IRC logs for #openttd on OFTC at 2009-08-31
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01:19:15 <DaleStan> Rubidium: Can you prod the TTDPatch compile farm, please? It seems to only have generated source archives for r2186, and there are no logs explaining why the binaries aren't present.
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01:44:00 <Dreamxtreme> bought out all 14 AI's
01:44:14 <Dreamxtreme> only took 8 hours
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07:40:44 <Rubidium> DaleStan: explanation would be an upgrade of the compile farm that had an unwanted side effect in the TTDP VM (not loading a module)
07:56:20 <TrueBrain> hmm .. by default linux doesn't seems to read GPT partitions :(
07:59:30 <TrueBrain> GUID Partition Table
08:00:57 <blathijs> Ah, that sounds useful and not necessarily obscure :-)
08:02:48 <TrueBrain> as someone told me: EVEN WINDOWS SUPPORTS IT! :p
08:03:36 <blathijs> Linux probably supports it, but apparently your distro doesn't enable it by default?
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08:05:50 <Rubidium> like... windows XP/Vista support >4 GB of memory in x86, yet don't enable it by default?
08:06:45 <TrueBrain> Rubidium: we established that yesterday
08:24:11 <TrueBrain> well, there you have to start of my typing umount
08:27:54 <planetmaker> umount /dev/irc ? ;-)
08:31:59 <planetmaker> he... you have upx installed for windows and macos on your CF, but not for linux?
08:32:50 <Rubidium> I fucked up a bit when reverting to an older VM image
08:37:14 <Rubidium> I just fracking installed upx :(
08:37:22 <Rubidium> and it fails again on it
08:38:06 <Rubidium> and when I did a test compile it worked just fine with upx (AFAICS)
08:38:35 <Rubidium> tdev: what's the point in that?
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08:38:53 <tdev> playing around with buildbot
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08:41:30 <Rubidium> tdev: then make it *very* clear that it is in no way related to any official openttd business
08:41:51 <Rubidium> I don't like getting complaints about it
08:42:02 <Rubidium> (like we get complaints about other people's custom builds)
08:44:32 <tdev> i was setting up some other buildbots, so i set up one for openttd as well :)
08:44:34 <planetmaker> just add to that line "and not officially connected to OpenTTD.org. So don't complain to the devs, if you have problems with anything displayed here, but contact <name, e-mail> instead"
08:45:20 <Rubidium> nevertheless it's failing :)
08:46:30 <tdev> cppcheck needs long for your massice amount of source files ...
08:46:51 <Rubidium> cppcheck? why's that needed?
08:49:25 <tdev> checking for common coding errors
08:49:36 <tdev> but idk if thats something of quality yet.
08:50:14 <tdev> for example: [src/group_cmd.cpp:96]: (error) Memory leak: g
08:50:59 <Rubidium> tdev: now, please reproduce that with the actual code
08:51:47 <Rubidium> that it's a false positive
08:52:12 <tdev> could be, as i said, idk if its of value
08:52:12 <Rubidium> as probably most (if not all) 'memory leaks' that it reports are
08:52:28 <tdev> the lighttpd group found a memory leak and fixed it with that
08:53:01 <tdev> if you have ideas for better static code analysis tools, just say ;)
08:53:37 <Rubidium> it's just that we're doing some tricks that make most static code analysis pointless
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08:54:35 <Rubidium> like most (if not all) variable not initialized warnings are due to it not figuring out that 'new' does memset(0)
08:55:05 <tdev> yeah, i removed cppcheck...
08:57:27 <tdev> it builds now, and should happily update upon every commit
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09:08:45 <planetmaker> you'll be slower than the commit frequency at times.
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09:16:03 <tdev> planetmaker, im sure it will handle that ;)
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09:31:49 <Rubidium> and regarding to lighttpd: they aren't really bothered about extreme memory usage
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10:33:58 <remaxim> is openttd already playable without the original game?
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10:36:45 <planetmaker> and yes and no ;-)
10:36:58 <planetmaker> (in order of the climates in the main menu)
10:37:30 <planetmaker> e.g. toyland is no fun with OpenGFX right now. If you're into drawing: contributions highly welcome
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10:41:03 <Eddi|zuHause> and no, 0.7 does not yet support sound replacement (you can, however, play without sound with a little workaround)
10:43:22 <Ammler> [12:37] <planetmaker> e.g. toyland is no fun with OpenGFX right now. <-- well, as much fun as with originial is it for sure.
10:43:51 <planetmaker> well... different
10:44:10 <planetmaker> black-box industries are hardly discernible.
10:44:31 <Ammler> original toyland isn't playable at all ;-)
10:44:51 <Ammler> or show me a screenshot thread with toyland...
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11:28:14 <remaxim> oh, I just realized someone answered
11:29:11 <remaxim> I promised to come back when there is some original content (= playable without the original game) and maybe try to create some music
11:29:31 <remaxim> I don't really get if it is that far already
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11:35:24 <Ammler> remaxim: maybe help OpenSFX to finish the first sournd replacement?
11:36:16 <Ammler> I guess, there is no easy support for music replacement, and not sure, if there are serious plans to do so.
11:36:28 <remaxim> Ammler, what is opensfx supposed to be?
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11:37:13 <remaxim> so there is no code for playing sound?
11:37:45 <Ammler> (in trunk (nightlies) at least
11:38:11 <Ammler> I thought, you like to make *music* replacement.
11:38:42 <remaxim> that s what I thought about...
11:39:09 <blathijs> remaxim: There is currently no code to support arbitrary music files, just the ones from the original TTD I think
11:39:34 <blathijs> but if someone would create a cool music set, someone might work on integrating it, of course :-)
11:40:28 <remaxim> ll maybe will have a look at the project in the future again
11:40:37 <Ammler> remaxim: but it would be cool to finish the sounds ;-)
11:41:02 <Ammler> again, sounds != music
11:41:10 <remaxim> don't mistake me for a sound designer, that s something completly different
11:41:32 <Ammler> ok, you see the difference :-)
11:41:45 <remaxim> exactly ... why do you think I would do sounds?
11:42:08 <Ammler> because those are nessecary, music isn't and imo there is also no need.
11:42:21 <Ammler> as you can play music with your usual players.
11:43:19 <remaxim> Ammler, with that attitude you ll scare away many people... I am a musician, I am not interested nor do I have the technical skills to create sounds
11:43:33 <remaxim> that s like saying to a movie maker to draw a picture
11:43:42 <remaxim> just not the same, and very insulting
11:43:46 <Ammler> hehe, don't get me wrong.
11:44:38 <Ammler> what does you stop from making music for ttd now?
11:44:49 <remaxim> especially as in every second OSS project people don't get the difference
11:45:24 <remaxim> Ammler, I don't feel like the project is that far yet... so I don't really have the urge to contribute some music yet
11:45:34 <blathijs> remaxim: From a programmer's perspective, sound and music are both this weird audio thing we don't have any clue about :-p
11:45:41 <Ammler> it plays music since 1995/96
11:46:09 <blathijs> remaxim: That that far in what perspective? Because there is no support for alternative music sets?
11:46:40 <Ammler> my "OpenTTD" has that since start.
11:47:11 <Ammler> it might be very cool to play TTD like music.
11:47:14 <remaxim> blathijs, I am a programmer as well ... I know that, but I feel like it belongs to the necessary soft skills to know the difference and acknowledge it as such one
11:48:10 <Ammler> programmers might be the minority in this channel.
11:48:56 <remaxim> no, actually it's more about people saying "yes and no" on the game being playable alone
11:49:52 <Eddi|zuHause> remaxim: the music driver should be able to play midi files, but don't count me on that
11:52:08 <remaxim> Eddi|zuHause, thanks for letting me know.
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12:06:01 <TrueBrain> what was I doing ..
12:06:06 <TrueBrain> ah yes, getting a working DSDT ..
12:11:02 <blathijs> TrueBrain: Anything in particular you're trying to fix?
12:11:15 <TrueBrain> but iasl doesn't like the DSDT vbox gives
12:11:25 <blathijs> It doesn't? That's stupid...
12:11:27 <TrueBrain> it contains noops in invalid places ... now I wonder if it would be wrong if I just removed those noops ...
12:11:33 <TrueBrain> stupid doesn't start to describe it ;)
12:12:20 <TrueBrain> and DSDT is not the most documented thing of a computer :p
12:15:10 <TrueBrain> I hate it when I installed a new compiler and have to make a small change in my kernel ... a recompile is never funny :(
12:18:24 <Eddi|zuHause> i have never done a kernel compile...
12:18:56 <TrueBrain> 90% of my systems run a custom kernel
12:19:07 <TrueBrain> (including most of the production servers)
12:19:55 <blathijs> Actually, 100% of my linux systems run a custom kernel I think
12:20:07 <TrueBrain> I have a few 'vanilla' debian kernels
12:20:08 <blathijs> Though my FlexVPS kernel isn't compiled by me :-p
12:23:10 <Rubidium> hmm... remaxim already left :( blathijs, technically OpenTTD doesn't care about the music files, so you can easily substitute them with others as long as they are in the same format (some kind of midi)
12:23:29 <blathijs> Rubidium: Don't they need the same filenames then?
12:23:44 <blathijs> (I thought OpenTTD had a hardcoded list of filenames and song titles?)
12:25:33 <Ammler> Rubidium: I would wait until he makes some music for openttd, else you implement music replacement and nbody makes them, like 32bpp sprites.
12:25:47 <Rubidium> but moving those filenames and song titles out of OpenTTD into some 'config' files should not be the big deal; without music there's no need to make it 'configurable'
12:26:23 <Rubidium> but without having it configurable you can make the music files; you'll just get the wrong title and you've got some naming 'issues'
12:26:46 <Rubidium> where 'issue' means that you need to name it like the old music files
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12:29:21 <Rubidium> how useful... 2 tickets for the price of 1 for Legoland Deutschland :(
12:29:30 <Rubidium> on a bottle bought in the NL
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12:49:29 <TrueBrain> whoho, the DSDT is accepted
12:49:39 <TrueBrain> now only I need to find back the HD in the correct way ..
12:49:57 <TrueBrain> it complains about invalid checksum cookie :p
12:50:17 <Rubidium> ooh... misbaksel! :)
12:50:47 <Rubidium> poor cookie not fit for consumption
12:54:42 <TrueBrain> bah bah bah, this is the part I hate about OSX ...
12:55:07 <Belugas> i'm working for the two next days with a guy from toronto
12:58:34 <Rubidium> weren't you like in Toronto about 2 weeks ago?
13:01:08 <TrueBrain> bah bah bah ... so close ... and no idea how to solve this :(
13:01:42 <Belugas> i was, Rubidium, but in vacations ;)
13:01:54 <Belugas> so.. not entirely a business trip!
13:02:18 <Belugas> so... it means i would not be able to be too much of a party animal for the few days
13:14:10 <TrueBrain> so the milion dollar question: why oh why does it not boot :p
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13:17:44 <Rubidium> oh, like weekend millionaires?
13:18:19 <Rubidium> I still have the 3 "whatever they're called in English, but the things to get help", right?
13:19:14 <welshdragon> is there a way to convert all signals on a map?
13:19:46 <TrueBrain> yes: the demolish tool
13:19:51 <TrueBrain> converts them all to plain land
13:20:27 <TrueBrain> then you should be more specific I guess :)
13:21:14 <welshdragon> how do i convert all semaphore signals to colour signals on a train line?
13:21:21 <Rubidium> oh... where's my 18-inch hammer-of-truth?
13:21:39 * welshdragon runs away from Rubidium
13:26:47 <TrueBrain> sigh ... brick wall again
13:30:22 <Eddi|zuHause> <Rubidium> I still have the 3 "whatever they're called in English, but the things to get help", right? <- i think i heard someone call them "life lines"
13:30:30 <Belugas> got your helmet on, TrueBrain?
13:33:16 <Eddi|zuHause> (they're called "Joker" in german, which might be derived from card games)
13:33:46 <Eddi|zuHause> TrueBrain: is it made of tin foil?
13:33:53 <TrueBrain> sadly enough, that too
13:34:11 <TrueBrain> no page tells me what this 'invalid checksum' means and what I can do to fix it ..
13:35:02 <Eddi|zuHause> because no sane osx user ever came across this situation?
13:35:24 <Eddi|zuHause> (not implying that there exists such a person)
13:35:26 <TrueBrain> enough people are trying OSX86 ;)
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13:54:13 <TrueBrain> bah, enough is enough .. stupid OSX :(
13:54:32 <TrueBrain> at least I can run it locally .. but vbox is giving me a hard time on something I don't understand :(
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14:07:56 <Belugas> pffff... that guy is slow... i use to run my certifications at a much higher speed :S
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14:35:30 * Belugas cannot put headphones on
14:35:43 <Belugas> "fun" of working with someone else :S
14:36:48 <Belugas> freaking no-virtual-human-being-interface
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14:50:28 <TrueBrain> k, more then enough OSX for today ....
14:50:55 <glx> you're more patient than me :)
14:56:08 <Belugas> and i know how stuborn glx can be :)
14:56:10 <Sacro> TrueBrain: sounds like you need to sort that too
14:59:42 <TrueBrain> Sacro: OH NO! The most obvious first suggestion any forum/website/person makes regarding this, I haven't tried yet! :)
14:59:52 <TrueBrain> lol, sorry, but if you want to start making suggestions, ask for the problem, and help fixing them :)
15:00:05 <TrueBrain> giving random of-the-stock suggestions won't help me, not even a bit :)
15:01:46 <Sacro> TrueBrain: i've just woken up :P
15:01:52 <Sacro> right, what are you getting?
15:02:24 <TrueBrain> ATA Disk: checksum cookie not valid
15:02:39 <TrueBrain> most likely because vbox fucks something up ... and I can't get it traced :(
15:02:50 <TrueBrain> also the 10.6 installer is broken, it doesn't run all packages under root user
15:03:02 <TrueBrain> and 10.4 installer refuses to start, telling me my system is not compatible
15:03:14 <Sacro> I've never done it under Virtualbox, only KVM
15:03:27 <Sacro> KVM and err... the other one
15:03:44 <Sacro> qemu, but i had to patch quemu first
15:04:55 <Sacro> i'm guessing you are trying an official disc, not a patched one
15:12:51 <TrueBrain> (well, as real as it can get under vbox)
15:13:36 <Sacro> as in mapped to an actual partiton?
15:15:16 <TrueBrain> as in: vbox emulates it anyway
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15:57:44 <Belugas> 45 transactions already
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16:14:07 <Zuu> I checked on vcs.openttd.org but couldn't find anything that seamed to match fixing the issues with the last win32 nightly.
16:14:41 <Zuu> Has the issue with last nightly not being compiled/available for win32 been addressed already?
16:17:02 <Belugas> looking at the commits since compile, i'd say no
16:21:10 <Belugas> mmh.. cannot find the compile logs either
16:23:07 <TrueBrain> Zuu: only start to worry if a compile failed for more than 2 connected days
16:23:22 <Belugas> mbgrgroaaa mumblinggrrrr
16:23:43 <TrueBrain> SILENCE! I KILL YOU!
16:23:56 * TrueBrain loves Jeff Dunham :)
16:26:53 <TrueBrain> Zuu: so in 75 minutes you know if you really have to start to worry :)
16:28:30 <Zuu> Figured that I really didn't need to upgrade in order to check which tags are used by different AIs. Other than I might miss some AIs out that require something newer than r16600.
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16:34:17 <Zuu> Could of course check on my laptop where I have a much more recent nightly.
16:38:40 <glx> Zuu: win32 compiles fine for me, so I just blame CF ;)
16:39:43 <Zuu> Couldn't find any AIs available on r17295 but not on r16600.
16:44:58 <TrueBrain> Zuu: you could have just downloaded any older nightly :p
16:45:50 <Zuu> But then i need to do it manually. If I have spent a huge amount of hours to write OpenTTD Auto Update, then of course I want to use it. :-p
16:46:50 <Rubidium> so that calls for a feature: the latest *available* nightly!
16:47:04 <TrueBrain> Rubidium: we don't supply that info :p
16:47:42 <Zuu> So that would require me to keep a list somewhere of nightlies that have been published as last nightly previously. => more work
16:47:58 <TrueBrain> I think we need a buildbot
16:48:07 <Rubidium> well, doesn't "feature" imply "more work"?
16:48:38 <Rubidium> TrueBrain: that requires running OSX native
16:48:55 <TrueBrain> Zuu: please don't ... HUGE page ...
16:48:59 <TrueBrain> Rubidium: working on it ........
16:50:05 <Zuu> TrueBrain: Don't wory, I am not in the mood for doing it and that would certainly require caching of that page.
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17:34:40 <Belugas> toumtedoum te PAM PAM!
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17:45:42 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: translators * r17332 /trunk/src/lang/ (english_US.txt german.txt italian.txt korean.txt):
17:45:42 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: -Update from WebTranslator v3.0:
17:45:42 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: english_US - 1 changes by agenthh
17:45:42 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: german - 2 changes by Roujin
17:45:42 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: italian - 5 changes by lorenzodv
17:45:44 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: korean - 20 changes by darkhasa
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18:01:48 <Kodak> how do i enable the trams?
18:01:58 <Kodak> they seem to be disabled for my game :\
18:02:24 <Kodak> i can't after a game is started, can i?
18:02:48 <Zuu> It might work to add it afterwards, as it is mostly removing that is dangerous.
18:03:00 <Zuu> But definitely save before you add it.
18:03:24 <Zuu> Also adding grfs that can conflict with other grfs can cause trouble.
18:03:41 <Kodak> k, but i really don't bother with anything else
18:03:49 <Kodak> generic tram set if alright with me
18:04:00 <Zuu> Sure that is a good start.
18:04:26 <Kodak> all the newgrf settings are greyed out though..
18:04:36 <Kodak> do i have to do it from the main menu?
18:04:46 <Zuu> Hmm, not if you want to affect a running game.
18:05:07 <Zuu> Are you on a multiplayer game?
18:06:31 <Zuu> When you got the generic trams grf loaded, then you click on the roads toolbar button and hold the mouse button and find a tram option there.
18:09:33 <Kodak> well it's a loaded multiplayer game, yeah
18:10:00 <Kodak> i just don't get why it wasn't already loaded, the generic tram set
18:10:08 <Kodak> we realised after starting the game
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18:11:48 <Zuu> If you want to have it loaded for new games, then you need to do that in the NewGRFs dialog in the main menu.
18:13:08 <Zuu> That said, I just tried to load a multiplayer game I hosted long time ago with a friend, and the NewGRF settings are not grayed out.
18:13:16 <Zuu> At least not the Add-button.
18:13:38 <Zuu> What OpenTTD version do you use?
18:14:00 <Kodak> i loaded it in the main menu now anyway
18:16:21 <Kodak> hey, i loaded it in single player, and the Add worked
18:16:30 <Kodak> gave me a warning it might crash, but i accepted
18:16:47 <Kodak> saved it, and gonna load in multiplayer now
18:16:51 <Kodak> let's hope it works alright :P
18:22:24 <Kodak> is there a shorcut key to access the road construction menu?
18:22:45 <Kodak> or how about any of the other construction menus?
18:24:41 <Zuu> (when you have opened the road toolbar)
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19:16:33 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: rubidium * r17333 /trunk/src/ (roadveh_cmd.cpp yapf/yapf.h yapf/yapf_road.cpp):
19:16:33 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: -Codechange: make the road pathfinder 'interface' like the one for the rail pathfinder
19:16:33 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: -Fix [FS#3057]: road vehicles forgetting their servicing order when the path takes them away (in bird distance) from their destination first
19:34:26 <planetmaker> hm... where do I find e.g. the code which is executed, if an assert happens on a windows machine, which handles the information gathered and displayed in that case?
19:34:59 <Zuu> You need the pdb file I think
19:35:01 <frosch123> the crashlog thingie?
19:35:13 <planetmaker> yes. The equivalent to what I find in macos.mm
19:35:28 <Zuu> As well as a dumpfile that has been created when OpenTTD crashes.
19:35:50 * Rubidium thinks pm is looking for a filename, right? Tried win32.cpp?
19:36:02 <planetmaker> no, I didn't try :-D
19:36:20 <planetmaker> I was rather (unsuccessfully) grepping for things which came to my mind and might be in there, too
19:37:00 <planetmaker> hm... why is macos stuff in src/os/macosx, but the windows stuff in src ?
19:37:18 <Rubidium> hysterical raisins :)
19:38:01 <planetmaker> Zuu: thanks nevertheless. I should have been more clear
19:41:01 <TrueBrain> planetmaker: and because mac needs so many files :p
19:42:52 <planetmaker> TrueBrain: the win* files are half as many as in src/os/macosx, but in size, they're twice as much code
19:43:47 <planetmaker> pf. and I had to look it up ;-)
19:44:45 <planetmaker> does the windows crash handler actually report the newgrfs used?
19:46:00 <TrueBrain> I believe it does, but that you will need to look up :p :p
19:47:41 <Rubidium> or actually, it dumps the gamelog
19:48:01 <Rubidium> which is slightly more verbose than 'just' the NewGRFs that are used at that moment
19:48:17 <TrueBrain> is it a general function?
19:48:35 <TrueBrain> so why doesn't the OSX version have it? :p
19:48:42 <planetmaker> hm... that then should be used there, too ^^
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19:49:20 <Rubidium> well, at least generic enough
19:49:34 <Rubidium> TrueBrain: primarily because of FS#2782
19:50:04 <TrueBrain> Rubidium: I meant more: he who added it the general function, should have done OSX too :p :p
19:50:23 <Rubidium> TrueBrain: without a way to test it?
19:50:40 <planetmaker> well. It's basically writing a text file.
19:50:58 <planetmaker> Which is more or less OS-independent. Or is my conception of this crash.log wrong?
19:50:58 <Rubidium> yes, which osx isn't doing at the moment
19:51:13 <Rubidium> crash.log is only made for windows
19:51:20 <Rubidium> linux/osx don't do it
19:51:25 <planetmaker> what does lin do in such case?
19:51:41 <TrueBrain> Rubidium: I guess it is time to make all platforms generate such file?
19:53:35 <Rubidium> then you first need a way to reliably capture the crashes
19:54:17 <TrueBrain> why? If it can generate it in 20% of the cases, it is more than in 0% ;)
19:54:24 <planetmaker> the gamelog is started anyway, is it?
19:54:35 <TrueBrain> either way, isn't signal() not reliable enough?
19:54:41 <planetmaker> it's just not written, right?
19:54:49 <Rubidium> TrueBrain: nope, it crashes on (some) OSXes
19:54:59 <TrueBrain> ah, that problem :) But that was fixed, not?
19:55:05 <Rubidium> no, it was hacked around
19:55:44 * Rubidium wonders how signal and gdb work together
20:01:42 <planetmaker> sigXXX crashes some OSX? interesting...
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20:09:40 <TrueBrain> Rubidium: so you say we first need to fix this rare case and exception, before we can make a system that generates crash.log for all systems?
20:09:43 <TrueBrain> sounds a bit .. unreasonable
20:10:40 <Rubidium> no, just don't expect me to make it for morhpos or os/2 or get it tested on OSX
20:11:01 <TrueBrain> Rubidium: I never did ;) I just asked if it wasn't time to do so :)
20:11:05 <TrueBrain> I never asked you to do anything ;)
20:11:38 <Rubidium> in that case: it's always time for someone to code some improvement :)
20:12:48 <TrueBrain> so you agree it would be an improvment .. wasn't that what I was asking? :)
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20:14:33 <Rubidium> TrueBrain: not really; I interpreted as someone saying, 'TrueBrain, isn't it time to do the groceries?'
20:15:07 <TrueBrain> haha, fair point :) Was not intended at all, as in fact I was kind of suggesting I took on that task .. or maybe planetmaker :p
20:15:13 <Rubidium> i.e. go do the groceries you lazy guy
20:16:02 <TrueBrain> either way, strange defense: no, I don't do the groceries, as there might be a roadwork between here and the grociers , in a street I rarely take anyway :p
20:18:46 <planetmaker> he... honestly, I think a complete cross-platform unification / partly re-write of how crashes are handled might be still a bit over my head
20:19:04 <TrueBrain> planetmaker: 'complete' might be too much :)
20:19:17 <TrueBrain> just the fact to generate a crash.log and put similar info in it, might be enough :)
20:19:26 <TrueBrain> but okay .. I hope to help you soon on a few OSX issues :)
20:19:41 <TrueBrain> if I ever get this darn vbox to work, or get my video-driver to work
20:19:47 <TrueBrain> (as I am NOT going to develop in 1024x768
20:20:59 <Rubidium> or whatever OSX uses for that
20:21:38 <TrueBrain> not possible to your local machine :p :p
20:21:43 <Rubidium> :O he can 'understand' Japanese :)
20:21:58 <TrueBrain> I can try to boot 2 OSes next to eachother, but I doubt he accepts that :p
20:22:08 <Rubidium> what? Parallels doesn't work?
20:22:18 <TrueBrain> not without VT-X :p
20:22:38 <planetmaker> parallels does work... in some environments :-)
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20:34:16 <planetmaker> ok. In principle it's no problem to get the gamelog there, too. That works
20:34:24 <planetmaker> Now I just need to get it written.
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20:51:31 <glx> hmm but he uses a real HD it seems
20:52:15 <glx> though I'm not registered so I can't download the pdf
21:02:35 <glx> TrueBrain: won't work for me
21:02:42 <glx> "as the CPU MUST also support VT-x extensions, and have a system BIOS that enables VT-x"
21:02:51 <TrueBrain> was worth a shot .. won't work here either
21:02:56 <TrueBrain> time to find my bed :)
21:03:05 <Noldo> what are you trying to do?
21:03:23 <TrueBrain> getting OSX back under the 'supported' section
21:03:45 <TrueBrain> although planetmaker is doing an good job so far :)
21:03:51 <Noldo> and you need virtualized OSX to do it?
21:03:59 <TrueBrain> or you want to buy us the hardware?
21:04:08 <glx> but not having VT-x (or AMD-V) is a problem for virtual machines only it seems
21:04:18 <planetmaker> g'night TrueBrain
21:04:20 <TrueBrain> glx: native you don't need VT-x for sure
21:04:26 <TrueBrain> I can run OSX without VT-x :)
21:04:34 <TrueBrain> you need voodoo-kernel if you have AMD
21:04:40 <TrueBrain> (I can run vanilla kernels)
21:04:44 <glx> I can boot the installer on my machine :)
21:04:53 <nicfer> I think that the local authority should be reworked
21:04:56 <TrueBrain> and most of those installers have enough AMD hacks :)
21:05:04 <glx> but it just fails in vmware
21:05:20 <TrueBrain> glx: but without virtualization it is a bitch to boot to OSX and work there
21:05:25 <TrueBrain> out of your comfort-zone ;)
21:06:04 <glx> but that's because missing vmware vesa 2 drivers for tiger
21:06:07 <TrueBrain> you need speed to .. 45min per compile it not anywhere near a working env :)
21:06:22 <TrueBrain> but okay, classes in the morning, good night :)
21:06:32 <glx> same happens in linux or windows VM without vmware tools installed
21:06:50 <glx> as soon they are installed speed increase
21:07:04 <nicfer> instead of disallowing you to build stations, how about making everything you build near there more expensive?
21:07:20 <glx> but vmware tools for OSX requires at least leopard
21:07:30 <nicfer> lesser income for cargo moved from/to there?
21:07:53 <Nite_Owl> two words: magic bulldozer
21:08:07 <Rubidium> 256 MB of memory for your graphical card, is that a lot?
21:08:08 <nicfer> expensiver running costs
21:08:13 <Rubidium> for a dedicated server?
21:08:19 <nicfer> two words: no cheating
21:08:33 <Rubidium> (which has no video output)
21:08:36 <Xaroth> standard-ish nowadays with the new line graphic chips
21:08:51 <Nite_Owl> two more words: no fun
21:10:52 <blathijs> Rubidium: Neh, it just allows you to run a second OS entirely in the graphics card...
21:12:26 <nicfer> well, actually its no fun when the LA rejects you to build stations but still lets you fullfill everything around the city with land-owning signs or railtracks?
21:12:53 <nicfer> or even worse, landfill everything you can
21:12:58 <Nite_Owl> two further words: plant trees
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21:15:48 *** [com]buster is now known as Combuster
21:20:30 <planetmaker> Windows, though, uses a range of custom, more high-level commands.
21:20:48 <planetmaker> Would it be wrong to resort to this low-level c syntax for any OS for the crash.log?
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22:13:53 <PeterT> does openttd have support for windows 7?
22:15:42 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: yexo * r17334 /trunk/src/airport_movement.h: -Fix: don't turn north just before approaching the landing strip of the small airport
22:17:37 <PeterT> windows 7 isnt released yet, silly
22:18:27 <Yexo> PeterT: so how should we know whether it works?
22:18:29 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: rubidium * r17335 /trunk/src/yapf/yapf_road.cpp: -Fix (r17333): don't return a pointer as boolean
22:18:50 <PeterT> someone with time and a computer could dl win7
22:22:11 <TinoDidriksen> Win7 is in RC, freely available though they now removed the downloads. I have it installed on my laptop.
22:22:28 <PeterT> did you test openttd with it?
22:22:36 <TinoDidriksen> No, but can do...
22:23:00 <PeterT> and make sure its a latest trunk
22:23:02 <TinoDidriksen> Sure, just a few minutes.
22:23:11 <SmatZ> a lot of "it doesn't work!" bugreports are coming :-/
22:23:19 <PeterT> well, i meant, whenever you have time
22:23:29 <PeterT> but SmatZ!! it doesnt work!
22:24:41 <PeterT> developers, how often do you look at bugs.openttd.org and openttd problems forum?
22:25:49 <Eddi|zuHause> the more often people ask, the less often they look
22:26:04 <SmatZ> bugs should go to bugs.openttd.org anyway
22:26:18 <PeterT> actual problems to openttd problems?
22:27:19 <PeterT> recently, hyronumos (if thats how you spell it) locked a topic in openttd graphics, how did he do this without being an openttd developer?
22:27:43 <PeterT> but it said moderators for openttd are the developers
22:27:46 <Yexo> because he is a global forum moderator
22:28:10 <Yexo> and not all developers are moderators
22:28:33 <Yexo> only those with an orange name
22:28:56 <TinoDidriksen> Downloaded r17332, installed, loaded a game...seems to work fine in Win7 RC 64bit.
22:29:26 <PeterT> is that the latest trunk?
22:29:39 <TinoDidriksen> Was the latest nightly on the site...
22:29:51 <Yexo> latest trunk is r17335 (as of 11 minutes ago)
22:30:14 <TinoDidriksen> So reasonably up to date...
22:30:54 <PeterT> i recently understood what "r" was
22:31:09 <PeterT> not the number of days since the initial release
22:31:20 <PeterT> it was the amount of changes done in a day
22:31:29 <PeterT> i was wondering because you skipped numbers
22:32:12 <KenjiE20> lol, I'd love to see 17000 changes per day
22:32:21 <PeterT> so, why is only bjarni, truebrai_n, matthijs, celestar_, petern_, and rubidi_um moderators
22:33:44 <Xaroth> because they are also developers?
22:34:47 <Yexo> PeterT: because they are also developers, and because orudge doesn't want to have too much moderators (a very valid point if you ask me)
22:35:03 <Rubidium> ofcourse it works in win7; it's not like apple where they remove a load of API each release and don't maintain APIs through more than 2 releases
22:35:53 <PeterT> Yexo: then you have the same priviledges as the troll who spams the forums, what good is that?
22:35:57 <TinoDidriksen> Actually, Win7 breaks quite a lot according to the interwebs...hence why they felt a need for XP Mode.
22:36:21 <Yexo> PeterT: and the same privileges as you have, I don't see a problem?
22:36:34 <Yexo> if I see spam / unwanted post I use the report function like every member can
22:36:47 <PeterT> and moderators actually look at it?
22:37:19 <Yexo> although I never get response the spam has always been removed
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22:37:39 <Yexo> besides, it's not like the openttd forum needs more moderators
22:38:49 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: rubidium * r17336 /trunk/ (31 files in 10 dirs): -Codechange: move some os specific files into src/os/
22:39:31 <TinoDidriksen> It informs of new revision commits.
22:40:02 <TinoDidriksen> Very useful so people know to svn up their own working copies.
22:40:19 <Yexo> and it's easy to follow what is changing
22:40:30 <PeterT> isnt there an ottd channel devoted to that?
22:41:02 <PeterT> so basically, you download the source, change it however, then upload it again
22:41:13 <TinoDidriksen> Not everyone can commit...
22:41:30 <Yexo> PeterT: that's basically the process, but not everyone can upload their code
22:41:41 <Yexo> and we use svn to track all changes
22:42:57 <PeterT> what does it take for a patch to get into trunk?
22:43:10 <TinoDidriksen> That it works and is approved by the developers.
22:43:26 <Yexo> the patch having a clear goal (ie bug fix / 1 feature), and what TinoDidriksen said
22:43:54 <PeterT> so why isnt amazing patches like server list filtering included?
22:44:13 <Yexo> because they are not approved yet by a developer ;)
22:44:35 <PeterT> i think its handy, dont you?
22:44:43 <TinoDidriksen> It could be they disrupt too much of the code base to make their thing work...
22:44:45 <Yexo> no idea, haven't looked at that patch recently
22:45:05 <Yexo> PeterT: "approve" != the idea is nice
22:45:23 <PeterT> TinoDidriksen, it works on 0.7.2?
22:45:30 <Yexo> it also means checking the code, seeing of it complies to coding style and if there are no obvious bugs
22:45:52 <Terkhen> I remember that one of the devs posted some issues with that patch, issues that weren't solved
22:45:54 <PeterT> is cargodest coming soon?
22:46:04 <Yexo> cargodest is very outdated by now
22:46:11 <Xaroth> I doubt cargod*st is going in trunk any time soon
22:46:43 <PeterT> cargodist, cargodest, i dont care which, just want one of them
22:46:55 <Xaroth> compile it yourself :)
22:47:18 <PeterT> i cant compile cargodist and IS
22:47:27 *** AC6000__ has joined #openttd
22:47:33 <Xaroth> IS should have precompiled binaries anyhow
22:47:36 <PeterT> without compile fails, then crashes
22:47:42 *** AC6000__ is now known as AC6000
22:47:45 <PeterT> Xaroth, you dont get it, do you?
22:47:45 <Yexo> cargodist still crashes regurarly (according to reports in it's forum thread)
22:47:46 <Rubidium> talking about copy&paste?
22:47:56 <Rubidium> or is my guess wrong?
22:48:09 <PeterT> copy and paste should NEVER be in trunk!!!
22:48:11 <Terkhen> server list filtering, cargodist and IS
22:48:41 * Rubidium likes to guess what the topic is when lots of lines aren't displayed
22:48:46 <Xaroth> so basically you want cargodist in trunk, so you can have somebody else make sure cargodist + IS works?
22:49:16 <Terkhen> okay, next time I'll only answer with yes or no :P
22:49:20 <PeterT> cargod*st in trunk, then i can patch with IS2.0-b3
22:49:27 <PeterT> and create the ultimate patchpack
22:49:41 <Xaroth> you want cargod*st in trunk, so you can have somebody else make sure cargod*st + IS works..
22:49:54 <Xaroth> since else they wouldn't release a patch...
22:50:57 <Yexo> PeterT: I can't even find a server list filtering patch (although I know it exists)
22:51:31 <PeterT> actually, its number 2
22:52:19 <fjb> If all the patches beside one are in trunk that one patch will really be a big patch pack.
22:53:40 <Rubidium> really? It'd probably be ln's "don't allow openttd to be started as root"-patch
22:54:16 <Rubidium> which basically adds like 1 line
22:54:20 * AC6000 wonders if making $30,000,000 a year is too much....
22:54:34 <PeterT> sheesh, i just marked openttd forums as read, and within 2 minutes there are already 4 posts
22:54:39 <Rubidium> depends on the kind of $
22:55:00 <Xaroth> I usually don't stop till i reach the 100m/year
22:55:40 <AC6000> another 400 million and i'll have 1 billion
22:56:03 <Rubidium> if it's real USD it's quite a lot (for a single person), if it's in-game then probably not
22:56:30 *** Phoenix_the_II has quit IRC
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22:56:44 <AC6000> trust me, id blow it all in a month :P
22:57:32 *** Combuster has joined #openttd
22:57:47 <Rubidium> don't think I would; blowing it in 1 month and then 11 months getting (next to) nothing vs getting 2.5 million a month
22:58:36 <TinoDidriksen> I wouldn't know what to spend it all on in a single month...
22:59:26 *** reldred has joined #openttd
22:59:34 * AC6000 is using 8 planes, 10 trains and 21 buses
22:59:49 <AC6000> the buses are a transfer service :P
23:01:27 <AC6000> 10 million for train income
23:01:36 <AC6000> double that for planes
23:02:41 <PeterT> congratulations, stop bragging
23:02:50 <Xaroth> I hardly call that bragging.
23:03:20 <AC6000> did i forget to mention i'm only using 2 airports? ^^
23:04:37 <Xaroth> game where i tried out various AI.. last year's income, 240,456,032 euro
23:04:52 <Xaroth> 1036 trains, 1319 rv, 523 airplanes
23:05:45 <Xaroth> save game was a bit awkward tho, 7 AI's all steamrolling.. game is unplayable :P
23:06:22 <AC6000> it would have crapped itself trying to load it :P
23:22:40 <Eddi|zuHause> ... there is nothing to see here, move along ...
23:28:35 <KingJ> Sorry, i've got to agree, that is pretty boring
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23:39:24 <Coco-Banana-Man> Such a big station for 10 trains..? :O
23:40:33 <SmatZ> each train has its own platform ;)
23:41:05 <PeterT> AC6000, are you still running a server
23:41:25 <KingJ> [00:20] * AC6000 (~AC6000@72.186.103.51) has left #openttd
23:42:00 <Coco-Banana-Man> well, some trains even more than one xD
23:42:29 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: yexo * r17337 /trunk/src/airport_movement.h: -Fix: some more strange airport holding bay positions
23:43:18 <Eddi|zuHause> Yexo: is really onto these darn airports :p
23:43:53 <Yexo> I have a (very basic, with lots of bugs) newgrf airport working
23:44:05 <Yexo> where the statemachine is completely done by newgrf callbacks
23:44:15 <Eddi|zuHause> "für die einen ist es ein Regexp, für die anderen der längste Smilie der Welt"
23:45:28 <Eddi|zuHause> (derivate of a commercial spot)
23:48:18 <fjb> Will the grf have to supply complete airports or do you parts from which you build your own layout like train stations?
23:50:15 <DorpsGek> SmatZ: celestar was last seen in #openttd 18 weeks, 5 days, 15 hours, 51 minutes, and 39 seconds ago: <Celestar> morning
23:50:37 <DorpsGek> PeterT: PeterT was last seen in #openttd 9 seconds ago: <PeterT> thats a while ago
23:51:00 <DorpsGek> SmatZ: tron was last seen in #openttd 1 year, 29 weeks, 0 days, 10 hours, 27 minutes, and 33 seconds ago: <Tron> gcc 2.95 is plain obsolete (even has several bugs in its C++ part). further at the very least the justifications given are extremely oversimplified.
23:51:17 <DorpsGek> SmatZ: I have not seen vurlix.
23:51:21 <DorpsGek> SmatZ: ludde was last seen in #openttd 46 weeks, 1 day, 15 hours, 6 minutes, and 13 seconds ago: <ludde> ;)
23:51:56 <PeterT> if we didnt have ludde, we wouldnt have utorrent
continue to next day ⏵
