IRC logs for #openttd on OFTC at 2010-02-10
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00:00:02 <Rubidium> (compromising via the network is hard if the network hardware isn't supported out-of-the-box)
00:01:12 <SpComb^> hmm, minimap zoom in trunk
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00:01:53 <Eddi|zuHause> Rubidium: it should probably mean "4 minutes after going online"
00:06:22 <ccfreak2k> I have no idea how to craft my own argv.
00:06:34 <ccfreak2k> And I dunno how to make a bootstrapper to launch openttd either.
00:07:36 <Rubidium> something like: const char *argv[] = { "./openttd" };
00:08:25 <ccfreak2k> I just made my test program wrong.
00:11:07 <ccfreak2k> Each arg is null terminated right?
00:12:37 <Eddi|zuHause> C-strings tend to do that, yes
00:14:09 <Rubidium> odd... I would've expected WineHQ's website to have more traffic than OpenTTD's, but it doesn't
00:14:59 * SpComb^ wishes fonso the best of patience in maintaining cargodist and its smallmap UI
00:15:06 <SmatZ> because of images, or downloads?
00:15:44 <Rubidium> well, since early January we don't distribute the binaries anymore
00:16:00 <Eddi|zuHause> who on earth downloads wine from the website?
00:16:26 <Rubidium> and wine has ~50GB this month, OpenTTD ~60GB (only website for both)
00:16:41 <Eddi|zuHause> you either install it from your package manager, or you build it from git checkout
00:17:51 <Rubidium> but for OpenTTD roughly the same holds
00:18:52 <SpComb^> "With respect to zoom-in, the step from most zoomed-in smallmap to most zoomed-out viewport doesn't seem very big, thus adding zoom-in to the map would duplicate viewport functionality."
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00:25:50 <PeterT> Borat gets funnier every time I watch it.
00:25:56 <PeterT> The same isn't true with Bruno, though.
00:29:29 <SpComb^> there's something a little aggrevating about Alberth giving a point-by-point response to fonso's post from November - where fonso's asking for feedback/review on adapting his patch to be in agreement with the devs - after clobbering said patch with an incompatible implementation in trunk two and a half months later
00:31:38 <SpComb^> but I'm not aware of the full scope of the discussion on flyspray/IRC, the forum thread just reads a little weird on its own
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00:41:48 <Rubidium> SpComb: my 'belief' is that when fonso has made up his mind he's very difficult to be persuaded otherwise
00:42:22 <Rubidium> e.g. the cargopacket/cargolsit optimisation thing
00:42:37 <Rubidium> X is faster, I've tested it
00:43:15 <Rubidium> when it was actually slower in trunk
00:44:14 <Rubidium> another example is that he is 'convinced' that viewport and smallmap zoom levels must use the same enum
00:45:10 <Rubidium> even when they are conceptually very different things
00:45:52 <Rubidium> well, unless you abstract even further... but then trains, road vehicles and such are also all 'the same'
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00:47:50 <ccfreak2k> I think doltool strips debug info.
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00:51:09 <Rubidium> and I wonder whether Alberth might not have seen that it was such an old post he replied too, but that you would have to ask alberth
00:53:56 <Rubidium> and besides that, would OpenTTD 'ever' support zoom in? What if we just add two zoom out levels, fiddle a bit with the defaults? Then you'd still not have 'zoom in' in the main viewport, although 'oldies' would see it as zoom in the old 'max zoom in' level will just be 'zoomed out twice' or so
00:54:11 <SpComb^> I don't have any technical opinions of my own on the ZoomLevel stuff, but as far as I can see he did ask about it on FS#3094; "So, to conclude: With a separate enum for smallmap zooming, would the patches in FS#54 be accepted? Creating a separate enum is one of the easier solutions and if this time it's not in vain I'll do it."
00:55:35 <Rubidium> now I have very little knowledge about the smallmap code myself, but would adding 'zoom in' levels not just be 'the same'? Why make stuff unneededly complex by having both a zoom in and zoom out concept in the same window?
00:55:43 <ccfreak2k> Use a magnifying glass?
00:56:29 <SpComb^> as far as I can tell, the zoom level is just a signed int... extend it off to the left and you've got zoom-in :)
00:56:52 <Rubidium> yes-ish, but a << -1 doesn't quite work IIRC
00:57:36 <SpComb^> a little `if (zl < 0) return x >> -zl; else return x << zl;` magic does the trick...
00:58:43 <Rubidium> true, but that adds more complexity; you'd need to add such code to all 'conversion' stuff
01:00:52 <SpComb^> ah well, I don't know what coordinate magic the minimap does
01:01:03 <Rubidium> anyhow, I've personally 'given up' on smallmap zoom a long time ago. Anyhow, having multiple different places where people want to discuss the same thing isn't very useful (especially multiple issues in the tracker)
01:01:55 <SpComb^> communication isn't always easy, it's just a pity if/when it ends up leading to wasted effort/work :(
01:03:21 <Rubidium> but then you can argue cargodist is wasted work too, because cargodest already existed
01:03:44 <Rubidium> multiple different implementations are sometimes good for gathering the best ideas
01:05:12 <SpComb^> I do miss some of the GUI features from cargodest, but the MCF model is superior
01:05:22 <SpComb^> (station cargo tree view...)
01:06:20 <SpComb^> hmm... the cargodist thread will have it's one-year anniversary on the 24th :)
01:06:43 <Rubidium> well, cargodest first focussed on the lowest level stuff and he hasn't begun on the whole flow optimisation stuff, so yes... cargodist might be better there
01:07:06 <Rubidium> cargodest was better with the respect that it used so few resources
01:07:18 <Rubidium> but worse because it added a boost dependency
01:07:54 <Rubidium> although I don't quite fancy the thread stuff of cargodist; it makes it computationally harder to join servers
01:08:28 <Rubidium> but then, I haven't looked deeply into cargodist's code lately
01:09:26 <Rubidium> trying to get trunk into a somewhat releasable state and such :)
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01:17:05 <PeterT> You join #openttdcoop.
01:18:40 <cornjuliox> heh. i missed the /
01:19:46 <SpComb^> Rubidium: quite, 1.0 will be a milestone when it lets you install a full OpenTTD from apt :)
01:26:51 <Rubidium> yup, and likely earlier in a Debian stable than a Ubuntu stable
01:27:09 <Rubidium> (I question the stability on non-LTS Ubuntu)
01:27:39 <Rubidium> and Debian's freeze in March seems to be postponed
01:28:50 <Rubidium> so... bigger chances of OpenTTD making it into Squeeze
01:29:31 <Eddi|zuHause> how does debian version naming work anyway?
01:29:34 <Rubidium> was amazed that Ubuntu did update OpenTTD a few days ago, instead of like two months ago
01:29:43 <Rubidium> Eddi|zuHause: Toy Story names
01:30:06 <Rubidium> and if you don't like the code names: oldstable, stable, testing and unstable
01:30:22 <Rubidium> currently equals: etch, lenny, squeeze and sid
01:31:39 <Eddi|zuHause> so when marking a new stable, they shift the names?
01:32:05 <Rubidium> unstable will always be sid
01:32:34 <Rubidium> but stable becomes oldstable, testing becomes stable and a new testing is made
01:33:27 <Rubidium> I've got no idea how the new testing is made though, although I reckon it's just the old testing that then gets the packages pulled in from unstable again
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03:25:53 <wysiwtf> and hope for an AI that clears its ununsed routes
03:26:25 <wysiwtf> and unsuccessful attempts
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09:18:59 <cornjuliox> does openttd have problems running on AMD K6-2 processors?
09:21:49 <blathijs> I've never heard of any, but I guess there aren't much of those in use :-)
09:21:54 <blathijs> cornjuliox: Are you having problems?
09:23:34 <cornjuliox> well, i dont know if its the processor, but 0.7.5 and 1.0.0-beta3 have been locking up on me, i'd be playing and the entire PC would just hang, it wouldn't respond to mouse input, keyboard input, etc i have to restart when that happens i'm still trying to figure out whats wrong
09:24:17 <cornjuliox> memtest86 dosen't raise any errors after running for like 8 hours
09:24:23 <cornjuliox> dunno what service pack is installed
09:24:37 <cornjuliox> ah, service pack 2
09:24:58 <blathijs> Tried cpuburn or something similar? Perhaps it's an overheating problem?
09:25:43 <cornjuliox> i don't think its an overheating problem
09:25:50 <cornjuliox> i play games far more demanding than openttd and it never hangs like that
09:26:16 <blathijs> Ah, that probably rules that out, then
09:26:42 <blathijs> If it locks up, does it still respond to pings on the network?
09:26:48 <cornjuliox> i only have one computer
09:27:57 <blathijs> Is there a pattern to the lockups? e.g., it's always after around 15 minutes, when you're building rail tracks, on the year end, etc. ?
09:28:41 <cornjuliox> not really, but on 3 occassions it locked up on me when I clicked on the "Generate" button.
09:28:59 <cornjuliox> other times I can play for anywhere betweeen 10-15 minutes before it locks up.
09:29:44 <planetmaker> It *does* sound like a hardware issue to me.
09:30:01 <cornjuliox> yeah, which piece of hardware?
09:30:29 <planetmaker> well, what blathijs proposed first: overheated CPU...
09:30:49 <planetmaker> and it's not like OpenTTD is light on that. It may only use one core, but that determines easily heat generation, if at 100%.
09:31:08 <planetmaker> But then I assume blathijs knows more about it than myself :-)
09:31:58 <cornjuliox> certainly seems like it. i'm gonna get me an infrared thermometer.
09:32:19 <planetmaker> or possibly faulty memory. That doesn't help either... or faulty power supply :-)
09:32:26 <cornjuliox> or, do you know of any apps that can record CPU temp as a series of points on a graph over time?
09:32:34 <cornjuliox> so i can look at it after restarting
09:32:50 <planetmaker> sorry... I rarely use windows.
09:33:06 <planetmaker> cpuburn is a name of a programme I heart in that respect, though
09:33:19 <planetmaker> it's not a thermometer, but part of a test suite or so.
09:33:36 <planetmaker> otherwise we have a 100k€ IR camera here :-D
09:34:18 <kd5pbo> planetmaker: Sell the camera, buy a new car.
09:34:32 <planetmaker> I DO have a new car. Why should I sell the camera?
09:34:33 <blathijs> cornjuliox: Perhaps motherboard monitor can do that, if it still exists?
09:34:43 <kd5pbo> planetmaker: Sell the camera, buy me a car.
09:34:49 <peter1138> heh, windows 98. how quaint.
09:34:54 <planetmaker> let me consider....
09:35:09 <kd5pbo> I take cash or check, as well.
09:35:30 <planetmaker> I guess it wouldn't look good either to sell state property ;-)
09:35:42 <blathijs> planetmaker: As for the "It may use only one core" remark, the K6-2 predates the multi-core processors by a decade or so :-)
09:36:15 <planetmaker> blathijs, :-) Right, still valid remark wrt multi-core then, but a bit pointless, too ;-)
09:36:25 <peter1138> and win98 won't use more than one core
09:36:41 <planetmaker> but he said XP, peter1138 ?
09:36:43 <blathijs> peter1138: Where did this win98 notion come from? cornjuliox said he uses Windows XP
09:37:01 <blathijs> I know it is more obvious to run win98 on a K6-2, though :-)
09:37:33 <peter1138> ah, on my screen "memtest86" is above "windows xp"
09:38:17 <peter1138> my skim reading failed and i saw windows with 86 upside down? :s
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09:40:37 <peter1138> planetmaker, do you see "flashing" anywhere in the docs?
09:41:51 <planetmaker> peter1138, I don't. But "flashing" is a graphic property set by the correct colour index
09:41:59 <planetmaker> so it need not be in the docs itself.
09:42:09 <peter1138> "The doc only specifies the 'flashing' lights"
09:42:45 <planetmaker> Well... flashing lights or barrier. Can be made such that the bar or barrier is drawin in the same sprite
09:43:09 <peter1138> the doc only specifies lights, not flashing lights :)
09:43:13 <peter1138> of course it can be barriers
09:43:35 <peter1138> clearly i documented W and E incorrectly
09:43:38 <planetmaker> eh? whether flashing or not, doesn't matter, does it?
09:43:53 <planetmaker> it's only a matter of chosing the correct colour? Or where am I wrong there?
09:43:55 <peter1138> planetmaker, no, but stevenh says the spec specifies flashing
09:44:26 <planetmaker> well, put that way, it's wrong what he says. And I tried to tell him that 'flashing' is a colour issue
09:44:40 <planetmaker> not an issue of sprites
09:44:41 <peter1138> you are correct in that you need varaction2 var42 to differentiate between closed and open crossings
09:45:14 <planetmaker> ok :-) But why do you have 4 sprites then for the x direction? Left and right road side?
09:45:28 <planetmaker> Or what is the detailed meaning?
09:47:45 <planetmaker> he... deleted my last posting :-D
09:50:21 <planetmaker> ok, then it's indeed the left and right road side :-) Thanks for showing.
09:50:23 <peter1138> if you want barriers, draw barriers and maybe empty sprites
09:50:34 <peter1138> and of course direction does matter
09:50:57 <planetmaker> Those bounding boxes are not fixed, but defined by the sprite size - as usual.
09:51:06 <peter1138> no, the bounding boxes are fixed
09:51:20 <peter1138> but you can draw outside them
09:51:22 <planetmaker> So... having a barrier included in, say, the right one, wouldn't be a problem... hm, fixed?
09:51:44 <peter1138> you have to consider sprite ordering
09:52:12 <peter1138> and remember that ultimately 2D sorting messes things up
09:52:26 <devilsadvocate> is there a channel for the 32bpp extra zoom levels?
09:52:37 <planetmaker> devilsadvocate, no.
09:52:40 <peter1138> to draw a closed barrier you want to draw it in the W and E boxes
09:52:52 <peter1138> the N and S boxes can be empty sprites then
09:53:32 <peter1138> ^ that method was tried
09:53:51 <peter1138> just two sprites and two bounding boxes that change depending on whether the crossing is open or closed
09:54:05 <peter1138> but it didn't work in some cases
09:54:34 <planetmaker> yes, I'd assume so, especially if the barrier is not over the tracks, but upright in the open state
09:57:30 <planetmaker> let's see, I think your bounding box example could be added to the newgrf wiki
10:00:54 <planetmaker> mind if I use your bounding box image?
10:02:19 <planetmaker> of course you mind? :-D
10:02:32 <peter1138> it's generated by ottd anyway :p
10:02:58 <planetmaker> Yeah, Ctrl+B helps a lot :-)
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11:26:31 <roboboy> what is the config file name for funding a town
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11:35:10 <Eddi|zuHause> it's founding, not funding
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11:43:58 <peter1138> it's also guess, not geuse, or however...
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11:50:37 <planetmaker> roboboy, the answer is most easily obtained by searching your cfg for "town". One of those entries will be the obvious answer
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13:00:44 <planetmaker> hello day_Owl. you're early :-)
13:01:45 <Nite_Owl> Hello planetmaker - late actually - I have to take my car in to be serviced
13:02:25 <planetmaker> I hope nothing severe
13:02:54 <Nite_Owl> I tried to get to sleep early for me - around midnight my time but woke up at 3 anyway
13:03:31 <Nite_Owl> I am hoping for the best but it should be just a routine tune up and such
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13:04:27 <planetmaker> Then let's hope the best :-)
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13:05:14 <Nite_Owl> I did get a dashboard warning light on the transmission which promptly went away so I am hoping to be just low on fluid
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13:06:35 <Nite_Owl> but it does need a complete going over, oil change, spark plugs, filters, and such as it has been awhile since I had it done
13:07:36 <Nite_Owl> time was I could do all of that myself but on today's cars I barely know what I am looking at when I pop the hood
13:08:20 <peter1138> that's less than useful
13:10:02 <TrueBrain> peter1138: what did you do?
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13:14:58 <peter1138> TrueBrain, changed my theme in gnome
13:15:43 <peter1138> loads of stuff was swapped out
13:15:50 <peter1138> it tried to swap it all back in together
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13:32:52 <ccfreak2k> I just spent a good hour debugging a bug with that had a stupid simple fix.
13:37:11 <Rubidium> ccfreak2k: *only* an hour?
13:37:47 <ccfreak2k> Now I'm on to a more tricky bug.
13:44:38 <ccfreak2k> malloc() is giving a seg violation after some number of times being run by sq_vm_malloc().
13:44:55 <ccfreak2k> Or uh, SQString::Create or something.
13:44:58 <ccfreak2k> Maybe it's running out of memory.
13:50:51 <Rubidium> how much memory does the device have?
13:52:23 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: smatz * r19074 /trunk/src/ (console_cmds.cpp settings.cpp): -Change: when filtering list of settings and console commands, use strstr() instead of strncmp()
13:57:16 <peter1138> might not be enough, heh
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14:10:06 <ccfreak2k> Squirrel is used for AI right?
14:10:13 <Rubidium> TrueBrain: but there's so much you can redo :)
14:17:20 <Eddi|zuHause> TrueBrain: register for my final exams
14:17:32 <TrueBrain> sure; I can also give you the grades now, if you like
14:17:47 <Eddi|zuHause> studying and learning is trivial, but the whole bureaucracy i can't handle
14:17:48 <Rubidium> TrueBrain: bananas, WT3(.1), CF
14:18:13 <TrueBrain> Rubidium: nah, too much work
14:24:06 <TrueBrain> and andythenorth was going to do BaNaNaS :p
14:25:13 <Eddi|zuHause> i'm lost in an hour...
14:25:37 <TrueBrain> we will count down till then
14:28:20 <ccfreak2k> This isn't an out-of-memory issue.
14:28:32 <ccfreak2k> Otherwise malloc() would return NULL.
14:41:12 <TrueBrain> malloc itself should never segfault in any way
14:41:20 <TrueBrain> else I would start to worry about your libc :p
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14:42:13 <ccfreak2k> TrueBrain, I would expect libc (newlib in this instance) to be well-debugged, and errors that appear to happen in these libs are usually because of bad input.
14:42:33 <TrueBrain> ccfreak2k: no 'bad' input to malloc should ever cause a crash
14:42:38 <TrueBrain> as it only has 1 param .....
14:42:55 <TrueBrain> clearly, newlib is not that well debugged :p
14:42:59 <TrueBrain> not for your intended platform anyway
14:44:02 <SmatZ> [15:28:34] <ccfreak2k> Otherwise malloc() would return NULL. <== it's very likely your system "overallocates" memory
14:44:19 <TrueBrain> SmatZ: so a bad libc ;)
14:44:34 <SmatZ> it's common practice to increase malloc() speed
14:44:36 <ccfreak2k> That's easily testable.
14:45:26 <SmatZ> well, I am not saying it won't crash for malloc(2GiB), but it's likely it won't crash for 1000000 calls malloc(4KiB)
14:47:29 <SmatZ> I think first will return NULL, second will crash
14:47:43 <SmatZ> maybe a bit more than 2GiB, and only on 32bit system
14:47:54 <TrueBrain> my malloc doesnt mention that :p
14:48:07 <TrueBrain> man malloc, that is :)
14:48:13 <TrueBrain> SmatZ: yeah, k, then I understand you :)
14:48:36 <ccfreak2k> Mine does, but I'm on linux too.
14:51:51 <thingwath> I think that if you'll really try to use 2 GiB of memory (while not having that much), system will starve so much, that it will never get to the crash (before you kill it yourself). :)
14:52:21 <TrueBrain> be glad it aint windows, it will swap before that ........
14:53:01 <ccfreak2k> IIRC Windows gives you the pointer but doesn't really allocate it yet.
14:53:46 <TrueBrain> memory in general is not what it seems
14:53:52 <thingwath> No system with virtual memory will actually allocate the pages just when somebody calls mmap on 2 GiB of anonymous memory.
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15:02:01 <ccfreak2k> Coded up a simple malloc tester.
15:02:10 <ccfreak2k> Alloc'd 64KB at a time.
15:02:33 <ccfreak2k> It didn't crash before I got a null ptr from one of the calls.
15:03:01 <TrueBrain> lol, so if first returns NULL, then it crashes? :p
15:03:28 <ccfreak2k> I should remove the check and find out.
15:03:50 <TrueBrain> owh, it didnt crash at all
15:04:37 <ccfreak2k> It's not set to close. It just breaks into the debugger.
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15:09:27 <ccfreak2k> I allocated 21,888KB of memory.
15:09:51 <TrueBrain> I think you need a new system :p
15:10:02 <TrueBrain> try using valgrind, it will tell you in much more detail what goes wrong :)
15:10:16 <ccfreak2k> They didn't make GameCubes with more than 24MB of memory. :)
15:10:27 <ccfreak2k> Actually they do, but they're called Wiis.
15:10:47 <TrueBrain> ccfreak2k: reduce the amount of memory for the sprite cache
15:10:54 <TrueBrain> might give you a bit more room to work with AIs
15:11:20 <ccfreak2k> TrueBrain, does the sprite cache init before AI does?
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15:14:01 <TrueBrain> it is btw set to just 4 MiB by default
15:15:15 <ccfreak2k> Ok, so it didn't crash after many calls with null ptrs returned.
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15:17:01 <peter1138> thing is, when you get a null, what do you do?
15:17:30 <ccfreak2k> In my test program, or in proper behaviour?
15:17:33 <TrueBrain> scream like a girl?
15:17:37 <peter1138> in normal behaviour
15:17:39 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: smatz * r19075 /trunk/src/ (6 files in 2 dirs): -Codechange: unhackify NetworkChangeCompanyPassword()
15:17:47 <peter1138> TrueBrain, but you do that anyway
15:18:03 <TrueBrain> I take you have seen the movie of me and Belugas?
15:18:11 <ccfreak2k> Whatever is appropriate if I couldn't get memory. Maybe I return 1 and say that there's not enough memory.
15:18:29 <ccfreak2k> And free whatever I was going to use but now is useless.
15:21:13 <Belugas> yeah... the movie that was not supposed to be made public :S
15:21:44 <TrueBrain> owh ... really? I thought you said: PLEASE make it public
15:25:00 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: terkhen * r19076 /trunk/ (7 files in 3 dirs): -Codechange: Move graph functions to their own header.
15:27:00 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: smatz * r19077 /trunk/src/console_cmds.cpp: -Codechange: remove company_pw from console vars
15:29:14 <ccfreak2k> I re-wrote the test to also write into the allocated memory, and it stops at 21,888KB again.
15:31:48 <glx> size of your test program is 2688KB ?
15:32:19 <ccfreak2k> In memory, probably.
15:32:27 <ccfreak2k> The DOL file itself is about 268KB.]
15:40:30 <ccfreak2k> Not that I know of.
15:43:35 <ccfreak2k> Is it possible to remove squirrel/AI from OpenTTD?
15:44:07 <APTX> Is everyone from the other channel in here?!?
15:46:14 <Yexo> but in the near future it probably will be
15:50:39 <ccfreak2k> Now a crash is occurring elsewhere.
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15:55:36 <peter1138> you should disable compilation of drivers and blitters that you don't need
15:56:51 <ccfreak2k> I know for sure video/music drivers I'm not using aren't included.
15:58:01 <peter1138> they usually aren't, indeed
15:58:14 <ccfreak2k> I'm not using the openttd configure/makefile.
16:04:24 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: rubidium * r19078 /trunk/src/lang/hebrew.txt: -Update: add cases to Hebrew (dnd_man)
16:06:56 *** Progman_ has joined #openttd
16:07:34 <ccfreak2k> I'm just saying, whatever configure would pick and exclude doesn't apply here.
16:09:10 *** Rexxars has joined #openttd
16:10:19 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: smatz * r19079 /trunk/src/ (console.cpp console_cmds.cpp debug.cpp debug.h): -Codechange: use _debug_console_level instead of _stdlib_con_developer
16:11:25 *** Progman_ is now known as Progman
16:13:07 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: smatz * r19080 /trunk/src/ (debug.cpp debug.h): -Cleanup: remove unused _debug_ntp_level and _debug_ms_level
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16:24:19 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: rubidium * r19081 /trunk/ (21 files in 7 dirs): -Codechange: make it possible to disable compilation of the AI+Squirrel
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16:36:11 *** Progman_ is now known as Progman
16:39:50 <ccfreak2k> A yet different bug has appeared.
16:40:20 <Eddi|zuHause> damn these bugs, they are so efficient at multiplying
16:40:28 <ccfreak2k> Oh wait, it's not a bug.
16:40:31 <ccfreak2k> It's user stupidity this time.
16:41:44 <ccfreak2k> Program dies at sqtable.h:69
16:42:49 <Rubidium> just compile without AI support
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17:01:15 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: smatz * r19082 /trunk/src/ (4 files in 2 dirs): -Codechange: make 'developer' a regular setting
17:03:28 *** Chris_Booth has joined #openttd
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17:07:34 <Eddi|zuHause> oh, i was annoyed by that recently, and was on the brink of asking for a way to make the setting stick ;)
17:32:51 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: smatz * r19083 /trunk/src/ (console.cpp console_cmds.cpp console_internal.h): -Cleanup: remove support for modifying variables from console
17:37:58 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: smatz * r19084 /trunk/src/ (8 files in 3 dirs): -Codechange: minor coding-style fixups
17:38:05 <planetmaker> clean-up-smatzy striked yet another time
17:39:10 <ccfreak2k> Are debug messages funneled through one or two functions?
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17:41:00 <Eddi|zuHause> ccfreak2k: i'd try looking in debug.h
17:41:10 <Rubidium> the return of the frosch! :)
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17:41:41 <Eddi|zuHause> it's quak, not quack
17:42:10 <Eddi|zuHause> a quack(-salber) is a doctor-imposer
17:42:41 <planetmaker> Eddi|zuHause, you simply do have no clue about frog-speak ;-)
17:42:49 <planetmaker> Quack is a heartily greeting!
17:43:11 <frosch123> exactly the thing you expect after 9 hours work
17:43:11 <Eddi|zuHause> indeed i have no clue about frogs, we only have toads around here...
17:43:31 <Prof_Frink> planetmaker: Silly. It're ducks what quacks.
17:48:52 <ccfreak2k> openttd printed its help text to the console.
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17:55:34 <planetmaker> ccfreak2k, uhm... what's new about that?
17:55:45 <ccfreak2k> planetmaker, up until now it just crashes.
17:56:02 <Eddi|zuHause> planetmaker: he's trying to compile for gamecube/wii
17:56:26 <planetmaker> oh.... :-) then it's indeed an improvement. Congratz.
17:58:22 <peter1138> hmm, TileHash() is distinctly patternish
17:58:47 <Rubidium> then use the method from tree_cmd.cpp
17:59:03 <Rubidium> maybe generalise that so it's used for houses too
18:00:08 <peter1138> hmm, that stores the random data on the map
18:00:54 <Rubidium> see line 454 of tree_cmd.cpp; that's basically it
18:01:14 <Rubidium> and it seems to work quite well for trees
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18:18:21 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: smatz * r19085 /trunk/src/ (console.cpp console_cmds.cpp console_internal.h): -Codechange: simplify hooking of console commands
18:22:47 *** Alberth has joined #openttd
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18:34:21 <dihedral> hihi - bought a new spring for my air pressure gun
18:34:43 <dihedral> i new i was missing out on something
18:34:46 <planetmaker> you play paintball?
18:44:46 <Eddi|zuHause> SmatZ: when should we expect the "make squirrel the console language" commit? :p
18:45:59 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: translators * r19086 /trunk/src/lang/ (14 files): (log message trimmed)
18:45:59 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: -Update from WebTranslator v3.0:
18:45:59 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: traditional_chinese - 4 changes by josesun
18:45:59 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: dutch - 4 changes by habell
18:45:59 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: french - 3 changes by glx
18:46:00 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: german - 2 changes by planetmaker
18:46:00 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: greek - 4 changes by fumantsu
18:46:28 <planetmaker> the line count drops ;-)
18:49:19 <Rubidium> planetmaker: ``Perfection (in design) is achieved not when there is nothing more to add, but rather when there is nothing more to take away.''
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18:53:03 <peter1138> dihedral, attack of the peters?
19:02:38 <brianH> Hi can someone help me spam #oftc? I need to come up with some good lines thanks
19:02:57 *** TheMask96 has joined #openttd
19:03:27 <PeterT> brianH: Type "/part #oftc K-Lind"
19:03:43 *** ajmiles has joined #openttd
19:03:48 <brianH> I'm not on it, when I get on it tjfontaine /kills me when I start to spam
19:04:05 <brianH> he's a jedi or something
19:04:05 *** DorpsGek sets mode: +o SmatZ
19:04:08 *** SmatZ sets mode: +b brianH!*@*
19:04:09 <planetmaker> maybe you should be killed here, too
19:04:13 *** brianH was kicked by SmatZ (User terminated!)
19:04:33 <SmatZ> hmm I have broken right mouse button :(
19:05:02 *** SmatZ sets mode: +b *!*@83TAAAM35.tor-irc.dnsbl.oftc.net
19:05:09 *** SmatZ sets mode: -b brianH!*@*
19:05:37 <SmatZ> when I hold it, it unpresses itself sometimes :(
19:05:58 <SmatZ> [20:03:21] <-> DorpsGek> kb #openttd brianH NO
19:06:08 <SmatZ> also, I need to find the correct command :-p
19:06:10 *** Xaroth_ is now known as Xaroth
19:06:46 <SmatZ> I tried kb, kickban, ban...
19:10:12 <Ammler> thought, the banned tor completely from this netwokr
19:16:08 *** HerzogDeXtEr has joined #openttd
19:18:00 *** SmatZ sets mode: +b *!*@*.tor-irc.dnsbl.oftc.net
19:18:06 *** SmatZ sets mode: -b *!*@83TAAAM35.tor-irc.dnsbl.oftc.net
19:18:41 <PeterT> That bans all tor clients? Clever... ;-)
19:21:12 <Eddi|zuHause> no, only the one ID
19:21:34 <Eddi|zuHause> for all tor users, it'd be *.tor-irc...
19:22:09 <PeterT> You mean like [14:17:57] * SmatZ sets ban on *!*@*.tor-irc.dnsbl.oftc.net?
19:22:55 <Eddi|zuHause> oh, i missed that line
19:24:16 <Eddi|zuHause> fuck tor... who needs privacy on the internet anyway... let those governments spy on all of us to protect us from the evil terrorists
19:24:18 <frosch123> how can someone even consider complaining about something in the beta4 thread if he is playing 0.7 :o
19:26:20 <PeterT> Spam from brianH in #oftc
19:27:13 <Eddi|zuHause> why would we care?
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19:35:15 <ccfreak2k> Ok, now when I load openttd, the cube reboots.
19:35:37 <Eddi|zuHause> sounds like windows ;)
19:39:02 <Rubidium> oh, you should give that version of OpenTTD to Capt. Picard :)
19:39:40 <Wolf01> I noticed that new railtypes was applied to trunk, good one
19:39:54 <Rubidium> frosch123: it's like consider complaining about your patched build on our bug tracker
19:39:56 <ccfreak2k> A spontaneous reboot usually indicates that the program returned from main(), but I can't debug it because it apparently occurs before debug inits.
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19:40:59 <Eddi|zuHause> (if you were using a sane build environment)
19:41:15 <ccfreak2k> Eddi|zuHause, I can't use gdb to run it.
19:41:51 <ccfreak2k> It has to run by itself, initialize the network adapter and then libdb.
19:44:11 <Eddi|zuHause> usually you start the debugger to load the program, not the program to load the debugger... really who designed that build environment?
19:44:40 <Rubidium> Eddi|zuHause: Nintendo?
19:44:44 <ccfreak2k> The program isn't running on my computer, though. It runs on the GameCube.
19:45:04 <Eddi|zuHause> yes, and you start the debugger on gamecube...
19:45:17 <Bluelight> Installing new router.. Will be back later.. :) Cya!
19:45:49 <ccfreak2k> Where would I start the debugger?
19:46:16 <Eddi|zuHause> yay... new router... means we'll get hit with another batch of "server still doesn't work" questions...
19:47:00 <Bluelight> If it don't work now I'll get crazy for sure..
19:55:45 <ccfreak2k> Rubidium, the software is homebrew and the toolchain is mingw.
20:06:47 <Eddi|zuHause> idea for loading: when not waiting for full load, and timetable has run out, how about limiting the number of loading steps to capacity/loading speed? this would prevent the "(passenger) trains wait for full load even though they shouldn't" problem
20:08:09 *** harerimich has joined #openttd
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20:20:35 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: rubidium * r19087 /trunk/src/ (60 files in 4 dirs): -Codechange: some typos in StringIDs
20:23:02 <PeterT> When trying to change my real name, I get the following error after clicking "Update Details": You need to fill in the Real Name field, and either the Email Address or Jabber ID field.
20:23:07 <glx> ccfreak2k: maybe you should try in emulator until it works
20:23:25 <PeterT> there is also no editable e-mail field, or any Jabber ID field
20:23:59 <ccfreak2k> glx, I know of only two emulators: one of them (Dolphin) doesn't run on my box due to lack of SSE2, and the other just doesn't work with anything but the trivial example programs.
20:31:19 *** Bluelight has joined #openttd
20:31:57 <Bluelight> Ok, what ports did the server use again? :p
20:32:18 <Rubidium> the ones as described in the multiplayer document?
20:32:50 <DorpsGek> Bluelight: OpenTTD uses TCP and UDP port 3979 for server <-> client communication, UDP port 3978 for masterserver (advertise) communication (outbound), and TCP port 3978 for content service, a.k.a. BaNaNaS (outbound)
20:42:12 <Bluelight> Ok,s erver running.. Crossing finger here now..
20:43:38 <Bluelight> Convinient with @ports lol
20:44:20 <Bluelight> @weather Oslo,Norway
20:44:35 <planetmaker> hint: try @kban :-P
20:46:11 <KenjiE20> I don't think dorps has the Suicide plugin loaded, sadly :P
20:46:28 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: rubidium * r19088 /trunk/src/lang/english.txt: -Fix: some typos/spelling errors in the base 'translation'
20:47:02 <PeterT> Oh, that brings back memories
20:50:51 *** Bluelight_ has joined #openttd
20:51:21 <Bluelight_> Damn, router restart.. Hope this is just some new hickup..
20:53:19 *** Bluelight_ is now known as Bluelight
20:54:31 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: rubidium * r19089 /trunk/src/ (rail_map.h window.cpp): -Codechange: some minor coding style
20:55:29 <Bluelight> Is there still corrupt data from my server?
20:57:06 <Bluelight> Is the name server: 88.106.223.196 ?
20:58:04 <Bluelight> As usual I get a lot of queries..
21:06:20 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: rubidium * r19090 /trunk/src/ (6 files in 3 dirs): -Codechange: some comment coding style fixes
21:08:13 *** Bluelight_ has joined #openttd
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21:08:46 <Bluelight_> Did someone write anything? :p My router kkeps hanging..
21:11:10 *** Bluelight_ is now known as Bluelight
21:12:32 *** Hackykid has joined #openttd
21:13:41 <peter1138> so you got another shit router?
21:14:05 <aber> its a special icemaker Router!!!
21:14:20 *** Progman has joined #openttd
21:17:24 <andythenorth> anything interesting happening?
21:17:54 <Bluelight> Grr.. Router problems.. But it's been working for a while now.
21:17:55 <Rubidium> depends on what is 'interesting'
21:18:18 <andythenorth> I see Rockets have been suggested.
21:22:23 *** Cybertinus is now known as Guest1608
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21:24:23 <Terkhen> that suggestion is like the spaceship in civilization
21:24:40 *** Bluelight_ has joined #openttd
21:24:56 <Bluelight_> God how slow the IRC network is on connecting..
21:25:10 <PeterT> I've never had any problems
21:25:14 <Bluelight_> But I actually had a player on my server for some weird reson..
21:25:29 <Bluelight_> He lost connection when router froze again..
21:26:23 <Rubidium> try placing it in the oven at 40 degrees C, maybe it doesn't freeze then
21:26:42 <Rubidium> if that doesn't help, whack it to 250 degrees C and it won't freeze anymore at all
21:28:43 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: rubidium * r19091 /trunk/src/ (aircraft_cmd.cpp roadveh_cmd.cpp ship_cmd.cpp train_cmd.cpp): -Cleanup: remove some unneeded zeroing
21:29:02 *** Rubix`` has joined #openttd
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21:34:57 <peter1138> you need to return that router
21:37:33 *** Devedse has joined #openttd
21:38:44 <Eddi|zuHause> # I don't want anything more
21:38:46 <Eddi|zuHause> # Than to see your face when you open the door
21:38:47 <Eddi|zuHause> # You'll make me beans on toast and a nice cup of tea
21:38:49 <Eddi|zuHause> # And we'll get a Chinese and watch TV
21:40:12 <Rubidium> peter1138: or a new ISP :)
21:40:38 <Eddi|zuHause> or a new game to worry about :p
21:51:31 <aber> my internet provider is quiet nice, just stupid traffic limits :(
21:52:11 *** Bluelight has joined #openttd
21:54:06 <Eddi|zuHause> (actually, i have never seen it in action)
21:54:54 <Rubidium> Eddi|zuHause: ofcourse it's not bad, it allows arbitrary applications to punch holes in your router's firewall. It's *the* perfect tool to help those poor spammers (they get paid awfully bad per spam mail)
21:56:03 <Eddi|zuHause> i didn't think you'd get rich by becoming a spammer ;)
22:00:25 *** Bluelight_ has joined #openttd
22:00:44 <Bluelight_> What is FEC Errors
22:00:48 <Bluelight_> I get those on the router..
22:01:12 <Bluelight_> And a few CRC Errors
22:01:18 <Rubidium> lmgtfy.com?q=fec+errors ?
22:01:40 <Eddi|zuHause> it means that you screwed up hopelessly
22:01:43 <planetmaker> ask the manufacturer.
22:02:31 <Rubidium> let me see... corrupt ATM headers, corrupt ATM data, corrupt IP packets... corrupt *everything*?
22:03:09 <Eddi|zuHause> and you wonder why corrupt things even get through to the master server :P
22:03:11 <planetmaker> good night Belugas
22:03:13 <jonty-comp> perhaps it's just your internet that's terrible
22:03:53 <Bluelight_> Hmm.. Nesodden where I live is like a huge rock..
22:04:01 <Bluelight_> So cables are hard to dig down..
22:04:30 <Eddi|zuHause> Bluelight_: you're being observed by $TLA and their trojan is misbehaving
22:04:48 <Bluelight_> But this router does not reconnect after it loose connection, it just sit there disconnected...
22:05:07 *** Bluelight_ is now known as Bluelight
22:05:25 <Eddi|zuHause> Bluelight: that's probably a setting
22:05:43 <planetmaker> a manual also works wonders
22:05:58 <Bluelight> Now I'm really sad.. I didn't know my connection sucked..
22:06:09 <Rubidium> just use the Alabamian solution for any problem
22:07:34 *** Nite_Owl has joined #openttd
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22:11:07 <Nite_Owl> ...and the failed compiles on the nightly was due to... (just out of curiosity of course)
22:12:44 <Nite_Owl> the only windows version listed for today is for 9x and ME
22:12:59 <Rubidium> guess I broke that then :)
22:13:55 <Nite_Owl> not a problem - like I typed just curious
22:14:49 <ccfreak2k> Does that mean today's pariah is Rubidium?
22:15:15 <Nite_Owl> as always I am sure it will all be back to normal soon enough
22:15:36 <Rubidium> MSVC is just so easy to break if you don't use it :)
22:16:27 <Eddi|zuHause> projects/generate?
22:16:33 <Rubidium> the 'only' reason to use MSVC for Windows is that it's crash log stuff is superior to GCC's
22:16:53 <Rubidium> Eddi|zuHause: nah, that won't fix it
22:17:31 <Eddi|zuHause> may i ask what's actually broken?
22:18:25 <Nite_Owl> there is a compile log somewhere but I forgot the link
22:20:53 <Rubidium> Eddi|zuHause: oh, just generally 'everything' :)
22:21:09 <Eddi|zuHause> oh, alright then ;)
22:21:19 <Eddi|zuHause> business as usual ;)
22:21:26 <Rubidium> or more specially, everything related to AI stuff
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22:23:22 <Rubidium> nasty thing is that a compile failure in MSVC still generates the .pdb so the CF thinks it went fine and doesn't throw a warning
22:23:30 <Rubidium> or notice about the failure of the compile
22:24:13 *** Bluelight has joined #openttd
22:24:23 <planetmaker> can't you check for the binary, Rubidium ?
22:24:42 <Bluelight> God what a crappy router.. Brand new crap..
22:25:01 <Rubidium> yeah, you can... but... that requires me knowing what to change and such
22:25:51 <planetmaker> :-) The usual "much work for little gain", I guess ;-)
22:26:29 <Rubidium> more the usual: should we do it now, or when we rewrite the thing because it doesn't behave as we like it to behave
22:28:13 <planetmaker> ah, that's the worse variant
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22:38:44 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: rubidium * r19092 /trunk/projects/ (5 files): -Fix (r19081): MSVC couldn't quite compile OpenTTD
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22:53:46 <PeterT> is it true that a cargodist+is2 build can have adverse affects on how the pax transfering works?
22:55:55 <PeterT> is cargodist>cargodest?
22:56:20 <PeterT> he thinks the same cdist+is2 problem wouldn't exist with cargodest
22:56:35 <Eddi|zuHause> they are fundamentally different
22:57:51 <Eddi|zuHause> they are fundamentally different
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23:03:24 <Rubidium> Eddi|zuHause: since when does it matter for comparison whether something is fundamentally different?
23:04:05 <Rubidium> Eddi|zuHause: saying "Windows Vista is better than PeterT" does make sense, right?
23:05:40 <Eoin> And windows Vista is shit
23:07:30 <Eddi|zuHause> Eoin: that's a totally independent issue ;)
23:07:56 *** Coco-Banana-Man has quit IRC
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23:13:26 <Eddi|zuHause> PeterT: cargodest is missing 1 year of maintenance work, and load balancing over separate routes
23:14:04 <Eddi|zuHause> cargodist isn't trunk material yet either
23:14:38 <Eddi|zuHause> so neither one is actually "good", but the tendency which is better is currently leaning towards cargodist
23:15:03 <ccfreak2k> What's the difference, anyway?
23:15:10 <ccfreak2k> Besides "one letter".
23:15:12 <Eddi|zuHause> this, however, has nothing to do with merging is2
23:15:30 <Eddi|zuHause> ccfreak2k: cargodest uses pathfinding for point-to-point connections
23:15:46 <Eddi|zuHause> ccfreak2k: cargodist is using an iterative algorithm to solve the network flow problem
23:16:25 <Nite_Owl> need to feed - later all
23:16:25 <Eoin> do i have someone ignored
23:16:28 <Eddi|zuHause> so cargodest, once it made up its mind what is the "shortest" route, will not reroute a cargo
23:16:31 <Eoin> or is Eddi|zuHause talking to himself?
23:17:03 <Eddi|zuHause> i am fairly certain that neither PeterT nor ccfreak2k are split personalities of myself
23:17:06 <ccfreak2k> Eoin, he was talking to PeterT, and then me.
23:17:26 <ccfreak2k> <PeterT> is cargodist better?
23:17:27 <Eoin> [22:57] <PeterT> is cargodist better?
23:18:35 <Eddi|zuHause> cargodest only reroutes cargo when the network changes due to player interaction (changing route of a vehicle)
23:18:54 <Eddi|zuHause> cargodist periodically reroutes cargo when routes are congested
23:19:53 <aber> Does somebody know how i check if i have build a universal binary. Can i force it to use ppc?
23:20:58 <Eddi|zuHause> aber: does "file" tell you anything?
23:24:32 <aber> i you habe to much precessing Power this is great.
23:27:12 <ccfreak2k> I wish that last sentence made sense. :(
23:29:43 <Eddi|zuHause> just sprinkle a few letters over it ;)
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23:38:58 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: smatz * r19093 /trunk/src/console.cpp: -Codechange: do not prefix console debug output with 'condbg', [console] is enough
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23:41:29 <Eddi|zuHause> planetmaker: you forgot h=1 ;)
23:42:26 <planetmaker> I knew something was missing, but couldn't be bothered to look it up ;-)
23:42:56 <Eddi|zuHause> you physicists are crazy anyway :p
23:42:58 <Rubidium> oh the thread where 'they' make the effort and I have the power?
23:43:16 <planetmaker> yes. Ignoring the units they do their calculation with
23:44:08 <Eddi|zuHause> times are just inverse distances ;)
23:44:34 <Eddi|zuHause> no, i miscalculated
23:44:38 <planetmaker> it's just another dimension ;-)
23:44:50 <Rubidium> times are just inverse divisions
23:44:51 <planetmaker> but I prefer the usual 3 and time separate.
23:45:16 <Prof_Frink> Time is an illusion.
23:45:27 <planetmaker> Rubidium: division is a fiction ;-) It's only a short hand for multiplication with the inverse ;-)
23:45:31 <Eddi|zuHause> v=s/t, so s=v*t, and [v]=1, so [s]=[t]
23:45:46 <SmatZ> aber: Has anyone really been far even as decided to use even go want to do look more like?
23:46:23 <SmatZ> planetmaker: I am using his language :-p
23:46:43 <planetmaker> alright, I don't seem to speak it :-P
23:47:12 <SmatZ> "i you habe to much precessing Power this is great." that really got me
23:47:19 <Eddi|zuHause> SmatZ: no, you are trying to imitate the language, but yield unintelligible rubbish
23:47:22 <aber> c'mon. i eat to much cookies. My keyboard is somewhat...
23:47:52 <Eddi|zuHause> i actually did understand what he meant ;)
23:47:57 <Rubidium> you have words on your keywords instead of characters?
23:48:08 <planetmaker> Eddi|zuHause: but indeed those conventions make many equations easy to write.
23:48:22 <Eddi|zuHause> you mean E=m? ;)
23:48:24 <planetmaker> But very difficult to get any "real" results from it
23:49:00 <Eddi|zuHause> well, it's easy, when you're done, you just add c's and h's until the units fit :p
23:49:07 <planetmaker> it's already very annoying to see people use cgs instead of SI
23:49:10 *** DaleStan has joined #openttd
23:49:42 <planetmaker> Eddi|zuHause: yeah... especially if things have units like g^(1/2) * s^(-2/3) etc.
23:50:22 <planetmaker> that's something I simply don't develop a sense of quantity for
23:50:50 <PeterT> Eddi|zuHause: Thanks for that info :-)
23:52:28 <Eddi|zuHause> planetmaker: i guess it's just a matter of getting used to...
23:53:01 <planetmaker> Eddi|zuHause: probably. But it's extra work if you need to compare to real experiments ;-)
23:54:36 <Eddi|zuHause> what kind of experiments does one do to create celestial objects? ;)
23:56:05 <planetmaker> small ones ;-) scaled-down
23:56:52 <Eddi|zuHause> make a newgrf :p
23:57:26 <Eddi|zuHause> planetmaker: how long until actual artificial planet construction? ;)
23:57:33 <planetmaker> hehe. I WILL propose it to andythenorth ;-)
23:58:14 <planetmaker> Eddi|zuHause: long time I guess. Except if you allow for computer experiments ;-)
23:58:19 <Eddi|zuHause> planetmaker: like collecting all the dirt from the asteroid belt in one place, and forming a planet out of it?
23:58:38 <planetmaker> wouldn't really make a nice or big planet. Too small ;-)
23:58:52 <Eddi|zuHause> throw the stuff on mars?
23:59:02 <planetmaker> Yeah, seems reasonable.
23:59:07 <planetmaker> Or mine it out just in place
23:59:41 <planetmaker> But we need one in geostationary orbit around Earth. For the celestial elevator ;-)
23:59:47 <Eddi|zuHause> how much combined mass is there in the asteroid belt, compared to earth?
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