IRC logs for #openttd on OFTC at 2009-12-26
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00:51:07 <Bjelleklang> anyone here familiar with the AI API?
00:54:19 <Eddi|zuHause> except the two guys who wrote the api and about half a dozen guys who wrote an ai
00:55:11 <Eddi|zuHause> which are likely not here, as it's probably night
00:56:27 <Bjelleklang> just playing around with the api for fun, and wanted to ask a few questions if they were around
00:57:15 <Eddi|zuHause> and even if they were around, they wouldn't be answering, because you didn't ask an actual question
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02:46:40 <prime> Hi, I'm looking for information on openttd's rendering pipeline
03:02:09 <prime> Does anyone know in which source file the main rendering pipeline is in?
03:07:39 <prime> I'm actually writing a 2-d isometic map editor and wanted to look at other pipes to see the differences in my implementation
03:08:09 <glx> well we just blit sprites :)
03:09:15 <prime> the whole scene for every frame? I kinda wanna implement dirty rectangles but it seems like it would be a pain with isometric
03:09:34 <glx> there are dirty rectangles :)
03:09:46 <glx> would be silly to redraw everything
03:10:12 <prime> my pipe is silly at the moment :)
03:11:42 <glx> though when there's a given amount of dirty rectangles (can't remember the value) we do a full redraw instead many small ones)
03:12:46 <prime> how do yall handle screen movement? Ive been redrawing the entire scene (probably bad).
03:13:12 <prime> Seeing as drawing an entire map to a buffer would consume a lot of memory for large maps
03:18:44 <glx> memory move then refresh of the new visible part
03:20:42 <prime> so you have the entire scene in memory?
03:22:51 <prime> i appreciate the input, gonna go take a look at the sources for a while
03:31:34 * roboboy wonders if we will see a new TTDPatch beta or RC
03:33:50 <Chrill> so, is the next project OpenMusic for ottd? :p
03:40:07 <Chrill> I love the new release
03:40:13 <roboboy> I would personally like to see the new music be jazz or whatever the originals style was
03:40:23 <Chrill> the new music should be the very same style
03:40:37 <Chrill> or perhaps a Locomotion inspired way? Eras have music?
03:40:55 <Chrill> like one runs from 1850-1920, 1920-60, 1960-2000, 2000-ETERNITEH
03:41:41 <Chrill> although how could I ever play OpenTTD without Little Red Diesel and other classics?
04:36:01 <roboboy> I also remember lewis1138 and JT when they were active
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08:55:36 <andythenorth> whoever added bounding box display to the game deserves cookies
08:56:18 <andythenorth> old things are still good things
08:59:27 <andythenorth> and if a 120t steel transporter counts as cookies, cookies will be forthcoming :;
09:01:33 <Alberth> "bounding box display" ?
09:01:40 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: rubidium * r18637 /trunk/src/network/network_content_gui.cpp: -Fix [FS#3428]: check whether the content list is empty before trying to draw it
09:02:30 <Alberth> wrong number of dimensions :)
09:38:52 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: rubidium * r18638 /trunk/src/network/network_content.cpp: -Fix: downloading music sets would fail
09:56:39 * andythenorth bravely enters the strange world of cargo translation tables
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09:59:44 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: rubidium * r18639 /trunk/src/3rdparty/squirrel/ (7 files in 4 dirs):
09:59:44 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: -Update: Squirrel from 2.2.3 to 2.2.4
09:59:44 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: -Revert (r17273): this fix is included in Squirrel 2.2.4
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11:27:11 <andythenorth> fun with bitmasks
11:27:36 <Eddi|zuHause> they are indeed ;)
11:27:36 <andythenorth> makes me feel a teensy bit smarter when I figure it out :|
11:28:47 <andythenorth> I would make HEQS support the copper cargo in canset, but I have no way to test it :|
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11:38:03 <Eddi|zuHause> i have never seen the canset in action...
11:50:53 <planetmaker> I'm talking about train #23
11:51:30 <Eddi|zuHause> switched on pbs reservations and checked for stale reservations?
11:51:43 <planetmaker> yes. They're always on
11:51:55 <planetmaker> and there's no stale reservation
11:52:00 <Eddi|zuHause> have a screenshot?
11:54:12 <Eddi|zuHause> hm... gtg, food and family
11:54:59 <planetmaker> ... hm... it solved when another train reached the station. Afterwards the train also left the depot. I wonder why... Luckily I have a save
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12:05:38 <planetmaker> have to go now... so it won't get forgotten ;-)
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12:29:45 <Ammler> peter's server has a good example grid lock, because pbs has other wait times than the other signals.
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12:55:09 <dragonhorseboy> any of you know whatever happened to the basecost.grf download link? :/ < needs a copy of it again
13:08:31 <Rubidium> I think the link still exists
13:08:52 <Rubidium> whether the thing it's linked to still exists is something else
13:08:53 <dragonhorseboy> rubidium hmm well clicking on it gets a 404 error .. think something went on with the ppcis server
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13:10:21 <dragonhorseboy> ah well guess I'll have to save the server for another time
13:15:32 <dragonhorseboy> hmm maybe a rv+boat only server hehe
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13:26:36 <Ammler> dragonhorseboy: I once uploaded it to bananas too
13:27:06 <dragonhorseboy> ah ok didn't think you would be around now ammler .. guess I'll check that
13:29:19 <dragonhorseboy> ammler btw you still working on any station grfs these days or no?
13:30:28 <Ammler> and btw. the grf is for sure in our grfpack
13:31:01 <Ammler> I can't nfo, I just do sometimes some litle Action0 hacks.
13:32:01 <dragonhorseboy> btw one curious question anyhow but where did the co-op mode go to or was I using some kind of night build before? (not the old mini-in .. there was a different coop play after that one)
13:32:10 <dragonhorseboy> if you're not sure thats ok
13:32:42 <dragonhorseboy> ah..yeah that name sounded familiar...ty...brb
13:33:01 <Ammler> that is still avaible on tt-forums
13:33:47 <dragonhorseboy> I didn't recall whatever the name was before till you mentioned it
13:34:01 <dragonhorseboy> hmm beta5 now .. quite a way from beta2 I used now that I recall it
13:34:56 * dragonhorseboy waits for it to download :)
13:35:53 <Ammler> dragonhorseboy: anyway, thanks for report the 404, fixed.
13:37:34 <dragonhorseboy> the reason I was asking about is2 was that while playing a quick game yesterday (all japan grfs and industry:none basically) there were some commentings on sharing the busy stations instead of having to build several random seperate ones
13:37:47 <dragonhorseboy> might see what goes on if I can get these two people to play is2 as well :)
13:38:12 <Ammler> there should still be some is2 server running
13:38:35 <dragonhorseboy> really? hmm ok one moment to get the is2 folder launched :p
13:40:13 <dragonhorseboy> ah hrm seem they didn't add the skip-sound-folder thing in the is2 build as well.. grr
13:49:27 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: smatz * r18640 /trunk/src/ (core/smallvec_type.hpp network/network_content_gui.cpp):
13:49:27 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: -Fix (r18633): don't assert when accessing first invalid item, it's used quite often in the code
13:49:27 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: -Revert (r18637): it's not needed any more
13:49:47 <Forked> urgh, if only station coverage was one more tile :)
13:51:02 <dragonhorseboy> ammler .. yeah 0.7.5 could skip needing any sound files if user wanted to .. seem is2 build doesn't have this
13:53:05 <dragonhorseboy> hmm where to find the sound files tho >_<
13:55:15 <dragonhorseboy> ok got it finally .. roboboy you said you're already in an is2 game now?
13:57:09 <Ammler> dragonhorseboy: you mean the empty sample.cat?
13:57:24 <dragonhorseboy> that I just noticed .. one of the grf isn't in the banana list tho so looking online now
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14:01:45 <dragonhorseboy> ok downloading the rest now ... :)
14:03:25 <dragonhorseboy> hey what happened? server went off >_<
14:04:39 * dragonhorseboy pokes jonty-comp
14:04:47 <dragonhorseboy> <wanted to see what it was like
14:11:20 <dragonhorseboy> still offline :p
14:14:57 <roboboy> his dedicated hosting might be playing up
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15:20:26 <Kovensky> there's a city in the desert; I ship it passengers, water and food
15:20:29 <Kovensky> and yet it won't grow :(
15:20:41 <Kovensky> 5 years and it's still 715 inhabitants large
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15:46:49 <dragonhorseboy> kovensky I've never played tropical that much .. usually with pineapple+additionals anyway
15:47:13 <dragonhorseboy> its nice for a slow steady game where you're not able to earn much in first place and so keeping small independent networks
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16:09:15 <Luukland> Good afternoon guys, can someone tell me the setting I need to disable to disable trains turning around at signals (because to long waiting?)
16:11:03 <Luukland> Ah found it myselve;
16:11:04 <Luukland> wait_oneway_signal = 15
16:11:04 <Luukland> wait_twoway_signal = 41
16:11:04 <Luukland> wait_for_pbs_path = 30
16:13:59 <SpComb^> it usually just makes the problem worse after some nasty traffic jam
16:14:23 <Eddi|zuHause> no, it should not be default, the reversal algorithm for pbs should be improved
16:14:39 <Eddi|zuHause> it should only reverse if it can actually reserve a path
16:16:03 <Eddi|zuHause> and those settings should be available from the gui
16:19:13 <Ammler> Eddi|zuHause: when do you need a train to reverse?
16:19:40 <Eddi|zuHause> Ammler: occasionally that can resolve deadlocks while you are not looking
16:19:56 <Eddi|zuHause> Ammler: ideally, a train should warn that it is stuck before reversing
16:20:57 <Ammler> my experience is that revering trains produce deadlocks :-)
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16:24:11 <Eddi|zuHause> yeah, but you don't build flat junctions ;)
16:25:16 <Ammler> but something for sure, you can't disable pbs waiting and enable the block signal waiting, either you disable both or none.
16:25:59 <Eddi|zuHause> i don't ever build block signals anymore
16:27:07 <Eddi|zuHause> althoug, since pbs, you can get most flat junctions blocking-free at the cost of long signal distances
16:27:53 <Ammler> well, I prefer compact lines than 10 parallel lines
16:30:57 <Eddi|zuHause> i meant deadlock-free
16:34:51 <SpComb^> flat junctions are ok
16:35:45 <Eddi|zuHause> some of my non-pbs flat junctions were amazingly effective ;)
16:38:15 <Ammler> well, if every week one train uses your junction, it is easy to be effective :-P
16:42:27 <Eddi|zuHause> well, they are fine for "medium" traffic
16:42:51 <Eddi|zuHause> for "high" traffic, the chance of deadlocks increases drastically
17:01:03 <dihedral> TrueBrain, what are you doing not in 'the other channel'?
17:01:33 <dihedral> anyway - would be quite cool to have an icon on servers.openttd.org informing if all grf's of the server are available via bananas :-)
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18:45:34 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: translators * r18641 /trunk/src/lang/ (4 files in 2 dirs):
18:45:34 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: -Update from WebTranslator v3.0:
18:45:34 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: catalan - 6 changes by arnau
18:45:34 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: croatian - 36 changes by
18:45:34 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: norwegian_nynorsk - 15 changes by 2rB
18:45:34 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: russian - 4 changes by Lone_Wolf
18:45:34 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: vietnamese - 45 changes by motorolavn, nglekhoi
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18:52:36 <SpComb^> I think my track layouts are a bit too detailed, adding in two pieces of track at a station's junction-area caused a 60-train jam-up :(
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19:28:41 <TrueBrain> dihedral: that indeed is a good idea :) If you write the patch, I will review it ;) :p
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19:59:06 <__ln> how long does it take to the US by ferry?
20:04:56 <andythenorth> __ln: took me a couple of hours
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21:16:27 <andythenorth> FIRS has mostly the same cargos and industries in the main three climates...
21:16:39 <andythenorth> does that harm the game's charm?
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22:31:27 <sparr> over in #openttdcoop we are playing a game where inflation is causing some previously-very-profitable trains to become unprofitable. is that expected?
22:34:50 <sparr> will that trend continue? that is, is there no way to make profit in the year 3000+ ?
22:35:22 <peter1138> well, inflation will stop at some point
22:35:42 <Eddi|zuHause> inflation should stop after 130 years or so
22:39:08 <Eddi|zuHause> so if you started in 2050 that's 170 years
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23:02:45 <Eddi|zuHause> happy end of christmas
23:03:42 <PeterT> Oh, that last possible time zone...
23:04:08 <Eddi|zuHause> christmas ends on the 26th
23:04:40 <murr4y> christmas lasts til easter!
23:12:40 <sparr> i read a spec fiction story a long time ago about the commercialization of christmas
23:12:55 <sparr> main character was a marketing guy for a big retail store
23:13:06 <sparr> the "christmas season" started in july
23:13:37 <sparr> the punchline of the whole book was at the very end when he couldn't figure out why his girlfriend's quaint family only celebrated on "the last day of the season"
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23:51:36 <sparr> is there a way to get a plane to divert for repairs when it breaks down far from its destination, without having it always stop at an intermediate airport?
23:52:33 <SpComb^> service it more often
23:53:33 <Eddi|zuHause> sparr: as there is no such thing as "air-waypoints", you can't sensibly use conditional orders
23:54:00 <SpComb^> navigational beacons!
23:54:10 <SpComb^> and an ATC game-mode!
23:54:58 <Eddi|zuHause> SpComb^: i think someone made an extensive suggestion topic about that
23:56:42 <SpComb^> one's always free to make suggestions
23:58:08 <Ammler> couldn't you set a plane order with no-load and no-unload?
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