IRC logs for #openttd on OFTC at 2010-02-03
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00:00:04 <Zuu> It tells you which engines that are freight or pax or both.
00:00:10 <Rubidium> and for the sake of disargument, all release threads are dead too :)
00:00:39 <Zuu> Some might be "light freight" which might be that they don't take coal wagons, but I'm unsure on that.
00:00:58 <Yexo> ok, I ment "no work on the project itself" is being done, not "nobody is posting in the topic"
00:01:02 <Zuu> It is still quite deterministic what wagons you can use.
00:01:18 <Zuu> At least from the viewpoint of a player.
00:01:21 <Diablo-D3> 2cc has too many engines that are pax only
00:01:30 <Diablo-D3> theres no way to tell just by looking at them
00:01:40 <Diablo-D3> and the 2cc website, although listing everything in it, doesnt list what they do
00:01:44 <Zuu> For an AI, I don't know if I would like UKRS or not, haven't done any rail AI stuff.
00:01:47 <Diablo-D3> so either you're some trainophile, or you're fucked
00:03:20 <Yexo> Diablo-D3: why not simply look at the speed, running/build cost and power?
00:03:39 <Diablo-D3> Yexo: because there are trains that look like pax but have very high power
00:03:55 <Yexo> so? what's the problem if you're using it for pax then?
00:04:04 <Diablo-D3> Im trying to pull freight
00:04:05 <Yexo> if you're not a trainophile you wouldn't care
00:04:18 <Yexo> then what's the problem if you're using it to pull freight?
00:04:24 <Diablo-D3> I'd care when I plunk down a million bucks for an engine and it cant pull freight
00:04:43 <Yexo> if it has enough power / tractive effort it can pull freight
00:04:52 <Yexo> if it can't, you can sell it immediatly for the same price
00:06:34 <Eddi|zuHause> you're certain that 2cc does not have a description of the engines in the buy window?
00:06:45 <Eddi|zuHause> i have never used 2cc set
00:06:50 <Diablo-D3> Eddi|zuHause: very sure
00:06:53 <SpComb> or perhaps I'm just confusing myself again
00:07:01 <Diablo-D3> theres nothing that indicates what it can pull
00:07:11 <Diablo-D3> Eddi|zuHause: with the metro replacement stuff, its easy: everything is pax
00:07:26 <Diablo-D3> but theres pax only trains in the normal train engine set
00:07:28 <Diablo-D3> and its annoying as hell
00:07:57 <Yexo> <Diablo-D3> thats retarded, <Diablo-D3> and its annoying as hell <- keep talking like that and you'll be without help in the future
00:08:07 <SpComb> you need to service a station at least every x ticks (3700) for it to have a positive effect on a town's ratings... it's the same 3700 ticks either way, though
00:08:15 <Yexo> I suggest you take down your tone a bit and try to post it in a constructive way
00:08:35 <Eddi|zuHause> and you should probably talk to the 2cc developers instead of us
00:08:48 <Diablo-D3> Eddi|zuHause: I dont really care if they fix it or not
00:08:51 <Diablo-D3> 2cc isnt part of openttd
00:09:00 <Diablo-D3> so lets see if ukrs is any better
00:09:41 <Eddi|zuHause> UKRS definitely has descriptions a la "heavy freight", "express passenger" etc.
00:09:45 <Yexo> <Diablo-D3> Eddi|zuHause: I dont really care if they fix it or not <- then stop complaining about it
00:09:56 <Eddi|zuHause> DBSet predates that feature...
00:10:04 <Diablo-D3> Yexo: if you keep that up I an just put you on ignore.
00:10:37 <Eddi|zuHause> DBSet has a description which engines are passengers only in the readme, though
00:10:39 <Zuu> Sure, though, arguing like that with a dev isn't really a good idea.
00:11:09 <Diablo-D3> Yexo: and if you must know, Im mentioning it in here because people recommended 2cc
00:11:20 <Diablo-D3> and its also the most downloaded pack in bananas
00:11:29 <Yexo> if people recommend it, it's probably because they like it
00:11:40 <Eddi|zuHause> it's obviously "so well tested" ;)
00:11:48 <Yexo> but which newgrf set you like always comes down to personal preference
00:11:54 <Zuu> The download counts on bananas are since they were last updated. Newly updated files will have lower count than old ones.
00:12:40 <Zuu> Not always of course, but as a general rule of thumb. Old unpopular files will still have low download counts of course.
00:12:42 <Yexo> problem is: if the count wasn't reset then if people update they're counted twice (or even more times)
00:13:07 <Diablo-D3> so count all downloads and divide by releases?
00:13:18 <Diablo-D3> or do avg downloads per day?
00:13:24 <Zuu> What about those who only update once a year?
00:13:30 <Eddi|zuHause> Diablo-D3: whatever you do, it won't be accurate
00:13:35 <Diablo-D3> Zuu: shouldnt effect it
00:13:39 <Diablo-D3> we need a stars system.
00:13:53 <Yexo> avg per day still has the problem that people that update are counted multiple times
00:14:05 <Eddi|zuHause> Diablo-D3: nice idea, start developing it.
00:14:13 <Rubidium> and stuff that gets frequent updates get screwed
00:14:24 <PeterT> neob has finally slowed down with his posted
00:14:25 <Rubidium> uhm, don't get screwed :)
00:14:33 <Rubidium> they get more downloads as people update their version
00:15:09 <Diablo-D3> hey guys, when I sort industries by production output, why are farms always first?
00:15:13 <Rubidium> e.g. Queue.BinaryHeap's downloads are quite low recently because "everybody" already has it
00:15:20 <Eddi|zuHause> Rubidium: but there's a point where that swaps. people don't download nightlies every day
00:15:33 <Diablo-D3> Rubidium: yeah, but you dont download that, you download it as part of an AI requirement
00:15:34 <PeterT> Eddi|zuHause: They don't?
00:16:00 <Rubidium> it just shows that average download counts are misleading
00:16:27 <Eddi|zuHause> that's why my initial comment was "it'll always be inaccurate"
00:17:34 <SpComb> is having a serviced station inside town zone zero really the primary mechanism for growing LA ratings?
00:17:58 <Yexo> having 5 stations in the town is the primary mechanism
00:18:14 <Yexo> where "in the town" is "having the town name in the station name"
00:18:15 <Eddi|zuHause> that's for growing the town
00:18:18 <Eddi|zuHause> not the town rating :p
00:18:24 <Yexo> oh, right, for growing the town indeed
00:18:30 <Diablo-D3> growing towns are dangerous imo
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00:19:20 <Yexo> <SpComb> is having a serviced station inside town zone zero really the primary mechanism for growing LA ratings? <- so the answer to that is yes
00:19:22 <Eddi|zuHause> SpComb: having a well-served local transport network gets the rating up fairly quickly
00:19:38 <Eddi|zuHause> and it's less destructive than the tree-cheat
00:19:53 <SpComb> yes, each and every station ups the rating by 12
00:20:08 <Eddi|zuHause> imho, the town should forbid chopping trees below a certain rating
00:20:09 <Diablo-D3> hey guys, is there a way to make openttd not put industries near each other?
00:20:28 * SpComb @kick PeterT if he could
00:20:50 <Zuu> SpComb: What does that CTCP PING mean?
00:20:50 *** PeterT was kicked by DorpsGek (PING)
00:20:57 <Yexo> Diablo-D3: have you tried disabling "economy->industries->industries of the same type can be built close to each other" and "allow multiple similar industries per town"?
00:21:09 <Eddi|zuHause> Diablo-D3: there are settings for "only one industry per town"
00:21:10 <Diablo-D3> Yexo: both are off.
00:21:26 <Yexo> then "only by creating a newgrf"
00:21:33 <SpComb> Zuu: harmless but annoying, there's really no reason to CTCP a channel
00:22:11 <Eddi|zuHause> "luckily" there are spam attacks at freenode, so i have all CTCP on ignore...
00:22:22 <SpComb> Eddi|zuHause: even CTCP ACTION? :)
00:22:48 <PeterT> Eddi|zuHause: You've seen the horrible spam there?
00:22:53 <Eddi|zuHause> if that refers to /me, then no, those are not CTCP
00:22:58 <__ln__> do we know what state PeterT is from?
00:23:08 <SpComb> those are CTCP messages as well
00:23:11 <Eddi|zuHause> __ln__: guess :p
00:23:17 <SpComb> but perhaps your client classifies them differently
00:23:26 <Zuu> __ln__: Somewhere up north east.
00:24:05 <Rubidium> does 'state hotel' count?
00:24:34 <__ln__> PeterT: ur repeating urself
00:24:57 <Eddi|zuHause> oh, i misread that somehow :p
00:25:07 <PeterT> "~Peter@c-71-233-211-64.hsd1.ma.comcast.net"
00:25:08 <Zuu> PeterT: sure "ur" is a word. - In Swedish ;-)
00:25:18 <Rubidium> Eddi|zuHause: there's a much better way to prevent from oddities from PeterT: /quit
00:25:31 <Eddi|zuHause> Ur is a city in mesopotamia
00:25:34 <Rubidium> it also helps with your connection problems!
00:25:53 <SmatZ> PeterT: Alt+F4 allowa you to hack into others' accounts!
00:26:19 * SpComb attempts to use effect/affect correctly
00:26:29 <Zuu> SmatZ: And the red switch at the back gives you turbo power?
00:26:52 <__ln__> i think dubya's dad has a summer place in maine, so... would that explain some of this stupidity
00:27:10 <SmatZ> Zuu: it works only for PeterT, sadly
00:27:12 <Diablo-D3> __ln__: they do, its in kennebunkport
00:27:37 <Eddi|zuHause> so "MA" stands for "Maine"?
00:28:09 <SmatZ> PeterT entered the turbo mode
00:28:19 <Rubidium> oh come on... just write it in full: Commonwealth of Massachusetts
00:28:28 <__ln__> PeterT: english only. "Massachusetts" is some native american language.
00:28:38 <SpComb> other interesting tidbits: the DC power connector for SMC router/wlan boxes fits into the DC power socket on Buffalo router/wlan boxes... pity that SMC is 9v, Buffalo 5v
00:28:49 <Zuu> SmatZ: Because going switching to 220 in a 110 volt country do not make the computer burn?
00:29:01 <PeterT> __ln__: What would you prefer
00:29:10 <Eddi|zuHause> Zuu: it makes you computer twice as fast! :p
00:29:11 <Diablo-D3> okay, so guys, can PBI change where industries are put?
00:29:25 <Diablo-D3> SpComb: yeah, I hate that
00:29:47 <SpComb> and apparently, buffalo router/wlan boxes don't boot up anymore after you feed them 9v
00:29:56 <Diablo-D3> SpComb: I have to be damned sure what DC does what, since almost all my equipment uses compatible barrel plugs
00:30:07 <Eddi|zuHause> Diablo-D3: PBI does have some own rules about industry placement, like some industries must be near a larger town
00:30:15 <Zuu> SmatZ: It's a bit old since newer computers do not have this nice switch anymore.
00:30:19 <Rubidium> hmm... petert can't even write the name of his own state correctly?
00:30:24 <Eddi|zuHause> but afair there's no way to change PBI's behaviour
00:30:53 <Diablo-D3> well, Im looking at a steel mill shoved up against a fuel depot
00:30:57 <PeterT> No, I am not the master genius that you are, Rubidium
00:31:09 <Eddi|zuHause> Rubidium: my experience is that native english speakers are the worst english spellers :p
00:31:49 <Eddi|zuHause> Diablo-D3: i fear there is nothing you can do about that
00:32:02 <Rubidium> no, those at Harvard are the master geniuses... just ask about the name of the bridge near MIT and the history of naming said bridge
00:32:12 <Diablo-D3> Eddi|zuHause: well, if ottd was realistic, trying to operate the steel mill would blow up the town :D
00:32:13 <Eddi|zuHause> except hacking the grf to check all surrounding tiles
00:32:25 <__ln__> PeterT: do us a favor and enlist in the marine corps
00:32:59 <Diablo-D3> SpComb: btw, as a site note, a lot of equipment can take ranges of input voltages
00:33:07 <Diablo-D3> SpComb: like, 5-12v or 5-9 or 3-6
00:33:10 <PeterT> Don't you mean corpses? :-P
00:33:22 <SpComb> Diablo-D3: I know, I find it a little weird that 9v would fry a 5v device, but apparently, it did
00:33:24 <Diablo-D3> PeterT: its pronounced "core"
00:33:33 <SpComb> Diablo-D3: it wasn't me myself that did this
00:33:46 <Diablo-D3> SpComb: could have just fried the voltage regulator
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00:34:07 <Rubidium> if we meant corpses we would've said Arlington
00:34:08 <Diablo-D3> or it was just shitty chinese shit
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00:35:27 <Diablo-D3> I dont think PBI does it quite right
00:36:24 <Eddi|zuHause2> Diablo-D3: there is absolutely no gameplay reason to make industries of unrelated chains check each other's locations
00:36:35 <Rubidium> but yeah, I guess I'm a master genius as I've been to Harvard, MIT and Stanford ;)
00:37:14 <Eddi|zuHause2> Rubidium: in that case, i was at cambridge ;)
00:37:38 <Rubidium> oh yeah, I've been to Cambridge (MA) too
00:39:09 <Eddi|zuHause2> no, i mean that one where isaac newton was [not at the same time] ;)
00:40:02 <Rubidium> for those who don't know, MIT *is* in Cambridge, MA
00:40:27 *** Eddi|zuHause2 is now known as Eddi|zuHause
00:41:01 <PeterT> Rubidium: Have you ever actually been to MassAchusetts?
00:43:50 * Rubidium thinks PeterT needs a refreshment course in deduction
00:55:00 * Rubidium wonders if PeterT could already deduce an answer to his question
01:00:46 <Eddi|zuHause> and the forum did it again...
01:01:05 <PeterT> you were about to post something?
01:01:20 <SpComb> Eddi|zuHause: eated your post?
01:01:57 <Eddi|zuHause> SpComb: well, it should post correctly when i refresh after the backup
01:06:06 <PeterT> does "rm *.orig -R ./" remove all .orig files from all directories?
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01:14:28 <Eddi|zuHause> i'd use "find -iname '*.orig' | xargs -d'\n' rm"
01:14:56 <PeterT> is that the equivalent of "&&"?
01:15:31 <Eddi|zuHause> means "take the output of command 1, and use that as input for command 2"
01:16:17 <PeterT> xargs: invalid option -- d
01:17:34 <Eddi|zuHause> --delimiter=delim -d delim Input items are terminated by the specified character. [...]
01:17:54 <PeterT> what's the max paste here?
01:18:08 <Eddi|zuHause> paste.openttd.org
01:21:11 <Eddi|zuHause> which version of xargs is that, then?
01:21:19 <Eddi|zuHause> xargs (GNU findutils) 4.4.0
01:21:53 <Eddi|zuHause> PeterT: anyway, the -d is useful for when you have spaces in filenames
01:34:47 <Diablo-D3> there is a reason why they should check
01:34:51 <Diablo-D3> its ugly and its hard to service things.
01:35:16 <Eddi|zuHause> Diablo-D3: i have not had that kind of problem...
01:35:44 <Eddi|zuHause> gnah... i'm starting to loathe dolphine..
01:36:18 <PeterT> Gamecube and Wii emulator?
01:36:33 <PeterT> I dislike anything that has to do with Nintendo
01:36:51 <Eddi|zuHause> what? no. new filebrowser of kde4
01:37:19 <Diablo-D3> btw, kde4 kind of sucks
01:37:51 <Eddi|zuHause> it doesn't even start with a K
01:39:14 <Diablo-D3> PeterT: the ipad nano one was better imo
01:44:55 <PeterT> You have an interesting response
01:46:49 <Eddi|zuHause> why bother me with that?
01:47:12 <Eddi|zuHause> i can ignore NekoMaster fine without your help...
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02:31:05 <Diablo-D3> is there a way to do the street stations optimally?
02:33:29 <Eddi|zuHause> optimal for what?
02:33:53 <Diablo-D3> so they dont choke themselves
02:34:03 <Diablo-D3> the ones that pass through are problematic.
02:34:41 <Diablo-D3> there doesnt seem to be a useful way to use many of them.
02:35:07 <Eddi|zuHause> they should balance the same way as rail stations
02:35:44 <Diablo-D3> if I put them side by side, ie, parallel entrances, long articulated vehicles choke the setup
02:35:51 <Eddi|zuHause> meaning they choose the free platform if multiple are available
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02:39:22 <Eddi|zuHause> man, i need to learn how to get through doors without the cats slipping in
02:40:43 <Diablo-D3> Eddi|zuHause: am I supposed to chain them together?
02:41:05 <Eddi|zuHause> Diablo-D3: try it
02:44:52 <Diablo-D3> that seems to work better
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02:46:13 <PeterT> is there a switch to turn the line numbers on for MSVC?
02:46:30 <PeterT> I don't want to count 1590 lines
02:57:39 <ccfreak2k> Tools > Options > Text Editor > C/C++ > Display Line Numbers?
02:59:41 <ccfreak2k> Remember that that only enables line numbers for C and C++ code.
03:18:37 <PeterT> sure, that's the only code I deal with ccfreak2k
04:08:26 <Diablo-D3> I wonder if its the difficutly level or one of the grfs I have installed
04:08:38 <Diablo-D3> but its really hard to start off with a train, as in, impossible
04:40:15 <SirSquidness> Diablo-D3: what difficulty level and GRFs are you playing?
04:40:38 <SirSquidness> I play on pretty relaxed settings and have my loan paid off within a few years
04:42:14 <Diablo-D3> actually, it just seemed to be 2cc
04:42:22 <Diablo-D3> 2cc has really really high prices
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07:51:27 <planetmaker> <Diablo-D3> 2cc has really really high prices <-- that depends. People who know how to read a readme know more ;-)
07:51:43 <planetmaker> and a wonderful good morning #openttd
07:51:52 <Terkhen> good morning planetmaker
07:57:17 <Diablo-D3> planetmaker: or I an just use uk whatever it is
07:58:55 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: peter1138 * r18989 /trunk/src/newgrf.cpp: -Codechange: [NewGRF] Initialise rail type map with default rail types.
08:02:19 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: peter1138 * r18990 /trunk/src/newgrf.cpp: -Codechange: [NewGRF] Add rail type map bounds checking to RailType[Change|Reserve]Info().
08:02:24 <planetmaker> Diablo-D3, but I never found 2cctrainset even with default prices too difficult, even starting only with trains
08:02:50 <planetmaker> \o/ @ peter1138 :-)
08:07:51 * roboboy ponders going outside
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08:12:14 <Diablo-D3> planetmaker: well, there were trains that were 1.3 million
08:12:17 <Diablo-D3> so thats kind of nuts
08:13:18 <planetmaker> Diablo-D3, yes, so what?
08:13:40 <planetmaker> Your first car won't be a Rolls Royce either, will it?
08:13:52 <planetmaker> start with the cheap engines. They're there
08:14:36 <planetmaker> and they get their job done.
08:14:53 <planetmaker> and also pay attention to the running costs. They may also vary a lot ;-)
08:16:32 <planetmaker> and it's a good example that one simply cannot do it right: one person complains it's too easy, the other it's too hard.
08:18:12 <planetmaker> there'd be no point in having all those trains with their different stats, if you could by straight away the fastest, most powerful engine which also had no running costs.
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09:06:29 <planetmaker> peter1138, do you plan to implement the tracks as overlays only, too within this rail types commit spree?
09:07:05 <planetmaker> it makes a difference when it comes to planning to actually programme the rail type newgrfs :-)
09:08:32 <planetmaker> and sprites could already be brought into the correct shape with this kind of knowledge in mind.
09:09:25 <planetmaker> one way or the other
09:09:44 <peter1138> yes, it will be overlays only, however there's nothing to stop you cheating and using a full tile as an overlay
09:10:25 <planetmaker> true that :-) But I'd like to avoid that mostly, if I can. It's bound to look funny in more occasions.
09:11:20 <planetmaker> after all, you can not cater for OpenGFX and original base set at the same time.
09:11:33 <ccfreak2k> Is this syntactically correct?
09:11:36 <planetmaker> you = newgrf author
09:11:41 <ccfreak2k> Rather, is this sane to do?
09:12:38 <planetmaker> so: overlays is good news :-) Thanks
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09:14:38 <peter1138> ccfreak2k, return 0;
09:15:16 <peter1138> you wouldn't write "x = (1) + (y);", for example
09:19:57 <ccfreak2k> Right, I wanted to make sure I wasn't going crazy here.
09:30:45 <Diablo-D3> ccfreak2k: return 0;
09:33:37 <ccfreak2k> It seems to be SDL's convention to use return(0);.
09:34:45 <Diablo-D3> C doesnt always have the sanest code.
09:35:02 <Noldo> maybe they want to make the return feel more functiony
09:35:36 <peter1138> odd coding styles are fine
09:35:53 <peter1138> it's when you have different coding styles within one project that gets hairy
09:35:56 <Diablo-D3> as long as -Wall -Wextra doesnt bitch, its not a problem
09:45:58 <peter1138> and just because your html&css validates means it's correct as well ;)
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09:59:59 <Diablo-D3> peter1138: gcc is pretty bitchy with a lot of stuff
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10:27:35 <ccfreak2k> icc is much more strict, at least by default.
10:33:58 <peter1138> hmm, loads of qt4 updates in lenny
10:34:07 <peter1138> The list of changes is not available yet.
10:34:07 <peter1138> Please try again later.The list of changes is not available yet.
10:34:08 <peter1138> Please try again later.
10:34:14 <peter1138> it nearly always says that
10:34:19 <peter1138> although only once. stupid mouse.
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11:37:28 * welshdragon is setting up his dedicated server
11:37:49 <welshdragon> There should be a wiki page on how to set one up...
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11:42:31 <devilsadvocate> is there any way to find out if any of my city stations accept a certain thing (vehicles) or if any cities have car dealerships (this is with ECS everything turned on)
11:42:34 <roboboy> what OS are you running?
11:42:53 <roboboy> welshdragon that question was aimed at you
11:43:31 <roboboy> try clicking the rightmost icon in the main toolbar
11:43:53 <roboboy> then click the station you want more info on devilsadvocate
11:44:06 <roboboy> I cant give you specific help
11:44:41 <roboboy> have you set OpenTTD up using the package?
11:45:08 <welshdragon> i can work the server (openttd -D) but with regards the openttd.cfg, can I just replace it with w/ever?
11:45:22 <roboboy> devilsadvocate: I can give you more specific help
11:45:38 <welshdragon> (in other words a config file that i've edited)
11:45:54 <roboboy> I think it loads the one in your user dir/openttd
11:45:55 <welshdragon> roboboy: com back to me after finishing with devilsadvocate
11:46:24 <devilsadvocate> roboboy, well, clicking on every station in the network is somewhat painful, and not very optimal given that most stations dont cover even half of a city
11:46:43 <devilsadvocate> i was hoping there was some sort of list of all stations accepting foo
11:47:07 <devilsadvocate> nevermind, i'll just take a new station and scroll around till i find it :)
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13:23:17 <ccfreak2k> Was SDL_sound.h replaced?
13:25:16 <Eddi|zuHause> why would it be?
13:26:11 <ccfreak2k> It seems to be missing from both my SDL binary package and the source I'm using.
13:32:10 <Wizzleby> ccfreak2k: libsdl or sdl-sound?
13:33:56 <Wizzleby> ccfreak2k: that might be the issue. exploring around my system, checking for SDL_sound.h, then seeing to what package it belonged.. seems it is part of sdl-sound, not libsdl
13:34:05 <ccfreak2k> I'm guessing it means the program in question needs SDL_sound, which appears to be a seperate project.
13:34:22 <ccfreak2k> Oh boy, another library to port!
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13:44:49 <ccfreak2k> Maybe I should turn in for the morning.
14:33:18 <tb2> Today .. we find out how stable 3G is in a train :)
14:33:45 <Eddi|zuHause> if it survives _under_ a train, i'm impressed :p
14:34:12 <tb2> most of the room under a train is pretty safe btw
14:34:13 <tb2> just a few inches which are harmful
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14:35:11 * Rubidium would say it's quite unlikely to hit 3G in a train
14:36:00 <Eddi|zuHause> on a full emergency stop? :p
14:36:33 <Rubidium> Eddi|zuHause: possibly, but that's not a stable 3G for a long time
14:36:56 <Eddi|zuHause> anybody fit with physics? a train running at 320km/h, with -3G acceleration, how far does it go until it stops?
14:37:04 <tb2> Eddi|zuHause: when hitting another train, maybe
14:37:21 <Rubidium> Eddi|zuHause: 3G = ~30m/s/s
14:37:37 <tb2> acceleration and -3G .. somewhere there is too much information :)
14:37:39 <Rubidium> so I'd say 3 seconds
14:38:22 <tb2> wow ... a moving train has a lower lag then a steady train :p
14:39:54 *** ChanServ sets mode: +o Bjarni
14:40:02 <Eddi|zuHause> @calc 320*3.6/3/9.81
14:40:02 <DorpsGek> Eddi|zuHause: 39.1437308869
14:40:20 <tb2> from 100ms to 3s :p Haha :)
14:40:30 <tb2> Stupid promises T-Mobile makes ... they are FAKE
14:40:32 <Eddi|zuHause> @calc (320*3.6/3/9.81)^2*3*9.81/2
14:40:32 <DorpsGek> Eddi|zuHause: Error: Something in there wasn't a valid number.
14:40:51 <Rubidium> Eddi|zuHause: km/h -> m/s = divide by 3.6, not multiply
14:41:34 <Bjarni> looks like Eddi|zuHause has some fun with some mobile device :P
14:41:58 <Eddi|zuHause> @calc (320*3.6/3/9.81)**2*3*9.81/2
14:41:58 <DorpsGek> Eddi|zuHause: 22546.7889908
14:42:14 <Eddi|zuHause> that can't be right
14:42:46 <Bjarni> I have a question for you guys. What is the command for printing the full path to . (in bash)?
14:42:58 <tb2> Eddi|zuHause: what are you TRYING to calculate? :p
14:42:58 <Eddi|zuHause> @calc (320/3.6/3/9.81)**2*3*9.81/2
14:42:58 <DorpsGek> Eddi|zuHause: 134.237760243
14:43:07 <Rubidium> tb2: obviously the distance
14:43:47 <tb2> taking an average is always much faster/eaiser :p
14:44:13 <Eddi|zuHause> average of what?
14:44:33 <tb2> Eddi|zuHause: 90 m/s, for 3 seconds. So the average distance will be 90 * 1.5
14:44:56 <__ln__> Bjarni: btw, i'll be visiting københavn airport briefly on 26th Aug.
14:45:00 <Eddi|zuHause> who said 3 seconds?
14:45:12 <Bjarni> btw how is the weather for you guys?
14:45:26 <Bjarni> I managed to end up being snowed in and forced to stay at home today :/
14:46:17 <tb2> whoho, station again, lag decreasing :)
14:46:38 <Bjarni> ohh now I get what this is about
14:46:48 <Eddi|zuHause> tb2: ever heard of "tunnel view"? ;)
14:46:51 <Bjarni> ping times while moving around ^^
14:46:59 <tb2> Eddi|zuHause: only tunnel vision
14:47:21 <Bjarni> tb2: I think it's the same thing if you translate correctly
14:47:37 <Eddi|zuHause> tb2: translation inaccuracy
14:48:00 <tb2> Eddi|zuHause: since when do you take me seriously? :p
14:48:23 <Eddi|zuHause> tb2: since you come disguised :p
14:48:30 <Bjarni> tb2: you mean we shouldn't take anything from you seriously?
14:48:37 *** tb2 is now known as TrueBrain_Alt
14:49:02 <Bjarni> I was wondering who the new guy were :P
14:49:19 <Rubidium> nah, we don't like the 'alt' for TrueBrain, the real TrueBrain is soo much more like the real TrueBrain :)
14:50:19 <TrueBrain_Alt> new == old with new name
14:50:28 <peter1138> Bjarni, isn't it you?
14:50:50 <peter1138> have you got an autoreplace rewrite for us? :D
14:51:01 <TrueBrain_Alt> Rubidium: I can only agree to disagree with you on that
14:51:09 <Bjarni> should I have such a thing?
14:51:13 <Eddi|zuHause> TrueBrain_Alt: we say "mit perwoll gewaschen" ;)
14:51:17 <peter1138> no, it's just traditional
14:51:27 <TrueBrain_Alt> Eddi|zuHause: but you germans are insane
14:51:46 <Bjarni> right now I'm messing around with robots (again)
14:51:48 <Eddi|zuHause> (comes from a commercial clip)
14:52:01 <Bjarni> getting them lost and then make them find back on their own
14:52:16 <Bjarni> first part is much easier than the latter one xD
14:52:48 <Eddi|zuHause> (basically goes like this: "this <cloth made from wool> is so soft, is this new? - no, it's washed with perwoll.")
14:52:56 <Rubidium> I thought getting a robot to their starting position was the easy part
14:53:23 <TrueBrain_Alt> Eddi|zuHause: we have that in Dutch too ... "Nieuw? Nee, robijn intensief!"
14:53:27 <Bjarni> I said it incorrectly >_<
14:53:39 <Rubidium> this->starting_position = GetPosition(); // Optimisation of the 'get to the starting position'-problem
14:54:08 <Bjarni> the point is that it is somewhere and has a plan for getting somewhere else and then the point is that whenever it miss a turn or whatever it gets lost
14:54:19 <Bjarni> it should correct this without human help
14:54:27 <Eddi|zuHause> a bjarniarium is a glass box where you keep bjarnis as pets? :p
14:54:43 <TrueBrain_Alt> maybe you should fix it that it doesnt get lost in the first place
14:54:44 <TrueBrain_Alt> sounds more useful to me
14:55:29 <Eddi|zuHause> Bjarni: so it should just notice that it is lost, and go back where it came from?
14:56:24 <Bjarni> TrueBrain_Alt: well yeah. The point is that all sorts of stuff can happen and it will be lost. One thing could be a person passing by, which confuses the visual sensors. The point is to detect such issues ASAP and compensate to get back to the original plan
14:57:20 * Rubidium wonders why we go through all the hassle of making robots again :)
14:57:58 <Bjarni> I do for personal reasons
14:58:23 <Bjarni> specially to finish my master thesis :)
14:58:40 <Bjarni> why you guys wants to come up with something... I have no idea
14:59:38 <Bjarni> through ideas are welcome. However so far no useful ideas have appeared though
15:00:04 <TrueBrain_Alt> I just would like to say: SCHIEDAM!!!
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15:00:26 <Rubidium> Bjarni: ask Zoe Graystone; she has experience with sentient robots ;)
15:00:29 <TrueBrain_Alt> k, going to logoff, this was enough fun ... IRC held through the trip .. I am amazed :) Bubye!
15:00:44 <Rubidium> good luck in Schiedam
15:01:41 <Bjarni> I'm not sure I want the robot to be sentient... seems pretty scary if it started to act on it's own
15:02:59 <Bjarni> looked potentially scary as it navigated around the darkness the other night (yes, night) with only LED lights on it
15:03:05 <planetmaker> Bjarni, just make sure you teach them the three (or four) fundamental laws of robotics well ;-)
15:04:03 <Bjarni> I wonder about those laws. How would any robot comply with those if a nuclear missile is so advanced that it could be considered a robot?
15:05:14 <Bjarni> or another example. Somebody made a robot to remove unexploded mines from the sea. It dives and land on top of it and detonates a bomb it carries
15:05:39 <Bjarni> works really well... but it fails to comply with the law not to harm robots and it kills itself in the process
15:06:46 <__ln__> Bjarni: it works because the previous law states that the robot must obey humans
15:07:03 <__ln__> and the not harming itself law only applies if it doesn't conflict with the previous ones
15:07:21 <glx> [15:52:52] <Eddi|zuHause> (basically goes like this: "this <cloth made from wool> is so soft, is this new? - no, it's washed with perwoll.") <-- here it's called "mir laine"
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15:24:39 <Shapeshifter> How can I make trains longer? I have a "Stanley-Morel" refitted for coal mining but it's only two carriages long which is a bit annoying. the train stations are 5 units long
15:24:44 <Shapeshifter> can't I make it longer?
15:25:39 <Shapeshifter> there's 270 tons of coal waiting and the train only takes 2x9tons, that's even less then what a coal truck carries (20 tons)
15:25:40 <Yexo> buy a few coal wagons and attach them?
15:26:13 <Shapeshifter> Yexo: how? should I buy "coal truck"s?
15:26:23 <Shapeshifter> I mean, it's called a truck even though it's under the train depot stuff
15:26:27 <Yexo> no, in a train depot you buy a coal wagon
15:26:33 <Yexo> oh, maybe it's called coal truck
15:26:37 <Yexo> depends onthe newgrf probably
15:26:38 <Shapeshifter> ah yes, it worked
15:27:53 <glx> using a passenger train for coal is silly anyway
15:28:29 <Shapeshifter> muuch better. Well, what else? I clicked on "cargo type Coal" and then it showed that train
15:28:45 <Shapeshifter> there's nothing else there when I click on coal, except the coal truck, which can't go by itself, can it?
15:29:33 <glx> of course, engines don't transport anything so they are not shown
15:29:50 <Yexo> Shapeshifter: you could use an engien that doesn't hold any cargo
15:33:35 <Diablo-D3> most of them just are pax though
15:41:50 <Shapeshifter> And how can I give orders to all vehicles in a group?
15:43:13 <Shapeshifter> nevermind I'm reading the wiki
15:43:17 <Shapeshifter> everything's there ^^
15:44:34 * Bjarni picks up a large trout and slaps Shapeshifter
15:45:09 <Rubidium> why all that agression?
15:45:22 <Bjarni> if it's not in the wiki then it's not worth knowing (or it should get added)
15:47:29 <Bjarni> <Rubidium> why all that agression? <-- it's even less than if you turn on the TV and yet you complain?
15:47:46 <Bjarni> did you call the TV channels to complain there as well?
15:49:21 <Bjarni> complaining about TV... something great happened here
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15:49:53 <Bjarni> they had a weekly documentary about health and diseases where a doctor answered questions and stuff
15:50:16 <Bjarni> they showed all kind of stuff where they expected that some people would complain for being too bold, but nobody complained
15:50:43 <planetmaker> all people act like shit. So why not ourselves?
15:50:50 <Rubidium> Bjarni: I rarely watch TV, like less than 1 hour a week
15:50:55 <Bjarni> when they showed a video of heart surgery and nobody complained then they thought they couldn't get complains
15:51:09 <Bjarni> but then it happened... they did one thing and they were drowning in complains
15:51:24 <Bjarni> they actually had a small mountain of letters with people complaining
15:51:30 <Bjarni> and can you guess why? :)
15:51:58 <Rubidium> because it was axed by management
15:52:55 <Bjarni> the doctor went to see somebody and we saw him drive in his car and he wasn't wearing a seat belt
15:55:03 <Shapeshifter> oh dear, signals, this looks complicated
15:55:09 <Shapeshifter> got to be fun ^^
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15:58:48 <lennard> TrueBrain: utwente mirror thingy will be in maintenaince tomorrow morning from around 0900
16:00:41 <Shapeshifter> mhh. no I don't really get it. I have two trains, and I have a rail layout like this >----< meaning that at each end there is one branching and in the middle there's a shared bit of rail
16:00:45 <Rubidium> lennard: where did they announce that?
16:01:04 <lennard> we didnt, thats what I'm doing :P
16:01:17 <Shapeshifter> what do I need as lights? 4 block signals?
16:01:43 <Shapeshifter> Can't two trains be on the same stretch if they're going in the same direction?
16:05:26 <SpComb> Shapeshifter: they can if you use path signals ina sufficiently clever fashion
16:05:59 <SpComb> Shapeshifter: but even that is limited to two trains, since there's no full ahead-reservation
16:11:45 <blathijs> Ey, a lennard here :-)
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16:16:03 <Bjarni> <Shapeshifter> Can't two trains be on the same stretch if they're going in the same direction? <-- two trains can't even be in the same block in real life which means it's quite realistic that we need signals between the trains
16:17:02 <Bjarni> some countries like Sweden have decided to have an empty track between moving trains. This way a train has to pass two red signals to cause an accident.
16:17:28 <Bjarni> the only thing you can do to increase traffic is the same as in real life: make the blocks shorter
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16:18:12 <Bjarni> always fun to show up with a 120 meter train and somebody expects you to stay in a 90 meter block :P
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16:19:11 <Bjarni> or as a driver once told me: he was told to be in a 90 meter block when he was driving a freight train, which were so heavy that it had to use two locomotives
16:19:25 <Bjarni> which means it was somewhat much longer than 90 meters
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16:27:52 <thingwath> Of course it's possible to enter an occupied section. Sometimes. Somewhere. :)
16:33:38 <thingwath> I don't really know how often people do that.
16:35:14 <Bjarni> I did it because the station was being rebuilt
16:35:23 <Bjarni> meaning it only had one track to enter
16:35:36 <thingwath> That's another case, I think.
16:36:01 <Bjarni> oh and another time due to a lighting strike
16:36:28 <Bjarni> one station went dead and then somebody decided to take out quite a lot of trains because capacity though a dead station is limited
16:36:44 <Bjarni> all those trains ended up taking up all of the tracks at the end of the line
16:37:10 <Bjarni> meaning I ended up entering a track which were already in use
16:37:19 <thingwath> Regulations are quite different all around the world :/
16:37:21 <Bjarni> good thing it was the long platform :)
16:37:37 <Bjarni> it was actually just long enough to handle both trains
16:38:25 <Bjarni> <thingwath> Regulations are quite different all around the world :/ <-- yeah... and nobody managed to figure out a great system >_<
16:38:43 <Bjarni> either they are unsafe or they are so safe that it prevents driving
16:38:47 <thingwath> One size doesn't fit all, I guess.
16:39:15 <Bjarni> no but... there are a lot of stupid stuff
16:39:35 <Bjarni> like when allowing passing red signals
16:39:48 <Bjarni> it's potentially quite dangerous
16:40:13 <Bjarni> meaning you should carefully think about which conditions you include to prevent a green signal
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16:40:37 <Bjarni> like here we have stations where you can't get a green signal when leaving it if there is a broken road crossing
16:41:15 <Bjarni> meaning if the crossing is broken, then the train takes so much care not to hit cars that it loses the ability to see if the block it enters is actually free
16:41:25 <Bjarni> this is a problem on single tracked lines
16:42:12 <Bjarni> this is one of the things I refer to as being so safe that you can't actually drive
16:42:13 <thingwath> Aren't there special crossing signals?
16:42:46 <Bjarni> but years ago some driver just looked at the green signal and then he hit a car
16:43:05 <Bjarni> now the driver can see both crossing signals and the "normal" signal
16:43:13 <PeterT> plane speed factor cannot be set during network games?
16:43:48 <Bjarni> oh we also have cases of drivers who sees the crossing signals only and then they leave the station and cause a headon collision :x
16:44:15 <Bjarni> PeterT: I think you have to set it before starting, but I'm not 100% sure
16:44:27 <PeterT> I used to be able to set it
16:46:14 <thingwath> I'd expect cab signalling on most of the lines, in Sweden. :)
16:46:17 <Bjarni> because of those accidents where drivers only checks crossing signals they changed the setup to make the crossings only show clear in the direction the train is coming from (they used to be simple and show both ways nomatter where the train would be)
16:46:27 <PeterT> "<PeterT> ~rcon **** set plane_speed 1
16:46:27 <PeterT> <Clan-server> ERROR: This command/variable is not available during network games."
16:47:32 <Bjarni> <thingwath> I'd expect cab signalling on most of the lines, in Sweden. :) <--- those things cost an arm and a leg and are usually applied to main lines
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16:48:02 <Bjarni> this means the small single tracked lines in rural areas often lacks cab signals
16:48:35 <Bjarni> I'm serious. You can buy a decent apartment for the price it costs to fit a locomotive with cab signals o_O
16:51:12 <Rubidium> Bjarni: not having them costs lives, but apparantly body parts are valued higher than lives
16:51:22 <Bjarni> this is one reason why railroads in Europe have issues. Say you take a freight train from Malmö (southern Sweden) to Hamburg (Northern Germany), then the train needs cab signals for Sweden, Denmark and Germany. Also it has to be able to switch between the systems flawlessly and prevent say the Swedish one wakes up in Denmark and hits the brake "because the track fails to send data"
16:51:29 <Shapeshifter> mhh, I see, thanks for the input
16:51:55 <Bjarni> also Sweden and Germany uses 16 2/3 Hz 15 kV catenary while Denmark use 50 Hz 25 kV
16:52:07 <thingwath> There are worse cases. :)
16:52:27 <Bjarni> meaning the train has to be able to handle both and switch while in speed
16:52:45 <Bjarni> <Rubidium> 1.5 kV! <-- yeah, that's a serious issue
16:53:04 <Bjarni> NL freight draws 4 kA from 1.5 kV catenary o_O
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16:53:41 <Rubidium> you know that there's one advantage of low voltage catenaries?
16:53:47 <thingwath> At least they don't have much hills. :)
16:53:58 <Bjarni> I saw a multiple voltage locomotive once. It could handle 750 V, 1500 V (both DC) and 20 kV at both 50 and 60 Hz
16:54:07 <Rubidium> it gets hot enough to not worry about ice on the catenaries :)
16:54:20 <Shapeshifter> afaik spain has wider tracks
16:54:32 <thingwath> Well, DC engines are much simpler. In theory.
16:54:36 <Bjarni> <Rubidium> it gets hot enough to not worry about ice on the catenaries :) <-- not true. The Danish 1500 V lines still have problems
16:54:49 <Bjarni> they are only used for EMUs though, not diesel
16:54:55 <Rubidium> Bjarni: then they don't use them enough :)
16:55:56 <thingwath> Lightning effects are so niiiice.
16:56:34 <Bjarni> somebody talked about replacing the 1.5 kV system with 25 kV in order to make all catenary in the country compatible
16:56:45 <Bjarni> all the EMUs needed to be replaced anyway
16:56:55 <Bjarni> they ended up not doing it though
16:57:02 <thingwath> Slovakia has both 3 kV and 25 kV systems, planing to replace the first one with the latter.
16:57:05 <Bjarni> and now we are still stuck with two incompatible systems
16:58:18 <Bjarni> it would have been so easy to switch. The new EMUs have a DC->AC converter and AC engines. All it needed to do was to add an AC-> DC converter and it would be able to handle both AC and DC
16:58:32 <thingwath> That's not that easy, unfortunately.
16:58:48 <Bjarni> they feared trying to use 25 kV as 1,5 kV by accident
16:59:25 <Rubidium> Bjarni: well.. the government introduced that problem to the NL over the last decade too
16:59:32 <Bjarni> <thingwath> That's not that easy, unfortunately. <--- it is if you plan ahead. They were custom designing new trains and they could have included it
17:00:08 <Bjarni> now they decided to replace the cab signal system to ETCS (the EU standard)
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17:00:28 <Bjarni> guess what: the one they install on the 25 kV system and the 1.5 kV system aren't compatible
17:00:39 <Bjarni> not that it has anything to do with the voltage
17:00:53 <Bjarni> they just picked different systems
17:01:25 <Bjarni> even better: the new system can't handle trains without cab signals
17:02:07 <Bjarni> meaning the new system where switching systems should be less of a problem is in fact introducing new switching issues
17:04:36 <Bjarni> btw I don't get why it's a good idea to introduce a system where a cab system is needed to drive
17:04:58 <Bjarni> it means that whenever it breaks, then the train is stuck
17:05:49 <thingwath> Fewer problems with EM compatibility? (I don't know how does it work.)
17:07:07 <thingwath> Which ETCS level is that?
17:12:31 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: rubidium * r18991 /trunk/src/network/ (network_content.cpp network_content.h): -Codechange: simplify memory management of DownloadSelectedContent
17:15:47 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: rubidium * r18992 /trunk/src/network/ (network_content.cpp network_content.h): -Codechange: move the file opening/closing out of the content download function
17:26:07 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: rubidium * r18993 /trunk/src/ (core/smallvec_type.hpp newgrf_sound.cpp): -Codechange: allow allocating multiple items in a SmallVector with one call.
17:33:20 <Eddi|zuHause> sooo... the noise machine is finally on the way back...
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17:46:52 <Shapeshifter> this is driving me nuts. my trains keep taking wrong turns for no obvious reason. they keep driving into depots or try going ways where they're not supposed to go
17:48:29 <Rubidium> wrong signals, missing pieces of (junction) rail, unreachable destinations, ...
17:48:38 <Eddi|zuHause> missing catenary
17:48:43 <SpComb> Shapeshifter: there's many possible reasons
17:48:45 <Rubidium> (wrong signals = wrong signals or wrongly placed signals)
17:48:49 <Eddi|zuHause> misplaced orders
17:49:21 <Eddi|zuHause> trains go for service every few months
17:50:16 <Shapeshifter> I think it's because they try going to the wrong end of their route while heading the other way
17:50:22 <Shapeshifter> so they go into depots to turn around
17:51:08 <Eddi|zuHause> then they wait too long at signals and turn around
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18:20:23 <Shapeshifter> nah I don't get it :| http://stuff.moritzg.ch/openttfwrong.png why does the steel-train in the middle turn left there? it's supposed to go to Aberdinghattan Valley, that's where I've sent it! And that's in its schedule, it has the little ">" at "go to aberdinghattan".
18:20:29 <Shapeshifter> why on earth does it do that >.<
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18:21:31 <Shapeshifter> why doesn't it wait at the signal.
18:22:29 <Shapeshifter> why does it decide to just go some random way?
18:23:17 <SpComb> Shapeshifter: wrong signals
18:23:24 <SpComb> Shapeshifter: read up on how two-way block signals work
18:26:07 <SmatZ> Shapeshifter: "set firstred_twoway_eol 0" or so
18:26:51 <SmatZ> "set rail_firstred_twoway_eol 0" actually, if you are using YAPF
18:26:52 <Eddi|zuHause> that's one of the settings that should be off by default
18:27:00 <Eddi|zuHause> but i don't say that the first time...
18:27:43 <Rubidium> Eddi|zuHause: then WHERE is your patch for table/settings.h?
18:28:25 <Eddi|zuHause> err... possibly in www.informatik.uni-halle.de/~krause/settings1.diff
18:29:34 <Rubidium> hmm, can't remember that one
18:30:18 <Eddi|zuHause> i can post it to flyspray, if you want
18:30:33 <Eddi|zuHause> and search for the discussion in irc about objections that people had
18:31:21 <Rubidium> hmm, there was a discussion about it when I was battling someone DOSing the server
18:31:47 <Eddi|zuHause> that might be an appropriate distraction ;)
18:38:21 <Shapeshifter> basically, how do I tell a train to go left or right at a junction?
18:39:12 <Eddi|zuHause> to disallow a route for trains, use one way signals (the most right one, with the red square)
18:39:34 <Hirundo> Trains prefer to avoid routes that pass signals backwards
18:41:27 <Shapeshifter> So I was usually thinking of some sort of "bus" system (as in computer science bus), with one single main track that can only connect two branches at a time
18:41:37 <Shapeshifter> I guess this is not suitable for trains :|
18:42:37 <Eddi|zuHause> err... the definition of "bus" that i know specifically includes addressing more than one device...
18:42:38 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: rubidium * r18994 /trunk/ (11 files in 6 dirs): -Change: content mirroring support (based on work by TrueBrain).
18:43:31 <Eddi|zuHause> so now also bananas is on the mirrors?
18:43:36 <Shapeshifter> Eddi|zuHause: but only transferring data to one at a time
18:43:45 <PeterT> we can upload bananas stuff via mirrors or soemthing?
18:44:22 <Eddi|zuHause> PeterT: no, mirroring is for balancing the downloads. does not change upload in any way
18:44:33 <PeterT> I still don't understand this
18:45:25 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: translators * r18995 /trunk/src/lang/ (greek.txt hebrew.txt russian.txt):
18:45:25 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: -Update from WebTranslator v3.0:
18:45:25 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: greek - 8 changes by fumantsu
18:45:25 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: hebrew - 17 changes by dnd_man
18:45:25 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: russian - 6 changes by Lone_Wolf
18:45:34 <Eddi|zuHause> ever been to a supermarket?
18:48:47 <Eddi|zuHause> there you have more than one cashier
18:48:55 <Eddi|zuHause> each one of these represent a mirror
18:49:05 <PeterT> Why does that need to be instilled into OpenTTD?
18:49:13 <PeterT> is OpenTTD the supermarket?
18:49:16 <Eddi|zuHause> you go to the cashier where the queue is the shortest
18:49:23 <Eddi|zuHause> so you don't have to wait as much
18:49:34 <Eddi|zuHause> the supermarket is the content download window
18:49:42 <Eddi|zuHause> the cashier is the download button
18:54:45 <SmatZ> Eddi|zuHause: so now there are multiple "Download" buttons, you can choose one of them? nice
18:55:07 <Eddi|zuHause> SmatZ: not exactly, the choosing is automatic ;)
18:56:29 <Eddi|zuHause> SmatZ: obviously, not every analogy is fully accurate
18:56:46 <Eddi|zuHause> there are also mirror systems, where you can choose yourself...
18:57:50 <SmatZ> that "download button is a cachier" analogy was strange :)
18:58:35 <Eddi|zuHause> usually people like my analogies ;)
19:07:27 <SpComb> multiple download buttons sounds fun
19:07:49 <Rubidium> and we call it: grfcrawler
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19:27:45 <Eddi|zuHause> now i'm totally lost...
19:27:45 <PeterT> I can still build when the server is paused from a connecting client, is that a bug?
19:27:59 <PeterT> Not just build anything though
19:28:03 <PeterT> only build trains in the train window
19:28:11 <SmatZ> PeterT: design decision
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20:11:15 <Shapeshifter> people don't like my trains.
20:11:52 <Shapeshifter> I've reduced the servicing interval to like 1/4 of the default and there are never too many goods waiting at the station.
20:12:01 <Shapeshifter> still, I'm always poor or mediocre.
20:13:02 <frosch123> let trains wait for full load
20:33:39 <Shapeshifter> http://stuff.moritzg.ch/openttfsad.png for example here, there's two train driving clockwise. they almost don't have any waiting time at the lights, and I've set the interval to 50 days. Also, I can't set "full load", it's greyed out. they break down almost never, one train takes 8 wagons of grain, the other 8 wagons of coal. yet, the rating is constantly dropping.
20:34:19 <Shapeshifter> ratings on both sides actually, both grain and coal.
20:35:27 <Shapeshifter> ah. greyed out because I have to click on a destination first.
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20:43:11 <SmatZ> Shapeshifter: or use timetables, so trains are longer in the station
20:43:33 <SmatZ> but for that short distance, even 3 wagons would be too much
20:43:38 <SmatZ> depends on production of course
21:05:02 <Shapeshifter> SmatZ: but, production goes up if the rating is good, right?
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21:15:45 <TrueBrain> lennard: tnx for letting me know, I will put NL out of rotation for now
21:26:57 <TrueBrain> glx: where is your script?
21:27:18 <glx> it's here, but this command was unknown :)
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21:35:05 <Eddi|zuHause> __ln__: ¡Solo inglés!
21:35:57 <PeterT> Eddi|zuHause: It would be Solamente ingls!
21:36:23 <Eddi|zuHause> that's way too long :p
21:36:25 <Terkhen> "¡Solo inglés!" is correct.
21:36:42 <PeterT> doesn't "solamente" mean "only"
21:37:09 <PeterT> just like finalmente == finally
21:37:12 <Eddi|zuHause> __ln__: no, emphasis is on the first o
21:37:22 <Eddi|zuHause> doesn't need accent
21:37:28 <PeterT> mente is the equivalent of "-ly"
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21:37:50 <__ln__> Eddi|zuHause: Mi diccionario dice que "sólo".
21:38:10 <Eddi|zuHause> pherhaps... my spanish class was over 10 years ago
21:39:37 <__ln__> Eddi|zuHause: but so was your english class as well?
21:39:41 <Eddi|zuHause> __ln__: "solo adv. también: sólo"
21:40:12 <Terkhen> PeterT: besides other meanings, solo means "only" too
21:42:30 <PeterT> Terkhen: Ok, thanks for explaining
21:45:34 <TrueBrain> "Eram quod es, eris quod sum"
21:45:57 <__ln__> am i correct that the preterito indefinido (like "he visto una película") refers to events that happened today, or something like that?
21:46:00 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: rubidium * r18996 /trunk/src/ (3 files in 3 dirs): -Fix (r18993, r18994): MSVC 64 bits had somethings to complain about
21:46:27 <PeterT> __ln__: I don't think that is correct
21:46:40 <__ln__> if it even is called preterito indefinido... maybe it's not!
21:46:45 <PeterT> the preterite refers to something that happened before
21:47:02 <PeterT> like "escrib en 'IRC' por dos horas"
21:47:10 <PeterT> means "I wrote in IRC for 2 hours"
21:47:30 <__ln__> hmm, i actually meant pretérito perfecto.
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21:48:26 <Rubidium> PeterT: if you're so good in languages, what does "hou je waffel" mean?
21:48:33 <Noldo> when is the time to start whining about the fall of "english only" ? ;)
21:48:49 <PeterT> Rubidium: I wasn't bragging...
21:49:51 <PeterT> the only reason I know that is because I study Spanish
21:50:41 <PeterT> Rubidium: it means "love you shuts"
21:50:47 *** ChanServ sets mode: +v tokai
21:51:21 <dih> petert: you are 14? right?
21:51:22 <Rubidium> PeterT: do you really think I would ask something that Google translate translates properly?
21:51:51 <dih> or do you have a school class once week for 45 mins?
21:52:14 <PeterT> dih: A school class every day for 45 minutes
21:52:42 <Noldo> dih: what have you been up to lately?
21:52:45 <Nite_Owl> Too many questions ??
21:53:07 <Rubidium> Nite_Owl: nah, mommy called for dinner
21:53:07 <Eddi|zuHause> dih: in the USA, spanish is often the first foreign language
21:53:43 <Eddi|zuHause> that probably depends on the school ;)
21:53:57 <dih> and what you define with 'study'
21:54:18 <Eddi|zuHause> dih: also, spanish is the largest minority language in the USA [especially in the southwest and florida]
21:54:19 <dih> Noldo, getting a job, visiting my sick dad,
21:54:45 <__ln__> dih: more than 30 million spanish speakers in the USA
21:55:09 <dih> yeah - and all germans can speak english too - ha! ha!
21:55:24 <dih> i just wanted to add 'weight' to the word 'study'
21:55:49 <__ln__> what word would you use then?
21:55:53 <Eddi|zuHause> dih: the english word "study" is way lower than the german "studieren"
21:56:03 <dih> "have spannish at school"? :-P
21:56:30 <Rubidium> Eddi|zuHause: then what do you think a "studiedag" (study day) means?
21:57:30 <Lex> what does make: *** [all] Error 2 mean?
21:57:42 <Eddi|zuHause> Lex: means there were two errors
21:57:58 <Rubidium> Lex: depends on the context
21:58:05 <Eddi|zuHause> Lex: the kind of error should be in the previous lines
21:58:14 <Lex> I'm trying to compile the latest version off the svn
21:58:29 <dih> the latest version of svn? :-D
21:58:54 <Rubidium> dih: the "the" is important
21:58:59 <Eddi|zuHause> dih: some people actually use "off" the right way...
21:59:28 <dih> i was being silly - odd that you could not tell :-P
21:59:56 <Eddi|zuHause> Lex: don't listen to him, he is being silly obviously...
22:00:05 <Lex> off works in my accent, but if you're going to be fussy.
22:00:11 <glx> off was right in this context :)
22:00:25 <dih> Lex - don't pay attention to that
22:00:37 <Eddi|zuHause> Lex: "configure: error: no liblzo2 detected"
22:00:44 <Rubidium> and because configure failed the makefile wasn't regenerated, so the makefile tried to run configure again, gone in a infinite loop and broke
22:00:44 <Eddi|zuHause> that's the relevant line
22:01:15 <Lex> Eddi|zuHause, "WARNING: OpenTTD doesn't require liblzo2, but it does mean that" is the next line though
22:01:28 <Ammler> Avignon sur la pont...
22:01:36 <Eddi|zuHause> Lex: read the sentence in full
22:01:53 <Eddi|zuHause> Lex: you need not only the library, but also the development files for the library
22:02:09 <glx> Ammler: grammar is important :)
22:02:12 <Eddi|zuHause> so not only "lzo" but also "lzo-devel" [or similar]
22:04:12 <glx> --without-liblzo2 should work too
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22:04:32 <Eddi|zuHause> Lex: people have been reporting trouble getting liblzo to work on osx
22:04:53 <Lex> It never used to ask for it
22:05:01 <Eddi|zuHause> the dependency is new
22:05:17 <glx> before it used minilzo directly in the source
22:05:30 <Lex> then why does it specify that you can't load old games without it? o_O
22:05:48 <glx> old games are compressed with lzo
22:06:10 <glx> we just replaced minilzo with the extern lib it came from
22:06:13 <Lex> oh well. I couldn't get it to work even after installing all ports I could find related to lzo so sod it. I haven't got any old saves anyway.
22:06:14 <Eddi|zuHause> Lex: same algorithm, different implementation/package
22:07:06 <glx> (less code to maintain for us :) )
22:07:15 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: rubidium * r18997 /trunk/bin/gm/orig_win.obm: -Fix [FS#3588] (r18608): off-by-one in the music playlist (Cirdan)
22:07:38 <Rubidium> (especially less compiler warnings to fix)
22:10:31 <Eddi|zuHause> Zutty's avatar always reminds me of the toad in futurama
22:14:20 <Nite_Owl> ALL HAIL THE HYPNO-TOAD !!
22:14:31 <Rubidium> do any of the OSX users any idea about the correctness of the patches for FS#1140 and FS#3194?
22:15:11 <Nite_Owl> I am sorry... did I just type that ??
22:15:36 <Rubidium> yes, you typed "that"
22:17:01 <__ln__> Nite_Owl: can't tell, you could have pasted it as well. or read through a barcode scanner.
22:18:41 <Nite_Owl> ok - so it was a lame joke but somewhat relevant none the less
22:20:19 <Rubidium> Eddi|zuHause: what's the rationale for disabling dragging of stations by default?
22:20:39 <Eddi|zuHause> not entirely sure...
22:20:57 <Eddi|zuHause> i just remember that i always turn that off...
22:21:17 <Rubidium> I always use dragging
22:21:18 <PeterT> do I need to uninstall MSVC++ express to install MSVC pro?
22:21:22 <Eddi|zuHause> might be a personal thing though, so you can leave that out
22:21:31 <SmatZ> I am always using drag&drop
22:22:14 <__ln__> PeterT: please do not install pirated software.
22:22:21 <Eddi|zuHause> let's say i'm not particularly sad if you skip that ;)
22:22:35 <PeterT> __ln__: Who says its pirated?
22:22:55 <PeterT> perhaps I have you real life and prefer to compile win32 and win64 builds all day, so I bought MSVC Pro
22:22:58 <Eddi|zuHause> because it has "MS" in its name
22:23:02 <__ln__> PeterT: it's expensive, you couldn't have afforded it
22:23:40 <Nite_Owl> depends on the station set; with some, like industrial stations, you get a better looking set up by placing tiles individually
22:23:47 <__ln__> PeterT: anyway, at least you can have two different versions of VS Pro installed at the same time.
22:24:01 <PeterT> Oh really? that's great
22:24:05 <PeterT> thanks for the info, __ln__
22:24:19 <SmatZ> PeterT is going to "buy" next one
22:24:54 <Rubidium> __ln__: actually 3 works too, but don't try to uninstall any
22:25:01 <PeterT> __ln__: What country do you live in?
22:25:07 * Belugas is going to "run" home next
22:27:14 <PeterT> is piracy illegal there, __ln__?
22:28:23 <Eddi|zuHause> no, there is only wood and lakes in finland, no piracy...
22:29:16 <__ln__> PeterT: Of course it is.
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22:30:48 <glx> [23:23:00] <PeterT> perhaps I have you real life and prefer to compile win32 and win64 builds all day, so I bought MSVC Pro <-- express can do that
22:31:11 <PeterT> glx: You told me it couldn't
22:31:36 <glx> I told you that before I found the above link
22:32:35 <PeterT> that guide is so crammed
22:32:54 <PeterT> it looks more like a oversized paragraph than instructions
22:33:41 <glx> just install windows sdk and run a script
22:34:08 <PeterT> try clicking the link for that script
22:36:01 <SmatZ> you don't need the script, you can do it manually
22:38:24 <glx> true, but I prefered use the script ;)
22:39:10 <PeterT> glx: You've already test that?
22:39:50 <PeterT> You have an x64 machine to test it on?
22:40:40 <PeterT> I see why you are the windows expert
22:40:54 <__ln__> PeterT: ¿tienes que estudiar español, o lo estudias voluntariamente?
22:41:42 <PeterT> you have a choice of french, latin, spanish, or no language
22:41:57 <PeterT> More people speak Spanish than french and latin combined
22:42:07 <PeterT> since latin is a dead language, mostly
22:42:19 <Lex> (been sitting in term for a while, I just hadn't noticed it)
22:42:26 <Terkhen> what do people that chose "no language"?
22:42:51 <__ln__> Terkhen: they become presidents of the USA.
22:43:42 <PeterT> Terkhen: They get other classes like "Small Group English" which is mainly for those that are failing at English so badly they need two 45-minute sessions to comprehend what is happening
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22:45:11 <Terkhen> __ln__: I doubt it, that man who thought that Spain is in Mexico was not elected
22:45:35 <Eddi|zuHause> i had 3 foreign languages at school...
22:46:02 <Eddi|zuHause> ... at a school that emphasises science and maths
22:46:05 <Rubidium> oh... we're going to make it an auction?
22:47:19 <Eddi|zuHause> in germany, if you want higher education, two foreign languages are mandatory, third is optional
22:47:37 <SmatZ> english, german, spanish, russian, french :)
22:48:07 <Rubidium> Eddi|zuHause: here it's 3 (English, French and German although the latter two are "reading only")
22:48:27 <Eddi|zuHause> first foreign language is almost always english
22:48:43 <Shapeshifter> Is there a way to hide trees?
22:48:44 <Eddi|zuHause> in pre-1989 east germany, russian was mandatory, though
22:48:51 <Eddi|zuHause> Shapeshifter: ctrl+x
22:48:56 <Shapeshifter> Eddi|zuHause: thanks!
22:49:38 <Eddi|zuHause> the small green button switches between transparent and invisible
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22:54:37 <PeterT> glx: Do you still have that batch script
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22:55:54 <glx> PeterT: just use the win7sdk one
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23:02:34 <Lex> Isn't a bot supposed to respond to that?
23:03:14 <Eddi|zuHause> it's a riddle ;)
23:03:54 <Lex> ?_? why isn't there an osx build on that list
23:04:30 <Eddi|zuHause> because you haven't read the announcements and forum?
23:05:33 <Lex> I just noticed I had an openttd icon in one of my dock stacks and thought "oh I remember that it was fun, i should update my copy"
23:05:38 <Eddi|zuHause> "Support us by maintaining the Mac OS X portWe have lost our Mac OS X maintainer about two years ago. Since then the lack of maintainance has lead to a large number of Mac OS X unsolved specific bugs and numerous Mac OS X issues with the newer versions of Mac OS X. To keep support for Mac OS X we need a new maintainer. "
23:06:19 <Eddi|zuHause> it's all right there on the front page
23:06:52 * Lex goes to find the frontpage
23:09:10 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: rubidium * r18998 /trunk/ (readme.txt src/misc_gui.cpp): -Update: the credits
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23:13:54 <__ln__> oh no, only 102 revisions to go until cakeparty.
23:14:17 <Eddi|zuHause> so, did you order the cake yet?
23:14:28 <Eddi|zuHause> and the plane tickets to get everyone to your place?
23:14:55 <__ln__> i don't know if printed cakes are available here.
23:15:26 <__ln__> besides i think TrueBrain already promised something about cake at 20000.
23:15:29 <Lex> why does 19100 indicate a party?
23:15:46 <PeterT> he probably meant 1000
23:16:10 <__ln__> Lex: yeah, read my lines as i meant them, not as i typed them.
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23:19:53 <Eddi|zuHause> reminds me of that basic rule i learnt in university
23:20:16 <Eddi|zuHause> "Professor says A, but he means B, writes C on the board, and D is actually correct"
23:20:36 <Rubidium> whatever you think is true, the exact opposite might be true too
23:20:56 <ccfreak2k> If I need the Vector datatype in C++, I'd probably need to get it from STL right?
23:21:21 <Eddi|zuHause> that sounds like a sensible place to look
23:27:14 <Eddi|zuHause> i love youtube... downloading the clips takes so long, by the time they are done, i have forgotten that i downloaded them...
23:36:29 <Eddi|zuHause> so apparently this 8.029.431 byte file took 8m 35s at 25,1KB/s
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23:38:41 <Rubidium> Eddi|zuHause: what's the rationale behind pause-on-newgame? It means that new users have to find the pause button first before it starts working
23:39:26 <Eddi|zuHause> hm... you could have asked this last month when i wrote this :)
23:39:26 <Rubidium> and that might not make it a very got setting to be turned on for new users
23:39:46 <Rubidium> then I was asking why a Chinese person was DoS-ing
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23:40:42 <Eddi|zuHause> again, that might be a personal preference that slipped through. if you think this heavily confuses newbies, then skip it
23:45:33 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: rubidium * r18999 /trunk/src/table/settings.h: -Change: update some of the defaults (Eddi)
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continue to next day ⏵
