IRC logs for #openttd on OFTC at 2010-03-10
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00:44:00 <Eddi|zuHause> ... we could ban "anna*"
00:44:16 <OwenS> The "Banz" is quite appropriate
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00:45:06 <OwenS> OK, does anyone know the correct reporting procedure for OFTC? :p
00:45:36 <OwenS> I kind of presumed that :p
00:46:30 *** Rubidium sets mode: +b AnnaBanz!*@*
00:59:17 <Rubidium> if you have to ask, then probably you have one :)
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02:15:04 <Starn> is it easier to ban by ip than with video games? example person has dyamic ip.. banned on a game. they can force ip change and log right back in. unless they are mac banned. is it the same with every thing else?
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03:31:47 <De_Ghosty> u can clone mac address
03:31:56 <De_Ghosty> it's even more spoofable
03:32:15 <De_Ghosty> i mean change mac add*
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04:07:57 <Starn> yea i know how to mac spoof. i most gamers i know though do not. so most games i play online uses ip and mac bans.
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04:11:17 <SirSquidness> no matter how you ban, people will circumvent
04:12:20 <SirSquidness> if banning by mac, or othdr methoe, became tge standard way, those gamers would learn how to get around i
04:12:41 <Starn> i am looking for an better way of banning people one that is hard to work around. with out going to such manners of ccontacting their ISP and reporting them for illegal activitys...
04:13:01 <Starn> it is the standard way in most FPS's
04:13:37 <SirSquidness> an ISP probably youldn@t care about romeone hacking in game
04:14:12 <Starn> nope they don't. normally but if those people are caught hacking into a server [website] they do take action
04:14:52 <PeterT> Instead of banning them, make your server harder so that can't cheat or do whatever you wanted to ban them for
04:15:17 <Starn> had my gaming profile hacked once.. reported it... they was takin into cusity by their local law enforcment due to breaking an internataniol treaty :)
04:15:19 <SirSquidness> prevention is is better than a cure
04:16:03 <Starn> its illegal to hack in games also but its not dealt with by law enforcment.
04:16:12 <PeterT> [23:14:42] <PeterT> Instead of banning them, make your server harder so that can't cheat or do whatever you wanted to ban them for
04:16:26 <Starn> and its hard to get better protection when modifying the game even for prectection is illegal..
04:17:01 <Starn> and punkbuster does not do its job. lol
04:18:00 <PeterT> he hasn't posted anything yet
04:18:12 <PeterT> Starn: Look at the post above, I basically told him what to do.
04:19:39 <PeterT> Anyway, good night all
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05:04:17 <Sacro> I dunno but your 'jpg' trips noscript
05:04:25 <Sacro> that seems a little suspect
05:04:37 <Sacro> <script type="text/javascript">
05:04:49 <Sacro> methinks your image creator isnt' saving correctly
05:04:58 <Sacro> also why not ust use a http redirect?
05:36:43 <Rhamphoryncus> Sacro: whole site is a redirect.. kinda silly
05:47:46 <Rubidium> DaleStan: seems doable, although it looks like the header for the file is completely new (i.e. version 1 does not have said header), right?
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06:29:18 <DDR> I just managed to crash two trains without telling them to "go, darn the signals". Is that a bug, or just reeeeaaaally bad planning?
06:39:15 <DDR> I found a bug, a train listed as heading to depot at 63km/h but stopped in depot. I can't reproduce, as saving/loading fixes it. I can't reproduce the first bug, either.
06:42:44 <DDR> Might have been paused, but I doubt it... :/
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06:53:05 <DDR> I expect I can't reproduce because I can't get the signals to convert right.
06:54:14 <DDR> Though, very tastefully done, if I do say so myself.
07:08:30 <peter1138> if you were converting signals then that can upset paths
07:09:01 <Wolf01> converting bridges does that too
07:12:40 <peter1138> Wolf01 -> bugs.openttd.org
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07:24:49 <Wolf01> I didn't attach a save, it's too easy to reproduce
07:31:30 <CIA-6> OpenTTD: peter1138 * r19378 /trunk/src/newgrf.cpp: -Codechange: Rename ReadExtended() to ReadExtendedByte()
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08:03:29 <Priski> btw why the new titlegame has not been added to the trunk?
08:09:11 <Zuu> Because it was never ment to be added to trunk
08:09:50 <Zuu> If you read more carefully you'll see that each new major release will have their own title game but trunk will keep the old title game.
08:10:44 <Zuu> The reason for keeping the old title game in trunk is that it is old and thus test the code for loading old save games.
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10:27:10 <Zuu> hehe, should say "do my boobs _still_ look small" to be more consistent with the ongoing anouncments.
10:27:39 <planetmaker> I banned *!*@63.223.127.* ;-)
10:27:56 <planetmaker> though of course not here...
10:28:06 <Starn> do my boobs look small [link to virus or malware or spyware] :P
10:28:36 <Starn> ugh... i need to live by my self.. freaking drunks >.<
10:29:54 <planetmaker> I gave myself the fun to actually look at it from a secured VM. The link (yesterday night) tells that they move to a new server due to the highly increased traffic :-D
10:31:35 <Starn> i am working on creating a new internet radio stream ^^ bored.. lol over 11k songs to add to this dj'ing software :(
10:32:02 <blathijs> planetmaker: But then it redirects to some adsite, not to the actual moved site...
10:32:19 <Zuu> Starn: Can't that be done by searching the directory tree?
10:32:41 <planetmaker> blathijs, by then I must have had closed the window again ;-)
10:32:53 <Starn> that is how its being done but the program is sorta slow.. last time i used it when i had 5k it took 5 - 8 mins
10:33:09 <blathijs> planetmaker: It's not an automatic redirect, but a link "Click here to redirect to the new site" or something
10:33:26 <Zuu> 5-8 mins of drinking coffe doesn't sound that bed.
10:33:36 <planetmaker> but that doesn't make the spam efficient, does it?
10:34:03 <Starn> i bet i could make better spam than them
10:34:26 <blathijs> planetmaker: Perhaps it sets the viewers state of mind to expect some actual content? :-)
10:35:13 <blathijs> planetmaker: Or perhaps the site redirected to is some advertising site that pays people for incoming links?
10:36:00 <Starn> i would probably create an fake site saying you must be 18 or older to entire and have a link to an adspace [to get money] labeled as yes 18 or older and another one exact same adspace with it labeled not 18 or older. or some bs like that.
10:36:35 <planetmaker> maybe maybe. But then links advertised in the same sentence as 'boobs' should rise suspicion regardless of the link's name.
10:38:23 <Starn> just started the adding procceses yay
10:39:33 <Starn> i need software as good as this but supports ogg and flac and mp4 and apple lossless..... lol i am fairly sad itunes does not support flac....
10:39:46 <Starn> gah my mind wonders to fast.
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10:42:52 <blathijs> Hmm, the boobs link now redirects to blog about renting houses :-S
10:43:07 <blathijs> Directly, so no more "Moving to new server" page
10:43:43 <Starn> maybe they are spying on us? ;)
10:43:56 <Doorslammer> Ironic really, as I consider my estate agent to be a right tit
10:44:08 <Starn> 6k songs added to library yay still going to o.o
10:44:37 <blathijs> I was considering contacting the people from holidaylettings.co.uk to prevent the spammer from getting money, but never mind then :-)
10:45:50 <Starn> if they are american and use ATT i think its a breach of contract to spam so reporting them to that ISP would have their internet shutdown :D
10:46:34 <Starn> not 100% on that one though i would have to re read my terms of use and crap...
10:46:36 <blathijs> Starn: I don't expect that the spammer actually connected to IRC from his own address, though
10:46:47 <blathijs> It's probably a hacked machine
10:47:08 <Starn> it can be traced over time sometimes.
10:48:30 <Starn> is there an better stream server than shoutcast?
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10:51:25 <Starn> should i stick with what i know best shoutcast? or look for something better?
10:53:41 <peter1138> what are you streaming?
10:53:54 <Starn> music.. not videos... i repeat not videos.
10:54:45 <Starn> i have about 10k songs i can stream that are on my external hd.. not even including the ones on my internal harddrive.
10:55:11 <Starn> the software i have for dj'ing can have to stream to a server at low bit rates and sound as good as 128...
10:55:34 <peter1138> so it still sounds shit?
10:55:56 <Starn> lol sounds as good as the broadband servers
10:56:30 <Starn> which i am thinking about streaming at 64 or 128. depends on how much demand i get.
10:56:59 <Starn> so it will sound as good as any shoutcast server out there except maybe the 320kb.
10:57:24 <Starn> the software i use cost $300 lol
10:57:32 <peter1138> you want icecast2 and ogg vorbos streaming
10:57:39 <peter1138> and it's all free, fool
10:57:54 <Starn> shoutcast is free also .. but i shall check out icecast2
10:58:15 <Starn> the dj'ing software that streams to the server is what cost 300
10:58:57 <peter1138> that's what i mean... why would you pay for djing software?
10:59:04 <Starn> i've used the try before you by idea.. [torrents] and liked the software ALOT
10:59:24 <Starn> and cuz it is better than using Winamp. with DSP or anyother player with DSP
10:59:44 <peter1138> oh, of course, a windows user
10:59:48 <Starn> the software also maintains a website. for requests
10:59:53 <Starn> oh i tried the linux ways
11:00:17 <peter1138> mind you, if it's still mp3, then 64 will sound like 64, etc
11:01:23 <Starn> yea it has ogg and other formates
11:01:25 <peter1138> sambc can do ogg vorbis though, so not all is lost
11:01:52 <Starn> and it supports icecast
11:02:16 <Starn> i tried a linux program kinda like sambc don't remember name but sheer amount of music i have crashed it
11:03:12 <Starn> i am wanting to try out the accplus v2 streaming encoders. claims they can deliver near cd quality at 48kb but i highly highly doubt this possible lol
11:04:21 <Starn> my biggest issue is i need better x64 support
11:05:49 <Starn> if you know of any fully free ways that preforms remotely as well and is remotely as easy to use please let me know.
11:06:16 <peter1138> it's just a streamer, heh
11:06:27 <peter1138> you have to turn off all the processing to make it not sound like arse
11:06:29 <Starn> with automatic DJ and requests.
11:06:48 <OwenS`Phone> Starn: be sure to check out royalty costs. In the UK, for the music, it's about 75 a year for up to 10k listeners
11:06:49 <Starn> probably. it would go great for my other comp.
11:07:06 <Starn> i don't stream to UK users.
11:07:31 <Starn> North American users :\ like canada and US and Mexico.
11:16:37 <Starn> what is defualt port for ice cast peter1138?
11:17:20 <Starn> hmm should be working than... guess gotta open command prompt and make sure my router did not change my address
11:17:57 <Starn> it likes to switch me between 192.168.1.101 - 102 - 103
11:19:06 <Starn> does it use port 8000 for every thing? incomming traffic and out going?
11:25:39 <Eddi|zuHause> you can set up a fixed address
11:26:28 <Starn> my issue was live.ogg.m3u needed to be at end of adress not use to having to do that.. use to just entering my web addy and it starts playing
11:28:10 <Starn> trying out different encoders lol
11:29:04 <roboboy> wohoo got OpenGFX working under DOS
11:29:22 * Starn thinks about pouncing roboboy
11:32:22 <Starn> ogg does not sound to great at 64kb sounds like shhhh..
11:33:47 <peter1138> 128 or more is okay
11:33:59 <peter1138> a lot of people apparently put up with shit
11:34:17 <Starn> indeed i am one of them :D
11:34:49 <Starn> i need to do some math.. see about how many people are going to listen at one time and figure out what bitrate i need.
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11:36:54 <Starn> after 96kb there is no sound dif between aacplus and ogg.. so i am using ogg.
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11:37:31 <Starn> oh i got better idea! seeing how my internet can handle it i'll set up about 3 encoders and let the people whom are going to listen vote.
11:38:13 <Starn> ok.. i got aacplus v2 ogg vorbis now should i use legacy mp3 acm codec mp3pro or mp3 or wma? for 3rd
11:38:42 <Starn> for my ears ogg is winner but. i shall let the people decide lol between 3 chosen ones.
11:40:41 <peter1138> as for royalty costs, just don't stream commercial music, heh
11:41:30 <Rubidium> peter1138: even then those RIAA-alike people will sue you as you didn't pay for playing the music
11:41:42 <fonsinchen> I think the various container classes should be put in one place. ATM SmallVector and SmallMap are in src/core while BinaryHeap, Array, FIxedSizeArray and HashTable are in src/misc
11:41:57 <Starn> RIAA are not even an athurity figure...
11:42:03 <fonsinchen> I don't really see a compelling reason for that.
11:42:14 <Starn> they are in no relation to goverment or any law enforcment
11:42:25 <Starn> they just have alot of money which apparently = power...
11:42:30 <peter1138> Rubidium, they can try :)
11:42:51 <Starn> i dare them to sue me for streaming music i've writtin
11:43:32 <Starn> my foot be so far up their --- they would wish they did not meet me.
11:43:46 <Starn> i would show them how i own the copyright to all my files lol
11:44:55 <fonsinchen> Also we want a BitIndexedList for things like Town::have_ratings/Town::ratings
11:46:16 <fonsinchen> and for Industry::produced_cargo/Industry::last_month_production/Industry::this_month_production
11:46:37 <fonsinchen> and a several other places. I'll make a patch for that.
11:50:29 <Starn> peter1138 ogg vorbis does have better bass and stereo
11:51:17 <peter1138> well that's probably just the different between split and joint-stereo
11:52:19 <Starn> and sound pretty dang good at 96kb better than aacPlus at 128kb so ogg is the winner thanks for suggesting it mate
12:05:30 <Stuffi> could someone help me with a problem while compiling openttd?
12:08:52 <Rubidium> guess the script failed for some strange reason; it'll recover tonight I hope
12:10:44 <Ammler> ok, removing index.html solves it
12:11:04 <Ammler> dunno about the other mirros...
12:11:06 <Rubidium> for snt it does, for the others probably not
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13:10:26 <Eddi|zuHause> i thought that's called "knight"?
13:11:43 <Wizzleby> Eddi|zuHause: not if the knight is a gnome. Then they're gnights, with gnives, who herd GNUs
13:11:52 <Starn> anyone willing to go into private chat and help me determan best sound quility for my radio stream?
13:24:51 <__ln__> it's dangerous to talk to strangers on the internet
13:24:58 <Eddi|zuHause> first they hack the coffee makers, and now the battery chargers?
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13:26:50 <Starn> oh no they hacked Eddi|zuHause through the charger!
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14:59:35 <Starn> hmm mIRC is being a pain in my butt not wanting to be connected to multiable servers.
15:02:32 <Eddi|zuHause> you are doing it wrong...
15:03:05 <Starn> now i have two servers i am connected to..
15:03:11 <Starn> one is this one and other is the Army...
15:31:54 <Jolteon> is it possible to make a plane (or indeed, any vehicle) take only a half load
15:32:19 <Jolteon> I want an airport to share a train station, but I don't want the planes to hog /all/ of the passengers, I want them to just take a half load, then fly off.
15:38:43 <planetmaker> that's not really possible
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16:09:17 <DJNekkid> Starn: /server -r <server> iirc
16:09:49 <DJNekkid> connects you to multiple servers
16:10:08 <Starn> i figured that out... just click check box..
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16:22:25 <Ammler> si there a known issue in trunk, so you crash after opening the mp lobby?
16:24:21 <Ammler> yeah, isn't head, was the known issue, thanks :-)
16:27:46 <Eddi|zuHause> <Starn> yea i know how to mac spoof. i most gamers i know though do not. so most games i play online uses ip and mac bans. <<-- you can only ban MAC addresses in a local network. anything that is not connected to the same physical network does not transmit its mac address
16:32:12 <Ammler> why does openttd assume, my localhost is ipv6?
16:35:33 <Starn> all i know is the army game have the ability to mac ban
16:36:22 <Ammler> well, 127.0.0.1 works, but imo localhost should rather be that :-)
16:36:43 <Eddi|zuHause> Starn: that is only possible if the game reads and transmits the MAC independently from the network protocol
16:37:27 <Eddi|zuHause> which makes it trivially spoofable in open-source games...
16:38:14 <Ammler> changing mac address might be easier than changing ip address
16:41:33 <Starn> it does . it knows only my spoofed mac. lol
16:42:34 <Eddi|zuHause> like i said, since the MAC is not transmitted by the network itself, you don't even need to change your MAC address, only the function that reads out the MAC address
16:42:56 <Starn> some how they detect that
16:43:05 <Starn> this is a game made by the american goverment
16:43:24 <Eddi|zuHause> like you can create a network bridge
16:43:29 <Starn> for awhile they had my exact mac adress for router and my pc
16:43:34 <Eddi|zuHause> which practically has a "random" MAC
16:43:46 <Starn> if you use to many macs you get banned
16:48:59 <Starn> gtg big storm temporarly even made my speakers stop. which i've never seen or heard of happening.
16:51:32 <ccfreak2k> <Starn> all i know is the army game have the ability to mac ban
16:51:51 <ccfreak2k> PunkBuster reads the MAC address of the NIC and reports that to the server.
16:52:00 <ccfreak2k> Server says "oh, that's a banned address".
16:55:23 <planetmaker> thus he spoketh into the void
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16:56:10 <planetmaker> well, then the void is filled now ;-)
16:58:08 <peter1138> celery is still disgusting
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17:10:58 <glx> <Ammler> why does openttd assume, my localhost is ipv6? <-- OS?
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17:16:26 <Ammler> ipv6 is enabled but unused
17:16:26 <Rubidium> Ammler: because :: 'binds' to both 127.0.0.1 and ::
17:17:09 <glx> I know vista redirects localhost to [::1] when ipv6 is enabled (and remove 127.0.0.1 redirection while at it)
17:17:20 <Ammler> is the server able to listen for both?
17:18:04 <glx> very nice when you can't reach your local ipv4 web server
17:20:18 <Ammler> I had only 0:0:0:0 in [addresses]
17:23:23 <Jolteon> damned planes taking all the passengers.
17:23:40 <Jolteon> I really hope in the future someone implements some feature to make any vehicle / craft take half loads
17:23:43 <Jolteon> as opposed to full load.
17:23:57 <Jolteon> (I.E Limit it to only take 50% of it's max, not what it can get, or full load)
17:24:01 <planetmaker> take smaller planes or supply more passengers. both usually no problem. or don't use full load.
17:24:32 <Jolteon> I don't use full load anyway
17:24:37 <Jolteon> they just take everything they can get.
17:24:42 <Jolteon> Cause the airport is linked to a train station.
17:24:53 <Jolteon> Trying to think of a way to prioritize it, so trains always get first choice.
17:26:37 <Sacro> i thought there wasa load %age patch
17:29:31 <planetmaker> for conditional orders you can use that. But that doesn't influence how much you load, if more is available.
17:29:59 <planetmaker> Jolteon, you could give your trains full load. Then they'll be full and the planes only get something when the trains don't use it.
17:30:11 <planetmaker> Worse case is that the train waits a tad longer to get full load
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18:19:58 <dih> peter1138, what's that audio software you and Belugas use sometimes to jam?
18:20:35 <dih> i wanted to have a look at it
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18:31:39 <Belugas> mmh... jamming with a saxo...
18:31:44 <Belugas> that might turn interesting
18:32:11 <planetmaker> that might add a whole new touch :-)
18:34:42 <dih> yeah - not sure i like the linux client :-P
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18:34:58 <peter1138> although i use a jackified build
18:36:01 <peter1138> the windows client works in wine
18:36:44 <peter1138> the plugin for reaper is the best version though
18:37:23 <peter1138> planetmaker, i used a fake saxophone once
18:37:36 <dih> hehe - that aint the same :-P
18:38:34 <peter1138> i never did carry on writing my gui client
18:40:34 <dih> and the growling.... my ;-)
18:41:19 <Belugas> as loud as my stomach
18:41:25 <peter1138> all the best freaks are here
18:41:42 <peter1138> please stop staring at me
18:41:47 <Wolf01> today is a good day to die (manowar)... on the streets because of snow (me)
18:43:03 <peter1138> dih, and if you use our ninjam server, it gets 'broadcast' as an mp3 stream ;)
18:43:13 <Rubidium> Wolf01: you should have come here... in a maybe 500m bus drive 4 people did step in front of the bus and the bus had to hit the breaks quite hard. A fifth time wouldn't have made much of a difference.
18:44:10 <Wolf01> on Trieste the wind speed today reached 188Km/h
18:45:29 <planetmaker> doesn't sound like a day to leave a building, Wolf01 ;-)
18:45:47 <Wolf01> no, it really does not
18:45:47 <CIA-6> OpenTTD: translators * r19379 /trunk/src/lang/ (7 files): (log message trimmed)
18:45:47 <CIA-6> OpenTTD: -Update from WebTranslator v3.0:
18:45:47 <CIA-6> OpenTTD: croatian - 1 changes by UnderwaterHesus
18:45:47 <CIA-6> OpenTTD: english_US - 19 changes by Rubidium, agenthh
18:45:47 <CIA-6> OpenTTD: greek - 5 changes by fumantsu
18:45:48 <CIA-6> OpenTTD: japanese - 9 changes by imkira
18:45:48 <CIA-6> OpenTTD: romanian - 5 changes by kkmic
18:46:37 <Wolf01> I waited this morning for a gap of the snowstorm to go to work
18:46:38 <CIA-6> OpenTTD: yexo * r19380 /trunk/src/saveload/afterload.cpp: -Fix [FS#3678] (r19322): updating the id of the oilrig airport should be done earlier as it can be used by newgrf code
18:46:48 <Wolf01> (that's why I was here this morning)
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18:47:23 <Rubidium> Kelvin meter per hour?
18:48:51 <Wolf01> I bet tomorrow there is nothing white outside so I'll must go to work
18:48:58 <planetmaker> [Km/h] = N/m^2 * kg / m ?
18:49:29 <Wolf01> how much does weight the wind?
18:50:24 <planetmaker> But the momentum and exerted pressure might be significant
18:50:50 <planetmaker> if not enriched with tiles from roofs and umbrellas.
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18:52:13 <CIA-6> OpenTTD: yexo * r19381 /trunk/src/saveload/station_sl.cpp: -Fix [FS#3670] (r19198): airport size wasn't properly stored in the savegame
18:52:51 <Wolf01> fractal airport, you can see the area but you can't calculate the size properly
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18:54:08 <Wolf01> gah, I must finish Mothership Z
18:59:58 <CIA-6> OpenTTD: yexo * r19382 /trunk/src/saveload/ (afterload.cpp saveload.cpp station_sl.cpp): -Fix (r19381): don't break savegame version 139
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20:01:53 <Zuu> Writing a motion (proposal) for an anual meeting which generates 26 changes to the by-laws. However they can be sumarized as two rather simple regular expressions. Now the problem is that on that meeting I guess only 5-10% have an idea what regular expresions are. :-p
20:11:40 <peter1138> not more boob links...
20:24:21 * Zuu complains at word for not having styles that just change a single property to the text you apply them to.
20:24:51 <Zuu> So I can do a find and apply style on my text with it without screwing the layout.
20:26:20 <Zuu> Even making it manually is impossible, other than setting the background color for the text at 26 places... and then the person who receives the document will have to change 26 places if they want another color...
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20:44:18 <CIA-6> OpenTTD: frosch * r19383 /trunk/src/tunnelbridge_cmd.cpp: -Fix [FS#3680]: Overbuilding bridges cleared PBS reservation.
20:45:35 <CIA-6> OpenTTD: frosch * r19384 /trunk/src/station_cmd.cpp: -Fix: Overbuilding plain rail with stations did not update PBS reservation.
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21:11:09 <Terkhen> what is a livery override?
21:16:36 <Noldo> Terkhen: changing the graphics based on some factor. For example chaning the way passanger cars look when attached to specific engine
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21:29:38 * Belugas enjoys some BloodyTimeZones - Feathers
21:35:20 <Starn> ugh i remember why i don't like watching the news..
21:37:53 <Belugas> hellish of a nice one peter1138 :)
21:38:01 <Belugas> it's on my cellphone even!
21:38:14 <Belugas> and now, time to run home, i'm too sick to keep on working
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21:58:17 <Coldice> petert, hy. you know you said that you could help with mingw
21:58:25 <Coldice> well.. now i need help
21:59:20 <Coldice> well.. I installed mingw and msys
21:59:37 <Coldice> downloaded the latest revision
21:59:53 <Coldice> in a folder home from msys
22:00:26 <Coldice> now i have the upgrade airport patch
22:00:40 <Coldice> but i really dont know how to apply it\
22:01:03 <PeterT> in the /home/HoSTeel/trunk directory
22:01:04 <enr1x> i am reading the tutorial. however, after starting a new game, i cannot build the bus depot i am advised in the wiki. i am using 1.0.0RC1, on Arch Linux
22:02:00 <Coldice> ok.. I already did that.. then in msys cd trunk
22:02:06 <PeterT> enr1x: Do you have the money for it?
22:02:13 <enr1x> PeterT: yes, 200,000EUR
22:02:32 <PeterT> enr1x: Is there an error message?
22:02:33 <enr1x> the button is greyed out
22:02:47 <Terkhen> enr1x: what starting date are you using?
22:02:52 <PeterT> Busses are not available
22:02:59 <enr1x> Terkhen: 26th April 1900
22:03:15 <PeterT> enr1x: Try getting a GRF and enabling it
22:03:19 <enr1x> makes sense in some way :)
22:03:31 <Coldice> then command patch -1 < airport.patch
22:03:39 <PeterT> enr1x: "Download Online Content" in the main menu
22:03:43 <Jolteon> There is a bus in Huddersfield that says "125 YEARS OF BUSES IN HUDDERSFIELD"
22:03:45 <PeterT> Coldice: There's your problem
22:03:46 <devilsadvocate> i think that by default there is nothing till 1924 or so
22:04:01 <devilsadvocate> Jolteon, the first car was in 1902 or so
22:04:02 <Terkhen> I don't think a NewGRF is the best option if you are new to OpenTTD, I would just set the date to 1950
22:04:06 <PeterT> Coldice: the command is "patch -p0 -i airport.patch"
22:04:12 <Jolteon> First (The company) are lying :o
22:04:17 <Jolteon> or did they have horse pulled buses
22:04:37 <SmatZ> devilsadvocate: there were "cars" with real "horse power" in the past
22:05:32 <Coldice> petert, it says sh: /bin/patch: Permission denied
22:05:32 <enr1x> ok, i'll change the date
22:05:43 <devilsadvocate> having horse drawn carriages in openttd
22:05:45 <enr1x> what are GRFs for? extending graphics?
22:05:45 <PeterT> Coldice: Permission problems?
22:05:52 <devilsadvocate> with 32bpp and extra zoom
22:06:15 <PeterT> Coldice: I'm not familiar with Windows 7, perhaps someone else is good with permissions and such
22:06:21 <PeterT> glx is like the windows god
22:06:31 <Terkhen> enr1x: new vehicles, industries, etc
22:06:41 <devilsadvocate> Coldice, that is with mingw?
22:06:42 <Coldice> anyway, thank you very much
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22:09:22 <enr1x> Terkhen: would you recommend me a specific package?
22:09:35 <enr1x> PeterT: thanks for the tip. the problem was the date.
22:10:33 <Terkhen> I'd play a few games with standard settings first
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22:39:08 <enr1x> wow this game is very cool, i like it
22:39:14 <enr1x> i have three bus lines now
22:39:27 <enr1x> good thing is, my bus network works better than my town's
22:41:43 <enr1x> how can I claim subsidies?
22:42:08 <enr1x> there was an offer of a subsidy for passengers from town a to town b. i have a line which goes from a to b, but i haven't got the money
22:42:18 <enr1x> it gets paid once the deadline arrives?
22:42:32 <__ln__> once first passengers from a to b arrive.
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22:45:31 <enr1x> __ln__: maybe they arrive dead, the route is quite long
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22:47:15 <glx> you just need to pick passengers from a and deliver them in b
22:49:16 <enr1x> glx: i think i found the problem, the line was from a to b, but with stops at c and d, perhaps the subsidy didn't apply in this case
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22:52:13 <Zuu> enr1x: if it stops at c and d then no passengers will reach all the way from a to b.
22:52:32 <Zuu> Unless you have given special orders tot the vehicle.
22:58:23 <enr1x> so the default is to unload
22:59:00 <enr1x> i thought there migth be some passengears eager to go to a town far away, after three stops or so
22:59:05 <enr1x> that might be interesting wouldn't it?
22:59:05 <Zuu> but you can set the orders so the vehicles will not unload for example at a given station.
22:59:19 <enr1x> Zuu: is there any way to clone orders?
22:59:29 <enr1x> that is, copy orders from one bus to the other?
22:59:47 <Zuu> Yep, click goto button and then on another vehicle.
23:00:03 <Zuu> If you hold CTRL while clicking on the other bus then they will share the orders as well.
23:00:28 <Zuu> When they are shared you can update the orders for one vehicle and it will affect all other vehicles that share those orders.
23:00:55 <Zuu> If you want that passengers should have a destination there is a develpoment branch called "cargodist" which provides that.
23:01:22 <enr1x> that's very cool! thanks for the tip
23:02:25 <Zuu> When you click on the clone button on the vehicle window, hold ctrl to make the clone share the orders.
23:03:22 <enr1x> Zuu: thanks for the link
23:03:51 <Zuu> On the right of that page you also have many links to other pages in the manual.
23:05:47 <enr1x> what about groups, what are those for? it'd be great if a whole grop could share orders as well, is it implemented yet?
23:06:27 <Zuu> You can make it happen if you make sure to share the orders when you buy the vehicles.
23:06:39 <Jolteon> tbh, OpenTTd would be great with one of those Tip Boxes at startup
23:06:47 <Jolteon> where it displays a random 'hidden' feature.
23:06:51 <Zuu> The other way is possible, eg creating a group of vehicles that share the orders if I remember correctly.
23:12:50 <Eddi|zuHause> hm... are the curve speeds grf-definable?
23:17:02 <Zuu> no idea. Though I though of that if you would create a road (or rail) type that has higher curve speed then another compatible road/rail-type then players could exploint that by only building the corners with this type.
23:18:27 *** ChanServ sets mode: +v tokai
23:18:59 <Eddi|zuHause> yes, but you could disable the original railtypes, and make a set of new railtypes with stronger restrictions
23:21:45 <Zuu> As in having a callback checking the type of neighbour tiles?
23:23:18 <Zuu> How would you else stop that exploit? And still have vehicle compatibility in both directions between the track types.
23:24:22 <devilsadvocate> Eddi|zuHause, curve speeds are somewhat vehicle defined
23:24:28 <Zuu> That track type B has higher curve speed than B and someone choice to just make all the corners of type B but then all straight pieces of A.
23:24:41 <Eddi|zuHause> the old way was an array of speeds for all curve length, like {60, 80, 110, 130, 170, ...}, this array was then checked in the rail acceleration code
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23:24:55 <Eddi|zuHause> all i'm asking is whether this array is exposed as a newgrf property
23:25:06 <Zuu> I was mostly having roads in my mind. Eg making all corners of a "highway" type which is very expansive but has higher corner speed.
23:25:34 <Eddi|zuHause> Zuu: so, what's the problem with just balancing that through the price?
23:25:39 <devilsadvocate> Eddi|zuHause, there are trains which go faster on curves (tilting), there may be those that go slower. those hooks are exposed at least
23:26:21 <Eddi|zuHause> devilsadvocate: that's a simple vehicle flag that gives a bonus factor, i believe.
23:26:46 <devilsadvocate> yeah, isnt that really enough for most things?
23:27:05 <Zuu> Eddi|zuHause: The problem would be that the prices I would assume be balanced for building longer stretches of the highway/fast rail type. But then it wouln't be so expansive to just make the corners of high-quality track but the straight pieces of lower quality.
23:28:07 <Eddi|zuHause> Zuu: other than make the normal roads with speed limit, i don't know how to enforce that
23:28:30 <Eddi|zuHause> but again, that is not what i'm asking...
23:29:03 <Eddi|zuHause> Zuu: imho, highways need multi-tile curves...
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23:29:39 <Zuu> Yep, that way you would make it more impractical to abuse them as better corners for regular road.
23:29:41 <Eddi|zuHause> but that needs more than a simple "roadtypes" feature
23:30:26 <Prof_Frink> Add a penalty going from one tracktype to another.
23:37:50 <Eddi|zuHause> planetmaker: the wiki page lacks a description of railtype property 11 "Curve speed advantage"
23:40:20 <Jolteon> Would OpenTTD run more smoothly if I let a different computer (like another PC on my LAN) do the server, and then I connected to it?
23:40:25 <Jolteon> OpenTTD gets so slow for me in busy games.
23:40:36 <Jolteon> oh wait, OpenTTD would still process the same amount of data, wouldn't it
23:42:06 <Eddi|zuHause> everything that is calculated on the server is also calculated at the client
23:42:13 <Eddi|zuHause> thus you will not get any improvement
23:42:35 <PeterT> enr1x: hey, <Zuu> If you want that passengers should have a destination there is a develpoment branch called "cargodist" which provides that. <-- You can find builds of CargoDist in the thread, made by me
23:44:33 <Zuu> While I don't want to put any preasure on you for doing another compilation there is a big risk that the last binary you posted is affected by the two fatal bugs that I mentioned in the thread.
23:45:33 <PeterT> Zuu: I know, I was hoping to use my computer for SSH, and using my computer at all is impossible with the builds
23:45:46 <PeterT> *while making all the builds
23:46:17 <Jolteon> Eddi|zuHause: Does the server also load a visual representation of the map?
23:46:27 <Jolteon> I noticed OpenTTD dedis using INCREDIBLE amounts of CPU at a busy game.
23:46:30 <Zuu> Not a problem, but perhaps don't recommend newbies to use the builds until there are newer builds?
23:46:58 <Eddi|zuHause> Jolteon: graphics only make a small part of the CPU power. this is not a 3D game...
23:47:20 <Jolteon> I've had an openttd server using a full 4 core server.
23:47:30 <Jolteon> (but running fairly smoothly on a dual core client)
23:47:36 <OwenS> Jolteon: No you haven't. OpenTTD doesn't use more than one core
23:47:38 <Eddi|zuHause> if you want to improve your game experience, play smaller maps with fewer vehicles
23:47:48 <Jolteon> OwenS: I'm going by what htop says.
23:48:06 <Eddi|zuHause> that is 100% of one CPU
23:48:08 <Zuu> Jolteon: OpenTTD uses mostly one core, at maximum 2.
23:48:18 <Jolteon> I would concur, apart from htop was showing all 4 of the bars moving
23:48:21 <Zuu> The second core will only be used for compressing save games.
23:48:24 <Eddi|zuHause> if it used 4, it would say 400%
23:48:31 <PeterT> Zuu: I'll put a note in the post
23:48:39 <OwenS> Jolteon: That will be the OS cycling it between cores (Silly thing to do that)
23:48:50 <Eddi|zuHause> that has nothing to do with cpu usage
23:48:52 <Jolteon> with htop reading 97% CPU
23:49:23 <Jolteon> I must say (With no disrespect to the developers) OpenTTD is one of the most CPU heavy dedicated servers I've ever ran.
23:49:39 <Jolteon> and i've ran 3D server dedi servers.
23:49:56 <Eddi|zuHause> that is because 80% of the client CPU power is used to calculate the game state
23:49:59 <Jolteon> Apart from TF2, that one just screamed about no valid fonts and shut itself down.
23:50:07 <Eddi|zuHause> so you can't win more than 20% by using dedicated server
23:50:15 <Jolteon> After using the core 100% until it managed to figure out it had no fonts.
23:50:39 <Eddi|zuHause> like i said, this is NOT a 3D game. graphics is NOT the limiting factor
23:50:50 <Jolteon> If I wanted a parrot, I'd buy one.
23:50:59 <Jolteon> Much like if I wanted the obvious stating to me, I'd go buy The Sun.
23:51:03 <ccfreak2k> OwenS, shouldn't migration resistance be configurable in Linux?
23:51:18 <Jolteon> I use Debian 5, if that helps.
23:51:46 <OwenS> ccfreak2k: Should be. And it should be set to very resistant ;-). An application should stick on one core (And by that I mean all it's threads) unless theres compelling reasons why to do otherwise
23:52:54 <Jolteon> OwenS: why would there be reasons for it to do otherwise? :p
23:53:46 <Zuu> Take your time and don't stress about creating those binaries. Eg. do it when you have time and feel for it.
23:54:03 <OwenS> Jolteon: A good reason is that the application is pegging the core. In that case, putting the app on two cores is beneficial
23:54:30 <PeterT> Zuu: I just realized I'll be doing something else for about an hour anyway so I might as well start the build.
23:54:40 <PeterT> Oh, silly me, can't plan ahead
23:56:25 <Jolteon> I'm guessing OpenTTD does some pretty heavy calculations for everything then
23:56:30 <Jolteon> CPU usage can be out the window.
23:57:07 <Eddi|zuHause> did you read ANYTHING i said?
23:57:20 <Jolteon> No, I stopped when you went on about the same shit over and over.
23:57:31 <Jolteon> Talking to me like i'm an idiot puts you on mental block
23:57:42 <PeterT> Oh, shit's goin' down! Shit's goin' down!
23:58:04 <Jolteon> THE ROOF, THE ROOF, THE ROOF IS ON FIRE.
23:59:25 <Zuu> Jolteon: Do you have ships on your server?
23:59:35 <Zuu> On a big map with YAPP? :-p
23:59:58 <Jolteon> Most people use craploads of trains and planes.
continue to next day ⏵
