IRC logs for #openttd on OFTC at 2009-11-01
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01:52:11 <Eddi|zuHause> hm, with the .debs, would it make sense to statically link against libicu?
01:54:26 <MyCatVerbs> I would guess not, libicu isn't really huge.
01:55:00 <MyCatVerbs> Juyst put a dependency line in so that apt will install libicu as a dependency, surely?
01:55:39 <Eddi|zuHause> the problem is not installing libicu, the problem is installing _the right version_ of libicu
01:56:32 <Eddi|zuHause> obviously, recent versions of ubuntu and debian don't ship with the version linked to by the compile farm, so people can't install it
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08:48:29 <CIA-4> OpenTTD: frosch * r17930 /trunk/src/vehicle.cpp: -Fix (r17926): Aircraft were not carrying mail anymore, when CB15 was in use.
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10:15:03 <planetmaker> frosch123: I don't quite follow what you changed wrt the plane refits in the last days. What did actually change from a player's POV?
10:15:26 <planetmaker> and good morning everyone :-)
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10:33:32 <SmatZ> Chris Huebsch is such a moron
10:43:48 <DorpsGek> yorick: Commit by hackykid :: r2412 /trunk (4 files) (2005-06-05 20:45:04 UTC)
10:43:49 <DorpsGek> yorick: - Fix: [ 1214948 ] building vehicles without depot crashes game. (Chris Huebsch)
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11:02:50 <frosch123> planetmaker: planes refitted to passengers also transport mail. in ttdp this is bound to cargoslot 0. in ottd it is bound to the cargoclass. i.e. planes refitted to tourists carry mail in ottd, but do not in ttdp. previous to my changes that behaviour was slightly inconsistent in ottd, as lots of places used the old cargoslot 0 rule
11:04:09 <Rubidium> planetmaker: regarding your modified string, where you did _YAPF you ought to do _NTP too
11:04:54 <frosch123> the inconsistency affected the gui sometimes not showing the mail. but also aircraft which would be e.g. only able to carry tourists would not have carried mail as the cargoclass rule was only used when refitting, not when building.
11:05:44 <Rubidium> SmatZ: oh the "I reported this bug before with a modified version, then it got fixed, then in the fixed version I've got exactly the same bug"
11:05:48 <planetmaker> Thanks @ all three of you :-)
11:06:20 <planetmaker> though the description might have suffered from bad translation back into English
11:07:17 <Rubidium> and then he starts flaming us saying he has "20 years experience hunting/fixing bugs", yet he can't figure out that they are distinct bugs, especially because the error message is different
11:07:47 <_ln> why not ban morons from the flyspray
11:07:54 <planetmaker> hm, I wonder how the English strings crept into the German translation...
11:08:25 <Alberth> _ln: how to enforce that?
11:08:30 <Rubidium> that's simple: click copy string in WT2, then go to the next page
11:08:51 <planetmaker> Rubidium: sure, but... :-)
11:09:32 <Alberth> _ln: ie the same kind of problems of banning bad players from a server
11:10:17 <_ln> Alberth: it's easy as long as we assume the moron doesn't re-register with a new account.
11:12:39 <Alberth> _ln: Sure, bad people always play by our rules, why would we consider them bad :p
11:17:35 <_ln> a moron is not necessarily a bad person.
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12:59:29 <Splex> is it possible to play 0.7.3 servers with svn?
13:00:29 <yorick> unless you use the 0.7 branch/tag
13:00:40 <Alberth> all programs must use exactly the same version, so no, unless you want to check out exactly the 0.7.3 revision
13:00:46 <Splex> ok, i want to have the opensfx on 0.7.3 version
13:01:22 <yorick> Alberth: the 0.7 branches are relatively compatible
13:02:03 <Alberth> ok, just being safe :)
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14:29:06 <CIA-4> OpenTTD: alberth * r17931 /trunk/src/misc_gui.cpp: -Codechange: Error message window uses pure nested widgets.
14:29:27 <PeterT> Alberth, is that based on "Odd Message" in the forums?
14:29:52 <Alberth> what Odd Message are you talking about?
14:30:58 <Alberth> yes, it is, as are the past 200 or so commits I did, and so will the future 100-200 or so I will do
14:31:48 <Alberth> basically, the mesg indicates a mismatch between the 'old' widgets, and my 'new' nested widgets.
14:32:14 <Alberth> slowly, the old ones are disappearing, and thus also the message :)
14:37:12 <PeterT> what does T.E stand for?
14:37:38 <PeterT> oh, I can't translate that
14:37:51 <PeterT> can I leave that part blank?
14:39:05 <frosch123> "erőfeszítésre vontató" :p
14:42:20 <PeterT> I don't like online translators
14:42:36 <Alberth> nobody forces you to use them
14:43:14 <Eddi|zuHause> PeterT: i'm sure there are railway dictionaries for your language
14:43:19 <PeterT> I don't know, I don't know how to say Tractive Effort in hungarian
14:43:33 <PeterT> Eddi|zuHause, if only I had access to one
14:44:20 <PeterT> frosch123> how wrong was it? <--- sounds somewhat like it
14:46:44 <PeterT> if you shorten Tractive Effort in English to T.E., should I also shorten efofeszitesre vontato to E.V.?
14:46:57 <frosch123> PeterT: does the finnish translation help you?
14:48:47 <frosch123> STR_PURCHASE_INFO_MAX_TE :{BLACK}Maximális vonóerő: {GOLD}{FORCE} <- btw. it was already translated in some other place
14:59:20 <PeterT> do an update from webtranlators
15:01:35 <Eddi|zuHause> yes, of course they do that on command!
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15:06:05 * frosch123 commands the update to take place on 2145 utc
15:07:40 <Eddi|zuHause> shouldn't it be more like 1945 CE(S)T?
15:08:03 <frosch123> i thought so, but it did not time shifting
15:08:04 <Eddi|zuHause> which makes it 1845 UTC currently?
15:08:24 <yorick> CEST isn't CET currently
15:08:52 <frosch123> it never is, is it?
15:09:25 <Eddi|zuHause> apples are not pears currently
15:09:42 <yorick> frosch123: unless a == b
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15:10:06 <Eddi|zuHause> yorick: no, a === b, which is never the case
15:11:06 <Eddi|zuHause> because === is semantical equivalence of two terms
15:11:32 <Eddi|zuHause> meaning "for all possible values of a and b: a == b"
15:11:43 <frosch123> can't you use a proper symbol for that?
15:12:02 <Eddi|zuHause> it's the symbol Mathematica uses ;)
15:12:27 <frosch123> but it replaces it with something more graphical, doesn't it?
15:12:57 <Eddi|zuHause> i do not have any mathematica installed ;)
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16:07:09 <Splex> is there a way to convert normal signals to path signals via modifier key?
16:07:22 <Splex> like using ctrl key for pre/normal-signals
16:08:10 <frosch123> in the signal gui there is a convert signal button
16:08:32 <frosch123> while it is pressed no new signals are build, but only existing are replaced
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16:10:22 <frosch123> but it cannot be dragged, and well, converting two-way signals to path signals is also not useful :)
16:16:45 <Splex> I tend to like to just select basic signal and then convert it to whatever i want by using modifier key, is there any way to do this for a path signal?
16:16:57 <Splex> kinda annoying to always have to choose the signal on the gui
16:17:28 <Splex> and to switch between one way and 2 way path signal
16:17:44 <Splex> annoying to have to remove the two way path signal in order to replace with one way path signal
16:18:11 <frosch123> yes, you can also build the signal and then cycle signal types by ctrl-clicking on it
16:18:29 <Splex> right, for presignals/basic
16:18:31 <frosch123> in advanced settings you can control whether to cycle though all signal types, or only normal, or only path
16:18:35 <Splex> but it doesn't cycle through the path
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16:36:07 <andythenorth> evening / morning etc
16:38:38 <andythenorth> Pikka: irwe is asking about 'zoning' town buildings for Swedish Houses. I have never done it, but I figure you might have for TAI? Looks like house var 65 and/or 66, with cb 17...?
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16:40:22 <andythenorth> cb 17 is house construction check
16:40:48 <andythenorth> var 65 is distance to nearest house matching a criteria
16:41:33 <Pikka> yeah, I use that for the skyscrapers in TaI, for everything else I just use a maximum number allowed in the town
16:41:57 <Pikka> I originally planned to do industrial/residential zoning by town x/y, but it didn't work out too well
16:43:36 <Pikka> so yeah, aside from the standard TTD zoning, all I do is make it so that skyscrapers can only be built within 2 tiles from existing ones.
16:44:01 <andythenorth> Hmm....I wonder if using var 65 is computationally expensive, and prone to getting in a spin...
16:44:11 <andythenorth> I'm not planning to code this, just helping Irwe...
16:45:35 <Pikka> "AS any search variable, be aware that it is a CPU intensive one" says the wiki
16:45:57 <Pikka> but if it's within cb 17, I wouldn't worry about the expense. if you're using it to pick graphics, on the other hand...
16:46:13 <andythenorth> I guess it would only be when a town tries to build a new building.
16:46:58 <andythenorth> I've never coded houses, I don't know if it's possible to code a loop that is hard for the game to terminate (it is with industry construction).
16:47:53 <Pikka> var 65 isn't going to get into a loop
16:48:17 <Pikka> but if you use a big search radius and it doesn't find anything, it may take a while :)
16:49:13 <andythenorth> The 'build industry but only if conditions x, y, z are met' is why ECS by George is slow when the game initiates a map, right?
16:49:28 <Pikka> the maximum radius of 63 is going to check 16383 tiles...
16:49:35 <andythenorth> Or is it something else? This will affect how FIRS tries to control industry placement...
16:50:24 <Pikka> I only check a radius of 2, 24 tiles, in TaI, and haven't noticed any slowdowns ;)
16:50:42 <Pikka> well, if it's searching for something and doesn't find it quickly, yeah, that'll slow it down.
16:51:21 <Pikka> I don't know what code george uses in ECS
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16:56:14 <frosch123> radius of 2 means 12 tiles, doesn't it?
17:00:52 <Pikka> radius of 2 is 5x5 tiles, minus the one in the middle, afaia. how would you get 12?
17:02:58 <Eddi|zuHause> depends on if you want to check the circle (=border), or all tiles (=area)
17:03:23 <frosch123> it uses manhattan distance, not maximum distance
17:03:29 <Eddi|zuHause> but even then it would be 16 tiles
17:03:50 <frosch123> Eddi|zuHause: in the center is a tile, not a corner
17:04:17 <Pikka> oh, I see what you mean, it only checks tiles out to that manhattan distance
17:04:52 <Eddi|zuHause> frosch123: sorry, the 16 tiles were not meant as a reply to you
17:05:33 <Pikka> so I guess there'll only be 8192 or so in the maximum search, too
17:06:40 <frosch123> hmm, Chebyshev distance, i thought there was a different name
17:07:00 <Rhamphoryncus> do multicar trams load faster if I give them a double station?
17:11:07 <Rhamphoryncus> They don't queue particularly well either
17:11:34 <frosch123> build them parallel :)
17:12:06 <Rhamphoryncus> yeah I guess that's the only way
17:13:59 <Eddi|zuHause> multistop needs some overhaul... but pherhaps that should wait for newgrf airports?
17:14:21 <Rhamphoryncus> ah, doing that and doubling the length does let them get off the main street from both directions
17:20:41 <CIA-4> OpenTTD: alberth * r17932 /trunk/src/misc_gui.cpp: -Fix: Don't let the tooltip go under the status bar.
17:24:27 <Rhamphoryncus> Eddi|zuHause: what does that have to do with airports?
17:25:01 <Eddi|zuHause> Rhamphoryncus: the intention with newgrf airports is to extend the structure to handle seaports and road stations as well
17:25:28 <Eddi|zuHause> Rhamphoryncus: to have bigger and more complex stations
17:25:34 <frosch123> though that won't make it easier :p
17:34:34 <Rhamphoryncus> I'm currently experimenting with cargodist. Really changes the game
17:35:41 <Rhamphoryncus> Previously I'd only put stations in a town to boost ratings, to counter my demolition of the forests
17:38:25 <CIA-4> OpenTTD: alberth * r17933 /trunk/src/misc_gui.cpp: -Codechange: Move position calculation of error message window into the class.
17:45:37 <CIA-4> OpenTTD: translators * r17934 /trunk/src/lang/ (5 files):
17:45:37 <CIA-4> OpenTTD: -Update from WebTranslator v3.0:
17:45:37 <CIA-4> OpenTTD: traditional_chinese - 1 changes by josesun
17:45:37 <CIA-4> OpenTTD: german - 2 changes by planetmaker
17:45:37 <CIA-4> OpenTTD: greek - 125 changes by fumantsu
17:45:38 <CIA-4> OpenTTD: hungarian - 1 changes by Petert
17:45:38 <CIA-4> OpenTTD: spanish - 3 changes by Terkhen
17:45:40 <CIA-4> OpenTTD: alberth * r17935 /trunk/src/misc_gui.cpp: -Fix (r17933): Compensate for being inside a class.
17:46:30 <Alberth> except you guessed 12 minutes early :)
17:47:28 <PeterT> wow, fumantsu is really working
17:49:36 <CIA-4> OpenTTD: smatz * r17936 /trunk/src/screenshot.cpp: -Fix: deadlock when trying to create screenshot with too long name (including path)
17:58:17 * Eddi|zuHause prepares bad joke for Alberth having something to compensate :p
18:00:15 * Alberth makes some tea in the mean time
18:00:40 <Zuu> Tea sounds like a good idea
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18:09:10 <CIA-4> OpenTTD: smatz * r17937 /trunk/src/ (openttd.cpp screenshot.cpp screenshot.h): -Codechange: rename current_screenshot_type to _screenshot_type
18:09:53 * Alberth fills the cup of Zuu too
18:15:47 <CIA-4> OpenTTD: smatz * r17938 /trunk/src/ (console_cmds.cpp screenshot.cpp screenshot.h toolbar_gui.cpp): -Feature: non-automatic screenshot name can be entered in console
18:17:12 <CIA-4> OpenTTD: smatz * r17939 /trunk/src/screenshot.cpp: -Fix (r17938): debug code sneaked in
18:23:20 <Zuu> Oh, 3 more posts and I'm at post 2222 :-)
18:25:49 <Alberth> 1000.1010.1110 doesn't seem such a nice number to me :p
18:26:48 * frosch123 is around line 7480 in this channel
18:27:53 <Alberth> 0001.1101.0011.1000 almost symmetrical
18:28:27 <Zuu> frosch123: Just today or in total?
18:28:29 <DorpsGek> frosch123: 1110100111000
18:29:06 <frosch123> and i am happy that i have the double amount in a certain less-off-topic channel :)
18:29:36 <Alberth> your client does the counting?
18:29:36 <frosch123> Zuu: you have 1329 in my logs
18:29:50 <Zuu> My log file says 51970 lines. But then it includes the join/exit events.
18:30:41 <frosch123> but they are not all by you :)
18:31:36 <Alberth> Zuu is more of a forum writer than a channel writer :)
18:32:26 <Zuu> Hanged out a lot just on the forums before I started to visit IRC.
18:32:55 <Zuu> And then, at least 500 of my forum posts I would guess could be connected to Transport Empire.
18:33:34 <frosch123> do they count negative?
18:33:57 <Zuu> I don't know, but they shouldn't count as OpenTTD posts :-)
18:38:41 <Eddi|zuHause> hm. my grep -c says i have 41569 lines
18:39:21 <Eddi|zuHause> since 23. Jul 2007
18:39:59 <Eddi|zuHause> which appears to be the move to oftc
18:42:11 <Eddi|zuHause> that was on 12. Aug 2006
18:42:38 <Eddi|zuHause> and there are another 13048 lines in that period
18:43:32 <Eddi|zuHause> and another 1323 on freenode, since my move to linux
18:45:56 <Eddi|zuHause> now where could my mirc logs be?
18:48:32 <PeterT> SmatZ: what does r17938 mean?
18:57:12 <MyCatVerbs> PeterT: r17938 looks like a Subversion revision number to me.
18:57:33 <PeterT> I know, but I don't understand the feature
18:57:40 <MyCatVerbs> Ah, just checking.
19:01:51 <Zuu> PeterT: Have you checked the commit message of r17938?
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19:02:30 <DorpsGek> frosch123: Commit by smatz :: r17938 /trunk/src (4 files) (2009-11-01 18:15:35 UTC)
19:02:31 <DorpsGek> frosch123: -Feature: non-automatic screenshot name can be entered in console
19:04:27 <Zuu> It might do "Screenshots of whole map are always drawn without console" among a few other things.
19:05:14 <frosch123> your guesses should include "screenshot name"
19:05:35 <frosch123> it is the subject in a sentence using passive form
19:05:45 <Zuu> Usage changes from "Usage: 'screenshot [big | no_con]'" to "Usage: 'screenshot [big | no_con] [file name]'"
19:06:13 <Zuu> So indeed it adds the ability to specify file names to the screenshot command in the console.
19:11:20 <Alberth> hmm, how to remove all files not under hg version control?
19:12:48 <frosch123> hg st | grep '^?' | sed 's/1?/rm/' > bla.sh + verify + execute
19:16:22 <Alberth> I did hg st -u | cut -b2- | xargs rm but I'd expect hg to be able to do this
19:18:25 <frosch123> you can make addremove and then branch from old version :p
19:18:50 <Eddi|zuHause> Alberth: " purge removes files not tracked by mercurial "
19:19:29 <CIA-4> OpenTTD: alberth * r17940 /trunk/src/misc_gui.cpp: -Codechange: Use real y position of the main toolbar and status bar instead of hardcoded sizes for tooltip and for error message windows.
19:19:29 <frosch123> not present in 1.3.1
19:21:07 <Alberth> I just *knew* it was possible, but hg has too many extensions
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19:21:36 <Eddi|zuHause> i don't know... i just installed it from my os' repository
19:23:46 <Alberth> Eddi|zuHause: if enabled, it is listed under 'enabled extensions:' with 'hg help'
19:24:24 <Eddi|zuHause> "hg help" only shows "list of commands:"
19:24:40 <DorpsGek> Alberth: 100011000010100
19:24:57 <Alberth> nah, non-pretty number
19:25:04 <DorpsGek> frosch123: 220121110
19:25:31 <Eddi|zuHause> @base 13 25 17940
19:31:39 <DorpsGek> frosch123: 11001111100111011001111001
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19:41:34 <DorpsGek> Zuu: Error: Invalid <number> for base 26: WEIRD
19:42:13 <DorpsGek> _ln: 11001111100111011001111001
19:42:30 <DorpsGek> PeterT: Error: '1' is not a valid base.
19:42:35 <Eddi|zuHause> go play with the bot in private!
19:42:40 <PeterT> what are you guys doing?
19:42:51 * _ln was merely correcting Zuu's line
19:43:23 <DorpsGek> Zuu: 110100001110110110110111011010000010
19:44:24 <TrueBrain> lets start banning people for abuse
19:44:28 <TrueBrain> YEAH! LETS DO THAT! :)
19:45:12 <Zuu> Someone seams to be on ban mood :-)
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20:40:48 <CIA-4> OpenTTD: smatz * r17941 /trunk/src/ (console_cmds.cpp screenshot.cpp): -Fix: close BMP file when making screenshot fails
20:50:12 <CIA-4> OpenTTD: alberth * r17942 /trunk/src/widgets/dropdown.cpp: -Documentation: Add a few doxygen comments to the dropdown code.
20:54:33 <CIA-4> OpenTTD: smatz * r17943 /trunk/src/screenshot.cpp: -Change: use 24bpp BMP format instead of 32bpp for screenshots. Saves space and is supported by more image viewers
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21:06:01 <CIA-4> OpenTTD: alberth * r17944 /trunk/src/widgets/dropdown.cpp: -Codechange (r11848): Removed the second counter variable that ran in sync with the first one.
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22:58:59 <_ln> hmm, how do i read the list of processes from /proc?
23:11:31 <_ln> i'm wondering about the * part. i guess i'll just read the /proc directory and check if a subdirectory begins with a number and has e.g. cmdline inside.
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