IRC logs for #openttd on OFTC at 2009-02-21
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00:00:06 <dihedral> if you dont know what extra zoom levels are then they are not what you are after, correct?
00:00:09 <Rogue-Wisema> well i have been trying to use the wiki.openttd.org stuff
00:00:26 <dihedral> ok, and what were you reading there?
00:01:18 <Rogue-Wisema> origional scale stuff mainly, just trying to workout how do i get it wroking
00:01:24 <Yexo> Rogue-Wisema: best would be to post a link to what you're trying to get
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00:03:16 <Rogue-Wisema> atm i want to try and get the town pack into the game
00:03:27 <Yexo> Rogue-Wisema: are you using original or opengfx graphics?
00:04:31 <Rogue-Wisema> i dont know, i need to go to the basics and understand from the start... but the forums are scattered information and the wiki doesnt explain much there either (or i havnt found the right page)
00:04:42 <Rogue-Wisema> my guess is im trying to use the opengfx
00:06:22 <Rogue-Wisema> except the version is 0.7.0
00:06:27 <Rogue-Wisema> so i have downloadable content
00:06:50 <Yexo> ok, then you're using the original base graphics
00:08:19 <Yexo> download town_pack.tar and put it in the data folder (best would be My Documents\OpenTTD\data)
00:08:25 <Yexo> but installdir\data will also work
00:08:53 <Rogue-Wisema> OpenTTD\content_download\data?
00:08:56 <glx> dihedral: I often try to move the map on screenshots too
00:09:14 <Yexo> Rogue-Wisema: that's fine too
00:09:31 <Rogue-Wisema> then will it just run?
00:09:44 <Yexo> no, then you have to make sure you use a 32bpp blitter
00:10:13 <Rogue-Wisema> this is where things got a little strange... i added the simple blitter
00:10:36 <Yexo> blitter = "32bpp-optimized" <- that should work
00:10:39 <Rogue-Wisema> blitter = 32bpp-simple
00:10:41 <Yexo> but 32bpp-simple is also ok
00:11:51 <Yexo> if you did that, just run the game and it should work
00:11:54 <Rogue-Wisema> oh so i need quotations?
00:12:18 <Rogue-Wisema> should i change the sprite_cache_size aswell
00:12:30 <Yexo> Rogue-Wisema: you don't need the quotations, but openttd adds them automatically
00:14:40 <Rogue-Wisema> just trying it now
00:16:53 <Rogue-Wisema> ok well the towns dont look like the new ones
00:17:40 <Rogue-Wisema> could i extract it out of the tar?
00:21:08 <Rogue-Wisema> this is gettin frustraiting
00:21:21 <Rogue-Wisema> what? dont the graphics work with the new beta build?
00:21:57 <glx> they should if they are not from extra zoom
00:24:07 <Rogue-Wisema> i cant get any ones that arnt the downloadable content to work
00:26:14 <glx> there are no 32bpp graphics in content download
00:26:56 <Rogue-Wisema> so i need to disable the content download so the 32bpp grahics will work?
00:27:11 <Rogue-Wisema> or roll back to 0.6.3
00:27:21 <Yexo> but are you sure they don't work?
00:27:38 <Yexo> the town_pack.tar only changes a few sprites (mostly roads)
00:27:57 <Rogue-Wisema> yeah, i have them in the folder and the towns look the same (in particular the roads0
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00:28:37 <Rogue-Wisema> and the main toolbar looks the same
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00:31:07 <dihedral> [01:28] <Rogue-Wisema> or roll back to 0.6.3 <- give up that easily?
00:32:18 <Rogue-Wisema> well i dont understand why it isnt working, i have got the town_pack.tar in 3 different data folders at the same time (incase the problem is related to the directory it searches) and i havnt got anything else to try
00:32:25 <Rubidium> dihedral: fix your clock, it's off-by-one
00:32:42 <Rogue-Wisema> could be a vista issue?
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00:33:27 <Rubidium> dihedral: then actually run ntp
00:33:41 <Rubidium> well, then why is it off-by-one?
00:33:50 <dihedral> ask apple i use their server
00:34:22 <Rubidium> oh, that explains...
00:35:51 <glx> Rogue-Wisema: what's the content of the tar ?
00:35:54 <Rubidium> Rogue-Wisema: did it work in 0.6.3?
00:36:18 <Rubidium> what base graphics are you using? Copied them from a TTD for DOS CD or from and TTD for Windows CD
00:36:23 <Rubidium> or are you using OpenGFX?
00:36:29 <Yexo> glx: the tar is fine, I just checked and it works here
00:42:03 <petern> i guess it's supposed to check if a sprite character is valid but it doesn't do that
00:42:50 <Rubidium> still, sprite characters seem quite unuseful in filenames, chat messages and other stuff send over the network
00:43:45 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: glx * r15535 /trunk/src/ (31 files in 3 dirs): -Fix (r15460, pre noai merge): use '.' as 'any' for squirrel calls typechecking as stated in squirrel docs
00:47:25 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: glx * r15536 /3rdparty/squirrel/squirrel/sqstate.cpp: [Squirrel] -Revert (r15533): no need to change squirrel code when it already provides the required feature
00:48:12 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: rubidium * r15537 /trunk/src/string.cpp: -Fix (r5215): don't allow special sprite characters (e.g. the ship sprite) as characters in input like filenames or text that is sent over the network.
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01:06:45 <dihedral> now portal really disappoints me
01:09:27 <Rogue-Wisema> oh whops sorry, had a shower and some breakie
01:09:49 <Rogue-Wisema> theres a folder sprites\trg1r\*.png's
01:09:59 <Rogue-Wisema> and im using windows source
01:10:41 <Rogue-Wisema> the grf's work, but not the png's
01:11:37 <Yexo> Rogue-Wisema: are you using the dos or windows original graphics?
01:12:05 <Rogue-Wisema> im pretty sure its the windows ones
01:12:25 <Yexo> start the game and take a look in the game options window
01:13:14 <Rogue-Wisema> isnt the unifish version the windows ver?
01:14:06 <Yexo> I have no idea what unifish is
01:14:19 <dihedral> what are the files named
01:14:32 <dihedral> trailing w in the name or not
01:15:13 <Yexo> for the original graphics it's a trailing r or not
01:15:32 <Yexo> do you have trg1r.grf or trg1.grf?
01:16:03 <Rogue-Wisema> theres an r @ the end of the files
01:16:29 <Yexo> so you're using the original windows graphics
01:16:37 <Yexo> and sprites\trg1r\*.png should be ok then
01:17:48 <Rogue-Wisema> can i just recompile trg1r.grf, and if so, how
01:20:24 <Rubidium> Rogue-Wisema: you're using 32bpp-simple as blitter, right?
01:20:46 <Yexo> I don't know if you can recompile trg1r.grf (think it's possible with grfcoded), but it won't help you
01:21:04 <Rubidium> can you start a game and enable 'full animation'?
01:21:10 <Rubidium> does the water flash?
01:21:22 <Rubidium> (after enabling the animation that is)
01:21:29 <Rogue-Wisema> no the water doesnt flash
01:21:35 <Rogue-Wisema> how do i enable it
01:21:44 <glx> so the blitter seems right
01:22:39 <Rubidium> what's the exact path of trg1r.grf? And with exact I mean with the exact capitalisation of the characters
01:22:58 <Rogue-Wisema> D:\Games\OpenTTD\data
01:23:21 <Rubidium> and the filename? does it have upper case characters?
01:23:51 <Rubidium> and the trg1r directory with pngs is in there?
01:25:07 <glx> maybe put the tar in D:\Games\OpenTTD\data too
01:25:08 <Rogue-Wisema> yeah its in the tar
01:25:23 <Rubidium> then I'm officially out of clues/ideas why it's not working for him
01:25:24 <Rogue-Wisema> ok, but theres a sprites dir b4 the trg1r folder
01:26:21 <Rogue-Wisema> im going to take out the \sprites\ part and see how it goes
01:26:42 <glx> the sprites part is required
01:29:23 <Rogue-Wisema> ok i figured it out
01:29:43 <Rogue-Wisema> one of the download content is messing with it
01:29:57 <Rogue-Wisema> thanks for ur help guys :D
01:30:17 <Rogue-Wisema> no its origional_windows ones
01:30:30 <glx> it's not in download content
01:30:46 <Yexo> any newgrf that replaces the road sprites will make that town_pack.tar not work
01:32:20 <Rogue-Wisema> im just trying to figure out which one is doing it
01:37:40 <Rogue-Wisema> TTO conversion was conflicting
01:38:55 <Rogue-Wisema> thanks for ur help guys, i gotta get some work done
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02:35:06 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: yexo * r15538 /trunk/src/ (ai/ai_gui.cpp genworld_gui.cpp settings.cpp): -Fix (r15334): The difficulty level wasn't set to custom when changing the amount of towns/industries from the newgame gui.
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02:54:15 <Felicitus> at least i dont need ears when coding :D
03:09:08 <Felicitus> hmm, how do you guys put the squirrel stuff into a freshly checked out openttd? symlink?
03:09:27 <Yexo> use svn and it'll be checkout out automatically
03:09:49 <Yexo> the you'll have to check out squirrel manually
03:10:19 <Felicitus> yes, but the configure script don't accept a custom location for squirrel, no?
03:11:00 <Yexo> no, but you can just check out squirrel inside src/3rdparty/
03:11:37 <Felicitus> so i have to add 3rdparty to the git ignore :(
03:33:30 <db48x> I need some new junctions
03:33:59 <db48x> 4×4 crosshatch just isn't cutting it
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07:22:08 <Felicitus> yay! my ai has the first train running! :)
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07:22:49 <Alberth> the era of great wealth has started!
07:24:11 <Felicitus> and actually the first train makes real good profit
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08:00:08 <Yexo> Felicitus: are you still here?
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08:16:46 <Felicitus> yes, i'm still here :)
08:16:52 <Yexo> congratz with getting a train running :)
08:17:14 <Felicitus> thanks :) the results look pretty good for now
08:17:19 <Yexo> and I found a function you might find usefull, although I'm a bit late.
08:17:31 <Yexo> Calling notifyallexceptions(false); disables printing of all catched exceptions
08:18:00 <Felicitus> yes, its already to late, i completely avoided exceptions
08:18:21 <Felicitus> its a bit unorthodox - as soon as building a track fails, all subsequent track building calls immediately return
08:18:52 <Felicitus> there's alot of stuff i need to change later
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08:19:18 <Felicitus> the station site finder for example...it just iterates from all coordinates and tries to place the station layout there :)
08:19:25 <Felicitus> but it works pretty quick
08:20:01 <Yexo> be sure to test your AI with lower AI speeds (as can be set in the difficulty window)
08:20:19 <Yexo> that can make a huge difference
08:20:29 <Alberth> if there is enough room, it apparently finds a good spot soon
08:20:32 <Felicitus> construction speed? or opcodes?
08:20:49 <Felicitus> does this also apply to test calls?
08:21:15 <Yexo> construction speed sets how often your AI gets a tick
08:21:25 <Yexo> very fast = every AI gets called every gametick
08:21:35 <Yexo> fast = every AI gets called every second gametick
08:21:36 <Felicitus> well, now it takes a littlebit more time
08:21:45 <Felicitus> but it still is acceptable
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08:25:35 <Felicitus> now its time for the AI to automatically extend the train with wagons and enlarge the station if it has enough money over for the initial track
08:26:58 <Felicitus> by the way, the max_cost parameter in the RailPathFinder it is the cost of the internal cost calulcation, not the real money, right?
08:27:21 <Yexo> it doesn't keep track of the real money at all
08:27:55 <Felicitus> okay, i work with a multiplicator of 2 for the pathfinder - works pretty good. of course the tracks arent perfect, but they are good enough to start with
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09:27:00 <Unaimed> How do i "alt-tab" to other applications when running openttd (linux)? Alt-tab doesn't work for me
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09:29:37 <el_en> you mean in fullscreen?
09:30:31 <Tefad> Unaimed: depends on your window manager. alt+tab works in many
09:30:48 <Tefad> you can also try alt+rmb and drag your foreground window out of the way
09:31:10 <Tefad> i can move full screen mplayer windows no problem
09:31:18 <Tefad> again, probably depends on your window manager
09:31:43 <el_en> Tefad: i think we were talking about openttd, not mplayer.
09:31:57 <Tefad> yes, but i'm not clear as to why the behavior will be the same
09:32:06 <Tefad> i've not run ottd in a while. i plan to soon though
09:32:10 <petern> if it's fullscreen, you can't
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09:32:16 <petern> this is the fault of SDL
09:32:30 <Tefad> my solution is to run it in windowed mode with the resolution similar to that of my display
09:32:35 <Unaimed> petern, so it isn't possible?
09:32:45 <el_en> Tefad: because it doesn't work the same way as mplayer. do you need to be so smart without even trying?
09:32:58 <Tefad> you can position the window in such a way that the decorations are off screen.
09:33:21 <Tefad> el_en: excuse me. i am merely making suggestions. i am not saying i am correct.
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09:36:47 <el_en> a few years ago i attempted to change SDL so that its fullscreen wouldn't be a "real" fullscreen but a borderless window at screen resolution.
09:38:06 <el_en> but due to my very limited skills on X11 programming, I didn't manage to make the window float above top/bottom panels.
09:45:28 <petern> a train depot with $lots of vehicles in it makes PBS suck hard :/
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09:47:58 <Wolf01> make drive trough depots then
09:49:17 <Tefad> hmm, yes sdl fullscreen does suck. i don't remember it because i decided against using it many many years ago
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10:37:40 <George35> DaleStan: Is Vehicle cargo info (47) available in purchase window?
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10:59:10 <Elukka> what's this thing about program files being read only on vista?
10:59:18 <Elukka> is this something that applies to non-admin accounts only?
10:59:23 <Elukka> because mine sure are writable
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11:07:36 <dihedral> his first name starts with a g and his last name is uest
11:08:24 <dihedral> was a bit surprised when he got his computer and the account already existed :-P
11:15:40 <Elukka> no, i know there is something like that invista
11:15:52 <Elukka> i've seen people having problems with it in other games, too
11:15:59 <Elukka> i'm just curious since i have never encountered it
11:21:30 <welshdragon> that picture is still funny though :D
11:22:12 <Elukka> his idea is mass transit for sheep
11:22:57 <Elukka> welsh, i have actually wanted that creature for a long time
11:23:15 <Elukka> first there were speed signs, then that patch fell out of development
11:23:21 <Elukka> then there were route markers, same happened to that..
11:24:52 <Elukka> i deny any and all potential allegations of being inclined to sheep
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11:26:32 * welshdragon cioies and oastes that into the tycoon QDB
11:29:54 <welshdragon> that should be added to the topic
11:35:56 <Wolf01> bah, you missed most of the ones I saved :D
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11:38:09 <OsteHovel^PDA> Is it posible to play CO-OP with a AI?
11:38:38 <Wolf01> Yes it is, cheat mode, but I don't know if the AI will be happy
11:38:53 <OsteHovel^PDA> oo i got an ide.
11:39:05 <dihedral> does the ai not quit as soon as one cheats and interfears?
11:39:13 <OsteHovel^PDA> if i create a network server and add ai's then join the server :P
11:39:22 <OsteHovel^PDA> maybe i can join the ai's company
11:39:33 * OsteHovel^PDA needs to test it out
11:40:21 <dihedral> you cannot join ai companies on mp games
11:47:20 <OsteHovel^PDA> noo.. i cant join the oftc.net irc server at my laptop
11:47:27 <OsteHovel^PDA> it cant connect
11:47:59 <OsteHovel^PDA> it worked when i just used ip and not dns
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11:50:31 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: frosch * r15539 /trunk/src/newgrf.cpp: -Fix: If an aircraft cannot carry any available cargo, it should not be available either instead of falling back to passenger/mail. Just like the other vehicle types also do.
11:54:37 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: frosch * r15540 /trunk/src/roadveh_cmd.cpp: -Fix: Testing of 'only_this' in CmdRefitRoadVeh() could be skipped by 'continue'.
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12:22:26 <LUADuck> it's all setup for configuring a client
12:22:41 <LUADuck> anyone know of any properly made dedicated-mode ones?
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12:32:46 <dihedral> LUADuck, what's the issue?
12:42:12 * SHRIKEE wonders if the biggest map can be one huge city ^^
12:42:32 <SHRIKEE> well, all the hundreds of smaller ones... covering the entire thing
12:42:58 <SHRIKEE> i got some work to do then
12:43:18 <planetmaker> I think you have a very yelling nickname
12:43:53 <SHRIKEE> nothing i can do about that
12:44:18 * planetmaker had a choice about his nickname
12:44:27 <SHRIKEE> so did i, i chose this
12:47:14 <Roest> so shrike was taken or is it no reference to hyperion?
12:48:51 <dihedral> SHRIKEE, try using caps lock for a change
12:49:29 <SHRIKEE> Roest: yea a slight reference, but that's Shrike, isn't it?
12:50:00 <SHRIKEE> although a shrikee is a bird also
12:50:16 <planetmaker> which would be much nicer
12:51:01 <SHRIKEE> so are you if you think that nitpicking over ones nickname is useful
12:51:56 <dihedral> nitpicking is not the part that makes it useful
12:52:55 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: frosch * r15541 /trunk/ (15 files in 3 dirs):
12:52:55 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: -Revert (r15399): 'v->cargo_type' is also used in other places, which cannot accept CT_INVALID.
12:52:55 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: -Codechange: Add Engine::GetDefaultCargoType() and Engine::CanCarryCargo() and use them.
12:52:55 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: -Fix [FS#2617]: When articulated parts have no available default cargo, use the cargo type of the first part for livery selection.
12:52:55 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: -Change: To decide whether a vehicle is refittable do not test its current capacity for being zero, but always use the 'capacity property'.
12:52:55 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: Note: The property is used unmodifed without calling CB 15/36. By setting it to a non-zero value and returning zero in the callback vehicles can be refitted to/from zero capacity for e.g. livery effects.
12:52:57 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: Note: It is intentional that you cannot control refittability by CB 36.
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13:25:14 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: frosch * r15542 /trunk/src/newgrf_engine.cpp: -Feature(ette): Support vehicle vars 0x47 and 0xF2 in purchase list.
13:27:23 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: rubidium * r15543 /trunk/ (docs/openttd.6 src/openttd.cpp src/video/dedicated_v.cpp): -Change: allow the default debug level of 6 for a dedicated server to be overriden by -d (if used after -D).
13:29:01 <Forked> hmm.. in the 0.7.0-beta1 .. on a 2k*2k map. is it normal that it makes 4+ oil rigs within the first year? (Startyear: 1975 with coast line on just one side of the map)
13:33:02 <KenjiE20> oil rigs appeaer from the 70s onwards iirc, so yea, sounds fine to me
13:33:14 <frosch123> hehe, number of industries created is proportional to map size. maybe water/land industries should be proportional to water/land mass. though at map with a big lake filled with oil rigs might also look weird :p
13:33:34 <Forked> just that the last (but patched, so I tried with some fast forward here) had us with get oil rigs every 15 blocks
13:33:45 <Forked> what a nice sentence, forked. you really borked it.
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13:36:51 <Forked> frosch123: that would be nice :-)
13:37:59 <Rubidium> Forked: you could try disabling multiple industries per town
13:38:48 <Forked> as well as the "close to each other". yep.. I thought I had, sorry
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13:52:09 <Sacro> I was walking along the pavement and there was this sign that said, "Pavement ahead closed. Please use other side."
13:53:37 <Bjarni> did you carry your MacBook?
13:57:54 <Elukka> are you sure you didnt get fresh air poisoning from too much exposure?
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13:59:27 <Bjarni> you know Oxygen can be quite dangerous
13:59:35 <Bjarni> too much of it can kill you
14:00:48 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: rubidium * r15544 /trunk/src/network/network_content.cpp: -Fix [FS#2650]: extracting downloaded content didn't work for Windows if one uses a non-ASCII.
14:02:12 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: rubidium * r15545 /trunk/src/ship_cmd.cpp: -Fix [FS#2653]: if a buoy was placed directly in front of a dock, that dock was seen as a buoy and thus skipped once within 3 tiles.
14:03:28 <Sacro> Bjarni: no, i have it on a leash
14:08:02 <Bjarni> I once got an email regarding contaminated water.... It was contaminated with bacteria instead though :s
14:08:57 <Prof_Frink> Dangerous stuff, that DHMO
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14:14:32 <glx> yes it can even destroy steel
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15:43:13 <extspotter> I need some help (how do you set city names in OTTD from one of the GRF lists of placenames)
15:43:54 <extspotter> and also can you set timetables in 24hr clock, rather than days
15:45:59 <frosch123> if you want to use a town-name grf you have to add it while in main menu, then you can select them in 'game options' and start a new game with them
15:46:19 <Belugas_Gone> extspotter, i do hope you realize a day in openttd is around half a second... i wonder about the usefullness of your request...
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15:50:15 <extspotter> I only knew through the screenshot thread with the catalonia 24hr thing
15:51:43 <frosch123> it is no official feature, and I cannot remember having seen someone releasing that patch somewhere
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15:54:34 <Roest> frosch123 i think i recently have read about a patch that introduces some global clock
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16:30:02 * welshdragon wonders if a dev will code his request?
16:31:21 <FauxFaux> If only there was an issue tracker for these kind of things.
16:34:48 <Alberth> FauxFaux: we have one, it's called the Suggestions Forum :P
16:35:27 <Belugas_Gone> or bugs.openttd.org
16:35:43 <Belugas_Gone> like... oh bugger... a suggsetion :(
16:38:31 <Belugas_Gone> what was the suggestion. anyway?
16:41:49 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: rubidium * r15546 /trunk/src/openttd.cpp: -Fix [FS#2651]: keep_all_autosave ignored for dedicated servers/spectators.
16:43:07 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: frosch * r15547 /trunk/src/economy.cpp: -Codechange: Eliminate all == and != comparisons between v->cargo_cap and v->cargo.Count() to improve behaviour wrt. broken/incompatible grfs.
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16:58:24 <Ammler> is there a console command to change zoom level?
16:58:26 <Belugas_Gone> what? where? when? how?
16:58:36 <Ammler> (for dedicated server)
16:58:46 <Belugas_Gone> not that i remember, Ammler
17:00:25 <jpm> I have a problem with ottd in Kubuntu
17:01:14 <Belugas_Gone> i don't have a problem with ottd in ubuntu
17:01:17 <jpm> When I start game from console some output is written but game window does not appear at all
17:01:38 <jpm> dbg: [net] Map generation percentage complete: 95
17:01:40 <jpm> dbg: [net] Map generated, starting game
17:01:53 <Ammler> looks like it uses dedicated mode
17:02:35 <Ammler> install openttd over aptget or whatever kubuntu is using
17:02:41 <Ammler> then it does install the missing libs.
17:03:56 <Belugas> was gonna say that :)
17:04:16 <Belugas> basically, you built it yourself didn't you?
17:04:31 <jpm> I installed it now from apt-get but didn't help yet..
17:04:50 <Ammler> then, you will still miss the devel-libs, I fear.
17:05:31 <Belugas> like on wiki.openttd.net
17:06:23 <jpm> I prefer wiki.openttd.org ;)
17:06:49 <Ammler> just read one of them :P
17:07:37 <jpm> Actually I tried to find help from one of them but I found only guides for win...
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17:10:00 <Belugas> ho... net... org of course :P sorry
17:11:21 <Belugas> nuoon about kubuntu, but i guess it might be quite the same
17:12:07 <Ammler> looks almost that easy as suse ;-)
17:12:58 <Ammler> hmm, Gentoo looks the easiest.
17:15:13 <|Jeroen|> yeah gentoo is easy once installed
17:16:19 <welshdragon> Belugas: speed restrictive signals (response to 16:38 post)
17:19:13 <Belugas_Gone> welshdragon: do not count on me for that. last time i playd with signals, i got quite a bit frustrated by the updating mechanism
17:19:33 <welshdragon> Belugas_Gone: heh, ok
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17:25:07 <Ammler> welshdragon: does not michi_cc have a "hack" for that
17:25:21 <welshdragon> Ammler: i don't know
17:25:30 <Ammler> something like yellow signal
17:25:30 <welshdragon> also, i don't like kacks
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17:52:50 <el_en> Voyager season 6 seems to have a plenty of well-written episodes.
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18:10:31 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: rubidium * r15548 /trunk/src/rail_cmd.cpp: -Fix: incorrect error message when removing non-existing diagonal rail (TRACK_X/Y) with the single directional rail tool (i.e. not autorail).
18:13:08 *** Belugas sets mode: +o Belugas_nomade
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18:17:43 <smallfly> why are the trains in openttd faster on diagonal tracks than on straight ones?
18:18:55 <db48x> diagonal bits are shorter, so perhaps they're not really any faster
18:20:46 <smallfly> the trains moves faster in pixels per second
18:22:10 <frosch123> that is because trains are longer on those tracks
18:23:14 <smallfly> the get "stretched" on the diagonal tracks ...
18:23:55 <smallfly> the question is: why
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18:26:03 *** ChanServ sets mode: +v DorpsGek
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18:27:22 <Ammler> smallfly: there is already a closed bugreport about.
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18:28:03 <Ammler> that bug already exists since TTO
18:28:04 <db48x> well, when they're on the straight tracks they're not in the same plane as the monitor
18:28:32 <db48x> so really they're normal when they're on the diagonals, and squished by perspective (or really the isometric display) on the straight tracks
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18:48:51 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: translators * r15549 /trunk/src/lang/ (9 files): (log message trimmed)
18:48:51 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: -Update: WebTranslator2 update to 2009-02-21 18:48:25
18:48:51 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: brazilian_portuguese - 5 changed by tucalipe (5)
18:48:51 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: german - 7 changed by planetmaker (7)
18:48:51 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: indonesian - 4 changed by fanioz (4)
18:48:53 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: korean - 2 changed by darkttd (2)
18:48:53 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: norwegian_nynorsk - 1 fixed, 7 changed by Thor (8)
18:53:46 <Nath> Hey, can anybody help me set up a server please?
19:17:18 <Eddi|zuHause> db48x: the diagonal bits are (theoretically) 0.7 times the length of a normal track, but the game treats them as 0.5 length
19:17:41 <Eddi|zuHause> so the trains get 0.7/0.5 times faster, i.e. +40%
19:18:23 <Eddi|zuHause> where 0.7 is rounded for sqrt(2)/2
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19:24:41 <smallfly> Eddi|zuHause, so cant "we" just adjust the speed on diagonal tracks?
19:24:58 <Eddi|zuHause> smallfly: well, there are more issues to it
19:25:29 <Eddi|zuHause> the trains also get longer, and some newgrfs rely on that, if you just reduce the distance between wagons, it could cause glitches
19:29:44 <smallfly> it doesnt seem to bother anybody. so it cant be such a wicked thing.
19:29:44 <smallfly> other question, is there a website about openttd programming? the wiki is not very helpful
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19:30:18 <smallfly> or suck-my-dick.org?
19:31:07 <smallfly> (it was a serious question)
19:31:14 <smallfly> the first, not the ladder
19:32:40 <Wolf01> smallfly, try docs.openttd.org
19:34:50 <smallfly> but i thought of website, where i can find information how to develop openttd patches (which ide on which platform, how to compile, how to install all necessary libs, how the openttd source is build up generally (main structure, where to find what) etc.)
19:35:10 <Belugas_nomade> smallfly: honestly, there were very little people who reported the problem. So i'd say that it is not a very important "problem". I see it as part of the general parameters of TTD world. A bit like a fact of life ;)
19:35:12 <Wolf01> in this case the wiki says all
19:36:03 <Belugas_nomade> smallfly: such a site does not exists. the only material you need is the sources, actually. otherwise, i mean... what would you like that site to have?
19:36:21 <Belugas_nomade> how to to this or that? already in the game, i'd guess ;)
19:37:14 <Wolf01> I would like to have a web interface where I can check the features I want and the perl script made the right changes to the sources for me
19:37:54 <Roest> why would a site for an opensource game project want to teach people about what ide to use
19:38:17 <Belugas_nomade> i'd like a program where i can get tons of cash coming on my credit card :D
19:38:26 <Belugas_nomade> ho.. wait... I can do that!!!
19:39:26 <Belugas_nomade> tru, Roest. IDE is really a personnal thing
19:39:43 <Belugas_nomade> it could be MSVC or even NotePad!
19:39:59 <smallfly> but you have something other people do not have -> experience
19:40:25 <Belugas_nomade> which translates to... trying stuff!
19:40:28 <Wolf01> I started with notepad, then notepad++, now I use notepad++, code::blocks and msvc80 :P
19:40:45 <Belugas_nomade> same in here, Wolfe01 :)
19:40:56 <Belugas_nomade> apart code::blocks...
19:41:42 <smallfly> some people do not want to try all ides over weeks, if all they want to do, it compiling the source with a few changes
19:42:20 <smallfly> but if you are to arrogant for this task, just let it be
19:42:38 <Belugas_nomade> what do you mean?
19:42:40 <Roest> how do you think will you find out which ide you like the most if you don't try them?
19:43:07 <Roest> you can ask here which one to use and you will get n-1 different answers
19:43:09 <smallfly> you cant know which ide is the best for one person
19:43:10 <Wolf01> or better, I started building programs in command line (old basic with line numbers) on the amstrad 464, then I switched to dos and qbasic, then I tried the zilog z80 assembler and now I'm too lazy also to write some lines in c++
19:43:47 <smallfly> but, it doesnt have to be the best ide
19:43:49 <Belugas_nomade> smallfly: have you ever programmed before?
19:44:02 <smallfly> i program for about 10 years now
19:44:38 <smallfly> in the beginning, basic, turbo pascal etc. then vba for office tools, then php, javascript etc, then c# and a bit c++
19:45:02 <Wolf01> the z80 ide was the one I liked more... 12 buttons keypad and 4 7-seg displays :D
19:46:14 <smallfly> the only thing i cant understand: all you guys know a lot about c++ and openttd source. why not setting up a perfect guide for newbies how to change the ottd source
19:46:29 <Belugas_nomade> i did turbo pascal, clipper, business basix, delphi, php, and now C++.
19:46:39 <smallfly> this way, more and more people would join the dev team => faster development
19:47:19 <Wolf01> because to join the dev team you should pass a strict test
19:47:28 <Belugas_nomade> because we would not know where to start.
19:47:31 <glx> Wolf01: you had the one with tapes ???
19:47:35 <Belugas_nomade> apart from what is already there
19:47:36 <smallfly> sorry, didnt mean the inner circle
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19:48:19 <glx> loading time were already long with floppies, I can't imagine with tapes
19:48:31 <glx> though I had a zx81 with tapes
19:48:50 <Wolf01> and I have that green phosphorus monitor
19:49:08 <smallfly> i mean a pdf with about 10 sites: first site: tools and how to install them on each platform; second site: how to setup the ide to make the "compile" button working 3. how the source is build up etc
19:49:14 <glx> the first C in CPC meant Colour :)
19:49:34 <Wolf01> smallfly: chose an ide, then follow the guide on the wiki
19:49:34 <Belugas_nomade> smallfly: such a page would be very long and very boring to write. plus, it has to be done regarding a few levels, from easiness to hardcore. would be a pain in tge butt
19:49:40 <glx> smallfly: there's a wiki for that
19:50:24 <Belugas_nomade> and the current wiki covers at oleast how to setup the environment you've chosen to work on
19:50:24 <glx> but I never done z80 on amstrad, only on TI-85
19:50:33 <Belugas_nomade> which is still a very personal thing
19:51:20 * smallfly tries to download and setup all tools decribed in the wiki now
19:51:36 <Wolf01> not ALL, just follow one guide
19:52:02 <Belugas_nomade> on which OS are you?
19:52:02 <glx> and be careful with DXSDK version if you choose MSVC
19:52:30 <Roest> so you are programming for 10 years now, a multitude of languages and you don't know what ide to use yet?
19:52:45 <smallfly> (i did compile openttd a year ago, i know the wiki explains a lot; but not every detail; and the details can make something not to work)
19:53:05 <glx> all important details are in the wiki
19:53:19 <smallfly> c++ is not comparable to all the other languages i develop with
19:54:12 <Belugas_nomade> and by the way, more people in the dev team does not mean necessarily better patching. most of the time, out of 10 patches, only one is kept and commited. So a guide for newbies would not help at all keeping that ratio as it is. in fact, it would even lower it
19:54:14 <smallfly> c++ is much more intelligent than all other langs
19:54:36 <Roest> we use to say, if you can code the language doesn't matter
19:54:54 <el_en> smallfly is speaking the words of wisdom
19:55:05 <glx> right I can code in almost every language
19:55:21 <Wolf01> the most efficient and intelligent language is the one which does what you want, the best way and with the lowest effort
19:55:36 <glx> and it depends on the task :)
19:55:38 <frosch123> yeah, squirrel and xml
19:55:46 <smallfly> argh ... i didnt mean intelligent in this way
19:56:03 <smallfly> c++ is more complicated than c#, php, java etc.
19:56:09 <glx> only if you use advanced features
19:56:25 <glx> for me they are all the same
19:56:30 <smallfly> the pointer concepts, the nearness to hardware etc
19:56:48 <glx> you can code in c++ without using pointers
19:56:48 <Belugas_nomade> i do have the same concepts when working in DElphi
19:57:06 <Roest> have you ever tried to fully utilize c# of java?
19:57:09 <smallfly> delphi was not part of my list. didnt compare delphi
19:57:18 <Belugas_nomade> the only part that i find difficult in C++(and C) is the concept of strings
19:57:27 <tokai> nothing beats plain C :)
19:57:34 <Belugas_nomade> delphi and turbo pascal are almost the same
19:57:36 <tokai> C++ on the other hand is HUGE crap ;)
19:57:38 <glx> C++ is better than C reagarding strings :)
19:58:16 <smallfly> i dont want to discuss which language is better; c++ is used for openttd and so its the language that should be explained
19:58:17 <Roest> i miss programming z80 assembler by hexcode
19:58:20 <tokai> C is like comfortable readable Assembly :)
19:58:22 <Wolf01> all languages have the same base: there are constructs and there are variables, you always use them in combination, what change between language is the syntax and the name of functions... maybe some languages are more object oriented and other doesn't know what objects are, but once you learn how to program things should come automatically
20:00:16 <smallfly> 2 years ago, i bought some book concerning c++ and wanted to program a simple game. the overhead needed to open a fu**ing window in windows is really complicated
20:00:33 <smallfly> in c# i just say : form and tadah there it is
20:00:38 <glx> that's not c++, that's windows :)
20:01:03 <glx> just use wxwidget and it gets easier :)
20:01:47 <smallfly> is this used in the openttd source, too?
20:02:21 <Belugas_nomade> we have our own,
20:02:36 <Belugas_nomade> based on the old system that was in place in the original game
20:02:57 <glx> and having "custom" look using wxwidgets is not that easy
20:03:07 <glx> but for native look it's good
20:03:49 <smallfly> if you say native look, you mean the windows menus, buttons etc.?
20:04:01 <smallfly> they are not needed in a game like openttd
20:04:04 <Roest> glx i used wxwidgets for my last project, i'm seriously considering going back to Qt now that it's gpl
20:05:20 <smallfly> if i want to code a useful program with a windows own ide, i use c#; i want to use c++ for games only
20:05:59 <smallfly> (too much this night)
20:06:18 <smallfly> (too much alcohol this night)
20:06:36 <smallfly> i think i better stop writing now ;-)
20:09:19 <Belugas> +++++++++++++++++++.6
20:10:06 <Prof_Frink> Belugas: You've gone insaner.
20:10:12 <Prof_Frink> Just thought you'd like to know.
20:10:24 <Belugas> no... my cat danced on the keyboard :D
20:15:10 <smallfly> is there anyone compiling ottd on windows? so which ide, do YOU prefer?
20:16:27 <Belugas> under windows, I DO prefer MSVC
20:16:57 <Belugas> under Linux, I do like the KDevelop system
20:18:19 <Belugas> but since i'm not a CLI guy, i prefer totally integrated system
20:19:05 <Belugas> although MSVC is too big for my laptop. THis is why i have Linux on it
20:19:14 <Belugas> my desktop is still on WIndows MSVC
20:19:16 <smallfly> the wiki says # Microsoft DirectX SDK - August 2007 or earlier (needed for DirectMusic, more later)
20:19:16 <smallfly> # Microsoft DirectX SDK - November 2007 or later (current: November 2008)
20:19:17 <db48x> emacs is the one true editor
20:19:31 <Belugas> for you db48x, for you...
20:19:32 <smallfly> so which one to download? both??
20:19:51 <glx> smallfly: august 2007 is enough
20:20:03 <frosch123> emacs is the one true editor of the 80s
20:20:05 <db48x> Belugas: those who deny the beneficience of emacs merely haven't seen the light yet
20:20:07 <Belugas> you are an extremist who thinks the world should foolow you and only you, db48x
20:20:16 <smallfly> so why dont you delete the other sdk in the wiki?
20:20:39 <db48x> actually, I just like bombast
20:20:48 <glx> I didn't write this page :)
20:21:47 <db48x> that reminds me, has anyone tried my coastal cities patch?
20:22:13 <db48x> I need independant confirmation that it doesn't cause the user's computer to burst into flame before it can be committed
20:22:38 <smallfly> are there any restrictions for msvc++? i mean something like a spash screen "TRIAL SOFTWARE" that pops up in the software i compiled?
20:22:58 <db48x> smallfly: yes, there are
20:23:08 <db48x> smallfly: you'll have to read the EULA for the details, however
20:23:23 <db48x> you can't summarize it like that
20:23:30 <db48x> it depends entirely on which version you bought
20:23:46 <smallfly> bought? the express edition is for free
20:23:52 <db48x> for example, the EULA for the student license is different than the others
20:24:00 <db48x> and the express edition has different requirements as well
20:24:15 <smallfly> is it possible to compile openttd with the express edition
20:24:25 <smallfly> (why do you make everything so complicated)
20:24:33 <db48x> the express edition doesn't include all of the same libraries, but it probably works
20:24:44 <db48x> I didn't make it complicated, I'm pointing out that the complications exist
20:24:54 <smallfly> so, i better use another ide
20:25:05 <db48x> try it with the express edition
20:25:08 <smallfly> i dont like complications, because of any fu**ing libs
20:25:21 <db48x> OpenTTD doesn't use ATK as far as I know, so that problem won't hurt you
20:25:32 <smallfly> i just want to have a working ide. is that so hard to manage?
20:25:49 <db48x> but you have the express edition, and it should work just fine
20:25:49 <smallfly> but i cant crosscompile for mac?
20:26:15 <smallfly> so, if i want to compile for mac AND windows. which one to use?
20:26:23 <db48x> you need two compilers for that
20:26:34 <db48x> one for windows and one for mac
20:26:47 <smallfly> ok. so i can start with msvc. later i get another compiler
20:26:59 <db48x> Codeweavers or whatever it is called, from apple
20:27:22 <frosch123> sorry to interrupt you, but has anyone ever managed to crosscompile for mac on windows?
20:28:03 <db48x> frosch123: dunno. presumably it's _possible_ to do it with gcc
20:28:18 <db48x> I don't know if anyone has ever undertaken to do so
20:28:47 <frosch123> even with gcc it is not possible, unless you are named TB
20:28:47 <smallfly> so how does the ottd dev team compile for mac? manually??
20:28:48 <db48x> especially since msvc is a better optimizing compiler than gcc
20:29:02 <db48x> there are these funny things called Makefiles
20:29:21 <smallfly> another thing i hate
20:30:11 <db48x> other than the fact that make differentiates between spaces and tabs as part of the Makefile syntax
20:31:45 <planetmaker> [21:28] <db48x> [21:26:59] Codeweavers or whatever it is called, from apple <-- just install xcode and you have all you want
20:31:51 <Belugas> smallfly, we useed to have a dev using mac. but the compile farm (under linux) is actually doing the cross-compile. don't aske me how :)
20:32:30 <planetmaker> Belugas: I think TB wrote an article on that somewhere... was fun reading :)
20:32:47 <glx> <frosch123> sorry to interrupt you, but has anyone ever managed to crosscompile for mac on windows? <-- it's already very hard to do it on linux, so I don't want to try on windows
20:32:48 <planetmaker> compiling the compiler himself and doing a bit of patching...
20:33:24 <planetmaker> and tweaking the necessary libraries afair was the hardes bit.
20:35:25 <Belugas> ok... cannot do much more work for this poor customer. so this is the end of my presence online for now
20:36:27 <Belugas_nomade> bye planetmaker. bye glx bye frosch123 bye smallfly, bye all
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20:59:43 <Eddi|zuHause> *mental note* next time you try something in text mode, make sure you have a text mode browser
21:00:46 <KingJ> wget and pipe to cat, all you need ;)
21:01:12 <Eddi|zuHause> yes, now try to fill out a form and post the appropriate response with wget :p
21:01:26 <KingJ> Oh ok then, cheat and use lynx
21:01:34 <OsteHovel^EEE> Do the Rcon open a new connection to the server to send the command or do it use the already established connection?
21:03:11 <smallfly> msvc requires a registration.
21:03:25 <smallfly> so which ide is the alternative?
21:03:42 <smallfly> thats not running on win, is it?
21:03:44 <glx> smallfly: registration is free for express versions
21:03:46 <Wolf01> it does only if you want product updates, newsletter etc
21:04:24 <smallfly> so i can use msvc still after 30 days without reg?
21:04:25 <Wolf01> notepad with the right pluging is really effective, but then you must compile with mingw
21:04:55 <rortom> Wolf01: you could call the MS compiler by hand ... ;)
21:05:05 <rortom> also, there is codeblocks
21:05:34 <Wolf01> but there isn't a project for code::blocks, at least not the last time I checked
21:05:35 <smallfly> where can i download the ms compiler?
21:05:47 <smallfly> i know its integrated in msvc
21:06:00 <smallfly> but i dont want to registrate for that product
21:06:13 <Wolf01> you don't need to register
21:06:28 <smallfly> still after 30 days?
21:06:46 <planetmaker> if I don't want to register, suddenly a person called "Arno Nonymous" appears from nowhere
21:07:00 <rortom> in the VS express thing you have to register
21:07:16 <rortom> they introduced that with VS express 2008 IIRC
21:07:39 <smallfly> so i better download 2005?
21:08:58 <smallfly> forget the question.
21:09:13 <smallfly> perhaps ill try to manage it with notepad++
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21:10:48 <db48x> notepad++ doesn't compile things, it only edits text files
21:12:29 <smallfly> ill use something like mingw to compile it
21:12:47 <db48x> I'm multitasking, so I probably missed something
21:13:00 <db48x> (equally ignoring several simultaneous tasks)
21:13:02 <smallfly> i have a similiar editor called rapid php 2007
21:13:15 <smallfly> but i think its optimized for c++
21:13:28 <smallfly> argh ... i mean "i DONT think"
21:13:58 <petern> Rubidium: "a non-ASCII" what? :p
21:13:59 <smallfly> "dont drink and write"
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21:20:21 <smallfly> so which tools do i need to compile openttd? i have the editor, i have svn to obtain the sourcecode. i think i need to download the "openttd usefull package" and mingw . what else?
21:21:23 <smallfly> what about "GNU Utils for Win32 (includes make) " especially?
21:23:00 <glx> openttd useful package is for msvc
21:23:26 <glx> with mingw/msys you compile all dependencies yourself
21:24:49 <smallfly> i'm looking for the page, where i can find the differencies between cygwin, mingw, etc
21:24:56 <Wolf01> the only problem with that is that sourceforge does not provide the pnglib 1.2.8, I tried many times and then I had to download it by hand and put it in the right folder in order to continue the procedure
21:25:43 <db48x> the differences between cygwin and msys could fill a book
21:26:48 <Wolf01> cygwin is more complex and will need that stupid cyg*.dll
21:27:13 <smallfly> so the decision is clear
21:27:46 <Wolf01> each time I install a new software compiled with cygwin I had to remove manually every instance of that dll
21:28:27 <glx> Wolf01: openttd is compiled with -mnocygwin IIRC
21:28:48 <Rubidium> glx: if it still compiles on cygwin that is ;)
21:28:51 <glx> the dll is required only for posix stuff
21:29:28 <glx> Rubidium: I don't trust users on forum ;)
21:29:47 <rortom> #define UINT_8 unsigned __int8 D:
21:30:02 <Rubidium> true, but what is the last KNOWN correct cygwin compile?
21:30:09 <Ammler> Yexo is a cygwin user, afaik.
21:30:40 <Roest> i'm still not sure why you don't simply follow the guides on the wiki, it's almost impossible to explain it better and easier to understand
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21:31:58 <Rubidium> let me guess, please please: because the person is dyslexic and doesn't want to read the guide as that is difficult?
21:33:44 * petern ponders an early night
21:34:06 <smallfly> the guide explains how to setup mingw. i doesnt explain, why not use cygwin or vice versa
21:34:10 <planetmaker> lol @ Rubidium :)
21:34:20 <glx> smallfly: why would it explain that ?
21:34:40 <glx> it's a matter of personnal preferences
21:34:52 <Rubidium> Roest: then many persons have a "retardation"
21:35:02 <Ammler> does it matter, in which order the files are compiled?
21:35:21 <Rubidium> not really, except a few cases
21:35:33 <glx> but linking order matters for windows
21:35:38 <Ammler> my cygwin test used a strange order
21:35:57 <Rubidium> like strgen.cpp before anything that includes lang/strings.h ;)
21:36:41 <Ammler> well, I guess, that will be handled from Makefile?
21:37:56 <Eddi|zuHause> <smallfly> the guide explains how to setup mingw. i doesnt explain, why not use cygwin or vice versa <- ask 3 people and you get 5 different answers
21:38:11 <Eddi|zuHause> that is exactly why it does not even try to explain.
21:38:51 <Roest> eddi that's cheating, ask n people and you'll get n-1 answers
21:38:59 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: rubidium * r15550 /trunk/src/ (industry_cmd.cpp unmovable_cmd.cpp): -Fix [FS#2654]: bogus secondary error message when dynamiting industries/unmoveables; "X is in the way" isn't helpful at all in that case.
21:39:51 <Ammler> has minigw also a tool to get package very easy, like cygwin?
21:39:59 <Rubidium> same way why the mingw guide doesn't explain why not to use OSX
21:42:19 <smallfly> you guys should remember for which people these guides are written for: not for those who are interested in the disputes between hardware programmers (my compiler is faster than yours, my compiler kicks your compilers ass ...) those newbies just want to know ONE compiler, that WORKS. noting more.
21:42:39 <smallfly> hardware programmers = hardcore programmers
21:42:40 <Roest> and it does exactly that
21:42:51 <glx> Ammler: download the source, extract, configure && make && make install
21:43:17 <Ammler> glx: sounds like windows :-(
21:43:20 <Roest> it has links on what to download, screenshots which settings to make and tells which buttons to press
21:43:28 <Roest> it can't get easier than this
21:43:49 <Ammler> glx: I like to use "zypper in <pack>" ;-)
21:43:57 <smallfly> but it lets the user alone with the question, which tools to use
21:44:17 * Rubidium wonders what compiler reliably always works
21:44:18 <smallfly> the dev team should just delete either mingw or cygwin
21:44:22 <glx> every body is free to use his prefered tool
21:44:35 <glx> I use MSVC and mingw/msys
21:44:46 <smallfly> how should a newbie know, which one is better?
21:45:12 <glx> ask google (won't help to decide though)
21:45:21 <frosch123> why does there always have to existist something 'better'...
21:45:21 <Roest> maybe that newbie would better download a binary and come back to compiling the source once he has at least some basic knowledge
21:45:38 <glx> but the easier to install is msvc
21:45:43 <Ammler> frosch123: that is the human being... or how is that called.
21:46:39 <Rubidium> tralalalala... the easiest to install was buildottd
21:46:55 <smallfly> imagine this case: a normal gamer (not a programmer) want to change one parameter in ottd and recompile it. nothing more. how long should it take to manage that? 10 minutes!! not longer
21:47:02 <Ammler> didn't work anymore here.
21:47:22 <Rubidium> if only this magical someone or that magical somebody did fix it
21:47:33 <DorpsGek> Roest: someone was last seen in #openttd 1 year, 4 weeks, 0 days, 2 hours, 55 minutes, and 10 seconds ago: * Someone here is gay
21:48:04 <glx> but buildottd is still the better mingw/msys installer for openttd :)
21:48:25 <frosch123> Roest: does the googlefight tell you which is more popular, or which one is more troublesome?
21:48:27 <glx> it just misses the latest optionnal dependencies (like icu)
21:48:28 <Wolf01> I'm too tired this night...
21:48:55 <Roest> frosch123 interesting question
21:49:00 <planetmaker> [22:44] <smallfly> how should a newbie know, which one is better? <--- what is better: coffee or tea?
21:49:06 <planetmaker> Can there be an answer?
21:49:07 <Ammler> cygwin install failed here
21:49:42 <Ammler> something with fontcache.cpp
21:49:54 <Rubidium> planetmaker: neither?
21:50:02 <smallfly> planetmaker, your case is not comparable
21:50:12 <planetmaker> Rubidium: possibly yes :)
21:50:25 <planetmaker> smallfly: it's a perfectly fitting analogy IMO
21:50:43 <Belugas_nomade> i hate tea taste
21:50:45 <planetmaker> the world is bigger than just "there's only one way"
21:50:49 <Belugas_nomade> i like coffee taste
21:50:53 <Prof_Frink> planetmaker: Tea, of course.
21:50:54 <Belugas_nomade> both wakes me up
21:51:02 <glx> Ammler: you give too little details
21:51:12 <planetmaker> I prefer one at a time, but both at their time :)
21:51:28 <Belugas_nomade> both at the same time would be... interesting
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21:51:39 <smallfly> planetmaker, comparable would be: how do i fuck to girls? first girl A than girl B or vice versa
21:51:54 <Belugas_nomade> let's fuck CATS!
21:52:23 <smallfly> you would write a wiki: you can fuck A than B or vice versa
21:52:28 <Prof_Frink> Belugas_nomade: #tycoon is that way <--
21:52:46 <smallfly> i would propose the user: fuck A, than B.
21:53:15 <smallfly> he will get happy with this order
21:57:13 <Nath> Hello, could anybody help me get a nightly server online please? As none of them work =(
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21:58:51 <Rubidium> oh dihedral, your autonightly hasn't automatically updated
21:59:01 <Ammler> his server is somehow broken
21:59:25 <Rubidium> Ammler: looks like libfreetype is 'broken'
21:59:33 <glx> Ammler: ft2build.h: No such file or directory
21:59:48 <Rubidium> broken as in: the cflags that freetype-config gives are wrong
21:59:58 <Ammler> but isn't freetype optional?
22:00:07 <Ammler> or is that something else?
22:00:24 <Rubidium> Ammler: yes, but it's available at configure stage
22:00:34 <Rubidium> and freetype-config is broken
22:00:51 <glx> maybe our detection method is incorrect
22:01:22 <Rubidium> Ammler: what does freetype-config in cygwin give you?
22:01:29 <Ammler> I made today a fresh install of cygwin
22:02:10 <Rubidium> Ammler: does freetype-config in cygwin give you an error that it doesn't exist?
22:02:13 <Ammler> Rubidium: the usage-msg
22:02:16 <glx> seems we detect only if freetype-config is present
22:02:38 <Rubidium> glx: existance of freetype-config should be enough (IMO)
22:02:49 <Rubidium> Ammler: what does freetype-config --cflags give you?
22:03:31 <Rubidium> --cflags gives the version?
22:03:43 <Ammler> -I/usr/include/freetype2
22:04:18 <Nath> Does this mean a nightly server will be up soon =X?
22:05:07 <Nath> Ammler: dihs ?? (Sorry, newb here ^^)
22:05:12 <Ammler> I installed libfreetype-devel
22:05:47 <Ammler> Nath: there are always nightly servers up
22:05:50 <Rubidium> Ammler: sounds like libfreetype-devel is broken then
22:06:36 <Rubidium> Ammler: did you follow the wiki to the letter?
22:06:54 <Ammler> I at least installed every pack
22:07:13 <Nath> Ammler: For me there are 2, one is passworded, the other gives me "Game failed to load" error and the people i play with get the same error.
22:08:12 <Rubidium> Ammler: looking at the wiki page about cygwin you didn't follow it to the letter
22:08:30 <Rubidium> Ammler: and I'm especially talking about point number twelve
22:09:18 <glx> hehe cygwin freetype is "broken"
22:09:38 <Ammler> hmm, don't i have symlinks in cygwin?
22:09:51 <Nath> scrap that, there is only the passworded server online now :( lol
22:09:54 <Rubidium> does Windows provide symlinks? if not, then no
22:09:57 <glx> or the compiler, because it should find headers in /usr/include without porblems
22:10:19 <Ammler> Nath: google for the servername
22:10:26 <Prof_Frink> Last time I played with it, cygwin treated .lnk files as symlinks
22:10:31 <Ammler> you might then find a homepage with access infos
22:14:01 <Nath> Ammler: found nothing for the passworded one, and the dehidral's website hasnt had a message on there since the 2nd feb
22:15:26 <Ammler> Nath: try older revs then :-)
22:18:15 <Ammler> Rubidium: glx, seems to work now, thanks.
22:18:43 <glx> anyway it's weird it doesn't find it in /usr/include
22:19:09 <KenjiE20> nath; are you refering to 'BuF's nightly' for the passworded one?
22:20:09 <glx> there's only one nightly server
22:21:20 <Ammler> glx: how do you call yesterday nightly?
22:21:38 <glx> yesterday nightly is broken :)
22:21:49 <Roest> may i play a nightly on the afternoon?
22:22:08 <Rubidium> I'd call them ancient
22:22:58 <glx> dihedral: your AutoNightly fail to update ;)
22:23:29 <frosch123> at least rename it to ManualNightly
22:24:03 <Ammler> not only the nightly server ;-)
22:24:39 <Ammler> other services too, but not all :-)
22:25:21 <Ammler> I guess, the libpng issue is known and still there.
22:26:13 <glx> Ammler: read the FAQ on the same wiki page
22:26:30 <Ammler> glx: well, that is why I asked.
22:26:56 <Ammler> (to inform you, it isn't fixed ;-)
22:27:07 <glx> as libpng is quite old it's not surprising :)
22:27:27 <Nath> KenjiE20: Well at least someone knows how to keep a server online :P
22:27:39 <KenjiE20> heh, I update manually
22:28:47 <glx> hmm no zlib is quite old, libpng is updated more often (but I don't know if cygwin updates it)
22:30:57 <Rubidium> 1.2.12 seems to be their latest
22:31:33 <Rubidium> libpng only reached 1.2.34
22:38:52 <planetmaker> he, yeah. But it still compiles and works... :)
22:39:07 <Eddi|zuHause> cygwin sucks (imho)
22:40:07 <glx> I can't install cygwin (it breaks my mingw/msys install)
22:40:28 <Ammler> glx: that might be the reason, my bottd install failed :-)
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22:41:38 <Ammler> windows on a vm is damn slow.
22:42:14 <el_en> your vm is damn slow then.
22:42:30 <Nath> Yeah, Windows 7 runs pretty smoothly for me :P
22:42:58 <Eddi|zuHause> how are vms going on processors with virtualisation?
22:43:22 <KenjiE20> win7 under vmware was suprisingly smooth for me
22:43:40 <KenjiE20> but then it had a full core and 1gb of ram to play with
22:44:23 <glx> well XP runs smoothly in vmware for me too
22:44:42 <Ammler> I might give it too less resources.
22:44:51 <el_en> Ammler: VMware or something else?
22:45:10 <Rubidium> one always give Windows too few resources ;)
22:45:51 <Ammler> might be a bit low :-D
22:46:17 <Rubidium> 200 MB's more than enough for Windows XP playing simsig
22:47:08 <Nath> Anybody know where I can find a working link to google's OS? (Space edition)
22:48:59 <Rubidium> the one in Mountain View, CA that is
22:49:32 <Nath> Rubidium: They are all corrupted, every single mirror too lmao
22:49:53 <glx> Ammler: ok unicode is broken in cygwin it seems
22:50:06 <glx> configure --disable-unicode
22:50:19 <Rubidium> Nath: if it isn't at google, then it's very unlikely that it still exists anywhere
22:50:25 <Ammler> needs a complete recompile I fear :-)
22:50:50 <glx> but if you can compile the non unicode build, I'll look at fixing squirrel ;)
22:50:51 <TinoDidriksen> Cygwin unicode works fine if your environment is set up for it.
22:50:59 <Eddi|zuHause> (sorry, really bad joke :p)
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22:51:43 <planetmaker> hehe @ Eddi|zuHause. Do you think non-Germans will get it?
22:52:13 <Eddi|zuHause> i don't know if dutch is close enough to german for that one to work ;)
22:53:05 <Rubidium> Eddi|zuHause: in your bath tub?
22:53:12 <Ammler> I thought, your line belongs to TinoDidriksen
22:53:18 <Eddi|zuHause> el_en: i won't believe you unless you have proof
22:53:39 <Ammler> TinoDidriksen: how do I setup it right?
22:53:39 <el_en> Eddi|zuHause: el tiburone
22:54:06 <el_en> actually tiburón. quite close.
22:54:15 <Eddi|zuHause> close enough, i presume ;)
22:54:37 <Eddi|zuHause> "tiburone" appears to be portuguese
22:54:46 <el_en> maybe i was thinking about the plural.
22:55:05 <TinoDidriksen> Was talking in general...what unicode library is OTTD using? My projects use ICU, which works fine under Cygwin. Haven't tried other libs, but never had issues with any unicode tools...
22:55:12 <el_en> and deriving the wrong singular from that.
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22:56:08 <Rubidium> TinoDidriksen: things like wprintf are part of the C99 standard; not some external library
22:56:25 <el_en> Eddi|zuHause: btw, strangely enough, Hai in finnish happens to be hai.
22:57:04 <Eddi|zuHause> the full joke goes like this: "Treffen sich zwei Taucher, sagt der eine: 'Hi!', sagt der andere: 'Wo?!'"
22:57:26 <TinoDidriksen> Ah, well, probably install GCC 4+ to use those then. Cygwin standard GCC is 3.x as I recall, but it has GCC-4 packages if selected.
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22:58:57 <Nathan321> Wouldnt call it morning here m8y :P
22:59:11 <Felicitus> well it's actually midnight
22:59:24 *** Nite_Owl has joined #openttd
22:59:27 <Felicitus> but i call it morning relative to the time i woke up ;)
22:59:41 <TinoDidriksen> And wprintf() sucks for proper Unicode handling. The standard is lacking so much...ICU is a huge step up in handling various codepages, locales, etc.
23:00:19 <glx> TinoDidriksen: we use ICU for some stuff, but squirrel is not our code :)
23:03:03 <DorpsGek> Nathan321: OpenTTD uses TCP and UDP port 3979 for server <-> client communication and UDP port 3978 for masterserver (advertise) communication (outbound)
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23:08:35 <dihedral> [00:08] <glx> [23:22:58] dihedral: your AutoNightly fail to update ;) <- heppens when the compile farm is not done when i do my check :-P
23:09:18 <dihedral> [00:08] <frosch123> [23:23:29] at least rename it to ManualNightly <- it is not manual!
23:09:36 <Rubidium> but... the last CF run was done earlier than the one that is now running on your server
23:10:11 <glx> [20:37:46] <@DorpsGek> CompileFarm: nightly (r15549) completed.
23:11:27 <smallfly> question: i try to install mingw, but the following error occurs (Extracting gcc-g++-3.4.5-20060117-3.tar.gz
23:11:27 <smallfly> untgz::extract -d 'C:\development\MinGW' -z 'C:\development\mingw_install\gcc-g++-3.4.5-20060117-3.tar.gz'
23:11:27 <smallfly> tgz_extract: bad header checksum
23:11:27 <smallfly> Error: Failure reading from tarball.
23:11:52 <glx> corrupted or incomplete download
23:12:03 <smallfly> i tried it three times
23:12:21 <dihedral> too many processes running on a limited vps
23:12:30 <smallfly> not a layer-8 problem, dihedral?
23:12:43 <dihedral> smallfly, tell me where that'd be layer 8
23:13:09 <glx> smallfly: or maybe it's the tool you use to extract
23:13:11 <dihedral> unless you want to play it on me (who is not the only one with root access) mangling with the setup of the server
23:13:32 <smallfly> BOTTD functions again?
23:13:34 <dihedral> (and i am refering to why JJ quit and why my server did not upgrade)
23:13:57 <Ammler> well, it is a nice mingw installer, if you haven't cygwin like me :-)
23:15:14 <Ammler> glx: without unicode, it doesn't work
23:15:28 <Ammler> do you like to see the errors?
23:16:35 <Felicitus> hmm - is it possible to retrieve if a train is dual headed using the AI API before the train is built?
23:19:23 <glx> grr it doesn''t want to get the new one
23:20:00 <dihedral> AutoNightly back up :-)
23:20:21 <TinoDidriksen> That's without unicode? It's still asking for wide functions.
23:22:17 * glx declares cygwin broken :)
23:22:38 <TinoDidriksen> Out of curiosity, why not use VC++ Express if you're compiling for Windows anyways?
23:22:43 <Ammler> how to tell to use gcc4?
23:23:04 <Ammler> TinoDidriksen: I am just playing
23:23:09 <TinoDidriksen> export CC=/usr/bin/gcc-4 CXX=/usr/bin/g++-4
23:23:45 <Ammler> I will rather give up then using VC++
23:25:42 <Ammler> TinoDidriksen: that will work with openttd?
23:26:46 <TinoDidriksen> Dunno, worth a try...I don't generally compile it for Windows.
23:27:10 <Ammler> at least ./configure outputs tells so
23:27:14 <Roest> hmm with 700+ vehicles fast forward isn't so fast anymore
23:27:29 <Ammler> but then, I don't need to disable unicode, right?
23:27:51 <TinoDidriksen> That is the hope.
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23:30:01 <Ammler> g++-4: The -mno-cygwin flag has been removed; use a mingw-targeted cross-compile
23:30:44 <Rubidium> so we're better of removing all cygwin support
23:31:05 <Ammler> I am not the cygwin pro ;-)
23:31:13 <Ammler> you should ask Yexo about.
23:31:32 <Ammler> he tested my autostart script with it.
23:32:24 <Ammler> but at time without squirrel)
23:33:32 <Ammler> seems like no unistaller for.
23:34:06 <Ammler> just deleting c://cygwin should do the job?
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23:36:01 <Rubidium> rm -rf ~/.VirtualBox on the host also works
23:41:33 *** TinoDid is now known as TinoDidriksen
23:50:36 <smallfly> the cygwin vs. mingw question should be answered now ;-=
23:51:30 <Ammler> Rubidium: indeed, I could trash the vdisk
23:52:00 <Ammler> I should have a snapshot of a clean win install
continue to next day ⏵
