IRC logs for #openttd on OFTC at 2009-04-25
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00:00:14 <petern> Belugas, Belugas Belugas
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01:19:47 <LebQzz> so you guys also work on the 16bpp?
01:43:15 <Belugas> the very first jam of the non-official OpenTTD-Dev band
01:53:52 <glx> now compose music replacement :)
01:57:01 <Belugas> meeeeh... let say we had a bit of a nostalgic session :)
01:57:12 <Belugas> would not say it fit TTD :)
01:57:39 <Belugas> i found out i did not record the whole session, just bits
02:04:16 * Belugas goes to sleep, happy as can be
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02:48:22 <Pikka> so why in 0.7.0 do I get "too close to another industry" even when "industries of the same type can be built close to each other" is turned on? :)
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07:47:56 <planetmaker> morning people, morning TrueBrain :)
07:50:19 <TrueBrain> There was a party upstairs yesterday .... I didn't went as I wanted to get out of bed early
07:50:33 <TrueBrain> but I feel as I went ... couldn't sleep till late ... and bleh
07:51:17 <planetmaker> he :P Could have gone then as well... :P
07:52:22 <TrueBrain> yesterday I also realised that I find Python one of the most annoying languages I ever worked with :)
07:52:43 <TrueBrain> well, besides the obvious of Java, VB, and ASP
07:53:10 <Alberth> TrueBrain: any particular reason why you hate Python?
07:53:19 <TrueBrain> Alberth: not hate, I find it annoying
07:53:25 <TrueBrain> mostly because you do scoping with tabs
07:53:42 <TrueBrain> sometimes you want to quickly enable or disable a piece of code
07:53:50 <TrueBrain> now I need to change tabs in order to make the code working again!
07:54:02 <TrueBrain> which makes it almost impossible to work on any python script via vim
07:54:09 <Alberth> you need a block-comment key in your editor
07:54:12 <TrueBrain> and it makes scoping VERY unclear
07:54:33 <TrueBrain> I often make minor mistakes by putting a tab wrong .. that is just silly :)
07:55:49 <TrueBrain> Alberth: such key won't help: I often want to disable a piece of this:
07:56:05 <TrueBrain> I want to keep int(a)
07:56:18 <TrueBrain> means 3 comments, and one tab remove .. the latter often goes wrong :)
07:57:15 <Alberth> I find Python one of the better languages, I guess I found a way to work with the tab stuff in vim
07:57:29 <TrueBrain> the longer I work with it, the more that annoys me :)
07:57:41 <Alberth> I'd probably copy the int(a) line to before the try:
07:57:41 <TrueBrain> that and the fact that 1 != "1" :p
07:58:08 <Alberth> That's one of the things that annoys me in Perl :p
07:58:13 <TrueBrain> but okay, I dislike ruby even more ... 'a 1' is the same as 'a(1)' .. which is one of the worst possible statements you can make :p
07:58:37 <Alberth> it is normal in functional languages, but true, I find it unreadable too
07:58:40 <TrueBrain> and I run into tons of utf-8 problems with Python, which I can't seem to understand :(
07:59:01 <TrueBrain> I now simple put .encode("utf-8") behind EVERYTHING :p
07:59:14 * Alberth is staying in the safe ASCII sub-set :)
07:59:41 <TrueBrain> Alberth: either way, truth there, I don't know a better alternative to Python ... PHP sucks more, Ruby is not an option, Perl .. brrr, ASP no tnx .. so it is the best of the worst ;)
07:59:51 <TrueBrain> well .. WT3 forces me to make it utf-8 ready :(
08:00:39 <Alberth> Yeah, one day I must also bite the Unicode bullet I am afraid, Unicode will not go away
08:02:39 <TrueBrain> so I guess I shouldn't complain .. I don't know anything better :p
08:04:39 <TrueBrain> although I wish Python had an #include <> like statement ... import sometimes doesn't cut it
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09:03:53 <TrueBrain> petern: we don't support non-opensource standards :p
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09:10:22 <TrueBrain> nice thing to know: when you do 'hg commit' you can change things in your WC, but it is not 'committed' (while you are in the log-edit dialog, that is)
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09:12:25 <Pikka> you can change things in your WC, eh?
09:13:43 <TrueBrain> only in your world I guess :)
09:13:49 <Rubidium> TrueBrain: subversion has that 'feature' too
09:13:59 <TrueBrain> Rubidium: I always wondered about it .. now I noticed it :p
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10:06:34 <CIA-9> OpenTTD: alberth * r16139 /trunk/src/graph_gui.cpp: -Codechange: Adding/completing widget number enums of several graph windows.
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11:01:21 <TrueBrain> I official hate UTF-8 :)
11:01:24 <TrueBrain> wait ... I already did :p
11:13:14 <Xaroth> what's wrong with it this time then?
11:14:14 <Forked> or wtf-8 as I've seen people call it..
11:15:20 <TrueBrain> Xaroth: it sucks to handle systems that have both ISO-8859-1 and UTF-8 files
11:15:31 <TrueBrain> but I finally found a nice and clean method to solve it ... I hope :)
11:16:15 <TrueBrain> pure UTF-8, most likely
11:16:25 <TrueBrain> combination of ISO-8859-1, UTF-8 and ASCII ... not so much
11:17:28 <Vikthor> well but that's not entirely fault of UTF-8
11:17:52 <petern> well you're not meant to mix them :p
11:17:59 <petern> and of course plain 7 bit ascii is no problem :D
11:18:18 <TrueBrain> I was running revision 1 of our SVN into WT3
11:18:21 <petern> at least most of the iso-8859-1 values are the same in utf-8
11:18:23 <TrueBrain> which turned out to use ISO-8859-1 :(
11:18:37 <TrueBrain> just because I can, mostly :p
11:18:52 <TrueBrain> nah, the SVN history have shown a good test-case for all kinds of weirdness
11:19:07 <TrueBrain> if WT3 can import r1 to HEAD, I am pretty sure it is ready for everything that you guys might fire on it :p
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11:26:45 <TrueBrain> okay, maybe it is just Python who fucks up :p
11:26:56 <TrueBrain> when I follow a simple encode/decode example, it still fails :p
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11:59:49 <CIA-9> OpenTTD: alberth * r16140 /trunk/src/ (widget.cpp widget_type.h): -Codechange: Call a function while contructing a widget tree.
12:01:05 <CIA-9> OpenTTD: alberth * r16141 /trunk/src/graph_gui.cpp: -Codechange: Adding nested widgets to remaining graph windows.
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12:22:47 <TrueBrain> where is that Rubidium when you need him :(
12:25:48 <Pikka> no, that's where he is when you need him
12:25:56 <Pikka> if he's not there, then you don't need him. qed.
12:26:09 <TrueBrain> but I need him now :(
12:26:17 <TrueBrain> means he is enjoying a nice holiday :)
12:26:43 <Pikka> shortly he will come back
12:26:48 <Pikka> and then you will no longer need him
12:26:55 <TrueBrain> I WILL ALWAYS NEED HIM!@
12:29:01 <Pikka> I dunno, you might scare him off :D
12:31:06 <TrueBrain> well .. time to do some shopping!!! :)
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12:43:21 <TrueBrain> oeh, and the good news is that it seems I finally got the whole encoding and decoding of utf-8 under control :) Yeah!
12:47:28 <Rubidium> TrueBrain: does Enschede qualify as an answer?
12:48:17 <Pikka> see, Rubidium is back from portugal and TrueBrain doesn't need him any more. :]
12:50:49 <Rubidium> Pikka: never been to Portugal
12:50:58 <Rubidium> been to somewhere that once belonged to Portugal though
12:51:27 <Rubidium> (and then belonged to the Dutch and now doesn't belong to neither)
12:52:09 <Pikka> for 38.11 kB, that picture sure took a long time to load
12:56:30 <Rubidium> Pikka: from 1636-1639 it was practically Portuguese, from 1641-1857 it was practically Dutch and since 1996 it's basically a museum
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14:55:35 <TrueBrain> what a boring day :p
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15:06:54 <planetmaker> TrueBrain: let's make the day more exciting :) Could you trigger a compile of the infrastructure sharing patch please?
15:07:06 <TrueBrain> planetmaker: I was just typing something to you
15:07:22 <TrueBrain> planetmaker: I considered it, but I won't be adding a 'comment' field for gender and cases
15:07:31 <TrueBrain> if you have a gender which is not clear by the name, you did something very wrong :p
15:07:40 <TrueBrain> I mean ... m ... f ... n ... p ....
15:07:43 <TrueBrain> how hard can it be? :p
15:07:51 <planetmaker> plural is not a gender
15:07:54 <TrueBrain> I don't see what a comment could ever clearify ... :p
15:08:05 <TrueBrain> might not be a gender, but for sure it is 100% clear what your intensions are with it :)
15:08:21 <planetmaker> for a non-inaugurated person clearly not, I think
15:08:32 <TrueBrain> you have to be a real morron to not understand that :)
15:08:39 <TrueBrain> I don't think you want such person in your translator team ;)
15:08:49 <TrueBrain> either way, a post in the forum or what ever should be plenty :)
15:10:27 <planetmaker> oh, I think, german genders are m-w-n-p :P - it was not named f ;)
15:10:34 <planetmaker> but that's completely irrelevant
15:12:33 <Xaroth> the tars openttd downloads, they are extracted during runtime?
15:12:46 <TrueBrain> no, you have to go offline first
15:12:55 <TrueBrain> is there any other possibility? :)
15:13:07 <Yexo> there is no need to extract those tars
15:13:10 <Xaroth> they are re-extracted -EVERY- time they are needed?
15:13:23 <TrueBrain> Xaroth: 'tar's are just small filesystems
15:13:28 <TrueBrain> so they are never extracted
15:13:28 <Yexo> do you actually know what a tar file is?
15:13:33 <TrueBrain> the filepointer is put in the file
15:13:33 <Xaroth> I am aware of the concept tar files
15:13:52 <Xaroth> I just had to confirm that
15:13:58 <TrueBrain> how stupid do you think we are? :)
15:14:48 <TrueBrain> the tars only have the small overhead of indexing them at startup
15:14:58 <TrueBrain> (well, the files in them)
15:15:16 <TrueBrain> then the Fios of OpenTTD takes over, and the rest of the code thinks they are true files on the system
15:19:01 <TrueBrain> hmm .. those good old days 'tars' were called 'wads' :p
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15:20:41 <TrueBrain> you don't know wads? :)
15:21:51 <Rubidium> that's all after tar was 'introduced'
15:21:54 <frosch123> those were the files with the texture you coud open worldcreator or so
15:22:05 <TrueBrain> Rubidium: I hope you realise I was joking?
15:22:54 <petern> wads had non-unique filenames
15:24:16 <petern> which were all 8 characters, heh
15:24:47 <TrueBrain> at least someone who knows his history :)
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15:31:47 <planetmaker> hm... I need some pointers. We have a machine with two dedicated servers running on it. One game advertizes, the othere doesn't.
15:33:46 <planetmaker> the games can both be connected to.
15:33:50 <TrueBrain> you are giving more clues then I do!
15:34:17 <planetmaker> I thought the port for advertizing is always the same, isn't it?
15:34:30 <TrueBrain> more a question if the server was running on an other port :p
15:34:52 <planetmaker> the servers are running on 3981 and 3982. Both work and I can connect and play
15:35:22 <planetmaker> one is the coopetition server you find in the server list.
15:35:58 <planetmaker> the other is the infrastructure sharing server... but that doesn't touch those parts at all.
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15:41:34 <planetmaker> hm... the old wwottdgd/2 server on 3979 works, too...
15:44:26 <TrueBrain> planetmaker: are you sure you advertised?
15:44:44 <planetmaker> uhm... can I stop that from happening?
15:44:51 <planetmaker> sorry, if it's a silly question
15:44:56 <planetmaker> will check the config
15:44:56 <TrueBrain> so I think you can, yes ;)
15:46:10 <planetmaker> it sais true for that option in the config file
15:46:16 <TrueBrain> then restart the server
15:46:51 <planetmaker> hm... yes. I restarted it on 3979 and now it works. Why ever
15:47:05 <TrueBrain> you also restarted 3982
15:47:24 <TrueBrain> 3981 is still not online
15:47:33 <planetmaker> yes. I changed 81 to 79
15:47:41 <TrueBrain> then it worked like 5 minutes ago
15:48:16 <TrueBrain> 15:44:22 3979 registered itself to MSU
15:48:18 <planetmaker> 3981 was the one with issues
15:48:34 <planetmaker> changing the config to 3979 seems to have helped
15:48:42 <TrueBrain> I think a restart was the thing that helped
15:48:52 <planetmaker> though I don't understand why. But yeah :)
15:49:02 <TrueBrain> UDP packets can get lost .. happens
15:49:16 <TrueBrain> that is why it retries a few times
15:51:34 *** ChanServ sets mode: +o Bjarni
15:54:42 <TrueBrain> okay ... most WT3 changes are done ... pff ...
15:55:39 <Bjarni> do you have a list of changes?
15:55:45 <TrueBrain> yes, it is on my wall
15:55:51 <Bjarni> or will it be too long to mention
15:56:03 * Bjarni looks at TrueBrain's wall
15:59:50 <qkr> can any progamer help me with signals? I have read the guides on your wiki and I still can't do what I want
16:00:25 <Yexo> nobody can as long as you don't state what you want :p
16:01:35 <qkr> I have mainline with 2 tracks, and sideline with 1 track, I want to join the mainline so that a) the mainline has priority b) train coming from side will choose the free track, I want to know can this be done using PathBasedSignals?
16:02:11 <Yexo> priorities can't be done with only pathsignals
16:02:31 <Bjarni> you can if you use presignals, but it would take a bit extra space
16:02:56 <Bjarni> and it's pseudo priority
16:02:59 <TrueBrain> I doubt mixing PBS and presignals can result in anything good :)
16:03:43 <qkr> if I have just 2 tracks mixing into one, I know how to make a priority and it's pretty simple, it's just 3 to 2 is too complex for me
16:04:02 <TrueBrain> welcome to the game :)
16:04:13 <Bjarni> it's actually an interesting task
16:04:26 <TrueBrain> also, the wiki has a few entries on such things
16:04:27 <Yexo> just make the priority for both lines, so the presignals where the train is waiting is pointing to two exit signals instead of only one
16:04:33 <Bjarni> you beat me to point to the forum
16:05:08 <planetmaker> [18:02] <TrueBrain> I doubt mixing PBS and presignals can result in anything good :) <-- it allows to build prios over sections with double bridges :)
16:05:30 <planetmaker> but most people won't need that
16:05:59 <TrueBrain> planetmaker: btw, compile finished
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16:06:10 <TrueBrain> (like 10 minutes ago, but okay :p)
16:06:41 <TrueBrain> so you want a non-complex solution .. I don't think that is going to happen with the current signals OpenTTD offers :)
16:07:15 <qkr> then lets improve that, add easier signals :)
16:07:27 <Bjarni> qkr: ok, what should the signals do?
16:07:35 <Bjarni> and how do you plan to code it?
16:08:50 <qkr> I haven't thought about the details, I just thought it should be simpler than this
16:09:13 <Bjarni> then start thinking about details
16:09:28 <Yexo> pathsignals are easy, but there are no easy solutions for complex problems like yours
16:12:31 <qkr> well I might try to think of some solution...I guess it has been tried before?
16:12:46 <TrueBrain> as I said: check the forums :)
16:23:17 <qkr> well damn, I think I found just what I am looking for...
16:24:34 <Patrick> that's an obscure patch
16:24:42 <Patrick> what you want can be done with priority signals
16:24:46 <Patrick> like the picture you linked
16:24:53 <Patrick> it's not complex once you understand it
16:25:49 <qkr> but this patch solution looks simpler, less signals
16:26:25 <Patrick> it also involves running some random guy's code, your saves won't work with anyone else, you won't be able to upgrade
16:27:20 <Patrick> plus, some way down the page, there's a problem with that
16:34:56 <planetmaker> TrueBrain: interestingly, the filenames have a different name than the enclosed binary claims to be.
16:35:28 <planetmaker> We set explicitly the version to "IS2.0-beta2" - and the filenames all are the mercurial revision h0...
16:35:47 <TrueBrain> revision has NOTHING to do with filenaming :)
16:35:58 <TrueBrain> the filenames are there for easy reference and indexing
16:36:04 <TrueBrain> the revision is there for network :)
16:36:04 <planetmaker> "we set" = if you do a hg clone && ./configure && make you end up with that
16:36:23 <planetmaker> ok - so that's not intended to be exactly the same on all conditions?
16:36:25 <TrueBrain> the CF forces a filename style :)
16:36:46 <TrueBrain> (one you can refer to in an easy way via scripts and stuff :))
16:37:19 <TrueBrain> the only thing that is possible, is to change the hg revision tag to a release tag, but that only happens when we tell CF it is a release
16:37:56 <TrueBrain> in this case I think it is a terrible idea to make the revision tag IS2.0-beta2 .. isntead I would go for @@revision@@-is2
16:38:00 <planetmaker> ok, what does it use then?
16:38:09 <TrueBrain> reason is simple: if you find a bug, you can update, run CF again, and let everyone update
16:38:12 <planetmaker> I would have chosen that, too, yes
16:38:51 <TrueBrain> for now releases are only possible for official OpenTTD binaries (and even that only via tags)
16:39:06 <TrueBrain> if you guys REALLY would want the revision tag removed, I need to considered that (mostly, the impact that would have)
16:39:36 <planetmaker> it's nothing big. We just wondered and I though I might ask the person who knows :)
16:39:51 <TrueBrain> and so now you know ;)
16:40:11 <TrueBrain> but in the case of is2, I would suggest using @@revision@@-is2 as revision-tag .. using tags without @@revision@@ is really silly
16:40:27 <planetmaker> yes, I think so, too
16:41:06 <planetmaker> I'd have gone for @@revision@@-is2-beta2
16:41:11 <planetmaker> or would that be too long?
16:41:21 <TrueBrain> I mean ... does it really mean something, the 'beta2' thingy?
16:41:31 <TrueBrain> when you find a bug today, it is fixed tomorrow .. and you call it beta3? :p
16:41:32 <planetmaker> because that's what it is :)
16:42:09 <planetmaker> I guess that versioning scheme was introduced by Swallow before we had the compile farm work for us ;)
16:42:19 <planetmaker> and then making the binaries was really... effort
16:42:32 <planetmaker> so a new binary release would only be made from time to time
16:42:45 <planetmaker> you say we should change that?
16:42:56 <planetmaker> then I'll propose that to Aali and Swallow
16:43:17 <TrueBrain> it would allow faster test-cycles
16:43:24 <TrueBrain> or you have beta99 by the end of the month ;)
16:44:26 <planetmaker> ok. Then I'll try to be persuasive in that way. I prefer it actually, too
16:44:55 <TrueBrain> (problem btw of release-tags, is that they don't build in debug-mode)
16:44:59 <planetmaker> though something like ...-is2-b3 gives a better reference for which test version it is (3) than the h...
16:45:05 <planetmaker> which is not human readable really
16:45:09 <planetmaker> at least not sequential
16:45:57 <planetmaker> and if people complain about something then it's easier to know with such number which version they use and whether it's fixed already
16:46:34 <TrueBrain> still SVN is useful for that .. sequential numbers ...
16:46:43 <TrueBrain> mercurial does have that too .. but requires you do use it in a central way
16:46:46 <TrueBrain> which mostly fails ;)
16:47:26 <planetmaker> well, hg is fine, if one can add a release number to a version.
16:47:44 <planetmaker> hm... I have strange behaviour here.
16:47:55 <planetmaker> I join the IS2 server - fine.
16:48:12 <planetmaker> Then I use my binary which is compatible with the public server - and it doesn't find that.
16:48:21 <planetmaker> if I enter the server manually, it's ok and fine.
16:48:48 <planetmaker> But then the same happens, if I again want to join the IS2 server: it isn't found anymore in the server list until I enter it manually and join
16:52:31 <planetmaker> hm... not if I change the server port...
16:54:31 <planetmaker> hm... no, not true. Still doesn't work
16:58:50 <planetmaker> hm... sometimes they're there, sometimes not.... hm. well.
16:59:02 <planetmaker> not reproducable, I guess
16:59:11 <TrueBrain> planetmaker: I think you have a local problem ;) :p
17:00:38 <planetmaker> but I have no connectivity issues or so...
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17:08:09 <Alberth> planetmaker: you can set tags in hg for revision tagging.
17:09:35 <planetmaker> Alberth: we did do that.
17:09:52 <planetmaker> the tag is exactly that: IS2.0-beta2
17:10:39 <planetmaker> no, it's 2.0beta2
17:33:28 <TrueBrain> WT3 validation is up and running .. just need to make a small patch to allow glx his annoying string :p
17:33:56 <TrueBrain> and I need to trash the DB on the server and run a new import ... pff .. :p
17:33:59 <TrueBrain> will do that overnight I guess
17:42:08 <planetmaker> cron job it to 3am or so
17:42:54 <petern> so bad i thought i'd share
17:43:24 <Bjarni> good thing I didn't get around to install that smell card driver
17:45:12 <Bjarni> I was once at a private LAN party (consisting of 3 people) and the PC user managed to melt his sound card
17:45:56 <TrueBrain> that user being you, I assume
17:49:08 <Bjarni> the result was that the PC user was without sound the whole weekend while the rest of us had sound :P
17:49:38 <Bjarni> to be fair it really was a low end sound card
17:51:38 <CIA-9> OpenTTD: alberth * r16142 /trunk/src/ (lang/english.txt settings_gui.cpp): -Codechange: Use widgets in the custom currency window.
17:51:50 <TrueBrain> Alberth: how many windows left?
17:52:48 * frosch123 was once at a private LAN party (consisting of about 8 people) and the fuse blew. But instead of waiting so everyone can turn of his monitor and such the host tried to switch it on five times in a row consuming one PSU and one power socket
17:52:57 <CIA-9> OpenTTD: alberth * r16143 /trunk/src/lang/ (42 files in 2 dirs): -Codechange: Change other languages too.
17:53:57 <Alberth> TrueBrain: this one is not even done yet
17:55:56 <frosch123> afaik there is a scheduled gui work up to ottd 0.A
17:56:08 <TrueBrain> oh, more than 50% done :)
17:56:18 <Alberth> for the first phase :)
17:57:46 <Alberth> Am also spending time on pushing window widgets into a nice shape. Takes time, but makes life easier in the future
17:58:38 <Alberth> more than 1 :) Have not thought yet about what to do in which order next
18:00:11 *** ChanServ sets mode: +v glx_
18:03:59 <Alberth> First phase is to have a nested widget tree for every window in use. Then we could look into adding support for RTL languages. Also then we can drop the widget array constants, and need to figure out how to render/interact with the tree in a window. Then, when we let go of the fixed size of fonts, basically all rendering in the panels will drop dead.
18:04:15 <Alberth> So 0.A seems like an adequate estimate :)
18:06:03 <Alberth> Oh, I missed the concept that widgets need to lose their hard-coded size. That must be done somewhere too :)
18:07:11 <TrueBrain> so you will be around for the next few months :)
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18:31:55 <Alberth> No way to look at the actual texts that need translation for a language at WT2 without account, is there?
18:33:10 <Yexo> Alberth: for Dutch, only the strings you just added are missing
18:38:24 <TrueBrain> it will be gone in a moment .. going to restart the import :)
18:40:30 <planetmaker> STR_TOOLTIP_SET_CUSTOM_CURRENCY_SEPARATOR <-- is that the seperator for 1000 or for 1,23€ ?
18:41:28 <Yexo> is there a way to clear strings from the "in session" status in wt2?
18:41:50 <planetmaker> commit and then delete them
18:41:51 <Rubidium> Yexo: yes... asking me to kill your complete session ;)
18:42:02 <Yexo> Rubidium: can you do so for me?
18:55:52 <planetmaker> hm... does this separator setting have any effect anywhere?
18:57:20 <planetmaker> oh. only with restart?
18:59:45 <planetmaker> and why is the Euro earliest introduced in 2000? It became official money in 1999.
18:59:52 <planetmaker> though only book money
19:00:11 <TrueBrain> so in 2000 it was official introduced :p
19:00:33 <TrueBrain> so then it is nicely in the middle!
19:00:35 <planetmaker> as money for you to have in the hand
19:00:51 <TrueBrain> (Btw, it was 2002, but okay)
19:01:08 <planetmaker> ok. wasn't living in Europe back then.
19:01:22 <TrueBrain> if you do like you know it all, make sure you have it right :) Mwhaha :)
19:02:00 <TrueBrain> lol, for a few revisions, one translator did translate every {TOWN} instance with {CITY} :p
19:02:15 <TrueBrain> he was consistant :)
19:03:05 <TrueBrain> k, going to update WT3 now
19:05:25 <TrueBrain> this is going to take a while :p
19:08:48 <TrueBrain> planetmaker: German language has id 7
19:18:21 *** ChanServ sets mode: +v tokai
19:20:48 <TrueBrain> glx / planetmaker / whoever: string validation works in the 'Edit' section of WT3. If you have the time, please try it out. Saves are not really saved yet, but validation fails when it should (or so I hope)
19:20:52 <TrueBrain> glx: your string is still not accepted
19:20:59 <TrueBrain> haven't got the time to write my own split() routine :)
19:21:13 <TrueBrain> import is running, so you can expect to see Lock errors from time to time :)
19:21:55 <glx> TrueBrain: I reached an infinite loop :)
19:22:03 <TrueBrain> glx: try a valid language :p
19:22:23 <TrueBrain> can't remember why it happens ... I should fix it :p
19:22:48 <glx> "there are no string in this category"
19:23:04 <TrueBrain> clicking okay should send you to the All String category ...
19:23:10 <TrueBrain> which language are you trying?
19:23:33 <TrueBrain> gives a DoesNotExist page
19:23:53 <glx> I can't due to the message box
19:24:18 <glx> click and quick F5 worked
19:25:11 <glx> too many untranslated for now ;)
19:25:24 <TrueBrain> but try out the translation validation routine :)
19:26:01 <TrueBrain> 3 untranslated strings now for french :p
19:26:24 <frosch123> 2062 for original vehicle names :p
19:26:37 <TrueBrain> I couldn't be bothered to filter it out ... is removed now anyway :)
19:26:42 <frosch123> 91.5 overall is not too bad either
19:27:04 <TrueBrain> but we have now 4 times as many languages :)
19:27:37 <frosch123> nevertheless, there are no 'unfinished' languages, are there?
19:28:07 <TrueBrain> first onces appear around r2000
19:28:11 <TrueBrain> when Bjarni fucks that up completely :p
19:30:59 <TrueBrain> (he did a svn copy instead of a svn move .. giving twice the same language :))
19:31:39 <TrueBrain> we have come a long way, since r1 ... from a small set of languages to a lot more languages ...
19:32:35 <frosch123> that is the first law of bureaucracy: before you remove something, better do a copy
19:32:56 <Bjarni> what do you claim that I fucked up?
19:33:00 <TrueBrain> Bjarni: don't tell us you didn't do it, your name is in the SVN logs :p
19:33:09 <TrueBrain> I don't claim anything :) I state facts!
19:33:15 <TrueBrain> I just don't tell it is in 2005
19:33:27 <Bjarni> based on the logs that only you can modify :P
19:33:28 <Prof_Frink> No, the first law of bureaucracy is the same as the first law of everything else. Put the kettle on and have a cup of tea.
19:33:34 <Bjarni> it's a plot against me
19:34:17 <Bjarni> Prof_Frink: actually the first law of bureaucracy is not to do anything unless you have somebody else to blame if it goes wrong
19:34:58 <Prof_Frink> Unless that something is making tea.
19:40:23 <TrueBrain> planetmaker: didn't you have a IS2 server running? :p
19:50:33 <Bjarni> so TrueBrain is making claims about what I did or didn't do 4 years ago
19:50:47 <TrueBrain> Bjarni: again, not claiming; stating facts
19:51:08 <planetmaker> TrueBrain: there is a server running with IS2 afaik
19:51:24 <planetmaker> mz.openttdcoop.org:3981
19:51:29 <Bjarni> I don't recall copying the language files :/
19:51:43 <TrueBrain> Bjarni: suprising, that your memory doesn't go back 4 years ....
19:51:46 <TrueBrain> lucky we have SVN to remind you
19:52:02 <TrueBrain> planetmaker: not in server-list
19:52:10 <Bjarni> I wonder if I did something as good as a could at the time or if my svn client did something silly
19:52:37 <TrueBrain> planetmaker: somehow I think it is related to port 3981 and your local machine
19:52:40 <Bjarni> I remember I had problems installing svn in the beginning
19:52:49 <Bjarni> since it turned out that it was listed as unstable
19:52:53 <TrueBrain> Bjarni: sure sure, try to blame something else
19:53:00 <TrueBrain> but the difference between 'svn copy' and 'svn move' is big :p
19:53:20 <Bjarni> it's just 3 letters :P
19:53:58 <Bjarni> I know the difference is big but I remember having a bit of an issue with this stuff
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19:54:22 <Bjarni> I once did svn move and the history died so it was reverted and committed again
19:54:26 <TrueBrain> but no worries, it happens more often that I read: WT2 f*cked up (mostly commits by MiHaMiX :))
19:54:38 <Bjarni> why the same command failed the first time and worked the last.... I have no idea
19:55:20 <Bjarni> luckily I'm using a newer version of svn now and it's listed as stable so it should work now
19:55:25 <Nite_Owl> Hello TrueBrain, planetmaker, and Bjarni
19:56:45 <Bjarni> TrueBrain: well there is no reason to talk about it now. I mean we all know how we would like it to have been done and we would all have done it that way today. The question is what to do now in order not to confuse WT3
19:56:59 <TrueBrain> Bjarni: then why you talk about it?
19:57:18 <Bjarni> well I wonder what you intend to do now :)
19:57:41 <TrueBrain> hit you with a few bricks over and over
19:58:10 <Bjarni> I don't think that will fix issues in the commit log
19:58:18 <TrueBrain> I am not 100% sure ..
19:58:20 <TrueBrain> I can at least try!
19:58:32 <Bjarni> that could be dangerous to your health
19:58:42 <planetmaker> TrueBrain: what's the update frequency of the server list?
19:58:56 <TrueBrain> no, planetmaker, instant
19:59:09 <planetmaker> the web page, too?
19:59:13 <Bjarni> somebody trying to throw bricks at me is in imminent danger
19:59:25 <TrueBrain> Servers registered as on 2009-04-25 19:59:04 UTC. <- I added that to make sure you understand how old the page is
19:59:31 <TrueBrain> clearly you don't .... :p
19:59:37 <TrueBrain> Bjarni: somehow, I truly doubt that
19:59:58 <TrueBrain> planetmaker: but it can take up to 5 minutes before the updater queries your server
20:00:16 <planetmaker> ok, thx. so I'll at worst have to have that much patience
20:00:35 <TrueBrain> if your console tells you you are added
20:03:01 <TrueBrain> planetmaker: for your information, all servers report offline
20:03:33 <planetmaker> oh.. you mean when they go offline by user command?
20:04:04 * jonty-comp takes all the openttd servers offline
20:04:27 <Prof_Frink> What if they go offline by notwerk failure?
20:04:38 <TrueBrain> planetmaker: I mean that all 4 servers ever registered at mz.openttdcoop.org now report offline :)
20:05:05 <planetmaker> but actually correct
20:05:58 <planetmaker> using now the port which worked for the h2h server
20:14:19 <Bjarni> ohh spring is on it's way
20:14:31 <Bjarni> I just saw a sign of increasing temperatures
20:14:41 <Bjarni> there were a spider running on the wall
20:17:09 <CIA-9> OpenTTD: rubidium * r16144 /trunk/src/ (5 files): -Fix (r16129): setting the custom digit grouping separator required to restart OpenTTD to take effect. Now also support non 1 ASCII character custom grouping separators.
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20:20:09 <Nite_Owl> just a spider - I had to swerve my car to avoid a 3 foot iguana the other day
20:21:41 <Rubidium> and the iguana decided to try to avoid you by going to the same direction are you were going?
20:22:33 <Bjarni> I didn't mention size or toxic level of the spider
20:22:47 <Bjarni> that's because none of those are worth mentioning :P
20:22:59 <TrueBrain> and yet you did ...
20:23:31 * Bjarni starts to wonder about a chameleon hiding on a car
20:23:46 <Bjarni> will it end up being wheel+chassis coloured?
20:23:55 <Bjarni> or maybe engine coloured
20:24:25 <Bjarni> ok, I didn't think of that reply, but it's a good one anyway
20:26:01 <martinpilkington> Hey all, got something that I'm not sure if its a bug or the game is meant to work like this, but is kinda confusing
20:26:23 <Bjarni> and then we decide if we want to call it a bug or not
20:26:26 <martinpilkington> if I start a game in, say, 2025 then I can build a railway system, stations, lines etc
20:26:34 <martinpilkington> but when I go to build a train, there are no engines available
20:26:58 <Yexo> then build electric rails and an electric depot
20:27:04 <Yexo> assuming you don't use any newgrfs of course
20:27:55 <Prof_Frink> Bjarni: I'd rather put a chameleon on a tartan rug
20:28:02 <martinpilkington> yeah, it just would make sense to possibly disable the plain railway option if you can't build any trains for it
20:28:13 <martinpilkington> little confusing if a new user was to come along and find that
20:28:42 <Yexo> martinpilkington: you can still use old non-electric trains
20:28:48 <Yexo> just don't build any new ones
20:31:35 <glx> default start date is 1950 for a good reason :)
20:32:11 <Prof_Frink> glx: Because that was the start date in TTD?
20:32:21 <TrueBrain> Prof_Frink: he said: GOOD reason
20:32:41 <Prof_Frink> TrueBrain: Why is it then?
20:32:51 <TrueBrain> did you read anything above what he said
20:32:58 <TrueBrain> or you just saw a line and start puching those keys?
20:33:04 <martinpilkington> glx: then maybe it should be able to be changed ;)
20:33:16 <Prof_Frink> Well, the reason there's trains in 1950 is because TTD started in 1950.
20:33:19 <martinpilkington> anyway it was just something I saw that was odd, hadn't played in a while, updated to 0.7 and found I couldn't build trains
20:33:29 <martinpilkington> then realised it was due to the date
20:36:03 <martinpilkington> btw, is there anything you had to do to enable electric railways besides the date being after 1965, because they don't seem to enable for me
20:36:49 <glx> it's enabled as soon as an electric engine is available
20:37:08 <Yexo> there are no electric trains in tropic/artic iirc
20:37:11 <Yexo> at least not in one of them
20:37:22 <martinpilkington> ah that could be why
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20:44:53 <fjb> Hm is "Assertion failed: (index < this->GetSize()), function Get, file /home/frank/devel/OpenTTD-r16119cadist/src/linkgraph/../oldpool.h, line 125." related to the cargodist patch?
20:45:15 <TrueBrain> fjb: that assert is too generic to say anything about that
20:45:24 <TrueBrain> it means a pool failed in some way
20:46:00 <fjb> Hm, building a debug version?
20:46:20 <TrueBrain> if you can reproduce, yes, a backtrace will be required if you want someone to do anything with it :)
20:46:28 <TrueBrain> or in case of MSVC a crash-dump might be suffucient :)
20:47:06 <TrueBrain> then try reproducing in trunk; if you can't, it is cargodist ;)
20:48:05 <fjb> Good, I will try it. Hope I really can reproduce it.
20:48:22 <TrueBrain> the key for any bug to be solved ... reproducability :p
20:48:45 <TrueBrain> I once tried reading it in the stars
20:49:49 <fjb> Never tried that. I prefer a crystal ball.
20:50:08 <TrueBrain> they always break :(
20:50:59 <frosch123> [22:49] <TrueBrain> I once tried reading it in the stars <- there is a certain chance that there is some planet out there, where the cause of the bug is scribbled on the surface
20:51:09 <fjb> They don't work broken. (But nonbroken either...)
20:51:16 <TrueBrain> frosch123: I wouldn't count on finding the star ;)
20:57:57 <Bjarni> <TrueBrain> I once tried reading it in the stars
20:57:57 <Bjarni> <TrueBrain> kind of failed <-- is that why you decided that astronomy wasn't you?
20:58:38 <frosch123> astronomy != astrology
20:59:06 <Rubidium> it's all about stuff you can't physically grasp ;)
20:59:34 <frosch123> with astrology you can earn astronomical amounts of money
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21:00:48 <Rubidium> I wouldn't call it "earn"
21:01:57 <TrueBrain> frosch123: my joke in this was that I studies astronomy for 3 years, but quit as I failed to do the math courses :)
21:02:07 <TrueBrain> hence my: tried reading it in the stars, but failed ;)
21:02:23 <TrueBrain> so Bjarni was, for a weird chance, right on spot
21:05:00 * glx needs to find a way for my script to use "echo | g++ -E -dM -"
21:05:23 <Rubidium> frosch123: that sounds better
21:09:58 <CIA-9> OpenTTD: rubidium * r16145 /trunk/src/ (strgen/strgen.cpp table/strgen_tables.h): -Add: '-export-pragmas' to strgen so external tools can (hopefully) automatically be updated to support new pragmas
21:20:13 <glx> even makedepend could benefit from it
21:22:01 <glx> echo | g++ -E -x c++ -dM - <-- even better :)
21:24:13 <frosch123> doesn't that already process #include ?
21:25:00 <glx> no that just list builtin defines
21:25:41 <glx> like __MINGW32__ or __GNUC__ :)
21:26:26 <glx> should be easy to add them to CFLAGS_MAKEDEP
21:31:32 <SmatZ> [22:44:54] <fjb> Hm is "Assertion failed: (index < this->GetSize()), function Get, file /home/frank/devel/OpenTTD-r16119cadist/src/linkgraph/../oldpool.h, line 125." related to the cargodist patch? <=== whatever linkgraph is, it doesn't have anything in common with clean trunk
21:32:26 <TrueBrain> SmatZ: sssttt, let him find out on its own :)
21:32:26 <Rubidium> SmatZ: it "only" means that the pool that is being overrun is used in the linkgraph directory
21:32:45 <Rubidium> if the vehicle pool is used in there it could still be the vehicle pool
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21:33:46 <SmatZ> Rubidium: yeah, however no trunk files are placed in the linkgraph directory
21:34:07 <SmatZ> but okay, there is still a chance it's a trunk bug :)
21:34:18 <TrueBrain> doubtful, but always possible :)
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22:04:25 <CIA-9> OpenTTD: smatz * r16146 /trunk/src/ (dummy_land.cpp viewport.cpp): -Codechange: use faster algorithm in SetSelectionTilesDirty(). Up to 1000 times faster when large area is selected
22:08:08 <fonsinchen> smatz, I found a lot of bugs today and checked in the results to my git repository. Perhaps you can post the savegame of shortly before the assertion somewhere and then try a new version.
22:08:51 <fonsinchen> The current git version has a bug with displaying the source station in the station GUI, but I think it doesn't crash anymore.
22:09:22 <SmatZ> fonsinchen: I am sorry, I am lost - what topic are you talking about?
22:09:59 <fonsinchen> ah, I see, you were citing fjb ...
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22:11:04 <Yexo> fonsinchen: was there any news on your diagonal leveling patch?
22:11:45 <fonsinchen> yes, after discussion with you I fixed all the problems and uploaded it into my git repository
22:11:52 <fonsinchen> and posted it in the forum topic
22:12:37 <Yexo> I prefer the patch, that reads easier
22:12:44 <Yexo> saves me the work from making a diff myself
22:13:11 <CIA-9> OpenTTD: rubidium * r16147 /trunk/src/town_cmd.cpp: -Feature [FS#2635]: give the town generator a slight tendency to build towns near water by not discarding watery random tiles but by searching for near land (db48x)
22:22:39 <CIA-9> OpenTTD: smatz * r16148 /trunk/src/core/random_func.hpp: -Fix [FS#2839]: misleading comment (part by Bilbo)
22:23:47 <SmatZ> part of that patch was done by Bilbo
22:24:07 <TrueBrain> hehe :) it reads funny
22:24:23 <TrueBrain> based on patch by, I always use ;)
22:25:26 <TrueBrain> yeah, commit messages are limited in size ;)
22:25:27 <SmatZ> the little note in brackets would be longer than rest of commit message :-p
22:25:32 <TrueBrain> that is why you use parts ;)
22:27:26 <SmatZ> :) /me failed to find Rubidium's longest commit message
22:27:55 <Rubidium> probably a piece of proza about either OSX or Windows doing something stupid
22:29:35 <TrueBrain> @openttd commit 3726
22:29:35 <DorpsGek> TrueBrain: Commit by Darkvater :: r3726 /trunk (9 files) (2006-03-02 02:22:15 UTC)
22:29:36 <DorpsGek> TrueBrain: - [6/6] Finalize conversion, finally save the patches struct.
22:29:37 <DorpsGek> TrueBrain: - Remove the temporary synchronisation in during the map-transfer as this is no longer needed
22:29:38 <DorpsGek> TrueBrain: - The saved patches work just like the saved gameoptions. You have a _patches and a _patches_newgame struct. The _patches_newgame struct contains the values from the configuration file and thus the defaults for new games. When a new game is started or an older game is loaded, the default values are copied over to _patches to be used. When you load a game that has PATS saved, the default values are also (1 more message)
22:29:39 <DorpsGek> TrueBrain: - The current implementation also changes the default values if you change player-based settings in the game. For example changing window_snap_radius in a certain game will also change it for all next OpenTTD sessions.
22:29:43 <TrueBrain> longest single-line text :)
22:30:13 <Rubidium> TrueBrain: are you sure?
22:30:19 <DorpsGek> SmatZ: Commit by rubidium :: r14563 /trunk/src (newgrf_industries.cpp newgrf_industrytiles.cpp) (2008-11-03 23:42:07 UTC)
22:30:20 <DorpsGek> SmatZ: -Fix [FS#2395]: in the case that an industry NewGRF, a shared TTDPatch and
22:30:21 <DorpsGek> SmatZ: OpenTTD feature with it's origin in TTDPatch to replace/add/change vehicles
22:30:22 <DorpsGek> SmatZ: (including e.g. maximum speed, graphics and introduction year), stations,
22:30:23 <DorpsGek> SmatZ: bridges, industries, town houses or any other graphics used by either
22:30:32 <TrueBrain> Rubidium: 'svn log' tells me so :) (remember: single line!)
22:30:34 <DorpsGek> SmatZ: Error: You haven't asked me a command; perhaps you want to see someone else's more. To do so, call this command with that person's nick.
22:30:47 <TrueBrain> SmatZ: DorpsGek simply doesn't send more lines ;)
22:31:15 <TrueBrain> Rubidium: people who do a \n before the end of the line .. well ... I can't help that ;)
22:31:32 <Rubidium> TrueBrain: I don't do \n before the end of a line
22:31:54 <TrueBrain> or knowing you: joe does
22:32:09 <Rubidium> ah well, who cares ;)
22:32:40 <Rubidium> mine has at least a better commit message to commit ratio ;)
22:32:46 <TrueBrain> local import just hit r7250 ... openttd.org remote import is around 2200 ...
22:33:15 <TrueBrain> there where {COMMA16} became {COMMA}
22:34:18 <Rubidium> though IIRC I've had a better commit message to commit ratio once
22:34:32 <Rubidium> TrueBrain: sounds like ancient TTD-ish stuff
22:34:41 <TrueBrain> Rubidium: r2870 ... what gave that away?
22:40:35 <CIA-9> OpenTTD: rubidium * r16149 /trunk/src/ai/ai_instance.cpp: -Fix [FS#2860]: when there's no AI and an AI is started... *boom*
22:47:37 <TrueBrain> WT3 can import r1 till HEAD :) /me is happy with his import-script :)
22:47:48 <TrueBrain> nice to know it understands all the idiot stuff people did over the years :)
22:57:29 <CIA-9> OpenTTD: yexo * r16150 /trunk/src/ai/api/ (ai_industry.hpp ai_vehicle.hpp ai_waypoint.hpp):
22:57:29 <CIA-9> OpenTTD: -Fix [NoAI]: Change WAYPOINT_INVALID to 0xFFFF from -1 as that's the value the AIs got (due to casting).
22:57:29 <CIA-9> OpenTTD: Clarify some api documentation.
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23:51:37 <CIA-9> OpenTTD: yexo * r16151 /trunk/src/ai/ (5 files in 2 dirs): -Codechange: move some includes around to prevent including half the AI api in non-noai related code.
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