IRC logs for #openttd on OFTC at 2010-01-01
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00:00:24 <Sacro> happy new year everyone
00:01:14 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: rubidium * r18678 /trunk/ (50 files in 4 dirs): -Update: happy new year
00:01:46 <sparr> 3 years from now when someone needs to run blame on that revision...
00:03:46 <zar> tells you who's commited which line of the source file.
00:03:58 <PeterT> why is it called "blame"?
00:04:13 <orudge> you ask a lot of questions
00:04:28 <thingwath> PeterT: because basically you are mostly using it to find whose fault something is? :)
00:04:39 <glx> "praise" does the same IIRC
00:05:01 <PeterT> that doesn't seem logical...
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01:11:16 <Eddi|zuHause2> happy new year from two hours ago
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01:18:44 <PeterT> is there a way to find the number of wiki edits that other users have made? I know how to find my own, but I can't find other peoples'
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02:20:24 <sparr> PeterT: how do you find your own?
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02:27:26 <PeterT> That doesn't show the number of edits, just the edits themselves
02:27:34 <sparr> yeah, you'd have to count :)
02:27:41 <PeterT> I'm not stupid, I have tried this before...
02:27:45 <sparr> copy and paste into an editor with a line counter?
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04:13:15 <PeterT> <sparr> copy and paste into an editor with a line counter? <-- That's like trying to justify Windows Vista, it's just not right
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05:01:28 <PeterT> happpppyyy new year east coasters!
05:02:13 <Aali> you're late to the party
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05:03:24 <roboboy> its been 16 hours and three Minutes
05:04:06 <PeterT> Aali: i said east coast
05:04:12 <PeterT> roboboy: i said east coast
05:04:31 <Aali> PeterT: I am currently residing on the east coast
05:04:45 <Rubix``> i still got another 56 minutes
05:04:59 <Rubix``> and my gf is in fucking alaska :<
05:05:16 <Aali> atleast she's not fucking in alaska
05:06:31 <Aali> but I guess you don't really know that, eh
05:08:14 <PeterT> Aali: 6AM? Which east coast?
05:09:05 <Aali> PeterT: the east coast of sweden
05:09:36 <PeterT> If you had filed your crash.dmp and crash.log we wouldn't have this problem
05:09:47 <Aali> and now I'm going to bed
05:10:24 <Aali> so I haven't really crashed yet, but I'm going to now
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08:37:27 <Ammler> good morning and happy new year to everyone
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10:31:39 <Muxy> Hello everybody, and Happy Goulp Year !
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10:53:50 <Rubidium> peter1138: happy OS X deprecation?
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11:44:21 <_ln> is there an official statement or something about the deprecation of OS X?
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11:53:58 <peter1138> most of the comments of which flame us because obviously macs are perfect and we're doing it wrong
11:55:06 * roboboy thinks apple is silly to an extent
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12:06:10 <[com]buster> I occasionally have to do apple development for work
12:06:29 <[com]buster> if apple didn't invent it, you can't do it
12:06:35 <_ln> Alberth: that's fine. i just don't read the forums regularly.
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12:20:27 <_ln> why not contact Steve directly, and have him assign a team of a dozen full-time developers to fix the issues
12:21:11 <_ln> NeosaD: did you mean "¡¡Buenas!!"?
12:21:24 <Alberth> _ln: he is welcome to submit patches
12:22:17 <_ln> Alberth: i don't think Steve can code much himself, nor submit patches
12:23:06 <Alberth> anybody in his name would be fine too :p
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12:29:02 <_ln> FS#3194 and FS#2585, the two most important unfixed Mac bugs are both related to fullscreen video. I wonder if they could be fixed by using the Quartz video implementation in fullscreen too.
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13:39:32 <Zuu> Any user of Filter Sign List patch? I'm thinking about making it so that when you focus the filter edit box, then the first sign become selected (blue).
13:40:16 <Zuu> So that it is more obvious that when you hit enter, the first sign in the list is the one viewed, and that you can use the arrow-keys to move up/down.
13:41:32 <Zuu> But the code becomes a bit less obvious.. hm
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13:57:53 <Zuu> Hmm, I'll leave it as it is. It is fairly consistent as it is and I don't feel that I get a more consistent feeling by changing it.
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14:03:48 <PeterT> Zuu: I would prefer the patch continued to be updated (to trunk)
14:04:54 <PeterT> I hadn't read the Development forum yet
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14:20:56 <Zuu> Interesting, if you disable a button before it raises, it will stay lowered.
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14:27:26 * Zuu wonders how the propper way is to disable a button when you click on it so that it will not stay lowered.
14:28:14 <PeterT> probably involves source code, somewhere :-)
14:29:36 <Zuu> I mean, even if I call RaiseWidget(WIDGET_INDEX) before calling DisableWidget(WIDGET_INDEX) it will stay lowered after the user has clicked on the button.
14:31:49 <Alberth> Perhaps also redraw it with this->SetWidgetDirty (widget_index) ?
14:33:06 <Alberth> or the whole window with this->SetDirty() of course
14:34:24 <Zuu> I tried to (as user) move that button outside the screen and back again to force re-draw but that didn't help. Or is the window paint cached in a surface?
14:35:30 <Alberth> you'd get the same effect if you move another window over it.
14:35:42 <Zuu> My guess is that whe left click dispatch code sets the button as lowered after my click handling code.
14:36:22 <Alberth> that would be an explanation
14:36:58 <Alberth> you could verify perhaps by printing the lowered state after disabling
14:38:28 <Alberth> hmm, only OnKeyPress and OnCTRLStateChange return a EventState
14:40:26 <Zuu> My verification code shows that IsWidgetLowered(..) returns false after I have raised and disabled the widget.
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14:45:04 <Alberth> So that code works as expected. Some other code messes things up most likely. You could print when the widget gets raised again, or better set a breakpoint on that, then see where the call comes from
14:45:45 <Zuu> Would that break point be in RaiseWidget function?
14:49:16 <Alberth> I seem to remember that SetWidgetLoweredState() or ToggleWidgetLoweredState() are the lowest window functions. They both use widget->SetLowered() so that may be another option
14:50:00 <Alberth> also, you are looking for lowering the widget again, not raising
14:51:10 <Alberth> ie NWidgetCore::SetLowered(true) would be the call
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15:05:38 <Zuu> Okay, it was a bug in the Filter Sign List patch: the OnClick handler of the clear filter button called "this->HandleButtonClick(widget)" at the end of the click handle code.
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15:14:16 <Luukland> This might sound a bit stupid but how can I replace a float?
15:14:59 <Zuu> By storing the value in a integer possible multiplied by 100.
15:16:46 <Alberth> or by a power of 2 (eg 1024)
15:18:03 <Luukland> That will be difficult :p
15:18:47 <valhallasw> why do you want to replace it, and what do you want to replace it with :)
15:19:27 <Luukland> Simple, OTTD + Float = no go
15:21:02 <Zuu> Alberth: Now after fixing that bug the status is that if you disable a button you need to manually raise it using RaiseWidget(..). That can be done either after or before DisableWidget.
15:21:18 <valhallasw> so what do you want to store :)
15:22:18 <Luukland> (float)((((float)sum_all_ratings / 256)) + (float)factor))
15:25:02 <valhallasw> I have no idea how big/small sum_all_ratings and factor are :) What is the range of values, and what precision do you need? :)
15:25:25 <valhallasw> at the sight of it, using ints should be fine
15:25:34 <Luukland> UUhhhh, let me first get into the matter my own, I am still not sure how to fix
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15:34:33 <Alberth> Zuu: that's what I would expect, lowering and disabling are completely independent afaik
15:36:06 <Alberth> Luukland: store the value *256, and only divide (or shift) when you need its 'real' value.
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15:55:07 <PeterT> thanks Zuu for the update
15:56:03 <Zuu> You're welcome. When I saw that my FS#3256 was added, I though it is time to update the filter sign list patch. :-)
15:56:22 <PeterT> I really hope that gets into trunk
15:56:59 <Zuu> Eh.. Got a notification email from tt-forums in a non-english language that looks like Spanish or something like that.
15:58:49 <Zuu> hmm, would be better if it was still in Danish, that is at least somewhat readable if you know Swedish. :-)
16:01:46 <Zuu> That message does not really need a translation if you are familar with the phpbb url schemas.
16:07:53 <DorpsGek> PeterT: Pikka was last seen in #openttd 3 weeks, 4 days, 4 hours, 48 minutes, and 20 seconds ago: <Pikka> a certain other project :P
16:17:38 <_ln> danish is a universal language
16:20:40 <planetmaker> Hm, what are the placement conditions for default farms?
16:21:00 <Xaroth> non-frozen non-desert soil?
16:21:28 <planetmaker> in arctic, yes. Hm... because we have an arctic game and we have no farm and our people starve...
16:21:41 <planetmaker> and not even on a specially made low-land plane it wants to build one...
16:22:41 <planetmaker> is there also a requirement how much space there has to be for fields or alike?
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16:28:49 <planetmaker> hm, not even the scenario editor won't let me build one...
16:30:19 <Luukland> farms must be placed on grassland and have no space requirements for fields
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16:57:04 <PeterT> happy new year, Terkhen
17:08:08 * jonty-comp proclaims death to openttd.org
17:09:20 <Luukland> :S What is your tracking record jonty-comp?
17:09:45 <jonty-comp> well, someone mentioned it in #tycoon
17:09:50 <jonty-comp> and it has indeed died
17:09:57 <jonty-comp> so I thought I might as well claim responsibility
17:10:24 <Rubidium> bah... leaky apache again
17:10:36 <Luukland> Ghe ghe sounds like apache webserver needs a restart
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17:11:29 <KasperNymand> Any administrator here?
17:11:51 <Luukland> openttd.org is down for maintenance and will be fixed :P
17:12:10 <KasperNymand> That was my question :D
17:12:26 <Luukland> I know that is your question and I even gave you an answer :)
17:12:39 <KasperNymand> Is it a crash or a update of the website?
17:13:33 <Rubidium> the problem... again... is that there is NO proper webserver
17:13:46 <KasperNymand> How long will it take?
17:13:59 <Luukland> around 4 mins if you give the correct commands
17:14:11 <KasperNymand> What do you mean?
17:14:13 <Rubidium> to write a webserver that is proper; probably infinitely long
17:14:38 <KasperNymand> How long will it take, to the website is up and running again?
17:14:42 <jonty-comp> or just use lighttpd
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17:15:54 <George> Hi. I'd like to ask about FS#2069
17:16:04 * jonty-comp likes lighttpd, anyway
17:16:05 <Luukland> Ghe ghe, jonty-comp, you should have shatt app :P
17:16:41 <Rubidium> hmm, so how to limit apache with it's misbehaving
17:16:58 <George> Rubidium: the problem that I do not get any building that requires slope code 00 for SW tile and 0C for NE tile
17:17:16 <Luukland> I also have problems with apache lately, random crashes at random times
17:17:28 <Luukland> its to drive the users mad!
17:17:48 <jonty-comp> Rubidium: hmm, I see what you mean
17:17:57 <jonty-comp> that there is even a 'Wontfix' status is a bit stupid
17:18:42 <George> Rubidium: I get no hotel praha
17:18:43 <KasperNymand> Wohoo! The website is working again. :)
17:19:07 <Luukland> [18:13] <Luukland> around 4 mins <-- it were 5 :P
17:19:36 <Rubidium> KasperNymand: it was 7 minutes ago also
17:20:08 <George> Rubidium: It looks like OTTD does not try to building with Building flags = 4 on such slope combination
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17:39:02 <planetmaker> happy new year folks :-)
17:39:08 <George> Rubidium: do you have time to speak about FS#2069 or should I ask you later?
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18:10:25 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: rubidium * r18679 /trunk/src/ (station_cmd.cpp waypoint.cpp): -Fix (r16993): tile area of waypoints wasn't correctly given to NewGRFs in case of multi tile waypoints
18:11:04 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: peter1138 * r18680 /trunk/src/newgrf_station.cpp: -Fix: Whole station area is already correct size.
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18:19:37 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: peter1138 * r18681 /trunk/src/newgrf_station.cpp: -Codechange: Use existing TILE_LOOP method for iterating trigger area.
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18:29:58 <George> I've reported the problem under FS#3466
18:39:09 <planetmaker> Hm...: "Uhm, would you be so kind not to load a NewGRF that makes the 'query' sprite a non-normal sprite? See the readme for more info. Most likely you're missing files from the original TTD" (r18669)
18:39:28 <planetmaker> surely I have the base files :-)
18:40:12 <Rubidium> planetmaker: is that an error you actually hit, or just a grep of OpenTTD's sources?
18:40:32 <planetmaker> that's what I got with the macos SDL port when resizing
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18:40:49 <peter1138> heh, it is out of date though
18:41:31 <Rubidium> planetmaker: sounds like some massive memory corruption or so
18:41:58 <planetmaker> hm. should I reboot? :-)
18:43:09 <Rubidium> planetmaker: no, just sounds like something really bad is going on with SDL on Mac OS X
18:43:34 <planetmaker> hm, I add that there.
18:45:50 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: translators * r18682 /trunk/src/lang/ (8 files): (log message trimmed)
18:45:50 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: -Update from WebTranslator v3.0:
18:45:50 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: traditional_chinese - 1 changes by josesun
18:45:50 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: croatian - 36 changes by
18:45:50 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: czech - 1 changes by martin_meridius
18:45:51 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: korean - 1 changes by junho2813
18:45:51 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: norwegian_bokmal - 5 changes by CyberKenny
18:45:53 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: rubidium * r18683 /trunk/ (16 files in 9 dirs): -Fix: it's not an other
18:51:35 <Rubidium> add it to the resizing one and link to it in the 3447 (3447 depends on 3464)
19:03:18 <andythenorth> building industries on coasts is a headache :(
19:04:26 <fjb> The water runs away every 6 hours...
19:04:58 <andythenorth> now if you'd just help write a massive action 2 chain to detect slopes...?
19:05:44 <sparr> how do you implement a buffer depot?
19:05:58 <fjb> I would start by writing some kind of assembler which takes in something readable and puts out nfo code.
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19:06:56 <andythenorth> fjb: wouldn't help you much, you'd still need to figure out a lot of tile corners, and the branching logic :)
19:07:08 <andythenorth> nfo is not the problem for once, it's just a thorny problem
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19:10:00 <Rubidium> a problem with UTF8 strings?
19:16:32 <sparr> it amazes me that ttdpatch still has such a thriving community
19:18:20 <planetmaker> does anyone know their download stats?
19:19:23 <sparr> peter1138: at all = "such" :)
19:23:59 <_ln> sparr: how surprising is that considering how much more features it has compared to ottd.
19:24:30 <sparr> _ln: I haven't used it in years, so I don't remember what else it did
19:25:00 * andythenorth sad about how the game implements drawing landscape over foundation tiles
19:25:32 <_ln> sparr: me neither, but they e.g. added trams years before ottd did... although the ottd project kind of has the full source code, and ttdpatch does not.
19:26:44 <andythenorth> patch also enables different ship speeds depending on canal / sea tiles
19:58:23 <rhaeder> better add hidden input field (token) to your pastebin, else spammer will rule it down :(
20:01:45 <fjb> Stupid spammers. Who reads pastebin entries which are not linked to?
20:02:53 <Ammler> _ln: the source of ttdpatch is available too
20:03:06 <_ln> Ammler: certainly, but not the source of TTD.
20:03:42 * Ammler wonders, if there is still something running with native TTD code there ;-)
20:06:17 <Zuu> IIRC { ... } after case XYZ: is not mandatory in OpenTTD and should only be used if a variable is used in the case-code.
20:07:14 * Zuu removes unneccessary {} from the filter sign list patch. Not sure who added them.
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20:11:09 <Zuu> Just post your question, and then people can answer your question.
20:11:36 <K> say I built another train station and wanted to add all the 20 trains to now goto this new station aswell
20:11:48 *** fjb is now known as question
20:11:52 <Zuu> Shared orders my friend :-)
20:12:09 *** question is now known as fjb
20:12:13 <K> (been ages since I played this)
20:12:35 <K> I mean.... fjb* not twatface
20:12:39 <Zuu> But you need to make your existing trains to share its orders first, then add the new station.
20:12:58 <K> (been awhile since I played this)
20:13:02 <Zuu> Also ctrl+clone button is good to remember.
20:14:52 <K> just spent last 30mins googling and sifting thru websites trying to find this info lol
20:14:53 <_ln> K: there's a wide big button on the bottom of your keyboard, called "space", which is used to separate words from each other.
20:15:15 <Luukland> or use the right mouse button inside OpenTTD
20:15:25 <Luukland> it will display some extra information
20:16:07 <Zuu> At my keyboard space and return/enter has the same size. Yet I don't use the return key to separate my words. :-p
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20:27:40 <peter1138> heh, 20 ... big ... heh...
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20:38:32 <George> a question about Randomized Action 2 - what is the max value for <nrand> ( Number of set-ids to choose from, must be a power of 2) for houses? Is it 256 or can it 512 and more?
20:42:33 <Ammler> is it possible the music volume control doesn't work?
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21:07:48 <peter1138> especially on linux
21:12:33 <roger> how can I delete openSFX
21:13:37 <roger> because I have 50 KB of a 10 MB file
21:14:26 <planetmaker> roger: you usual file browser will certainly help you
21:14:53 <roger> is it in /usr/share or in ~
21:15:10 <peter1138> .openttd/content_download
21:15:40 <planetmaker> I hope you didn't follow all advice blindly ;-)
21:15:40 <glx> ha right ~/.openttd/content_download :)
21:16:23 <roger> just the .tar file or do I have to clear anything else?
21:16:47 <glx> just the tar (if it's a tar :) )
21:17:00 <glx> on windows using the installer it's a folder
21:37:03 <Rubidium> planetmaker: 29 for 'yesterday', 'today' 27
21:37:43 <planetmaker> that's a slightly different number than for OTTD :-)
21:38:01 <Rubidium> planetmaker: yes, a grep of ttdpatch and zip in the access logs
21:39:54 <planetmaker> thanks for bothering Rubidium :-)
21:44:01 <Rubidium> I wondered myself too, and it's quite easy too look up for me
21:44:57 <peter1138> ttdp and ottd share more than you might think ;)
21:45:00 <Rubidium> looks like people are bored today
21:45:36 <Luukland> Yeah it has never been so busy on the servers ever
21:45:43 <Rubidium> so many bug reports lately :)
21:48:32 <planetmaker> apropos... in depot view... with egrvts and articulated trucks it looks a bit strange
21:49:02 <planetmaker> Rubidium: I guess you got a whole new user basis with the 1....
21:49:18 <planetmaker> (the ... denote what people don't notice anyway :-P )
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21:50:16 <Luukland> Well, I like the new scenario settings with 1.blabla
21:50:52 <planetmaker> scenario settings?
21:51:16 <Luukland> yeah, now you can change settings (eg max loan) in scenario maker
21:51:23 <Luukland> like it was in TTDeluxe
21:51:32 <planetmaker> ah, right. Yes, that's nice to have.
21:51:48 <Luukland> around 5.blabla someone hardcoded this, so that it couldn't be changed inside the editor
21:55:12 <peter1138> 5.blabla? i don't remember that version
21:55:18 <peter1138> but i guess it's a future one
21:55:47 <Luukland> very funny >_< (Referres to: new user basis with the 1.... (the ... denote what people don't notice anyway :-P )
22:01:27 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: rubidium * r18684 /trunk/docs/openttd.6: -Fix: for some "man"s an empty line is an error
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22:34:06 <Zuu> What about having a standard key for cycling around focusing of edit boxes in any window?
22:35:00 <Zuu> Filter sign list patch uses the f-key for focusing the edit box, but it would be nice to have something standardized for that.
22:35:54 <Zuu> What would best fit with the non-(o)ttd world would be to use the tab-key. But that clatches with fast forward in non-debug builds.
22:36:17 <Rubidium> or with tab completion
22:37:38 <Zuu> Or shall we use the f-key or something else fairly un-standard.
22:39:03 <Zuu> I think, redarging your comment on a bug lately that generally windows should not give edit boxes focus by default. Windows like the query string window being an exception since its primarly task is to let users type a string.
22:54:20 <SpComb> hmm... can't change difficult settings on a server?
22:55:29 <Rubidium> in what sense? Changing them in the config file reverts them?
22:56:26 <SpComb> rcon ... "set difficulty.construction_cost 2"
22:56:55 <planetmaker> SpComb: that'd not be multiplayer safe
22:57:15 <SpComb> synch it to the clients just like the other patch settings? :/
22:57:28 <planetmaker> well, you cannot change all settings
22:57:31 <Luukland> I do know that if you change rcon ... "set difficulty.vehicle_breakdowns 1" -> rcon ... "saveconfig" -> Next game it is old value again
22:58:00 <Rubidium> it's deep into the initialisation, NewGRFs can read it, so those need to be reinitialised... i.e. big mayhem
22:58:03 <planetmaker> try to change air speed or vehicle pool
22:58:24 <SpComb> myes, dbsetxl was why I wanted to change it
23:00:03 <fjb> Famous dbset. You have to play it like it was intended by MB. And ou have to pay the real prices of the vehicles at the high difficulty setting.
23:00:17 <SpComb> yes, that's what I wanted :)
23:00:45 <SpComb> what with over a 1.5b€ cash on hand already
23:02:10 *** Rhamphoryncus has joined #openttd
23:02:41 <PeterT> can you update the TRUNK_VERSION.txt file?
23:05:06 *** Rubix`` has joined #openttd
23:13:13 *** sparrL2 has joined #openttd
23:13:51 <sparr> the problem with TTD as a game is that no matter how difficult you make it, the mechanics are geared towards pure success or pure failure. it is almost impossible to continue barely succeeding. once you are making money, you have more of it than you need
23:15:08 <_ln> hmm, that was the most accurate and interesting analysis of the year
23:16:19 <murr4y> that's only if you consider bankcrupcy as failure and everything else as success
23:16:27 <murr4y> you have to set tougher goals for yourself :)
23:17:16 <_ln> well.. after a certain point it tends to happen that your income is so big that you can build virtually anything and never need to think about money anymore.
23:17:28 <murr4y> also, that's not true for multiplayer games.. if you're competing
23:18:41 <murr4y> you might be filthy rich, but still have rankings just a bit lower than your competitor :p
23:30:11 <fonsinchen> petert, what's wrong with it?
23:30:28 <PeterT> it doesn't work against the revision you wrote
23:31:03 <PeterT> That's not what it says in trunk_version.txt...
23:31:39 <fonsinchen> says (for me):r18678
23:31:55 <fonsinchen> some browser cache issue?
23:32:05 <fonsinchen> can anyone else try, please?
23:34:03 <PeterT> You are right, fonsinchen, I just tried in Google Chrome
23:34:22 * Zuu thanks Alberth for nested_widget->index :-)
23:34:29 <PeterT> a hard refresh fixes it
23:35:26 <Zuu> Though, it is kind of neccessary when standard pointer magic isn't possible to determine the index of the focused widget.
23:38:24 <DorpsGek> PeterT: Bilbo was last seen in #openttd 1 year, 50 weeks, 0 days, 0 hours, 57 minutes, and 9 seconds ago: <bilbo> nothing wrong, but also nothing good :)
23:48:29 <DorpsGek> peter1138: bjarni was last seen in #openttd 16 weeks, 3 days, 3 hours, 48 minutes, and 24 seconds ago: <Bjarni> Belugas: there is no reason to write to PeterT. We already know he is unable to read anyway :P
23:49:05 <Rubidium> oh wise lord of the OS X port
23:55:59 * Zuu wishes that the nested lord would be online
23:56:58 *** mirQus_ is now known as mirQus
23:57:18 <Zuu> But maybe the paint-code has an example on how to loop over all widgets (leafs) in a nested widget structure.
23:59:42 <Rubidium> well... that's just ironic
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