IRC logs for #openttd on OFTC at 2009-07-05
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08:40:06 <andythenorth_> andythenorth is actually playing the game instead of drawing stuff for it. Pretty good game by the way ;)
08:40:24 <Azrael-> i just lost the game :<
08:40:33 <Rubidium> what is this game you're talking about?
08:41:38 <andythenorth_> OpenTTD of course. Is there another game?
08:42:17 <Chris_Booth> see andy that is a good question
08:42:25 <Chris_Booth> there are other games but IMO none as good
08:43:06 <Rubidium> is it a game? I thought it was a 100% realistic clone of reality
08:48:46 <Alberth> nobody here has any experience w.r.t. being a transport tycoon in RL, so what the program shows, may be real
08:49:55 <andythenorth_> Alberth: speak for yourself, I am currently playing from the bridge of one of my 47 merchant ships.
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08:54:48 <Alberth> any real tycoon would not be at the bridge of his ships, he would live and work in the pent-house of his sky scraper
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11:18:36 <gleeb> 09:48 < Alberth> nobody here has any experience w.r.t. being a transport tycoon in RL, so what the program shows, may be real
11:18:49 <gleeb> ^^ Sounds like the railways here in the UK.
11:19:31 * frosch123 just learned that planetmaker is the tycoon
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11:54:57 <planetmaker> how would I go, if I have a savegame where I want to change two companies from AI to human?
11:55:31 <planetmaker> e.g. I want to keep the companies, but I want to get rid of the AI.
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12:01:04 <dadymax> Hi pplz. Did anyone knows what symtax of ingame script language?
12:01:44 <gleeb> There isn't one, unless you mean for making AIs?
12:02:09 <gleeb> Then there isn't one, I'm afraid.
12:02:09 <dadymax> I mean files in .\scripts dir
12:04:00 <gleeb> By the looks of things, it's basically just dumping commands to the console.
12:04:34 <dadymax> for ex.: I want to write scripr with alias "say_client 1 SOME TEXT" but SOME TEXT must be in quotes and it will conflict with quotes of alias :(
12:05:38 <dadymax> in-game console. I write : exec my_script
12:05:57 <dadymax> and answer - cannot find script
12:08:12 <dadymax> Can you try do this action? Maybe trouble in my PC... )))
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12:57:56 <planetmaker> [13:57] <Alberth> buy them out? <-- not quite what I want. I want them to become independent human companies :)
12:59:03 <Alberth> you cannot make a new company, then buy the AI out? (and repeat that twice)
12:59:27 <Alberth> otherwise I don't know.
12:59:50 <planetmaker> Hm... that's an idea :)
13:00:10 <planetmaker> it's anyway cheated to death :P
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13:20:28 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: smatz * r16745 /trunk/src/ (4 files in 2 dirs): -Fix [FS#3011]: invalidate JoinStation window after removing item from the pool
13:22:03 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: smatz * r16746 /trunk/src/ (road_cmd.cpp road_cmd.h town.h town_cmd.cpp): -Codechange: use Town::PostDestructor() instead of not very clean construct for invalidating nearest town for road tiles
13:25:36 <planetmaker> That's the only intention of it :)
13:25:59 <Ammler> planetmaker: the plane on the left, is that a glitch from your screen or the grf?
13:26:03 <planetmaker> though it could use still more vehicles and stuff
13:27:08 <planetmaker> Ammler: which plane? The dinger XYZ?
13:27:25 <planetmaker> They look that strange
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13:28:55 <gleeb> There's something odd about that screenshot. It's all in foreign ¬_¬
13:29:07 <Alberth> the water at the right looks weird with the original set
13:29:18 <Alberth> gleeb: it's designed for OpenGFX
13:29:20 <planetmaker> :) That's the future :)
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13:29:34 <planetmaker> there's no single newgrf
13:30:24 <gleeb> Alberth: I was referring to the text :P
13:31:11 <Ammler> Alberth: openttdw.grf could use the opengfx rivers.
13:31:12 <planetmaker> blue and red company are just at break even... :)
13:31:37 <Ammler> at least the river boarders
13:31:42 <Eddi|zuHause> planetmaker: and you couldn't have made an ingame screenshot?
13:31:59 <planetmaker> Eddi|zuHause: I could. But then the titlescreen layout wouldn't be visible.
13:32:34 <planetmaker> and yes, I forgot to cut the menu bar :)
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13:33:31 <Eddi|zuHause> well, the problem is that non-ingame screenshots will be 24bpp and thus probably bigger
13:33:47 <planetmaker> you're right, I guess.
13:33:50 <Ammler> planetmaker: drive-through road stops?
13:33:58 <planetmaker> But the important thing is title screen
13:34:15 <Eddi|zuHause> no, the important thing is my bandwidth :p
13:34:45 <planetmaker> Ammler: below the yellow monorail station in town is a blue one
13:34:55 <gleeb> If you're worried about your bandwidth, your ISP sucks.
13:35:30 <Eddi|zuHause> planetmaker: it could also be that the opengfx landscape is more noisy
13:35:41 <Eddi|zuHause> my screenshots tend to be around 500k
13:35:48 <Eddi|zuHause> and they are higher resolution
13:35:49 <planetmaker> Eddi|zuHause: no idea. But most probable that's 24bpp
13:35:50 <Ammler> planetmaker: behind the black box?
13:36:04 <planetmaker> Ammler: no. Just SW of it. Adjacent
13:36:27 <planetmaker> but behind the black box might be another. I don't recall :)
13:36:57 <planetmaker> but granted, they could be more prominent
13:36:58 <Eddi|zuHause> planetmaker: well, it shouldn't matter that much, if of those 2^24, only 256 different values are used
13:37:14 <Eddi|zuHause> plus a little garbage from the title bar
13:37:21 <gleeb> I dislike the black boxes ¬_¬
13:37:25 <Ammler> planetmaker: maybe you could make the monorail 2way
13:37:35 <Ammler> and show pbs feature :-)
13:37:46 <planetmaker> Ammler: maglev uses it.
13:38:23 <planetmaker> and the normal rail uses path signals, too
13:38:27 <Ammler> hmm, I see oneway signals there
13:38:51 <planetmaker> ah, yes, but the station uses path signals.
13:39:21 <planetmaker> and is through and terminus at the same time
13:39:51 <planetmaker> but making the monorail 2-way might look nicer, yes
13:40:04 <planetmaker> little space there, though
13:41:22 <Ammler> would be nice to have a situation where to trains cross without signals
13:44:45 <planetmaker> ok, I guess the blue dtrs has to move a bit :)
13:44:52 <Ammler> he, wouldn't it be nice, if the title screen changes, if you switch the clima?
13:44:55 <planetmaker> then that's possible for monorail
13:45:07 <planetmaker> well... that's something else.
13:45:20 <planetmaker> I just think that OpenTTD deserves a new one by now :)
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13:47:19 <Ammler> you should also try your map with smaller resolution
13:47:42 <planetmaker> Smaller is not the big problem IMO
13:47:47 <Ammler> it might look booring on north
13:47:52 <planetmaker> Bigger will show a bit more boring borders :)
13:48:13 <planetmaker> Yes, the map still needs improvement :)
13:49:36 <planetmaker> and any hints for improvement are welcome
13:50:32 <Eddi|zuHause> well, you should design at least for 1920x1180
13:50:58 <Eddi|zuHause> and try to make it not completely boring for people with two screens
13:51:05 <planetmaker> Yes, I guess :) But I have no monitor with more than 1024 in y :)
13:51:18 <planetmaker> Though I can test 2560 x 1024
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13:52:00 <Eddi|zuHause> i have a suggestion: when making a screenshot in zoomed-out state, make a zoomed-in screenshot of the visible area
13:52:23 <Eddi|zuHause> like a not-entirely-huge screenshot
13:52:52 <Eddi|zuHause> to make a screenshot of a larger area than fits on the screen
13:53:14 <planetmaker> yeah, good idea. Just zooming out one step or so
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13:53:43 <Eddi|zuHause> like, if you have x1/2 zoom, and make a screenshot, make a zoomed-in screenshot of twice the size in each direction
13:54:59 <Eddi|zuHause> basically, do a giant screenshot, but not of the entire map, but of the area delimited by the four corners of the screen
13:56:50 <planetmaker> But then... one can do a giant screenshot :)
13:59:17 <Eddi|zuHause> but on a 2048^2 ther is nothing inbetween
14:02:27 <Eddi|zuHause> i often wanted to make like a "panorama view" of a larger area
14:02:52 <Eddi|zuHause> but there is simply no way other than to make 4 screenshots and gluing them together somehow
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14:26:41 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: alberth * r16747 /trunk/src/window.cpp: -Fix: Non-resized windows also need a post re-init SetDirty.
14:37:10 <fonsinchen> Is it possible to download older versions of AIs from Bananas? I suspect Admiral v19 is crashing a specific cargodist save game, but I can't find v19 anymore.
14:37:34 <Alberth> in the forum thread perhaps?
14:38:22 <fonsinchen> I think Yexo replaced the file.
14:38:36 <fonsinchen> So I'd need a specific file handle, which I don't have
14:41:23 <SmatZ> bah, 4RN4 is too long level :-x
14:46:47 <gleeb> It's stolen so many hours of my life, and I've STILL not figured out what the numbers and graphs mean.
14:46:55 <gleeb> Damn it for being so awesome ¬_¬
14:49:17 <fonsinchen> It's not that hard to understand the numbers in the smallmap. Granted, there is no legend yet. But it's simply usage/capacity:sent/planned
14:50:37 <fonsinchen> usage is the number of cargo units counted at the receiving end of the link, sent is the number counted at the sending end. capacity is obvious and planned is the number of cargo units that should be sent that way.
14:52:12 <fonsinchen> ah, and the graphs: grey=usage, white=capacity, red=planned, yellow=sent
15:01:49 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: alberth * r16748 /trunk/src/fios.cpp: -Codechange: Don't cast away constness.
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15:36:31 <Ammler> If I use "rescan files" on the newgrf gui, shouldn't that have same effect as if I restart openttd?
15:37:15 <Ammler> I don't need to rescan to load the newgrf, but it still does show the old title.
15:39:55 <Xaroth> doesn't rescan onyl check for new files?
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15:54:00 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: alberth * r16749 /trunk/src/rail_gui.cpp: -Codechange: Rail toolbar uses nested widget tree only.
16:08:47 <planetmaker> Alberth: sounds like you're now slowly removing the old widget handling?
16:09:44 <Ammler> Xaroth: seems so, you still need to restart openttd
16:09:45 <Alberth> no, just removing *use* of the old widget handling :p
16:10:07 <planetmaker> one after the other, of course :)
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16:10:42 <Alberth> I hope so, there are quite a few nasty windows out there
16:10:54 <planetmaker> so now in principle I could go w/o the old way in new patches?
16:15:03 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: yexo * r16750 /trunk/src/settings.cpp: -Fix: mark the intro gui dirty when changing the difficulty level to avoid glitches on the difficulty button
16:15:25 <Alberth> for completely new windows? yes
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16:26:55 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: alberth * r16751 /trunk/src/widget.cpp: -Fix (r16740): Do not crash when using a non-standard font size in the widgets.
16:27:41 <Alberth> planetmaker: basically, you may not change state of the window or the widgets in OnPaint()
16:28:12 <Alberth> many existing window do that unfortunately, a lot of work to fix
16:30:42 <Alberth> planetmaker: so the proper way for existing windows is to clean up the OnPaint(), then you can switch to nested widgets only, and make the changes for the patch
16:31:03 <Alberth> oh, and death to all hard-coded offsets and sizes :)
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16:37:38 <planetmaker> And yes, I meant a completely new window (or rather a complete re-write of one, the newgrf gui selection) :)
16:39:03 <ashchetum> I fixed ottd, I figured out this funny command: sudo chmod -R 0777 /usr/share/games/openttd/data/
16:39:24 <Alberth> If OnPaint() just contains "this->DrawWidgets();" painting is good :)
16:39:42 <Yexo> ashchetum: that's not fixing, that's applying a hack because you don't read readme.txt
16:40:09 <ashchetum> not a hack, It wouldlnt work eitherwise
16:40:32 <Yexo> moving the data/ directory to ~/.openttd/ would be a better solution
16:41:24 <ashchetum> If it makes a difference, I was using linux, what you proprosed would mess it up more
16:42:18 <Yexo> why would that mess it up more?
16:42:23 <Alberth> ashchetum: no, it doesn't. It is generally bad to have world-writable data at a central place.
16:43:12 <Yexo> you can also have some of the grf files under /usr/share/games/openttd/data/ (for example the ttd grfs, put there by root, not writeable by world), then put all user-downloaded grfs in ~/.openttd/data
16:43:43 <ashchetum> Generaly bad, but it made it much easyer to add grf's and whatnot, before I did this openttd could not read the sample.cat file
16:44:37 <ashchetum> I had a whole lot of permission problems, and this is the only fix I found to work.
16:45:27 <Alberth> ashchetum: no it doesn't fix the permissions, if you download new files, you will have the same problems again
16:46:48 <ashchetum> no I wont, now that I made the folder full permissions, It will work fine. Besides, I don't need to add any more, the ottdcoop pack covers almost everything.
16:48:15 <Alberth> if you download a new file, it will get your default access rights, which is not world-readable with 99% chance. So another user cannot read your loaded file.
16:49:41 <Alberth> and good luck with your system
16:51:09 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: yexo * r16752 /trunk/src/ (airport_gui.cpp cheat_gui.cpp date.cpp): -Codechange: Remove most of the window-changing code from AirportPickerWindow::OnPaint
16:55:39 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: yexo * r16753 /trunk/src/intro_gui.cpp: -Fix (r16740): Don't check the width of the same string 4 times, but pick the maximum width of all difficulty levels
17:17:54 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: translators * r16754 /trunk/src/lang/ (5 files in 2 dirs):
17:17:54 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: -Update from WebTranslator v3.0:
17:17:54 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: arabic_egypt - 2 changes by kasakg
17:17:54 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: traditional_chinese - 64 changes by josesun
17:17:54 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: german - 4 changes by planetmaker
17:17:55 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: persian - 2 changes by Gajet9
17:21:17 * TrueBrain comes home, hits the volume button of his 2.0 music system, notices the little button saying: active bass, hits it ... and sits to enjoy it
17:21:22 <TrueBrain> I doubt my neighbours enjoy it as much as I do
17:22:10 <TrueBrain> (I might not have a subwoofer; I do have 2x 150W bass and 2x 30W trebble in a 'normal' pair of boxes :p)
17:22:41 * Yexo is glad not to be your neighbour :p
17:23:02 <TrueBrain> I forgot the volume this set could produce :)
17:24:16 *** XeryusTC is now known as Xeryus|bnc
17:24:21 <TrueBrain> I guess it can function as active noise filter ... no way you can hear any noise now :p
17:25:16 <petern> active bass mangler, eh?
17:25:33 <TrueBrain> boxes don't reach below 200 Hz .. that is sad :(
17:26:43 <TrueBrain> dunno .. my best guess it amplifies < 1 KHz
17:26:58 <planetmaker> o_O this un-teachable ach...-guy was here again. I see you had fun :P
17:27:33 <petern> my speakers only go down to 50 Hz
17:27:55 <TrueBrain> okay, I ordered a set which claims to reach 20 Hz
17:28:01 <TrueBrain> dunno if I believe it
17:28:25 <oskari89> Heh. You can test it with sound signal generator program :)
17:28:30 <TrueBrain> Teufel 5.1 set, nothing special :p
17:28:38 <TrueBrain> oskari89: no worries, I will :)
17:29:01 <TrueBrain> in the old days I did parties, and I have this CD marked: bass-test
17:29:08 <TrueBrain> it ... tests bass :p
17:29:23 <petern> i test bass with my keyboard and a synth, heh
17:30:12 <TrueBrain> although I have to say a few songs of System of a Down beats any basstest :p
17:30:28 <Yexo> planetmaker: I've already given up on helping him, after just a few minutes
17:30:53 <petern> it's all about tinny, and yes, oomph oomph
17:33:54 <TrueBrain> lol, neighbour comes to complain .. bah
17:34:18 <planetmaker> Yexo: the only sane choice. We've seen it yesterday already
17:34:19 <petern> tell them it's not your bass, yours only goes to 200Hz
17:34:49 <TrueBrain> it wasn't my car who hit that person, I only drive a Panda!
17:36:37 * petern ponders a 60cm deep and high, 360W, 20-80Hz subwoofer
17:36:57 <TrueBrain> depends on the size of your room
17:37:05 <petern> nowhere near enough :)
17:37:33 <Eddi|zuHause> i don't need a subwoofer
17:37:37 <Eddi|zuHause> i have a tuba :p
17:37:48 <TrueBrain> LOL! Nice Eddi|zuHause ;)
17:38:33 <TrueBrain> everything below 50Hz is not music anywa y:p
17:39:23 <Eddi|zuHause> infrasound can have influence on your mood ;)
17:39:36 <TrueBrain> infrared light too :p
17:39:46 <TrueBrain> I am serious too :)
17:39:49 <Eddi|zuHause> it's done sometimes in churches
17:40:19 <Eddi|zuHause> the ear doesn't notice it, but the body can feel the sound
17:40:29 <petern> a standard double bass goes down to 41Hz
17:40:43 <petern> a five string double bass goes down to 31Hz
17:41:45 <TrueBrain> Eddi|zuHause: in a good way or in a bad?
17:42:24 <Eddi|zuHause> more into the fear direction, i believe
17:42:27 <TrueBrain> "Infrasound has been known to cause feelings of awe or fear in humans.[16][17] Since it is not consciously perceived, it can make people feel vaguely that supernatural events are taking place."
17:42:34 <TrueBrain> (wikipedia, if you dare to believe that)
17:42:53 <TrueBrain> I only know low freq sounds can give the feeling of disorientation
17:43:18 <Eddi|zuHause> yes, the ear cannot properly trace the origin of deep tones
17:43:49 <TrueBrain> (I wonder what wikipedia says about the brown note)
17:45:39 <TrueBrain> lol, 10Hz at 153 dB ... lol :)
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18:47:14 <Xaroth> Rubidium: android version plx? :P
18:47:30 * Xaroth just got a HTC magic.. hrr hrr
18:48:05 <TrueBrain> Xaroth: why don't you become our porter to Android?
18:48:14 <TrueBrain> (like it would be playable on those systems, but okay)
18:48:18 <Xaroth> TrueBrain: 1) wb? 2) eh?
18:48:29 <Xaroth> You assume I can actually code C/C++ :P
18:48:43 *** Xeryus|bnc is now known as XeryusTC
18:48:43 <TrueBrain> I assume you can learn
18:48:47 <TrueBrain> and more of that :p
18:49:06 <planetmaker> 1:0 for TrueBrain :P
18:49:12 <petern> OH MY GOD I CANNOT BE **BOTHERED** TO LEARN SOMETHING YOU MUST **DO IT FOR ME**
18:49:38 <TrueBrain> Xaroth: that were _not_ my words, just to be perfectly clear :)
18:50:19 <TrueBrain> Xaroth: either way .. those smalls screens are really not for OpenTTD, in my hard opinion :)
18:50:28 <TrueBrain> ( Eddi|zuHause: that should make you happy, the last 4 words)
18:50:48 <Xaroth> though its got a quite nice resolution for such a small screen
18:51:07 <TrueBrain> I once tried to make aport for my HTC Tyan
18:51:18 <TrueBrain> took me a few weeks before I realised it is unplayable
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18:52:13 <petern> technically my 640x480 htc thing can do it
18:52:16 <petern> but it wouldn't be nice
18:52:27 <Xaroth> htc magic apparently is 320x480
18:52:45 <Xaroth> so -should- work, but will be small as hell
18:53:11 <TrueBrain> and the lack of a good mouse ...
18:53:26 <Xaroth> yeh, it does have a trackball BB-esque
18:54:03 <Xaroth> which might work, but is still a bit iffy
18:57:03 <Eddi|zuHause> what makes me sad is that i have (once again) such a small insect in my screen
18:57:16 <Eddi|zuHause> and this time it doesn't look like it's going away
18:57:46 <Eddi|zuHause> well, under the surface
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19:26:17 <Eddi|zuHause> well it's black, but right in the middle of the screen
19:26:30 <Eddi|zuHause> and really noticeable on a mostly white background
19:26:45 <Eddi|zuHause> and not moving a bit... (anymore)
19:26:48 <TrueBrain> you sure it is an insect, and not dead pixels? :)
19:27:13 <Eddi|zuHause> the kind of insect that sits on every white wall
19:27:32 <Chruker> does the tft have a protective screen?
19:28:04 <Eddi|zuHause> no, i believe it's all plastic
19:28:04 <Chruker> or is the screen surface 'soft'
19:28:32 <Eddi|zuHause> i have no reference what is "soft"
19:31:33 <TrueBrain> I have never seen a bug crawling into any of the screens I 'own'
19:31:37 <TrueBrain> maintain .. what ever :p
19:31:49 <TrueBrain> which hits the 500+ ... so I wonder why you have it at least twice ;)
19:32:07 <TrueBrain> do you put food in it? :p
19:33:33 <Eddi|zuHause> TrueBrain: well, i read it was a rather common problem
19:33:56 <Eddi|zuHause> these are really tiny bugs
19:34:28 <Chruker> When did you last have an exterminator visit your home? ;-)
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19:38:12 <Estiercol> Tired of Niggggers and their monkeyshines? Then join us at chimpout.com! We are NOT White Supremacists! We welcome and respect all HUMAN RACES of all colors. That means Asians, Whites, non-Negroid Hispanics, Semites, Indians, etc are all welcome. Join us in the epic battle of Human vs Negro and help us defeat and put in its place the Feral Negro Beast. http://www.chimpout.com/forum
19:38:55 *** DorpsGek sets mode: +b *!~BlackCrys@201.170.185.175.dsl.dyn.telnor.net
19:38:56 *** Estiercol was kicked by DorpsGek (TrueBrain)
19:39:07 <TrueBrain> Yexo: are you registered to DorpsGek?
19:39:25 <Yexo> TrueBrain: yes, but I have a different hostmask now (I'm at my parents house)
19:39:32 <Sacro> hehe, chimpout dude is back :D
19:41:10 <_ln> what is a negroid hispanic?
19:42:25 <Chruker> Although that particular one is between the tft panel and the backlight
19:42:52 <Yexo> TrueBrain: is there any way I can add a second hostmask to dorpsgek?
19:42:55 <Eddi|zuHause> just in a more central place
19:43:02 <TrueBrain> you can just identify
19:43:03 <Eddi|zuHause> and it's pissing me off
19:44:06 <Chruker> eddi, is it still moving/alive?
19:44:25 <Eddi|zuHause> _ln: hispanics are a cultural group, generalizing all spanish-speaking people of latin-america, not a race
19:44:31 <Eddi|zuHause> Chruker: no, it is not moving
19:44:36 <Eddi|zuHause> i don't know of alive
19:44:36 <TrueBrain> see, you are authorized
19:44:48 <Yexo> yes, because I used identify
19:44:51 <Eddi|zuHause> it's not exactly answering
19:45:05 <Yexo> but I think (not sure now), that dorpsgek recognises me automatically when I'm at home
19:45:14 <TrueBrain> if you added the hostmask ;)
19:45:19 <KenjiE20> Yexo, 'user hostmask add' should do it
19:46:41 <TrueBrain> 'hostmask list' shows your masks
19:46:45 <TrueBrain> (in a PM to DorpsGek please ;))
19:47:13 <Yexo> ok, managed to add my current hostmask now
19:47:22 <Yexo> thanks again for the help
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19:55:16 <TrueBrain> hit and run ... I hate hit and run
19:55:23 *** Dred_furst has joined #openttd
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20:04:35 *** Nite_Owl_ is now known as Nite_Owl
20:15:04 <_ln> you would need to pay RIAA for that
20:15:25 <TrueBrain> yeah, I already muted my phone
20:16:48 <Eddi|zuHause> that's not sufficient... because when you call someone, you send them the signal to play their ringtone, so it is a public playing of their ringtone by you
20:17:18 <Eddi|zuHause> (at least that is how i understood their reasoning)
20:17:23 <TrueBrain> so even typing this to you is wrong
20:17:41 <TrueBrain> as this makes your computer trigger a music too :)
20:24:04 <Eddi|zuHause> "ASCAP also has a theory that the carriers are direct infringers because they set up the system that causes phones to ring in public, but that theory is pretty handily wiped out by the recent Cablevision ruling, where the court found that setting up a "remote DVR" service doesn't make you a direct infringer when your customers use it."
20:24:39 <TrueBrain> this world is rotten, that is nothing new I hope :)
20:25:14 <frosch123> hmm, where is the revert button in ttdp wiki?
20:28:36 <TrueBrain> wrong channel for that question? :P
20:30:31 <frosch123> "Versions are identical" <- looks like I read the broken diff correctly
20:31:36 <Eddi|zuHause> (it's about ships, so it isn't off topic :p)
20:44:40 <Chruker> meh, now there are google ads popping up inside the video player...
20:45:46 <Eddi|zuHause> i don't know that... i don't actually open youtube links...
20:45:56 <TrueBrain> you only hand them out
20:46:20 <Eddi|zuHause> no, i have a script fetching the video url, and then directly wgetting that
20:47:09 <_ln> and you'll miss all the intelligent web 2.0 comments
20:51:48 <Eddi|zuHause> i miss a totally overloaded site blocking my garden hose of an internet connection
20:51:56 <Eddi|zuHause> and my non-functional flash plugin
20:53:14 <LadyHawk> i got this big town on the top border right
20:53:27 <LadyHawk> and right in the middle there's a train track going all the way to the south border to another town
20:53:37 <LadyHawk> and this town is like, building around my rails in a bum shape
20:54:39 <Eddi|zuHause> the top border or the right border?
20:54:49 <Eddi|zuHause> the right or the middle of the town?
20:54:57 <Nite_Owl> town builds no roads option
20:55:07 <Eddi|zuHause> your location descriptions are confusing
20:56:48 <Eddi|zuHause> and what is the actual problem now?
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20:59:59 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: yexo * r16755 /trunk/src/newgrf.cpp: -Codechange: apply some codestyle to newgrf.cpp
21:04:04 *** ProfFrink is now known as Prof_Frink
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21:28:35 <Chruker> hmmm, doesnt trams have bridges or tunnels?
21:40:28 <Chruker> nvm, I couldnt see how AIs would build them, but I forgot trams/roads are just a subtype like maglev or monorail
21:51:14 <Eddi|zuHause> hm... the insect seems to have moved again
21:51:20 <Eddi|zuHause> i can't find it anymore
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21:53:17 <SmatZ> Eddi|zuHause: do you have insect inside your monitor?
21:53:46 <Eddi|zuHause> i can see it moving again
21:59:40 *** Brianetta has joined #openttd
22:05:36 <Muxy> and of course in front of the light panel
22:07:34 <Muxy> i have a bug in my monitor
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23:00:43 <Nite_Owl> need to feed - later all
23:01:10 <Eddi|zuHause> why can't he put that in the quit message?
23:09:58 <Xaroth> Eddi|zuHause: why does he think we care? :P
23:10:18 <Eddi|zuHause> why would i know what another person thinks?
23:11:00 <Eddi|zuHause> i'm only borderline psychic, it does not reach around half the world
23:11:34 <Xaroth> [Eddi|zuHause]: i'm only borderline psychotic, it does not reach around half the world << fixed.
23:12:09 <Eddi|zuHause> yes, my psychic ability did reach far enough to see that one coming
23:20:45 *** dragonhorseboy has joined #openttd
23:20:56 <Xaroth> hello horse dragon girl
23:21:12 <Eddi|zuHause> # und der Mensch heißt Mensch,
23:21:13 <Eddi|zuHause> # weil er erinnert, weil er kämpft,
23:21:15 <Eddi|zuHause> # und weil er hofft und liebt,
23:21:16 <Eddi|zuHause> # weil er mitfühlt und vergibt
23:21:28 <dragonhorseboy> just wondering but how difficult could it be to add another rail type thats compactible with standard (not electric) rail?
23:21:36 * dragonhorseboy wonders just WHO xaroth is!
23:22:08 <Xaroth> dragonhorseboy: Look up Lunatic in the dictionary.. is my face.
23:22:14 <Eddi|zuHause> dragonhorseboy: it's a simple newgrf, as long as you use peter's railtypes patch
23:23:11 <Eddi|zuHause> what exactly does a "lunatic" have to do with the moon, anyway?
23:24:10 <Eddi|zuHause> tiny etymological tidbit: the moon is male in all germanic languages, and female in all romanic languages
23:24:56 <dragonhorseboy> hm did you have a link or no eddi?
23:25:15 <Eddi|zuHause> no. i do never have links.
23:25:38 <Eddi|zuHause> i'm also not sure if the patch is actually far enough evolved to support loading newgrfs
23:27:56 <Eddi|zuHause> last discussion i heard was about strategical problems with implementing tunnel entrances
23:28:27 <dragonhorseboy> the reason I asked was because of pondering how not every freaking single locomotive are multi-voltage so it could have had been interesting to have a single wire dc rail and (default erail.grf sprites) heavier wire for ac rail
23:28:47 <dragonhorseboy> diesel could run under both but a dc loco wouldn't be able to go onto the ac rails otherwise
23:28:59 <dragonhorseboy> its only a thought seeing maps can be very huge
23:28:59 <Eddi|zuHause> technically, DC wires need to be bigger
23:29:25 <dragonhorseboy> well at the small scale I can't think how to differ them tho ... maybe put it other way .. dc uses default sprites and ac uses thin single wire?
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23:29:28 <Eddi|zuHause> which is why many system use side-mounted (third rail) systems
23:30:22 <Eddi|zuHause> single wire has not much to do with dc/ac
23:30:28 <dragonhorseboy> eddi..true but there's still quite many dc overhead railroads
23:30:35 <dragonhorseboy> eddi..I know..I was just talking in term of ttdx scale
23:30:48 <Eddi|zuHause> single wire just limits your ability to space out the poles
23:30:57 <Eddi|zuHause> and lower speed limit
23:31:00 <dragonhorseboy> hey maybe thats it...
23:31:41 <Eddi|zuHause> single wire is cheaper, you'll usually find it with short distance slow branch lines
23:31:42 <dragonhorseboy> ac would have one pole per tile and dc would have two .. dunno if that may look too cluttering or not when several lines joins
23:32:43 <Eddi|zuHause> influencing the pole positions is more difficult
23:32:54 <Eddi|zuHause> you need to hack elrail.cpp for that
23:33:11 <dragonhorseboy> there's always just using two different ac systems instead but that might drive the players a bit crazy trying to figure which was which on the screen :S (7500VAC verus 1500VAC for example)
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23:33:26 <dragonhorseboy> I guess some ideas don't seem so plausible all the times
23:34:26 <Eddi|zuHause> it was decided long ago that distinguishing power systems is not the way to go
23:35:02 <Eddi|zuHause> it's taking the realism track too far, even for MB's sense of realism
23:36:33 <dragonhorseboy> at least extra railtypes could be used for these with more certain tho...
23:36:44 <Eddi|zuHause> keep in mind that not only the railtype needs to exist, but the train sets will also need to support it
23:37:02 <Eddi|zuHause> third rail has the highest chance in that department
23:40:42 <dragonhorseboy> narrow gauge electrified (it does make sense, there's even a few historic railroads in swizterland that went electric quite early they never ever had one diesel) ... standard third rail with rapid loading (BART in usa, S-Bahn in german, etc) .. monorail system (look at the transrapid grf to see how they managed to draw 'raised' rails) for short and mild distances
23:41:22 <dragonhorseboy> thats just my own thoughts eddi
23:41:33 <Eddi|zuHause> BART is wide gauge, not standard gauge
23:41:58 <dragonhorseboy> eddi...well its the same principal tho no? its a short distance high capacity train
23:42:27 <Eddi|zuHause> and all of switzerland was electrified pretty fast
23:42:50 <Eddi|zuHause> they a) have insane mountain routes, and b) lack of fossil fuel (especially coal during WWII)
23:43:22 <Eddi|zuHause> they had an electric narrow gauge system here in the (open) coal mines
23:43:44 <dragonhorseboy> yeah and eddi...as weird as it seem there were actually just a selective few shunter steam locomotives refitted for electric boiler heating from overhead ... as a backup in case of coal shortages during world war
23:43:49 <dragonhorseboy> in swizterland that is
23:44:08 <dragonhorseboy> so eddi...well yeah what about it? narrow gauge and narrow gauge electrified .. two rail types for that
23:44:37 <Eddi|zuHause> electric power in switzerland is mainly water power
23:44:47 <Eddi|zuHause> which they have plenty
23:45:16 <Eddi|zuHause> well, it does not really matter what i think
23:45:25 <Eddi|zuHause> the patch is in development
23:45:27 <dragonhorseboy> I still remember reading about how the swizterland government finally "retired" these long-held-in-reserve steam locomotives and let a few museums have them as long as they could reconnect these to the mainlines in a limited window of time
23:45:38 <Eddi|zuHause> and the intended target is support for 16 rail types
23:45:40 <dragonhorseboy> I mean.. 60+ years is a very long time
23:46:03 <dragonhorseboy> E3's I think..forgot.. they were 4-6-0 or 4-8-0 I believe
23:47:12 <Eddi|zuHause> that does not sound like a shunting engine
23:47:14 <dragonhorseboy> they were held for cold war but nothing came of needing them (and btw one wasn't put into the storage but sent oversea to canada a long time ago..its still running in quebec)
23:47:39 <Eddi|zuHause> 4-*-* sounds more like a long distance express engine
23:47:42 <dragonhorseboy> well that was a different topic sorry
23:47:59 <dragonhorseboy> eddi..yeah they had larger wheels for sure
23:48:18 <dragonhorseboy> I think it was quoting as being able to do 110km/h or a bit more
23:49:10 <dragonhorseboy> still...steam locomotives moved into sealed storage adjacent to mainline for the cold war and never ever used up to till several years ago the gov finally decided these had to be cleared out and let the museums have them
23:49:18 <dragonhorseboy> thats got to be crazy a bit
23:50:35 <Eddi|zuHause> no, why? the soviet union had a similar stash of formerly-german steam engines ready to go in poland
23:50:47 <dragonhorseboy> eddi oh and which of unusual steam locomotives .. how about the BR05 (if that was the right class) from DB where it didn't have the usual two pistons but rather each axle had two '
23:51:01 <dragonhorseboy> 'clyinders' on each sides making it a total of 16 small pistons for four drive axles
23:51:29 <dragonhorseboy> nothing connecting the four axles together...each were independent
23:51:44 <dragonhorseboy> hmm let me find that site again..it listed many of these locos and more
23:52:25 <Eddi|zuHause> yes, but individual-axle drives turned out to be very common for electric engines
23:52:34 <dragonhorseboy> true...still..
23:52:53 <Eddi|zuHause> that's what experiments are for
23:53:00 <Eddi|zuHause> finding out what works and what does not
23:53:24 <dragonhorseboy> there was actually one (uk I'm certain) steam locomotive that was built with the left and right pistons not even connected so it could be a bit hard to get the thing started half of the times if the left piston turned forward and the right one turned in reverse instead.. BLOODY ***!
23:53:38 <dragonhorseboy> whoever came up with that idea I had to wonder
23:53:59 <Eddi|zuHause> they wouldn't be experiments if there weren't occasionally outcomes that are junk
23:54:08 <dragonhorseboy> eddi..which of re experinments....
23:55:09 <dragonhorseboy> I haven't read the more-or-less-offical book about the project but you recall that one plan for a modern steam locomotive (looked just like a diesel body on slight higher chassis) but it was eventually neglected to scrap from various levels outside the railroads
23:55:26 <dragonhorseboy> had to wonder what would had happened if it was left to succeed
23:55:40 <dragonhorseboy> I think I recalled the name..let me check
23:56:51 <Eddi|zuHause> i'm going to bed
continue to next day ⏵
