IRC logs for #openttd on OFTC at 2009-08-27
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00:54:06 <JFBelugas> you call it NOISE???
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01:03:59 <Belugas> what are you STILL doing up??
01:04:03 <petern> i can listen to you on my phone
01:04:27 <petern> there's a live stream' heh
01:05:05 <petern> no, just tried it, alas its silent
01:05:22 <Belugas> well... give me a sec, i'll go down
01:05:36 <Belugas> if.. you can stay awaken ;)
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01:11:35 <JFBelugas> it does? ;d better play good then ;)
01:15:22 <glx> stop typing on the notebook :)
01:15:50 <glx> it's keyboard doesn't like you
01:18:49 <JFBelugas> i tried to make youn sleep, i faild ;)
01:34:04 <JFBelugas> time for me too... hit the bed
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02:26:48 <PeterT> Belugas, as I have recently discovered, there is a Hide Join/Part Messages
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12:38:25 <planetmaker> Belugas, I recently checked your music folder. I found a nice addition :-)
12:38:44 <planetmaker> 13th August or so. Nice one
12:39:27 <Belugas> we did had a jam session yesterday. was good fun. still need to extract what can be extracted
12:39:29 <planetmaker> yeah, I think so. Chill-out music. But I was tired and it fit my mood when I listened
12:39:59 <Belugas> on peter's behalf and mine, we thank you
12:42:08 <Belugas> mmh... my boss thinks about sending me to work on site, in the US, for a week
12:43:44 <planetmaker> he... is that good or bad?
12:45:30 <Belugas> been separated from wife and kid for a whole week...
12:45:52 <Belugas> been separated from my guitars for a whole week...
12:46:08 <Belugas> having to work on a computer for a whole week, even in hotle room...
12:46:30 <Belugas> having to eat food (that's food???) that you have no idea who and how it was cooked...
12:46:42 <Belugas> sleep on a stranger's bed
12:46:53 <Belugas> ho.. there is suppsoed to be a pool in the hotel!
12:47:25 <Belugas> i guess he wold not really appreciate me carying my guit and recorder over there...
12:48:28 <Rubidium> Belugas: isn't there like a NIN museum in Cleveland?
12:49:51 <Belugas> planetmaker, because he knows i can't resist plaing when there is a guit lying around...
12:49:53 <Rubidium> I just 'know' (read: found out) that NIN originated in Cleveland
12:53:16 <Rubidium> though if there's an exposition about them I reckon it'd be in the cleveland museum of art
12:58:47 <Belugas> a sub section in some dark corner of the basement would be appropriate then
12:59:17 <Belugas> with sticky humidity and some human rotting remains or something
12:59:42 <Rubidium> I haven't found any proof of a NIN museum though
13:02:13 <Belugas> thanks for checking :)
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13:31:38 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: smatz * r17292 /trunk/ (9 files in 4 dirs): -Codechange: use unified ToPercent() function to convert fract numbers to percents
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13:47:15 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: smatz * r17293 /trunk/ (6 files in 2 dirs):
13:47:16 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: -Fix [NoAI]: AITown::GetLastMonthTransported didn't work as documented at all, make it return what AITown::GetLastMonthProduction did
13:47:16 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: -Change [NoAI]: mark AITown::GetMaxProduction as deprecated, AITown::GetLastMonthProduction returns now the value GetMaxProduction did
13:50:18 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: smatz * r17294 /trunk/src/ai/api/ (7 files): -Add [NoAI]: AITown::GetLastMonthTransportedPercentage and AIIndustry::GetLastMonthTransportedPercentage
13:51:20 <petern> that i'm on holiday next week
13:51:38 <Noldo> does that mean more coding or less coding?
13:52:31 <petern> as it was directed at belugas...
13:54:17 <Belugas> hoo... mmhh... good :D
13:55:00 <Belugas> got to make some cleanup on my hd, will need place ;)
13:57:11 <Belugas> funny.. i was thinking about that monday: "i have not seen peter going on vacation"
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16:56:09 <tdev> i rather mean: do you use buildbot
16:57:53 <Rubidium> why would we use that?
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17:04:31 <tdev> Rubidium, thats one of the questions i would have asked ;)
17:05:18 <planetmaker> he... a re-compile on every commit would keep the server busy
17:05:44 <planetmaker> given the 35 minutes compile time for the CF
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17:06:58 <DorpsGek> Rubidium: 39.4833333333
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17:09:05 <Rubidium> hmm, buildmaster won't even work nicely for OpenTTD's compile run
17:09:35 <Rubidium> it'd make the website incredibly slow during the first ~20 minutes of the compile
17:10:01 <Rubidium> because it assumes all build slaves are different machines
17:10:09 <Rubidium> which isn't quite the case
17:11:53 <Rubidium> the compile farm run could be made ~1 minute faster by shuffling the order at which stuff gets scheduled, but that's quite a lot of work for no real benefit
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17:16:22 <kadmoz> question: is there no "unified maglev" in openttd?
17:16:42 <glx> all railtypes are available
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17:21:22 <Rubidium> though I think putting him on your car is stupid
17:30:52 <Chris_Booth> what noise does a cow make when it is hit by a high speed train?
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17:45:20 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: translators * r17295 /trunk/src/lang/lithuanian.txt:
17:45:20 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: -Update from WebTranslator v3.0:
17:45:20 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: lithuanian - 6 changes by mtxd
17:49:49 <OwenS> "X is now known as X - Whos idea was it to take a 'short' 22 mile walk! Oww." lol
17:55:18 <Eddi|zuHause> exactly what i was thinking.
17:55:47 <Eddi|zuHause> plus trying to calculate in my head what 42km is in miles...
17:56:47 <nicfer> one question, would be possible to make a 0.7 version of opensfx?
17:57:08 <nicfer> I've tried renaming opensfx.cat to sample.cat but nothing
17:57:17 <Eddi|zuHause> 0.7 does not have support for loading that kind of sounds
17:57:46 <nicfer> renaming doesn't work?
17:58:06 <planetmaker> different file formats
17:58:28 <nicfer> then you should had changed the extension
17:58:47 <Eddi|zuHause> "i tried renaming my 720p.x264.mkv files into .vob, but my dvdplayer won't play them!"
17:59:01 <nicfer> for preventing those kinds of troubles
17:59:40 <nicfer> why does mp3 files have a different extension than ogg ones?
18:00:04 <Timitry> For preventing those kind of troubles, there probably is a note around "Only for r1xxxx and upwards, not for the 0.7 stable releases"
18:00:10 <planetmaker> why are all kind of versions of word and even plain text files called *.doc?
18:00:18 <Eddi|zuHause> why should they? everything would be much easier if they were called .music and .video
18:01:27 <Timitry> Good point, i think you don't even need file endings on linux-based os, do you?
18:01:41 <Eddi|zuHause> the file extension is of next to zero relevance for the decoder
18:01:51 <Timitry> At least that's what i read somewhere someday... But i'm just a Win User ;)
18:01:52 <Eddi|zuHause> all file information is usually in the header of the file
18:02:04 <planetmaker> Timitry, I don't need them, yes
18:02:17 <petern> Timitry, allegedly. everyone keeps them, because it's convenient
18:02:28 <Yexo> Timitry: you don't _need_ them on windows either, it just makes life a lot easier
18:03:08 <Timitry> Gonna watch "Once Upon A Time in Mexico" Now :)
18:03:28 <Eddi|zuHause> the file extensions help stupid file pickers to sort and filter them, but all sane programs use the header information
18:05:08 <Eddi|zuHause> lots of programs just use zip as their "file format", and just give them another extension...
18:05:33 <Eddi|zuHause> (at least Open Office 1 did this, i don't know if they changed that)
18:05:51 <petern> well, peeking the file works individually
18:06:06 <petern> but it's a bit slow when scanning directories or complete file systems
18:06:12 <blathijs> Files should just all have a content-type and content-encoding attribute, instead of trying to encode that crap into the filename...
18:14:26 <blathijs> petern: No, which is a shame...
18:19:02 <Belugas> that was a very clever nick change :)
18:20:38 <blathijs> It probably made sense in another channel :-)
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18:50:57 <OwenS> orudge: Any chance of blocking ads from evonyonline.com on tt-forums.net?
18:51:45 <PeterT> shouldnt you ask that on #tycoon?
18:52:29 <Xaroth> lol, that looks like travian, only worse
18:52:29 <OwenS> PeterT: Perhaps, but that would involve joining another channel
18:52:51 <OwenS> Xaroth: I guess you haven't seen their borderline pornographic adverts then? :P
18:53:22 <orudge> OwenS: any particular reason?
18:53:31 <orudge> what do they look like, etc?
18:53:35 <OwenS> 3Deb83d8712b07084c54c5bb77f786d977&dt=1251398939121&correlator=1251398939123&frm=0&ga_vid=1566316184.1251398939&ga_sid=1251398939&ga_hid=1652318224&ga_fc=0&u_tz=60&u_his=2&u_java=0&u_h=1024&u_w=2304&u_ah=1024&u_aw=2304&u_cd=24&u_nplug=4&u_nmime=242&biw=1241&bih=861&fu=0&ifi=1&dtd=9
18:53:45 <blathijs> OwenS: Yeah, I've still not figured out if they're really a fantasy MMORPG or a dating service :-)
18:53:53 <orudge> is that the one with the breasts?
18:54:07 <orudge> I've seen those all over the Internet recently
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18:54:50 <[wito]> apparently it's an MMORPG
18:55:00 <[wito]> that has *nothing* to do with bodacious babes.
18:55:02 <orudge> not sure if I can block them as such... I think I can block particular keywords
18:55:03 <Sacro> it's a copyright violation waiting to be sued
18:55:08 <orudge> maybe people are actually clicking on them ;)
18:55:22 <OwenS> orudge: Apparently with AdSense you can block ads for particular sites?
18:55:23 <Xaroth> OwenS: I have, I find them amusing
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18:55:45 <[wito]> also, at the rate they are evolving, they'll be actual naked ladies by the end of october
18:56:13 <tdev> i also added blocked sites to our adsense list
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18:57:46 <Sacro> it's ripped its graphics from Age of Kings
18:58:02 <orudge> that is quite ridiculous
18:58:10 <Sacro> orudge: stop fapping then :P
18:58:32 <orudge> I want to play AoE now
18:58:51 <Sacro> look at what you could actually win!
18:59:14 <Sacro> admittidly the first one is actually rather nice, it gets worse though
19:00:04 <OwenS> "Evony, thanks for showing us what it means to take advertising on the internet to the absolute rock bottom ... then dig a sub-basement under that, and keep on digging until you reach the white-hot molten core of the Earth."
19:01:50 <OwenS> Sacro: That relly that much more NSFW than their actual adverts?
19:02:42 <blathijs> Hmm, I hadn't seem them past take 5 :-)
19:03:00 <Sacro> I only know them through reddit
19:03:06 <Sacro> adblock hides everything like that
19:03:33 * Sacro considers playing Evony
19:04:11 <OwenS> Sacro: According to review... Evony is a game for those willing to toss large quantities of cash in the direction of the same people who create that mountain of "WoW Gold" spam :p
19:07:16 <Eddi|zuHause> i have no clue wtf you people are talking about...
19:08:45 <Sacro> Why not just get over it and post a naked lady
19:09:14 <OwenS> And this advertising for what's essentially an RTS...
19:09:36 <Alberth> OwenS: I'd never guess that :)
19:09:50 <Rubidium> rail transportation system?
19:09:58 <Rubidium> or road transportation system?
19:10:17 <planetmaker> real time strategy
19:10:34 <Alberth> planetmaker: that would be off-topic :p
19:11:16 <Belugas> English question : is it "The Discount Request >>have<< been submitted to HO" OR "The Discount Request >>has<< been submitted to HO"
19:11:35 <Sacro> George's LV4 set isn't much better
19:11:51 <Sacro> requests have, reqest has
19:12:00 <Rubidium> unless you forgot the s after requests
19:12:45 <Alberth> but then "The" looks a bit weird
19:13:47 <Rubidium> The cars have been stolen / The car has been stolen
19:13:59 <Rubidium> / Cars have been stolen
19:14:24 <Alberth> I'd use the last one, but with "The" is not impossible, I agree
19:14:59 <OwenS> Depends on if your refering to a specific group of discount requests or not
19:20:05 <Belugas> one request only, for one discount
19:20:14 <Belugas> that was alot of arguing :)
19:21:39 <Alberth> But in the end we agreed :)
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19:40:04 <Xaroth> weapon grade plutonium?
19:40:59 <planetmaker> sometimes similarity search is just a fail
19:42:12 <Rubidium> isn't dry ice and (liquid) nitrogen often used by physisists?
19:42:57 <planetmaker> but c4 explosive and weapon-grade Pu rarely :-)
19:43:27 <planetmaker> and I still wonder what dry ice rays might be.
19:44:13 <planetmaker> lN2 isn't far from here, just 5 doors or so.
19:44:31 <Rubidium> still at work? poor you!
19:44:54 <planetmaker> yes, I should go home
19:45:25 <Rubidium> or hasn't paintball stopped yet and the only 'safe place' is the 'work place'?
19:45:58 <planetmaker> got quite humid under the mask... kind decreasing visibility ;-)
19:46:37 <andythenorth> Jquery for the win.
19:46:45 <andythenorth> But time to stop work now
19:47:00 <andythenorth> I'm sitting in a nearly-empty flat. Moving house.
19:47:10 <andythenorth> With a big truck
19:48:03 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: rubidium * r17296 /trunk/src/engine.cpp: -Fix/feature [FS#3152]: allow rail wagons to be build when only el rail engines are available
19:54:08 <Eddi|zuHause> which set has only electric engines?
19:54:34 <planetmaker> 2cctrainset has/had (accidentially) as first an e-rail engine. and I wondered.
19:54:47 <planetmaker> so... $CRAPPY_SET :-P
20:01:37 <planetmaker> and I didn't know I was kinda asking for a new feature there :-)
20:02:15 * frosch123 asks for the feature to open the cheat menu via ctrl-alt-delete
20:03:07 <Rubidium> what? you haven't realised that with MSVC you can attach to the process and cheat without the application figuring out?
20:05:40 * frosch123 likes discussion between > 4 noobs, when noone else joins
20:06:14 <Rubidium> oh, talking about thedailywtf German edition?
20:06:49 <frosch123> btw. dbsetxl 0.9 has higher priority than newstations 2
20:07:39 <Rubidium> vapourware vs vapourware, that's like comparing infinity to infinity ;)
20:08:11 <Eddi|zuHause> i was tempted to reply to that "will there be a newstations release" with "are you aware who you are asking?" :p
20:08:16 <glx> <@Rubidium> what? you haven't realised that with MSVC you can attach to the process and cheat without the application figuring out? <-- true and it works very well :)
20:08:30 <Rubidium> question is: will it be released before duke nukem forever?
20:09:09 <Eddi|zuHause> i thought DNF is officially cancelled?
20:09:26 <Terkhen> it was resurrected again
20:09:35 <planetmaker> I recall that, too. But forever is forever ;-)
20:10:09 <PeterT> Yexo, what happens when I try to apply freeform map edges to trunk?
20:10:12 <Rubidium> *or* are dbsetxl 0.9 and newstations going to be released once TTDP 2.5 is done?
20:10:25 <planetmaker> PeterT, you'll get zillions of rejects
20:10:32 <Yexo> PeterT: that patch is already _in_ trunk, why would you try to apply it?
20:10:42 <PeterT> thats the whole point of me asking.
20:10:57 <PeterT> why rejects pm? if its changing the same code?
20:10:57 <Yexo> then see planetmakers reply
20:11:03 <planetmaker> Rubidium, aren't they already at 2.6alpha?
20:11:21 <glx> PeterT: because it will not find the old code to apply the new one
20:11:24 <Yexo> PeterT: because most likely the code isn't exactly the same anymore as at the time that patch was written
20:11:32 <frosch123> don't know, maybe cb149 is 2.6
20:11:41 <planetmaker> and applying a patch twice never works well.
20:11:55 <glx> especially on new files :)
20:12:05 <Rubidium> planetmaker: alpha is no more than nightlies
20:12:06 <PeterT> btw, Yexo, thanks for keeping a great changelog and version numbers on Freeform map edges patch
20:12:32 <Yexo> PeterT: I have no idea why that is of you with use, but np :)
20:12:52 <planetmaker> Rubidium, well... are there actually ever updates to beta? I honestly don't keep track of TTDP versions.
20:12:52 <PeterT> Oh, you will see very soon Yexo
20:13:01 <Xaroth> PeterT is known for his completely out-of-the-blue random remarks :P
20:13:02 <Rubidium> planetmaker: there are
20:13:15 <DaleStan> There are commits, but patchman hasn't released a new beta.
20:13:26 <planetmaker> DaleStan, can't you do so?
20:13:34 <OwenS> DaleStan: Has Patchman returned from his dissappearence yet?
20:13:53 <DaleStan> I don't have access tp ttdpatch.net, and I'm not sure I would even if I did.
20:13:54 <planetmaker> you and Lackie and JGR seem the only contributors...
20:14:01 <DaleStan> He materializes occasionally.
20:14:23 <Eddi|zuHause> what actually prevents the current "beta" from being declared "stable"?
20:14:30 <planetmaker> what does relate website access to software release?
20:14:33 <OwenS> I noticed his profile said he logged into the forums relatively recently... but last post was ages ago
20:14:35 <Rubidium> it's like our release branches, but never ever having done the actual release, just think of e.g. the 0.7 branch where the releases/rcs are betas and no release has been made
20:15:07 <Rubidium> Eddi|zuHause: 3 years of bugfixes?
20:15:56 <Eddi|zuHause> it always makes me sad when people come to the (german) forum, and they installed "stable" TTDP, because everything else is virtually impossible for a newbie to find
20:16:16 <planetmaker> yup, that's sad then indeed
20:16:37 <Eddi|zuHause> exactly, and that is 5 years old
20:16:59 <planetmaker> many people only download stables.
20:17:03 <glx> but even 2.5beta9 is highly outdated
20:17:05 <Rubidium> Eddi|zuHause: going strong for 6 :(
20:17:28 <Eddi|zuHause> and 2.0rev1 is what you get offered when going to ttdpatch.net
20:17:46 <Rubidium> yeah, nastily with "Apr 19 2007
20:18:05 <OwenS> So in other words TTDP is in a nasty state of affairs for newbies :p
20:18:34 <Eddi|zuHause> and of course you get flamed by forum-oldies, when you redirect them to the "better" openttd
20:19:36 <Rubidium> ofcourse, OpenTTD isn't a better TTDP
20:19:43 <Rubidium> (nor is TTDP a better OpenTTD)
20:20:04 <OwenS> OpenTTD is better than TTDP stable though :p
20:20:25 <Belugas> not better. different
20:20:31 <Rubidium> that depends on your viewpoint
20:21:19 <Rubidium> e.g. TTDP's bug compatability with TTD is way better than OpenTTD's, which is important for those that just want to play TTD on WinNT-ish platforms
20:21:50 <petern> redirect all requests for THE SUPERIOR OLD AI!!!!!! back to ttdpatch :D
20:22:08 <OwenS> And I thought bug compatibility was a term only thrown arround w.r.t. Windows and WINE :P
20:22:28 <Rubidium> OwenS: no, also w.r.t. Windows and DOS
20:22:38 <DaleStan> <petern> redirect all requests for THE SUPERIOR OLD AI!!!!!! back to ttdpatch :D <-- Can do.
20:22:50 <OwenS> Rubidium: I meant Windows and WINE as separate (though related) examples :p
20:22:52 <Rubidium> if you believe "program /h" is a bug
20:23:08 <Rubidium> 'cause the first DOS didn't have directories
20:23:21 <Rubidium> and since then they use \ for directories
20:23:26 *** ChanServ sets mode: +v tokai
20:24:02 <Rubidium> or the special VM mode in (at least) win9x for Sim City
20:24:28 <OwenS> I believe in the WinNT series it patches the game executable
20:24:43 <planetmaker> hm... indeed _where_ are the nightlies, if I start on ttdpatch.net ?
20:24:59 <frosch123> planetmaker: source code
20:25:07 <Rubidium> click on 'beta testing' in the news
20:25:31 <Rubidium> then there's a terminology and there's the link to nightly.ttdpatch.net
20:25:31 <planetmaker> :-) both works. Thanks
20:26:33 <planetmaker> he... TB and Mihamax provide nightlies.ttdpatch.net?
20:26:44 <Rubidium> planetmaker: not 100% true anymore
20:26:52 <Rubidium> it's OpenTTD's compile farm that does
20:27:05 <Rubidium> and the binaries are hosted on OpenTTD's server
20:27:07 <DaleStan> Nope. That site is NXDOMAIN.
20:27:24 * DaleStan is being useless again.
20:28:01 <Rubidium> or actually pm asking the wrong question :)
20:28:51 <Rubidium> anyhow, nightly.ttdpatch.net just a front end that purely links to binaries.ttdpatch.net
20:29:06 <Rubidium> binaries.ttdpatch.net. 14245 IN CNAME binaries.openttd.org.
20:29:23 <planetmaker> quite nicely interweaved, eh?
20:29:44 <OwenS> IN CNAME web.openttd.org. aka redundant CNAMEs :p
20:29:52 <PeterT> did you look at your newest patch thread?
20:30:21 <Rubidium> who cares? it seems to work for everyone
20:30:46 <Rubidium> it amazes me that ttdpatch.net is accessible over IPv6
20:31:06 <OwenS> Rubidium: I would say "Really nightlies.ttdpatch.net should be in CNAME web.openttd.org" but I doubt you have access to their DNS :p
20:31:39 <planetmaker> DaleStan, but what does keep you (or any other active dev) to actually declare a version stable or beta?
20:32:10 <Terkhen> I'll answer at the thread after I finish coding :)
20:32:23 <planetmaker> then it'd be a simple asking to update the front web page instead of doing something himself for Patchman
20:32:44 <Rubidium> OwenS: the current situation allows us to move the binaries stuff and not our website without having to wait for patchman
20:33:19 <OwenS> Rubidium: Yes but you're relying on client implementation details. Whether that matters or not in practice is a different matter :p
20:33:34 <Rubidium> or implement mirror rotation
20:35:07 <DaleStan> planetmaker: Mainly, I don't want to.
20:35:07 <DaleStan> ... ... I guess I feel like it'd be tantamount to declaring that TTDPatch is mine now, and not Patchman's, and I'm not that bold.
20:35:44 <planetmaker> DaleStan, it would only be the step to accept the truth :-)
20:37:00 <Rubidium> technically the release manager doesn't need to be the supreme ruler of the project
20:37:10 <DaleStan> Also, I feel like the 2.6 bugfixes all need to be checked and possibly backported 2.5 before declaring a stable or beta, and I haven't mustered up the energy for that.
20:38:15 <Rubidium> yeah, I can imagine checking 3 years worth of commits is an awful lot of (boring) work
20:38:25 <planetmaker> he... that indeed.
20:38:48 <planetmaker> but maybe differently. Let 2.5 be what it is... an open end.
20:39:01 <planetmaker> But start with 2.6 stable and call nightlies 2.7 from now / then on.
20:39:05 <Rubidium> it's kinda why I'm now doing it weekly an keep a list of what's new for 0.8 and what is for 0.8
20:40:26 <planetmaker> after all, trunk has to be branched for a new stable release anyway.
20:40:43 <planetmaker> Maybe that branch could be made before the experimental cargo dest stuff got in... but
20:40:53 <Rubidium> though, it's debatable whether /trunk is releasable due to a number of unfinished projects IIRC
20:40:55 <planetmaker> you know better how stable that is / will be.
20:41:21 <planetmaker> well. Then one could branch and pull out the worst again ;-)
20:41:35 <planetmaker> in that stable branch
20:41:42 <planetmaker> probably. I wasn't around then.
20:41:44 <Rubidium> (in OpenTTD before 0.4.5)
20:42:50 <planetmaker> Let me guess: since then you're more cautious about integration into trunk ;-)
20:42:55 <Eddi|zuHause> which projects are currently unfinished? the scalable-gui-revamp?
20:43:25 <Rubidium> that's the primary unfinished project in OTTD's trunk
20:43:25 <Eddi|zuHause> planetmaker: yeah, that was about the time when development of experimental features was pushed into branches
20:43:27 <planetmaker> Eddi|zuHause, I was talking TTDP then.
20:43:40 <planetmaker> yes, I believe so :-)
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20:46:41 <Rubidium> although there are some other unfinished cleanup/rewrites too, but those are in a state where the code is perfectly releaseable (small steps really help)
20:47:24 <planetmaker> But the windows re-write will have to be finished before 0.8?
20:47:50 <Rubidium> not fully, but it should be in a releaseable state
20:49:13 <Rubidium> although having it fully finished is preferred
20:49:27 <asilv> Do I understand the code in function UpdateTownRadius(in town_cmd.cpp) correctly? Large towns don't have zone 2 at all?
20:49:34 <Rubidium> as massive less code changes => simpler backports
20:51:21 <Rubidium> asilv: yes, that's right
20:51:57 <DaleStan> Officially, the barrier between 2.5 and 2.6 is that the 2.5's lang/ directory is frozen.
20:52:14 <asilv> hmm, I guess I and Irwe have to change our design bit
20:52:15 <DaleStan> ... Except that 2.5 still has untranslated strings, so I'm not sure how frozen it actually is.
20:53:06 <planetmaker> asilv, still not fond of the idea of a public repository?
20:53:28 <Rubidium> planetmaker: don't push people, that only annoys them!
20:53:59 <asilv> planetmaker: I don't see much benefit, I will release the source when the set is released though
20:54:11 <petern> my hg repos appear to have disappeared :)
20:54:19 <Eddi|zuHause> what's "er" for a command? :p
20:54:23 <Rubidium> petern: is that the new way to write luser/loser?
20:56:34 <planetmaker> asilv, more eyes to spot problems and errors is the benefit.
20:57:27 <planetmaker> and the possibilities for others to learn
20:58:33 * petern wonders how to publish hg stuff now
20:59:37 <Rubidium> ask Yexo? Don't remember anything about changes
20:59:51 <petern> well since the unified user system i suspect
20:59:54 <Yexo> nothing did change the last weeks, at least I didn't notice any change
21:00:00 <Yexo> petern: your hg repos are still available here:
21:00:14 <petern> they magically appeared
21:00:47 <petern> unfortunately i can't modify them
21:01:09 <Yexo> can you still ssh to the server?
21:01:40 <Rubidium> the rights seem to be the same as Yexo's
21:01:49 <Yexo> default-push = ssh://yexo@secure.openttd.org//var/repos/hg/developers/yexo/airports/ <- that is what I use in .hg/hgrc
21:01:58 <petern> ls: cannot open directory /var/repos: Permission denied
21:03:27 <Rubidium> Yexo: can you ls in that directory?
21:03:29 <Yexo> petern: for some reason you're not in the vcs group while I am
21:04:02 <Belugas> and me, i'm not in the work group anymore!
21:04:08 <Rubidium> odd, cause your groups and petern's groups are the same except for Translators-Dutch
21:04:16 <Belugas> let's login to the commuters group
21:04:51 <Rubidium> petern: please relogin and try again
21:06:12 <Yexo> <@Rubidium> odd, cause your groups and petern's groups are the same except for Translators-Dutch <- how do you request that info? id doesn't list 1003(vcs) for peter1138
21:06:26 <Rubidium> I did groups <username>
21:06:58 <Yexo> now that group is listed
21:10:04 <Eddi|zuHause> K2 is a mountain
21:10:27 <Xaroth> yeh but K3 is missing 1
21:10:55 <petern> yikes, rhythmbox is using 100% cpu :s
21:12:34 <petern> keep your nasty kde away from me
21:13:00 <OwenS> petern: Well it never hogs my CPU :p
21:14:09 <asilv> planetmaker: I don't like releasing unfinished stuff, anyway the first public realease is going to be soon, and like I said I will release the code too
21:14:15 <asilv> but thank for the offer
21:15:05 <Eddi|zuHause> hm, no, that doesn't seem like the right one...
21:15:05 <petern> it's sample rate converter sucked
21:15:32 <OwenS> =/ I've never had that with Amarok 2 + Phonon + GStreamer...
21:15:41 <OwenS> Admittedly all my audio is 44.1kHz...
21:15:41 <planetmaker> hm... imo it's got nothing to do with "releasing unfinished". But your choice
21:15:46 <Rubidium> Eddi|zuHause: so from who did they steal that song?
21:15:57 <petern> it's fine at 44.1, 48 or 96
21:16:02 <Eddi|zuHause> if i had a decent internet connection, i could check out youtube links before posting them...
21:16:33 * OwenS wonders how it would deal with 2822.4
21:16:39 <Eddi|zuHause> petern: well, it is "optimised" for the "common" values :p
21:16:52 <OwenS> 88.2 is reasonably common :p
21:17:18 <petern> yup, it's just 44.1 * 2
21:17:28 * Prof_Frink throws Ks at petern
21:17:52 <petern> i haven't calibrated my setup to the K-system yet
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21:47:17 <andythenorth> nfo...how do I use string code 01 to provide an x offset?
21:47:30 <andythenorth> -1 * 1 04 02 7F 01 D3 "01 32 Coaster (Large)" 00
21:47:35 <andythenorth> doesn't do what I expect
21:48:04 <andythenorth> -1 * 1 04 02 7F 01 D3 01 32 "Coaster (Large)" 00
21:48:14 <andythenorth> misread the docs :{
21:48:19 <DaleStan> Or "\01\32Coaster (Large)"
21:48:27 <Eddi|zuHause> didn't we want to abolish x offsets?
21:51:28 <DaleStan> Note that, for example, although "\1\32Coaster" works, "\1\FCoaster" is unlikely to be what you want. That latter encodes as 01 FC 'o' 'a' ...
21:51:41 <andythenorth> Eddi|zuHause: I find the offsets to be crazy talk. But I need to sort my ships out...
21:51:56 <andythenorth> DaleStan: thanks
21:52:55 <Rubidium> can't you use callback/action2 "I don't know exactly which one, but the one used to get different graphics for the 2cc trains in the build menu"
21:53:15 <Eddi|zuHause> i only took a short glimpse of the ships. my first impression is that they are probably too long
21:53:17 <Rubidium> to make the ships smaller?
21:53:40 <Rubidium> Eddi|zuHause: like LV, but for ships, right?
21:54:47 <Eddi|zuHause> making them longer than 2 tiles is asking for trouble...
21:59:39 <andythenorth> Eddi|zuHause: making them shorter than 2 tiles causes player...requests :P
21:59:46 <andythenorth> but yes the ships have some issues
21:59:52 <andythenorth> with bridges, landscape etc
21:59:57 <andythenorth> I'm living with it
22:00:03 <Rubidium> making them longer causes bug reports
22:01:48 <andythenorth> ach well...with the coop make system it's easy to knock out the longest one
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22:16:02 <Audigex> if i modify the program, but don't distribute it, I don't have to hand out the source code do I?
22:18:00 <Eddi|zuHause> correct. you only ever have to give out the source code to people you gave the binary to.
23:10:39 <TrueBrain> [22:29] <OwenS> IN CNAME web.openttd.org. aka redundant CNAMEs :p <- don't talk bull, this is completely allowed, and not in any way redundant .. as in that case ALL CNAMEs are redundant!
23:11:44 <petern> it's a strange definition of 'redundant', i must say
23:11:50 <OwenS> TrueBrain: I'll admit I made a mistake; the RFC doesn't ban CNAMEs to CNAMES but does say CNAME records that point to other CNAME records should be avoided (RFC 1034 section 5.2.2)
23:12:22 <TrueBrain> avoided != wrong or in violation ;)
23:12:26 <TrueBrain> but for sure it is not redundant
23:12:56 <TrueBrain> (sorry, was skipping over the logs when I noticed that entry ;)
23:12:58 <OwenS> I do agree with DJB when he says that DNS should have not included CNAMES but instead the DNS server should have resolved them however
23:13:20 <TrueBrain> not really .. possible over multiple DNS zones
23:13:23 <TrueBrain> (like in this case)
23:13:47 <OwenS> He said the DNS server should have done the lookup at the origin server
23:14:05 <TrueBrain> OwenS: lol, nice way to DDoS a DNS server
23:14:09 <TrueBrain> no, I think that would be a terrible idea
23:14:11 <TrueBrain> and who the fuck is DJB?
23:14:21 <TrueBrain> (remember, DNS is intended for LOW bandwidth FAST lookup service)
23:14:41 <OwenS> TrueBrain: Ok, your DNS server caches the record for it's TTL (Or half it for efficiency)
23:14:57 <TrueBrain> OwenS: 'caching' by default is not the intension of a DNS server
23:15:05 <TrueBrain> the idea is of him to fast serve things from static files
23:15:21 <TrueBrain> so any 'resolving' or 'looking up' would be terrible
23:15:35 <TrueBrain> qmail .. the most unsupported tool ever .. 'it is finished'
23:15:41 <OwenS> TrueBrain: Caching on the first request would not be particularly expensive
23:15:42 <TrueBrain> yeah .. and therefor there are N+1 patches available :p
23:15:48 <petern> daemontools... because inetd doesn't work?
23:15:48 <OwenS> TrueBrain: QMail is now Public Domain...
23:15:49 <TrueBrain> OwenS: in complexity? Sure it would
23:16:00 <TrueBrain> like you make httpds do all kind of funky shit .. wait .. they nowedays do :(
23:16:14 <TrueBrain> OwenS: I don't care. I think it is stupid you consider your product DONE
23:16:22 <OwenS> TrueBrain: He said this after writing his own DNS server and his own DNS resolution library. I tend to think that qualifies him to make such comment
23:16:47 <TrueBrain> OwenS: might be, but it defeats the IDEA of a DNS server .. how ever he implemented HIS implementation of that idea
23:16:56 <glx> TrueBrain: real 45m51.301s
23:17:19 <TrueBrain> like saying authors of Apache have anything to say in the httpd branch based on their apache experience :p nginx, lighttpd, and cherokee proofed that ;)
23:17:26 <glx> and it's not an universal build
23:17:48 <TrueBrain> OwenS: I strongly believe in simplicity of things
23:17:55 <TrueBrain> 'internal lookup' is not anywhere close to that
23:17:59 <R0b0t1> Apache = not so great. Too much multithreading.
23:18:00 <glx> but I'm quite sure it's because there's no vmware video driver for tiger
23:18:04 <TrueBrain> now a DNS server only has to accept a connection and feed data back
23:18:07 <TrueBrain> nothing less, nothing more
23:18:13 <OwenS> TrueBrain: He believes in the simplicity of DNS resolves rather than the simplicity of DNS servers.
23:18:16 <TrueBrain> in DJB's 'idea', it would need to do SO FUCKING MUCH MORE :(
23:18:26 <TrueBrain> R0b0t1: too much code.
23:18:40 <OwenS> Apache sucks because it's ancient :p
23:18:52 <TrueBrain> glx: possible ... I came a long way yesterday in OSX shit .. tomorrow I am going to try a local isntall, as I think I gathered enoguh shit :)
23:18:58 <TrueBrain> who knows that can speed up things :p
23:19:06 <TrueBrain> OwenS: ancient != bad
23:19:11 <petern> incidentally, tinydns' data file is : separated
23:20:00 <TrueBrain> OwenS: either way, if you base your opinion on one 'expert', you are as worse as the next guy :)
23:20:06 <TrueBrain> read up what PowerDNS guys things of it :p
23:20:16 <OwenS> TrueBrain: The PowerDNS guys agree with him on many points :p
23:20:18 <TrueBrain> either way, DNS by concept is kind of bad :)
23:20:24 <TrueBrain> 'on many' being this one? :p
23:20:37 <OwenS> Well I should point out it's a bit too late to change DNS now
23:21:01 <TrueBrain> I can't imagine my life without CNAMEs ....
23:21:14 <TrueBrain> AFXR for one ... I love that CNAMEs are there
23:21:21 <TrueBrain> not some internal resolving ..... :(
23:21:41 <TrueBrain> mailfilter MX level ... I love CNAMEs there
23:22:02 <OwenS> But if given the opertunity... first thing I would do is get rid of it's crappy compression system which is worse than any general purpose algorithm and simultaniously more complex
23:22:17 <TrueBrain> THAT you would get ride of in the DNS system?
23:22:34 <TrueBrain> LOL! I think that should be the lowest priority on any list ;)
23:23:31 <Xaroth> ugh i should actually go to bed
23:23:33 <TrueBrain> HTTP SRV would be useful for OpenTTD at least ... :(
23:23:41 <TrueBrain> Xaroth: you just said you were! HOP HOP!
23:23:46 <TrueBrain> tomorrow is another big day :)
23:23:54 <Xaroth> the discussion was too fun to watch
23:24:04 <TrueBrain> fun is the good word :)
23:24:09 <TrueBrain> give EVO a big kiss from me
23:24:18 <Xaroth> that would be quite.. impossible
23:24:18 <TrueBrain> I ahven't been there in.... I can't remember when I was there last :p
23:24:34 <Xaroth> I left some info and stuffs in the other chan btw.
23:24:38 <OwenS> I'd also like to shoot the DNSSEC people for producing a stupid unworkable system...
23:25:02 <Xaroth> OwenS: create a new (better) system?
23:25:02 <TrueBrain> for some reason my IRC didn't tell me :(
23:25:18 <OwenS> Xaroth: DNS is pretty well entrenched :p
23:25:38 <OwenS> It also, in spite of it's cruftiness, works 99.99% of the time
23:26:29 <TrueBrain> OwenS: tnx for the late night talk about useless stuff :) Now I will find my bed :)
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23:52:27 *** Davelister was kicked by DorpsGek (Wrong channel. Retry in #openttdcoop.)
continue to next day ⏵
