IRC logs for #openttd on OFTC at 2009-06-20
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00:32:38 <PeterT> can someone teach me how to use the alias command?
00:32:48 <PeterT> what it says on the wiki doesnt work
00:36:05 <PeterT> i was trying to make it so when i type "modme" it changes my name to "Peter {MOD}
00:36:22 <PeterT> alias modme name "Peter {MOD}
00:36:38 <PeterT> all it does now is, tell me my name
00:37:28 <glx> try alias modme "name Peter {MOD}"
00:40:08 <PeterT> nope, now it gives me the instructions to name option
00:40:25 <glx> alias modme "name 'Peter {MOD}'"
00:41:42 <PeterT> when you did peter mod was it a
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03:30:22 <AC6000> wow, lotta people in here...
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04:42:49 <Eddi|zuHause> hey, if i save a session in kde, where does the saved file go?
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09:05:46 <petern> frosch123, you implied that the toolbar menu's don't resize?
09:06:26 <Rubidium> not in Y-direction ;)
09:07:15 <frosch123> and not when using SETXY :p
09:08:18 <petern> mind you, using very large fonts highlights a problem with the font renderer
09:08:45 <Rubidium> what is 'very large'?
09:09:09 <Rubidium> font_size UINT64_MAX?
09:12:41 <petern> Rubidium, good luck rendering font_size UINT64_MAX
09:14:37 <Rubidium> shouldn't be that much of a problem; the margins will be so large that they're outside of your viewport
09:15:23 <petern> aa text doesn't work these days
09:15:49 <frosch123> using setxy for aa is cheating anyway
09:18:00 <frosch123> oz wants to experiment with custom fonts and setxy in the canadian trains set. the only thing I can think of them being used is to put thousands of "." characters of different colours to render some image in the details :p
09:18:49 <petern> aa text is broken in 0.7 too. pom te pom
09:18:54 <petern> guess nobody uses it ;)
09:19:46 <frosch123> ah, that aa, so not the aa of aalib
09:23:05 <frosch123> didn't dv created a new ottd-useful just for enabling aa?
09:23:37 <petern> that was for better hinting
09:27:24 <rortom> was cargodest merged already?
09:29:00 <petern> bitmap.palette_mode is returning FT_PIXEL_MODE_MONO for me
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09:35:34 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: peter1138 * r16602 /trunk/src/fontcache.cpp: -Fix (r13831): Antialiased fonts broken; check pixel_mode instead of palette_mode. (Why did it work at some point?)
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09:52:39 <fonsinchen> SLE_CONDNULL(1, 0, 120) <--- this means that in savegames after version 120 this field isn't present, right? So basically this is a hidden savegame bump ... nasty.
09:53:37 <Rubidium> it doesn't bump the savegame ;) nothing changes for any trunk/0.7 savegame ;)
09:54:05 <fonsinchen> but for any patches bumping the savegame it leads to mysterious errors.
09:54:25 <fonsinchen> I just spend an hour tracking that problem.
09:54:46 <fonsinchen> cargodist has a savegame version of 170
09:55:07 <fonsinchen> So if I saved a game before that change and try to load it afterwards it doesn't work
09:55:08 <petern> ahh, you're messing around like that
09:55:25 <fonsinchen> even though neither me nor you have "officially" bumped the savegame
09:56:11 <petern> it wouldn't make any difference
09:56:33 <fonsinchen> If there had been a savegame bump in trunk I would have noticed.
09:57:08 <SmatZ> so do you want us to bump savegame version for you when this happens?
09:57:18 <petern> there's no need to change it in trunk because there is no difference at the current savegame version
09:58:09 <fonsinchen> Well, at least I have learned something.
09:58:22 <SmatZ> that's always good thing
10:00:05 <Rubidium> someone has had too much time
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10:13:19 <petern> have we got enough for 0.7.2 yet? ;)
10:13:42 <Rubidium> you want to make a release for each commit?
10:14:08 <petern> thought there was some other stuff too
10:16:59 <Rubidium> unless you should know more bugfixes that ought to be backported
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11:25:51 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: smatz * r16603 /trunk/src/ (map.cpp map_type.h settings.cpp table/settings.h): -Codechange: enumify map size limits (based on a patch by Bilbo)
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13:36:05 <jeng> I wonder where there "destroy everything" cheat has gone in 0.7.x.
13:37:41 <frosch123> nowhere, it's still ctrl-alt-c
13:55:30 <jeng> heh. my inability to wikisearch shall be remembered forever ;)
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15:06:16 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: alberth * r16604 /trunk/src/ (fontcache.cpp gfx_type.h): -Codechange: Use FS_BEGIN for iterating over fonts.
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15:23:51 <Alberth> LOL: Trying to install Fedora 11: 'your file system must be ext4'. Hmm, ok (switching to ext4 in the menu). Fedora 11: 'cannot boot from ext4, please select a different format'.
15:24:43 <Rubidium> that's a good way to prevent bugreports for other packages than the installer
15:25:40 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: alberth * r16605 /trunk/src/ (fontcache.cpp gfx_func.h): -Codechange: Move ASCII_LETTERSTART to the right source file.
15:27:00 <frosch123> so it forces you to setup partitions for /boot, /usr, /home, /tmp, /opt and / ?
15:27:59 <Alberth> /boot and / (where /boot should be ext3 and / should be ext 4)
15:28:30 <Alberth> and I have a /home, but that is not required.
15:29:18 <Alberth> yeah, it saves me copying my own data with each upgrade :)
15:30:46 <welshdragon> can i ask for some help with a non openttd problem?
15:34:30 <welshdragon> i've somewhat solved the issue
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15:49:18 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: alberth * r16606 /trunk/src/ (autoreplace_gui.cpp gfx_func.h gfx_type.h): -Doc: Added/fixed doxygen comments.
15:50:19 <PeterT> how do i make it so that when i open xchat, it automatically loads #openttd, #openttdcoop
15:51:46 <welshdragon> there is a setting
15:53:11 <welshdragon> i'm not on my desktop
15:53:21 <welshdragon> poke me in a few hours
15:53:44 <PeterT> ill figure it out by then
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15:57:28 <glx> dunno it was just a suggestion
16:07:26 <jeng> I enabled "Show reserved tracks" in Advanced Settings, but I do not see a noticable difference. Where can I?
16:09:35 <jeng> don't tell me it's not implemented for maglev ;)
16:10:00 <Aali> but its not very visible
16:10:16 <jeng> ah I saw something.. track just went darker
16:10:18 <Aali> reserved tracks look very similar to normal ones
16:11:19 <jeng> perhaps in a future version, a complete color translucently superimposed would work better
16:11:32 <Eddi|zuHause> the problem is not the recolouring
16:11:46 <Eddi|zuHause> the problem is that the majority of the maglev track is not actually track
16:11:51 <Eddi|zuHause> so there is nothing to recolour
16:12:23 <jeng> that's why I would recommend to draw an independent fullcolor line above the track
16:12:38 <Eddi|zuHause> this can easily be solved by replacing the maglev tracks
16:12:49 <glx> there's a grf for that :)
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16:22:18 <andythenorth> grr. I have more than the optimum amount of Neko and Brantwan in my grf threads :|
16:25:48 <Eddi|zuHause> what's a Brantwan?
16:26:09 <andythenorth> Aali: well it's nice to have users. So none might be a bit harsh
16:26:35 <andythenorth> Eddi|zuHause: look in the recent pages of FIRS or HEQS threads, you'll find out ;)
16:26:53 <Eddi|zuHause> do i really want to...
16:32:32 <andythenorth> trying to add *bigger* vehicle noises to HEQS
16:35:14 <frosch123> experiemt with different types and amounts of leading and trailing whitespace for the filename
16:37:14 <andythenorth> frosch123: different *types* of whitespace??
16:37:22 <frosch123> though I have no idea what is the state of grfcodec wrt. to that. there were versions which appended the character 13 of the windows-newline to the filename
16:37:32 <frosch123> andythenorth: like tabs and spaces and such :)
16:46:45 <andythenorth> frosch123: well I've tried some variations, but no joy :(
16:47:17 <andythenorth> interesting - renum seems to have *it's* preferred idea of what whitespace to apply
16:48:03 <andythenorth> probably driver error on my side
16:48:15 <andythenorth> I'll check my code in later if anyone else wants to try ;)
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17:51:11 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: translators * r16607 /trunk/src/lang/ (estonian.txt russian.txt):
17:51:11 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: -Update: WebTranslator2 update to 2009-06-20 17:50:41
17:51:12 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: estonian - 1 changed by lible (1)
17:51:12 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: russian - 31 fixed, 40 changed by Lone Wolf (71)
17:52:14 <Svish> any tips on how I can prevent industries from disappearing??
17:52:35 <Svish> i transport their goods like crazy, but suddenly they just... dissappear...
17:53:01 <Rubidium> a) don't use industries that have a resource limit
17:53:27 <Rubidium> b) don't use industries that, by code, can only decrease in volume (i.e. oil wells)
17:53:29 <Svish> and where do I see what limit they have...
17:53:33 <Eddi|zuHause> depends on if you are using newgrfs
17:53:57 <Svish> some forests just died here... would think they were kind of renewable? :p
17:54:10 <Rubidium> c) disable the "magic bulldozer" cheat as that also allows towns and AIs to destroy industries
17:54:35 <Svish> towns will distroy their own industries?
17:54:49 <Hirundo> some forests disappear... others appear... isn't that *realistic* ? /runs and hides
17:55:04 <Svish> I guess that is true...
17:55:14 <Rubidium> after all, Lehman Brothers still exists ;)
17:55:16 <jeng> d) use cheat to increase production ;)
17:55:31 <Svish> is there a... non-cheat way of increasin production?
17:55:39 <Svish> like... what decides the production?
17:56:42 <Rubidium> especially the game mechanics (or how is it called?) section thereof
17:58:25 <jeng> I wonder - and this is also true in the real world - why are oil carriers, or anything fluid in general, cylindric?
17:59:12 <Alberth> max volume vs min surface
17:59:51 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: rubidium * r16608 /extra/masterserver_updater/ (4 files in 2 dirs): [MSU] -Change: kill idle connections instead of waiting for the OS timing them out (2 minutes vs 5 days)
17:59:52 <jeng> yet they don't do it for ore
18:00:35 <jeng> but you'd still get more volume for less surface
18:01:02 <Eddi|zuHause> it's different for open containers
18:01:07 <Alberth> yes, but for some reason it is not optimal in our economy
18:01:41 <jeng> also, if a maglev browses around with 643km/h, small particles like ore or grain in *open* containers would surely fly away ;-)
18:02:13 <Eddi|zuHause> that's why no amount of ore or grain has ever been transported with a maglev
18:02:54 <Eddi|zuHause> and "open" does not mean it is open during transport, but more that it is "open-able"
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18:03:17 <frosch123> there the grain will not fly away
18:03:31 <Eddi|zuHause> with modern hoppers, top is openable for loading, and bottom is openable for unloading
18:03:33 <Alberth> no air-resistance either
18:03:42 <Eddi|zuHause> that is difficult to do with round objects
18:04:19 <Svish> hm... why does it say that i have transported only 71%, when as far as I can see I grab everything that comes out of it?
18:05:00 <Eddi|zuHause> "transported" is the average station rating during the last month
18:05:20 <Eddi|zuHause> getting 67% station rating is "normal"
18:05:22 <jeng> Svish: it seems to depend on the time cargo is lying around
18:05:23 <Svish> so it doesn't have anything to do with how much I have transported?
18:05:27 <Eddi|zuHause> getting 100% is next to impossible
18:05:36 <jeng> Eddi|zuHause: oh you can get 98% fairly reliable
18:05:47 <Svish> does nearby towns affect production?
18:05:49 <Eddi|zuHause> well, the higher the rating, the more you get to transport
18:05:55 <Svish> like, how big they are, how much they hate you, etc.?
18:06:04 <Svish> jeng: how do you get it up to that?
18:06:10 <Eddi|zuHause> a statue in the town will get you +10% station rating
18:06:12 <jeng> Svish: to always have a train there
18:06:24 <andythenorth> new version of HEQS released :)
18:06:27 <Eddi|zuHause> the exact formula can be found in the wiki
18:06:51 <Eddi|zuHause> you get bonuses for fast vehicles, and for new vehicles
18:06:52 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: alberth * r16609 /trunk/src/widget.cpp: -Codechange: Introduction of widget sizes and offsets used while drawing.
18:06:53 <jeng> Svish: that's expensive however
18:07:28 <andythenorth> Brantwan is reporting 20mph > 22 mph. That's a bug report I'm not going to look into 9.9
18:07:49 <Wolfsherz> is there a way to make the signals better viewable?
18:09:57 <frosch123> though likely they do not have suitable ottd-specific one-way-pbs-signal graphics
18:10:31 <Hirundo> andythenorth: since when can articulated vehicles overtake in the first place?
18:11:29 <Wolfsherz> well, i do find the standard-signals nice, but i use the german signals because they suit well to the dbsetxl, but all signals are just too small to see imo
18:15:18 <Svish> is there any official replacement for the old transport tycoon graphics files and such?
18:15:35 <Eddi|zuHause> there is opengfx, but it is unfinished
18:17:13 <jeng> I now tried "Show reserved tracks" with monorail instead, where it is more visible, but still it only reserves one segment at a time instead of the entire junction.
18:17:55 <petern> then you're not using pbs signals
18:19:44 <Svish> yeah, the show reserved tracks works nicely here. but they kind of brake (or behave weirdly) if I mix them with regular ones in a block (that what you call it?)
18:20:54 <Eddi|zuHause> well, do not mix them.
18:21:29 <andythenorth> petern: well they might slow down no?
18:21:39 <andythenorth> incidentally, i before e?
18:22:03 <petern> actually they behave as expect when you mix them, just people don't expect that, heh
18:22:13 <petern> or in some other places arbitrarily
18:22:32 <andythenorth> (making dinner for two, *and* svn up-ing an OTTD checkout. Hmm, can I make sense of C++?)
18:22:38 <andythenorth> maybe a beer would help
18:22:55 <andythenorth> doesn't help nfo
18:23:13 <Alberth> except remembering how it helped the next morning may be hard :)
18:24:00 <DaleStan> Or maybe enough wasn't used.
18:24:34 <andythenorth> Alberth: there's a varaction 2 for that. you just need to look in the wiki. the whole wiki. I promise it's there
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18:25:26 <Alberth> I wouldn't know, I never drink beer
18:26:31 <andythenorth> Apparently there are no tools available
18:26:40 <andythenorth> I thought there were some. Must have gone missing
18:26:46 <andythenorth> Can anyone see the tools?
18:27:01 <andythenorth> Might as well give up then.
18:27:11 <Svish> is it smart to use the full load stuff on passengers too?
18:27:48 <andythenorth> grr svn: Can't connect to host 'svn.openttd.org': No route to host
18:28:11 <Eddi|zuHause> Svish: usually not, as you transport passengers both ways, but each side is not producing passengers at an equal rate
18:28:35 <Eddi|zuHause> so while the train takes ages to fill up on one side, the passengers pile up hopelessly on the other side
18:29:26 * SmatZ is imagining "pile of hopeless passengers"
18:29:26 <Eddi|zuHause> you can make use of timetables, to have a train waiting constantly
18:29:59 <Eddi|zuHause> but the better alternative is to install a local road/tram transport network
18:31:03 <Eddi|zuHause> SmatZ: problem with your interpretation is that it would need to be an adjective there, but i used an adverb, so it references "to pile" (the verb) instead of "passenger" (the noun)
18:32:01 <Svish> when trains are sharing orders, will they share timetables too?
18:32:36 <SmatZ> Eddi|zuHause: I just took random words from your message and imagined them
18:33:06 <Eddi|zuHause> Svish: there is a patch that helps synchronizing the timetables
18:34:09 <SmatZ> timetables are bound to orders
18:34:17 <SmatZ> but maybe I misunderstood your question
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18:35:33 <Svish> seems like they are synced when orders are shared
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18:45:28 <Eddi|zuHause> yes, but you cannot equally space them apart when you add more vehicles
18:45:42 <Eddi|zuHause> and you cannot synchronise timetables of non-shared orders
19:24:12 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: rubidium * r16610 /trunk/src/lang/english.txt: -Fix: remove rogue space before '?'
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19:31:36 <Eddi|zuHause> why do these spaces always have to go rogue?
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19:39:01 <Alberth> any character can go rogue, there are just many spaces in the language files.
19:44:45 <petern> Eddi|zuHause, you mean rogue ?
19:46:17 <Eddi|zuHause> Alberth: yeah, that was a big oversight of mr. morse, back when he evaluated the frequency of the characters
19:46:48 <Eddi|zuHause> he did not consider space to be a character back then
19:47:15 <Eddi|zuHause> which resulted in a not optimal code
19:47:59 <Alberth> nodoubtitwascommonpracticenottotransferspacesacrossthewire.
19:48:43 <petern> thk fk vey dnt hv txtspk bk thn
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20:04:26 <PeterT> can i get some help with aliases?
20:04:45 <PeterT> i type alias modme "name 'Peter {MOD}'"
20:04:57 <PeterT> then it works all the time, until i close openttd
20:07:30 <PeterT> autoexec? what does that stand for
20:08:49 <glx> but I think autoexec is the one you want to edit
20:09:19 <PeterT> yes, but when does it auto execute? and what?
20:10:09 <PeterT> oh, i get it, i make the autoexec with the alias command, then it will do it.
20:10:25 <PeterT> is there such thing as a shared scripts folder?
20:11:04 <glx> same as other openttd dirs IIRC
20:11:19 <PeterT> thanks, gonna make that now
20:23:52 <PeterT> with what command do i start a script?
20:26:51 <PeterT> it says, "Usage: 'exec <script> <?>"
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20:50:54 <PeterT> what happend to the autoclean_novehicles command? it doesnt work
20:51:57 <Rubidium> it never was a command
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21:00:02 <Yexo> I remember a patch that added something like that
21:00:20 <Yexo> but I don't know who wrote it or what it was called
21:00:53 <Rubidium> Yexo: it is/was peter "I have a patch for that" n
21:01:12 <Rubidium> it's just not a command in any way
21:01:22 <Rubidium> so trying to play with it as a command won't work
21:02:43 <Rubidium> it's actually also in 0.7
21:03:46 <PeterT> im looking at the wiki
21:03:59 <PeterT> Feature: Add autoclean_novehicles setting which will, when autoclean_companies is true, remove any company with no vehicles and no active client after autoclean_novehicles-months (r15848)
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21:06:01 <PeterT> setting !autoclean_novehicles 1
21:06:33 <dragonhorseboy> is that like to flush out companies that doesn't even have one single vehicle owned?
21:06:50 <dragonhorseboy> hm didn't know autoclean had that
21:06:51 <PeterT> i hate when people make companies and dont use them
21:07:01 <Potatoe> Question. How can I fetch the town name of a given town? (http://pastebin.com/d4d385109) I can't wrap my head around the code in viewport.. it makes no sense to me :\
21:07:15 <dragonhorseboy> glx...ever heard of SPECULATE? heh .. i guess some people can be a bit thick th
21:07:53 <dragonhorseboy> like I thought..thick to even think
21:08:00 <dragonhorseboy> are they going play? if not..stop creating a company
21:08:08 <Potatoe> Any programmers here?
21:08:21 <PeterT> whats the best 4 way junction, for speed (PAX)
21:08:24 <glx> now you can even create a company without disconnect
21:08:36 <dragonhorseboy> but anyway I was wanting to ask .. are there any grfs to increase costs in the game (not the vehicle ones alone)
21:08:37 <Rubidium> Potatoe: where do you want the town name?
21:08:55 <Potatoe> rubi: I just want it as a string to send to a user
21:08:56 <Rubidium> because this only tells the viewport the ID of the town and it's population
21:09:02 <dragonhorseboy> peterT..just not a flat junction...and no S curve .. simple enough? :P
21:09:16 <PeterT> is there a name for one like that?
21:09:20 <Rubidium> Potatoe: take a look at the tab completion code in network/network_chat_gui.cpp
21:09:20 <glx> no easy way for that Potatoe
21:09:23 <Potatoe> yes.. how can I fetch it from elsewhere when I have a pointer to the town object
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21:11:43 <Rubidium> glx: that can be found in the tab completetion code ;)
21:12:20 <glx> indeed, but as I said it's not an easy way ;)
21:13:41 <dragonhorseboy> or at least how difficult could it be to write a nfo file to add 'construction cost: very high' to difficulty? heh :p
21:14:09 <PeterT> there is a difficutly setting for that
21:14:34 <dragonhorseboy> petert..but does it even have 'very high'?
21:14:48 <Rubidium> dragonhorseboy: about as difficult as writing a nfo that adds internet browsing to OpenTTD
21:15:35 <dragonhorseboy> rubidium..meh..sometimes I wonder if there's just no way to quit having $200M in the 1990's even if you avoid creating any planes or large express trains
21:15:56 <dragonhorseboy> like as if why are most cost always seeming too low even with difficulty jacked up (except for dbsetxl's purchase prices alone oddly)
21:16:23 <dragonhorseboy> rubidium...railroads didn't start in the 1990s did they?
21:16:29 <dragonhorseboy> else where were the 2-6-0's?
21:16:52 <Rubidium> railroad companies did
21:17:11 <Rubidium> there are even transport companies that started in the 1990s
21:17:27 <dragonhorseboy> show me a 4000+miles owning company with town passenger service that started in the 1990s? ^-^
21:17:55 <Xaroth> there's probably a few in the US
21:18:18 <Rubidium> dragonhorseboy: prorail?
21:18:19 <dragonhorseboy> xaroth...not really...its either tourist trains or amtrak/commuter for most longer routes
21:18:46 <Rubidium> prorail started in 1995
21:18:55 <Xaroth> that's not even 20 years ago
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21:21:42 <petern> i have a patch for that
21:23:17 <dragonhorseboy> pom te pom? heh
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21:55:20 <Potatoe> how can I extract the player name from a user through the "NetworkClientSocket" he's connected with?
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22:07:10 <Rubidium> Potatoe: get the client info from the socket and get the name from there? Anyhow, don't expect more replies from me as I'm gone ;)
22:07:29 <Rubidium> (my IRC client will stay though)
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22:11:48 <jeng> Hm. What must amount to a great-profit map is when there are two places on the opposite of the end of the map, each having a Steelmill and an Iron Ore Mine next to each other.
22:14:49 <Alberth> passengers service with airplanes is also good
22:16:24 <Eddi|zuHause> jeng: depending on speed, there is an optimum distance where profit does not increase anymore
22:16:58 <jeng> well according to "Cargo Payment Rates", the payment is per distance per speed
22:26:42 <Eddi|zuHause> yes. but there is a maximum delivery time
22:26:58 <Eddi|zuHause> which unfortunately the graph does not tell...
22:29:50 <Eddi|zuHause> depends on cargo
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23:22:59 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: belugas * r16611 /trunk/src/autoreplace_gui.cpp:
23:22:59 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: -Doc Fix(r16606): "then" became "the" and now is gone.
23:22:59 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: In other words, fix a comment ;)
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23:48:05 <Eddi|zuHause> "true since febuary but i only use to give ideas and i only posted on this is my third thread" <- omg, he made 60 posts across 3 threads?
23:49:17 <jeng> Does it matter how many squares a station ("coverage area highlight") touches of an industry?
23:49:45 <jeng> ...on the cargo, I guess?
23:49:52 <Eddi|zuHause> no, on the industry
23:50:09 <Eddi|zuHause> e.g. with oil refineries, only few of the tiles actually accept oil
23:50:19 <Eddi|zuHause> so you have to cover these exact tiles
23:50:30 <jeng> same goes with cargo outputs (i.e. wells)
23:50:43 <jeng> but once it does appear in the "accepted:" list, does it matter?
23:50:51 <Eddi|zuHause> or the food processing plant in PBI has two tiles which accept 4/8 grain, so you have to cover both
23:51:19 <Eddi|zuHause> anything above 8/8 does not matter
23:52:05 <Eddi|zuHause> possibly a future implementation of cargo destinations could make use of these values, though
23:52:27 <Eddi|zuHause> in lack of a proper measurement of the "size" of an industry
23:53:22 <jeng> hm, what is the implication of a “4/8” accept?
23:53:38 <Eddi|zuHause> like with houses
23:53:44 <jeng> a 4/8 *supply* would mean something to me
23:54:03 <Eddi|zuHause> if you have below 8/8, the cargo is not accepted
23:54:42 <jeng> But if you have below 8/8, it would not show up in the "Accepts:" list, would it.
continue to next day ⏵
