IRC logs for #openttd on OFTC at 2009-12-20
⏴ go to previous day
00:13:29 *** Progman has joined #openttd
00:15:21 <Eddi|zuHause> hm... the cargodist thread is impossible to follow... every time i look at it, there's like half a dozen new pages
00:19:14 *** lobster has joined #openttd
00:30:44 *** valhallasw has joined #openttd
00:53:35 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: smatz * r18558 /trunk/src/ai/api/ai_map.hpp: -Cleanup (r18557): no need to document TILE_INVALID twice
01:01:06 *** weaselboy246 has joined #openttd
01:15:05 *** LadyHawk has joined #openttd
01:15:34 <SmatZ> "I wasn't lying, I was just mystificating"
01:16:45 *** DaleStan is now known as Guest192
01:16:47 *** DaleStan has joined #openttd
01:28:23 *** KenjiE20|LT has joined #openttd
01:32:45 *** Coco-Banana-Man has quit IRC
01:43:37 *** Brianetta has joined #openttd
02:01:22 *** Rubix`` has joined #openttd
02:09:40 *** DaleStan is now known as Guest209
02:09:41 *** DaleStan has joined #openttd
02:20:52 *** ChanServ sets mode: +v tokai
02:39:49 <Eddi|zuHause> and what's a "MUI"?
02:40:52 <Eddi|zuHause> and your inner city connectivity could use some work
02:40:59 <Eddi|zuHause> like tram networks
02:41:58 <Rhamphoryncus> hrm. I remember thinking there was a good reason to use trams, but I haven't played a while and now I'm not sure. Was it loading time?
02:42:58 <Eddi|zuHause> that's probably depending on the tram set
02:43:28 <Eddi|zuHause> their main advantage is that you don't need to tear down half the city to get a decent capacity link
02:43:46 <Rhamphoryncus> Compared to buses?
02:44:33 <Eddi|zuHause> compaired to trains
02:44:51 <Eddi|zuHause> in most sets, busses have a lower capacity
02:50:26 <Rhamphoryncus> the per-vehicle capacity isn't the bottleneck though. It's the loading time
02:55:33 *** Rubix`` has joined #openttd
03:01:07 <Eddi|zuHause> with cargodist, the loading time doesn't matter that much, as a vehicle rarely gets completely empty and refills at a stop
03:02:07 <Eddi|zuHause> unless your "network" only consists of point-to-point lines
03:16:14 <SpComb^> Eddi|zuHause: in what way?
03:16:24 <SpComb^> routing of the trams?
03:19:09 <SpComb^> currently I have big overcapacity on the trams, because I built them when I still had 0x passenger generation
03:19:21 <SpComb^> now I have a quarter of the passengers, so the tram stops are pretty well served
03:19:37 <SpComb^> bug yes, e.g. Brindworth falls and Chunpool have both expanded a lot since I last updated the tram networks
04:35:45 *** weaselboy246 has joined #openttd
04:57:29 *** roboboy has joined #openttd
05:19:59 *** Singaporekid has joined #openttd
06:14:53 *** Rubix`` has joined #openttd
07:22:42 *** valhallasw has joined #openttd
08:04:57 <Rhamphoryncus> I do point to point specifically to improve throughput
08:50:44 *** Alberth has joined #openttd
09:00:49 <Noldo> interesting, quantity_sea_lakes and terrain_type have no effect on tropic and arctic
09:26:49 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: peter1138 * r18559 /trunk/src/genworld_gui.cpp: -Fix: When using original landscape generator, the terrain type and water level fields have no effect for arctic or tropic climates, so disable the dropdowns.
09:29:07 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: peter1138 * r18560 /trunk/src/genworld_gui.cpp: -Fix (r18541): variety distribution dropdown should not be on heightmap window.
09:38:22 *** fonsinchen has joined #openttd
09:38:32 <_ln> guten morgen, liebe zuschauer
09:56:23 <peter1138> openttd... 19m resident
09:56:33 <peter1138> after all these years it's still pretty small
09:56:50 <planetmaker> and then a 2k^2 map comes...
09:57:33 <planetmaker> btw: good morning :-) Nice and snowy outside here...
09:58:10 <peter1138> not snowing right now
09:58:21 <peter1138> still some snow on the ground though
09:59:55 <peter1138> heh, 2k^2 map generation can be... slow
10:01:10 <planetmaker> yes... but unproblematic IMO as long as it gives occasional feed-back. It's a one-time event
10:01:25 <peter1138> it does these days yes :)
10:01:56 <peter1138> hmm, what i'd want from a 2k^2 map: 2 or 3 large landmasses separated by a LOT of ocean
10:02:26 <peter1138> rather than everything just spread out over the whole lot
10:02:40 <peter1138> something that gives ships a purpose...
10:02:40 <planetmaker> I didn't test: what does 'much water' and 'very high' diversity yield?
10:03:20 <planetmaker> he... ships & purpose. Are there any *ideas* how PF for ships could be made lighter on CPUs?
10:03:23 <peter1138> lots of lakes and islands
10:03:49 <peter1138> predefined shipping lines
10:04:34 <planetmaker> as in our current PS game we have... dunno about 50...60 ships. We'd gain 33% speed or so (someone tested), if we hand't them...
10:04:54 <planetmaker> s/speed/less CPU usage/
10:05:18 <planetmaker> and we even have buoys every 10 tiles at most
10:08:07 <planetmaker> opf as recommended IIRC. We didn't change that.
10:08:36 <peter1138> easy way to test speed difference: stop all ships
10:09:01 <planetmaker> yapf would be wrong there, too, as the water masses are not small. Kinda a Marlborough Sounds like scenario ;-)
10:09:26 <SmatZ> planetmaker: YAPF does caching, it could be better
10:09:28 <planetmaker> true... just stopping them...
10:11:54 *** Cybertinus has joined #openttd
10:13:25 <planetmaker> ok... with OPF: 90% vs. 80% CPU usage with 58 ships and 930 trains
10:14:49 <planetmaker> YAPF is definitely worse... 95 ... 100%
10:15:44 *** |Jeroen| has joined #openttd
10:15:54 *** JVassie has joined #openttd
10:16:17 <planetmaker> best is NPF in this scenario. It nearly produces no overhead...
10:20:14 <peter1138> number of towns needs scaling down
10:20:54 <peter1138> if you want to play
10:21:45 <peter1138> set amplitude to something big, say 100000
10:22:51 <peter1138> it's not ideal mind you
10:23:04 <peter1138> the variation above water is limited
10:23:09 <planetmaker> that depends on definiton of "town". Small villages wouldn't hurt... if they stay small
10:24:15 <planetmaker> that's how you generated that map?
10:25:18 <peter1138> high water level, very rough, mountainous
10:30:16 *** Progman has joined #openttd
10:31:22 <planetmaker> hm... another setting for the mapgen? :-)
10:33:19 <peter1138> not unless i can figure out how to get more detail
10:33:30 <peter1138> it's not very rough at all
10:35:02 <peter1138> if the amplitude of the higher frequencies is increased it will counteract the water/islands effect :/
10:36:15 <planetmaker> less islands? yes...
10:37:35 <planetmaker> But... what one could do is: use the big amplitude and allow large masses of water. If additional (smaller) islands are desired add another run of this, with the same amplitude but smaller frequency. BUT only add it, if the height is above a certain threshold. E.g. don't use it to lower land
10:38:20 <planetmaker> newheight += high_freq_height > 0 ? high_freq_height : 0
10:38:32 <peter1138> basically i'm thinking another pass, similar to your idea
11:12:25 <_ln> famous last words: "hmm, actually"
11:15:30 *** Coco-Banana-Man has joined #openttd
11:22:48 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: rubidium * r18561 /trunk/src/roadveh_cmd.cpp: -Fix [FS#3390]: Do try to overtake a vehicle in a station as overtaking in a station is not allowed
11:26:02 <Eddi|zuHause> famous missing "not"
11:35:47 *** lobster has joined #openttd
11:42:13 *** Illegal_Alien has joined #openttd
11:51:50 *** Polygon has joined #openttd
11:51:52 *** terjesc has joined #openttd
12:00:05 *** KenjiE20 has joined #openttd
12:28:59 *** [com]buster has joined #openttd
12:29:24 *** EdoDodo has joined #openttd
12:29:29 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: rubidium * r18562 /trunk/src/ai/api/ai_accounting.hpp: -Document: improve clarity of the AIAccounting class
12:30:43 <EdoDodo> Hi, does anyone know how I can uninstall AIs that I downloaded from the in-game content download?
12:31:03 <EdoDodo> Can't seem to find how to do it anywhere
12:31:16 *** Brianetta has joined #openttd
12:40:44 <planetmaker> just de-activate it in the AI submenu available from the main menu
12:41:10 <planetmaker> if you mean it in "delete the files", you'll have to resort to the usual tools of your OS
12:45:47 *** welshdragon has joined #openttd
13:00:50 *** lewymati has joined #openttd
13:07:28 <EdoDodo> Well I like to use random AIs, so I can't manually deselect an individual AI, if I wanted to delete the file for it so it is never chosen in the random AIs, where would it be located?
13:08:11 <Rubidium> the readme has a section about that
13:08:35 <Rubidium> (read: I don't know the answer, but I know where you can find the answer)
13:09:06 <welshdragon> EdoDodo: Documents/OpenTTD/AI
13:09:36 <Eddi|zuHause> likely put an "online_content" inbetween there
13:09:45 <Eddi|zuHause> or "content_download"
13:10:01 <Alberth> aka read the readme :)
13:10:18 <welshdragon> EdoDodo: Documents/OpenTTD/content_download/AI
13:10:23 <Eddi|zuHause> i never play with AI...
13:11:41 <EdoDodo> Awesome, thanks, so just deleting the files will make it disappear ingame?
13:12:33 <EdoDodo> Okay, works, thanks :)
13:13:11 <EdoDodo> I was looking for something in the actual game's folder, didn't think of checking in the Documents
13:13:33 <welshdragon> OSX is sneaky like that
13:13:55 <Alberth> no, it is due to thinking in multi-user systems
13:14:16 <Alberth> not everybody may have write permissions at the game folders
13:16:56 <SirSquidness> Random question: What is the maximum crates/month output of a factory?
13:17:02 <SirSquidness> Somewhere around 27K?
13:25:58 <Eddi|zuHause> SirSquidness: i don't think there is a maximum, but if there were, it would be something like 65k
13:28:09 <SirSquidness> My mate who's showing off his latest achiement has hit the same figure in the 27K region three times and not a crate over, and seen the same figure on the ttd wiki of a giant factory
13:31:57 <Eddi|zuHause> then i can't comment on that, i never had such a megalomanic network...
13:32:14 <Eddi|zuHause> but 27k does seem very random for a limit
13:32:29 <SirSquidness> yeah, that's what I thought
13:32:32 *** frosch123 has joined #openttd
13:32:36 <SirSquidness> I figured it would be a 2^n - 1
13:33:47 <Eddi|zuHause> especially since all the delivery->production transformations are supposed to be instantaneous and independent...
13:34:38 *** Luukland has joined #openttd
13:34:52 <Luukland> Guys I have a problem, someone is blocking other ppl from going into my server
13:35:07 <Luukland> disconnecting the joining process and joining again is impossible
13:35:30 <PeterT> He may not be purposfully diong that
13:35:35 <PeterT> His connection just sux
13:35:50 <Luukland> cos I am not in the server
13:36:29 <Luukland> but it is alredy so for 6 minutes
13:37:00 <glx> doesn't count the download I think
13:37:19 <Luukland> yet it is happening a lot lately
13:38:19 <Luukland> is there a fix for this planned in future version of OTTD?
13:38:26 <Luukland> or do I have to make one myselve?
13:40:18 <Rubidium> only every tileloop at most 255 * rating pieces are moved, tileloops only happen every 16 or so ticks -> 74 * 30 / 16 * 255 * rating -> ~35.000 with rating 1 (100%), at rating 0.8 (80%) you'd get ~27.000
13:45:48 <Luukland> 1 tick is approximately 30 ms
13:45:55 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: rubidium * r18563 /trunk/src/ (industry_map.h industrytype.h): -Document: some industry related functions
13:48:41 *** Eddi|zuHause has joined #openttd
13:49:33 *** fonsinchen has joined #openttd
13:55:55 *** lobstar has joined #openttd
14:05:48 <gathers> could someone explain to me how to add a new setting correctly? I've come as far as to have it show up in game, but where are all the arguments to SDT_CONDBOOL(...) defined?
14:06:09 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: glx * r18564 /trunk/src/fontcache.cpp: -Fix: silence a warning
14:08:25 <gathers> if a new vehicle_flag is added, do I need to increase the savegame version or something?
14:15:51 *** HerzogDeXtEr1 has joined #openttd
14:18:21 *** PeterT_ has joined #openttd
14:18:35 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: rubidium * r18565 /trunk/src/tgp.cpp: -Fix [FS#3391] (r18541): some older GCC warn about implicitly casting from floats to integers
14:29:07 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: frosch * r18566 /trunk/src/ (3 files): -Codechange: When both the union and intersection of refit masks of articulated vehicles are needed, they can be determined at once.
14:42:07 *** Polygon has joined #openttd
14:50:55 <DorpsGek> Muxy: belugas was last seen in #openttd 1 day, 14 hours, 28 minutes, and 14 seconds ago: * Belugas is going on tv mode
14:52:42 <Alberth> he is usually here mon-fri while at work.
14:53:45 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: rubidium * r18567 /trunk/src/ (house.h table/town_land.h town_cmd.cpp town_map.h): -Fix [FS#2613]: [NewGRF] House property 15 did not work
14:55:57 *** Eddi|zuHause has joined #openttd
14:58:24 <Rubidium> oh... where is that OSX maintainer?
14:59:54 <Rubidium> got to love that basically 100% of the open bugs is OSX minus the one that's most likely a broken network
15:00:44 <Eddi|zuHause> brb, breaking my X
15:02:47 <_ln> if you had dropped OS X support, then those bugs could just be closed as wontfix.
15:02:48 *** Eddi|zuHause has joined #openttd
15:08:33 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: frosch * r18568 /trunk/src/vehicle.cpp: -Codechange: Bail out early.
15:19:48 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: rubidium * r18569 /extra/ottd_grf/split/ (openttdgui.nfo openttdgui.pcx): [OTTD_GRF] -Add: sprites for window shading (erikjanp)
15:20:32 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: rubidium * r18570 /trunk/bin/data/ (5 files): -Merge (r18569): sprites for window shading
15:21:51 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: frosch * r18571 /trunk/src/vehicle.cpp: -Fix (r18551): Vehicles not carrying any cargo (e.g. engines) were not considered for sending to depot for replacement.
15:23:00 *** Eddi|zuHause has joined #openttd
15:23:23 *** JVassie has joined #openttd
15:34:27 *** mib_dsb0eh has joined #openttd
15:37:51 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: frosch * r18572 /trunk/src/table/settings.h: -Change: Enable 'multiple NewGRF engine sets' by default.
15:39:56 <frosch123> Eddi|zuHause: Congratz, you have been elected to the master reviewer of default settings (esp. GUI settings). Do you obey the vote?
15:44:12 <frosch123> that is no valid answer in this context :p
15:44:54 <Eddi|zuHause> i accept, if you tell me why my tv card has stopped working...
15:45:22 <frosch123> depends how much it has stopped :)
15:45:37 <frosch123> is it listed in lspci, are the modules listed in lsmod?
15:45:58 <Eddi|zuHause> boot.msg says "<6>b2c2-flexcop: initialization of 'Sky2PC/SkyStar 2 DVB-S (old version)' at the 'PCI' bus controlled by a 'FlexCopII' complete"
15:46:11 <Eddi|zuHause> but in kaffeine, the dvb button has disappeared
15:46:47 <frosch123> do you have /dev/video0
15:47:11 <Eddi|zuHause> i don't remember ever having that
15:47:26 <Eddi|zuHause> but i have /dev/dvb*
15:47:31 <frosch123> hmm, maybe the dvb one is called different
15:47:46 *** worldemar has joined #openttd
15:50:51 <frosch123> did you try opening /dev/dvb* with some mplayer
15:51:09 <frosch123> (though you wouldn't be able to tune)
15:59:31 *** Eddi|zuHause has joined #openttd
16:02:43 <_ln> Eddi|zuHause: do you have drivers loaded, including the frontend module?
16:03:52 *** Rubix`` has joined #openttd
16:10:56 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: michi_cc * r18573 /trunk/src/video/cocoa/wnd_quartz.mm: -Fix [FS#3198]: [OSX] Try to get a generic RGB colour space if getting the system colour profile failed. (tyler)
16:12:04 <peter1138> zomg, an OSX bugfix
16:14:16 <Eddi|zuHause> makes still 100% osx bugs ;)
16:14:59 <Eddi|zuHause> how can two cats make so much noise without opening their mouths?
16:15:22 <_ln> cat /dev/random & cat /dev/urandom ?
16:15:50 <Eddi|zuHause> /dev/random is sloooow...
16:16:25 <_ln> can't roll the dice at supersonic speeds to avoid overheating.
16:20:00 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: rubidium * r18574 /trunk/src/ (roadveh_cmd.cpp ship_cmd.cpp train_cmd.cpp): -Fix [FS#3392] (r18481): manually sending trains and RVs to depots didn't quite work
16:32:59 *** Singaporekid has left #openttd
16:42:51 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: rubidium * r18575 /trunk/src/ (depot_gui.cpp gfx.cpp gfx_func.h): -Fix [FS#3393]: unit numbers weren't always fully shown in the depot
16:45:03 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: rubidium * r18576 /trunk/src/ (vehicle_gui.cpp vehicle_gui_base.h): -Codechange: use the function to determine the width of digits for determining the width of the unitnumber in vehicle lists.
16:54:32 *** pavel1269 has joined #openttd
16:54:40 <pavel1269> oh, finally, hello everyone :-)
16:57:50 <peter1138> oh dear, this piano piece has double-sharps :s
16:57:54 <Eddi|zuHause> hello, he who mimics the nick of a dev
16:58:31 <pavel1269> are you pointing at me eddi?
16:58:33 <Eddi|zuHause> peter1138: oh, i have never encountered those... double b's i have, though
16:59:28 <peter1138> Zart und nicht zu langsam
16:59:44 <peter1138> Con tenerezza e non troppo lento
17:01:40 *** Rhamphoryncus has joined #openttd
17:09:27 *** De_Ghosty has joined #openttd
17:25:18 <Sacro> how do you get the seed values for a map?
17:29:04 <Eddi|zuHause> from the console
17:29:18 <pavel1269> or InteractiveRandom()
17:39:07 *** worldemar has joined #openttd
17:42:06 <SpComb^> what do you need to transport food in the alpine climate when playing the DBSetXL?
17:42:51 *** Grelouk has joined #openttd
17:44:39 *** Alberth has joined #openttd
17:44:57 <Eddi|zuHause> a) there should be no food in alpine climate, b) try the dbxl_ecs.grf
17:45:57 <SpComb^> the towns in the alpine game say "Cargo needed for town growth: Food required in winter"
17:46:13 <Eddi|zuHause> they do say that, yes
17:46:31 <Eddi|zuHause> because the grf cannot disable that requirement
17:46:43 <Eddi|zuHause> so towns above snow line will never grow, unless you fund buildings
17:46:45 <SpComb^> but I also have two different kinds of factories :/
17:47:06 <SpComb^> and food processing plants
17:47:10 <Eddi|zuHause> you probably mixed it with another industries grf
17:47:16 <pavel1269> sounds like a nice mess in newgrfs :-)
17:47:46 <SpComb^> so alpine + PBI don't mix
17:48:43 <Eddi|zuHause> you can easily disable the industry part of alpine via grfcodec
17:49:26 <pavel1269> easily for sameone, who does not code in nfo? :-)
17:51:02 <Eddi|zuHause> yes, replace sprite 1060 with this line: 1060 * 7 07 9A 01 00 00 00
17:51:41 <pavel1269> now i know whats first number for :-D
17:52:22 <Lakie> Doesn't sound too inspirng...
17:52:23 <Eddi|zuHause> (originally, that line contains a check for newcargo.grf, this replacement makes an unconditional check)
17:52:48 <Eddi|zuHause> but the houses will still not accept food...
17:55:29 <SpComb^> true, they don't even accept it
17:55:42 <SpComb^> newgrfs are pretty complicated :(
17:56:28 <SpComb^> why is it like that, then?
17:56:53 <SpComb^> shouldn't the alpine GRF make sure that you can produce and transport food if you actually need it?
17:58:04 <Eddi|zuHause> the alpine grf was intended to copy the temperate gameplay with added snow
17:58:20 <Eddi|zuHause> so the intention was to remove food altogether, which is not implemented
17:58:21 <SpComb^> and a side effect is that towns above the snowline don't grow?
17:58:31 <peter1138> possibly that's because you have PBI loaded too
17:59:33 <Eddi|zuHause> that is more or less directly what MB said
17:59:59 <Eddi|zuHause> "the intention was to remove food, but to remove the food requirement cannot be changed by newgrf [yet]"
18:00:25 *** oskari89 has joined #openttd
18:00:43 <peter1138> openttd bug possibly...
18:00:47 <peter1138> food is not listed as a cargo type
18:00:53 <peter1138> but it's still required
18:01:13 <Eddi|zuHause> afair it's the same in TTDPatch, too
18:01:17 <SpComb^> I guess it's because of PBI that I have a food processing plant
18:01:36 <peter1138> Eddi|zuHause, possibly, but i don't care about that ;)
18:02:32 <Eddi|zuHause> peter1138: apart from hacking a "disable food/water requirement" option, one could start implementing more control over town growth by newgrf callback
18:03:15 <Eddi|zuHause> anyway, it's not technically a "bug", it's a "known unimplemented feature"
18:03:31 <Eddi|zuHause> and i'm rebooting (again)
18:03:31 *** Terkhen has joined #openttd
18:05:12 <frosch123> or implement snow in temperate :p
18:10:33 *** Eddi|zuHause has joined #openttd
18:11:30 <SpComb^> great coincidence, the first BR05 I built was Train #100
18:11:58 <peter1138> what is coincidental about that?
18:12:19 <SpComb^> BR05's are special trains, according to this here guide, only three were ever built!
18:12:24 <SpComb^> and they're the fastest trains as well
18:12:34 *** EdoDodo has joined #openttd
18:14:02 <EdoDodo> Hi again, I have one more question... When I'm setting up the game difficulty settings I don't seem to have 'comptetitor start time'
18:14:06 *** Timmaexx has joined #openttd
18:14:59 <EdoDodo> Has it been removed or something, or do I need to change something in the config file to have it show up
18:15:38 <Rubidium> that has become an AI setting
18:16:32 <EdoDodo> Hadn't thought of checking in the AI settings
18:19:12 *** Timmaexx has joined #openttd
18:23:18 <glx> quite explicit, the icon is not found
18:23:24 <Eddi|zuHause> it can't find media/openttd.ico, obviously
18:24:36 <PeterT> Should that be placed in the ../os/win32/installer directory?
18:24:56 <Eddi|zuHause> open your eyes...
18:25:44 <glx> compile the nsi from its location
18:26:40 <PeterT> using build_installers.bat
18:27:09 <George> A question about global vars
18:27:45 <George> I would like to ask to reserve a var for future use
18:29:24 <George> Rubidium: glx: frosch123: What do you think?
18:29:46 <George> Stored value - daylength factor
18:29:50 <Rubidium> depends on what's free in TTDP
18:30:30 <George> Current result - always 1h? or would it be better to have 100h?
18:30:39 <Eddi|zuHause> i'm not convinced that a single daylength factor will suffice
18:31:31 <Eddi|zuHause> one of the various daylength patches split up the value
18:31:36 <George> Eddi|zuHause: We need something to start with? don't we?
18:32:05 <Eddi|zuHause> yes, but this is the time where one needs an implementation-independent interface
18:32:29 <George> Eddi|zuHause: Can you suggest something?
18:32:48 <Eddi|zuHause> because meanwhile there's at least half a dozen implementations, and none of these are expected to get trunk-worthy
18:33:13 <George> I get more and more questions about day lenght patch support in ECS
18:33:32 <frosch123> can't you make your implementation independent of daylength?
18:33:59 <Eddi|zuHause> i still don't understand what the actual problem is
18:34:05 <George> frosch123: I have a long discussion with patch dev last week
18:34:18 <George> the result is - No, I can't
18:34:44 <George> Eddi|zuHause: ECS does not work with day length patch
18:35:00 <Eddi|zuHause> "does not work" is not a problem description
18:35:03 <frosch123> iirc your industries were planning the production for next month, so you could just output (current_day_of_month * planned_production_this_month/31 - production_this_month)
18:36:35 <George> frosch123: Unfortunately, it is more complicated
18:36:48 <Eddi|zuHause> PS: possibly you don't want a "day length" variable, but a "multiple of 256 tick callback frequency" variable
18:36:56 <George> The problems I have now are
18:37:21 <George> 1) CBs and var 2A get desinc
18:37:38 <George> 2) CBs happen unknown times
18:38:36 <frosch123> why do you need to know the exact time of a callback?
18:39:15 <George> Eddi|zuHause: Yes, but I need to be sure that it affects all CBs
18:39:18 <George> frosch123: 2A (Word) - Production counter, decremented on every tick, used for timing of primary industry production. Many places uses this data. If every 256-tick callbacks happen every 512 ticks, this war should be decremented every 2 ticks, not every tick.
18:39:52 <George> frosch123: I need to know not atime, but a number of CBs
18:40:05 <George> I use it to calculate the level
18:40:17 <Eddi|zuHause> but this decrementing should be part of the daylength patch, or not?
18:40:29 <frosch123> ah, you mean variable AA
18:41:05 <George> The idea is simple - you have to have as much resources stored, as number of processed * number of times to process
18:41:35 <George> previously I expected it to be 9, but with day length patch it is not true anymore
18:42:12 <frosch123> well, but isn't the problem the "number of processed" ?
18:42:27 <frosch123> or do you want to produce more when the days are longer?
18:42:49 <frosch123> well, then replace it with (current_day_of_month * planned_production_this_month/31 - production_this_month)
18:42:49 <George> I mean it is defined by the current data
18:43:18 <frosch123> then it does not matter how often it is called, you will always get the same output during one month
18:43:19 <George> yes. If I have CB happen 18 times instead of 9, I have to store 2 times more cargo
18:43:44 <glx> when ran from os/windows/installer
18:44:14 <George> number of processed is defined by var 93
18:44:17 <Eddi|zuHause> that's one of the disputed features: should there be more production per month [and as balance less income], or should the production be thinned out
18:45:36 <George> Eddi|zuHause: Unfortunately, the discussion with the patch devs leads us to the fact that it is too hard to increase the day length and not to increase the production
18:45:42 <frosch123> indeed, that is one of the major points where every implementation differs
18:45:43 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: translators * r18577 /trunk/src/lang/ (8 files in 2 dirs): (log message trimmed)
18:45:43 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: -Update from WebTranslator v3.0:
18:45:43 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: basque - 4 changes by Thadah
18:45:43 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: croatian - 36 changes by
18:45:43 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: finnish - 7 changes by jpx_
18:45:43 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: hungarian - 7 changes by alyr
18:45:43 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: indonesian - 9 changes by prof
18:46:13 <frosch123> so, you mean ttdpatch devs? or some random ottd patch?
18:46:29 <George> I mean day length patch dev
18:46:30 <Eddi|zuHause> the random ottd daylength patch dev, i presume
18:48:01 <peter1138> so don't the standard industries that have no callbacks have similar issues?
18:48:45 <George> I suppose they do not - they do not process cargo every 256 ticks, but immidently
18:49:04 <peter1138> are you sure about that?
18:49:19 <frosch123> primary industries have the 256 ticks cycle
18:49:36 <George> No - I do not test the patch myself yet
18:50:55 <George> So, may I reserve var 26?
18:51:26 <PeterT> glx: Hmm, I don't know then
18:51:31 <PeterT> glx: What version do you have?
18:51:39 <frosch123> you can reverse everything if you make clear that it is only used by a certain patched version
18:51:46 <glx> I checked trunk and 0.7.5-RC1
18:52:16 <frosch123> but please don't enforce the meaning of the variable on future patches if they have a different production concept
18:54:18 <George> frosch123: I plan to write it in the following way: "Reserved for day length data, format would be defined later"
18:54:59 <PeterT> <glx> how do you run the bat? <-- Click on it?
18:55:44 <glx> it's not meant to be clicked
18:55:57 <frosch123> do you want to use some grfparamter to enable daylength usage?
18:56:03 <PeterT> How is it meant to be used?
18:56:12 <frosch123> or how are you going to detect the presence of the variable?
18:56:16 <glx> anyway installer should be used for official releases only
18:56:30 <PeterT> 0.7.5-RC1 is an official release?
18:56:44 <Eddi|zuHause> nonexisting variables return 0? or "undefined"?
18:56:50 <glx> why build it ? It's already available
18:57:31 <frosch123> Eddi|zuHause: i think that changed over time
18:57:42 <frosch123> maybe ttdp segfaults
18:59:31 <George> I hope it would be an easy task for OTTD dev to provide a support for a var that always returns the same value. I hope it is not a hard task even in TTDP
18:59:53 <frosch123> George: but that requires the var to have a defined meaning
19:00:27 <George> Well, as soon as we decided to have it - we can start to discuss its meaning
19:00:28 <frosch123> and as i already said, don't enforce a meaning as daylength to damn undefined that any implementation has it's own concept and requirements
19:01:20 <George> I suppose there are not too many day length patches - I can contact their devs and ask their opinion
19:01:43 <Alberth> perhaps daylength devs should provide code for it
19:02:08 <frosch123> i guess you need a least a flag in var85
19:02:36 <frosch123> Alberth: there is no way to make ottd compatible to something not defined :)
19:02:58 <Alberth> of course, that kind of means that you'll get as many ECS versions as there are daylength patches
19:03:12 <Eddi|zuHause> the meaning could be exponential, like in SpComb^'s "passenger" reduction patch, including signed values for increasing and decreasing
19:03:26 <Alberth> frosch123: no, but in that way, the daylength dev is responsible for filling in the undefined value
19:04:30 <George> Alberth: They would provide code that provides more varianths than value, that says everything goes as in original game
19:05:08 <George> Currently the question is default value, that indicates "default" behaviour
19:05:31 <Eddi|zuHause> but even that "default" value can mean different things
19:05:49 <Eddi|zuHause> for example it should be 0 for an exponential setting, but 1 for a multiplicator
19:06:03 <George> It can only mean, that it works as without the patch
19:06:39 <frosch123> George: maybe you should rather add a grf parameter to control the daylength effect
19:06:46 <frosch123> that way you are indepentent of implementations
19:06:49 <George> Eddi|zuHause: For multiplicator it can be val-1, providing 0 as default
19:07:59 <George> And every user would have to specify it? I see users have problems with the current simple parameters :)
19:08:20 <George> I suppose it would be better to support it on the code side if it is not too hard
19:09:02 <frosch123> as i said, i won't add a variable to ottd, as that would set its meaning in stone
19:09:37 <Eddi|zuHause> yeah, a flag "this version supports daylength" should be safer
19:10:34 <frosch123> btw. action d patch variable would also be an alternative to a var2
19:10:45 <George> Eddi|zuHause: a flag has only a bit value?
19:11:18 <Eddi|zuHause> George: yes, but that way, you can still add the variable in the daylength patch, but openttd-vanilla must only provide the flag
19:11:38 <Eddi|zuHause> so the grf can check whether it can access the daylength variable
19:11:46 <frosch123> George: there are also flags for "shortrvs" etc...
19:11:50 <Eddi|zuHause> and there is no need for a default value
19:12:42 <George> Eddi|zuHause: good point, it saves us from defining default value
19:13:50 <George> but the var is required and it can't be used for several objects at the same time
19:14:32 <George> what bit do you suggest to use in var 85?
19:17:04 *** pavel1269 has joined #openttd
19:18:34 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: rubidium * r18578 /trunk/src/network/network_gui.cpp: -Feature: initially select the last joined server when going to the server list
19:23:47 <George> frosch123: What about bit 79?
19:29:23 <frosch123> yup, they are all zero
19:29:58 *** Eddi|zuHause has joined #openttd
19:32:05 <George> frosch123: you mean in TTDP?
19:34:12 <DorpsGek> PeterT: fonso was last seen in #openttd 1 year, 3 weeks, 2 days, 9 hours, 46 minutes, and 59 seconds ago: <fonso> ok
19:34:24 <DorpsGek> PeterT: fonsinchen was last seen in #openttd 9 hours, 53 minutes, and 13 seconds ago: <fonsinchen> tss
19:34:56 <frosch123> well, to me it looks like that is the case when appending patchvars at the end, but wiki says "undefined" for certain other patchvars
19:37:18 <George> frosch123: which vars do you suggest to use?
19:37:48 <frosch123> well, varact2vars are more rare
19:37:48 <DorpsGek> PeterT: glx was last seen in #openttd 40 minutes and 57 seconds ago: <glx> why build it ? It's already available
19:38:25 <George> frosch123: which one exactly?
19:38:26 <frosch123> there are 128 patchvars, of which only 20 are used
19:38:34 <pavel1269> for ottd also true, rest is zero
19:39:02 <George> pavel1269: Aha, here you are :)
19:39:32 <pavel1269> so, variable 85, bit 0x79? Will be 1 when any day length patch applied, otherwise 0 ?
19:40:54 <frosch123> maybe you do not need that flag either, and the patchvar is sufficient
19:43:16 <George> I suppose yes, other information, like patch type (an exponential setting, a multiplicator) can be defined in the patchvar
19:43:48 <frosch123> i meant instead of var 26
19:44:21 <George> frosch123: Possible. what would be better?
19:45:16 <frosch123> i guess using the action D patchvar is best, as the value is constant during one game, and there are a lot free patchvars compared to varact2 variables
19:46:20 <George> frosch123: wouldn't a bit be useful to identify a support?
19:48:04 <George> othervise value 0 of patch var would be used as no support flag?
19:50:10 <frosch123> looks like ttdp randomly maps patchsettings to free bits in there
19:50:59 <frosch123> looks like ottd's dynamicengines is used by ttdp's newroutes :p
19:51:18 <Alberth> PeterT: what the "the diagonal level at the corner of the map" ?
19:51:47 <PeterT> Alberth: Read the steps to reproduce, it may make more sense
19:52:01 <PeterT> specifically "Try to use Diagonal Level to go from the corner up"
19:52:11 <Terkhen> sounds like a bug related only to the diagonal level and clear patch
19:52:28 *** Dred_furst has joined #openttd
19:52:31 <frosch123> there is no diagonal level in trunk
19:53:31 <pavel1269> George: should I use, those reserved variables? or that something, frosch said (14)
19:53:45 <pavel1269> PeterT: have you read your disclaimer?
19:54:28 <Alberth> PeterT: it doesn't. The only diagonal stuff I know are the 'lay track diagonally'.
19:54:45 <George> pavel1269: I suppose you should use the best one and remove the reserve on the others as soon the reserve is not needed anymore.
19:55:08 <George> As for me, I can work with any of the vars
19:55:39 <pavel1269> petert: isnt there something about not bugging ottd devs while reporting patch specific bug?
19:55:42 <George> pavel1269: I mean 14 would also fine
19:57:17 <George> pavel1269: BTW it's 14h ;)
20:04:42 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: alberth * r18579 /trunk/src/ (window.cpp window_gui.h): -Codechange: Add orientation to scrollbars.
20:08:51 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: alberth * r18580 /trunk/src/ (21 files in 3 dirs): -Codechange: Use widget information only for setting scrollbar capacity.
20:15:32 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: alberth * r18581 /trunk/src/table/sprites.h: -Change (r18570): Update sprite tables for the window shading sprites too.
20:28:36 <pavel1269> frosch: value is not constant during one game, it can be changed ... does this change anything on use of patch variable 14h ?
20:31:22 <frosch123> var 14 can only be read when loading grfs
20:31:42 <frosch123> i.e. on reapplying newgrfs / loading game / starting game
20:31:51 <frosch123> s/var 14/patchvar 14/
20:32:41 <frosch123> so if you want to support changing it in game, and want newgrfs to deal with that, you have to use varact2 var 26 again :)
20:33:17 <frosch123> but ask george whether he can deal with changing values in game
20:36:03 <pavel1269> that will be best :-)
20:36:52 <pavel1269> but being unable to change it in game is a bit ... flustrating
20:39:43 <Eddi|zuHause> paver is flom japan?
20:42:31 <Eddi|zuHause> one argument against changing daylength ingame was always the possibility for potential cheating when temporarily switching back and forth
20:44:24 <pavel1269> what will you gain? you can use this in single player, but in multyplayer admin will have to change it
20:45:31 <pavel1269> the only way to "cheat" money with my patch is when decreasing payments, and when train arrive, switch back, after payment, switch forth, but its unworth the time
20:46:47 <DorpsGek> PeterT: I have 8 registered users with 17 registered hostmasks; 2 owners and 0 admins.
20:47:19 <Alberth> plz do a private chat with dorpsgek
20:49:26 <pavel1269> petert, are you hyperactive or something?
20:49:59 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: rubidium * r18582 /trunk/src/ (window.cpp window_gui.h): -Codechange: save 8 bytes from the Window class
20:52:27 <Eddi|zuHause> a whole 8 bytes!
20:55:13 <Alberth> for each window on your screen, and don't forget the main screen background !
20:55:31 <frosch123> and statusbar and menubar
21:01:31 <_ln> now watching: photos from Halle
21:04:15 <_ln> 8 bytes less! does it run on Commodore 64 now?
21:14:57 <PeterT> petert, are you hyperactive or something? <-- Yes
21:19:23 *** PhoenixII has joined #openttd
21:20:34 *** Phoenix_the_II has quit IRC
21:23:52 <Zuu> Personally I always add library include directories etc. to the global options of MSVC so that I do not need to tell where on my computer different libraries are located on every single project.
21:25:03 <Zuu> Then you tell the linker specificly for each project which .lib files it should include, but I generally don't see a problem of having all library header files visible to all my projects.
21:25:56 <Zuu> The only thing that would be problematic is if I had two different projects that need to use different versions of the same library. But that situation has not yet happened for me.
21:26:55 <Zuu> With your solution for direct X you will need to set those settings every time you checkout a new copy of OpenTTD. That sounds like waste of time to me.
21:31:49 <Zuu> Also, I move projects between computers which has the libraries located at different locations. With my way of doing it, I do not have to do anything for the project to find its libraries. With your way of doing it I would have to change the project settings every time I move the project between my computers.
21:32:50 <peter1138> hmm, any idea how to do a "partial" alphabetic/numeric sort in C++?
21:33:07 <peter1138> i.e. sort "a_1" "a_2" "a_10" 'correctly'
21:33:12 <peter1138> i can't think of the right word :)
21:33:26 <FauxFaux> You only have to provide a definition of "less".
21:33:33 <_ln> depends what is 'correctly'
21:33:45 <Zuu> Though, you would still have to figure out the way of detemining what is more and what is less.
21:33:55 <peter1138> i have a comparator, just no idea how to actually do the compare, heh
21:33:56 <_ln> i.e. some sort of a numeric sort
21:34:25 <Alberth> generate a Python program to do the sorting :p
21:34:32 <Zuu> Does the string has a standard form?
21:34:51 <FauxFaux> Ignore common prefixes, then try and sort as number, otherwise sort as string?
21:35:48 <Zuu> Maybe still you are able to split the string into alpha parts and number parts?
21:36:07 <FauxFaux> That's a more complex case of my suggestion. :)
21:36:45 <_ln> i guess peter1138 is very capable of writing the implementation for the compare function once he knows what it's supposed to do.
21:36:54 <Zuu> Hmm, yep, indeed you just need to remove the common part at the beginning, and then see if the first character is a number or a alpha I guess.
21:37:36 <Zuu> If it is a number, then read untill the end of the number.
21:38:02 <Zuu> if it is a non-number, then just compare the two chars.
21:38:29 <Zuu> Or rather if at least one of them is a non-number, then too a coparsion of the two chars.
21:38:40 <Eddi|zuHause> do i understand the question correctly, that it is not the comparator function that is searched for, but a sorting algorithm that accepts a comparator as parameter? [e.g. template]
21:39:16 <FauxFaux> The built-in sort accepts a comparator function (object), doesn't it..?
21:39:19 <peter1138> i'm writing the comparator
21:39:57 <peter1138> possibly do a char by char compare, until i hit a number
21:40:00 <Zuu> FauxFaux: Yes, and peter1138 is already writing it and wanted ideas on how to write the code inside the coperator.
21:40:06 <peter1138> possibly inefficient but...
21:40:20 <Eddi|zuHause> anyway, for sorting large numbers of strings, i'd do a bucket sort on the first two characters, and the rest in quicksort
21:40:36 <Zuu> Perhaps do a char by char until there is a difference?
21:41:01 <Zuu> If both chars that differ are 0-9, then you apply the special nuber case?
21:41:03 <PeterT> Personally I always add library include directories etc. to the global options of MSVC so that I do not need to tell where on my computer different libraries are located on every single project. <-- How?
21:41:10 <_ln> so peter1138's question is not actually C++-related, but algorithmic.
21:42:07 <Zuu> PeterT: Tools -> Options ->Projects and solutions -> VC++ Directories (too late)
21:44:01 <Eddi|zuHause> peter1138: how about you make a token parser for [0-9]*?
21:44:32 <peter1138> serves me right for disabling swap earlier...
21:45:15 <Eddi|zuHause> oh i know that problem... the OOM killer makes everything horribly slow, and you can't even login as root to add swap
21:45:36 <peter1138> still, it recovered
21:45:42 <Rubidium> char by char till digit, then atoll?
21:46:37 <Rubidium> although that might be unstable for F01 vs F1
21:46:58 <peter1138> Rubidium, now you've opened a can of worms :s
21:47:31 <Eddi|zuHause> a proper lexical analysis might be cleaner ;)
21:48:01 <Zuu> How is the propper way to compare 01 to 1?
21:48:27 <Eddi|zuHause> i'd say the shorter one
21:48:54 <peter1138> "does size matter?"
21:49:40 <Rubidium> good question, is Aa equal to aa for the sorting?
21:50:40 <Eddi|zuHause> anyway, i'd start with a bucket sort for the first two letters, then possibly sort on common prefix
21:50:59 <Eddi|zuHause> then the buckets should be small enough for "inefficient" tests
21:52:20 <FauxFaux> Common prefix doesn't actually work, as a_1 and a_11 have common prefix.
21:53:04 <Eddi|zuHause> FauxFaux: yes, it isn't a sorting criterium, but if the first two letters of all strings are the same, likely more letters are
21:53:23 <Eddi|zuHause> so you can split up that prefix once, and continue at that point
21:54:08 <Eddi|zuHause> this is under the assumption, that a tokenizer is significantly slower than a simple byte-for-byte compare, which might not be the case at all
21:55:07 <peter1138> performance is not critical
21:55:17 <Eddi|zuHause> where tokens are [0-9]+ or "other"
21:55:39 <peter1138> sorting is quite rare and there isn't a huge amount to sort
21:55:49 <Eddi|zuHause> building an efficient tokenizer has been programmed to death
21:56:05 <Eddi|zuHause> just take lex/yacc
21:56:33 <Eddi|zuHause> and whip your strings through that...
21:56:53 * FauxFaux gets the c++ rages and goes back to Java, screw you all. :p
21:57:18 <Eddi|zuHause> then you can perform "simple" comparisons between tokens
21:58:03 <Eddi|zuHause> because a token is either a number, or a string that contains no numbers
21:58:46 <Eddi|zuHause> so you can do string<->string, number<->number or character<->'0' comparisons
22:02:47 <peter1138> never did understand them :p
22:02:50 <_ln> i smell premature optimization here
22:03:01 <peter1138> char by char works :D
22:03:16 <peter1138> if both chars as numbers, it does a strtol and compares the results
22:03:31 <peter1138> regarding 01 and 1, 1 will come first
22:03:41 <peter1138> cos 01 == 1 so the compare will continue
22:03:45 <peter1138> it will compare 1 with \0
22:04:29 * Prof_Frink compares orudge with \0
22:05:15 <Zuu> You're welcome peter1138 :-)
22:08:38 <peter1138> hmm, i ought to make it case-insensitive too
22:09:55 <peter1138> now i just hope nobody wants it unicode-safe, hehe
22:11:17 <Prof_Frink> Nothing is Born-Acorn-safe. He *is* the better idiot.
22:16:05 <peter1138> Sacro's a paedopest
22:16:10 <Eddi|zuHause> i'm sure plenty of people have been to budapest
22:16:58 <_ln> good to know, i thought it was a city built by robots, never entered by a human being
22:18:15 <Eddi|zuHause> i think i was in budapest twice
22:18:32 <Eddi|zuHause> but only for like half a day
22:20:18 <_ln> there'll be direct budget flights between Turku and Budapest soon, which makes it an interesting destination
22:20:57 <Sacro> also the SAM sim I'm watching videos of is in Hungary
22:25:19 <_ln> also some american companies shoot their public nudity shots in hungary, but i guess that's beside the point.
22:26:02 <Eddi|zuHause> not everywhere is public nudity a crime :p
22:27:20 <Eddi|zuHause> nude beaches were very widespread in eastern europe
22:28:28 <Eddi|zuHause> only american imperialism fought them back :p
22:28:55 * Eddi|zuHause is listening to Hungarian Dance No 5 by Brahms on Buffy unofficial soundtrack [Amarok2]
22:33:07 <_ln> interesting; very familiar song, but i wouldn't have known its name.
22:36:45 <Eddi|zuHause> yeah, was a busy guy :p
22:36:58 <Zuu> At my first day at UBC in Vancouver I though about going to the beach, but I ended up at the local nude beach there. The Wrcek beach. :-)
22:37:49 <Zuu> But that was in Canada, not the states.
22:38:44 <_ln> anyone seen a real-life nude beach with any females under 50?
22:40:29 <Zuu> At that beach it was mostly male nudes.
22:42:33 <planetmaker> [23:38] <_ln> anyone seen a real-life nude beach with any females under 50? <-- sure. Have you ever been to Eastern Germany?
22:43:04 <planetmaker> It gets scary if you run accross your teachers at that beach, though
22:43:04 <_ln> at least twice, but not to a beach.
22:45:07 <planetmaker> will say: quite common there, I think
22:47:43 <_ln> however, i've seen topless ones in their 20's on a non-nude beach over here a few times.
22:48:28 <planetmaker> I just recall that the "city bathing lake" of Jena was always quite nicely populated by all sort of folks
22:48:54 <_ln> i'd like to explore the eastern germany more thoroughly
22:48:59 <planetmaker> and the nude section wasn't men only.
22:49:11 <_ln> ... and i don't mean just the beaches, but in general :)
22:49:32 <planetmaker> :-) Well worth it
22:52:51 <Eddi|zuHause> <planetmaker> [23:38]<_ln>anyone seen a real-life nude beach with any females under 50? <-- sure. Have you ever been to Eastern Germany? <- oh, i have had people tell me that exact same story :p
22:53:25 <Eddi|zuHause> <planetmaker> It gets scary if you run accross your teachers at that beach, though <-- that one i meant
22:54:55 <Eddi|zuHause> in general, nude beach usage has decreased in the last 20 years
22:55:18 <planetmaker> western influence, I guess...
22:55:40 *** Progman has joined #openttd
22:55:52 <Eddi|zuHause> hm.. bad.. now i'm lying between two cats and can't move...
22:56:43 <planetmaker> good night Eddi|zuHause ;-) -or can't you sleep there either?
22:57:00 <Eddi|zuHause> in this position? unlikely :p
22:57:49 <Eddi|zuHause> and i have a very "unrest" sleep, so it might be dangerous for the cats :p
22:58:00 <_ln> quite unmaintained-looking houses in Halle here and there
22:58:36 <Eddi|zuHause> _ln: that's an improvement, because 20 years ago, all of them looked like that
23:00:12 <_ln> are the graffitis from the past or present?
23:00:13 <planetmaker> especially if it comes to Ha-Neu / Hanoy ;-P
23:00:50 <Eddi|zuHause> planetmaker: actually, most houses there are either renewed or vanished
23:00:58 <Eddi|zuHause> _ln: the graffitis are "new"
23:01:03 <planetmaker> he... haven't been there for years, I guess
23:01:22 <planetmaker> like... at least 5...6 years
23:01:39 <Eddi|zuHause> planetmaker: yeah, that was about when the bulldozing started
23:02:14 <Eddi|zuHause> that's what happens if the city population suddenly drops by 30%
23:02:53 <Eddi|zuHause> but i guess that's the same in all of east germany
23:05:02 <planetmaker> Dunno really. I remember a bigger article in Die Zeit, though where Halle's destruction of those buildings the "Rückbau" was the topic. And there it was claimed that Halle was kinda leading in this aspect. But going good paths.
23:05:39 <_ln> even in the US of A they are (planning) to bulldoze cities to make them smaller.
23:06:10 <Eddi|zuHause> _ln: i read that...
23:07:34 <Eddi|zuHause> _ln: the comments to the article were the funniest. they were all like "hey, that's all because of our motherfucking commie president and his healthcare!"
23:08:09 <_ln> ah, healthcare, the evilest plot of all time
23:09:13 *** KritiK_ has joined #openttd
23:10:10 <planetmaker> healthcare... hm... I guess sleep adds to my health. Good night! :-)
23:11:19 <Eddi|zuHause> ln, r yr vwls brkn?
23:12:14 <Eddi|zuHause> because vowels are mostly redundant
23:12:35 <Eddi|zuHause> we had that discussion before ;)
23:13:27 <glx> but I can't read what _ln wrote :)
23:14:39 *** KritiK_ is now known as KritiK
23:16:09 <Eddi|zuHause> because he also left out consonants
23:21:18 <_ln> let's not let that be a conversation killer
23:23:16 <Eddi|zuHause> <SUSEhelp> Weather in Halle, SA is Light snow. Current temperature is -5°C. Forecast is - Sun Mostly Sunny; Mon Mostly Sunny; Tue Chance of Snow; Wed Chance of Snow;
23:23:18 <Eddi|zuHause> <SUSEhelp> Weather in Quebec, QC is Overcast. Current temperature is -9°C. Forecast is - Sun Partly Sunny; Mon Cloudy; Tue Chance of Snow; Wed Cloudy;
23:23:29 <Eddi|zuHause> weird how similar that is :p
23:24:40 <_ln> i'm at hungarian dance #19 now, and wondering why fewer didn't suffice.
23:25:06 <Eddi|zuHause> they're probably starting to sound similar...
23:25:18 <Eddi|zuHause> i haven't heard all of them...
23:25:34 <Eddi|zuHause> only like 5 or 6 [not in order]
23:25:41 <_ln> too bad you don't have Spotify
23:26:07 <Eddi|zuHause> they still bouncing off german bureaucracy?
23:27:28 <Eddi|zuHause> but they're probably sufficient to fill a 2-3 hour evening at that time
23:27:40 <_ln> dunno what's the biggest issue, record labels probably
23:29:25 <Eddi|zuHause> well, i don't know how commercial spotify is, but generally the "GEMA" and "GvL" are responsible for all distribution rights, and i presume they require exorbitant royalties
23:29:33 <Eddi|zuHause> like they tried with youtube...
23:29:48 <Eddi|zuHause> not sure if that dispute is actually settled yet
23:31:25 <_ln> why don't we have ludde here to enlighten us
23:32:06 <Eddi|zuHause> for certain values of "here" ;)
23:32:14 <DorpsGek> Eddi|zuHause: ludde was last seen in #openttd 1 year, 9 weeks, 6 days, 14 hours, 47 minutes, and 6 seconds ago: <ludde> ;)
23:32:51 <_ln> i've been a spotify user since approximately ludde's latest visit
23:37:47 *** Rubix`` has joined #openttd
continue to next day ⏵
