IRC logs for #openttd on OFTC at 2009-08-17
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00:13:18 <Roujin> hello to any soul who might happen to be here at such a time
00:15:34 <Roujin> straight to the stupid question I was going to ask: is it a bad idea to quote (or fully use) the ending song of valve software's Portal in a NoAI that's going to be GPL'ed?
00:16:32 <Roujin> for both options "quote (partially)" and "fully use" ?
00:16:34 <OwenS> The cake is not a lie. But it is very squicky
00:16:52 <Roujin> and how probable is "probably", anyway? ;)
00:17:07 <glx> better not quote it at all
00:17:50 <OwenS> What would an AI need to quote it for anyway? O_o
00:17:52 <Roujin> aww, that's sad. Then I can't have my AI write "I'm still alive" in its main loop, because that would be a quote of that song?
00:17:56 <OwenS> Or is this AI called GLaDOS?
00:18:17 <OwenS> I'm still alive would be fine - probably noncopyrightable and at the least fair use :p
00:18:19 <Roujin> OwenS: haha, no, but that's an awesome idea ^^
00:18:49 <OwenS> Your intention was to have it slowly quote the song wasn't it? :p
00:19:56 <Roujin> yup. Instead of just posting "I'm still alive" over and over ;) But with the concern glx wrote, seems I'll take that out before any public release..
00:20:55 <OwenS> Is it legal? No. Would you be sued? Probably not.
00:24:00 <OwenS> The trouble with transitioning something to a proper open source project is you end up with ~23 line (X11 license) license boilerplate in each file...
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02:15:37 <DorpsGek> PeterT: yorick was last seen in #openttd 3 weeks, 5 days, 5 hours, 24 minutes, and 50 seconds ago: <yorick> also, don't listen to me
02:16:00 <PeterT> has anyone had luck with compiling on vc++
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05:13:49 <Zuu> "Install this on a couple computers for me" sounds like a bad virus email joke :-)
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09:39:55 <fonsinchen> Is there a way to find out about the length of a string before actually drawing it? So that I can decide if I have to break a line.
09:42:03 <fonsinchen> Ah, I see ... GetStringBoundingBox. Sorry for the stupid question.
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10:39:07 * OwenS wonders if the engineers coming with his new broadband equipment will be on time (They have 21 minutes)
10:39:12 <TrueBrain> blathijs: is it possible via LDAP to have ssh keys? Or do they need to be in ~/.ssh/authorized_keys?
10:39:44 <OwenS> TrueBrain: I'd assume that SSH doesn't touch LDAP and for this sort of thing assumes NFS usage :p
10:40:14 <Eddi|zuHause> OwenS: since when are people like this ever on time?
10:40:35 <OwenS> Eddi|zuHause: Very good question :p
10:40:39 <blathijs> TrueBrain: Dunno, haven't tried that
10:41:03 <blathijs> TrueBrain: Debian stores ssh keys in LDAP, but I think they write out authorized_keys files on changes
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10:42:16 <OwenS> Eddi|zuHause: They're on time if you're the first job of the day. If you're not, they're probably late :p
10:42:42 <Eddi|zuHause> but would the first job not be around 8 to 9-ish?
10:43:33 <OwenS> (Though they said "any time between 8 and 12")
10:50:10 <OwenS> Actually, they are on time... when you're not :p
10:51:00 <TrueBrain> blathijs: well, in the ideal situation 1 developer can login to several VPSes with 1 key .. and sharing them outside the VPSes is tricky ;)
10:52:52 <blathijs> TrueBrain: What do you mean with "outside the VPSes" ?
10:53:09 <blathijs> I have shared homedirs for all my vservers, but that's probably not ideal from a security pov
10:53:10 <TrueBrain> blathijs: well, 2 VPSes, shared accounts via LDAP (and their authentication)
10:53:48 <blathijs> But I don't think that openssh has any direct LDAP code, it only talks to LDAP through PAM
10:54:16 <blathijs> and I don't think PAM can handle key auth (though perhaps GSSAPI does something similar perhaps, with pam_kerberos or something?)
10:55:02 <TrueBrain> well, I think I will make a simple way which generates those files
10:55:18 <OwenS> Kerberos would require your local machine be configured for Kerberos... eww
10:59:08 <OwenS> Eddi|zuHause: On time :P
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11:13:13 <Xaroth> TrueBrain: I doubt you can use SSH keys with LDAP..
11:13:31 <TrueBrain> Xaroth: blathijs already told me, yes :p
11:14:11 <Xaroth> if you're already using LDAP
11:14:27 <TrueBrain> why an apple, if you have an house!
11:14:56 <TrueBrain> those 2 entries are not really related to eachother, other than they supply authentication :)
11:15:00 <TrueBrain> one only password less
11:15:35 <petern> i want to have ssh keys AND system passwords :s
11:15:50 <petern> probably some way of setting that up, but i've not found it
11:16:23 <Xaroth> petern: AND authentication instead of OR ?
11:16:46 <TrueBrain> client-side certificates
11:16:54 <TrueBrain> keyphrased protected keys
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13:11:48 <Eddi|zuHause> hm... i can't properly set up two screens
13:13:40 <Eddi|zuHause> i can choose "clone display 1" which works, but when i choose "extend desktop", it sets the resolution to 1024x480
13:15:33 <glx> I know how to configure an ATI card
13:16:27 <Eddi|zuHause> it's only temporary anyway... just wanted to see if it was working...
13:16:56 <Eddi|zuHause> the two monitors are of the same model, but they have extremely different colour...
13:17:26 <OwenS> Eddi|zuHause: Is one on 6500k and the other 9300k?
13:18:03 <TrueBrain> GRRR, stupid ldap doesn't let me set a password of a user account .. keeps complaining about sasl :s
13:18:04 <OwenS> (The 6500k one will look yellowy while the 9300k one will look blue-white by comparison)
13:18:06 <Eddi|zuHause> both with same setting
13:18:17 <OwenS> TrueBrain: SASL means login failure :p
13:18:29 <TrueBrain> yeah, it ALWAYS means that, yeah, thank you very much
13:18:54 <OwenS> Eddi|zuHause: Then I don't know. My experience all lies with nVIDIA cards anyway
13:19:22 <OwenS> (Except for some work with an Intel GMA....)
13:21:00 <Eddi|zuHause> OwenS: the colour is not about the card...
13:21:22 <OwenS> Eddi|zuHause: With the exception of "Digital Vibrance" settings, I know
13:22:48 <Xaroth> Eddi|zuHause: try forcing the resolution?
13:23:18 <Eddi|zuHause> Xaroth: it only allows me to select this resolution
13:23:46 <OwenS> What is the graphics card model? Is it incapable of dualing at higher resolutions?
13:24:01 <Eddi|zuHause> and something like enabling xinerama and restarting x, but i don't really feel like doing that
13:24:20 <Eddi|zuHause> it's a Radeon 9700 Pro
13:25:34 <reldred1> Oh lovely, dualscreen on radeon always was fun back in the day
13:26:10 <reldred1> Several years ago however, back when X was evil and men were men
13:26:34 <reldred1> X is still evil, but men are largely latte drinking pansies.
13:26:34 <reldred1> None of which has anything to do with the matter at hand. I'll go now.
13:26:49 <Eddi|zuHause> well, AMD just discontinued support for this card this year
13:27:07 <Eddi|zuHause> the new monitor is much brighter than the old one
13:27:27 <OwenS> That's always the case. Monitors dim with age
13:27:52 <OwenS> The 9700 pro is a 7 year old card with only 128MB RAM...
13:28:11 <OwenS> Well, it's possible they're using a brighter backlight now or any of 1000 variables
13:28:45 <Eddi|zuHause> well, it's possible some of the backlight tubes break
13:28:46 <OwenS> Though nothing will beat the difference side-by-side LCD vs CRT will give you :p
13:28:59 <reldred1> The 9700 Pro is 7 years old now? faaaark, I remember cranking Morrowind on my freshly installed 9600 Pro
13:29:02 <Eddi|zuHause> i threw away all my CRTs
13:29:35 <Eddi|zuHause> 7 years? i don't have my computer that long...
13:29:47 <OwenS> I have a CRT for the olde Windows box, but thats it
13:30:16 <petern> i have a 21" CRT monitor
13:30:27 <petern> can't be arsed moving it
13:30:36 <Eddi|zuHause> although i bought it as a used one, but it was more high end than anything i would have got at Aldi
13:30:48 <Eddi|zuHause> petern: i know that problem
13:31:04 <OwenS> I never went higher than 17" CRT :p
13:31:05 <glx> 17" CRT are already heavy
13:31:06 <petern> if i ever moved my 'studio' into a spare bedroom i might set it up as a telly or something, heh
13:31:36 <Eddi|zuHause> but mine had a colouring failure, and later it broke
13:31:41 <OwenS> I have a 19" LCD which weighs about as much though...
13:31:47 <Eddi|zuHause> so it was just standing there useless...
13:32:00 <OwenS> (Freaking heavy steel base!)
13:32:01 <Eddi|zuHause> i remember how i took the monitor on a LAN party
13:32:18 <Eddi|zuHause> the people complained, because they had a really small flat :p
13:32:31 <Eddi|zuHause> the next lan party i brought a 15" monitor
13:32:40 <Eddi|zuHause> and they complained because it was really tiny :p
13:33:02 <OwenS> I'd probably take the 19" LCD. It's JUST portable enough :p
13:33:07 <Eddi|zuHause> that was a great monitor, though, i could run it at higher resolutions than the 21"
13:33:12 <petern> my 22" LCD is quite heavy
13:33:56 <OwenS> (I am being serious about the 19" Philips LCD weight = 17" CRT weight BTW :P )
13:34:02 <Eddi|zuHause> i just picked up the box with the new monitor, and it felt really light...
13:34:27 <Eddi|zuHause> i was wondering if there actually was anything in there...
13:35:12 <petern> sometimes things seem heavier out of the box
13:36:47 <Eddi|zuHause> i know that differently...
13:37:15 <Eddi|zuHause> we had a porcellan weight, and it looked like a cup upside down
13:37:28 <Eddi|zuHause> and everyone wanted to pick up the cup and turn it
13:37:39 <Eddi|zuHause> then suddenly relize it was heavier than they anticipated :p
13:39:15 <OwenS> I should get a Uranium block. would be good for tricking people that way. And scaring the crap out of them :p
13:40:24 <Eddi|zuHause> OwenS: you heard the story about two kids playing "nuclear power plant" with a couple of old computer cases and a printout of a "radioactive" sign?
13:40:50 <Eddi|zuHause> they went away for a few minutes, and left it on the road
13:41:07 <Eddi|zuHause> and when they came back, a huge police operation was there, thinking it was a "dirty bomb"
13:41:23 <OwenS> As if a real dirty bomb would have a handy trefoil on it...
13:41:41 <OwenS> I can go one better though
13:42:01 <Eddi|zuHause> ok... with this stereo view i'm going mad...
13:42:03 <OwenS> I read about a guy who actually built a "reactor" in his potting shed.
13:44:09 <OwenS> Well... the Environmental Protection Agency weren't pleased...
13:48:15 <Eddi|zuHause> how is that "better"?
13:48:31 <petern> pretty much everyone has read about something similar to that...
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14:04:24 <OwenSX48BD> TrueBrain: 11 ae0-24.bb1.ams3.nl.gbxs.net (193.27.64.205) 32.902 ms 32.904 ms 32.853 ms <-- Much better!
14:04:33 <TrueBrain> OwenSX48BD: concratz
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14:05:11 <OwenS> Though I can't fully switch over yet as the router hasn't arrived
14:05:18 <TrueBrain> 6 ae0-24.bb1.ams3.nl.gbxs.net (193.27.64.205) 6.188 ms 6.681 ms 6.659 ms <- hihi
14:05:45 <OwenS> Theres a "you're in the same country and on the same landmass" issue there :p
14:06:31 <TrueBrain> and the "I have an ISP which has fiber from here directly to the AIX with only one hop in between" :p
14:06:44 <OwenS> 9 fa6-0.gxn-linx.transit1.linx.net (195.66.248.33) 20.858 ms 31.654 ms 31.307 ms (Though cable is higher latency than Ethernet/Fiber/etc anyway :P )
14:08:55 <OwenS> Now I should probably switch back until the router makes itself present before anyone starts probing my open ports :p
14:11:56 <Xaroth> 7th here, but that's due to 1 firewall and 1 gateway :P
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14:13:01 <Xaroth> 5 ae0-24.bb1.ams3.nl.gbxs.net (193.27.64.205) 2.242 ms 2.315 ms 2.291 ms
14:13:16 <Eddi|zuHause> ae0-24.bb1.ams3.nl.gbxs.net: Name or service not known
14:14:15 <OwenS> Just for comparison, via old connection... I don't get there...
14:14:32 <Eddi|zuHause> send failed: No buffer space available
14:14:44 <Eddi|zuHause> i guess traceroute doesn't like me...
14:15:10 <OwenS> Aha! 15 ae0-24.bb1.ams3.nl.gbxs.net (193.27.64.205) 74.534 ms 74.505 ms 80.703 ms
14:15:42 <OwenS> So my new result is less than half the old one :p
14:16:08 <Eddi|zuHause> 5 * vlan99.csw4.Frankfurt1.Level3.net (4.68.23.254) 267.092 ms vlan89.csw3.Frankfurt1.Level3.net (4.68.23.190) 299.168 ms
14:16:20 <Eddi|zuHause> that's the closest i get
14:16:56 <OwenS> Try tracerouting it by IP
14:17:02 <OwenS> And 4.? Isn't 4. unallocated?
14:17:06 <Eddi|zuHause> yeah, i did that
14:17:25 <Eddi|zuHause> apparently not...
14:17:41 <Eddi|zuHause> 17 ae0-24.bb1.ams3.nl.gbxs.net (193.27.64.205) 1232.738 ms 1228.787 ms 1242.805 ms
14:17:53 <Eddi|zuHause> i'm really at the end of the world...
14:19:21 <OwenS> Can I point out the irony that you share a land border with the netherlands? :p
14:20:18 <OwenS> I have to go ther across some ocean...and a much longer distance than you have worst case
14:21:01 <Eddi|zuHause> maybe my connection goes to the moon and back?
14:21:08 <Xaroth> OwenS: traceroute 193.42.212.7 ?
14:21:51 <OwenS> And I can't from my fast connection ATM :P
14:22:00 <Xaroth> because that's my datacenter?
14:22:40 <Xaroth> well ams-ix pings can fluctuate a LOT
14:22:49 <Xaroth> so I usually test to my datacenter and judge from that :P
14:23:03 * OwenS sends very long privmsg :p
14:23:05 <Eddi|zuHause> from inside the university i only get *
14:23:56 <OwenS> 20 fiberring-117441-adm-b1.c.telia.net (213.248.73.110) 74.863 ms 78.421 ms 80.670 ms is my last hop
14:26:23 <TrueBrain> why oh why does /etc/security/access.conf not work .. if I deny access from all, I can still make a SSH session :(
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14:33:48 <Eddi|zuHause> maybe that's an admin-protection ;)
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14:37:28 <Eddi|zuHause> well, we've all heard of many of these "damn, i just shut myself out from this server" problems ;)
14:38:16 <TrueBrain> not a real issue here, as I work in VPSes :)
14:39:04 <OwenS> For me I just ssh into the Xen dom0 and login which connects me to the system console :p
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14:46:00 <Eddi|zuHause> anybody know how i insert a custom script for a global hotkey?
14:47:18 <Eddi|zuHause> hm... i might have found something relevant
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14:54:39 <TrueBrain> who knows how to make exim only deliver mail for a given group?
14:55:16 <OwenS> Heh... my mail servers all deliver to virtual accounts
14:56:52 <TrueBrain> local delivery for openttd.org .. but with LDAP, there are many 'local' accounts :p
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15:39:40 <LordAzamath> hmm.. how many hq levels were there? 4 or 5?
15:40:36 <TrueBrain> no worries LordAzamath, we all talk in ourself too :)
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16:02:37 <TrueBrain> I think it is stupid exim4 can only deliver to all local accounts .. why can't you limit that (in a simple way) to a single group ...
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16:42:07 <blathijs> TrueBrain: I think you can do that, but probably not with Debian's standard configuration wizard
16:42:29 <TrueBrain> blathijs: yes, which annoys me ..
16:42:34 <TrueBrain> but okay, I am now trying to add a filter to nss
16:42:39 <TrueBrain> which is most likely the better way to go anyway :p
16:42:43 <TrueBrain> but MemberOf doesn't want to work :(
16:46:04 <blathijs> TrueBrain: I'll have a look later
16:50:47 <blathijs> TrueBrain: Do you want to check the primary group?
16:50:52 <blathijs> TrueBrain: Or any group membership?
16:51:40 <TrueBrain> primary group is rarely relevant
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16:56:27 <blathijs> How is something like: condition = ${lookup ldap {LDAPURL??sub?(&(uid=$local_part)(memberOf=some-group)}{$value}fail}
16:56:30 <blathijs> On the relevant router?
16:56:41 <TrueBrain> blathijs: as I said: I want to do NSS filtering :)
16:57:03 <TrueBrain> it is not that nice that all ldap users show up as local users :p
16:57:09 <TrueBrain> might give .. future problems, I say ;)
16:57:10 <blathijs> No, you said you were going to try that ;-p
16:57:24 <TrueBrain> but I noted that it would be a better way ;)
16:57:45 <blathijs> If you don't want those users to show up as local users, then yes
16:58:06 <TrueBrain> well .. it means all local software sees every openttd.org user as local
16:58:12 <blathijs> But I guess they still need an account on other vservers, so removing their uidNumber is not an option?
16:58:13 <TrueBrain> can lead to .. exploits? :p
16:58:59 <blathijs> Hmm, not sure how NSS filtering works :-)
16:59:05 <TrueBrain> filter <map> <filter>
16:59:10 <TrueBrain> but I can't get ldapsearch to do memberof shit
17:00:14 <TrueBrain> things keep on talking about 'member' entry which is in core.scheme
17:00:23 <TrueBrain> but either phpldapadmin doesn't show it, or it isn't there
17:01:12 <blathijs> TrueBrain: Perhaps you should try ldapvi, which gives a rather raw view on your LDAP entries
17:01:33 <blathijs> TrueBrain: Though phpldapadmin should be able to do that as well
17:02:20 <blathijs> I'm not exactly sure how this member stuff is supposed to work, I'm using uniqueMember, which references full dn's instead of usernames
17:02:44 <blathijs> But I had to compose some custom objectclasses to get that to work nicely
17:03:24 <TrueBrain> one might expect that group-lookups are very comon ...
17:03:38 <TrueBrain> it is easier to make an objectclass and use that as group :p
17:04:29 <blathijs> Well, I had it working with standard posixAccounts and posixGroups before that IIRC, but I wanted to be able to define groups of people without an account as well
17:04:50 <blathijs> e.g., people that only have a forwarding mail address
17:05:24 <TrueBrain> I loaded some memberOf overlay
17:05:26 <TrueBrain> but still nothing :p
17:06:46 <blathijs> TrueBrain: I can have a look tomorrow, if you're still struggling by then :-)
17:06:52 <blathijs> I'm off to a meeting in a few minutes
17:07:05 <_ln> hi blathijs and bye blathijs
17:07:05 <TrueBrain> I am going to get some food ...
17:07:12 <blathijs> (Btw, did you write down what you actually want to do with LDAP already? Or did you just start configging? :-p)
17:07:38 <TrueBrain> I don't have to write down wha tI want, as I know what I want :)
17:08:05 <blathijs> Even then, writing it down helps :-p
17:08:13 <TrueBrain> getting it to work, helps more
17:08:29 <blathijs> And I might be able to give you some advice on schema design, if I know what you want as well :-p
17:08:44 <TrueBrain> authentication and groups, that is all :)
17:08:54 <TrueBrain> go to your meeting, we talk later :)
17:09:53 <blathijs> I'm still waiting for $gf to arrive (I'm at the trefpunt in Utrecht Centraal currently, the Debian Developer that was going to sign my gpg key is delayed, so that meeting is cancelled :-p)
17:12:39 <TrueBrain> LDAP really doesn't update anything automatic :p If you remove a user, it is not removed from the group :p
17:13:27 <_ln> 2009-07-01 22:39 <Xaroth> people would argue that Utrecht is worth visiting
17:13:27 <_ln> 2009-07-01 22:39 <Xaroth> I.. still don't know what dope they are smoking
17:15:12 <blathijs> TrueBrain: That is something your frontend should handle for you, but there are hardly any decent frontends...
17:15:26 <TrueBrain> blathijs: for the rest, see PM :p
17:15:50 <blathijs> TrueBrain: I'll look at that tomorrow :-)
17:16:31 <TrueBrain> hmm .. I just manual inserted something phpldapadmin told me wasn't there ...
17:24:19 <TrueBrain> lol .. problem is dat PosixGroup and GroupOfNames are both structural objects, and can't be assigned to one container ...
17:38:32 <TrueBrain> yippie, fixed it :)
17:41:07 <blathijs> TrueBrain: Yup, that is exactly why I created my own schema
17:41:19 <TrueBrain> there is an rfc which makes posixGroup auxilary :)
17:43:14 <TrueBrain> hmm .. this schema I now use doesn't give the posix groups how they should be given
17:43:19 <TrueBrain> (as in: they don't show the members :p)
17:44:57 <blathijs> My schema doesn't really work with phpldapadmin in a useful yet :-)
17:45:34 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: translators * r17207 /trunk/src/lang/ (5 files):
17:45:34 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: -Update from WebTranslator v3.0:
17:45:34 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: catalan - 1 changes by arnaullv
17:45:34 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: hungarian - 2 changes by IPG
17:45:34 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: indonesian - 1 changes by prof
17:45:34 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: serbian - 12 changes by etran
17:45:34 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: spanish - 1 changes by Terkhen
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18:27:03 <petern> heh, two consecutive translator commits
18:28:31 <frosch123> yeah, ottd is always moving :) at least one commit per day
18:28:56 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: frosch * r17208 /trunk/src/table/engines.h: -Cleanup: Remove never accessed EngineInfo for engine 255.
18:34:00 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: frosch * r17209 /trunk/src/ (7 files in 2 dirs): -Codechange: Move cargo_type from (Rail|Road|Ship)VehicleInfo to EngineInfo.
18:38:45 <frosch123> i know, you already had a patch for that :p
18:39:57 <petern> but you ripped it out!
18:40:28 <frosch123> so, ai_rank, currently unused, will noai ever be interested in that?
18:41:08 <frosch123> hmm, it does not hurt though
18:43:59 <petern> as i did go to the effort of implementing it :s
18:45:42 <OwenS> Ooh ooh ooh, even better news, the router that I'm being shipped is DD-WRT/OpenWRT compatible
18:48:45 <SpComb> and I'd write that as "OpenWRT/DD-WRT compatible"
19:00:10 <OwenS> SpComb: yes it's ours :p
19:00:28 <OwenS> The main purpose of said hacking is VLan trunking anyway
19:01:56 *** Priskiina is now known as Priski
19:02:17 <OwenS> As in, shifting the Wi-Fi stuff onto it's own VLAN to seperate it from trusted devices :p
19:02:57 <SpComb> you can also have multiple SSIDs with different encryption settings as well :)
19:03:21 <SpComb> i.e. an open guest WLAN on one VLAN, WPA2-PSK on one, WPA2 with RAIDUS on another
19:03:45 <SpComb> (but byte counters don't work for those per-ssid network interfaces... so no snmp stats for WDS links)
19:05:26 <OwenS> One WPA-PSK, which gets you the internet and nothing else. One open, which gets you to the proxy servers :p
19:05:56 <SpComb> with transparent image rotation
19:06:21 <Xaroth> as in, a proxy that turns every image upside-down?
19:06:24 <Xaroth> cuz that would be awesome :P
19:06:37 <OwenS> How about with colour inversion? :p
19:07:38 <OwenS> Hmm... Hopefully it will be a Rev C model; the older revisions are Ubicom processor based and not hackable
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19:13:38 <frosch123> you try it every day, don't you?
19:13:40 <fonsinchen> I strongly guess that this is bogus as it leaves v->load_unload_time remaining at 0
19:13:53 <frosch123> rb is not in this channel :)
19:14:38 <fonsinchen> If I remove that condition and thus make every vehicle stop loading immediately after starting, it should still work, shouldn't it?
19:15:10 <fonsinchen> Now I have a rather large cargodist savegame which works fine with the condition like it is and immediately crashes with the condition removed.
19:15:26 <fonsinchen> like this: openttd: /home/alve/projekte/openttd/src/economy.cpp:1144: void LoadUnloadVehicle(Vehicle*, CargoReservation&): Assertion `v->load_unload_time_rem != 0' failed.
19:15:54 <fonsinchen> If I was really fast I could have created the same situation by manually reversing that train.
19:16:05 *** ChanServ sets mode: +v tokai
19:16:48 <frosch123> so it crashes when you remove the test? well, why do you remove it then?
19:17:02 <fonsinchen> because it is really hard to trigger that condition
19:17:15 <frosch123> load_unload_time is shared between pbs and loading btw
19:17:23 <fonsinchen> and I need to trigger that case to test if that's the cause of someone else's crash
19:17:45 <frosch123> and if a train is reversed and reserves a path it will likely deal with it
19:18:48 <frosch123> well, I still did not understand you. do you want to add a 'load_unload_time = 0;' inside the if block?
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19:19:19 <fonsinchen> no it is 0 there already
19:19:27 <fonsinchen> because it has been checked before
19:19:52 <fonsinchen> the problem is exactly that. If it enters LoadUnloadVehicle again after that block, it crashes
19:19:58 <fonsinchen> so it needs to be set to 1
19:20:06 <fonsinchen> (or whatever else, but not 0)
19:20:21 <planetmaker> fonsinchen: I can confirm this error in r17170
19:20:31 <Noldo> or it needs to not enter LoadUnloadVehicle again
19:20:44 <fonsinchen> like a few lines further: v->load_unload_time_rem = max(1, unloading_time);
19:21:10 <fonsinchen> I don't know the exact code path, but obviously it can happen that it enters again
19:22:08 <frosch123> well, open a fs task, rb knows that code better
19:22:53 <fonsinchen> planetmaker, can you give me that save game?
19:46:38 *** andythenorth has left #openttd
19:58:15 <fonsinchen> nvm, I have found a suitable savegame myself.
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20:24:39 *** Fast2 was kicked by DorpsGek (wrong channel?)
20:25:33 <LaSeandre> and infinite time to write the complete works of shakespeare
20:25:54 <R0b0t1> And infinite monkeys will be arrested for copyright violations in the process.
20:26:06 <Fast2> No, but I wodered what this is
20:26:08 <R0b0t1> As they'd randomly make other plays and stuff too.
20:26:27 <TrueBrain> LaSeandre: you only need either infinite time or infinite monkeys, not both
20:28:50 <fonsinchen> But it doesn't hurt to have both.
20:30:01 * R0b0t1 wonders if monkeys are turing-complete
20:30:08 <R0b0t1> You could solve a lot of problems with lots of monkeys.
20:30:13 <TrueBrain> LaSeandre: you only need either infinite time or infinite monkeys, not both
20:30:19 <TrueBrain> wrong screen, sorry LaSeandre
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20:55:58 <Eddi|zuHause> R0b0t1: the main assumption there is that they can read what they previously wrote
20:56:28 <Eddi|zuHause> then the proof should be easy
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20:57:01 <TrueBrain> Eddi|zuHause: monkeys can't read
20:57:08 <TrueBrain> that is the whole idea .. they just .. type something
20:57:26 <Eddi|zuHause> TrueBrain: i meant about the turing-completeness
20:57:37 <TrueBrain> Eddi|zuHause: yes, that was about the monkeys
20:57:41 <Eddi|zuHause> TrueBrain: and the shakespear thing is flawed
20:57:51 <Eddi|zuHause> it assumes that the monkeys do not get into an endless loop
20:58:02 <TrueBrain> in infinite time, even that doesn't matter
20:58:11 <TrueBrain> no matter what your entropy is, in infinite time, everything happens
20:58:13 <OwenS> if it's an infinte loop it does :p
20:59:08 <LaSeandre> i seem to have sparked a debate about Turing and infinite monkeys...
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20:59:39 <OwenS> I was going to point out that's normal round here...
20:59:44 <TrueBrain> no, infinite monkeys were already here
20:59:54 <TrueBrain> they are crawling all over the place
21:00:07 <Eddi|zuHause> they take no end!
21:00:38 <OwenS> Send them all to 1 Infinte Loop, CA, USA :p
21:01:36 *** ChanServ sets mode: +v tokai
21:01:49 * TrueBrain tries to make the final blocks for his 16bit convertor
21:01:53 <TrueBrain> but has a hard time on the very last pieces :(
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21:04:53 <Eddi|zuHause> well, you know the 90-90 rule ;)
21:05:09 <Eddi|zuHause> 90% of the time is spent on 90% of the development
21:05:21 <Eddi|zuHause> and the other 90% of the time is spent on the rest
21:05:47 <TrueBrain> .... doesn't make sense ...
21:05:58 <TrueBrain> 90% of the time .. the other 90% ..
21:06:01 <TrueBrain> you can't do math :(
21:06:09 <Eddi|zuHause> that's the point ;)
21:06:12 <TrueBrain> that is what you get when you send infinite monkeys in an endless loop :(
21:06:16 <OwenS> The point is that you get 90% done... then discovery ou have another 90% to do
21:06:16 <TrueBrain> IT IS A WRONG POINT!
21:06:19 <R0b0t1> He just can't do it 90% of the time
21:06:25 <Sacro> we got told that at uni
21:06:44 <TrueBrain> at my uni they at least make sense .. 90% of the time you spent on 10% of your app
21:06:50 <Eddi|zuHause> TrueBrain: the point is, everything takes longer than anticipated
21:07:05 <TrueBrain> I don't care! It doesn't add up! I refuse to believe! THERE IS NO SPOON!
21:07:22 <Eddi|zuHause> psst... your OCD is coming through ;)
21:07:45 <Eddi|zuHause> R0b0t1: that's a dangerous field you are entering
21:07:51 <TrueBrain> do you know what day it is tomorrow?
21:08:05 <TrueBrain> do you know what that means?
21:08:07 <R0b0t1> Another painful amount of time?
21:08:17 <TrueBrain> do you know what happened 364 days ago? (and tomorrow 365)
21:08:59 <TrueBrain> it was a very good day for OpenTTD
21:09:25 <TrueBrain> nope, that was longer ago
21:09:33 <TrueBrain> it was a day that made me so happy
21:09:48 <TrueBrain> no, I do that all the time
21:10:13 <TrueBrain> I just received word that in fact it isn't until the 19th
21:10:28 <TrueBrain> until then, you can only guess, and I won't tell :)
21:11:07 <Eddi|zuHause> > svn log -r '{2008-08-18}:{2008-08-19}'
21:11:09 <Eddi|zuHause> svn: Failed to find time on revision 8604
21:11:21 <TrueBrain> haha, subversion error :)
21:11:29 <TrueBrain> I guess we should install 1.6 soon
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21:11:36 <Eddi|zuHause> yeah, and it's your fault :p
21:11:59 <TrueBrain> well .. not completely .. Rubidium did the filtering :p
21:12:03 <Eddi|zuHause> you tinkered with the internal data ;)
21:15:20 <TrueBrain> I hope subversion will accept the vhost patch soon :(
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21:46:27 <pavel1269> time for bed, gn folks :-)
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22:15:59 * OwenS wonders where the hell one finds a TTL S/PDIF (AKA Motherboard Header) to TOSLINK (AKA Optical S/PDIF) bracket...
22:16:18 <TrueBrain> I would guess in a store
22:16:22 <TrueBrain> but that is too obvious I guess
22:16:31 <SpComb> packaged along with your motherboard
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22:25:49 *** ^Spike^ is now known as ^spike^
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23:05:55 <R0b0t1> Is "unload and leave empty" pretty much a transfer order?
23:08:19 <Eddi|zuHause> there is a difference in behaviour when the station accepts the cargo
23:17:40 <TrueBrain> whoho, my static recompiler seems to work very nice :)
23:21:32 <TrueBrain> and I wish you all a very good night
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23:48:21 <OwenS> Is it just me... Or should a supposed government body NOT own patents? ...
23:52:48 *** LaSeandre has joined #openttd
23:54:23 <Eddi|zuHause> OwenS: i don't really know anything, but afair, american government employees cannot claim copyright over things they produce while they are working. i don't know in how far that extends to patents
23:54:46 <OwenS> Even worse: this is an Austalian government body with US patents....
23:55:39 <OwenS> Which has basically decided to suplement it's funding with patent trolling
23:55:40 <reldred1> Are we whinging about CSIRO patent trolling?
23:56:04 <Eddi|zuHause> why should the australian government not be able to hold US patents?
23:56:09 <reldred1> Yeah, but CSIRO make all sorts of cool shit, so they're allowed to patent troll as far as I'm concerned :P
23:56:32 <reldred1> If it was some legal entitity that did nothing, and just patent trolled for quick cash, then I'd be annoyed
23:57:08 <reldred1> God knows our government won't give them anywhere near enough money, they gotta get their cash somehow
23:57:25 <OwenS> OK. Please stop killing my Wi-Fi kit vendors :p
23:57:54 <OwenS> But isn't government work generally supposed to be made freely available?
23:58:10 <Eddi|zuHause> no, why would it?
23:58:20 <Eddi|zuHause> it's every government's own decision to do that
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