin messes before
18:23:38 <R-Blade> and now GPLV3 was to prevent the TiVo liscense
18:23:46 <R-Blade> I usually use mit for my school work
18:25:43 <andythenorth> Terkhen: I was wondering if that will also apply to the vehicle refit list?
18:26:16 <Terkhen> I don't know if it could / should be applied
18:27:26 <andythenorth> it would make more sense to me.....however....
18:27:49 <andythenorth> ...I *really* prefer the 'filter by string' option as used in the newgrf window
18:28:15 <andythenorth> compared to clicking on a long lost
18:29:18 <planetmaker> download count on bananas seems to rise a bit faster than in the pre-1.0.0 time ;-)
18:29:38 <planetmaker> 700 OpenGFX downloads in 24h or so
18:30:13 <CIA-6> OpenTTD: terkhen * r19533 /trunk/src/ (roadveh_cmd.cpp vehicle_gui.cpp): -Fix [FS#3720]: Vehicle details window did not resize correctly after refitting a road vehicle to a longer variant.
18:31:55 <Alberth> planetmaker: good thing 1.0.0 is not released every day :)
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18:38:27 <planetmaker> Alberth: indeed :-)
19:02:52 <Ammler> the best part about 1.0.0 is that we have another intro save
19:03:20 <Ammler> also you see it mostly only some seconds
19:03:48 <Ammler> but that I miss in trunk
19:04:27 <Yexo> andythenorth: "The other one may well pop up in FIRS sometime :)" <- from the FISH topic
19:04:35 <Yexo> you really have done too much FIRS coding :p
19:07:30 <andythenorth> I'm going to merge my newgrfs into FIRSHEQS
19:07:42 <andythenorth> then you have to play the whole game *my* way :P
19:07:43 <Ammler> planetmaker: did you ever watch helicopters in opengfx?
19:07:55 <Alberth> nah, next acronym must start with FIT, obviously
19:08:20 <andythenorth> BANDIT could be renamed
19:08:46 <andythenorth> FITs Into Trucks....
19:09:28 * andythenorth wonders if this meat has gone....bad
19:09:28 <Ammler> confirmed, helicopters have a glitch in opengfx
19:09:33 * andythenorth only one way to find out
19:09:55 <andythenorth> Yexo: fixed that typo, thanks ;)
19:15:40 <Ammler> ups, wrong channel, well...
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19:48:40 <CIA-6> OpenTTD: terkhen * r19534 /trunk/src/ (cargotype.cpp cargotype.h newgrf.cpp strings.cpp): -Add: Keep a list of cargo specifications sorted by cargo class / name.
19:49:03 * andythenorth wonders whether to compile again :o
19:50:42 <CIA-6> OpenTTD: terkhen * r19535 /trunk/src/graph_gui.cpp: -Feature: Sort cargos at the cargo payment rates graph.
19:52:25 <CIA-6> OpenTTD: terkhen * r19536 /trunk/src/build_vehicle_gui.cpp: -Feature: Sort cargos at the filter by cargo dropdown in the build vehicle window.
19:54:39 <Terkhen> andythenorth: I have added sorting the refit window to my todo list, but I expect it to be more complicated than this if a single cargo can get multiple refits
19:58:47 * andythenorth compiles openttd (again) :o
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20:03:49 <andythenorth> should I be reporting compile warnings (not fails)
20:04:24 <planetmaker> andythenorth: yes
20:08:08 <Yexo> those warnings are incorrect
20:08:14 <Yexo> the compiler is just not smart enough
20:08:58 <planetmaker> andythenorth: gcc-4.0.1, right?
20:10:01 <Yexo> - GNU Compiler Collection (GCC) 3.3 - 4.5.
20:10:03 <Yexo> Versions 4.1 and earlier give bogus warnings about uninitialised variables.
20:16:41 <andythenorth> Terkhen: nice cargo list :)
20:18:38 <OwenS> Yexo: With ProgSigs I got a bogus uninitialized warning from a user on 4.2 :s
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20:25:03 <Terkhen> that's the new difficulty setting, right?
20:41:34 <Eddi|zuHause> PeterT: have you looked at the calendar today? :p
20:44:32 <Terkhen> why is the plane icon missing? ancient opengfx?
20:51:06 <Terkhen> why, are you planning to ask for a ransom? :/
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21:23:12 <Terkhen> andythenorth: in FIRS, it is intended to have a iron ore to steel production ratio so low?
21:24:35 <planetmaker> [22:44] <Terkhen> why is the plane icon missing? ancient opengfx? <-- uhm...? can you descripe/ screenshot it?
21:24:55 <Terkhen> I won't be sending scrap metal to aluminium plants anytime soon then :P
21:25:08 <Terkhen> planetmaker: I was talking about the link PeterT pasted
21:26:15 <planetmaker> it's like I found in the version I wanted to release the airport cursor sprite replaced by a passenger rail car... not that something similar slipped in ;-)
21:27:36 <CIA-6> OpenTTD: rubidium * r19537 /extra/website/frontpage/templates/frontpage/development.html: [Website] -Add: mention the compiled (by the CF) helper tools (grfcodec, nforenum, catcodec and pngcodec) on the development page (planetmaker)
21:28:06 <andythenorth> Terkhen: deliver some scrap every 30 days or so to the steel mill...the rest to the aluminium plant ;)
21:28:17 * andythenorth tried so hard to avoid micro-management :|
21:31:29 <Rubidium> yay! Today's the day with the most bananas downloads in bandwidth and still 2.5 hours to go
21:32:40 <planetmaker> Rubidium: why still 2.5 hours? GMT?
21:34:45 <Terkhen> hmmm... no, it does not happen in with r19536 / FIRS 0.1.1
21:35:12 <andythenorth> I don't see that
21:36:21 <Terkhen> I think it's happening for most FIRS cargos in my savegame, but it doesn't when starting a new game... I'll try to reproduce it
21:40:15 <andythenorth> Terkhen: try setting param 0 to 0
21:42:17 <Terkhen> thanks, that was the cause
21:43:13 <andythenorth> param 0 is the economy setting....but it's massively unfinished.... sorry :o
21:44:05 <Terkhen> you should change the readme then :P
21:44:43 <Rubidium> you read the readme?
21:45:25 <planetmaker> it's certainly just a faultily named do-not-readme.txt
21:45:41 <andythenorth> who reads the readme m)
21:46:14 <andythenorth> I knew there was something I forgot when I released :P
21:46:42 <andythenorth> Terkhen: how did you even find the readme? I can find it in my repo, but I have no idea what Bananas does with it
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21:47:12 <Terkhen> yes, I usually read readmes... not completely, though :P
21:48:07 <andythenorth> where does the readme end up?
21:48:13 <Rubidium> andythenorth: in the tar
21:48:18 <wallyweb> planetmaker: Excellent! That makes two! :-) I've highlighted patchman but I won't hold my breath.
21:48:31 <Terkhen> andythenorth: I compile with make bundle, the readme is copied into the firs-nightly folder
21:48:40 <planetmaker> yeah, but that's now MUCH better than before :-)
21:48:47 <planetmaker> Thanks for bringing it up again :-)
21:49:03 <planetmaker> and going fixing it, too :-)
21:49:38 <wallyweb> No problem ... it filled in a slow afternoon.
21:49:55 <planetmaker> Terkhen: yes, the readme should be part of the nightly bundle. But all inside a tar, no?
21:50:31 <planetmaker> or do you mean when you untar it?
21:50:39 <planetmaker> Should it be in a separate sub-dir?
21:51:06 <Terkhen> I haven't noticed any tar being created after using make bundle
21:51:13 <andythenorth> where does bananas put the tar?
21:51:20 <planetmaker> Terkhen: yes. make bundle_tar does that ;-)
21:51:28 <planetmaker> or make install does it implicitly
21:51:50 <planetmaker> andythenorth: ~/Documents/OpenTTD/content_download/data/....tar
21:51:57 <Terkhen> see? I don't read readmes completely :P
21:52:36 <planetmaker> make bundle just creates a dir which has everything a release needs
21:53:26 <Terkhen> then the part about "make bundle" of the FIRS readme is outdated
21:53:40 * andythenorth wonders how players find the readme?
21:53:55 <planetmaker> Terkhen: might be...
21:54:10 <planetmaker> Though 'make bundle' never installed anything
21:54:19 <planetmaker> at least not that I recall ;-)
21:54:25 <planetmaker> And I wrote the damn makefile(s)
21:54:32 <andythenorth> Terkhen: looks like you're finding my tasks for FIRS 0.2 :)
21:55:42 <Terkhen> only those related to a readme that will never be read :P
21:56:17 * andythenorth thinks 'hg rm readme.txt'
22:03:41 <fjb> Hm, how about an in game readme viewer?
22:03:56 *** Timitry_ has joined #openttd
22:04:21 * Rubidium volunteers fjb for the task
22:04:27 <SmatZ> I was thinking about forcing users to read the readme by asking them several questions from readme before running the game
22:05:08 * fjb has more than enough other C coding to do. :-(
22:05:10 <PeterT> what is the 5,843th character?
22:05:23 <SmatZ> "You have Ubuntu and you don't hear sounds. What will you do?" "a) open just another bugreport" "b) install pulseaudio" ...
22:06:03 <Terkhen> c) open a post at the forums without searching first
22:06:05 <Ammler> SmatZ: every year such a question
22:06:38 <Ammler> and depending of your answer, it costs you money ;-)
22:06:59 <planetmaker> One of the other famous ones should be asking for the path(s) to the newgrf files or where to get AIs
22:07:08 <fjb> Or it raises landscaping costs.
22:07:32 <PeterT> or the game crashes constantly with silly messages
22:07:32 <planetmaker> with scriptable scenarios it'd even be possible :-P
22:07:45 <Rubidium> "There is a new release of OpenTTD, what's the first thing to do?" a) download the binary package from the OpenTTD website and play, b) got to the bug tracker of my favorite distribution and write a bug report about them not having included the new version in their (frozen) repository yet (without checking whether someone else reported it already ofcourse)
22:08:10 <Rubidium> c) think it's an April fool's joke and bugger off falling in another April fool's joke
22:12:33 <SmatZ> it will go back to 1.1. in 9 months :-p
22:12:40 <fjb> That will get them into trouble next year.
22:14:26 <Terkhen> and it includes original files :P
22:15:14 <aber> and who else clicked the file?
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22:17:11 <Ammler> planetmaker: you could link to this project from the Mac issue thread on tt-ms.de ;-)
22:18:57 <Terkhen> an openttd build that contains a zip file with another openttd build inside it that includes the original files does not seem very advisable to me
22:19:19 <Ammler> is that how universal works?
22:20:18 <planetmaker> not quite. "Proper" binaries come in dmg form for macs.
22:20:39 <planetmaker> and I won't link to the openttdformac site
22:21:06 <planetmaker> well... I could. But not sure :-)
22:21:07 <Ammler> Terkhen: maybe the mac guy didn't realize that
22:21:48 <planetmaker> that guy should just run 'make bundle_dmg'
22:22:04 <Ammler> isn't __MACOSX hidden for you?
22:22:25 <planetmaker> ./configure --enable-universal && make bundle_dmg
22:22:27 <Ammler> a folder called that way
22:22:31 <planetmaker> or something like that
22:22:53 <Ammler> ah, they are also there natively
22:22:58 <glx> should we click on "Report inappropriate content" ?
22:23:04 <aber> ./configure --enable-static --static-icu --enable-universal
22:23:12 <planetmaker> not needed, I think, glx
22:23:24 <planetmaker> it has the license infos, or *should*
22:23:28 <Terkhen> I don't know if he included them on purpose... but if he didn't he's not being careful enough with the binaries, that's why I think they are not advisable
22:24:48 <planetmaker> with that I agree
22:25:42 <SpComb> it's a copyright violation
22:26:06 <planetmaker> no license file in there?
22:26:12 <SpComb> a .zip with the original TTD data files
22:26:46 <Terkhen> it's clearly violating the terms of use of sourceforge, yup
22:28:39 <planetmaker> if he'd taken opengfx no harm would have been done. :-)
22:29:29 <Ammler> why does nobody make openttd available on macports?
22:29:53 <aber> you need to be a maintainer...
22:30:09 <Ammler> that means, employer of Apple?
22:31:11 <planetmaker> might actually be a tempting way to distribute OpenTTD for macs :-)
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22:33:41 <__ln__> does MacPorts distribute native Mac GUI apps?
22:35:16 <aber> hey, there is adium (very old) ...
22:37:14 <aber> there are a few, just search for aqua :)
22:42:31 <andythenorth> I have installed a few macports gui apps IIRC
22:42:53 <Zuu> It's insane how many special cases that can happen when trying to replace a level crossing with a bridge. If there is a crashed vehicle in the way, there can still be non-crashed vehicles on that tile that could get stuck etc. When vehicles turn around at the edge of a tile they are actually on the other tile which becomes .. Fun :-)
22:44:33 <Zuu> Now the only thing that could happen I think is that other companies vehicles could get stuck if they are at the same tile as one of my crashed vehicles, but not if they are (temporarily) on a tile without own crashed vehicles.
22:44:52 <OwenS> Zuu: Do you really care about another company's vehicles? :p
22:45:11 <Zuu> Well, yes since CluelessPlus is a kind AI.
22:45:57 <OwenS> And it sounds a bit like ProgSigs' If block, which is funky as it's one real and two pseudo instructions, and there is no simple instruction order (x -> if -> then? x -> if -> after? x -> if -> else?)
22:48:10 <Zuu> The funciton that replaces a level crossing with a bridge or tunnel is 723 lines long. :-)
22:49:42 <Zuu> It does contain quite a few anonymous functions eg. in the shape of { } blocks with local vars that get destroyed after that block.
22:51:13 <OwenS> Thats not an anonymous function, just an anonymous scope
22:51:34 <Zuu> Ok, that's maybe the correct name.
22:51:58 <Eddi|zuHause> anonymous function are usually lambdas
22:52:35 <OwenS> An anonymous function would be something like Javascript's "function(x) { return 1 + x; }" or Python's "lambda x: 1 + x"
22:52:46 <OwenS> (Or Alterscript's def(x) 1 + x;
22:53:09 *** Laps|z is now known as Lapsus
23:06:14 <Lapsus> Hey, anyone out there running multiple autopilot servers from the same physical machine? I'm getting an error I don't understand. Using the latest ap+ and 1.0.0 on linux.
23:06:52 <Lapsus> I'll pastebin the output, sec
23:09:22 <KenjiE20> a) check openttd launches b) check it launches the save (optional) c) turn on irc_debug
23:10:08 <Lapsus> openttd on it's own launches. I've got no save, turning on the debug and seeing what happens
23:12:07 <Ammler> Lapsus: which distro (version)?
23:14:19 <Lapsus> I'm using the linux_generic binaries, as it's easier to keep everything in one place
23:15:08 <Lapsus> Also worth noting, is that there's already one copy of ap+ running an openttd server on this machine. and I think in saying that I found what I forgot to change
23:15:57 <planetmaker> nickname or channel?
23:16:03 <Lapsus> Sorry for my excessive stupidity :D
23:16:04 <KenjiE20> openttd on it's own launches. <--- grrrr
23:16:39 <Lapsus> No, each copy has it's own config file
23:17:04 <KenjiE20> but launching it on it's own, presumes you were using the same config as AP
23:17:34 <Lapsus> I was, unless I'm more dense than I though
23:18:20 <Lapsus> Now all that's left is to see if this machine can actually handle two servers at once :v
23:18:24 <Ammler> I wonder, is the devzone project linked somewhere?
23:18:47 <KenjiE20> on our wiki it is iirc
23:20:22 <Lapsus> The openttdcoop wiki page for ap+ doesn't actually seem to link to the devzone
23:21:37 <Lapsus> apparently it just took longer to crash
23:21:50 <Lapsus> I'll deal with it when I get back.
23:22:04 *** Lapsus is now known as L|pizza
23:35:01 *** L|pizza is now known as Lapsus
23:55:27 <Lapsus> Okay, so my problem with autopilot just went from stupidly simple to bizarre, go me.
23:56:08 <Lapsus> ap+ crashed again, I think it's the same message, but the IRC bot for that instance is still connected and responsive.
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continue to next day ⏵
