IRC logs for #openttd on OFTC at 2009-09-13
⏴ go to previous day
00:56:04 *** Coco-Banana-Man has quit IRC
00:58:02 *** DaleStan_ has joined #openttd
00:58:02 *** DaleStan is now known as Guest2275
00:58:03 *** DaleStan_ is now known as DaleStan
01:01:12 *** Audigex has joined #openttd
01:13:37 *** KenjiE20|LT has joined #openttd
04:42:02 *** stuffcorpse has joined #openttd
05:41:52 *** z-MaTRiX has joined #openttd
05:42:03 <Pikka> don't suppose anyone has any ideas on making industry tiles stations, a la oil rigs?
05:43:19 <Pikka> who are you calling ho?
05:45:39 *** stuffcorpse has joined #openttd
05:45:40 <z-MaTRiX> its a santa claus greeting :P
06:01:31 *** Terkhen has joined #openttd
06:13:09 *** Terkhen has joined #openttd
06:24:07 *** Doorslammer has joined #openttd
06:38:25 <Rubidium> Pikka: got a test grf so I can test the 'no house foundation' patch?
06:39:03 <Rubidium> Pikka: depends on the kind of station
06:40:52 <Pikka> rubidium: I found it on the forums. should put it in the wiki really. :)
06:41:13 <Pikka> hang on, I'll just upload
06:44:45 <Pikka> I gotta head out, be back in an hour or two
06:44:56 *** Pikka is now known as Pikkagone
06:47:48 <Pikkagone> oh, that grf uses cb30, btw
06:48:09 <Jonis> Anyone who is about to start a game?
06:48:41 <Rubidium> Pikkagone: as long as it uses that bit to tell whether to check the callback :)
06:51:09 <Pikkagone> 00 80 30 30, Rubidium
07:03:13 *** Grelouk has joined #openttd
07:14:02 <JnZ> Hmm, why did I join the channel 2 times? :S
07:23:02 <Rubidium> 'cause it lost network connection with the server and your client then reconnected
07:23:56 *** Alberth has joined #openttd
07:28:09 *** Aankhen`` has joined #openttd
07:49:09 <CIA-4> OpenTTD: rubidium * r17518 /trunk/src/newgrf_callbacks.h: -Document: some of the callback 'masks'
08:07:44 *** [com]buster has joined #openttd
08:08:13 *** tux_mark_5 has joined #openttd
08:12:25 <CIA-4> OpenTTD: rubidium * r17519 /branches/0.7/ (8 files in 6 dirs): [0.7] -Update: some of the documentation
08:15:26 *** Nickman_87 has joined #openttd
08:16:20 <CIA-4> OpenTTD: rubidium * r17520 /tags/0.7.3-RC1/ (5 files in 3 dirs): -Release: 0.7.3-RC1; happy 100hth day of the year!
08:23:52 *** Nickman_87 is now known as Nickman87
08:27:20 *** Chris_Booth has joined #openttd
08:37:21 <Rubidium> why-o-why gets OpenTTD completely useless on each minor release of OSX?
08:37:45 *** lordaro has joined #openttd
08:38:10 *** lordaro has joined #openttd
08:38:42 <Prof_Frink> The apple reality distortion field interferes with the realism is the game.
08:40:01 <Rubidium> ah well, the 'fix' is easy: don't support 10.6 :)
08:40:51 <Prof_Frink> Nah, that fix'll break as soon as 10.7 comes along.
08:41:10 <Prof_Frink> Don't support OSX.
08:41:28 <Rubidium> 10.3-10.5 PPC and 10.4-10.5 x86 :)
08:42:01 <_ln> Prof_Frink: it's only 04:41 in Québec, you are safe.
08:42:28 <Rubidium> Prof_Frink: that has definitely already crossed my mind *lots* of times
08:44:40 *** Pikkagone is now known as Pikka
08:44:43 <_ln> Rubidium: so, what's stopping you?
08:48:35 <Prof_Frink> Don't worry, I'll distract them with something shiny while you escape.
08:51:27 *** worldemar has joined #openttd
09:06:29 *** [alt]buster has joined #openttd
09:10:40 *** Progman has joined #openttd
09:13:19 *** fonsinchen has joined #openttd
09:22:45 *** frosch123 has joined #openttd
09:28:21 *** oskari89 has joined #openttd
09:32:52 *** Nickman_87 has joined #openttd
09:37:03 <Xaroth> Rubidium: 100hth day of the year :)
09:38:53 <frosch123> is that a hint that you cannot store the day of year in a byte?
09:39:23 <Xaroth> in a single byte? probably not :P
09:40:50 <Rubidium> nah, more to programmers' day
09:41:34 <Rubidium> although if you start counting from 0 you're not 'there' yet
09:48:23 <petern> 100h? isn't that a bit... basic?
09:51:10 <petern> that's odd, ttdpatch's code uses both "h" and "0x"
09:51:31 <petern> (first example of assembly i could think of, heh)
10:09:54 *** Belugas has joined #openttd
10:09:54 *** ChanServ sets mode: +o Belugas
10:41:12 *** Vikthor has joined #openttd
10:52:50 *** Biolunar has joined #openttd
10:58:54 <CIA-4> OpenTTD: rubidium * r17521 /trunk/src/industry_cmd.cpp: -Change: don't assume that there is always 'another' industry tile after two '0x18' industry tiles
11:10:01 *** Doorslammer has joined #openttd
11:27:12 *** Coco-Banana-Man has joined #openttd
11:31:21 *** BaronChaos has joined #openttd
11:41:04 *** Singaporekid has joined #openttd
12:07:26 <Eddi|zuHause> hm... why is this ttartist forum suddenly so spammy?
12:07:39 <Eddi|zuHause> i constantly get mails saying "please come back"
12:22:20 <Eddi|zuHause> yes, but there appears to be an opt out...
12:27:04 <Rubidium> but... the ttartists forum can't have that much content that it's spammy; based on trying to view it as a guest "which gives you limited access to view most discussions and access our other features" where I see 0 forums
12:27:42 <Eddi|zuHause> yeah, but i apparently registered a few years ago...
12:28:21 <Eddi|zuHause> and suddenly i get one message last weekend about my inactivity, and that "the forum improved a lot since my last login"
12:28:26 <Eddi|zuHause> and this weekend i have one again
12:33:05 <Rubidium> "Welcome to FreeForums.org, By signing up and/or accessing our services you are agreeing to be bound by terms of this agreement. Please read this document carefully as it is a legally binding agreement." Now I assume that their HTTP runs as service... sounds a lot like: "by reading these terms of service you are agreeing with the terms"
12:34:02 *** DaleStan_ has joined #openttd
12:34:02 *** DaleStan is now known as Guest2300
12:34:02 *** DaleStan_ is now known as DaleStan
12:34:29 <_ln> Eddi|zuHause: you're back; how did you survive?
12:35:08 *** Nickman_87 has joined #openttd
12:35:50 *** Nickman_87 is now known as Nickman87
12:54:33 *** Coco-Banana-Man has quit IRC
12:56:59 *** Coco-Banana-Man has joined #openttd
13:19:52 *** Grelouk_ has joined #openttd
13:29:21 *** Terkhen has joined #openttd
13:39:01 *** oskari89 has joined #openttd
13:48:03 *** KenjiE20 has joined #openttd
14:01:11 <frosch123> DaleStan: do you agree, that "Callback flags are ignored for additional building tiles." from house action 0 only applies to cb 17 ?
14:15:33 *** Coco-Banana-Man has quit IRC
14:16:30 *** worldemar has joined #openttd
14:18:48 *** Coco-Banana-Man has joined #openttd
14:37:13 *** Audigex has joined #openttd
14:51:04 <CIA-4> OpenTTD: frosch * r17522 /trunk/src/network/network_content_gui.cpp: -Fix: Scroll to selected content after sorting the list and after updating the scrollbar maximum.
14:58:18 *** andythenorth has joined #openttd
14:58:44 <andythenorth> in the palette (windows) are there two water cycles, or one?
14:59:23 <frosch123> the water cycle contains two independent cycles
14:59:48 <frosch123> one for "normal water" and one for the bright sparcs
14:59:59 <andythenorth> frosch123: winner. that makes propellor wash on boats possible without additional animation in nfo
15:00:14 <frosch123> "whitecap" says the dictionary
15:01:23 <frosch123> hehe, i'll wait for the grf then :p
15:14:47 <Audigex> but how would you get rid of the prop wash when it's stopped?
15:15:09 <frosch123> by testing current speed
15:15:24 <frosch123> though it will look weird when turning :p
15:19:13 <Rubidium> well, 4 tile long ships will look weird anyway
15:19:55 <frosch123> true, i forgot the prop wash on land
15:32:46 <frosch123> yeah, putting mail into the prop wash might keep it up with mail in aircraft shadows :p
15:35:47 <Nickman87> I see the QueryStringBaseWindow has been updated to the NestedWidget system ;)
15:36:52 <Alberth> Thank Terkhen for that
15:38:50 <Nickman87> I saw it in the changelog :)
15:42:42 <Nickman87> hmmm, does not compile in VS? :s
15:43:27 *** [alt]buster is now known as [com]buster
15:43:44 <Nickman87> Error 1 error C2535: 'QueryStringBaseWindow::QueryStringBaseWindow(uint16)' : member function already defined or declared d:\openttd-projects\filter signs\svn\src\querystring_gui.h 77
15:43:52 <Nickman87> I get this error 8 times, always same line number
15:45:03 <Nickman87> and indeed, it is defined two times here...
15:45:06 <Rubidium> that's probably due to custom modifications on your side
15:45:41 <Nickman87> yeah, forgot that I had changed it few weeks back...
15:46:04 <Nickman87> funny to see that I made the exact same change :D
16:00:47 *** Dreamxtreme has joined #openttd
16:01:21 *** Illegal_Alien has joined #openttd
16:04:01 *** Dreamxtreme has joined #openttd
16:10:27 *** [com]buster is now known as Combuster
16:34:45 *** HerzogDeXtEr has joined #openttd
16:43:28 <CIA-4> OpenTTD: frosch * r17523 /trunk/src/network/network_content_gui.cpp: -Fix (r17514): InvalidateWindowClasses() only does SetDirty(), which is no longer enough.
16:45:14 *** williham has joined #openttd
16:49:32 *** Azrael- has joined #openttd
17:10:29 *** Cybertinus has joined #openttd
17:16:34 *** bubastis has joined #openttd
17:18:47 <Markk> Anyone who lives in Canada?
17:19:35 <frosch123> no, they are all dead
17:21:31 <Audigex> something about "it's too bloody cold"
17:23:07 <Markk> Audigex: I live in Sweden, we have like, the same climate here
17:23:56 <Audigex> it does get a little chilly, i'll grant
17:24:00 <DaleStan> frosch123: Something /is/ wrong there. 1A/1B/1C all have to be called for all tiles, I'm pretty sure. I'll look harder later today.
17:24:07 <Audigex> although i dont think they actually have all moved south
17:26:57 <frosch123> thanks, DaleStan, i could not find any trace of the northtile-ness in ttdp
17:28:53 *** andythenorth has joined #openttd
17:31:39 *** Chris_Booth is now known as Guest2326
17:31:47 *** Chris_Booth has joined #openttd
17:35:14 <yorick> Do you need to Capitalize each line?
17:37:02 <CIA-4> OpenTTD: rubidium * r17524 /trunk/src/newgrf_config.cpp: -Codechange: use QSortT instead of qsort for sorting NewGRFs
17:37:58 <CIA-4> OpenTTD: frosch * r17525 /trunk/src/ (8 files): -Cleanup: Remove SetWindowDirty(), it is completely covered by other functions already.
17:38:19 <CIA-4> OpenTTD: rubidium * r17526 /trunk/src/ (network/network_gui.cpp strings.cpp strings_func.h): -Codechange: use QSortT instead of qsort for sorting the language list in the network GUI
17:39:01 <CIA-4> OpenTTD: rubidium * r17527 /trunk/src/core/smallmap_type.hpp: -Codechange: use QSortT instead of qsort for sorting smallmaps
17:39:45 <CIA-4> OpenTTD: rubidium * r17528 /trunk/src/ (fios.cpp fios.h misc_gui.cpp): -Codechange: use QSortT instead of qsort for sorting FiosItems
17:42:46 <Jonis> Dunno, started when alot of buddies started with it for some reason and then it's stuck. :S
17:45:28 <CIA-4> OpenTTD: translators * r17529 /trunk/src/lang/ (4 files in 2 dirs):
17:45:28 <CIA-4> OpenTTD: -Update from WebTranslator v3.0:
17:45:28 <CIA-4> OpenTTD: finnish - 81 changes by jpx_
17:45:28 <CIA-4> OpenTTD: greek - 207 changes by fumantsu
17:45:28 <CIA-4> OpenTTD: portuguese - 5 changes by SupSuper
17:45:30 <CIA-4> OpenTTD: vietnamese - 55 changes by nglekhoi
17:47:19 <CIA-4> OpenTTD: rubidium * r17530 /trunk/src/ (6 files in 2 dirs): -Codechange: use QSortT instead of qsort for sorting EngineIDs
17:54:57 *** DaleStan has joined #openttd
17:58:12 <CIA-4> OpenTTD: rubidium * r17531 /trunk/src/ai/api/ai_basestation.hpp: -Fix: wrong @file for ai_basestation.hpp
18:01:03 *** Dred_furst has joined #openttd
18:13:06 *** Nickman_87 has joined #openttd
18:16:31 <_ln> play.com: "The phone number must correspond to the landline at the cardholder address."
18:17:10 <FauxFaux> Good luck with that.
18:17:33 <FauxFaux> Some credit card companies claim to check it, but I've never had a problem (I don't have a landline).
18:17:40 <FauxFaux> I'm not sure what I told play.com my number was.
18:17:55 <Audigex> what if they dont have a landline?
18:18:10 <Audigex> i know plenty of people who have a contract mobile and don't bother with a landline
18:18:19 <Audigex> especially now, in the days of mobile broadband
18:18:43 <FauxFaux> Banks in being 20 years behind shocker.
18:19:32 <FauxFaux> I can't guess my play e-mail address, and I doubt they'd tell me my 'phone number anyway.
18:19:32 * yorick finally got NDS compiler to work, and my microSD adapter is now broken :(
18:20:30 *** Doorslammer has joined #openttd
18:21:54 <Eddi|zuHause> Audigex: especially with the "home"-type tarifs, where you get charged landline prices while you are near your home adress
18:22:18 <_ln> I don't have a landline, and I've had a credit card for years.
18:23:25 <Audigex> i dont have a landline at uni
18:23:29 <Audigex> my net comes through the uni network
18:36:36 *** lordaro has joined #openttd
19:01:16 <DorpsGek> PeterT: yorick was last seen in #openttd 41 minutes and 44 seconds ago: * yorick finally got NDS compiler to work, and my microSD adapter is now broken :(
19:02:38 <Eddi|zuHause> do not wake the beast!!
19:02:57 <Eddi|zuHause> # Wir gehen auf die Löwenjagd
19:03:03 <Eddi|zuHause> # Wir haben keine Angst
19:03:12 <Eddi|zuHause> # Wir haben ein gutes Gewehr dabei
19:03:29 <Eddi|zuHause> # Und ein scharfes Schwert. Hah!
19:03:52 <Prof_Frink> Ich habe mein kopf gegessen.
19:04:08 <Eddi|zuHause> "i ate my head"?
19:06:15 <Eddi|zuHause> "the lionhunt" is an interactive children's song
19:06:26 <Prof_Frink> About the only german phrase I can remember. Apart from replacing "ate" with "forgot".
19:06:56 <Eddi|zuHause> yeah. the joy of mixing up syllables ;)
19:07:19 <Audigex> meine luftkissenfahrtzeug ist voll von aahlen
19:07:25 <Audigex> thats the only german phrase i can remember
19:07:30 <yorick> hast du dein kopf vergessen?
19:07:32 <Audigex> and i think i mis-spelt it atrociously :-)
19:07:38 <Audigex> have you forgotten your head?
19:08:02 <Eddi|zuHause> Audigex: not hopelessly ;)
19:08:35 <Eddi|zuHause> well, "forgetting your head" is an actual german phrase, it has a meaning ;)
19:08:50 <Prof_Frink> Audigex: Is it bad that I can work out what it says, despite not knowing any of the critical words?
19:10:00 <Eddi|zuHause> Prof_Frink: means you are on the f^Hbrink of losing your head :p
19:16:13 <CIA-4> OpenTTD: frosch * r17532 /trunk/src/ (61 files in 4 dirs): -Codechange: Rename several Invalidate functions to SetDirty for more consistency and distinguishability.
19:25:00 *** Dreamxtreme has joined #openttd
19:31:50 <Hexan> is it posseble in openttd to rotate a airport before i build it?
19:35:50 <glx> not yet is the correct answer
19:36:28 <SpComb> vectors and a rotation matrix!
19:36:47 <glx> it's more a need sprites problem ;)
19:41:05 *** Nite_Owl has joined #openttd
19:43:05 <Nite_Owl> Hello yorick and dihedral
19:44:29 <Zuu> or just checking out whats going on?
19:44:53 <dihedral> what do you mean 'coming back'
19:45:13 <Zuu> have not seen you for long time.
19:45:24 * yorick has not been here for a long time :-(
19:45:41 <dihedral> i was on holiday for 3 weeks, had a busy last week, and a full weekend
19:45:48 <Zuu> You might have been logged in and joined on #openttd but remained silent :p
19:46:01 <dihedral> that's the bouncer ^^
19:46:13 <Zuu> Ah, hope your holiday was nice
19:47:06 <dihedral> tiring but very good
19:47:29 <Zuu> My summer was spent in Canada and that was also very nice
19:48:01 *** Polygon has joined #openttd
19:48:50 <Zuu> Was out and hiked a bit in the mountains :-)
19:49:14 <Zuu> Not as home where I today walked 20 km on flat land.
19:49:45 <dihedral> that would not have been a holiday for me :-D
19:50:58 <Zuu> In Canada I did 22 km, but with an evalution gain of 1400 meters also :-p
19:51:29 <Zuu> The end of that hike was a battle between my brain and my legs :p
19:51:50 <dihedral> i was in swizerland last year, and did a nice hike.... starting at 1400, going up to 2700 and back down to 1600
19:52:09 <dihedral> and about 10km distance
19:52:48 <dihedral> let me see if i can find a nice pic for you
19:52:50 <Zuu> My toes would not be happy after going down that distance.
19:52:50 *** Audigex has joined #openttd
19:53:51 <dihedral> that was an awesome day
19:53:57 <dihedral> took us like 11 hours :-D
19:55:44 <Zuu> The good part of my 22-km hike this summer was that we took the gondola down (for free) so we just had to get up the mountain, not down again.
19:57:25 <dihedral> hehe - that's cheeting :-D
20:25:05 <Zuu> dihedral: Thats saving ones knes :-)
20:29:38 <Prof_Frink> Zuu: I once did a circular walk of about 10k. With about 2k climb.
20:31:38 * Prof_Frink wants to go back to the Cuillin.
20:33:38 *** andythenorth has joined #openttd
20:38:53 *** ChanServ sets mode: +v tokai
20:42:17 *** Nickman_87 has joined #openttd
20:46:17 *** Chris_Booth has joined #openttd
20:46:46 *** andythenorth has left #openttd
21:02:17 *** TheMask96 has joined #openttd
21:23:56 <welshdragon> 0.7.2 refuses to work on Mac OSX
21:24:23 <Chrill> Sure you got the Mac version, not the windows version?
21:24:29 <Chrill> also, try the 0.7.3-RC1 if you wanan
21:25:03 <Peter> 0.7.3-RC1! one step closer to 0.8.0!!!
21:25:06 <welshdragon> yeah, i could well have fubar'd the file structure
21:25:24 <Chrill> one day, we'll have 0.9.4
21:25:29 <Chrill> and there'll be such a fight
21:26:04 <welshdragon> i forgot about the security dilog
21:26:11 <Peter> we only go up to x.x.4?
21:26:20 <Chrill> We might have 0.9.8 if you want
21:26:46 <Chrill> the 3rd number is usually a minor edit to the game
21:26:52 <Chrill> bugfixes and minor addons
21:26:59 <Chrill> the 2nd number is for the bigger edits
21:27:03 <Chrill> like, adding PBS signals
21:28:08 <Nite_Owl> and the first number is likely to remain 0 for the foreseeable future
21:28:28 <Rubidium> Chrill: don't forget to ask whether they have a supported version of OSX ;)
21:29:14 <Chrill> welshdragon is a mean hacker
21:29:22 <welshdragon> you don't support the new OS X do you?
21:29:27 <Chrill> and force him to use Windows - the failproof Os
21:30:18 <Audigex> i had a windows build that never crashed once
21:30:28 <Audigex> but thats only because it never booted in the first place
21:30:31 <Rubidium> well, wouldn't call it failproof, but it's "backward compatability" record is better than OSX's
21:31:19 <Chrill> It crashes on a regular basis
21:31:25 <Chrill> my screen goes black at random every now and then
21:31:27 <Audigex> thats one way mac keeps it's "more stable than windows" claim though
21:31:35 <Audigex> don't support any legacy hardware, and there's less to conflict
21:31:48 <Audigex> windows 7 is a nice OS imo
21:31:52 <Audigex> haven't had a problem yet :)
21:32:39 <Rubidium> Audigex: and each OSX release the port is useless and needs *many* patches/changes to get it working for the 'new' version
21:33:34 <Rubidium> vs. the windows 95 build works on Windows Vista
21:33:57 <Rubidium> not as feature rich as the win32 build, but still... it works
21:35:04 <Lakie> If you don't mind, Rubidium, how so? I know MacOS needs some tweaks, but I wouldn't have thought it'd vary hugely from version to version (otherwise you'd have old software failing as people upgrade)?
21:35:21 <welshdragon> yeah, i find that hard to believe
21:35:39 <Rubidium> 1) it doesn't compile on all 10.6 installs
21:36:01 <Rubidium> 2) it is glitchy on 10.6 where is wasn't on 10.5 (wrong colours with 8bpp blitter)
21:36:32 <Rubidium> 3) it gives (sometimes) an error about needing to calibrate the monitor
21:36:52 <Rubidium> that's all 'new in' 10.6
21:37:11 <Rubidium> 10.5 had problems where openttd didn't start on some OSXes
21:37:22 <Rubidium> which later seemed to be related to the video card driver
21:37:29 <Rubidium> whereas it worked flawlessly in 10.4
21:37:35 <welshdragon> sounds like a video card driver issue
21:38:18 <Lakie> You could pin some blame on video drivers, but that does seem to make development for Mac OS ports / applications see like a lot of extra hassle
21:39:34 <welshdragon> quite a few apps that are not working on 10.6 at the moment
21:39:45 <Rubidium> luckily we have no-one who seems to know enough of OSX to get the port fixed
21:39:56 <welshdragon> and that's one reason why i'm not upgrading
21:40:07 <Rubidium> and I had it with 'stab in the black trying to solve a bug'
21:40:23 <Lakie> Lol, that doesn't work very well.
21:40:26 <Audigex> how many downloads does the osx port actually get?
21:40:41 <Rubidium> Lakie: well, lets add 'and has time' to the equation
21:40:51 <Audigex> as compared to the windows and linux versions?
21:41:01 <Lakie> Part of the reason we used to demand that we be able to reproduce bugs before trying to fix them with TTDPatch...
21:41:57 *** Nickman_87 has joined #openttd
21:41:58 <Audigex> [22:39] <Dreamxtreme> isnt openttd Upnp ?
21:42:04 <Lakie> Probably less, but Mac OS is still pretty popular?
21:42:26 <Audigex> yeah, but it would be interesting to see how many it does actually get
21:42:26 <Rubidium> Audigex: 110 average a day for OSX, ~1500 a day for Windows (140 of which 64 bits), ~140 Linux (excluding source downloads)
21:42:40 <Audigex> not low enough to discontinue then :-)
21:43:05 <Rubidium> well, it's already on the path to being discontinued; 10.6 is "officially" not supported
21:43:49 <Audigex> but dev's time would be better spent on working with a less antagonistic os
21:44:07 <Audigex> trying to fix something "stab in the black" as you put it, is far less productive
21:44:25 <welshdragon> I'm saddened to hear that
21:44:30 <Audigex> you'd probably get several times more work done on the windows build
21:44:39 <Lakie> Rubidium: I assume that most of the devs don't use MacOS then, or is it really hard to debug on it (or something)?
21:44:54 <Audigex> none of the devs have macOS, I think
21:44:57 <Rubidium> none of the active devs run OSX
21:45:16 <Rubidium> OSX doesn't run in any sane virtualisation platform
21:45:37 <Audigex> and macs are expensive
21:45:38 <Rubidium> whereas Windows happily runs virtualised
21:45:42 <Lakie> Which means you need a Mac for it and they are expensive.
21:45:56 <Lakie> Really? Vista crashed my virtual box loads of times during install.
21:46:06 <Audigex> windows pc can be built for £100 second hand, enough to run openttd
21:46:08 <welshdragon> Audigex: Snow Leopard is £25
21:46:16 <Rubidium> Lakie: Windows XP is *more* than enough
21:46:23 <welshdragon> and you don't need a Mac
21:46:24 <Lakie> You need the hardware, welshdragon...
21:46:31 <Audigex> when I say mac, I mean the whole thing
21:46:46 <Audigex> i couldnt buy snow leopard and run it on my machine
21:46:48 <welshdragon> there are Hackintoshes
21:46:57 <Lakie> Well, from what I remember you could fudge the BIOS to install it
21:46:59 <Rubidium> at least not legally
21:47:01 <Audigex> which are illegal, and prone to bugs
21:47:10 <Lakie> But then you are debugging on fudges which could lead to more bugs
21:47:13 <Audigex> which introduces another whole area of cocking up
21:47:33 <Audigex> how do you know what's the game, the os and just your graphics driver disagreeing with an os it wasn't made for?
21:47:34 * Lakie ponders about driver support for normal machines, probably not too great.
21:47:36 <Rubidium> and running a *modified* kernel and shit isn't good for debugging stuff
21:48:39 * Rubidium has to confess that osx 10.3.9 runs in pearpc, but pearpc isn't a sane virtualisation environment (way way too slow)
21:49:04 <Audigex> if it turns out that i won the lottery last night
21:49:08 <Lakie> I'm surprised that even some basic support hasn't appeared in virtual box.
21:49:10 <Audigex> i'll buy a handful of mac minis
21:49:59 <welshdragon> Rubidium: so essentially development of stable versions of OpenTTD will stop for OSX?
21:50:13 <welshdragon> (if everybody upgrades to 10.6)
21:53:08 <Rubidium> Audigex: good luck finding someone (still) interested in fixing the port
21:53:33 <Lakie> Heh, you need a Mac user who knows about programming ideally.
21:54:19 * welshdragon now wants to be a programmer :(
21:54:30 <Rubidium> well, and has some hardware to test fixes
21:54:49 <Rubidium> e.g. don't break it for 10.3.9/10.4/10.5
21:54:50 * welshdragon has the hardware, just lacks the OS
21:55:01 <Lakie> Having all the OS' could be a problem though
21:55:36 <Rubidium> which basically requires a PPC mac too
21:55:55 <Lakie> Thats not really going to happen though is it?
21:56:12 <Rubidium> Bjarni sold his PPC mac
21:56:41 <Rubidium> not to mention that Bjarni has no time at all
22:01:00 <Rubidium> and in my time with OpenTTD I've seen only a very small number of people with the adequate skill set
22:01:49 <Rubidium> it even amazes me that Bjarni could pull it off (okay, he sometimes took his time)
22:02:11 <tokai> Got a Mac, but don't know about Mac specific programming at all — nor do I enjoy C++ ;)
22:04:09 <Rubidium> conclusion: lacking the adequate skill set for doing the mac port
22:04:32 <tokai> Rubidium: absolutely :)
22:05:27 <welshdragon> it would probably take me years to be able to get the knowledge needed to develop for openttd :(
22:07:30 <tokai> Back then when it was in C it was very easy; but now with all the C++ you must be really into the code to grasp how it works.
22:08:14 <Rubidium> well, the OSX API already was ObjC, so not much OO was added since we went C++
22:08:22 <Rubidium> and most of the C tricks still work
22:11:54 <tokai> But it's still strange that no Mac OS X programmer is interested. Seems not much retro-gamers on the platform.
22:13:41 <welshdragon> but i don't think the Mac OSX community knows about OSX
22:14:47 <Audigex> mac is a relatively closed system
22:15:21 <Audigex> so i think that, to generalise far too much, an average mac programmer will know less about osx than the average windows programmer does about windows
22:21:24 *** Coco-Banana-Man has quit IRC
22:25:53 *** Chris_Booth has joined #openttd
22:28:21 <Rubidium> Audigex: agreed, though I even think that the average Mac user knows less about programming than the average Windows user
22:29:31 <Audigex> the users could go either way
22:29:39 <Audigex> but i'd suspect your right
22:51:35 *** Dred_furst has joined #openttd
22:54:46 *** Terkhen has joined #openttd
23:17:38 *** fonsinchen has joined #openttd
23:22:33 *** Peter is now known as PeterT
23:23:21 <glx> [23:48:39] Rubidium has to confess that osx 10.3.9 runs in pearpc, but pearpc isn't a sane virtualisation environment (way way too slow) <-- indeed it's faster than 10.4.8 in vmware, but I compiling on 10.3.9 is not possible, and debugging fails in pearpc
23:25:17 <_ln> is pearpc a virtualisation environment at all? ain't it an emulator.
23:26:10 <glx> and it doesn't support debugging stuff used by gdb
23:26:56 <glx> 10.4.8 in vmware is slow for only one reason, lack of video driver for vmware (so no acceleration)
23:27:05 *** fonsinchen1 has joined #openttd
23:27:58 <glx> but drive access are also slow (that's why compiling openttd requires ~45min)
23:30:41 <CIA-4> OpenTTD: smatz * r17533 /trunk/src/driver.h: -Fix: missing 'const'
23:33:20 *** Eddi|zuHause has joined #openttd
23:35:18 <_ln> [01:14] <Audigex> mac is a relatively closed system <-- the kernel is open source, the compiler is open source, a lot of the system is open source.
23:35:43 <glx> have fun with the ObjC(++) parts ;)
23:36:10 <Audigex> but they won't let you do shit with it
23:36:28 <Audigex> although i was honest and said it was a generalisation :p
23:36:35 <Audigex> im not the most mac-aware person on the planet
23:36:54 <Audigex> they wont let me install it, for starters
23:37:02 <Audigex> so by extension, i can't do anything else with it
23:37:26 <glx> the API is documented, but some useful stuff is not in the API (like fonts handling)
23:38:32 <_ln> is there a bug report that lists the things in detail that the mac port is lacking?
23:50:07 <_ln> well, just drop the support.
continue to next day ⏵