IRC logs for #openttd on OFTC at 2010-03-12
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00:00:48 <SpComb^> must be some routing anomly then, because it does work from my dedus tunnel
00:00:54 <Rubidium> it does from my server which has native IPv6
00:01:22 <SpComb^> freenet6 -> fihel01 broken, then
00:01:45 <SpComb^> can you give a freenet6 address?
00:02:47 <Rubidium> 2001:5c0:1400:b::196 is likely the 'other' end of my tunnel
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00:29:30 <Zuu> It's always nice to read your email and see that the devs has been able to fix another bug, making things even more stable.
00:34:37 <JakeGrimshaw> about what ? i forget :)
00:38:44 <Rubidium> Zuu: yeah; I'm starting to get a bit happier about the state of the bug tracker again
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00:40:45 <JakeGrimshaw> anyone eyeing my Swiss scenario then ?! :P
00:40:53 <Rubidium> 2 are more or less harmless, one is annoying for AI developers, one is possibly annoying for competitive players. The rest is either "not enough information" or "Mac OS X"
00:44:13 <JakeGrimshaw> also, does anyone here know if it would be possible to change the rock graphics ?
00:44:22 <JakeGrimshaw> if some were re-drawn, could they be used instead
00:45:02 <Yexo> you could ask if opengfx wants to include the new version, or alternatively create a newgrf that replaces the rock graphics
00:45:25 <JakeGrimshaw> i was hoping maybe to replace them with ice graphics
00:45:31 <JakeGrimshaw> for mountain faces and glaciers
00:45:33 <Zuu> Rubidium: The one annoying for the AI devs, is it that one that compile errors do not show when you load a game?
00:45:50 <Yexo> JakeGrimshaw: that would be perfect for a newgrf
00:46:12 <JakeGrimshaw> awesome, I shall look into that
00:46:35 <Zuu> Though you was going to post pone fixing that one to after 1.0, but if you do it before I won't complain. :-)
00:46:48 <JakeGrimshaw> also, i dont know how much you use rocks + Alpine Climate ? but if/when you do, there are graphical errors in there.
00:47:00 <JakeGrimshaw> not really anyone's problem, i know, but i would like to look into getting them fixed myself
00:47:12 <Yexo> what kind of graphical problems?
00:47:28 <JakeGrimshaw> take one tile individually
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00:47:56 <Rubidium> Zuu: true, though it's one of the bugs I won't postpone 1.0.0 for
00:48:10 <Rubidium> and I'm far from certain how much needs to be changed to solve it
00:48:16 <JakeGrimshaw> you may or may not know that since 1.0.0 beta 3 (ish), it is possible to place rocks under snow, and then when the snow retreats the rock still shows ?
00:48:37 <Yexo> JakeGrimshaw: yes, I coded that :)
00:48:38 <Rubidium> JakeGrimshaw: don't think Yexo knows that
00:48:45 <Rubidium> argh... just too late :(
00:48:50 <JakeGrimshaw> ohhh im talking to just the right person then !
00:49:02 <Zuu> Indeed, it would also depend I guess if you fix it properly or just a workaround. But still without having taken a good look at the code it's hard to say how much work it is.
00:49:37 <Yexo> Rubidium: have you looked at that bug already? Else I can take a look now
00:49:55 <Rubidium> Yexo: no, haven't looked at it
00:50:06 <JakeGrimshaw> basically, a rock tile under the snow is fine, but as the snow retreats, you get the tiles that are say 1/4 grass and 3/4 snow, then a month later 1/2 and 1/2. and then the following month 3/4 grass and 1/4 snow, and then finally you get the rock appearing.
00:50:19 <JakeGrimshaw> would it be possible to create tiles that are 1/4 rock and 3/4 snow ?
00:50:23 <JakeGrimshaw> or snow on rocks ?
00:50:50 <Yexo> not sure, since there are no graphics in the baseset for that
00:51:12 <JakeGrimshaw> true, but if some were drawn, would it be possible code-wise ?
00:51:23 <Yexo> codewise it's no problem at all
00:51:56 <JakeGrimshaw> hmmm maybe i shall have a look at it
00:52:05 <JakeGrimshaw> i didnt know how many people (if any) still use the AlpineClimate grf
00:52:08 <Yexo> but I have no idea how it'd work on the newgrf side
00:53:06 <JakeGrimshaw> well thanks for your help anyway
01:03:31 <PeterT> you saw I made that comment that we would use the scenario on the server
01:03:39 <PeterT> #jolteon is the server's channel
01:07:24 <Eddi|zuHause> "Die Geister die ich rief"
01:13:30 <Eddi|zuHause> (that's basically the 18th century version of a forkbomb)
01:26:41 <JakeGrimshaw> people still here ?
01:28:08 <JakeGrimshaw> is it possible to play as yourself and as an AI in a single player game. I know you can cheat to switch to control them, but it is possible to stop them building anything ?
01:28:47 <Yexo> save the game, remove all AIs you have then reload the game
01:28:54 <Yexo> the dummy AI will be loaded instead and it doesn't do anything
01:29:20 <Eddi|zuHause> you can program your AI to stop on certain conditions (like a sign posted somewhere)
01:29:47 <Eddi|zuHause> unfortunately, you can't chat with AIs :(
01:30:13 <Yexo> I had a patch for that (before noai was merged to trunk)
01:30:42 <JakeGrimshaw> so it will enable me to have say, different train companies ?
01:31:00 <Yexo> you can also create an AI that does nothing
01:31:06 <Yexo> then start that AI a fwe times
01:31:10 <Yexo> and you have the companies for yourself
01:31:25 <JakeGrimshaw> but that would involve making my own AI, yes ?
01:31:59 <Yexo> yes, but that's very simple if it just has to sleep
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01:32:36 <JakeGrimshaw> i know it wouldnt be advised, but could you not load any old AI, let it crash because you have so many grf's added, and then just use them because they would not build ?
01:33:34 <Yexo> but then you'd have to find a way to reliable crash them
01:33:50 <JakeGrimshaw> they do seem to crash when i load my usual grf's (train sets etc)
01:34:09 <Yexo> you should report those crashes in the noai forum
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01:34:17 <Yexo> if they're not reported they can't be fixed
01:34:37 <JakeGrimshaw> oh, i just thought that the AI's werent created to be used with a mixture of train sets, so i never bothered reporting them
01:35:59 <Yexo> some may not work, but at least they should not crash
01:38:05 <CIA-6> OpenTTD: yexo * r19389 /trunk/src/ (settings.cpp table/settings.h): -Fix [FS3676]: only show the "No AIs available" error message when explicitly changing the number of AI opponents
01:43:02 <JakeGrimshaw> that saving of game technique didnt seem to work
01:43:08 <JakeGrimshaw> they just resumed again when i loaded the game
01:43:42 <Yexo> <Yexo> save the game, remove all AIs you have then reload the game <- you also have to remove all AIs you have, then no AI can be started
01:45:45 <JakeGrimshaw> ok, so I start a game with 2 AI's, save it, quit, go to the main screen and go back to 0 Ai's, and then load the game ?
01:46:08 <Yexo> no, just remove all AI tar files from your computer
01:47:22 <JakeGrimshaw> remove all, or just the AI that i began the game with ?
01:48:29 <Yexo> all, otherwise another AI will be loaded instead
01:48:38 <Yexo> but as I said, creating a sleepr AI that does nothing would be easier
01:48:44 <Yexo> and still allows you to play other games with an AI
01:49:15 <JakeGrimshaw> another idea i am just trying is to play with a StreetTraffic AI, but just never load a cars.grf file
01:54:35 <JakeGrimshaw> this seems to work ok
01:54:48 <JakeGrimshaw> i might use this until i have the time to make an AI as you descrived
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01:57:31 <JakeGrimshaw> blimey, I know you said quick to do, but i thought you meant for someone that was used to making them !
01:57:57 <Yexo> I am used to making them :)
01:59:57 <JakeGrimshaw> are running loads of these AIs likely to slow the game up like a normal AI, even though they are not doing anything ?
02:00:37 <Yexo> you won't even be able to measure the difference without or with this AI
02:01:54 <JakeGrimshaw> is there any way to relieve the 14 max limit on AIs ?
02:02:10 <Yexo> that would be a lot of work
02:02:29 <JakeGrimshaw> oh, not just a simple change then
02:03:15 <Zuu> Why would you like to have more than 14 AIs? ;-u
02:07:07 <Zuu> Why can't everyone have black AIs?
02:07:14 <JakeGrimshaw> well, if i was to make each one a swiss train company
02:07:22 <JakeGrimshaw> then i would need more than 14 :)
02:08:55 <Zuu> Nah, got the OTTDAU update up now, so lets go to bed and see what problems people have had with it tomorrow. :-D
02:15:18 <Eddi|zuHause> i'm not entirely sure if the person that named the program "OTTDAU" realized what "DAU" actually means [in german] :p
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02:27:57 <JakeGrimshaw> my scenario has been released by the way
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04:54:44 <roboboy> Dan nice toyland sprites in the OpenGFX thread
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08:59:45 <blathijs_> DaleStan: It's just some extra files I have to clean up in building the Debian opengfx package, but it's not really a big deal now I understand what happens :-)
09:39:21 <woldemar> actually, it's already am there
09:40:09 <dih> i mean - it's am here too, but not 'already'
09:40:18 <dih> it has been now for nearly 11 hours
09:40:26 * woldemar looks at the window (physical window)
09:40:56 <woldemar> anyway morning was good :)
09:43:35 *** blathijs_ is now known as blathijs
09:43:42 * woldemar is always confused with that
09:47:21 <cyclo> Good Morning, Buenos Dias, Buond!
09:50:23 <cyclo> Use different trains with different speeds, how can I do using 3 tracks to allow the overtaking?
09:50:29 <cyclo> sorry for the bad english!
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09:53:10 <woldemar> cyclo: you-re not alone with not-so-good-language
09:53:44 <cyclo> i have 2 or more questions
09:53:55 <woldemar> cyclo: i had built such combination of railways, but haven't screenshot/schema to show you right now
09:54:13 <woldemar> guess you searched wiki?
09:54:25 <cyclo> but i can't find a solution
09:54:45 <cyclo> only solution is using 4 tracks
09:55:06 <woldemar> what do you mean with overtracking?
09:55:35 <cyclo> the train fastest pass the slowest
09:55:41 <woldemar> one slow train goes, and another fast train can pass slow one and arrive first?
09:56:10 <cyclo> hold i take a screenshot
09:56:11 <woldemar> i did that with two railways
09:57:13 <woldemar> also my internet is awesomely limited
09:57:49 <woldemar> as i remember: i made two parallel railways with one swquare distance between them
09:58:26 <cyclo> ok i need 2 railways, one for way
09:58:32 <woldemar> then made small rails 1 to 2 and 2 to 1
09:59:06 <woldemar> then i may suggest only 4-way solution
09:59:29 <woldemar> i somehow thought you are talking about one-way rails
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10:02:36 <woldemar> maybe new way-signals may help to build such track
10:04:19 <cyclo> way signal? i was thinking about path signal in middle railways
10:04:53 <cyclo> what do you think about?
10:07:44 <woldemar> i could try this at home this evening)
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10:11:11 <woldemar> but i did most of the work
10:11:22 <woldemar> now just watching how system works
10:11:47 <woldemar> if i did not made much bugs - then i even can leave earlier
10:11:57 <woldemar> if did - have to fix immediately
10:14:47 <peter1138> bleh, how the fuck does mousekeys get enabled every day?
10:15:46 <cyclo> ok i do a circuit to test it :D
10:25:09 <cyclo> some months ago i saw a speed signal patch
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10:30:31 <dih> cyclo: tt-forums.net <- search!
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10:43:33 <enr1x> could anyone help me out a bit, please? i have no idea what signal to put in a rairoad i have in a small network i have set up. i have a screenshot in http://enricus.info, in its index you'll find a png called "cadaques transport..."
10:44:31 <enr1x> i want to set up a train going from torrentfosc mines to cadaques heights, and then to collbato woods, without interfering with the other train (circular line)
10:49:24 <SpComb^> enr1x: only use one-way signals on the shared track
10:52:42 <enr1x> SpComb^: thanks for the reply :). One before the beginning of the shared track, and the next one around the middle of the circular track?
10:53:38 <SpComb^> whatever you need, point being that two trains can't meet head-on along a single stretch of track
10:54:52 <enr1x> so one before each station would suffice, right?
10:56:43 <SpComb^> whatever you want for capacity
10:56:50 <SpComb^> you could put one on each tile
10:56:57 <SpComb^> or something more reasonable
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11:02:59 <enr1x> i am trying with one before each station, with good results
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11:04:06 <SpComb^> then you can put two-way signals on those pieces of track with only one train, if it needs to go in both directions
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11:04:38 <SpComb^> for block signals; it's also possible to do it with path signals, but then the placement needs to be slightly different
11:06:38 <SpComb^> (one two-way signal per track, at the point where it joins the others)
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11:11:36 <Eddi|zuHause> yeah, something went wrong there...
11:12:11 <SpComb^> and very long signal blocks
11:12:26 <Eddi|zuHause> it only works with long signal blocks
11:13:09 <Eddi|zuHause> if the signal blocks are too short, the overtaking train may get stuck against an opposite train
11:13:28 <Eddi|zuHause> you can only put two signal blocks between two switching places
11:13:50 <SpComb^> I see the two blocks, but too short?
11:14:05 <SpComb^> but myes, they have to be suitably long for the overtaking to work sensibly
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11:56:32 <DaleStan> blathijs: Is your HOME properly set? It's supposed to try to create $HOME/.renum before ./.renum.
11:58:31 <Rubidium> DaleStan: if I recall correctly HOME isn't set in Debian's autobuilders (i.e. Debian's compile farm)
11:58:56 <Rubidium> DaleStan: and writing to HOME is kinda not-done in case of Debian's autobuilders anyway
11:59:30 <Rubidium> though this probably holds also for other 'build farms'
12:02:47 <Ammler> a system wide data share would be nice, which get overridden from user data.
12:03:24 <Ammler> (but that requires writing data with make)
12:05:02 <Ammler> so you could system data without updating renum
12:09:38 <Ammler> (a first location beside $HOME and .)
12:10:53 <Rubidium> Ammler: why should it create the files in the first place if in 99% of the time you're not going to change them?
12:11:32 <Rubidium> I'd say just add a command line parameter to create the files if you want to, read them if they exist and otherwise don't create them
12:11:46 <Ammler> also there is already possible to create the data in custom directory with -D
12:12:37 <Ammler> but it might be needed to compile the system data share in, as not every distro might use same location
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12:51:00 <Gorillagram> good morning DanMacK
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12:51:21 * Pikka wonders what happens if you divide by 0 in an action 2 chain...
12:53:19 <LadyHawk> error, error, does not compute
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12:54:26 <Pikka> I can just add one to the divisor to stop it happening, but I'll experiment first :P
12:57:06 <andythenorth> Pikka: any result?
12:57:32 <Pikka> not a lot happened, andy
12:58:05 <Pikka> that would be because I was using the wrong vehicle >_>;
13:01:17 <Yexo> Pikka: if the divisor is 0 then openttd will just return last_value
13:03:12 <planetmaker> Pikka, do you mind if I add your sprite templates for the vehicles to OpenGFX?
13:03:57 <planetmaker> Vehicles and trains there are currently a mess wrt alignment. And doing it properly would probably be easy by using your templates :-)
13:04:17 <planetmaker> hello dih & Yexo, too :-)
13:04:39 <Pikka> planetmaker: I don't mind at all, that's what they're there for. they only work for trains afaia though.
13:04:55 <planetmaker> well, that's where I have most problems with now :-)
13:06:01 * roboboy tried drawing a haybail today and it sucked ):
13:06:36 <planetmaker> thanks, Pikka :-)
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13:12:15 <Yexo> TrueBrain: I'm trying to commit to an noai svn repository but I get: svn: Server sent unexpected return value (502 Bad Gateway) in response to COPY request for '/svn/lib-common/!svn/bc/5/trunk'
13:12:34 <Yexo> I do remember I had the same problems a long time ago but I can't remember nor find the fix
13:18:02 <TrueBrain> Yexo: I have a nice patch for vhost support in SVN
13:18:11 <TrueBrain> just never go to it to apply that on the NoAI stuff
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13:28:04 <dih> now that is getting interesting :-)
13:28:13 <TrueBrain> the patch is a few years old
13:28:22 <TrueBrain> subversion refuses to support it for unknown reasons
13:28:29 <TrueBrain> all required data is send to the server ..
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13:36:37 <blathijs> TrueBrain: In the svn:// protocol? Or the http:// protocol?
13:37:26 <TrueBrain> we have been running it on opendune.org/libemu.org for a while now
13:46:33 <glx> nice my client doesn't convert the : / / to emotes for http:// but it does for svn: / /
13:47:35 <Eddi|zuHause> you can configure the smilies somewhere
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13:56:56 <peter1138> but then it's irssi
14:17:53 <jordi> bwahaha! openttd is on its way to be moved from non-free to main in Debian
14:18:05 <jordi> blathijs: opengfx uploaded now
14:18:11 <jordi> see you on Sunday probably
14:21:19 <fonsinchen> Let's hope that no one tells them how OpenTTD originally came to be ...
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14:34:42 <blathijs> fonsinchen: That discussion has already been done, and it's in contrib right now (meaning its free itself, but depends on non-free stuff)
14:37:00 <Ammler> blathijs: how do you handle the sound? Add nosound?
14:38:06 <Ammler> on the other side, debian main repo isn't useable alone anyway...
14:38:06 <blathijs> Ammler: nosound is included with openttd
14:38:12 <blathijs> Ammler: And opensfx is in non-free
14:38:24 <blathijs> Eh? Is KDE not in main?
14:38:47 <blathijs> Dunno, I prefer not to touch either KDE or GNOME :-)
14:38:53 <blathijs> But why wouldn't it be?
14:38:56 <Ammler> just someone told, he can't build for KDE because of that.
14:40:30 <blathijs> According to packages.debian.org, the kde packages are in main
14:41:32 <Ammler> "There is no support for Debian, since the OBS has only Debian releases and none of those is capable of building KDE4 apps."
14:42:48 <Ammler> maybe a release is not like main repo?
14:43:50 <Rhamphoryncus> why is opensfx in non-free?
14:44:24 <Ammler> because of the CC license
14:44:50 <Ammler> the "source" isn't free
14:45:23 <blathijs> More specifically, because of the CC _sampling plus_ license, which is very limiting
14:45:32 <blathijs> Some of the CC license are ok for Debian
14:46:27 <blathijs> Ammler: I think OBS refers to the OpenSuSe Build Service there? If so, I don't understand the sentence :-)
14:46:53 <blathijs> Or perhaps that's saying it only has stable releases
14:47:02 <blathijs> which can't built _current_ KDE4 apps or something
14:47:05 <Ammler> you can build debian apps on obs too
14:47:30 <Ammler> the obs became something like default build farm for KDE4
14:48:26 <Ammler> there are also some rumor, they add windows and mac :-)
14:54:36 <fonsinchen> BTW: I'm just profiling openttd and those consistency checks for cargolists in openttd.cpp around lines 1180 to 1200 take about 5% of the CPU time.
14:54:48 <fonsinchen> Maybe there should be an option to switch them off.
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15:20:24 <Eddi|zuHause> maybe we should make a dictionary-ban on all girl's names :p
15:20:58 <planetmaker> I doubt that Laurenn is a valid name
15:21:25 <Ammler> but why not add a "content"filter
15:21:54 <Eddi|zuHause> no, but the prefix is, planetmaker...
15:22:39 <glx> arg they changed the message
15:23:42 <Eddi|zuHause> yeah, all people posting jpegs should be banned anyway :p
15:24:23 <Ammler> specially, if the jpg is directory
15:24:27 <planetmaker> and then argue with joseph maria why he gets banned ;-)
15:27:34 <glx> let's try .jpg/ do my * big
15:29:30 <planetmaker> look, ./jpg/ do my images suck big time?
15:29:41 <dih> anyone here from bulgaria?
15:29:44 <planetmaker> look, .jpg/ do my images suck big time?
15:30:25 <planetmaker> oh, I expected a ban ;-)
15:30:50 <glx> [16:29:53] <DorpsGek> The operation succeeded.
15:31:00 <glx> but somehow it failed it seems
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15:31:16 <planetmaker> @ban maybe instead of @kban ?
15:31:27 <glx> [16:29:53] [PRIVMSG >>> DorpsGek]: ban add #openttd planetmaker!*@*
15:31:50 <glx> @ban add #openttd planetmaker!*@*
15:31:50 <DorpsGek> glx: The operation succeeded.
15:31:53 <planetmaker> he :-P So only banned, thus I cannot return ;-)
15:32:05 <planetmaker> you want to use kban
15:32:25 <glx> kban fails if the user is not connected
15:32:42 <glx> and the spambot tends to hit and run
15:33:00 <planetmaker> you could unban me though ;-)
15:33:05 <dih> yeah - that makes a ban very clever :-P
15:33:21 <glx> @ban add #openttd "planetmaker!*@*"
15:33:21 <DorpsGek> glx: The operation succeeded.
15:33:41 <dih> planetmaker is not in the banlist mentioned with /ban
15:33:56 <dih> perhaps DorpsGek has a own banlist?
15:34:22 <planetmaker> let's see whether I can return.
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15:34:46 <glx> if the ban worked you could not talk :)
15:34:55 <planetmaker> :-) laber rharbarber
15:35:08 <DorpsGek> glx: The operation succeeded.
15:35:19 <glx> the plugin is broken I'd say
15:35:35 <Eddi|zuHause> dih: active ban also prevents speaking like +q
15:35:50 *** glx sets mode: +b planetmaker!*@*
15:35:50 <Eddi|zuHause> but DorpsGek doesn't actually set the ban
15:36:01 <glx> try saying something now :)
15:36:14 <Eddi|zuHause> dih: unless the person also has voice or higher
15:36:24 <dih> ah - that would have been it then
15:36:31 *** glx sets mode: -b planetmaker!*@*
15:39:00 <glx> oh it has it's own ban list indeed
15:39:05 <DorpsGek> glx: "planetmaker!*@*" (never expires) and "planetmaker!~pm@vs241204.vserver.de" (never expires)
15:39:55 <dih> might be similar to @ignore
15:40:38 <dih> so in theory you would need Dorpsgeck to talk to chanserv
15:40:43 <Ammler> would be nice to have something, which automatically bans on every channel the bot is in
15:41:01 <dih> so the @say <user> <message>
15:41:02 <Ammler> something like @globalban :-)
15:41:46 *** DorpsGek sets mode: +b planetmaker!*@*
15:42:05 *** DorpsGek sets mode: -b planetmaker!*@*
15:43:17 <enr1x> oh, can anyone give me a tip to carry goods? i have goods from oil refineries and saw mills. Where do I have to carry them? to several lorry stations in the centre of the city?
15:43:33 <planetmaker> look, .jpg/ do my photos suck big time?
15:43:33 *** DorpsGek sets mode: +b planetmaker!*@*
15:43:34 <glx> to a town big enough to accept them
15:43:50 *** DorpsGek sets mode: -b planetmaker!*@*
15:44:00 <dih> planetmaker: if you type that in backwards, it might unban you
15:44:32 <glx> my client won't get it ;)
15:50:46 *** DorpsGek sets mode: +vv dih planetmaker
15:50:56 *** DorpsGek sets mode: -vv dih planetmaker
15:51:06 <glx> ok my !mode command seems to work
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16:30:12 <OwenS> orudge: "University of St Andrews F300 20-Sep-2010 Unsuccessful" :-(
16:47:37 <peter1138> you'll have to go somewhere shitty instead
16:47:49 <peter1138> like camford or oxbridge
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16:50:15 <Eddi|zuHause> why does that have to be so complicated?
16:50:52 <Eddi|zuHause> here in germany i just went to the immatriculation office and said "hey, here i am, i want to study"
16:51:34 <OwenS> Eddi|zuHause: Here you go to UCAS and say "I want to go to *these* universities"
16:52:26 <Eddi|zuHause> only for very special courses like medicine or hopelessly overrun courses like economics you have to actually apply...
16:52:50 <OwenS> Eddi|zuHause: So how do you choose whiich universities you want to go to? ;-)
16:52:53 <Eddi|zuHause> "numerus clausus" it's called
16:54:44 <OwenS> Eddi|zuHause: And how does it work? ;-)
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16:56:06 <Eddi|zuHause> OwenS: like i said, for ordinary courses you just enlist at the university you want... for the "numerus clausus" courses you apply at the ZVS and they assign a university to you
16:56:32 <andythenorth> cb flags, how do I calculate the value again?
16:56:53 <OwenS> Eddi|zuHause: So universities have no choice of students?
16:56:54 <Eddi|zuHause> they use some kind of key based on your schoolgrades and waiting time
16:57:20 <Eddi|zuHause> no, why would the university care?
16:57:33 <OwenS> Eddi|zuHause: Because the university wants the best students
16:57:44 <Eddi|zuHause> that's not how it works ;)
16:58:03 <OwenS> Well, in the UK it is ;-)
16:58:48 <planetmaker> andy: just add it up
16:59:09 <OwenS> Eddi|zuHause: Also, if you did that in the UK, Oxbridge would get ~95% of the enrollments
16:59:52 * andythenorth is feeling a lack of sleep :|
17:00:04 <Eddi|zuHause> well, that's the thing, in decentralised germany, no university is that much different than the others
17:00:07 * planetmaker hugs andythenorth
17:00:38 <OwenS> Eddi|zuHause: That doesn't really work when some are ~800 years old...
17:00:55 <Eddi|zuHause> why? my university is 500 years old...
17:01:29 <OwenS> Yes, but we have ~5 which are 500 years old (And the best of those have a positive multiplier effect going on) and the rest are ~50...
17:02:37 <OwenS> They all get the same money per student, and pretty much the same support from the government, but the best remain the best
17:04:03 <Eddi|zuHause> the difference might be that until a few years ago, universities were not allowed to collect enrollment fees from students
17:04:38 <OwenS> Here they weren't either. Now, they all collect the maximum, which tends to get paid for by student loan or grant
17:05:16 <OwenS> The major exception is that there is no limitation on what they can charge non-EU students. So they charge lots
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17:06:01 <Ammler> Yexo: didn't you fix the sorting of newgrfs?
17:06:14 <Ammler> how does it sort, if the name is the same?
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17:32:45 <andythenorth> don't write nfo if you didn't get any sleep :[
17:36:18 <dih> you did not get enough sleep :-P
17:37:06 <Zuu> Hehe, I got okay with sleep but got pain in my neck instead. :-p
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17:40:29 <enr1x> hey guys i have a problem: my passangers won't leave the train: they come from a transfer station, they go to the city, but will stay in the train :P
17:41:00 <Zuu> Vanilia OpenTTD or CargoDist?
17:41:41 <Zuu> What orders have you given for the city railway station?
17:42:06 <Zuu> Does the railway station accept passengers?
17:43:25 <dih> hehehe - it's prbably just a waypoint :-D
17:43:42 <enr1x> Zuu: Vanilla OpenTTD, the orders are the default
17:43:52 <enr1x> i don't know, they don't pay double fare :)
17:44:17 <enr1x> it's called Sant Julia $whatever $date
17:44:54 <enr1x> i want to unload the passengers from the exchange station, then unload the goods, and load the passengers to bring them to the exchange station
17:45:36 <Eddi|zuHause> enr1x: you can't transfer people two ways
17:46:03 <Zuu> Take a look on what the wiki says about transfer systems.
17:46:08 <Eddi|zuHause> enr1x: you will make people go back where they came from, and of course they won't unload there
17:46:28 <Zuu> It is quite good at outlining what is possible and what is not.
17:46:41 <Eddi|zuHause> enr1x: the only thing that makes sense is "transfer and no loading"
17:46:51 <Zuu> IIRC there is both the page about transfer orders and another page about feeder systems.
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17:51:31 <Eddi|zuHause> unless you make two transfer stations
17:52:06 <Zuu> one for passengers in one direction and the other for passengers in the other direction.
17:52:07 <enr1x> Eddi|zuHause: or two different trains?
17:52:23 <Eddi|zuHause> no, that won't work either
17:52:30 <Eddi|zuHause> the station is the problem, not the train
17:52:40 <Zuu> Two different trains wil not make sure that the passengers go back again to their source.
17:53:07 <Zuu> Its like an airport, dont mix passengers of differnt types.
17:53:24 <enr1x> but then why the people crowd the stations if the train won't accept them?
17:54:41 <Eddi|zuHause> you got that backwards. the people pile up at the station because the train is already full
17:54:42 <frosch123> andythenorth: 7C \dx01 <- no \dx there
17:55:17 * OwenS wonders if his langauge's sqrt should return a Complex if you root a negative :p
17:55:31 <Eddi|zuHause> the train visits the station, so the rating is ok, but they can't leave the station by train, so they wait
17:56:02 <enr1x> Eddi|zuHause: ok, what i am doing now is get the people from the southernmost station, transfer them in the middle, and unloading them at the northernmost, now i should take that 1.3K+ people somewhere, right?
17:56:36 <enr1x> the 1.3K+ people are the ones who pile up after seeing the beautiful train leave without them
17:56:46 <Zuu> OwenS: Reminds me of a traffic simulation lab when we got complex value results for the densities of the different sections of the highway.
17:57:05 <OwenS> Zuu: lol. TBH, getting a Complex is probably less unexpected than getting a NaN
17:57:12 <Eddi|zuHause> enr1x: my suggestion is: don't transfer the passengers at all, or try cargodist (find it in the forum)
17:57:58 <Zuu> Or take a look at PAXLink for an example when transfering could be worked in current OpenTTD.
17:58:00 <enr1x> or, perhaps better, then, is with a single train do everything?
17:58:55 <Zuu> In most cases a single train is better, much easier to manage your transport system with direct trains.
17:59:18 <enr1x> i will try without PAXlink, then i might even increase my profits :)
18:00:25 <OwenS> Zuu: Hmm. Perhaps I should rename "Float" to "Real", so I have the types Integer, Real and Complex :p
18:00:46 <Zuu> Sounds Forthan but should be okay.
18:01:14 <Zuu> Not sure if Forthan had Complex, but IIRC their floats are named real.
18:01:15 <OwenS> As it's a dynamically tyepd scripting language, you'll probably only rarely do something like "if a isa Real" :P
18:01:17 <enr1x> Zuu: not, later i might try PAXLink
18:01:28 <enr1x> that will improve the people handling, right?
18:02:18 <Zuu> PAXLink is an AI which will be a competetor in your games. You can use it as inspiration for feeder systems if you like.
18:02:58 <Zuu> You find it on BaNaNaS aka the content download button/window in OpenTTD.
18:05:57 <enr1x> Alberth: will take a look at it
18:06:03 <enr1x> thank you everybody for the great help!
18:12:32 <enr1x> Alberth: that's exactly what i needed to read
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18:18:03 <fonsinchen> You might want to try cargodist. The problem you have is the reason why I started it.
18:23:57 <enr1x> fonsinchen: i'll take a look at it, but i should improve my openttd skills first, i just started playing with it three days ago and love it so far
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18:32:56 <enr1x> i have another question: how should i deal with more than eight hundred people waiting at a station if i have like seven buses doing a circular line?
18:34:35 <Eddi|zuHause> gnah... rubidium was a few seconds faster...
18:35:24 <andythenorth> frosch123: thanks
18:35:44 <Zuu> more buses, better drop/pickup station with enhanced capacity.
18:36:48 <Zuu> Or if it is in a feeder system you can adopt other parts of the chain to get a balanced system.
18:38:38 <Eddi|zuHause> in a recent game i had like 30 trams on one line to get all the passengers transported
18:45:36 <CIA-6> OpenTTD: translators * r19390 /trunk/src/lang/ (bulgarian.txt portuguese.txt spanish.txt):
18:45:36 <CIA-6> OpenTTD: -Update from WebTranslator v3.0:
18:45:36 <CIA-6> OpenTTD: bulgarian - 53 changes by yxomo
18:45:36 <CIA-6> OpenTTD: portuguese - 1 changes by JayCity
18:45:36 <CIA-6> OpenTTD: spanish - 1 changes by Terkhen
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19:10:43 <Ammler> Eddi|zuHause: germanrv?
19:11:10 <Eddi|zuHause> Ammler: no, egrvts in that case
19:11:39 <Ammler> germanrv cap seems quite low to me
19:12:00 <Ammler> specially cargo, dunno about pax anymore
19:13:59 <Eddi|zuHause> yeah, i said that, but Uwe isn't listening to me...
19:16:30 <Eddi|zuHause> passengers are ok, i think
19:16:36 <Rubidium> nice job jordi :) Now lets hope that ftp-master doesn't complain about grfcodec not being in the repository for opengfx
19:16:38 <Eddi|zuHause> at least larger than trains :)
19:17:52 <Ammler> yeah, I complained in the German forums about already too. Hmm, so it needs some more to get him to rise it ;-)
19:18:39 <CIA-6> OpenTTD: rubidium * r19391 /trunk/src/gamelog.cpp: -Fix (r19255): shuffling around GRFIdentifier in GRFConfig caused gamelog to log the wrong data which could cause crashes later on when that data is queried
19:23:48 <OwenS> Grr. How can I be spending 11.4% of CPU time in push()? And even more impressive, 6.74% in st (Which should be little more than x[size - idx - 1] ...)
19:26:14 <blathijs> Rubidium: That shouldn't be a problem, the buildd architecture should take care of that (something with status BD-uninstallable or something)
19:26:29 <blathijs> Rubidium: Also, grfcodec has been uploaded again, so that shouldn't take so long this time
19:27:51 <Rubidium> blathijs: I know that, just thinking about the hypothetical case where the person reviewing it sees grfcodec and can't find it in the repository :)
19:28:06 <Rubidium> but I reckon that's quite a common use case
19:30:43 <blathijs> Rubidium: I hope they can get to it within the next couple of days, so I can add the dependencies to RC3, though
19:38:12 <CIA-6> OpenTTD: terkhen * r19392 /trunk/src/ (4 files in 2 dirs): -Codechange: Increase the maximum size of a TileArea.
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19:49:57 * andythenorth could do with a way to force industries to update their varaction 2 chains when reloading a grf :(
19:52:49 <Eddi|zuHause> what do you mean "update"?
19:54:06 <andythenorth> when testing industry code, if the varaction 2 chain is changed, it's necessary to start a new game to test the chain. That is a right pain
19:54:40 <andythenorth> ditto action 0 props
19:55:09 <andythenorth> if anyone can tell me I'm *definitely* wrong, they'd deserve some kind of medal
19:55:32 <andythenorth> currently I'm wasting so much time :(
19:55:40 <SmatZ> you are wrong, andythenorth
19:56:19 <andythenorth> SmatZ: a year of coding FIRS makes me disagree with you :P
19:56:26 <Eddi|zuHause> varaction 2 chains are not stored in the savegame, they have to be rerun when the GRF is loaded
19:56:40 <andythenorth> what about action 0 props?
19:56:55 <Eddi|zuHause> the majority of those are probably stored
19:57:58 <Eddi|zuHause> well, depends on the feature, i believe
19:58:27 <Eddi|zuHause> many engine properties like capacities are stored in the vehicle
19:58:50 <peter1138> yeah, capacity is variable
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20:30:14 <andythenorth> "Production may increase if engineering supplies are delivered monthly."
20:30:21 <andythenorth> What does that mean to you guys?
20:30:55 <Alberth> pretty much what it says
20:31:05 <Alberth> anything particular you are worried about?
20:31:27 <Terkhen> there is a chance of a production increase if engineering supplies are delivered, but I don't know what will happen if I don't deliver them
20:31:46 <andythenorth> just trying to find the shortest words
20:32:41 <Alberth> just 'delivered' would be enough I think (ie remove 'monthly')
20:32:45 <Rubidium> now reading the non-obvious: production may increase if engineering supplies are not delivered; it only tells a -> b, not ~a -> ~b
20:33:14 <andythenorth> Rubidium: yes quite right
20:33:48 <Rubidium> "Steady supply of engineering supplies needed to improve production"
20:36:46 <Eddi|zuHause> could leave out "Steady"
20:37:00 <Eddi|zuHause> and even "supply of"
20:38:10 <andythenorth> "Engineering supplies may increase production"
20:38:17 <andythenorth> is about as short as I can make it I reckon :)
20:38:45 <andythenorth> the amount needed is at least 1 crate per month (for a 1 in 4 chance of an increase)
20:38:56 <andythenorth> I could show the amount delivered, but does it matter?
20:40:06 <Eddi|zuHause> if it has a stockpile limit, you can say "Stored: 10 (max 15)" or something
20:40:16 <frosch123> it was added for snowy and deserty towns because users asked annoyingly :)
20:40:17 <andythenorth> I've removed the stockpile limits :)
20:40:27 <andythenorth> I do like it being in desert towns
20:41:06 <Eddi|zuHause> but if you have a stockpile, you can have it run out slowly, like processing 1 item per month
20:41:14 <Eddi|zuHause> or 8 items per month
20:41:34 <Eddi|zuHause> then you can see how long it takes to run out
20:41:47 <andythenorth> Eddi|zuHause: I have that code more or less....but it kind of doesn't work in gameplay. Will take too long to explain!
20:41:55 <andythenorth> I am trying a new variation
20:42:32 <Eddi|zuHause> spreading engineering supplies (or vehicles in ECS) might be easier with cargodist
20:43:48 <andythenorth> I find it an interesting cargo because (A) over time, it's a guaranteed way to boost primary production (B) it needs a *lot* of small deliveries
20:45:49 <Eddi|zuHause> so you have to enforce a delivery every month now, can't stockpile it
20:46:05 <andythenorth> the stockpile would clear every month anyway
20:46:31 <frosch123> if i understood ecs correctly it stockpiles all vehicles, the stockpiled amount improves production (all vehicles are in use), and a certain percentage of them breaks down every month
20:47:07 <Eddi|zuHause> that sounds like too much micromanagement
20:47:13 <frosch123> so the production boost decreases exponentially :p
20:47:36 <andythenorth> in the new FIRS code I just check at the end of each month whether any engineering supplies were delivered that month. If 'yes', then it's 1 in 4 chance of a boost
20:47:45 <Eddi|zuHause> every time i try ECS, it sounds way too overengineered
20:48:39 <andythenorth> lets see if I broke my lovely save game :|
20:49:55 <George> frosch123: Not correct. If there is at least 1 vehicle waiting, production is x2. Periodicaly (depends on current production level), amount of vehicles decreases (it is broken ;)
20:50:37 <George> stockpile is limited - 1000-2000 vehicles depending on industry
20:50:45 <andythenorth> George: cunning ;)
20:50:54 <George> Yes, it is a micromanagement
20:52:11 <George> but it makes a player to think about his chains :roll:
20:52:48 <George> Anyway, you can not use any vehicles, main chains would work as well
20:53:08 <George> Vehicles only increase production
20:53:20 <George> Fertilisers are not the same
20:55:24 <Jolteon> OpenTTD has a sense of humour
20:55:33 <George> but the concept is the same
20:55:39 <Jolteon> built the start of a network, left it for some years, come back, and it's placed a factory at the end of the trains tracks
20:55:43 <Jolteon> now I need to build around it
21:00:43 * andythenorth has a suggestion for '2.0'
21:00:54 <andythenorth> smoke for RVs and ships :P
21:05:16 <Jolteon> Ships & RVs generally don't make much smoke.
21:05:25 <Jolteon> Well, ships sometimes give off alot of steam.
21:05:35 <Jolteon> but RVs only give off steam/smoke if their engine is about to give in.
21:06:21 <andythenorth> Jolteon: umm. no in both cases
21:06:41 <Jolteon> Umm, yes in both cases.
21:06:59 <Jolteon> If your vehicle is giving off a noticable amount of smoke, you need to get it to a mechanic, fast.
21:07:22 <andythenorth> Jolteon: if your steam ship is*not* giving off much smoke, you need to get some fuel in it quick ;)
21:07:22 <Jolteon> Vehicles should only produce steam, and it should only be largely noticable on cold mornings.
21:07:40 <Jolteon> If it produces smoke, you're about to blow up your engine.
21:09:20 <Jolteon> and a very old looking one.
21:09:41 <Jolteon> and the other is a digger.
21:09:50 <Jolteon> Both of which have powerful engines so do.
21:09:56 <Jolteon> You did not specify large heavy operating machines
21:10:02 <Jolteon> Therefore I presumed you meant buses and such.
21:12:49 <CIA-6> OpenTTD: rubidium * r19393 /branches/1.0/src/ (13 files in 5 dirs): (log message trimmed)
21:12:49 <CIA-6> OpenTTD: [1.0] -Backport from trunk:
21:12:49 <CIA-6> OpenTTD: - Fix: One could not level the whole map anymore at once (r19392)
21:12:49 <CIA-6> OpenTTD: - Fix: Only show the 'No AIs available' error message when explicitly changing the number of AI opponents [FS3676] (r19389)
21:12:49 <CIA-6> OpenTTD: - Fix: [NoAI] When reloading a savegame, an AI failing to compile could trigger
21:12:50 <CIA-6> OpenTTD: (trying) to read the not yet loaded information of another AI via the AI Debug
21:12:52 <CIA-6> OpenTTD: window and its "open with the most recently used AI" feature [FS#3666] (r19388)
21:21:30 <CIA-6> OpenTTD: rubidium * r19394 /trunk/bin/ (8 files in 2 dirs): -Update: base set translations for Afrikaans, Danish, Estonian, Greek, Romanian and Serbian.
21:22:09 <andythenorth> ha ha, my change to production boost works :)
21:25:24 <andythenorth> delivering monthly supplies to primary industry - makes small vehicles worthwhile :) Helicopters, small trucks, small planes etc
22:03:54 *** Nite_Owl has joined #openttd
22:07:19 <Nite_Owl> Already done in another channel
22:07:54 <Nite_Owl> my return Hello that is
22:13:00 *** vargadanis has joined #openttd
22:13:24 <vargadanis> OMG! I wouldn't have tought that openttd has such big community! O_o
22:13:30 * vargadanis is here for the first time
22:14:19 <vargadanis> soo... noobie questions.. how do I clear the tracks if a train accident happened? O_o
22:15:21 <vargadanis> should have tought of that
22:15:52 <vargadanis> one more... is there maybe some good description with examples on how the traffic lights on train tracks work and why? O_o kinda confused by them
22:16:52 <vargadanis> are you serious? O_o wow book on tracks for ttd
22:17:50 <vargadanis> ohh ehh.. not an actual book lol making a fool of myself here :)
22:17:51 <Nite_Owl> the OpenTTD wiki is also good
22:18:34 <Nite_Owl> and search for signals
22:20:01 <Nite_Owl> pay particular attention to 'path signals' as they are the most useful
22:22:28 <vargadanis> Nite_Owl, well I was kinda confused by the description on the wiki page...
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22:23:22 <Nite_Owl> experimentation works wonders
22:24:19 <Nite_Owl> start a game you never intend to really play out and just fiddle with signals and sending lots of trains through them
22:25:47 <Nite_Owl> the main thing with path signals is to remember to only place them were it is safe for a train to stop without blocking other trains
22:27:04 <vargadanis> i tend to cause mass blockades :)
22:27:48 <Nite_Owl> in other words never place them at the direct exit of a junction - always leave enough space for the train length to clear the junction
22:58:19 <vargadanis> is there maybe a higher resolution tile set for openttd? I think - but might be mistaken - 8bpp tiles by default, right?
22:58:41 <Yexo> 8bpp/32bpp has nothing to do with the resolution
22:58:58 <Yexo> there is a patch on the forum that adds 2 extra zoom-in levels
23:03:21 <vargadanis> is it than the color depth that is used in the game?
23:05:30 * dih is trying to query all servers in one go with OpenTTDLib :-P
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continue to next day ⏵
