IRC logs for #openttd on OFTC at 2008-12-07
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00:04:59 *** Sacro_ is now known as Sacro
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00:14:06 <nicfer> Would be cool a new option in the local authorities window that funds a taxi network in the city
00:19:47 <nicfer> Only one company per city, diminute profit and slowly rises the LA rating
00:19:47 <nicfer> Oh, and it should be posible to upgrade it
00:19:48 <thingwath> taxi service funded a local authority?
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00:24:35 <nicfer> If you have a low level taxi network in a big city your rating diminuyes
00:26:33 <nicfer> And if it's too high it generes loses
00:28:32 <Belugas> i never can put a word on nicfer's suggestions. Immediate word hat comes to mind : completely insane and idiotic divagations
00:28:37 <Belugas> but after a few moments,
00:28:48 <Belugas> it adds more to the game
00:29:06 <Belugas> but to such a development cost that it feels like climbng the himalaya
00:31:14 <nicfer> The players should own it and if more than one company has a taxi network in the same city the profits are lower per each one
00:31:15 <nicfer> Also, there should be AIs that use the local authorities functions >:)
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00:33:57 <Rubidium> why is it always that people want to get randomly running vehicles?
00:34:40 <Gekz> There should be traffic!
00:34:59 <Gekz> and environmental disasters the likes of SimCity!
00:35:02 <thingwath> I want cars to run over with my trains, yes!
00:35:05 <nicfer> Or why not levels or destroys the whole map like a multiplayer sabotager? Muhahaha
00:35:06 <Gekz> better yet, let us build cities
00:35:18 <Gekz> we could have zones: residential, commercial and industrial
00:35:30 <Gekz> and in later versions we could allow the people to drive the vehicles.
00:35:42 <Rubidium> oh... that's it... people essentially want to view OpenTTD and let the AIs do exactly what they want to do
00:36:08 <nicfer> Heh, there are a lot of things that the AI could do
00:36:21 <Gekz> they could make me a coffee
00:37:31 <TrueBrain> but they should buy coffee first!
00:37:36 * Belugas thinks people wnt vehicles just that it would look more like real life
00:37:49 <Belugas> give me a second while I vomit...
00:38:41 <Rubidium> Belugas: no, that's too much like real life
00:39:10 <nicfer> Fund industries... build canals...
00:39:29 <Gekz> I like how canal stayed in english
00:39:36 <Gekz> even though it should have been translated completely as channel
00:39:42 <Gekz> like the English Channel
00:41:09 <benjamingoodger> possibly to distinguish it from actual channels?
00:41:15 <benjamingoodger> a canal is clearly distinct.
00:43:41 <Belugas> i usually use a canal to urinate
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01:10:28 <Gekz> benjamingoodger: the French seem fine using the word canal for both
01:13:37 <benjamingoodger> well, good for them
01:13:41 <benjamingoodger> I'm not french, however
01:40:59 <Belugas> your loss, ben, your loss :D
01:41:45 <benjamingoodger> "recession? quelle recession?"
01:42:23 <benjamingoodger> "ze frensh economie 'as 'ad continuous growth of exactly 2.45% evary year sinz 1949!"
01:43:58 <benjamingoodger> ^ stereotypical but reasonably accurate in its intent
01:44:15 <benjamingoodger> the french economy is extremely well-regulated compared to our own
01:44:53 <benjamingoodger> they have managed to restrain their house prices and haven't been lending money willy-nilly
01:54:17 <welshdragon> immature Sacro is immature
01:54:32 <benjamingoodger> worn-out meme is worn-out
02:05:01 <Gekz> France has some fairly screwed up fascist laws
02:06:22 <Gekz> which they also vetoed part of teh EU to allow to pass in France
02:06:55 <benjamingoodger> "democracy fail" nothing
02:07:07 <benjamingoodger> they can do what they like with their laws, including laws based on EU directives
02:07:13 <Gekz> erm, when most of the EU voted against it
02:07:23 <benjamingoodger> EU directives aren't mandatory and they don't have to be ratified
02:08:48 <Gekz> then what's the point of an EU directive
02:08:53 <Gekz> if you dont have to follow them
02:09:02 <Gekz> "Here kids, please don't fight, but if you do, we wont stop you."
02:09:32 <benjamingoodger> "here kids, we'd really like you if you didn't fight."
02:09:57 <benjamingoodger> "here kids, we'll throw money at your inefficient farmers if you don't fight"
02:10:14 <benjamingoodger> it's all mutual back-scratching stuff
02:10:21 <Gekz> once again, it's just a way to oppress the poorer members of the EU then
02:10:26 <Gekz> because France can just say fuck you to all of it
02:11:32 <benjamingoodger> or rather, to quote Yes Minister (1983): "We went in to screw the French by splitting them off from the Germans, the French to protect their inefficient farmers from commercial competition, and the Germans to cleanse themselves of genocide and apply for readmission to the human race."
02:11:57 <benjamingoodger> Gekz: the poorer members are also free to say "fuck you" to it
02:14:17 <benjamingoodger> like any international community, it is dominated by the strongest powers
02:15:41 <benjamingoodger> the United Nations is dominated by the United States
02:16:07 <benjamingoodger> the European Union is dominated by the romance language countries
02:16:18 <benjamingoodger> and the Commonwealth of Nations is dominated by the United Kingdom
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03:16:52 <Belugas> and the Earth is dominated by humans
03:18:39 <benjamingoodger> though as a human, I quite enjoy dominating stuff
03:18:55 <benjamingoodger> phrasing fail
03:26:46 <benjamingoodger> do you have a digg account?
03:28:29 <Belugas> what does is the call of my bed
03:28:37 <Belugas> got some sleep to take back :)
03:28:44 <benjamingoodger> enjoy your period of unconsciousness
03:28:48 <benjamingoodger> while you can...
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08:46:40 <George_> DaleStan: How do the game selects colours for trees in toyland? Trees are CC in toyland.
08:56:53 <petern> but as far as i can see there is no colour mapping applied
08:57:44 <petern> i could look in the right place
08:59:56 <petern> it is hardcoded though
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10:05:52 <George_> petern: hardcoded? well, what is the rule? does it use location (like houses) or something else?
10:06:33 <petern> it depends on the tree
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10:15:11 <Eddi|zuHause> the colour is stored in the tree type?
10:38:13 <George_> does it selected randomly when map genaration happens or when first tree appears?
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11:30:42 <Celestar> Rubidium: long story short, it's no comparison at all
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11:36:10 * Celestar hasn't been that disappointed by a vehicle in a long time
11:36:42 <Eddi|zuHause> you mean the TGV disappointed you?
11:36:52 <Celestar> Eddi|zuHause: horribly :(
11:37:10 <Eddi|zuHause> anything in particular?
11:37:24 <Celestar> Eddi|zuHause: most of all the totally cramped interior
11:38:08 <Eddi|zuHause> well, i have never been on a french train before, so i don't have a comparison
11:38:21 <Celestar> no space for coats, luggage or anything (most bags were stapled near the exit, leading to a total mess at stations)
11:38:36 <Celestar> no outlets for laptops/chargers/whatever
11:39:10 <Celestar> the illumination feel like an operating room at best
11:39:12 <Eddi|zuHause> weird... although i remember that in ICEs, only few wagons had those
11:39:21 <Celestar> Eddi|zuHause: the ICE3 has one for every two seats
11:39:37 <Celestar> it is also more noise and more shaky than the ICE3 at a given speed
11:40:26 <Celestar> and while the ICE3 seats are (imho) really uncomfortable, those in the TGV managed to 'lower the bar' even more.
11:41:19 <Celestar> so maybe it was an old train (dunno that), but my verdict upon exiting was: "Never again"
11:41:53 <Celestar> OTOH: it was on time.
11:42:42 <Celestar> oh yes: In the bar you get coffee in cups that will cause you to burn your hands till you have reached the seats (or you drop the entire cup onto someone)
11:43:17 <Celestar> Eddi|zuHause: the "aisle" between two cars are that narrow that a baby carriage doesn't fit through.
11:43:47 <Celestar> Eddi|zuHause: the overall feeling you get is a modern RE/RB, not a long distance train.
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11:44:50 <Celestar> on another note: the first 3 carriages had broken lavatories, since I was in the first one, I had to walk 4 carriages to pee.
11:45:18 <Celestar> but I thought "ok, that MAY happen"
11:45:48 <Celestar> but: the LGV Est really rocks :D
11:45:55 <Celestar> more so in the ICE3MF (=
11:47:15 <Celestar> top speed we reached in the ICE3 was 317km/h :D
11:47:26 <Celestar> which is really really embarrassing for Germany imho
11:48:20 <petern> 317 seems pretty fast to me
11:49:25 <Celestar> but it needs to go to France to attain that speed.
11:50:09 <Celestar> in Germany, it can go "only" up to 300km/h on very short distances, and it mostly seems to do so only when delayed.
11:52:26 <petern> so it's basically like the ol' class 43 here
11:52:32 <petern> which, whilst it could go fast, couldn't
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11:54:47 <Celestar> because of the sucky tracks in Germany.
11:55:06 <Celestar> One has to point out that it's much more difficult to build HST in Germany than in France
11:55:27 <Eddi|zuHause> i also assume that the french network is much more centralistic
11:55:37 <Celestar> the entire LGV-Est (300km) doesn't contain a single tunnel
11:55:57 <Celestar> most HSTs in Germany have > 25% Tunnels, some up to 50%
11:56:22 <Eddi|zuHause> so the high speed tracks will almost certainly go in star form from paris
11:56:46 <Eddi|zuHause> wich makes them more practical, than a distributed network in germany
11:57:14 <Eddi|zuHause> where you will need several tracks in parallel through the country
11:57:52 <Celestar> I'm out for lunch a bit
11:58:05 <Eddi|zuHause> which means the traffic will also be balanced over the different tracks, making each track less "efficient"
11:58:18 <Celestar> petern: 317km/h is basically 200mph :D
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12:20:07 <yorick> what...how does it mean "glibc will not build on windows, because no-one ever concidered taking into account that some people use windows"
12:41:32 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: truebrain * r14661 /trunk/config.lib: -Fix r14659: oops, forgot to escape '?' ;)
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13:20:48 <yorick> conversion from ~std::_List_const_iterator<CargoShareInfo*>T to non-scalar type ~std::_List_iterator<CargoShareInfo*>T requested <-- what?
13:22:06 <TrueBrain> exactly what it tells you
13:23:02 <TrueBrain> maybe a more readable error would have been: can't convert const to non-const
13:23:29 <yorick> C++ errors aren't exaclt readable :p
13:23:41 <Celestar> but they're pretty clear in this case, aren't they?
13:23:50 <Celestar> _List_const_iterator to _List_iterator
13:23:56 <TrueBrain> Celestar: clearly not for yorick ... then again .. it is yorick :)
13:26:31 <TrueBrain> so tempting to kick someone now .. or is that just me? :p
13:28:29 <TrueBrain> not you, you are nice :)
13:28:41 <TrueBrain> but that is just minor details :)
13:28:55 <Celestar> I'll be back in a few
13:29:00 <yorick> he smells in my face :/
13:29:38 <Celestar> I think we've peaked the humor now :P
13:30:52 <TrueBrain> we are far far over the peak .. but okay, it takes a while before some people notice that :p
13:41:52 <Eddi|zuHause> what happened to him anyway?
13:41:59 <DorpsGek> Eddi|zuHause: Bjarni was last seen in #openttd 4 weeks, 1 day, 16 hours, 13 minutes, and 57 seconds ago: <Bjarni> <ln-> well, good to see you back amongst the healthy, in any case. <-- sort off.... I'm totally tired and I missed everything at uni this week
13:42:11 <Eddi|zuHause> famous last words...
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13:50:47 <Eddi|zuHause> sorry, no warez bots here...
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16:22:52 <Celestar> Rubidium: I've brought cargodest up to scratch wrt to guidelines/your review. If you wanna take another look, it'd be great
16:23:57 <yorick> Celestar: btw, why are you changing economy.cpp:VehiclePayment()?
16:25:18 <Celestar> what modification are you referring to, yorick ?
16:26:09 <yorick> the switch at economy.cpp:1513
16:26:52 <yorick> "profit << 8" > "profit * 256"?
16:27:33 <Eddi|zuHause> because you should not use shifts with obviously arithmetic operations
16:28:11 <yorick> I think it is rather for the Fract stuff
16:28:11 <Celestar> and I was messing around what that function anyway (and a lot=
16:28:38 <Celestar> we use shifts for bitwise access of stuff normally
16:30:10 <yorick> in SubtractMoneyFromCompanyFract, it is >> 8ed back
16:32:30 <yorick> which has exactly no use
16:34:51 <Eddi|zuHause> *ahem* time for a proper fixed point fractional type... *ahem*
16:35:41 <Celestar> if we see that one is needed, it's just a single file
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16:39:04 <frosch123> I tried adding a fixed point class when cleaning up tgp (IIRC it uses three types with different amounts of fractional bits), but it turned out even worse
16:40:03 <Celestar> frosch123: I have a fixed point class :)
16:40:11 <Celestar> frosch123: and it happens to work (=
16:40:24 <frosch123> I know the one from gamebalance.
16:41:11 <frosch123> But the problem was not the template class itself (btw. I used a far smaller and simplier one), but rather converting the old code
16:41:40 <Celestar> never really looked at it
16:41:43 <frosch123> some stuff just did not treated the fractional numbers as fractional
16:42:32 <frosch123> amplitude_t ra = (Random() << 16) | (Random() & 0x0000FFFF); <- that is still my favorite line
16:42:44 <frosch123> and it is still broken :)
16:42:55 <Celestar> that is WHAT exactly?
16:43:23 <yorick> it seems to do a uint32 random
16:43:39 <frosch123> Well, it creates two random 32bit values (note: order is undefined), throws away 32 bit of them, and reunions them to 32 bit
16:44:01 <Celestar> frosch123: yeah, but what is the point of it?
16:44:23 <frosch123> noone knows, maybe the quality of randomness is better?
16:45:02 <frosch123> however, amplitude_t is a fractional number with 10 fractional bits
16:45:26 <TrueBrain> of course not, the semi-randomizer already has an entropy of .. well .. lets not define it :p
16:51:44 <George_> DaleStan: What should happen, if action 6 overwrites a bite in the next action, that does not exists? For example, the following action is 10 bytes long, while action 6 overwrites 20-th byte.
16:52:43 <frosch123> wiki explicitly writes that it is not possible to enlarge a sprite with action6
16:53:15 <George_> does it mean that it would break nothing?
16:53:32 <frosch123> so either nothing happens, ttdp/ottd crashes, or if they are intelligent enough the grf is disabled as invalid :)
16:53:32 <Eddi|zuHause> everything else would be a horrible buffer overflow
16:54:14 <Eddi|zuHause> a virus distributed by grf... what a horrible idea
16:55:08 <George_> frosch123: Yes, that is the question. I hope that in this case OTTD/TTDP will ignore this action 6, but I want to be sure :)
16:55:57 <frosch123> George_: don't rely on it, as I said it is very likely that in some future newgrfs will be checked more thoroughly and the grf would be disabled as invalid
16:56:09 <frosch123> if you do not want to apply the action6, skip it using action9
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17:06:58 <Zuu> Hello, how long can a client take up the join server slot? I've been second in queue for 4-5 minutes now, this attempt on dihedral auto nightly server.
17:07:13 <Zuu> I though the server would disconnect a client that stalls or takes to long to join.
17:08:02 <SmatZ> I think it disconnects you after "TCP timeout", that is ~12 minutes I think
17:08:03 <Zuu> I did that, but got the message again.
17:08:23 <yorick> SmatZ: join time is limited
17:08:29 <Zuu> But 12 minutes will be within 0-5 minutes or so then..
17:09:20 <Zuu> Tried again, and have a client before.
17:09:33 <Ammler> the queue is not fixed, sometimes someone else does overtake you.
17:09:45 <Zuu> But I will wait then and hope the 12 minutes make it.
17:10:06 <yorick> it's limited by max_join_time or something
17:10:15 <Ammler> at least, it seems like :-)
17:11:02 <Zuu> Ammler: So it is more a pool of clients that currently don't download the map and they are not enterly FIFO by when they connected to the server.
17:11:23 <Zuu> But more when the join-slot gets free the first that asks get the slot?
17:11:38 <Ammler> Zuu: I am not sure, but sometimes, I can see the number rise.
17:12:29 <Zuu> Maybe you as client get some time to take the free slot, and then someone else take it. But it's just speculations. The code is where to look for the facts. :)
17:13:18 <yorick> no, it just looks for the next client on a FOR_ALL_CLIENTS loop
17:14:16 <Zuu> So it is on a new game FIFO, but it can happen that you get a client id lower than someone else in the queue.
17:23:52 <Zuu> Well, its been more than 12 minutes now ( > 20 minutes), so some problem is there. :/
17:28:27 <Zuu> Someone that can check that it is not an issue with my connection maybe?
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17:32:25 <Zuu> The client that blocked join just got removed. Don't know if dih did something in the silence or if it finaly got disconnected.
17:33:09 <Ammler> Zuu: try to join coop server
17:33:46 <Zuu> Can try?, but it sorted out now.
17:47:44 <Forked> if my isp was I'd go kick someone.. seeing how I work there :-)
17:48:20 <Sacro> Yeah, mine now censors that page, I've been on it before
17:48:46 <TrueBrain> Forked: you like kicking yourself? :)
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17:49:51 <Forked> I don't work with the core network things, sadly.. but it's on my todolist to get there :)
17:50:01 <Forked> step one was to get away from support.. that took about four months, hehe
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19:21:33 * Jolteon attacks slowpoke with thunder.
19:21:37 <Jolteon> (sorry, Sacro told me to..)
19:36:35 <Sacro> well this fight is boring
19:39:41 * Jolteon thunderbolts all over Slowpoke
19:45:39 <Slowpoke> ewww. you pervert :o
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20:53:08 <TrueBrain> what a boring channel this is
20:54:07 <Wolf01> why? you can see arrivals and departures like when you are at the train station
20:55:04 <TrueBrain> the only difference is, that at a train station I can spot beautiful girls
20:55:09 <TrueBrain> in here it is just boring purple lines
20:56:00 <Wolf01> ask sacro for beautiful girls ;)
20:56:04 <Jolteon> One of the staff at Kings Cross station earlier today had a rather nice bottom.
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20:58:19 <TrueBrain> SmatZ: they don't animate ...
20:58:41 <TrueBrain> Wolf01: then he sents me an other expensive bill ... 51 times are enough :p
20:59:13 <Eddi|zuHause> hm... i fear another harddrive is failing, this time an older one
21:01:07 <Wolf01> lol, nice commit message, TrueBrain, for r14659 :D
21:01:47 <TrueBrain> I can be funny ;) :p Tnx :)
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21:08:50 <TrueBrain> LOL! and now I get porn sites PMd to me ..
21:10:22 <Eddi|zuHause> err... sorry, system failure speaking out of me... gotta reboot
21:11:25 <TrueBrain> 75G hmp/ ... it is a tiny bit big :p
21:21:56 <RvGaTe> hmm, stable version does not have presignals?
21:22:40 <RvGaTe> oh wait, it does.. not just a clear menu for it
21:23:28 <Eddi|zuHause> i thought it already had the signal gui... you just have to enable it
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21:38:44 <TrueBrain> bleh, why is it always on a Sunday evening that I run out of nice movies to watch
21:39:58 <Eddi|zuHause> you have enough "nice" movies to watch all week?
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21:40:36 <TrueBrain> Eddi|zuHause: hehe, no, not really .. just then there are TV series and such :p
21:41:09 <Eddi|zuHause> then the reason is, there are no series on saturdays, so you can't watch any on sundays
21:41:31 <Rubidium> there's Top Gear to watch
21:42:16 <Eddi|zuHause> the only shows on saturdays are british ones, like doctor who... and those don't last for a full year...
21:42:27 <Eddi|zuHause> there is merlin, currently, though
21:43:18 <Wolf01> I wish there's Little Britain on some channel
21:43:26 <TrueBrain> I stopped watching Merling after ..6 episodes or so
21:43:28 <TrueBrain> got a tiny bit boring
21:43:40 <Eddi|zuHause> it's not that bad...
21:43:43 <TrueBrain> like the new season of The IT Crowd ..
21:44:17 <Eddi|zuHause> it's certainly better than other new stuff... like... knight rider...
21:44:18 <TrueBrain> well, I guess it is time to watch WALL-E
21:44:55 <TrueBrain> Knight Rider (2008) is cool
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21:45:16 <Eddi|zuHause> who stealz ma internets!
21:46:10 <Eddi|zuHause> wall-e is a stupid movie...
21:46:27 <TrueBrain> different people give a different opinion on it
21:46:33 <TrueBrain> so I guess .. I just need to watch it to make mine :p
21:46:52 <TrueBrain> even more as my computer is busy calculating 75 GiB of data ... so it is not like I have any thing better to do :)
21:46:58 <Eddi|zuHause> what i particularly enjoyed this season is true blood
21:48:21 <Eddi|zuHause> and yes, knight rider has hot babes... but that's just not what knight rider should be about...
21:49:09 <Eddi|zuHause> they could have made Baywatch (2008) instead...
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22:55:05 <TrueBrain> omg, WALL-E is even worse than I expected ...
22:56:13 *** ProfFrink has joined #openttd
22:56:50 <Eddi|zuHause> is it too early to say "i told you so"? :p
22:57:38 <TrueBrain> but without looking, you can't have an opinion :)
22:57:47 <TrueBrain> (well .. doesn't hold for all things, but for movies in general it does :p)
23:02:19 *** ProfFrink is now known as Prof_Frink
23:02:35 <SmatZ> TrueBrain: it's not bad, it's cute :)
23:04:24 <TrueBrain> it is cute, yes, I give you that :)
23:06:49 <Eddi|zuHause> 20 minutes without any word spoken...
23:07:00 <Eddi|zuHause> the last movie that had that was 28 days later :p
23:08:02 <TrueBrain> my first laugh on the movie after 45 minutes :p
23:08:29 <TrueBrain> hmm .. my application that was running for the last 2 hours just segfaulted ..
23:08:59 <SmatZ> sleep(7200) ; *(int*)0 = 0;
23:14:12 <TrueBrain> so I guess I should rerun it with -g and gdb attached ... boring
23:48:53 <benjamingoodger> tired(Benjamin).
23:52:14 <benjamingoodger> chain-breaker!
23:54:52 <TrueBrain> well, that was a nice movie .. kind of ... or something
23:55:17 <TrueBrain> lol .. then you trace an error .. and it ends up 'mmap' failing .. sigh ...
23:59:00 <TrueBrain> hmm .. worse .. 'open' failing to open a file 'readdir' detected .. how nice :(
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