IRC logs for #openttd on OFTC at 2010-02-01
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00:00:09 <Rubidium> SpComb^: not everyone's my neighbour
00:02:59 <Eddi|zuHause> Rubidium: and if "neighbour" means "lives on the same planet"?
00:03:47 <Rubidium> Eddi|zuHause: then it's time to leave that planet
00:08:21 <Eddi|zuHause> so then... all we need is a rocket scientist
00:08:46 <Rubidium> nah, a knive will do too
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00:09:57 <rait> how do you physically leave the planet with a knife?
00:10:56 <Rubidium> by dying I ascent to a higher plane
00:11:04 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: smatz * r18978 /trunk/src/vehicle.cpp: -Fix [FS#3584](r14753): possible invalid memory access when merging companies
00:11:18 <SpComb^> Rubidium: ruled by the guy that came up with this "love thy neighbour" rule
00:12:17 <Rubidium> another solution would be to cancel the "living" of the "neighbour"
00:12:24 <rait> ascension? some kind of reference to a certain sci-fi series?
00:13:09 <Eddi|zuHause> rait: no, we had enough discussion about that sci-fi series for one day :p
00:13:43 <rait> depending on the timezone you might have had it yesterday :)
00:14:34 <Eddi|zuHause> days don't end on midnight in my world
00:14:48 <Eddi|zuHause> days end when i go to sleep...
00:15:36 <Rubidium> Eddi|zuHause: that depends on the definition of midnight; if midnight is in the middle of your sleep it does
00:16:26 <Eddi|zuHause> Rubidium: statistically, 0:00 CET does hardly ever fall in the period of time that i'm asleep
00:17:29 <Eddi|zuHause> just look at the irc stats ;)
00:17:37 <Rubidium> #define midnight(eddi) (((eddi).begin_sleep + (eddi).end_sleep) / 2)
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00:22:00 <Rubidium> wow, that was a short powernap :)
00:23:20 <Eddi|zuHause> no, i turned off the other computer
00:23:42 <Eddi|zuHause> really, it's several orders of magnitude louder than the old one
00:25:06 * Rubidium wonders whether that's also the case when comparing the loudness in dBs
00:25:36 <Eddi|zuHause> i don't have a noise-meter
00:27:23 <SpComb^> someone remind me why I would want to play multiplayer online with random people
00:29:25 <Eddi|zuHause> i have no clue...
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00:42:01 <SpComb^> why is there a 255.255.255.255 server listed? :P
00:47:48 <Rubidium> that sounds unlikely
00:48:58 <Rubidium> it isn't the master server's list
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03:15:45 <Nite_Owl> Hello PeterT - I am fine - How are you?
03:15:57 <PeterT> How is florida this evening?
03:16:19 <PeterT> I might be going on vacation there
03:16:50 <Nite_Owl> this is the time of year for it
03:17:32 <Nite_Owl> although we did have a nasty cold snap a few weeks back
03:17:36 <PeterT> really? during the winter?
03:18:06 <Nite_Owl> much too hot and humid during the summer
03:18:25 <PeterT> Where do you recommend I go, Nite_Owl?
03:18:40 <Nite_Owl> actually not all that hot but the humidity is a killer
03:18:57 <Nite_Owl> depends on what you are looking for
03:19:38 <Nite_Owl> more adult good times - go to Miami
03:19:55 <Nite_Owl> family stuff - go to Orlando
03:20:52 <Nite_Owl> of course almost any of the beaches are nice
04:11:44 <Diablo-D3> that 32bit graphics thing looks nice
04:19:06 <Diablo-D3> some of these newgfx packs should be in by default
04:21:00 <Diablo-D3> like there should be multiple temperate zones
04:21:06 <Diablo-D3> american, european, and japanese
04:21:09 <Diablo-D3> or something like that
04:21:20 <Diablo-D3> so people can build different graphic sets =P
04:21:27 <Diablo-D3> without having to install newgfx packs
04:22:27 <Diablo-D3> hey guys, what do I install if I want AI players?
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06:15:45 * Diablo-D3 installs metro track set, egrvts, bigger depots, ev8 aviators, industrial stations renewal
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09:06:01 <peter1138> ah, right, now the auditor wants Administrator removed
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09:19:09 *** bartaway is now known as bartavelle
09:20:36 <bartavelle> nickserv identify troutrou
09:21:11 <bartavelle> /amsg instead of /msg ...
09:22:17 <peter1138> so, can i remove Administrator from a running system without any adverse effects?
09:24:23 <Rubidium> just rename it to guest :)
09:24:32 <Rubidium> and remove the password!
09:25:01 <bartavelle> you can rename it but you should not remove it afaik
09:25:20 <bartavelle> however security advices from me should be taken with a grain of salt as i just demonstrated
09:33:52 <blathijs> I think renaming should be fine, since it has a well-known GUID
09:34:18 <peter1138> then i'll be asked what this other account is for
09:34:24 <blathijs> As for deleting, that probably breaks stuff. Why would you want to do that?
09:34:41 <blathijs> Wouldn't disabling be enough?
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09:41:02 <peter1138> oh, that articles useless too, heh
09:49:27 <peter1138> hmm, seems 2003 lets you just disable it in user accounts
09:50:29 * peter1138 reboots his test machine and crosses fingers
09:53:49 * Diablo-D3 needs to quit playing
09:54:21 <planetmaker> then start programming. Just as addictive :-P
09:54:28 <Diablo-D3> Im not programming on openttd
09:54:43 <planetmaker> that's why I have proposed to start in order to stop playing
09:54:56 <Diablo-D3> planetmaker: I code on many things
09:55:01 <Diablo-D3> openttd will never be one of them.
09:56:16 <Diablo-D3> one of the AIs is trying to do trams
09:56:18 <Diablo-D3> and fucking it all up
10:13:53 <roboboy> can I move the Tars Bananas downloads to another folder within my Data folder and have them still be opened and applyd?
10:44:00 * Diablo-D3 got rid of almost all his road and tram vehicles
10:45:40 <Diablo-D3> vehicles are breaking down so much that everything just jams up badly
10:51:59 <SpComb^> remove your depots and watch the fun
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12:07:19 <Diablo-D3> I dont care about AI difficulty
12:07:25 <Diablo-D3> all I want is an AI who doesnt fuck shit up
12:07:41 <Diablo-D3> openttd isnt about how much cargo you push, or how many places you connect
12:07:46 <Diablo-D3> its how it looks when you're done
12:08:12 <Diablo-D3> Noldo: honestly, its easier to just kidnap mexican kids and make them play openttd on tiny little netbooks
12:08:33 <roboboy> are you using a version that has NoAI in it?
12:08:58 <Diablo-D3> roboboy: why would it matter?
12:09:34 <roboboy> because I would have thought the new AIs for NoAI would not destroy the landscape and such
12:09:59 <Diablo-D3> admiralAI and pathzilla, for example, both _ruin_ cities
12:10:10 <Diablo-D3> they put fucking bus stops and tram stops everywhere
12:10:49 <Yexo> Diablo-D3: you can configure AdmiralAI to not use busses at all
12:11:15 <Diablo-D3> Yexo: Im thinking about turning off everything but trains and planes for AI.
12:11:39 <Diablo-D3> that, and turning off vehicle breakdown
12:12:09 <Diablo-D3> what screwed it up was the AI busses would all break down constantly
12:12:20 <Diablo-D3> so you'd have a line of like 50 vehicles of mine and the AI's
12:12:25 <Diablo-D3> all stuck in traffic
12:14:13 <Diablo-D3> whats currently the least ugly AI?
12:15:19 <Rubidium> DummyAI builds the fewest ugly stuff/vehicles
12:15:44 <roboboy> it depends on what you call ugly. You seem to have a different view on what ugly is to most people.
12:16:17 * roboboy wonders if DummyAI will ever be replace. He thinks most likely not
12:18:06 <Diablo-D3> roboboy: well, having 3258029582039548109482409 busses
12:18:08 <Diablo-D3> all stuck in traffic
12:18:13 <Diablo-D3> breaking down while sitting in traffic
12:18:26 <Diablo-D3> and otherwise being useless
12:18:39 <Diablo-D3> why the hell are vehicles breaking down while sitting anyhow
12:19:00 <Rubidium> the engine overheats?
12:20:47 <Eddi|zuHause> the problem is not that the AI build ugly stuff, but that openttd traffic management is not designed for such a vehicle load
12:21:21 <Eddi|zuHause> vehicles can't load balance for example, or use multi-lane roads
12:21:54 * roboboy cant remember if the annoying traffic jams can un-jam themselves manually
12:22:19 <roboboy> the ones where vehicles get stuck on top of each other at station entrances.
12:22:55 <Eddi|zuHause> roboboy: there's measures to resolve them. they pass through each other after a while
12:25:41 <roboboy> so the AI wont be screwed over totally if they occur
12:26:07 <roboboy> what exactly causes them out of interest. Ive never actually seen one form.
12:30:01 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: matthijs * r18979 /trunk/src/console_cmds.cpp: -Fix: Typo in console save command output.
12:43:40 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: rubidium * r18980 /trunk/src/ (order_gui.cpp timetable_gui.cpp): -Codechange: preceeding -> preceding (spelling)
12:50:08 <__ln__> Eddi|zuHause: remember that scene in Star Trek IV (Voyage Home) with the whaling ship and its crew talking/yelling to each other?
12:50:34 <Eddi|zuHause> i think they had subtitles, not sure
12:50:49 <Eddi|zuHause> let me search...
12:53:05 <TrueBrain> a Rubidium commit? That is a while ago :p
12:53:23 <__ln__> (Eddi seems to have all the movies from past 20 years available)
12:54:37 <Eddi|zuHause> johannes@johannes-ii:/media/disk/filme> find -iname '*.avi' | wc -l
12:55:46 *** bartavelle is now known as bartaway
12:56:20 <Eddi|zuHause> plus the ones i have on DVD
12:56:37 <Diablo-D3> Eddi|zuHause: btw, yes, I agree that ottd traffic management is nuts
12:56:48 <Diablo-D3> but vehicles really shouldnt break down all that often
12:57:02 <Eddi|zuHause> i always play without breakdowns
12:57:11 <Diablo-D3> Im seriously thinking about that
12:57:27 <Diablo-D3> openttd simply isnt ready until ye average player doesnt have to fuck with advanced options.
12:57:35 <Diablo-D3> I remember saying this around the 0.5 days
12:57:38 <Diablo-D3> and, apparently, have been ignored
12:57:46 <SpComb^> breakdowns isn't in the advanced options, it's in the difficulty settings
12:57:54 <Diablo-D3> SpComb^: it used to be.
12:58:04 <SpComb^> it was in the original TTD
12:58:05 <Eddi|zuHause> breakdowns always were difficulty
12:58:13 <TrueBrain> always and always and always
12:58:23 <Diablo-D3> either way, I shouldnt have to fuck with it
12:58:27 <Eddi|zuHause> and the advanced settings problem has been reduced since 0.5 ;)
12:58:37 <Diablo-D3> its not a bad "feature", its just woefully hyperactive.
12:58:42 <TrueBrain> is this Luukland with another name? :p
12:58:57 * Diablo-D3 has missed out on all the trolls, btw
12:59:18 <Rubidium> the only breakdowns that weren't in the difficulty settings at any time are mental breakdowns of players (they've never been a setting anyhow)
12:59:33 <Diablo-D3> seriously though, openttd has really advanced
12:59:52 <Diablo-D3> but its not "done" until some of the really retarded stuff goes away
13:00:45 <Diablo-D3> the lack of real road management as Eddi|zuHause mentioned is a severe problem
13:01:48 <Diablo-D3> and stuff like egrvts and industrial stations renewal shouldn't be newgrf packs
13:01:49 <TrueBrain> it is never "done" btw
13:01:54 <Diablo-D3> TrueBrain: thus the quotes.
13:01:59 <TrueBrain> even with the quotes
13:02:07 <TrueBrain> there will always be someone who says it is not "done"
13:02:25 <Diablo-D3> "done" == I dont have to hand new players a list of settings to set and shit to download before they can play it
13:02:42 <Rubidium> well, arguably all NewGRFs Diablo-D3 likes to use should be in standard OpenTTD because only then it can ever be marked "done"
13:02:52 <TrueBrain> but ... who says you should download egrvts? And not something else?
13:02:55 <Diablo-D3> Rubidium: no, thats not what Im arguing
13:03:13 <Diablo-D3> Im saying newgfxs shouldnt be fixing serious deficiencies in gameplay
13:03:16 <Rubidium> anyhow, with that respect... without OpenTTD being added to *DEFAULT* installations... OpenTTD will never be done
13:03:41 <TrueBrain> I like the default settings btw, in Easy difficulty :) The only one I switch is allowing to build road-stops on town-road
13:03:48 <Rubidium> how are extra graphics for stations a deficiency?
13:03:58 <Diablo-D3> egrvts adds more vehicles
13:04:02 <Diablo-D3> its not about graphics
13:04:06 <SpComb^> Diablo-D3: you can hand then the binary and tell them to join a server, which has the right settings
13:04:26 <Diablo-D3> SpComb^: thats if they want to play multiplayer
13:04:32 <TrueBrain> I do agree that the BaNaNaS could use a rating star system :)
13:04:41 <Diablo-D3> yeah, banans should have that
13:04:48 <Diablo-D3> I know it tracks downloads, thats almost just as good
13:05:34 <Diablo-D3> road vehicles, btw, almost seem like an afterthought in the original TT design
13:05:57 <Diablo-D3> theres very few vehicles and they don't really work very well
13:05:57 * Rubidium wonders the value of rating stuff; it doesn't tell shit about the quality, just about how bad people like *something* in it
13:05:59 <Ammler> [14:04] <Diablo-D3> I know it tracks downloads, thats almost just as good <-- not really, it penalties grfs, which do update from time to time.
13:06:12 <TrueBrain> Rubidium: exactly :)
13:06:13 <__ln__> Eddi|zuHause: anyway, about that scene, the language the whale hunters speak is the interesting part.
13:06:17 <Diablo-D3> Ammler: that just sounds like a bug that should be fixed
13:06:30 <Diablo-D3> __ln__: what language? russian?
13:06:35 <Eddi|zuHause> __ln__: apparently they speak foreign-ish, but without subtitles
13:06:54 <Ammler> that, I didn't say, it should just not be used as rating system :-)
13:07:06 <Diablo-D3> (wouldnt that be hilarious)
13:07:26 <Diablo-D3> klingon spoken without the IM ANGRY AND HAVE A RIDGE IN MY FOREHEAD thing
13:07:47 <__ln__> Eddi|zuHause: they speak finnish.
13:08:11 <Diablo-D3> __ln__: that doesnt seem right for some reason
13:08:14 <Eddi|zuHause> __ln__: but how do finnish whale hunters get into bering strait?
13:09:05 <Diablo-D3> a motherfucking boat?
13:09:09 <__ln__> Eddi|zuHause: that's a good question, besides the fact i've never heard of finnish whale hunters.
13:09:32 <Diablo-D3> crap, now I'm envisioning kirk and spock and bones in "I'm on a boat"
13:09:33 <Eddi|zuHause> yeah, that's half of the question ;)
13:10:14 * Diablo-D3 bangs head on desk until it goes away
13:10:28 <Eddi|zuHause> Diablo-D3: what exactly is that?
13:10:37 <Diablo-D3> Eddi|zuHause: you've never seen it!?
13:14:04 <Eddi|zuHause> nope, i don't seem to know that...
13:14:17 <Diablo-D3> Eddi|zuHause: you're the last person on the internet to have not seen it
13:14:31 <Eddi|zuHause> forgive me. i'm german...
13:16:27 <Diablo-D3> you know what would be interesting in openttd, btw?
13:16:42 <Eddi|zuHause> apparently my internet doesn't want me to see it either...
13:16:48 <Eddi|zuHause> download stops after 500kb
13:17:01 <Diablo-D3> Eddi|zuHause: hrm weird
13:21:10 <__ln__> Diablo-D3: how big is real size?
13:21:18 <Diablo-D3> thats a good question
13:21:36 <ctibor> Diablo-D3: I assume that planes are small too then :-)
13:21:56 <__ln__> I once suggested ships that could carry trucks and trains.
13:22:02 <Eddi|zuHause> Diablo-D3: there's a setting for that ;)
13:22:04 <ctibor> you can make them faster
13:22:07 <Diablo-D3> Eddi|zuHause: yeah, and its nuts
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13:22:28 <Diablo-D3> but it doesnt scale cost well enough
13:22:33 <Eddi|zuHause> Diablo-D3: you are one of those guys who can never have it right...
13:22:46 <Diablo-D3> Eddi|zuHause: ottd is a complex game
13:22:48 <Diablo-D3> its hard to balance it.
13:23:17 <Diablo-D3> but ships are too small in respect for the weird scaling openttd has
13:23:56 <Eddi|zuHause> Diablo-D3: ships have enough problems with their oversized-ness as it is
13:24:15 <ctibor> I think it's good for the gameplay to be alright
13:24:31 <Diablo-D3> thats a more important goal
13:24:37 <Diablo-D3> but for what ships hold, they seem too small
13:26:10 <Eddi|zuHause> Diablo-D3: on the contrary, people claim that ships do not hold enough
13:26:22 <Diablo-D3> Eddi|zuHause: this may also be true
13:26:53 <ctibor> Yes their capcity is maybe small...
13:27:08 <Diablo-D3> do things in ttd have correct speeds?
13:27:14 <ctibor> but on a typical industry, it will have to wait for ages to fully load
13:27:17 <Diablo-D3> besides airplanes I mean
13:27:48 <Eddi|zuHause> i think speeds are of the same scale
13:28:04 <Eddi|zuHause> but the internal representation is different, i believe
13:28:04 <Diablo-D3> ctibor: thats not a big issue.
13:28:36 <Diablo-D3> but industries should have larger dynamic in their production output
13:28:57 <ctibor> Well I consider initial productions of the industries way too small. I want to build big traaaaiinss :-)
13:29:10 <Eddi|zuHause> Diablo-D3: try an industry newgrf
13:29:20 <Diablo-D3> Eddi|zuHause: we're talking basic openttd here
13:29:30 <Eddi|zuHause> zombie-ottd... "traaaaaaaaaaiiinnnnssss"
13:29:46 <Diablo-D3> the point of openttd gameplay is to setup all these networks for fun
13:29:51 <Diablo-D3> and I stress the fun part
13:30:08 <ctibor> i cheat and modify industry production
13:30:13 <Diablo-D3> why have boats at all if they're somewhat useless
13:30:21 <ctibor> also pikkabird's industries are quite good :-)
13:30:54 <Diablo-D3> I don't use boats all that often
13:31:04 <Diablo-D3> they just dont feel right
13:31:17 <Diablo-D3> I almost wanna say the maps are too small.
13:31:51 <Diablo-D3> the maps are the right size for trains
13:31:58 <Eddi|zuHause> the problem with boats is that the delivery prices are too dependent on speed, and do not care about terrain difficulties (like islands)
13:32:00 <Diablo-D3> but the wrong size for airplanes and boats.
13:32:03 <ctibor> recently i started to like 1024 square with few cities on it (like 25).
13:32:35 <Diablo-D3> Eddi|zuHause: I agree
13:32:47 <Diablo-D3> boats should obviously have a modifier for this.
13:32:59 <Eddi|zuHause> also, the game doesn't start in early 19th century, where boats were much more dominant for transporting large amounts of cargo
13:33:00 <Diablo-D3> and some things should not be speed dependent
13:33:11 <Diablo-D3> Eddi|zuHause: boats are still largely important
13:33:29 <ctibor> boats are cheap in real life..
13:33:33 <Eddi|zuHause> yes, but they lost a significant share to railway
13:33:40 <Diablo-D3> almost all crude oil in the world is being moved by boat
13:33:57 <Diablo-D3> and large cargo is also being shipped by boat.
13:34:10 <Diablo-D3> openttd doesnt have a large cargo classification though
13:34:25 <Ammler> Diablo-D3: there is larger ships mod available as grf
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13:34:49 <Diablo-D3> theres two or three really large cargo boat companies
13:34:50 <Ammler> oh, you don't want to use newgrfs, you wanna have everyhing in default openttd :-)
13:34:52 <ctibor> magine factory that would produce large cargo... special carriages needed, slow speed :-)
13:35:19 <Diablo-D3> almost all other boats are privately owned
13:35:25 <Eddi|zuHause> "Castor Transport" :)
13:35:27 <Diablo-D3> such as the vast oil fleets
13:35:37 <Eddi|zuHause> "has to stop every 2 tiles due to protesters" :p
13:35:43 <Diablo-D3> Eddi|zuHause: hahahaha
13:35:52 <Diablo-D3> also, is there a mod for fishing?
13:36:03 <ctibor> Eddi|zuHause: that would be toxic or nuclear waste
13:36:22 <__ln__> yeah, nucular waste would be a great new cargo type
13:36:26 <ctibor> uranium mine -> nuclear plant -> nuclear waste ftw!
13:36:35 <Diablo-D3> that seems rather redundant actually
13:36:41 <Diablo-D3> we already have coal and copper
13:36:47 <Diablo-D3> do we really need yet another mining type?
13:36:48 <ctibor> dump it to the sea ;-)
13:36:50 <Eddi|zuHause> Diablo-D3: yes and no, the first "newindustries" grf has a fishing ground, but openttd lacks the feature to use buoys as loading stations
13:37:09 <Diablo-D3> copper is a standin for all production use metals
13:37:15 <Diablo-D3> and coal is a standin for all energy use shit
13:37:33 <Diablo-D3> I dont think openttd would gain if people started adding even more
13:37:54 <Eddi|zuHause> Diablo-D3: seriously, have you tried ANY grfs at all?
13:37:54 <Diablo-D3> I mean, you'd need to deliver coal to steel plants
13:37:59 <ctibor> Well it is probably true that the waste from normal coal power plant is toxic too
13:38:20 <Diablo-D3> ctibor: well, if you start doing that, then openttd needs other company aspects
13:38:33 <Diablo-D3> such as letting people be energy companies instead of transport companies
13:38:54 <ctibor> Eddi|zuHause: yeah, then firing up coal in power plant doesn't seem right when there is limited amount of it in the mine :-)
13:38:54 <Diablo-D3> and Im not sure openttd needs that.
13:39:13 <Diablo-D3> btw, anyone try heqs?
13:39:32 <Eddi|zuHause> i did, but not much...
13:39:38 <Eddi|zuHause> i'm too much into trains
13:39:56 <Diablo-D3> I dont get the point if it doesnt replace the traditional types
13:40:02 <Diablo-D3> thats another thing I dont like about openttd
13:40:12 <Diablo-D3> theres too many normal trucks doing big truck tasks
13:40:13 <ctibor> Diablo-D3: I don't see any change in the game, where power plant would produce new cargo type such as toxic waste, it won't be any different from factory or rafinery
13:40:42 <Diablo-D3> ctibor: yeah, but it focuses on an aspec that doesnt belong in ottd
13:40:59 <Diablo-D3> same reason ottd doesnt have wars.
13:41:33 <Eddi|zuHause> different reason
13:41:48 <Diablo-D3> imagine terrorists hijacking one of your planes and flying it into a city
13:41:51 <Eddi|zuHause> you can't stop things like town growth etc. when waste is not transported
13:41:57 <Eddi|zuHause> so introducing waste is useless
13:42:24 <Diablo-D3> its just ugly aspects of industrialization that doesnt really belong in ottd
13:42:35 <ctibor> well the power plant would refuse new coal, but that is beyond original concept
13:42:54 <Diablo-D3> I dont like the fact trains and crash into cars either
13:42:56 <ctibor> but for some newgrf it would be nice idea IMO
13:44:02 <Diablo-D3> Im just saying, those shouldnt exist at all
13:44:08 <Diablo-D3> death shouldnt happen in openttd
13:44:44 <TinoDidriksen> So, disable it from options?
13:45:00 <Diablo-D3> TinoDidriksen: it shouldnt be an option.
13:45:26 <Diablo-D3> "realism" would make a great newgrf.
13:45:36 <Diablo-D3> but it doesnt seem like something the core game should handle.
13:46:01 <TinoDidriksen> Then it wouldn't be TTD any longer...planes crash, trains crash, etc, if you don't maintain the network.
13:46:09 <ctibor> Diablo-D3: I like more when the game has lots of features to set up .-)
13:46:40 <Diablo-D3> what newgrfs should I add, anyhow?
13:46:40 <ctibor> iirc in simutrans the trains can go into another. But I played it very long ago...
13:47:12 <Diablo-D3> Ive added metro track set, egrvts, bigger depots, av8, and industrial stations renewal
13:47:26 <ctibor> Diablo-D3: try pikkindw.grf, Pikkabirds base industries, they are really worth to try
13:47:57 <Diablo-D3> btw, did the bug that limited the number of things get fixed?
13:48:36 <ctibor> Because secondary industries are built near the cities, it allows to build nice networks. Or rather the networks I like :-)
13:49:19 <Diablo-D3> I remember a bug in early openttd that there could only be so many kinds of trains or cars or whatever because the internal id setup was retarded
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13:49:52 <ctibor> Diablo-D3: never had problem with that...
13:53:23 <ctibor> The feature that wuld be really killer for me is that realistic bi-directional tracks that were proposed some long time ago but are apparently too difficult to implement.
13:54:08 <ctibor> When I am retired in some 40-50 years, I would learn to code and make it happen ;-)
13:54:32 <SpComb^> in 40-50 years, OpenTTD...
13:57:17 <Eddi|zuHause> ctibor: problem is reservation management
13:57:39 <ctibor> Eddi|zuHause: I know... I discussed it earlier and read all the posts about it...
13:59:24 <Diablo-D3> ctibor: I dont see pikkabird's stuff in the content downloader
14:00:05 <ctibor> you must download it manually i think
14:00:38 <Eddi|zuHause> if in doubt, use grfcrawler
14:02:22 * ctibor is back to learnin the stuff for exam
14:02:47 <Eddi|zuHause> i have a headache...
14:03:04 <Eddi|zuHause> i think i'm getting ill... didn't sleep well either
14:06:36 <Diablo-D3> the ECS stuff looks nuts
14:07:56 <SpComb^> I felt pretty horrible for a while yesterday after drinking some coffe with a bunch of coffe grounds in it
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14:41:15 <Sacro> 501 HELO requires domain address
14:42:01 <Rubidium> ehlo sacro.pedantic.uk
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14:46:51 <TrueBrain> 550 RELAY DENIED - NO ROUTE
14:47:11 <SirSquidness> You broke it, TrueBrain
14:47:35 <SirSquidness> I hope you don't have commit privs on the SVN :P
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16:34:54 <Ammler> peter1138: does excluding blitters from dedicated version really improve performance? Else I would request a revert of your commit. ;-)
16:36:31 <TrueBrain> if you fancy it so much
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16:36:37 <TrueBrain> useless to compile something that should never be used :)
16:37:15 <Ammler> Well, it is kinda neat to make screens on the server :-)
16:37:45 <TrueBrain> neat: yes; requirement for a dedicated: no
16:38:43 <Ammler> yeah, if it hurts, it is better, nvm. We just try to use as few patches as possible...
16:40:14 <TrueBrain> the only 'sane' thing I can see, is that you can do: --with-blitters
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16:40:24 <TrueBrain> but it should never be something that is on by default for a dedicated, that is just silly
16:42:07 <peter1138> it makes the build smaller
16:42:32 <peter1138> you can request reverts as much as you like. i won't revert it.
16:42:58 <Ammler> oh well, that was the question, all fine :-)
16:43:39 <TrueBrain> Ammler: well, you can request what I suggest ;)
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16:48:11 <Ammler> It is already very cool to be able to make screen on dedicated. Thanks anyway.
16:49:14 <TrueBrain> (I am such a child)
16:50:33 <TrueBrain> I can blow at all 5 candles on my birthday cake!
16:51:27 <Eddi|zuHause> they're trick candles, they burn more when you blow at them :p
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17:22:48 <alos> I was just seeing the lack of developers for the Mac OS port
17:23:28 <TrueBrain> I guess the lack of Mac OSX nightlies and the fact the topic is still open says it all :) But no, that is not 'fixed'
17:23:44 <Eddi|zuHause> a bunch of people have said they'd try something, but i haven't seen anything real come out of that
17:24:10 <alos> I'm not an expert in Objective-C/Cocoa
17:24:17 <alos> but if no one else is willing to help
17:24:32 <TrueBrain> so get to work, I suggest ;) Hehe :)
17:25:29 <alos> So, yeah, I was wondering if there is a document or something explaining the Mac OS code or the procedure or something
17:25:58 <TrueBrain> src/os/macosx has all files/documentation/information/code/...
17:28:40 <TrueBrain> and now I am going to enjoy my dinner ... hamhamhamham
17:31:13 <alos> ok, I'm downloading the source code
17:33:05 <Eddi|zuHause> that probably needs updating as well
17:33:24 <Eddi|zuHause> people have been reporting trouble getting liblzo2
17:34:42 <planetmaker> <Eddi|zuHause> a bunch of people have said they'd try something, but i haven't seen anything real come out of that <-- that's IMO the most prominant outcome and most concise summary possible :-)
17:35:27 <planetmaker> That lib sucks hell.
17:35:28 <alos> am a newb developer in Mac OS
17:35:44 <planetmaker> I tend to ignore that lib meanwhile ;-)
17:36:12 <planetmaker> even though I *could* move it to the place where config finds it.
17:36:38 <planetmaker> But... having to do that seems bad to me. As macports should be considered a default location.
17:36:53 <Eddi|zuHause> planetmaker: or you could update configure to look at the place where it installs?
17:37:11 <planetmaker> Eddi|zuHause, yes. But that's where I'm notoriously bad at.
17:37:28 <planetmaker> But that's the solution which I'd consider proper
17:38:00 <Eddi|zuHause> planetmaker: isn't that a matter of adding a directory to the library/include paths?
17:38:45 <planetmaker> But I always get that wrong somehow. But yes, the /opt/... dirs are in my common search path
17:42:40 <SpComb> feature request: empty out the initial group name in the text dialogue when creating a new vehicle group
17:47:26 <SmatZ> SpComb: no renaming works this way
17:47:37 <SmatZ> it could be done though
17:47:43 <SpComb> creating a new group...
17:48:00 <SmatZ> it has always the "automatic" name filled in
17:48:07 <SmatZ> like, when renaming a vehicle
17:48:21 <SpComb> well, there's a "Create new group" button which pops up the edit box right away
17:48:48 <SmatZ> the idea is reasonable :)
17:48:49 <SpComb> which is different from, say, vehicles
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17:51:36 <Eddi|zuHause> *mental note* don't drop the keyboard
17:55:52 <SmatZ> it will show empty query even when renaming group with default name
17:56:03 <SmatZ> I am not sure if that's the right thing to do
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18:34:44 <Eddi|zuHause> and clicking "OK" with empty name will apply the default name?
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18:45:23 <DorpsGek> SmatZ: Commit by smatz :: r18981 trunk/src/group_gui.cpp (2010-02-01 18:38:28 UTC)
18:45:24 <DorpsGek> SmatZ: -Change: show empty query after creating new group (instead of 'Group nnn')
19:06:11 <TrueBrain> just because he can :)
19:10:48 <frosch123> well, it's no rover
19:10:57 <Osai> why did you leave the dune channel?
19:11:10 <TrueBrain> I am in #opendune :)
19:11:23 <Rubidium> no, this is #openttd
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19:12:29 <planetmaker> hm... I wonder... I guess I could now make a track set and not worry about different undergrounds anymore, is that right?
19:13:07 <planetmaker> re-using the existing ground tile and drawing a semi-transparent ground tile with only the track or road over it.
19:13:36 <frosch123> that part is not trunkified afaik
19:13:58 <planetmaker> that's what I'm asking :-)
19:14:23 <planetmaker> I could define a track. So I can also define new graphics for that track I guess, or?
19:15:02 <frosch123> you can do that with the hg repo
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19:17:27 <planetmaker> I thought I could already combine r18969 and r18959
19:17:52 <planetmaker> hm... ah. It says houses, stations and industries...
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19:29:28 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: smatz * r18981 /trunk/src/group_gui.cpp: -Change: show empty query after creating new group (instead of 'Group nnn')
19:29:40 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: smatz * r18982 /trunk/svnup.sh: -Remove: svnup.sh - no active dev uses it, modifying it causes breakage when it's used to update
19:29:43 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: translators * r18983 /trunk/src/lang/ (7 files): (log message trimmed)
19:29:43 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: -Update from WebTranslator v3.0:
19:29:43 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: traditional_chinese - 11 changes by josesun
19:29:43 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: dutch - 3 changes by habell
19:29:45 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: greek - 9 changes by fumantsu
19:29:45 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: lithuanian - 4 changes by BlinK_
19:29:47 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: norwegian_bokmal - 2 changes by CyberKenny
19:30:28 <db48x> SmatZ: what I'd like to see is a button in the route window that lets me name the group containing all vehicles on that route
19:34:48 <SmatZ> db48x: you can create new group, move one vehicle there and the use "Move vehicles with shared orders to this group" function
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19:55:58 <Belugas> i want a button "play for me"
19:56:25 * planetmaker wants rather the button "write thesis"
19:57:15 <Muxy> What about a "Eat For Me" one ?
19:57:32 <planetmaker> good one. Though I currently enjoy quite eating for myself.
19:58:04 <Belugas> which is less ambiguous than "eating myself"
19:58:20 <Muxy> Next one will be "Sleep for me" while im doing somehting else
19:58:29 * Belugas votes for "write thesis" or "finish work for me"
19:58:29 <planetmaker> hm... both is currently true ;-)
19:58:42 *** ChanServ sets mode: +v tokai
19:58:45 <planetmaker> Muxy, that'd be good, too, indeed.
19:59:20 <Muxy> and the disabled one : "Watch movie for me"
19:59:31 <frosch123> actually i am happy noone drinks the coffee for me
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20:05:02 <Terkhen> I'd vote for a "study for me" button, but I doubt it would help me
20:06:18 <Belugas> not in my case, at least...
20:07:45 <Eddi|zuHause> anybody have an "enlist for exam" button for me?
20:11:40 <Belugas> ho... wish list! i want a "Obtain a salary raise"
20:12:23 <Belugas> i was about to write a pay raise, but my wife has indeed a tendancy to raise the number of times she pays for stuff...
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20:12:38 <Belugas> frosch123, coffee is free here ;)
20:12:58 <frosch123> hehe, most important :p
20:19:00 <db48x> would anyone be interested in commiting my patch from flyspray bug 2719?
20:19:12 <db48x> it makes the teraform tools more helpful to the user
20:19:12 <frosch123> we don't commit bugs
20:19:13 <Belugas> otherwise, if we had to pay than we'd be so poor...
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20:21:08 <frosch123> but you already have a point as you seem to know the difference between tab and space :)
20:21:10 <Belugas> mmh... ive' checked that patch a while ago
20:21:22 <frosch123> it could make use of some SmallVector
20:21:33 <frosch123> instead of adding the stuff manually to a static array
20:22:07 <Belugas> [TERRAFORMER_TILE_TABLE_SIZE+1] -> [TERRAFORMER_TILE_TABLE_SIZE + 1]
20:23:59 <Rubidium> I'm not so sure whether this is really useful, especially because it adds a O(n) function to tile drawing
20:24:50 <frosch123> yeah, that is a drawback
20:25:19 <db48x> true, for an n that is usually 0
20:26:45 <db48x> I could make it a hash instead, but that would have a constant cost even if n is zero
20:27:10 <frosch123> better add some bounding box for a negative check
20:28:24 <Rubidium> there's not even a tunnel on the map
20:29:19 <db48x> the string names changed sometime since I last updated the patch, perhaps I messed them up
20:30:31 <Rubidium> sorry, but as you can see in the image there is nothing that would hold back lowering that tile there
20:30:35 <Rubidium> 1) there's no tunnels
20:30:41 <Rubidium> 2) it's not the lowest tile
20:30:48 <Rubidium> 3) there's nothing on the top of the hills
20:31:03 <db48x> yes, I must have broken it
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20:31:58 <Rubidium> and if I get it on the first terraform I try, I must be extremely lucky or the patch isn't tested that well
20:32:39 <Rubidium> note: my logs show that last time I looked at the patch something similar must've occured
20:33:26 <planetmaker> how do you log all your tests you surely must do, Rubidium ?
20:37:32 <TrueBrain> logging IRC conversations is very powerful :)
20:38:36 <Eddi|zuHause> i thought you left? :)
20:38:46 <TrueBrain> you like me gone, don't you? :(
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20:39:18 <Eddi|zuHause> no, i missed you the instant you left :(
20:39:25 <TrueBrain> that is much better :)
20:39:52 <Eddi|zuHause> hey, i totally mean that :p
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20:40:35 <Belugas> i want to commit this patch, i want to commit this patch, i want to commit this patch!!!
20:40:53 <TrueBrain> Belugas: let me revoke your SSH access, that should solve that urge
20:44:24 <Rubidium> removal from the vcs group would help too
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20:44:46 <TrueBrain> remove him from the Developers group too
20:44:55 <TrueBrain> owh, I can think up so many ways
20:45:00 <TrueBrain> but that is kind of besides the point here :)
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20:50:16 * Belugas was talking about a patch at work...
20:50:20 <Belugas> of course of course...
20:50:29 <TrueBrain> you make patches for work?!
20:52:06 <Rubidium> I even make patches for Debian and Ubuntu, though Ubuntu doesn't want my patches for some reason
20:52:20 <Rubidium> and I once made a patch for the Linux kernel :)
20:52:37 <Eddi|zuHause> how'd that go? :p
20:53:02 <_Ben_> question: does anyone know the railway set which all I can really remember about it is that it's generally a light grey colour, and part of an eastern european set? I can't find the name of it anywhere.
20:53:13 <Rubidium> although it was so extremely trivial somewhere along the way the 'credits' if you may call it that were lost
20:54:20 <frosch123> _Ben_: CSRails or so
20:54:43 <TrueBrain> Rubidium: you were too fast!
20:54:59 <Eddi|zuHause> _Ben_: probably to be found at tycoonez.com
20:57:19 <Rubidium> anyhow the kernel patch was just adding a PCI ID to some table
20:57:23 <_Ben_> frosch123/Eddi|zullause: Yeah thats the one! thanks a lot
20:57:54 <_Ben_> TrueBrain: Hi, havn't spoken to you in quite a while!
20:58:03 <_Ben_> anyway, I must head straight off, chears for that guys
20:58:42 <TrueBrain> not meant bad, but have I ever spoken with him in the first place?
20:58:46 <TrueBrain> poor memory for names
20:59:00 <Eddi|zuHause> ben is 32bpp artist
20:59:11 <TrueBrain> hmmm ... I now have a file with the name �?^T^H^P^[^E
20:59:14 <TrueBrain> how am I going to remove that?
21:00:20 <Eddi|zuHause> ls --show-control-chars | grep -v <anything intelligible> | xargs rm
21:00:39 <TrueBrain> Eddi|zuHause: yeah, used that approach, worked :)
21:02:51 <TrueBrain> guys, I think OpenTTD needs a new approach: STOP TOUCHING ANYTHING ... 3rd person in 2 days complaining about things removed ... (nothing against you PeterT, you are just the 3rd person about something)
21:03:07 <PeterT> Sorry, but I actually used it
21:03:23 <PeterT> who were the first two people, and what did they complain about?
21:03:23 <TrueBrain> so make a local copy :)
21:03:33 <TrueBrain> read back the logs if you care (enough)
21:03:42 <PeterT> that's not a solution, that's just an excuse
21:03:52 <PeterT> it's not like svnup.sh was causing size problems
21:03:53 <TrueBrain> no, it is a solution
21:04:21 <TrueBrain> an excuse sounds like: well, it had to be removed, because ...
21:04:48 <TrueBrain> you can dislike the solution, that is an option :) The other 2 also disliked the solution given :p
21:05:43 <db48x> Rubidium: fixed it. now I'll look into SmallVector
21:05:58 <PeterT> what was the nick of the people that were complaing, TrueBrain?
21:06:12 <TrueBrain> forgot, and don't care (enough)
21:10:42 <Belugas> TrueBrain, not exactly :) we do commit our work in VCS
21:10:57 <TrueBrain> wauw ... progressing company you work for :)
21:11:09 <Yexo> PeterT: the first was luukland
21:11:16 <Rubidium> Belugas: VCS or CVS?
21:11:42 <PeterT> 07:58:37 < Diablo-D3> its not a bad "feature", its just woefully hyperactive.
21:11:42 <PeterT> 07:58:42 < TrueBrain> is this Luukland with another name? :p
21:12:00 <Rubidium> ah... Visual Source Scrammbler :)
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21:15:31 <PeterT> aww, the logs about luukland are just beyond the 1000 line limit
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21:17:05 <frosch123> too bad, you cannot enter any number
21:18:51 <sparrL> someone told me the number of named bus stations in a town affects its growth rate
21:18:58 <sparrL> would that be a server modification or is that normal?
21:20:53 <Rubidium> named as in "independent"?
21:21:26 <Rubidium> then yes, up to a given amount
21:21:55 <frosch123> remove "bus" and add "serviced" instead
21:23:58 <sparrL> so five stations at all?
21:24:06 <sparrL> doesn't matter what they carry, so long as they are visited?
21:25:59 <Eddi|zuHause> oh great, the reflex for applied data destruction struck again
21:26:00 <PeterT> SmtZ: Can you please send me the magic-bulldozer patch they use on the #openttdcoop servers?
21:41:38 <Zuu> Is there a character that is taller than the pipe ( | ) in the normal OpenGFX font?
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21:46:07 <Belugas> yeah, VSS is something not entirely trustworthy
21:46:35 <Belugas> but it keeps on working nicely, so far. just that you need some backuos, in the safe side
21:47:17 <Belugas> besides, OpenTTD had a crash once, using CVS, so nothing is perfect ;)
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21:49:17 <sparrL> so, in addition to 5 stations, do pax/goods delivery matter?
21:49:42 <TrueBrain> Belugas: using SVN, but yes :p
21:49:49 <TrueBrain> and that 'crash' was due to hardware failure
21:50:04 <TrueBrain> and a randsom to access the data again :p
21:50:08 <TrueBrain> apple .. peaches .. :)
21:50:40 <Belugas> SVN? you're sure? i was under the impression that Ludde used CVS
21:50:55 <DorpsGek> TrueBrain: Commit by truelight :: r1 / (202 files in 13 dirs) (2004-08-09 17:04:08 UTC)
21:50:56 <DorpsGek> TrueBrain: Import of revision 975 of old (crashed) SVN
21:50:59 <Rubidium> yeah, before SVN there was CVS
21:51:22 <Belugas> so it was a pre-975 first revisions,then?
21:51:48 <TrueBrain> (damn, I am here 5+ years already? Almost 5.5 .... omg .....)
21:52:03 <TrueBrain> CSV is something completely different :p
21:55:22 <sparrL> what defines "in" a town for the 5 station requirement?
21:56:04 <Eddi|zuHause> the name that is given to the town by default
21:56:31 <Eddi|zuHause> more specifically: the town name that is contained in the default station name
21:57:26 <TrueBrain> cool :) Didn't know you kept that around :)
21:57:37 <orudge> I have a few random checkouts of the old crashed SVN too
21:57:42 <orudge> although not the repository itself, alas
21:57:51 <Eddi|zuHause> yay for never throwing anything away :)
21:58:28 <orudge> TrueBrain: complicated stuff :)
21:58:53 <peter1138> sounds like a rigs of rods commit
21:59:14 <orudge> a guy who was around at the very beginning, basically :p
21:59:59 <orudge> at the time, I think everything was a bit of a free-for-all on the forums
22:00:06 <orudge> a few developers who showed interest were given commit access
22:00:13 <orudge> then Ludde came back as he found people liked things
22:00:17 <orudge> and took matters back into his own hands
22:00:28 <orudge> vurlix and others joined in
22:00:33 <orudge> and OpenTTD as we know it began to take shape
22:00:52 <TrueBrain> tell us more grandpa! :)
22:00:53 <Rubidium> /topic OpenTTD history channel
22:00:54 <TrueBrain> (sorry, I had to :p)
22:01:15 <TrueBrain> LoadSavegame("TRT00.SV0");
22:01:17 <orudge> back in the day though, we still had to go to school every way in the snow uphill both ways though
22:01:32 <Prof_Frink> In the beginning was the Game, and the Game was with Chris, and the Game was Chris.
22:01:44 * andythenorth just lost the game :|
22:01:58 <orudge> and then there was the Ludde who reverse engineered it
22:02:25 <Prof_Frink> orudge: Oi. You just missed the entire Drexler Testament.
22:02:39 * orudge goes to visit the Church
22:03:06 <orudge> along with the "based on the original coding of Oskar Eisemuth"-ified OpenTTD page
22:03:29 <orudge> which I found somewhat ironic, since I thought Oskar wanted to be completely unassociated with OpenTTD
22:04:03 <orudge> And the Lord Chris spake words to Microprose. Saith he: "I've got this rather cool idea for a game," and verily, Microprose saith unto the Lord Chris, "Thou shouldst go for it, chumblybum."
22:04:14 <orudge> And on the fifth day He had a terrific hangover, but still managed to code the computer's Artificial Intelligence. And He looked at the AI algorithms and thought, "These are pretty crappy" but His headache was so bad He left them as they were.
22:05:42 <rait> is that the official version of the story? :)
22:05:53 <orudge> rait: yep, just look at the Bible on that page ;)
22:06:00 <TrueBrain> we as OpenTTD do not acknowledge it!!! :p
22:06:17 <orudge> tsk, you separatists! :p
22:07:05 <andythenorth> I know some people who worked at Microprose in the '90s. Wonder if they know what *really* happened :o
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22:16:36 <Eddi|zuHause> andythenorth: but if they told you, they'd have to shoot you :p
22:19:14 <Eddi|zuHause> the TT manual had some bits in it on how The Game came to be
22:19:25 <Eddi|zuHause> unfortunately, i lost the box with the manual...
22:23:25 <PeterT> Zuu: What version are you using for that?
22:24:05 <PeterT> That's an interesting feature
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22:24:16 <planetmaker> :-P Zuu: you could use yellow as well.
22:24:40 <planetmaker> But the light gray / white background does look quite fine IMO. It's nicely visible but yet not too intrusive
22:24:40 <Zuu> Have to check with the birght yellow text that it is readable.
22:25:11 <planetmaker> You could use green-red for optimal contrast :-P
22:25:18 <planetmaker> Especially a dark green on the default red.
22:25:39 <Zuu> If you use a TTF font will you get the black shadings as you get with the default fonts?
22:25:41 <Eddi|zuHause> especially nice for green-red-blind people :p
22:25:59 <planetmaker> Eddi|zuHause, that's the bonus why I suggested it ;-)
22:26:00 <Zuu> AIs can print in black, light yellow and red.
22:26:00 <Eddi|zuHause> and great eyecandy for the other people :p
22:26:47 <planetmaker> actually that's the reason I already altered the vehicle start/stop buttons in OpenGFX.
22:27:11 <Eddi|zuHause> the colours or the shape?
22:27:11 <planetmaker> red-green impaired people saw no difference between the green and red blob
22:27:22 <planetmaker> now it's a green dot and a red cross
22:27:40 <Eddi|zuHause> an x-cross or a +-cross?
22:28:03 <planetmaker> the latest nightly of OpenGFX should have it ;-)
22:28:27 <Eddi|zuHause> i think there are places where the "zomg, must be different from original" bits are inappropriate
22:28:44 *** [alt]buster is now known as [com]buster
22:29:08 <planetmaker> the green tick is something I tried but NOT use ;-)
22:29:46 <Zuu> Hmm, the yellow text on the white background isn't very good. I can read the text but if there is a font without black shades then those users will have a problem.
22:30:02 <planetmaker> well. yellow on white is always a bad idea
22:30:07 <Terkhen> I was thinking of suggesting something like that cross :)
22:30:45 <planetmaker> there was also the suggestion of a stopp - sign - like shape.
22:30:55 <planetmaker> Alas... undistinguishable from round - which it was before.
22:30:59 <Zuu> Hmm, purple should work quite good. Or pink .. :-p
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22:31:21 <Terkhen> as long as it looks nice and I can distinguish stop from start... :P
22:31:36 <planetmaker> Terkhen, that should now easily be possible x vs o is fine :-)
22:31:56 <planetmaker> we have no food here, NekoMaster
22:32:15 <Eddi|zuHause> planetmaker: could have used "pause" (||) and "play" (>) signs?
22:32:53 <planetmaker> hm... also a good suggestion actually. Yes, I could have, but it'd need re-drawing to the scale of those buttons.
22:33:05 <planetmaker> not a big issue, though.
22:33:40 <Eddi|zuHause> or horizontal and vertical arrow
22:33:52 <planetmaker> I thought about that. I found that not very clear.
22:34:21 <Eddi|zuHause> feature request: stopping aircraft mid-air should make them circle
22:36:04 <planetmaker> hm... if newgrf airports are like industries... could they accept fuel?
22:36:06 <Eddi|zuHause> hm... so i have about 200GB free spread over at least 4 disks... need to increase that to 400GB somehow...
22:36:44 <Rubidium> Eddi|zuHause: rm -rf /media/disk/filme
22:37:08 <planetmaker> sudo rm -rf / is sure to work for 100%
22:37:20 <andythenorth> planetmaker: from what I've seen so far, yes. If they are 'public' using the industry implementation.
22:37:36 <Eddi|zuHause> planetmaker: usually, rm should be protected against removing /
22:37:49 <NekoMaster> that would be cool if depots and ports could except petrol or fuel oil
22:37:50 <planetmaker> Eddi|zuHause, should it for root?
22:38:07 <Eddi|zuHause> planetmaker: it should especially for root...
22:38:25 <Eddi|zuHause> planetmaker: anybody else shouldn't have right to delete / anyway
22:38:47 <Eddi|zuHause> --no-preserve-root
22:39:01 <planetmaker> Eddi|zuHause, easy: make it not writeable for root.
22:40:13 <Eddi|zuHause> Rubidium: that's about 400GB, alright ;)
22:41:11 <SpComb> peter1138: roundup is a is generic build-your-own-issue-tracker toolkit with some kind of weird UI and database features
22:41:23 <Rubidium> I would've gone for at least 260 GIB :)
22:41:45 <SpComb> peter1138: the devs just left in some hardcoded bits by accident, some weird defaults and then some ugly hacked together auxilliary scripts
22:41:53 <andythenorth> bedtime. for me anyway. you lot can choose for yourselves :P
22:42:39 <Eddi|zuHause> Rubidium: luckily that one missed ~/serien, /mnt/zeug/serien and /media/disk/serien ;)
22:42:43 <Zuu> Hmm, why is TC_BLUE more black than TC_BLACK?
22:42:46 <TrueBrain> thank you andythenorth, that is nice of you :)
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22:44:16 <planetmaker> he... he still didn't understand the principle of a bouncer...
22:44:40 <Eddi|zuHause> "ey, du kommst hier nich rein"?
22:45:12 <Eddi|zuHause> "bouncer" == "guy in front of club, that bounces off people"
22:46:07 * Zuu changes back to TC_BLUE to get a black rectangle
22:46:23 <planetmaker> oh... :-) that kind of bouncer
22:47:01 <planetmaker> "ey, alder, Du kommscht ier nischt rrein!" would be propper spelling, though ;-)
22:48:01 <Eddi|zuHause> maybe down south ;)
22:48:23 <Eddi|zuHause> damn... i forgot scrubs again...
22:48:56 <Eddi|zuHause> planetmaker: "kommscht" i would place into swabia...
22:49:58 <Zuu> Btw, does anyoen know why rubyforge is so slow or has I just got the wrong mirror?
22:50:28 <TrueBrain> it always has been slow for me
22:50:35 <Rubidium> Zuu: rubyforge is part of sourceforge?
22:50:50 <Zuu> I don't know if it is a part of sourceforge.
22:51:11 <Zuu> sf at least gives you the files as user of their service.
22:51:46 <Zuu> I uninstalled my ruby installation before I had the installer downloaded, that was a big mistake it seems. :-p
22:52:34 <Zuu> I've got a binary installation now that is just a zip file, but that would require me to set up all the file bindings myself.
22:53:28 <TrueBrain> took 1.1 seconds to download :o
22:53:41 <Eddi|zuHause> weird... i have a backup of a hard drive, and the image is 32GB, but i don't remember ever having a hard drive of that size
22:53:43 <TrueBrain> Zuu: please let me know when I can remove it :)
22:54:03 <Zuu> Took 1-2 seconds from your link. :-)
22:54:17 <TrueBrain> peerings .. you got to love them :)
22:54:38 <NekoMaster> Eddi|zuHause: Its probably just the total size of the files from the HD back up
22:55:01 <TrueBrain> and now I wish you all a very good night
22:55:10 <Eddi|zuHause> NekoMaster: thanks for your very worthless input.
22:55:13 <planetmaker> g'night TrueBrain
22:55:27 <NekoMaster> Hey, im using my knowledge of computers
22:56:31 <Rubidium> yeah, going to bed seems a good thing to do
22:56:49 <planetmaker> indeed. Have everyone a good night. I'm off, too :-)
22:58:57 <Eddi|zuHause> even weirder, when i mount the image, the partition is only 21GB in size...
22:59:39 <Eddi|zuHause> in whatever came to my mind when i made it...
22:59:56 <NekoMaster> I ment the extension
23:00:14 <Eddi|zuHause> exactly what i meant, as well
23:00:16 <NekoMaster> VirtualHardDisk.VHD
23:01:21 <NekoMaster> maybe the hd image is from a Virtual PC program like VBOX or VMware
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23:02:12 <NekoMaster> Eddi|zuHause: maybe the hd image is from a Virtual PC program like VBOX or VMware
23:04:15 <Eddi|zuHause> please, i'm trying to remember when i made this... i know exactly _how_ i made it, because i only ever made these images in one way...
23:06:38 <NekoMaster> any one here on linux?
23:07:17 <NekoMaster> This chat is dead...
23:07:30 <PeterT> you should've seen the amount of people in the past hour
23:07:31 <NekoMaster> I mean, nothing really interesting is being discussed
23:07:55 <PeterT> what's interesting for you is different than what's interesting for others
23:08:11 <NekoMaster> is the chat interesting right now for you Peter?
23:08:13 <Zuu> Anyway I don't understand why I am trying to get the ruby gem win32-clipboard to work. I've already made a c++ program using Win32 API instead..
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23:09:43 <Zuu> (I'm working with a program where the only way to do text-based exports is to copy the out data to the clipboard)
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23:10:10 <NekoMaster> Hmm... so, anyone here on a 32bit linux?
23:10:22 <rait> need testing or something?
23:10:32 <NekoMaster> I made a cargodist build
23:10:36 <Eddi|zuHause> obviously not...
23:10:42 <Zuu> I have two linux 32bit installations, but I seldome use them.
23:10:44 <NekoMaster> its in the cargo dist thread
23:11:07 <Zuu> And possible some more installations laying around on spare HDs.
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23:11:42 <NekoMaster> Is it ok if I post a link here?
23:12:50 <db48x> what do you need to test?
23:12:57 <PeterT> people will test it, NekoMaster
23:13:02 <NekoMaster> I just wanna know if it works for others
23:13:28 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: terkhen * r18984 /trunk/src/ (viewport.cpp viewport_type.h): -Add: Viewport place methods for dragging a line with limited size.
23:13:34 <NekoMaster> I tired it on puppy linux and it wouldn't work, even though nightlies and stables work
23:15:40 <db48x> I'm not going to install a 32bit stdc library for that
23:16:51 <NekoMaster> oh, what do you need it for?
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23:17:21 <db48x> the standard library is what provides all of the standard C functions
23:17:41 <NekoMaster> Yeah, what...will openttd not run with out it?
23:18:03 <db48x> no C program will run without that library
23:18:24 <db48x> but since you produced a 32bit version of the program, I would need to install the 32bit version of the library
23:18:33 <db48x> or you could statically link it
23:18:45 <db48x> not sure if the makefile makes that easy or not
23:19:22 <NekoMaster> statically link it? its gonna still be the same file
23:19:47 <NekoMaster> Im guessing you (db48x) are on a 64 bit distro?
23:20:46 <db48x> yea, looks like you could configure with --enable-static
23:20:51 <Rubidium> statically linking to libc might not be very safe
23:21:18 <Rubidium> especially if libc uses stuff from a kernel that's newer than the kernel you're running on the other machine
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23:22:23 <NekoMaster> Im on Ubuntu 9.10, im not sure about the kernal
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23:24:22 <db48x> anyway, why did it fail under puppy linux?
23:24:46 <Rubidium> because it uses dietlibc or so?
23:25:02 <NekoMaster> even though stables, nightlies, and testing would work
23:25:14 <NekoMaster> I was running openttd 1.0.0 b3
23:25:15 <db48x> well, it should give you an error message of some kind
23:25:31 <NekoMaster> i clicked on it, and it did nothing
23:26:01 <Eddi|zuHause> clicking never gives error messages
23:26:05 <Eddi|zuHause> need to start it from the console
23:26:47 <NekoMaster> Hmm? I don't know how to use the puppy linux consol, since its not based on any other distro
23:26:52 <NekoMaster> its a distro of its own
23:27:16 <Eddi|zuHause> how does that matter?
23:27:58 <NekoMaster> it doesnt use Debian\Ubuntu Terminal or Windows Command Line commands
23:28:04 <Eddi|zuHause> the command to change directories is always "cd", and you start openttd always by "./openttd"
23:28:28 <NekoMaster> anyways, im on Ubuntu Linux right now, Im jsut gonna leave puppy for portable stuff
23:28:39 <NekoMaster> like when I goto school or other peoples places
23:29:23 <Eddi|zuHause> and likely you compiled some dynamic libs where the official binaries use static libs
23:29:24 <Eddi|zuHause> most prominently libicu
23:29:47 <NekoMaster> yeah... its probably missing libraries on Puppy
23:30:13 <Rubidium> or... he linked with a too new libc for puppy
23:30:46 <Rubidium> after all, the compile farm uses Debian Lenny, which is ancient compared to Ubuntu 9.10
23:31:04 <Rubidium> (although arguably more secure)
23:31:40 <Eddi|zuHause> hey, how can ubuntu not be secure!! it has all the latest stuff in it!!
23:31:50 <Rubidium> Eddi|zuHause: right...
23:32:01 <Eddi|zuHause> stuff is so new, people don't even know the loopholes yet! :p
23:32:11 <Rubidium> a fix for CVE-2009-4007?
23:32:24 <Rubidium> after all, they don't even package 0.7.5 (or 0.7.4)
23:32:57 <Rubidium> but Debian Lenny has a fix for CVE-2009-4007
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23:33:38 <NekoMaster> hmm.... It would be cool if there was a patch to simulate real world econimy
23:34:11 <Eddi|zuHause> you mean "totally ruin everybody every 6-10 years"?
23:34:29 <NekoMaster> 1928 > Start of great depression
23:34:46 <Rubidium> Eddi|zuHause: 0% interest loans ofcourse
23:34:49 <NekoMaster> 1970's to 1980's > Oil Scare (Depression)
23:35:07 <NekoMaster> Around 2009 > Ression
23:35:32 <NekoMaster> the lenght of the ressions and depressions would depend on which country you pick
23:35:55 <NekoMaster> that way if your trying to play Japan, you wont get the same effects that USA did or the UK
23:36:08 <SmatZ> you start building commercial transport company
23:36:10 <NekoMaster> Though, theres no north korean set yet
23:36:14 <SmatZ> you get jailed and shot
23:36:30 <Eddi|zuHause> so, if i pick germany, the map is divided in half after a while?
23:36:58 <NekoMaster> um, that would be more like a Bondry Patch, where it might show real boundries or simulated ones
23:37:08 <Rubidium> hmm, Japan isn't hit by last year's shit?
23:37:20 <Rubidium> sorry, but you need to redo your research
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23:37:45 <Eddi|zuHause> something's wrong with my connection
23:38:04 <Rubidium> Eddi|zuHause: and for Iceland you've got a multi-billion dollar loan? :)
23:38:07 <NekoMaster> But, when ression and depression comes around, industires may close down, some town buildings might be demolished,
23:38:12 <NekoMaster> ther would be inflation
23:38:18 <NekoMaster> so stuff would cost alot more
23:38:29 <Rubidium> Eddi|zuHause: your connection is saying that you need some sleep
23:38:47 <NekoMaster> If you're on WIFI that may be the problem
23:39:23 <Rubidium> anyhow, a bit of inflation isn't bad
23:39:40 <Rubidium> lots of inflation, very little inflation or deflation are bad
23:40:04 <Eddi|zuHause> high inflation is actually considered good for the economy, because the cost of workforce decreases
23:40:26 <NekoMaster> one way to simulate inflation of the Dollar is change your currency to custome, use the $ symbol, and instead of 2 USD to a GBP make it a bit higher like 3 or 4 USD to a GBP
23:40:27 <Eddi|zuHause> that's why they tried to keep inflation high after WWI
23:40:55 <NekoMaster> it doesnt have to be the dollar anyways, it could be DM, Francs, Yen
23:41:16 <Rubidium> Eddi|zuHause: but there's a point where it isn't good anymore, e.g. Zimbabwe
23:41:32 <Eddi|zuHause> of course they had no idea how things work, so they caused a hyperinflation
23:41:50 <NekoMaster> Well, if inflation happen but the econemy was still good, then nothing bad happen
23:42:06 * Rubidium wonders whether NekoMaster has any real knowledge about economy
23:42:26 * NekoMaster is a 17yr old gr12 (senior) student
23:42:39 <Rubidium> changing the exchange rate has nothing to do with inflation
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23:43:26 <NekoMaster> I know that, but when inflation happens the numbers for money seam bigger
23:43:38 <NekoMaster> even if its the same currency
23:43:38 <Eddi|zuHause> have you heard? in 2010, germany is finally free of debt from WWI ;)
23:44:02 <NekoMaster> Is anyone here from Germany?
23:45:47 <Eddi|zuHause> fun fact: in every country of the world, the passports state the country of origin ("Austria", "France", etc.). except in germany the passports say "german" and not "Germany"
23:45:52 <Yexo> * Rubidium wonders whether NekoMaster has any real knowledge about economy <- I'm not wondering anymore, not after <NekoMaster> I know that, but when inflation happens the numbers for money seam bigger
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23:46:40 <NekoMaster> Ok, fine, tell me how it works
23:47:18 <SmatZ> Yexo: I failed with ENOPARSE with that sentence
23:48:21 <Yexo> I'll just get some sleep I think
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23:48:59 <Eddi|zuHause> that has to do with WWII and it's outcome, because the german nationality is derived from "living in german empire on 31.12.1937", but that state doesn't exist anymore
23:49:04 <SmatZ> Yexo: I mean the original sentence, not yours :)
23:49:35 <Yexo> but it's still getting late :p
23:50:54 <NekoMaster> Here its only 6:50PM (-5GMT)
23:51:05 <NekoMaster> but its already pretty dark
23:51:22 <NekoMaster> which is one reson to hate winter
23:51:42 <Zuu> Then you are not very far north if it is only "pretty dark" at 6:50 :-)
23:51:44 <Eddi|zuHause> neither of the post-WWII german states are official decendents of the german empire, and citizens of both states had a shared nationality
23:52:01 <NekoMaster> I like on the shore of Lake Ontario in the City Of Oshawa
23:52:16 <NekoMaster> its about a 40 Minute Drive on the high way to Toronto
23:53:11 <Eddi|zuHause> then Zuu is probably further north than you :p
23:53:32 <Rubidium> Eddi|zuHause: so someone born in Western Poland could get German in his/her passport?
23:53:44 <Zuu> I checked up Vancouver, Canada is about the same amount north as north Germany.
23:54:08 <Zuu> And the border between Canada and US is quite flat (north-south-wise) I think.
23:54:56 <Eddi|zuHause> Rubidium: no, the rule is "person or ancestor must have been living in germany on 31.12.1937"
23:55:59 <Eddi|zuHause> i have read the exact paragraph somewhere...
23:56:17 <Rubidium> Eddi|zuHause: but if my grandfather was born in Western Poland on 30-12-1937?
23:56:32 <Rubidium> (what is now Western Poland ofcourse)
23:56:42 <Eddi|zuHause> Rubidium: yes, that would count
23:58:03 <Eddi|zuHause> # Weil Frankfurt so groß ist, so teilt man's in zwei ein
23:58:15 <Eddi|zuHause> # In Frankfurt an der Oder und Frankfurt am Main
23:59:37 <Eddi|zuHause> __ln__: not the version i heard...
continue to next day ⏵
