IRC logs for #openttd on OFTC at 2010-01-06
⏴ go to previous day
00:16:03 *** [com]buster has joined #openttd
00:22:16 *** [com]buster is now known as Combuster
00:24:06 *** DarkED2 has joined #openttd
00:30:17 *** Yexo is now known as Guest866
00:32:34 *** Eddi|zuHause has joined #openttd
00:38:22 *** Coco-Banana-Man has quit IRC
00:38:40 *** Combuster has joined #openttd
00:46:09 *** Rubix`` has joined #openttd
00:50:25 *** lws1984 has joined #openttd
00:53:48 *** KenjiE20|LT has joined #openttd
01:21:41 *** Combuster has joined #openttd
01:33:24 <SpComb> peter1138: careful with those negative packets
01:44:46 *** Rubix`` has joined #openttd
02:03:50 *** [com]buster has joined #openttd
02:03:53 *** [com]buster is now known as Combuster
02:26:36 *** [com]buster has joined #openttd
02:26:40 *** [com]buster is now known as Combuster
02:47:22 *** [com]buster has joined #openttd
02:47:26 *** [com]buster is now known as Combuster
03:10:02 *** [com]buster has joined #openttd
03:10:06 *** [com]buster is now known as Combuster
03:11:35 *** roboboy has joined #openttd
03:32:42 *** [com]buster has joined #openttd
03:32:45 *** [com]buster is now known as Combuster
03:55:44 *** Combuster has joined #openttd
04:17:48 *** [com]buster has joined #openttd
04:17:51 *** [com]buster is now known as Combuster
04:38:49 *** ChanServ sets mode: +v tokai
04:39:21 *** [com]buster has joined #openttd
04:43:51 *** [com]buster is now known as Combuster
05:01:08 *** [com]buster has joined #openttd
05:01:11 *** [com]buster is now known as Combuster
05:22:54 *** [com]buster has joined #openttd
05:22:57 *** [com]buster is now known as Combuster
05:42:43 <Jara> Question, i have set "restart_game_date = 2052" yet it resets after one year in 1961 where 1960 was the date it started in a multiplayer game. Dit i do somting wrong or do i just dont get it >..<
05:45:32 *** [com]buster has joined #openttd
05:46:18 *** [com]buster is now known as Combuster
06:17:53 *** Singaporekid has joined #openttd
06:26:36 *** [com]buster has joined #openttd
06:26:40 *** [com]buster is now known as Combuster
07:00:39 *** Cybertinus has joined #openttd
07:09:38 *** [com]buster has joined #openttd
07:09:41 *** [com]buster is now known as Combuster
07:19:20 <peter1138> restart_game_date is not a recognised option
07:19:23 <peter1138> restart_game_year is
07:19:41 <peter1138> (maybe it was changed at some point)
07:31:24 *** [com]buster has joined #openttd
07:31:28 *** [com]buster is now known as Combuster
07:32:16 *** Terkhen has joined #openttd
07:41:28 *** Brianetta has joined #openttd
07:53:27 *** Combuster has joined #openttd
08:15:33 *** Combuster has joined #openttd
08:17:01 <Xaroth> I think Combuster has some connection issues
08:17:54 <sawtooth> shame that i've got all the joins parts and quits ignored but not the nick changes
08:18:04 *** fonsinchen has joined #openttd
08:18:29 <sawtooth> at least it is a lot less spammy than it could be otherwise
08:27:15 <sparr> shhh, you're interrupting the pattern!
08:28:22 <sawtooth> you'll just have to ignore the non-silence
08:28:36 <peter1138> why is my masquerade rule not working right?
08:37:36 *** Combuster has joined #openttd
08:37:57 *** JVassie has joined #openttd
08:43:40 *** andythenorth has joined #openttd
08:57:11 <Zoney> hows the transport going?
09:03:38 *** worldemar2 is now known as woldemar
09:05:26 *** worldemar has joined #openttd
09:06:10 *** worldemar has joined #openttd
09:08:56 <CIA-2> OpenTTD: yexo * r18739 /trunk/src/tree_cmd.cpp: -Fix (r18719): building trees on snow with rocks underneed caused an assert
09:14:25 * andythenorth working on that industry with an airport...
09:38:25 *** Combuster has joined #openttd
09:42:04 <andythenorth> Yexo: I've got an industry for you
09:42:11 <andythenorth> not pretty, but that wasn't a requirement :|
09:58:34 *** Nite_Owl has joined #openttd
10:01:03 *** [com]buster has joined #openttd
10:01:06 *** [com]buster is now known as Combuster
10:04:09 *** Grelouk has joined #openttd
10:05:22 *** ajmiles has joined #openttd
10:05:30 *** |Terkhen| has joined #openttd
10:07:39 *** Terkhen is now known as Guest922
10:07:39 *** |Terkhen| is now known as Terkhen
10:21:15 *** roboboy has joined #openttd
10:23:40 *** [com]buster has joined #openttd
10:24:34 *** [com]buster is now known as Combuster
10:27:57 *** Terkhen has joined #openttd
10:35:44 *** Nite_Owl has joined #openttd
10:38:47 *** Nite_Owl has joined #openttd
10:39:25 <Terkhen> this is weird... the function I need to profile is not showing up at gprof: at first I thought that it was because the function is declared at a new header file, but other functions from that header show up correctly
10:42:04 <peter1138> probably optimised into something else
10:44:44 <Terkhen> okay... I'll try to find it
10:46:20 *** [com]buster has joined #openttd
10:50:44 *** [com]buster is now known as Combuster
10:52:09 *** |Terkhen| has joined #openttd
11:02:49 *** Cameron has joined #openttd
11:04:20 *** blinkiz has joined #openttd
11:05:08 <blinkiz> Hello. Am totally new to OpenTTD and have a question. How do I rotate the camera?
11:05:31 <blinkiz> I only see the world in one direction at the moment.
11:05:44 <blinkiz> Does anyone understand what I mean?
11:05:46 *** valhallasw has joined #openttd
11:06:57 <blinkiz> Goulp, Then.. How do I zoom in even more then standard?
11:07:28 <Goulp> by puting your eyes near your screen should be ok
11:07:28 <peter1138> you can't do that either
11:08:56 *** Combuster has joined #openttd
11:09:02 <Goulp> or use an external zoom in program
11:29:43 *** [com]buster has joined #openttd
11:35:01 *** [com]buster is now known as Combuster
11:51:26 <roboboy> If I try to clone a train whose wagon is obsolete it fails to clone. Would it be possible to alow me to say clone just the loco so I clone the orders. That would be useful for cloning crashed trains that dissapear.
11:54:09 <Rubidium> roboboy: just build a new train and share orders
11:57:38 <Zuu> blinkiz: Try ctrl+x - there you can toggle what should be transparent / invisible. In case there is trees or something else hindering your view.
11:58:15 <Eddi|zuHause> roboboy/Rubidium: my suggestion is to take autoreplace rules into account when cloning
11:58:57 <Zuu> If you ctrl + click on one of the buttons with an icon, you will put a lock on the state of that button (in the transparency dialog)
11:59:21 <Zuu> Non-locked icon buttons will be toggled when you press the x-key.
11:59:24 <Eddi|zuHause> also try the "X" key ;)
12:00:53 <roboboy> hm that is a nice idea Eddi|zuHause
12:00:54 <Rubidium> Eddi|zuHause: and that is?
12:01:18 <Rubidium> oh, autoreplace settings
12:01:46 <peter1138> bah, network-manager sucks
12:01:51 <peter1138> i wanted to use it to set up a vpn
12:01:57 <peter1138> but it needs to take over eth0 as well
12:02:12 <Rubidium> good old /etc/ppp to the rescue :)
12:02:27 <peter1138> yeah, i've got to figure out how to do it manually :s
12:08:23 *** KenjiE20 has joined #openttd
12:11:28 *** _Terkhen_ has joined #openttd
12:14:32 *** Devedse has joined #openttd
12:32:46 <rane> how do you guys "post-process" giant screenshots? :P
12:33:10 <Rubidium> not :), just post it on my server and let people open it with their browser
12:33:45 <rane> I'd like to show some parts of it to someone but it's too big to be cropped with an editor
12:33:50 *** frosch123 has joined #openttd
12:34:49 <rane> at least Paint.NET couldn't handle it
12:35:40 <Eddi|zuHause> the problem is, most viewers or editors just try to inflate the whole picture into ram, which can exceed the available memory quite easily
12:37:38 <planetmaker> rotated and probably scaled giant screen shot - with a decent image processing tool ;-)
12:37:55 <planetmaker> possibly also de-skewed
12:38:00 <Ammler> Osai: did that, I guess with photoshop
12:38:52 <Eddi|zuHause> that looks like the original map generator...
12:40:02 <Rubidium> Eddi|zuHause: it likely isn't; too many roughness in the middle of the map
12:40:12 <Rubidium> more likely they levelled quite a bit
12:40:31 <Eddi|zuHause> but it clearly shows repeated patterns
12:41:09 <Eddi|zuHause> and TGP rarely generates rectangular lines
12:41:21 <peter1138> looks like a fair amount of landscaping too
12:41:43 <Rubidium> Eddi|zuHause: you mean the rectangle just NW of the center?
12:41:45 <peter1138> i'd guess TGP with lots of flattening, actually
12:42:22 <Rubidium> just notice the industry there, looks like they were (once) preparing to build a station there
12:43:03 <Eddi|zuHause> no, i mean the amount of rectangular landscape spread over the whole map
12:43:03 <Rubidium> same with the flat square just SE of the SW corner of the inner rail ring
12:43:15 <rane> hmm, is it possible to have dedicated server make yearly/monthy autosaves?
12:43:41 <Eddi|zuHause> rane: yes, dedicated server makes autosaves the same way as a client
12:43:52 <rane> but not by default, it seems
12:44:13 <Eddi|zuHause> Ammler: that one looks very fuzzy...
12:45:02 <Eddi|zuHause> rane: there should be a setting from the console
12:46:17 <Eddi|zuHause> that looks like monthly autosave
12:46:50 <rane> yeah, autosave = monthly
12:49:13 <rane> btw, 1.0.0-beta crashes when taking a giant screenshot on w7, known issue?
12:52:05 <rane> didn't notice there's a new one
13:00:01 <Eddi|zuHause> does it crash with an actual error?
13:00:06 <CIA-2> OpenTTD: rubidium * r18740 /extra/website/general/utils/ (binaries.py version.py): [Website] -Fix: looks like Python's URL lib doesn't like redirects
13:08:59 <rane> Eddi|zuHause: Message: <none>
13:09:18 * roboboy didnt realise OpenTTD 0.1.1 was available for download from an official source
13:09:40 <Rubidium> rane: is the crash reproducable?
13:09:59 <Eddi|zuHause> rane: and does windows keep logs if it kills a process for out of memory?
13:10:01 <rane> crashes every time on my system
13:10:13 <Eddi|zuHause> rane: on any map size?
13:10:23 <roboboy> how do I add a train to a new group?
13:10:36 <Eddi|zuHause> roboboy: draggin
13:10:40 <rane> Eddi|zuHause: didn't crash on smallest
13:11:47 <Rubidium> do you have any NewGRF? Does it happen on a freshly created map without NewGRFs?
13:11:47 <roboboy> would it be posible to highlight the draged group or something to make it obvious that the train was succesfuly added?
13:12:14 <Eddi|zuHause> a 2048x2048 big screenshot might exceed 4GB memory quite easily
13:12:30 <Rubidium> roboboy: possibly, yes... whether it's likely to happen is something totally different
13:13:20 *** Grelouk_ has joined #openttd
13:14:02 <Rubidium> hmm, making a big screenshot in a full debug build... not a good idea
13:14:16 <Eddi|zuHause> roboboy: the group name should appear above the vehicle (if it doesn't have a custom name)
13:14:42 <Rubidium> anyhow, no big screenshot crash for me
13:14:47 <Eddi|zuHause> i occasionally miss selecting multiple vehicles
13:14:59 <Eddi|zuHause> filemanager-style
13:16:24 *** mib_o347nk has joined #openttd
13:16:37 <roboboy> OpenTTD crashes for me on Win 7 when taking a giant screenshot on a 512x1024 Multi Player map
13:16:47 <roboboy> I get no crash window at all
13:16:59 <planetmaker> crash or just disconnect, roboboy ?
13:17:02 <rane> I couldn't make it crash on single player
13:17:09 <roboboy> hm no crash it disconnected
13:17:20 <roboboy> as I ended up at the title screen
13:17:23 <planetmaker> well. No wonder. That's normal.
13:17:24 <Eddi|zuHause> like i said, i suspect out of memory
13:17:36 <planetmaker> you get kicked as your computer is not fast enough and you lag too much
13:17:56 <rane> I don't think it's any out of memory issue in my case
13:18:14 <roboboy> I shall try in beta 2 on a local game
13:18:28 <Eddi|zuHause> Rubidium/frosch123: not sure if that covers all of it: www.informatik.uni-halle.de/~krause/settings1.diff
13:18:57 <Eddi|zuHause> i'm open to discussion ;)
13:21:06 <rane> 'NewGRF settings' button is buggy in multiplayer window
13:21:30 <Ammler> rane: because you can't use it there
13:21:51 <rane> I don't know about that, but it's still buggy
13:22:06 <rane> visibility toggles on and off as I click refresh button
13:22:42 <planetmaker> Eddi|zuHause, extra_dynamite shouldn't be on by default
13:23:07 <planetmaker> it destroys industries and so on, if towns grow. Quite unwanted
13:23:52 <Eddi|zuHause> it's not the magic bulldozer cheat
13:23:57 <Rubidium> planetmaker: uhm.. no, it doesn't
13:23:59 <Eddi|zuHause> it's the setting that allows town roads
13:24:18 <Eddi|zuHause> ones that go in circles
13:24:30 <Ammler> Eddi|zuHause: enable the gui for signal waiting?
13:24:38 <peter1138> i prefer to leave that one on
13:24:47 <planetmaker> Eddi|zuHause, which roads? Sorry, I don't know what it does then. What does it?
13:24:48 <peter1138> stops idiots completely removing towns in MP
13:25:07 <peter1138> and the signal gui is just annoying
13:25:28 <peter1138> make path signals default, and don't cycle non-path signals
13:25:52 <Eddi|zuHause> it cycles all signals, i didn't change that
13:25:55 <andythenorth> something made one way path signals default. that was annoying
13:25:58 <Ammler> hmm, I meant the signal waiting times in the advanced setting gui
13:26:14 <andythenorth> grr photoshop quit
13:26:19 <Eddi|zuHause> Ammler: i understand, but that's kinda out of scope here
13:26:23 <andythenorth> I want to put Zephyris' wind turbine into firs
13:26:31 <andythenorth> seeing as it's snowing
13:26:32 <roboboy> where are the waiting time settings under advanced settings?
13:26:42 <andythenorth> I should be coding a 4 week moving sales average chart, but hey
13:26:50 <Eddi|zuHause> roboboy: they aren't there, that's part of the problem ;)
13:26:53 <rane> Rubidium, giant screenshot on LAN game beta1: crash, beta2: disconnection
13:27:10 <planetmaker> rane: disconnect != crash
13:27:11 <Rubidium> rane: so it's already fixed
13:27:20 <rane> however, the beta2 game is fresh
13:27:20 <roboboy> I went looking for the earlier
13:27:35 <Ammler> oh, sparr posted a savegame yesterday missed that
13:27:50 <Ammler> peter1138: did you find the "issue" about returning on signals?
13:28:27 <rane> do you want me to create a ticket about the buggy newgrf settings button on multiplayer window?
13:28:33 <planetmaker> what does gui.station_dragdrop change?
13:29:13 <peter1138> planetmaker, dragdrop mode...
13:29:27 <peter1138> whatever you pick in the station builder gui is remembered and saved
13:30:03 <Eddi|zuHause> i wish it remembered the newgrf station category as well
13:30:28 <Eddi|zuHause> whenever i load a game, it's back to the default station
13:31:14 <planetmaker> well... I see no point why to disable the drag mode or its remembering
13:31:49 <planetmaker> besides I miss all settings related to turning on signals.
13:32:00 <frosch123> pause_on_newgame :/ who uses that?
13:32:04 <planetmaker> it should be disabled always, e.g. wait infinitely.
13:32:09 <planetmaker> frosch123, that's useful
13:32:40 <frosch123> pf.yapf.rail_firstred_twoway_eol <- i have no idea about the bigger picture of that :p
13:32:50 <SmatZ> you can save the game just after world generation
13:33:05 <planetmaker> it will break much of our buildings, if that's set to false
13:33:19 <SmatZ> frosch123: very useful setting for openttdcoop games ;)
13:33:46 <Ammler> not only for coop games ;-)
13:34:17 <planetmaker> :-) Indeed. It allows to influence the choice of tracks by choosing one-way and two-way signals in a well-defined manner
13:34:30 <planetmaker> But then... having it to true might confuse newbies.
13:34:57 <andythenorth> frosch123: I always use pause on newgame
13:35:32 <Ammler> andythenorth: annoying feature, if you like to quickly test something...
13:35:44 <CIA-2> OpenTTD: rubidium * r18741 /trunk/src/lang/afrikaans.txt: -Fix (r14597, r16460): the 'ownname' of a language isn't the name of the translator, but the name of the language in said language.
13:35:44 <andythenorth> how does tile animation work anyway
13:36:36 <Ammler> since there is the tree view gui for the settings, couldn't be EVERY setting in the gui?
13:37:52 <andythenorth> meh, Chrome is junk
13:38:06 <frosch123> Ammler: esp. the game options do not fit into the tree
13:38:17 <frosch123> where should the descriptions of the game settings go?
13:38:18 <Eddi|zuHause> <planetmaker> it will break much of our buildings, if that's set to false <-- well. but the coop people know how to change the setting ;)
13:38:46 <frosch123> and changing the resolution everytime you press "<" or ">" will cause lots of problems, when the resolution is not available
13:38:55 <Ammler> frosch123: I meant specially settings like penalties and such
13:39:30 <frosch123> euh.. i really prefer to hide those details
13:39:43 <Ammler> and a indicator which shows, if the value differs from default would be nice, too.
13:40:18 *** Taytay_ is now known as Taytay
13:40:34 <Rubidium> Ammler: can be done, is it better for the normal user? Most likely not
13:40:37 <Ammler> frosch123: if you don't open that branch, it _is_ hidden.
13:41:11 <Ammler> or a checkbox (advance view)
13:41:32 <Rubidium> but what is advanced and what isn't?
13:41:46 <Rubidium> I reckon you'd end up with multiple levels
13:41:52 <Ammler> those, which you hide now
13:42:01 <frosch123> pathfinder penalties are at the very end of the advancedness-scale
13:42:17 <Rubidium> cause some of the settings now shown should probably also be not shown for the noobiest of the noobs
13:42:46 *** fonsinchen has joined #openttd
13:42:52 <KenjiE20> could do what 'xine' does, and have a dropdown with 'user level'; beginner -> master of the known universe
13:42:53 <frosch123> he, and some settings should also not be shown just beause changing them is pointless (like full date in status bar) :p
13:43:13 * andythenorth baffled by tile animation, even though it must be very simple....more wiki time
13:43:34 <Eddi|zuHause> <frosch123> pf.yapf.rail_firstred_twoway_eol <- i have no idea about the bigger picture of that :p <-- the problem is, someone who naively places twoway block signals can easily run into a situation where trains run down a totally senseless route instead of waiting for the signal to turn green, if it's the only path to the destination
13:43:35 <Ammler> frosch123: sometimes just seeing those is nice
13:43:48 <Ammler> most values aren't changeable anyway in mp mode.
13:44:42 <frosch123> Ammler: yup, the full-date-in-statusbar-issue is mostly solved by the treeview :)
13:45:58 <frosch123> however, looking at other software, usually the settings are not directly in the tree, but a tree is used to select a settings-page which could also contain more complex settings like those from the game options
13:46:18 <frosch123> i.e. imo some of the gameoptions would fit nicely in the interface section
13:46:34 <Eddi|zuHause> <planetmaker> it should be disabled always, e.g. wait infinitely. <-- no, i don't think that should be the case. the PBS-reversing needs to be fixed to be less stuck-prone
13:46:49 <Ammler> some adv. setting would fit to difficult settings, some to cheat etc...
13:47:08 <Eddi|zuHause> yeah, you try this cheat discussion this time :p
13:47:49 <Ammler> setting templates would be nice ;-)
13:48:04 <Eddi|zuHause> last time the devs gave up and made the no-elrail-cheat into an advanced setting ;)
13:48:17 <frosch123> well, if you trash the easy-/medium-/hard- profiles you can also integrate them all into the tree
13:48:34 <frosch123> (i never liked them)
13:49:18 <Eddi|zuHause> each setting should have a "difficulty" setting attached to it (like 0%, 30%, 70%, 100%), and the geometric mean of all difficulties taken
13:49:18 <Ammler> frosch123: yes, could be done with templates
13:49:22 <frosch123> [14:48] <Ammler> setting templates would be nice ;-) <- but they are not very useful if you store all settings
13:49:36 <Eddi|zuHause> then not every change would end up being "custom"
13:49:43 <Eddi|zuHause> but that's a rather huge task
13:49:57 <frosch123> Eddi|zuHause: what is the difficulty of "allow multiple newgrf-engines sets" or "no service if no breakdowns" ?
13:50:14 <Ammler> those aren't in that "set"
13:50:18 <Eddi|zuHause> frosch123: "invalid" ;)
13:50:39 <andythenorth> incidentally 'allow multiple newgrf-engine sets' must really baffle players when it is constantly referred to as 'the engine pool'
13:51:10 <frosch123> andythenorth: actually the reference as "engine pool" is wrong :p
13:51:19 <Eddi|zuHause> andythenorth: it's not even an appropriate name, as the engine pool is enabled anyway ;)
13:52:52 <frosch123> maybe we should add some "if you don't know what this is, leave it to <bla>" to the tooltips
13:53:08 <frosch123> hmm, though now i wonder whether there are actually tooltips
13:53:20 <Eddi|zuHause> it might be generally useful to have a "set to default" button
13:53:50 <Eddi|zuHause> between the <> buttons, possibly
13:54:19 <Ammler> yes, and only active, if the value does differ, so you have the indicator with it.
13:55:03 <frosch123> doesn't sounds that bad, that might also allow stuff like pathfinder penalties
13:55:05 *** Progman has joined #openttd
13:56:41 <Ammler> changing penalty defaults is a very dangerous thing for regular players, btw.
13:57:18 *** oskari89 has joined #openttd
13:57:55 <peter1138> add a button for all options; default
13:57:58 <andythenorth> ok I give up on the wiki for an explanation of tile animation. what do need to do?
13:58:13 <andythenorth> (newgrf, in case that can't be assumed by now)
13:58:31 <frosch123> what do you want to do? :p
13:58:55 <peter1138> animated tiles? callback magic
13:58:57 <andythenorth> just cycle through sprites
13:59:10 <andythenorth> I assume that somewhere I provide an ordered list of action 2 IDs
13:59:18 <frosch123> lineary with constant frame length?
14:00:05 <frosch123> so tile property 0f and 10
14:00:35 <Eddi|zuHause> i thought animation was a callback that returns the new frame number
14:00:42 <frosch123> and tile variable 44
14:00:58 <frosch123> i guess no callbacks needed
14:01:33 <Eddi|zuHause> like if current frame is "k", and you have "n" frames you do "if (k==n) return 0 else return k+1"
14:01:52 <andythenorth> makes complete sense
14:02:00 <andythenorth> somehow I missed the variable 44
14:02:00 <frosch123> Eddi|zuHause: you can do that, but if it is only lineary you do not have to (iirc)
14:03:08 <Eddi|zuHause> yeah, but this way you can extend to more complex animations
14:03:32 <andythenorth> that can happen later :)
14:03:51 <Eddi|zuHause> it might be even easier with "return (k+1) mod n"
14:04:18 <Eddi|zuHause> that might be a single varaction 2
14:04:25 <frosch123> but that is what happens if you do not need any callback (iirc)
14:06:38 <Eddi|zuHause> man i have a headache today...
14:06:47 <Eddi|zuHause> and i don't know why
14:06:54 <andythenorth> let's see if I can make a wind turbine then
14:07:40 <Eddi|zuHause> let them do a "*fwump*" noise every n frames ;)
14:11:53 *** mib_o347nk has left #openttd
14:25:20 <peter1138> whatever happened to drivethrough depots?
14:37:22 <Yexo> <andythenorth> Yexo: I've got an industry for you <- nice :)
14:37:43 <andythenorth> Yexo: what do you need from me?
14:37:50 <andythenorth> It's compiled into FIRS at the moment
14:37:56 <andythenorth> I can separate it
14:38:02 <Yexo> seperate would be easier for me
14:42:24 <rane> damn, still can't make anything useful out of a giant screenshot because it's just too damn big for any editor I've tried
14:43:39 <Madis> you aren't trying 2048^2? are you?
14:43:41 *** Singaporekid has joined #openttd
14:44:22 <andythenorth> oh poop, I've forgotten how to use grfcodec (embarassed). I'm too used to make files
14:45:06 *** JVassie has joined #openttd
14:45:33 <planetmaker> <Eddi|zuHause> man i have a headache today... <-- don't drink and derive ;-)
14:45:38 <Madis> haven't used it in.. 7-8 months
14:45:56 <Madis> yeh, deriving is awful, think for your self :P
14:51:30 <andythenorth> Yexo: hmm...I'm stuck on grfcodec....wanted to check this nfo builds before I send it to you :(
14:53:07 <Yexo> to be honest I use the openttdcopo makefiles too :p
14:53:11 <andythenorth> sorry, some kind of stupid path issues here
14:53:25 <andythenorth> how do you want the files?
14:59:05 <Yexo> a zip of all needed nfo (non-prepprocessed if possible) and pcx files?
14:59:45 <andythenorth> pm or forum upload?
15:00:09 <Yexo> both is fine with me, whatever you want
15:00:29 <Yexo> if forum upload just make it clear that it doesn't work yet, that safes some bug reports
15:01:18 *** Coco-Banana-Man has joined #openttd
15:05:21 <Yexo> on tt-forums? didn't get it yet
15:09:00 <andythenorth> Yexo: try now :)
15:09:23 <andythenorth> FIRS Wind turbine - animation works :)
15:11:52 <Yexo> another thing I should work on for airports
15:11:58 <Yexo> spec is done, implementation not
15:12:27 <andythenorth> who needs animated radomes anyway?
15:12:38 <edeca> "ice on the conductor rail" means that trains cannot stop at one station on my route home. Why don't they just send someone to polish it! :)
15:16:26 <CIA-2> OpenTTD: yexo * r18742 /trunk/src/newgrf.cpp: -Fix [NewGRF]: house prop 1D was thrashed when a newgrf contains prop 14 after prop 1D
15:18:16 <glx> it cannot stop but can pass through ?
15:18:40 * Rubidium slaps orudge... adding snow I don't have it and removing it when I have it :(
15:20:35 <edeca> glx: Heh yes, I don't understand that. Perhaps they rely on momentum
15:24:25 <Yexo> andythenorth: it's missing action0 for tile E1
15:24:40 <Yexo> and it misses the text IDs DC90 and DCE9
15:28:34 *** wysiwtf has joined #openttd
15:29:13 <wysiwtf> first congratz for hitting the 1.0
15:29:25 <wysiwtf> i lamost forgot about this great game
15:30:16 <wysiwtf> but where does the windows version store its downloaded content?
15:30:47 <wysiwtf> i was trying to copy the openttd folder to my workstation @ work but it didnt copy the ai/grf/etc stuff i downloaded
15:31:11 <wysiwtf> and downloading it again wont work since the downloader seems to use some odd port our firewall doesnt like
15:31:19 <Yexo> My Documents/OpenTTD/online_content/
15:31:37 <wysiwtf> can i copy that directly into the game directory?
15:31:48 <wysiwtf> or wont it be found there?
15:32:10 <Yexo> just put all files from online_content/data/ in the data/ directory, etc.
15:32:23 <Yexo> create any directories that don't exist yet
15:32:56 <frosch123> or just ~/.openttd/content_download
15:33:29 <Yexo> but where does the windows version store its downloaded content? <- that's doesn't work too well on windows
15:33:58 <frosch123> hmm, ok "workstation" implies some unix-like for me :p
15:34:23 <Yexo> well yes, but in that case I suppose he wouldn't be trying to copy his windows executable
15:36:51 <wysiwtf> but openttd is the perfect game for in-between :)
15:37:07 <wysiwtf> its not too fancy ont he hardware and yet more interesting than all the flash stuff
15:37:35 <wysiwtf> is there a possibility to configure the listenport on the multiplayer part?
15:37:52 <wysiwtf> probably not since i havent seen a port option upon connect
15:38:17 <Yexo> have you lookedin openttd.cfg?
15:38:18 <roboboy> I think there is hidden away in OpenTTD.cfg
15:38:21 <Yexo> should be there somewhere
15:38:57 <roboboy> we could perhaps do with a config search command in the console
15:40:37 <roboboy> ive always misunderstood the use of the term variable in OpenTTD's console it seems then
15:41:02 *** mib_5qg2er has joined #openttd
15:41:18 <andythenorth> Yexo: sent you another pm with files...
15:42:47 <wysiwtf> and i found the server port var
15:43:38 <wysiwtf> i take it the client also uses that variable to connect to other servers not just for incoming connections?
15:43:50 <Yexo> it's only used for incoming connections
15:44:16 <Yexo> if you connect to other clients via the multiplayer window it'll get the port to connect to from the masterserver
15:44:45 <Yexo> not sure if local lan discovery will work if you use a different port though
15:46:46 <Yexo> /!!Warning (97): Set 03 defined by the previous Action 1 (sprite 5) has not been used.
15:48:09 <Yexo> and //!!For feature 9 the following cargoIDs have not been used since their most recent definition: 02
15:49:31 <wysiwtf> usually i just specify the lan-ip i want to connect to
15:49:41 <wysiwtf> of course i can specify it like <ip>:<port>
15:49:48 <Yexo> I was about to say that :p
15:49:49 <wysiwtf> i just hope openttd understands =)
15:51:57 <wysiwtf> so if i understand correctly the new stuff like trams and magnetic rails are only supported through GRF files
15:52:27 <planetmaker> only trams are not available as default vehicles
15:52:46 <Yexo> magnetic rails? if you mean maglev just play in 2020 or so
15:53:42 <wysiwtf> ah i havent advanced that far in my testgame yet
15:53:55 <wysiwtf> im like 2010 and monorailing all and everyhting :p
15:55:43 <wysiwtf> and building planes of course
15:58:04 <wysiwtf> which brings me to the next question: is the boeing 747 really the best plane in the game? somehow i found the later ones without benefit..
15:58:15 <wysiwtf> or do they improve in reliability/cost effectiveness?
15:58:47 <wysiwtf> apart from the concorde (of course) they all seem to fly at 950something km/h anyway
16:00:50 <luk3Z> hello, it is possible in ottd build signals on the track automatically? I saw advanced option "place signal every x tiles" ?
16:01:18 <luk3Z> ctrl key + placing signal don;t help :/
16:01:19 <Yexo> that advanced option is for the distance between signals when you drag them
16:01:41 <Yexo> try ctrl key + clicking signal, hold the mouse and drag it a bit in one direction
16:02:23 <luk3Z> I today spoted new option in ottd - refit wagons :)
16:04:52 <wysiwtf> i found a way to spend lotsa money instantly: just go to a place where its all water, select the raise landscape thingie and draw a big square :p
16:11:09 <luk3Z> Yexo: thanks ! it's working
16:11:34 <Yexo> it's the online content service
16:11:54 <wysiwtf> ah the openttd package manager :p
16:12:21 <wysiwtf> yeah well i guess the client-integration is only 10% of it, the rest lies server-side
16:12:44 <luk3Z> Yexo: maybe do you know whether autohor of Choochoo AI is active ?
16:13:09 <wysiwtf> in my testgame i played against the admiral AI
16:13:11 <Yexo> I don't even know who the author is
16:13:21 <wysiwtf> while it is making a happy profit with planes
16:13:29 <wysiwtf> it somehow fails to build cost effective train lines
16:13:30 <Yexo> just find out who the author is and look at ttforums.net when he was last online
16:13:47 <wysiwtf> in fact it build lotsa depots and station and tracks without putting trains on it
16:13:53 <Yexo> wysiwtf: that really depends on which newgrfs you've loaded
16:14:12 <Yexo> in that case: were you using beta1?
16:14:17 <Yexo> if so, update to beta2 and try again
16:14:26 <Yexo> if it happens in beta2 make a report in the topic at the forums
16:14:29 <luk3Z> Yexo: ok Michiel is author he is online I see on the forum, so nevermind
16:15:38 <wysiwtf> is there a bundle of GRFs that can be seen as a "default-package" because its largely used by other stuff? i tried enabling all GRFs i could find at once and it was pure chaos ^^
16:16:09 <luk3Z> btw Modified Building Costs + hard difficulty = AI bankrupt ;)
16:17:35 <wysiwtf> ^mmh just looking at the AI files
16:17:44 <Yexo> wysiwtf: there is no default package
16:17:51 <Yexo> yes, the AIs are scripted
16:18:02 <wysiwtf> makes me wanna fiddle with it ^^
16:18:21 <Yexo> nearly all (with one exception) of the Ais on bananas are GPL
16:18:36 <Yexo> so feel free to combine, modify, etc.
16:18:43 <Yexo> and if you make something nice, please share it again
16:18:57 <wysiwtf> yeah but i wont start with the admiral Ai but with a simpler one :p
16:19:15 <Yexo> it's written as an example for ai developers
16:20:17 <wysiwtf> i love openttd, ist like a giant playground with ingame mechanics yet simple enought to not frag my brain (like those 3d-game-APIS)
16:21:05 <luk3Z> AI on the hard lvl + Modified Building Costs grf should start building trains with coal in the first stage but in my game AI build 1 train with cial and bankrupt soon (max loan is 1 000 000)maybe AI don't use more loan :/
16:21:07 <Yexo> yes, it's doable to make it work, but it's still very hard to make it work under all circumstances
16:22:23 <luk3Z> I Mean AdminalAI build train but soon it lack of monay I think so AI need a little cheat ;)
16:23:19 <luk3Z> what do you thjink about idea (e.g. in options) to enable AI cheat ?
16:24:06 <luk3Z> scripts are ok but in some circumstances AI going to bankrupt , so this option can be helpfull
16:24:32 <Yexo> if the Ais are going bankrupt but a human player can survive then the AIs should be improved
16:24:51 <sawtooth> nobody likes a cheating ai :)
16:24:59 <luk3Z> player can cheat if he want, so why player can't decide about cheat of AI ?
16:25:22 <Yexo> if you want that, just cheat to the AI company and then cheat money
16:25:30 <Yexo> and in multiplayer a player can't cheat
16:26:06 <luk3Z> I only want to help AI survive a little longer time ;)
16:38:53 <andythenorth> "Would you like a RRT industry set"
16:39:17 <peter1138> what he means: "I would like an RRT industry set"
16:39:56 <Eddi|zuHause> <glx> it cannot stop but can pass through ? <-- power consumption is the highest when starting up
16:39:59 <andythenorth> (Don't ask me to do it, I'm busy enough and have not coded any industries yet.)
16:40:10 <andythenorth> oops. forgot the quotes around that
16:41:07 <andythenorth> FIRS pretty much is a fricking RT3 industry set
16:41:22 <andythenorth> I have the industry chart here, and it's not a straight copy, but is close
16:42:03 * andythenorth back to the 4 week average sales chart I'm coding
16:43:09 <SpComb> makes giant screenshots a little more linkable
16:43:50 * andythenorth decides to choose words carefully on the internets
16:46:38 * andythenorth feels good about not being mean
16:50:34 <fonsinchen> SpComb: That's nice. How did you do that?
16:50:44 <SpComb> fonsinchen: by writing a bunch of code
16:51:08 * andythenorth I too busy writing code to write any code
16:51:24 <andythenorth> also too busy to use correct words
16:51:37 <fonsinchen> How did you parse the the giant screenshot?
16:51:45 <SpComb> peter1138: it's not really ready...
16:51:58 <SpComb> fonsinchen: I decode it onto disk, and then mmap it
16:52:20 <Eddi|zuHause> am i supposed to get an empty page with two buttons "zoom in" and "zoom out"?
16:52:29 <SpComb> Eddi|zuHause: depends on your browser
16:52:30 <fonsinchen> That probably takes A LOT of RAM ...
16:52:50 <SpComb> fonsinchen: well, it's all shared across the processes, and the OS pages it in/out as needed
16:52:52 <Eddi|zuHause> SpComb: konqueror 4
16:53:18 <SpComb> I've tested with firefox and opera so far, dunno about IE or webkit
16:53:28 <fonsinchen> And what did you use to decode it?
16:53:58 <andythenorth> SpComb: seems to do something useful on Safari
16:54:16 <SpComb> the actual decoding/encoding only takes as much ram as used by libpng for the compression stuff, so probably on the order of one row
16:55:57 <wysiwtf> SpComb: is the zoom w/ mousewheel a page-feature or does my browser resize the picture?
16:56:04 <wysiwtf> nevertheless it works quite well for me
16:56:19 <SpComb> wysiwtf: the zoomed tiles are rendered on the server as well
16:56:48 <SpComb> it's a pretty trivial algorithm because it only has to handle square images that are powers of two in size
16:57:07 <SpComb> so it just averages groups of 2/4/8/16 etc. pixels together
16:57:12 <peter1138> make it faster, with updates
16:57:15 <peter1138> and you've got web ottd ;)
16:57:48 <wysiwtf> SpComb: now just add some UI elements and a gameloop and you will put the client-versions out of business ;)
16:58:04 <andythenorth> OpenTTD screensaver?
16:58:09 <SpComb> heh, not going to happen really, waaay too slow, and no possibility for caching :)
16:58:25 <wysiwtf> an openTTD screensaver which just plays random savegames would be awesome
16:58:40 <SpComb> there was an OpenTTD screensaver mode on the forums
16:59:02 <wysiwtf> SpComb: i managed to get a python error
16:59:03 <andythenorth> What the game really lacks is Twitter integration....
16:59:18 <SpComb> wysiwtf: it's pretty demo-quality yet...
16:59:20 <wysiwtf> SpComb: with clicking on the resolution-link while the page was still loading
16:59:33 <wysiwtf> cant repro it now, tho
16:59:35 <SpComb> wysiwtf: well, don't do that then :P
16:59:44 <wysiwtf> oh i can live with it :p
16:59:52 <wysiwtf> i thought u like the feedback ^^
17:00:13 <SpComb> as I said, demo-quality
17:00:26 <wysiwtf> now what is THIS supposed to be? :p
17:02:38 <sawtooth> it's MW it would seem
17:03:26 <wysiwtf> this station also looks wired :p
17:05:40 <SpComb> don't blame me, I didn't build it :(
17:06:14 <SpComb> 5-track terminus that can handle a pretty large number of trains in a very compact space
17:06:42 <peter1138> bah, x doesn't work ;(
17:06:53 <SpComb> although now with electric rolling stock, the trains accelerate fast enough that it's already almost overkill
17:07:07 <SpComb> but it could handle dozens of slower steam/diesel engines 10 years back
17:08:45 <SpComb> the secret is specifically having alternating in/out tracks with a one-tile switchover in front of the station
17:08:59 <SpComb> you get about four simultaneous trains
17:12:06 <sawtooth> looks like most of those are seperate lines then
17:12:30 <SpComb> in this case yes, there's some segregation between lines
17:12:35 <SpComb> but that's just a further optimization
17:12:56 <peter1138> meh, i wanna play with cargodest
17:13:05 <peter1138> it makes sidelines much more interesting
17:13:25 <sawtooth> i started a game recently to try it out. makes things interesting.
17:13:36 <SpComb> sidelines are a bit difficult when playing with Low towns - the towns are so far apart that you're scared to use local coaches for anything :)
17:13:50 <sawtooth> had a small city between two large ones that had issues becase trains were full when they got there :)
17:14:03 <SpComb> so you end up running short legs with mainline coaches to 90% of towns
17:14:21 <SpComb> I play with 1/4th pax to make it more manageable
17:14:47 <sawtooth> yeah, i need to add a passenger reduction patch too
17:14:51 <wysiwtf> i never managed to make a real profit with vehicles
17:15:11 <wysiwtf> the margin always was so small compared to the work i had with all those trucks
17:16:10 <sawtooth> i can do pretty well when building the small initial network but then i tend to get overwhelmed when needing to upgrade it all
17:17:02 <sawtooth> trying to figure out how to build the crazy stations
17:18:42 <oskari89> Well, i had town with about 23000 population...
17:18:49 <oskari89> Started my network..
17:19:20 <oskari89> Had an 5-track station, and next to that, second town with some 10000 population, and same-like station....
17:19:24 <sawtooth> i might need a bit of reduced payment for passengers too. i was making a killing in the game i started
17:20:05 <sawtooth> part of the reason was i set my initial loan too high. makes be build too quickly.
17:20:15 <oskari89> And after 100 years in game, town was expanded to 130000 population, and station had 24 tracks :)
17:20:26 <oskari89> And by-passing for freight..
17:21:04 <oskari89> Oh, there were 32 tracks, not 24 :)
17:21:08 * peter1138 grumbles at landscapers again
17:21:11 <SpComb> I have 2b€ cash already :(
17:21:46 <sawtooth> well, i had started a nars2 game in 1890 and was swimming in cash before 1900 rolled around
17:22:02 <SpComb> been playing for 60 years at 4x daylength (240 "normal" years, about 54h of gameplay)
17:22:22 <oskari89> Well, i had 4,5b euros and some 100 years..
17:22:41 <SpComb> but making cash isn't really the objective
17:23:06 <SpComb> but it's annoying having to play the artificial "oh, I can't electify that track yet, I couldn't afford it!" game :)
17:23:13 <sawtooth> at least if i start with a really small loan i don't build too much right away before I can plan
17:23:19 <SpComb> whereas you could cover the map in maglev if you wanted to...
17:24:42 <Ammler> SpComb, using 2cc with parameter 9 might help
17:25:45 <SpComb> well, I noticed a little too late that I'm playing with Low building costs
17:25:55 <SpComb> I imagine the dbset's also a little more expensive if you up that to High
17:27:19 <peter1138> is there a newgrf which just makes landscape hugely expensive?
17:28:00 *** Terkhen has joined #openttd
17:30:04 <planetmaker> peter1138, there is afaik a newgrf which is capable of modding all base prices via parameters?
17:33:04 <peter1138> clearing stuff is okay
17:33:25 <peter1138> just raising/lowering landscape which is annoying me
17:33:58 * Terkhen should edit it to allow parameters
17:34:03 <frosch123> one action0, just increase it by factor 65536 or so
17:34:47 <peter1138> what does basecosts.grf allow?
17:36:01 <Ammler> it is mainly pikkas grf with parameters
17:36:58 <Ammler> (first "it is" is for the question to bananas) :-)
17:37:12 <Terkhen> my problem was that it alters the cost of building foundations
17:37:42 <Ammler> but your grf is way too easy right now.
17:37:52 <peter1138> that's no good then
17:37:59 <Terkhen> yes, I want to edit it, 4x is almost nothing... but I never get the time :P
17:38:29 <Ammler> with Action6 the whole thing would be easy to code.
17:38:50 <Terkhen> peter1138 you just need really high raise/lower land?
17:39:26 <Ammler> peter1138: I meant that with "outdated"
17:42:20 <Terkhen> I just recoded it so that raising a single tile costs 24M €
17:43:04 *** andythenorth has left #openttd
17:46:50 *** DarkED2 has joined #openttd
17:55:08 *** Luukland has joined #openttd
17:55:13 <Luukland> Apache Problems again Rubidium?
17:57:04 *** Rhamphoryncus has joined #openttd
17:59:53 * sawtooth attempts a linux build with the patches SpComb put together
18:01:53 *** andythenorth has joined #openttd
18:02:03 *** andythenorth has left #openttd
18:03:38 <Terkhen> I'm currently changing the costs for raise / lower land, plant trees, remove trees, clear grass, clear rough land, clear rocks, clear fields and clear water... I'm thinking about using three parameters: a parameter for raise / lower land, another for plant /remove trees and a third one for all clearing costs
18:04:23 *** andythenorth has joined #openttd
18:05:25 <Terkhen> oh, and a fourth one for foundations
18:06:14 <andythenorth> I feel a Belugas style rant coming on :x
18:18:38 *** andythenorth has joined #openttd
18:21:25 *** XeryusTC has joined #openttd
18:21:57 *** dihedral has joined #openttd
18:42:00 <Rubidium> ooh... the return of the SmatZ :)
18:45:44 <CIA-2> OpenTTD: translators * r18743 /trunk/src/lang/ (8 files in 2 dirs): (log message trimmed)
18:45:44 <CIA-2> OpenTTD: -Update from WebTranslator v3.0:
18:45:44 <CIA-2> OpenTTD: afrikaans - 47 changes by burgerd
18:45:44 <CIA-2> OpenTTD: croatian - 36 changes by
18:45:44 <CIA-2> OpenTTD: dutch - 1 changes by habell
18:45:46 <CIA-2> OpenTTD: finnish - 3 changes by jpx_
18:45:46 <CIA-2> OpenTTD: malay - 537 changes by Syed, toadhall
18:50:37 *** Alberth has joined #openttd
18:56:27 *** Bluelight has joined #openttd
19:04:04 *** Bluelight_ has joined #openttd
19:05:28 <Bluelight_> Ok, I have this problem that when I connect/play to/on a internet game, I get disconnected all the time..
19:05:51 <Bluelight_> I play with a friend of mine, and he has the same problem too..
19:06:14 <Rubidium> what version are you using?
19:07:20 *** Bluelight_ is now known as Bluelight
19:08:38 <Bluelight> I tested 1.0.0-beta2 at first, but got disconnected, so I downloaded stable 0.7.5 instead, but I'm still getting disconnected..
19:10:40 <Rubidium> OpenTTD seems to be sensitive to unstable connections, be it wireless or bad cable/DSL. The major problem is that none of the developers have any clue what causes it, or a network connection that triggers this behaviour in OpenTTD. As such we can't fix it
19:11:16 <Bluelight> Thats weird, cuz all other internet games work just fine..
19:11:59 <Bluelight> And my friend got a totally different DSL system then me, and he got the same problem too..
19:12:23 <Rubidium> but is the network design the same as OpenTTD?
19:12:56 <Rubidium> there are many ways it can be designed; OpenTTD's way depends on getting all information, other games might work 'fine' if you're missing out some information
19:13:25 <Bluelight> Yeah and you get packet loss with TCP/IP
19:13:25 <Rubidium> how the network code is designed
19:15:24 <Bluelight> You always get loss in the weird turns of connectivity on the net.. So the game have to resend, maybe it doesnt..
19:15:47 <Rubidium> no, with TCP/IP the protocol handles resends
19:15:49 <Bluelight> But it hangs for a really long time, then disconnects..
19:16:36 <Bluelight> Then why do other TCP/IP games work like a charm? Doesnt make sense..
19:17:21 <Rubidium> so the server says (to the operating system): send XY to the client, then the server and clients' operating system have to make sure that the data is received in the right order without anything missing and only then it's passed to the client binary.
19:17:33 <Bluelight> Also I find out that OpenTTD is cross platform? Is there any other cool games that is cross platform too?
19:18:24 <Bluelight> Maybe my computer is too fast, lol
19:18:49 <Rubidium> Bluelight: as I said, design. OpenTTD sends stuff to the client, then the client has to calculate stuff and draw it on the screen. Most games can receive the data 'too late' and then recover from getting it too late. OpenTTD's game state is simply too complex to get that done
19:19:29 <Bluelight> Ok.. Really sad.. I wanna play..
19:19:35 <Rubidium> as such the server sends a message how far the clients may progress before they have to wait for the server again
19:20:22 <Bluelight> I'm trying to learn C++, maybe one day I can figure this out? Doh..
19:20:29 <Rubidium> if the client doesn't get the message from the server, because of a temporary network hiccup, the OSes start the resend stuff and after a while you'll receive the go ahead (and probably a lot more go aheads), so it can speed ahead
19:21:09 <Rubidium> but if the resend stuff takes too long the client starts to think that the network connection is lost (because the server doesn't send anything or replies on questions) and then it's done
19:22:11 <Bluelight> But why is it working fine for a moment and then breaks after a wile..?
19:22:33 <Bluelight> I can play for some hours on a server and then suddently I get disconnected all the time.. Weird..
19:22:44 <Rubidium> because of the temporary hiccups
19:22:57 <Luukland> "losing packets" is probably the main reason
19:22:58 <Rubidium> maybe someone is downloading torrents or so
19:23:07 <Rubidium> something that saturates your incoming connection
19:23:47 <Rubidium> then packages get dropped, resends are needed, resends are possibly dropped again and...
19:24:00 <Rubidium> anyhow, time to make some dinner
19:24:53 <Bluelight> My incoming connection is 1Mb/s outgoing is 3Mb/s (had 20 before, lol), I use a firewall but I have tested without it, still get connection trouble.. Use a short patch cable directly from DSL modem to computer.. Only one computer can be connected to it and I
19:25:03 <Bluelight> 'm not using torrents or anything..
19:25:03 <Luukland> OpenTTD doesn't like you using youtube (or any other streaming site), utorrent (or any download app.), and especially WLAN
19:25:42 <Bluelight> I just start up my XP.. Turn off the firewall and plays the game with little luck..
19:26:08 <Luukland> You could join me server, I can then look at the amount of frames lag you have
19:26:26 <Luukland> it should be around 1-6 to be "very good"
19:26:36 <Bluelight> I was playing for a while on your sever.. But I broke the rules remember? He he..
19:27:08 <Luukland> ah, dunno, long banlist >_<
19:27:21 <Bluelight> I'm not banned I think..
19:27:57 <Bluelight> But I have to run my firewall while in IRC.. Getting a lot of attacks then for some reason..
19:30:02 <Bluelight> Downloading beta now..
19:33:21 <Bluelight> Hmm.. All Luukland servers are red, can't join them..
19:33:33 <Bluelight> I played on them yesterday though.. weird..
19:34:08 <Bluelight> Ohh... Darn.. But I used Beta yesterday..? Hmm..
19:34:54 *** Wizzleby has joined #openttd
19:37:17 <Bluelight> Now I'm in Luukland server 2 as Bluelight..
19:38:16 *** Wizzleby has joined #openttd
19:39:30 *** Terkhen has joined #openttd
19:39:33 <Luukland> now start an application (e.g. firefox)
19:39:41 <Luukland> and go do what you always do
19:40:31 <Luukland> It is your internet browser :)
19:41:39 <Bluelight> No I didn't start Firefox..
19:41:52 <Bluelight> I was only in the game.. Got disconnected 4 times now..
19:42:43 <Luukland> it is not the LAG, must be some other error then... Run out of ideas, sorry mate
19:53:59 <Bluelight> It works now.. But after a while I might get a period where I disconnect all the time..
19:54:18 <Bluelight> And the it's completely hopeless to play..
19:56:24 <Muxy> may be you have a malware who is using your internet...
19:59:27 <Belugas> Bluelight, check with your task manager to see the internet activity
20:02:17 <Bluelight> Network utilisation 0%
20:02:55 <Bluelight> I will try to reboot with all apps clossed..
20:08:21 *** Yexo is now known as Guest992
20:13:09 <sawtooth> cities on the sides of hills are fun yet usually quite annoying :)
20:18:01 <CIA-2> OpenTTD: frosch * r18744 /trunk/src/window.cpp: -Fix [FS#3487-ish]: Do not toggle the sticky- and shading-button twice per mouseclick when clicking fast.
20:23:20 <CIA-2> OpenTTD: frosch * r18745 /trunk/src/station_cmd.cpp: -Codechange: Assemble custom station foundations into a single bounding box.
20:24:49 *** Bluelight has joined #openttd
20:26:51 <frosch123> 17 minutes to reboot :)
20:26:55 <Bluelight> Tested the game without anti-virus and firewall, no software was accessing the internet except for OpenTTD
20:27:21 <Bluelight> Still not working.. and sometimes it works for long periods..
20:27:32 <Bluelight> With everything on..
20:28:58 <Bluelight> Maybe it's something wrong with the nternet connected from Norway to other contries.. But the ping is low..
20:29:35 <Bluelight> Maybe I should run my own server? :p
20:29:58 <Bluelight> How do I run my own OpenTTD server? Dedicated!
20:31:28 <Muxy> BlueLight: what kind of CPU/RAM/OS ?
20:32:43 <Bluelight> Well I can use my FreeBSD server wich is a dual Xeon with 6 drives..
20:33:11 <Bluelight> But I was thinking more like running a server in WinXP on a Athlon 64..
20:34:05 <Bluelight> XP/Athlon 64/4GB DDR
20:34:35 <Muxy> in task manager : memory used/physical memory ?
20:35:23 <Bluelight> Where is memory used?
20:36:02 <Bluelight> Physical available 2.763.922
20:36:39 <Muxy> and used is the number in green on the left
20:36:57 <Bluelight> Well there are all sort of programs using everything from 10MB to 20
20:37:05 <Muxy> if you have 2.763.922 aviable, you lost 2GB...
20:37:28 <andythenorth> Does anyone think there would be copyright issues with using railroad tycoon graphics in OpenTTD?
20:38:11 <Bluelight> Yeah but this is almost a new computer and on new computers the motherboard takes some RAM for cards usage..
20:40:26 <fjb> andythenorth: Depends on who is holding the rights.
20:40:44 <andythenorth> I would say some larg multi-national software company
20:42:01 <Bluelight> Also, when I try to host a game in-game, noone finds the server..
20:44:40 <Alberth> such topics pop up at the forums regularly, perhaps you can find the answer there
20:47:35 <Bluelight> Can't you tell me? :p
20:48:52 <Alberth> not really, the usual stuff with firewalls and routers, but I don't know the details
20:49:15 <Bluelight> And are there other free cross platform games?
20:49:20 <Alberth> and you need those to get anywhere :p
20:49:35 * Alberth wishes to find those too
20:49:37 <Bluelight> Well I have tried with my firewall off and opened all ports..
20:49:39 <CIA-2> OpenTTD: rubidium * r18746 /trunk/src/network/ (network_gamelist.cpp network_udp.cpp):
20:49:39 <CIA-2> OpenTTD: -Fix [FS#3489]: clear the cached NewGRFs of a server when receiving a reply
20:49:39 <CIA-2> OpenTTD: instead of when requesting the information. With slow/unstable network
20:49:39 <CIA-2> OpenTTD: connections it would look like the NewGRF settings button went randomly missing.
20:50:47 <Alberth> I never tried getting a server published
20:51:23 <Muxy> bluelight: to publish a server you need your firewall opened on tcp/udp 3979
20:51:49 <Terkhen> Bluelight: try Freeciv
20:52:12 <fjb> andythenorth: Don't mess with a company which can pay the better lawyers.
20:52:30 <andythenorth> fjb: oh I have no intention to
20:52:59 <andythenorth> I am just watching a forum cluster ...oops.../me deletes the swearing
20:54:03 <andythenorth> I'm not usually annoyed by forum users. Even the clueless ones are kind of fun.
20:54:22 * fjb wants to have some fun, too.
20:54:50 <Bluelight> What is wrong when I have all ports open?
20:55:26 <frosch123> to start with the simple questions, did you select "internet (advertise)" when creating the server?
20:55:53 <fjb> andythenorth: Nobody is useless, he can always serve as a bad example.
20:55:55 <frosch123> is it listed on servers.openttd.org
20:56:36 <andythenorth> I don't like being mean to dumb people :o
20:56:38 <Bluelight> I didn't knew there was an option to change list server
20:57:09 <fjb> andythenorth: Thanks for sharing the fun.
20:58:02 * asilv just realized that some forum members are younger than ttd :o
20:58:48 <frosch123> asilv: the problem is there are people younger than ttd in this channel
20:59:06 <andythenorth> I am about twice as old as TTD
20:59:08 <asilv> well yes they are same people mostly
21:00:47 <Zuu> a-q for quitting is addicting too bad, that doesn't work in OpenTTD :-(
21:01:09 <sawtooth> my first exposure to ttd was back in the days of pcgamer 3.5" demo floppies
21:01:32 <Zuu> I didn't start with it until year 2000-ish.
21:01:56 <sawtooth> pretty sure it was before cd based demo disks anyways
21:02:16 <frosch123> hmm, should ottd exit on "ESC :q!" ?
21:02:26 <asilv> I have ttd dos version diskettes somewhere, but they don't work anymore
21:03:03 <Zuu> ZZ was nice in qwerty, but since changing to dvorak I never use it anymore.
21:03:52 <Zuu> ~ + quit + enter works at least.
21:04:00 <fjb> frosch123: Yes! Yes! Yes!
21:04:15 <frosch123> Alberth: but i only need q! to exit the crap as fast as possible without chaning anything
21:04:17 <sawtooth> anyone make the mistake of typing exit in the openttd command console thinking it will just close the console? :)
21:05:02 <Rubidium> frosch123: that's called the reset button
21:05:32 <Alberth> ^Z then enter 'kill -9 %1'
21:05:55 <frosch123> hmm, good point, i could run a cronjob which tries to kill -9 them every few seconds
21:06:17 <frosch123> how do i run cronjobs on remote machines?
21:06:31 <Alberth> crontab -e for editing
21:07:36 <Bluelight> Is Railroad Tycoon 3 any good?
21:07:50 <Alberth> Zuu: (a daemon to run commands at certain times)
21:08:18 <frosch123> Bluelight: commerical stuff is never "good" :p
21:08:18 <Zuu> Yea, I know what crontab is, I was suggesting to frosch123 to use the crontab command hehe.
21:08:24 <Alberth> Bluelight: why do you assume we know about any other game? there is only one True Game :p
21:08:57 <Rubidium> imagine there is no game :)
21:08:59 <frosch123> (well, except it feeds me)
21:09:00 <Bluelight> Ahh.. Ha ha.. Luukland is struggling to stay in IRC
21:09:16 <Alberth> frosch123: for that it only have to sell
21:09:46 <Bluelight> He runs servers, but can't run a IRC client.. :p
21:10:06 <Bluelight> At least I don't get ping timeout.. here.. But in-game i floods..
21:10:11 <Alberth> nah, his servers eat all bandwitdh :)
21:10:13 <frosch123> you should team up with him
21:10:36 <sawtooth> time to take a break from openttd and enjoy another hobby...piano!
21:10:39 <Bluelight> What platform is he using to host?
21:11:19 <Zuu> His IRC client does not need to be running at the same location as his OpenTTD servers.
21:11:41 *** Luukland has joined #openttd
21:11:48 <Bluelight> I know.. Just thought it was funny, but I guess not.. :p
21:12:07 <Bluelight> Luukland, can you help me setup a server?
21:12:18 <frosch123> he must have smelled it :p
21:21:26 <Bluelight> Hmm.. Luukland is busy doing some quiz in-game, lol
21:21:57 <Muxy> Bluelight: you can have some help in #goulp
21:22:41 <frosch123> Bluelight: luukland's archenemy
21:23:44 <Bluelight> He told me to ask Ex's..
21:24:26 <Bluelight> But that is Norwegian.. :)
21:25:36 <Bluelight> Sooooo! How is Goulp going to help me set up a dedicated WinXP OpenTTD server?
21:27:19 <Muxy> Goulp is not translatable
21:27:59 <Bluelight> What does the red dot after servername mean in the server list? Is it wrong version only or ping?
21:28:26 <Rubidium> click on the name and check what the 'description' part says
21:28:36 <Xaroth> or some other reason you can't play on it
21:29:58 <Xaroth> you're missing some signals?
21:30:26 <Xaroth> unless the signal where it will jam is a path signal :o
21:30:33 <Xaroth> can't really see that properly
21:30:39 <sparr> yes, it's a path signal
21:30:57 <sparr> the original problem was that when i turned off reversing at path signals but not at normal signals then trains would reverse and stop permanently
21:31:10 <sparr> that was fixed by turning reversing on or off for all types of signals consistently
21:31:22 <sparr> now I am just investigating a more specific part of the problem
21:33:54 <sparr> if you stop a train on the left bridge then the next train crosses the right bridge and stops at the signal past the bridge
21:34:06 <sparr> if the <-- marked signal is missing, the right train will never reverse
21:34:12 <sparr> if it is there, the right train will reverse
21:36:12 <sawtooth> what about path signals before the rejoin where trains could wait?
21:36:13 *** Grelouk has joined #openttd
21:47:15 <gathers> I know it doesn't always follow the coding style, but there's no point to me fixing that if the whole approach is bad
21:52:16 <Yexo> browsing through your code it looks nicely commented, there are a few places where it doesn't follow the coding style, but nothing major
21:52:41 <Yexo> I have never worked with the current timetable code, so I'd have to read that first to judge how your patch works
21:53:07 <sparr> sawtooth: I am not sure what your question has to do with mine
21:54:58 <gathers> Yexo, thanks. It could use even more comments still I think (and I sloppily call something variance that isn't real variance at all)
21:57:58 <gathers> oh, where did the snow in the forums go? is winter officially over already? :P
21:59:50 <Yexo> snow on the forums is every year a few weeks around newyear
22:03:42 *** Rubix`` has joined #openttd
22:08:14 *** Brianetta has joined #openttd
22:13:05 *** Timmaexx has joined #openttd
22:15:58 *** ccfreak2k has joined #openttd
22:19:04 <Yexo> Zuu: just reading your latest filter signlist patch now
22:20:06 <Yexo> in SignNameFilter you could use MAX_LENGTH_SIGN_NAME_BYTES instead of 64
22:21:26 <Zuu> And I guess also in SignNameSorter, but I need to check if that one is added by my patch.
22:21:55 <Yexo> can't find itin your patch
22:22:26 <Yexo> and I'm still trying to find out if the memset in the SignList() constructor is needed,isn't this->filter_string[0] = '\0'; enough?
22:22:31 <Zuu> Nope, so there is a suggestion for trunk then ;-)
22:23:00 <Zuu> this->filter_string[0] = '\0' is probably enough.
22:24:45 <Yexo> SignListWindow could use MAX_LENGTH_SIGN_NAME_PIXELS for maxwidth (as argument to InitializeTextBuffer) instead of hardcoded 255
22:25:50 *** HerzogDeXtEr has joined #openttd
22:25:55 <Yexo> that memset thing is also valid in SetFilterString
22:27:45 <Yexo> also in SetFilterString: strecpy always adds \0 to the end of dst, so the next line is notneeded
22:28:40 <Yexo> this->SetWidgetDirty(SLW_FILTER_CLEAR_BTN); <- that should be moved out the else block as it's also needed for the first case
22:29:49 <Yexo> + DrawString(r.left + WD_FRAMERECT_TOP, r.right, y, STR_STATION_LIST_NONE); <- why that change? the trunk code looks correct
22:33:12 <Zuu> Regarding TOP/LEFT, that is probably from that the patch used magic constants since trunk used that. Then trunk changed and some time later I fixed the patch to use constants but got the wrong constant there.
22:34:27 <Yexo> in onclick, case SLW_FILTER_MATCH_CASE_BTN you need to mark the widget dirty
22:34:36 <Yexo> at least I can't find any place that does this
22:37:39 *** Bluelight_ has joined #openttd
22:40:19 <Zuu> Regarding SLW_FILTER_MATCH_CASE_BTN that widget is marked dirty by Window::HandleButtonClick which is called by DispatchLeftClickEvent in window.cpp.
22:40:50 <Zuu> All buttons (and quite a few other widgets) gets marked dirty when you click on them.
22:42:37 *** Bluelight_ is now known as Bluelight
22:44:06 <Zuu> Thanks Yexo, I'll upload new patches in a minute or two.
22:49:27 *** Progman has joined #openttd
22:50:15 <sparr> what causes production to increase at a farm?
22:50:36 <Yexo> the same as with other primary industriesd, transporting mostof the cargo
22:50:52 <Yexo> but it's always random, you can just increase your chances
22:51:59 <sparr> ACTUALLY transporting most of the cargo, or having a high "% transported"?
22:52:10 <gathers> is testing with a single player on a dedicated server (compiled with ./configure --enable-desync-debug=1) enough to find most desyncs?
22:52:34 <Yexo> having a high % transported
22:53:02 <Yexo> gathers: you don't need to use --enable-desync-debug=1 to find desyncs
22:53:19 <Yexo> it's only useful to find out where it desyncs, if it does
22:53:42 <Yexo> if you reconnect a few times during your testing you could probably find most desyncs
22:53:54 <Yexo> but carefully proofreading the patch helps too
22:54:33 <gathers> not if you have no idea what to look for that might cause desyncs in the first place :P
22:55:13 <Yexo> if you have no idea what to look for you wouldn't be able to fix them either
22:55:36 <Yexo> most important is to not change any of the gamestate in the gui code
22:55:40 *** fonsinchen1 has joined #openttd
22:55:51 <Yexo> ifanything needs to be changed, call DoCommand and change it that way
22:56:09 <Yexo> every DoCommand is executed by all clients and the server at the same time
22:56:36 <gathers> I though I'd learn how do fix it if I found out where it happened ;) but I haven't seen any so far.
22:57:16 <Yexo> well for desyncs it's a lot easier to spend to time learning how to make sure you don't get them
22:57:28 <Yexo> as finding where the problem is can be very time consuming
22:57:36 <Zuu> Yexo: Shall I add our conversation regarding the sign list patch as reference to the bug task?
22:57:45 <gathers> ok, but commands are only needed when called by non-deterministic things, like gui buttons?
22:57:52 <Yexo> Zuu: if you uploaded a new diff, no need
22:58:07 <Yexo> unless you disagree with some things and want to discuss those more
22:58:29 <Zuu> No, I agree with you regarding your comments.
22:59:37 <Zuu> Ok, I've just uploaded the diffs then.
23:00:38 <Yexo> InitializeTextBuffer still used 255 hardcoded instead of some constant
23:01:36 <Zuu> Thanks for checking, and indeed I forgot about that one.
23:01:41 <Yexo> If a button is made disabled when it is lowered <- should "If a button is disabled when ..." be enough? ie without "made"?
23:02:40 <Yexo> no more comments from me
23:03:20 <Zuu> English-wise probably. Though I think I wanted to distuingish between the state 'disabled' and the action of disabling something.
23:05:20 *** Guest981 has joined #openttd
23:05:25 *** Guest981 is now known as planetmaker
23:05:29 <Yexo> that's all I'm going to do with it tonight, before applying I want to test it first, but now I want to work on newgrf airports :p
23:05:57 *** planetmaker is now known as Guest1009
23:06:48 *** Guest1009 is now known as planetmaker
23:11:23 <Zuu> Yexo: Happy airporting :-)
23:11:52 <Yexo> hmm, noise for industry airports, how to handle that
23:12:37 <Zuu> Generate noise, but don't check for it when the industry is built? Or maybe check for it when players build the industry but not the game?
23:13:10 <Zuu> Though, that could be evil if a industry pops up that pollutes a town with noise so that you no longer can build an airport there.
23:13:58 <Yexo> I think I'm just going to ignore it for now
23:14:12 <Yexo> just because that takes less coding
23:14:18 <glx> how is it handled for oilrigs?
23:14:43 <Zuu> Yea, easiest. Industries are really so expansive to build so it is quite an expansive way around the noise restriction of a town.
23:14:50 *** Dred_furst has joined #openttd
23:16:11 <Yexo> but I'm not sure it's actually used anywehre
23:16:26 <Yexo> wait, heliport, what am I talking about?
23:17:38 <Yexo> oilrigs don't even have an AirportSpec (in my branch), so no noise either
23:19:10 <Zuu> Does the oilrig heliport has any coverage?
23:19:47 <Yexo> the oilrig is still a unique case inthe code
23:21:28 <Zuu> If industry airports would have coverage zero (just that industry), then they would not be possible to use to come around the noise restriction of regular airports.
23:21:59 <Yexo> coverage area is another thing I'm not sure how to handle
23:22:10 <Yexo> I think for now 0 will do indeed
23:22:28 <Yexo> maybe later it can be defined by the newgrf author, but only if the noise can be defined too
23:34:09 <Zuu> For your information, I started a bit on adding a text box to the AI Debug window for entering a break string that will pause the game when a log message that matches the string is printed. It sits on my laptop for the moment, so I'll see when I'm next time on a train or I get around to move it to my desktop.
23:35:47 <Zuu> Though, if you code that togeather yourself in 2 hours you're free to commit it. :-D
23:36:28 <Yexo> oh yes, I remember I saw something on the bug tracker abuot that
23:36:37 <Yexo> although it wasn't finished at the time I think
23:39:14 <Zuu> If you've seen it on the bug tracker then someone else has also attempted on it because I haven't submitted anything there what I can remember. :-)
23:41:43 <Yexo> I do recall having heard the idea before
23:42:09 <Zuu> I've posted about it in your thread about NoAI additions as a suggestion of something that would be nice to have, but doesn't neccessary need to go into 1.0.
23:42:47 <Zuu> Since mostly only AI devs will use it, it doesn't really matter if it gets commited before or after 1.0 gets branched off.
23:43:27 <Zuu> Assuming AI devs mostly use nightlies.
23:43:39 <Yexo> I have no idea if they do
23:44:30 <Zuu> I've seen some that use stables, so there might actually be quite some that stick to stables for AI development.
23:45:09 <Yexo> that's also easier, because there is not always compatibility between nighties
23:45:48 <Yexo> nearly every function in the 0.7 api still works as expected, but a few functions introduced after 0.7 have been removed again
23:47:40 *** lws1984 has joined #openttd
23:54:46 *** Dreamxtreme has joined #openttd
23:57:45 <Tennel> Hi, i'm trying to download OpenSFX via the ingame-dowloader, but it doesn't work. I had tryed a few times but everytime the download stops at 6,29mb.
23:58:52 <Zuu> Is it just OpenSFX that you get this problem with or do you get it with other things?
continue to next day ⏵
