IRC logs for #openttd on OFTC at 2008-11-15
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00:42:29 <Patrick> here's a worrying thing
00:42:48 <Patrick> in the real world, iron ore is turned into steel via the use of coke
00:42:53 <Eddi|zuHause2> yes, you are very worrying
00:42:58 <Patrick> i.e. a source of combustible carbon
00:43:16 <Patrick> in transport tycoon, blast furnaces instead consume ore and ... people
00:43:37 <Patrick> I did, couldn't get the hang of it
00:43:41 <Patrick> I think I remember enjoying it
00:43:48 <Patrick> I'm just saying, I won't send people to a firey death
00:44:17 <Eddi|zuHause2> "a railway consists of 5% iron and 95% people"
00:49:53 <Patrick> there's a grain of truth in that.
00:54:22 <vraa> ttd needs orbital transporting
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01:35:21 <ccfreak2k> <Patrick> in transport tycoon, blast furnaces instead consume ore and ... people
01:35:28 <ccfreak2k> Are they really programmed to "consume" passengers?
01:36:25 <benjamingoodger> gotta consume something
01:36:28 <Patrick> steel mills accept iron ore and passengers
01:40:00 <ln> it's especially suspicious if they produce less than consume.
01:41:37 <benjamingoodger> I suppose if they're not accepting coal
01:41:51 <benjamingoodger> they have to burn some sort of carbon compound to generate carbon monoxide
01:41:57 <benjamingoodger> people are as good as anything...
01:47:22 <benjamingoodger> it's 2C + O2 -> 2CO; CO + FeO -> Fe + CO2, isn't it?
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02:29:55 <theholyduck> you need more than iron and heat to make steel though
02:30:09 <theholyduck> i SEEM to remember you need 10-20% FeSi
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08:43:35 <Patrick> steel requires low carbon in fact
08:43:54 <Patrick> so after making iron, you bubble oxygen through it to remove the residual carbon
08:44:06 <Patrick> otherwise you get brittle cast iron
08:44:14 <Patrick> good for drain covers, not for buildings
08:50:00 <duckzor> Patrick, my point is still valid though. you need some sort of alloy material to make steel
08:50:08 <duckzor> and i know FeSi is used for that sort of thing
08:51:03 <duckzor> not to mention the biproduct of FeSi production is a dust used to make concrete stronger.
08:52:42 <duckzor> i was way wrong on the %'age
08:53:16 <duckzor> 0.75%-1.5% si in steel :P
08:53:53 <duckzor> for stainless that is
08:54:13 <Patrick> I imagine that's more of a tolerable or useful side-effect of mining iron ore from silicates
08:54:49 <planetmaker> stainless uses cromium. not silicon
08:55:07 <duckzor> planetmaker, stainless uses both :p
08:55:21 <duckzor> rather there is a percentage of silicon in stainless and any steel
08:56:32 <planetmaker> you notice that your link doesn't support silicon as inclusion?
08:56:38 <duckzor> well i wasnt arguing for that
08:56:45 <duckzor> i dont want FeSi industries
08:56:52 <duckzor> it would be pointless
08:57:11 <duckzor> im just saying in the real world they use FeSi to make steel
08:58:20 <planetmaker> it's all numb people who wrote those articles, I guess :P
08:59:19 <planetmaker> doesn't mean it cannot be done though
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09:00:32 <duckzor> One metric ton of steel contains approximately 3-4 kilograms of FeSi, whereas one metric ton ot stainless steel contains approximately 20 kilograms of FeSi. Hence, we are always surrounded by products containing ferrosilicon.
09:00:45 <duckzor> and now lets discuss something intresting instead :P
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11:02:48 <Eddi|zuHause2> why does LaTeX turn ">" into a "¿"?
11:02:52 *** Eddi|zuHause2 is now known as Eddi|zuHause
11:04:25 <Rubidium> because it assumes a spanish codepage?
11:08:12 <Eddi|zuHause> \usepackage[utf8]{inputenc}
11:08:12 <Eddi|zuHause> \usepackage{ngerman}
11:08:23 <Eddi|zuHause> does not look like i'm telling it to use spanish :p
11:10:21 <Patrick> so, er, whereabouts is the autoreplace gui? I've used it before, I just lost it
11:10:49 <Eddi|zuHause> vehicle list -> manage list -> replace vehicles
11:12:53 <Patrick> I played the historical angle, now i have 50 kirby paul tanks
11:16:55 <Alberth> Eddi|zuHause: you should use > in math mode ( $>$ )
11:17:25 <Gekz> I can't see a use for LaTeX
11:17:31 <Gekz> other than random typesetting
11:17:46 <Gekz> but why would you be typing > in it if it's not maths
11:18:06 <Eddi|zuHause> Alberth: can i override that somewhere, that i can leave out the $ $?
11:18:22 <Alberth> Gekz: that's why it is mapped to some (apparently) common spanish char
11:19:18 <Gekz> that's not a good reason either
11:19:29 <Alberth> Eddi|zuHause: what do you use the char for?
11:20:15 <Eddi|zuHause> i'm writing a draft for my diploma thesis, and out of reflex i type stuff like "->"
11:20:30 <Alberth> Eddi|zuHause: $\rightarrow$ :)
11:20:42 <Eddi|zuHause> doesn't help with my reflexes :p
11:21:12 <Alberth> Eddi|zuHause: you can do a search/replace afterwards
11:26:04 <Alberth> Eddi|zuHause: To make > a normal character, you have to override default char code mappings. I have no idea how unfortunately. You'll have to read the TeX book by Knuth.
11:27:38 <Alberth> Well, I once had a system with a programmable keyboard, there you simply remap > to $>$ in the keyboard :)
11:29:33 <Zuu> That would be a bit anoying if you would write > for any other reason than typing it in LaTeX.
11:29:52 <Zuu> Other than if you put the macro on some other key than the usual place ofcourse.
11:31:24 <Zuu> I could eaisily just put it on shift + any number, so it won't override any existing stuff (I don't have anything on shift+ number). Normal Qwerty-folks could put it on Alt Gr + any letter.
11:32:00 <Patrick> Zuu: what about ... punctuation?
11:32:28 <Zuu> Patrick: What punctuation?
11:32:45 <Patrick> ah, ok, you're on a non-thingy keyboard
11:35:11 <Eddi|zuHause> AltGr+letter has some @łŋđħ¶€ŧ stuff predefined here :p
11:35:40 <Zuu> And how often do you use them?
11:35:56 <Eddi|zuHause> i'd rather have greek letters there
11:36:12 <Eddi|zuHause> but i haven't got around to modifying the keymap
11:36:12 <Alberth> Eddi|zuHause: yeah, I was also thinking that
11:56:30 <Patrick> I use alpha and beta lot
11:57:35 <Eddi|zuHause> i'll be using \lambda and \epsilon a lot
11:57:50 <Eddi|zuHause> or rather, \varepsilon
12:08:54 <billy6> are there any programmers?
12:09:49 <dihedral> billy6, what is your real question?
12:10:08 <SmatZ> someone with similiar nick to your :-P
12:11:13 <DorpsGek> dihedral: I have not seen batty5.
12:11:18 <DorpsGek> dihedral: batti5 was last seen in #openttd 1 week, 1 day, 19 hours, 29 minutes, and 59 seconds ago: <Batti5> a talking program?
12:11:47 <billy6> no, sry, I'm not batti5... if i wanted to write an opengl program, which needs data from openttd to draw the landscape, how would i do it?
12:12:58 <dihedral> there is an opengl thread in the forums
12:14:04 <Zuu> try searching for opengl in general openttd forum.
12:14:26 <Zuu> could be devforum or suggestions forum too.
12:14:55 <dihedral> tt-forums does have a search function
12:15:01 <dihedral> and there is still google
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12:27:44 <billy6> ok, thank you very much, i think i found something
12:50:22 <duckzor> this small airport thingy is starting to annoy me
12:51:09 * duckzor starts a new 3d model to do while hes being cross with the airpot
12:51:20 *** duckzor is now known as theholyduck
13:03:03 <Antdovu> you know you code too much when you wake up in the morning and think that your room is a .cpp file and your bed is a particular function...
13:03:47 <Antdovu> fortunately my nightmares don't include any segmentation faults
13:03:55 <Antdovu> at least I don't remember any...
13:04:06 <SmatZ> when I played TTD a lot, I had dreams about it, and saw squared world (like - bed has 3 squares, table 2 squares, ...)
13:05:04 <Antdovu> yeah, I used to try different combinations of tracks in my head without wanting to think about it
13:07:41 <theholyduck> whenever i've been modeling alot
13:07:47 <theholyduck> and do something i dont wanna do
13:07:48 <Zuu> I've only dreamed about enhancing railway junctions :)
13:07:56 <theholyduck> i instinctivly do ctrl+z
13:08:27 <Alberth> I once bicycled home, and while thinking about a problem at work, turned left one street too early. At the moment I realized it, I thought 'hmm, this is the wrong sub-directory' :)
13:08:57 <theholyduck> i cant decide WHAT i wanna model for the 32bpp project :P
13:09:10 <theholyduck> all the really good stuff is either airports. wich im currently bored of
13:09:19 <Patrick> Alberth: did you instinctively try to punch backspace or type "cd .."
13:09:42 <Patrick> I got called on something like that once, I was trying to see something far away and my pinkie twitched as if I was going to press "z"
13:09:54 <Alberth> Patrick: no, I thought, he this thing has a backdoor to the right street
13:11:25 <Alberth> and I thought a while how that would map to real FS directory structure :P
13:14:27 <Zuu> Last weird dream was about enhancing the luggage system at our major airport, after having been there at a study visit there with a class in air traffic planing I am taking. Quite impressive sytem actually.
13:16:57 <SmatZ> joins before split are cause of jams
13:17:09 <SmatZ> every day I travel by bus I see examples of that
13:17:28 <SmatZ> if the designers played TTD, they knew this has to be avoided
13:17:34 <theholyduck> SmatZ, well sure.
13:17:40 <theholyduck> but the problem with cities
13:17:43 <theholyduck> is that once they are built
13:17:44 <Zuu> For luggage that does not have an exit open they store the luggage downstairs in a luggage hotel, all automatic. :)
13:17:48 <theholyduck> you need a good war to rearange the streets
13:18:15 <SmatZ> theholyduck: I was kidding a bit ;) also, you are money-limited :)
13:18:49 <theholyduck> SmatZ, just enforce communism for a bit. declare war on your neighbours. have them bomb your cities and then force your people into building better city layouts
13:19:09 <theholyduck> though a bit elaborate just to speed up bus travel
13:19:25 <SmatZ> theholyduck: well, even during communism this wasn't possible :-P
13:19:40 <theholyduck> SmatZ, well alternative nr2.
13:19:47 <theholyduck> invade all the worlds third world countries
13:19:51 <theholyduck> and reimplent slavery
13:20:14 <SmatZ> I don't think there was ever slavery :)
13:20:35 <Prof_Frink> Alberth: A backdoor to another directory? That'd be a symlink.
13:20:57 <theholyduck> nothing is impossible as long as you got determination. strenght and a endless supply of expendable labor!
13:21:04 <theholyduck> SmatZ, and what do you mean. there was no slavery?
13:21:17 <theholyduck> there ALWAYS was slavery
13:22:21 <Alberth> Prof_Frink: not really, symlinks still follows the dir structure. I think you'd end up with a graph, like a set of Wiki pages (although at the time I had never seen a Wiki).
13:22:23 <theholyduck> everyone did it :D
13:22:58 <Antdovu> everyone knows that you can use slavery to turn population into hammers but not beakers.
13:23:32 <theholyduck> maybe i should model a airplane :P
13:24:01 <theholyduck> Antdovu, well 32bpp doesnt really ned unicorns
13:24:23 <theholyduck> well last time i checked there wasnt any unicorns in the original ttd?
13:24:38 <Antdovu> it's a feature request
13:24:41 <theholyduck> so why would 32bpp openttd need it?
13:24:43 * SmatZ wonders if "Slavic people" have something to do with "being slaves"
13:24:56 <Antdovu> there weren't any trams either, were there? ;)
13:25:05 <theholyduck> Antdovu, well trams are USEFULL
13:25:13 <theholyduck> im all for the implementation of the invisible pink unicorn thouhg
13:25:29 <theholyduck> but since its allready there
13:25:38 <Antdovu> ok, let's merge the ideas
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13:26:01 <Eddi|zuHause> i think my head is exploding...
13:26:16 <theholyduck> Eddi|zuHause, cut the blue wire!
13:26:21 <theholyduck> or was it the red one?
13:26:38 <theholyduck> just cut the bugger!
13:27:01 <Zuu> Could possible tak 2 pax.
13:27:41 <Alberth> and castles as cities
13:28:08 <Antdovu> more than 2 if we consider it a Trojan unicorn
13:29:44 <Antdovu> ok, I'll stop with the unicorns for a few hours :)
13:30:36 <theholyduck> the vickers is the coolest one with no model
13:30:42 <theholyduck> pluss everyone loves the vickers
13:30:47 <theholyduck> thus finding some good reference should be easy
13:32:55 <theholyduck> actually there is a webpage that has like 3k pics of vickers
13:32:55 * vvv444 wonders why Arctic climate has no oil rigs
13:33:15 <theholyduck> i took vickers nr1
13:33:21 <theholyduck> the first one they made
13:33:30 <theholyduck> 27 pics of just that one
13:33:46 <theholyduck> perfect side and front shots even
13:48:05 <yorick> the PACKET_SERVER_COMMAND should always end with a bool, right?
14:03:30 <yorick> 00020411100000000000000000817c000000003803000008 <-- this is the content, but I can't understand it...
14:03:52 <planetmaker> hm.... is there a limit on the number of grfs the grf selection dialogue can handle?
14:07:10 <Antdovu> there definitely is :P
14:07:58 <Antdovu> I just don't know a reasonable upper bound
14:08:59 * Rubidium would vote for something around 600 ;)
14:10:01 <Antdovu> looking at code isn't fair :P
14:10:11 <yorick> it seems to be company 0, cmd 269550594(&0xFF), p1 0, p2 0, tile 31873, text '', callback 0, frame 824, my_cmd 8?
14:10:23 <Rubidium> Antdovu: I'm not looking at code
14:10:42 <Rubidium> if I would've done that I'd've said that the limit is around 65536
14:11:16 <Rubidium> the 600 is merely the number of "notable" NewGRFs
14:11:24 <yorick> anything until p2 seems to make sense
14:12:09 <Ammler> Rubidium: do you have faster connection now?
14:12:33 <Ammler> would be really happy about such a list :-)
14:18:52 <Patrick> what rev number are we up to now?
14:19:48 <DorpsGek> yorick: bug, bugs, changed, commit, download, grf, grfs, info, port, ports, propset, servers, svn, thelog, and youngest
14:19:56 <DorpsGek> yorick: latest: r14578
14:20:34 <Patrick> it was 3000 the last time I did any work on it :P
14:21:43 <planetmaker> [15:08] * Rubidium would vote for something around 600 ;) <-- because not all were displayed after I added two full versions of our grf pack :)
14:21:53 <planetmaker> it ended somewhere around entries starting with 's'
14:22:49 <Rubidium> I don't know of any restriction
14:25:12 <planetmaker> I'll have a closer look :)
14:30:12 <planetmaker> hm... cannot reproduce it.
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14:33:51 <planetmaker> maybe I was just too stupid to scrol
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14:36:24 <Ammler> GTS should not count as NewGRF
14:37:49 <Ammler> it was distributed with ottd and it is used on many servers alon.
14:38:07 <yorick> it is only distributed on stable releases
14:38:32 <petern> of course it 'counts as newgrf'
14:38:57 <yorick> servers with only GTS should not count as GRF-enabled server...
14:40:03 <Patrick> if you have a version of ottd that is capable of joining a server using GTS, then it can load GTS
14:40:15 <Patrick> but that's no guarantee
14:42:03 <Ammler> ah, forget it, it is ok. It was just a "wild" thought. No worth to discuss about.
14:43:01 <yorick> could anyone help me with the command problem?
14:47:26 <Patrick> Ammler: it's a thought
14:49:17 <Ammler> Patrick: that was for peter
14:50:45 <Ammler> my thought had nothing to do with technical things, it was just statistics
14:51:26 <Ammler> GTS is like openttd[w|d].grf
14:53:06 <Ammler> (to be fair to other tram grfs)
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15:22:29 <welshdragon> if you'll help me :)
15:22:37 <yorick> with my failure to understand the network protocol in case of the PACKET_SERVER_COMMAND
15:22:44 <yorick> and what's your problem?
15:23:31 <welshdragon> my query is if i put an entry presignal before a junction, will the junction be kept clear until there's a path?
15:23:50 <welshdragon> alas, i can't help you with yoyr problem
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15:39:55 <Eddi|zuHause> welshdragon: entry signals are not path signals
15:40:28 <welshdragon> i just need to keep some junctions clear
15:40:49 <Eddi|zuHause> the old block signals don't care about paths, they check wether the block is clear
15:41:46 <Eddi|zuHause> with block signals, you use entry and exit signals to keep the junction clear, with path signals, you place only a signal at the entrance, and at the exit you leave 1 train length space before the next signal
15:46:12 <Eddi|zuHause> note that entrance and exit block signals are meant for very simple junctions, they fail when the junctions get too complex
15:56:16 <welshdragon> i have a flat crossover junction that's all, i just wondered if a entry signal would keep it clear
16:10:15 <Eddi|zuHause> entry signals do nothing special if you don't have matching exit signals
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16:55:28 <yorick> why does CmdMoneyCheat have a special networking check, as it is already a CMD_OFFLINE command?
17:00:27 <Antdovu> maybe it stops it from working if I modify my client?
17:00:40 <Antdovu> (didn't look at the code)
17:00:45 <yorick> Antdovu, no, CMD_OFFLINE does that already
17:00:56 <yorick> but it does stop it from working if I modify my server
17:01:12 <yorick> which stops me from being a good control-freak
17:01:57 <Antdovu> anyway, that double check probably doesn't matter much in terms of performance
17:02:16 <Antdovu> not that having less code would be a bad idea
17:02:25 <Eddi|zuHause> i want my cheats to be ultra performant!!
17:02:45 <Eddi|zuHause> i click on them 1 million times per second!
17:03:48 <yorick> just a simple 1-million-times-per-second-button-clicker to give me the huge amount of money needed for copy-pasting a 2048x2048 map
17:03:59 <Eddi|zuHause> so you basically want to cheat yourself on the server, but not allow anyone else to cheat
17:04:38 <Eddi|zuHause> you could just add a few 0 to the code and then recompile :p
17:05:27 <yorick> no, I would like to allow multiple persons to cheat, in case other people like to flood the map
17:05:54 <yorick> so I can restore it with a small copy-paste without losing and player properties that might be on the map
17:07:19 <yorick> and to restore minor landscape terraforming ( hills that get flattened)
17:07:38 <Eddi|zuHause> so you really want a hot-replace-saveload
17:07:50 <yorick> I already have that, it just needs a lot of mony
17:08:48 <Eddi|zuHause> what if you instead add a no-money-flag or auto-restore-money to the copy paste (terraforming) routines?
17:09:15 <Eddi|zuHause> like some versions of autoreplace add some virtual money to play with, before doing the actual autoreplace
17:09:16 <yorick> then it wouldn't be really network compatible, would it
17:09:34 <Eddi|zuHause> why? the commands are run on all clients
17:09:45 <Eddi|zuHause> just have to ensure that hacked clients cannot cheat that way
17:10:21 <yorick> the hacks we use to run the server with some people godlike mode wouldn't get into openttd anyway
17:10:42 <Eddi|zuHause> or that you only publish the hacked version to the people you trust ;)
17:11:19 <yorick> the changes you suggest would require all clients to be patched
17:11:50 <Eddi|zuHause> hm, that might be necessary, indeed
17:12:57 <yorick> just the double-check removed, and it'd work
17:13:03 <Eddi|zuHause> i do remember a while back that people requested/wrote a patch to change the money transfer routines to generate money from a null-soruce
17:13:39 <yorick> autocleaned companies could be the null-source
17:14:26 <yorick> they have about max_money/2 :p
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17:31:38 <Eddi|zuHause> it must really suck if they misspell your name that badly, Aali ;)
17:32:16 <Eddi|zuHause> well, i->y, y->z, aal->all ;)
17:32:30 <Aali> Eddi|zuHause: i didn't really look at it that way, but sure
17:33:18 <Avdg> are some people ready to think, cause i maybe a very difficult treath
17:33:55 <Eddi|zuHause> one?? thousands!!
17:34:36 <Avdg> should i give the nicks...
17:35:06 <Avdg> aaa, alehyx, andyBot,...
17:36:20 *** Avdg was kicked by DorpsGek (Wrong channel. Retry in #openttdcoop.)
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17:40:49 <Avdg> why is this happends so often the last year :/
17:41:14 <Eddi|zuHause> this what happened?
17:41:47 <Avdg> already saw joinspamming... but not this personal attack :/
17:42:53 <Eddi|zuHause> btw, did anybody click on that link, and find out how dangerous it is?
17:42:58 <Avdg> i've started a topic on forum... but its realy for the openttd coders...
17:45:15 <Antdovu> I use pidgin, it sucks
17:46:06 <Patrick> no matter how dilligently I service my oil wells, they still dry up
17:46:39 <Antdovu> it is a personal attack on you
17:47:06 <Eddi|zuHause> oil wells do never increase production, and close after 1980
17:47:12 <Eddi|zuHause> use oil rigs instead
17:47:25 <Avdg> i am happy: kvirc has an option, close all queries :D
17:47:38 <dihedral> Antdovu, xchat and irssi ;-)
17:48:35 <Avdg> hum... im making an example for my topic :p
17:49:15 <Antdovu> for some reason I don't like adding programs
17:49:36 <Antdovu> and my current IRC client already works, just somehwta annoyingly :P
17:50:20 <Antdovu> no idea how I managed type that permutation
17:52:05 <Avdg> i am minimalising with programs atm... only trouble... the best programs are mostly heavy and slow programs
17:53:13 <Patrick> I built my economy on OIL!
17:53:30 <Patrick> bwaha, I love the challenge
17:54:03 <Eddi|zuHause> well, clearly, "windows" and "word" are definitely "best"
17:55:00 <Zuu> Well, word is not that power hungry. But try make a heavy regex-search in word with ViEmu. :-)
17:55:12 <Antdovu> I have linux on dual boot but I rarely use it because vista takes ages to boot
17:55:38 <Aali> Antdovu: then dont boot vista ;)
17:55:38 <Antdovu> and I am too lazy to install the complete stack of necessary programs on linux
17:56:10 <Zuu> Antdovu: Why do don't use Linux beacues vista boots slow??
17:56:22 <Antdovu> (5:55:12 PM) Antdovu: and I am too lazy to install the complete stack of necessary programs on linux
17:56:45 <Eddi|zuHause> i have specifically decided against dual boot when i switched to linux
17:56:52 <Aali> well, you could replace vista with something lighter, like XP
17:56:58 <Eddi|zuHause> kind of like ditch into the cold water
17:57:12 <Antdovu> tuxracer doesn't count
17:57:13 <Eddi|zuHause> plenty of games on linux
17:57:29 <Antdovu> what's that? never heard of it
17:57:32 <Eddi|zuHause> i even got civ4 running on wine
17:57:49 <Eddi|zuHause> i later did install a windows, for lan parties etc.
17:57:51 <Antdovu> interesting that you'd say that
17:57:59 <Zuu> Dual boot sucks. But both systems have their strengths that are hard to live without.
17:58:09 <Antdovu> I have a BTS game in the background at the moment :P
17:58:27 <Eddi|zuHause> but i boot into the windows only like once or twice a year
17:58:58 <Eddi|zuHause> yes... civ is... very addictive...
17:58:59 <Aali> its easier when you have two computers, one windows, the other linux ;)
17:59:26 <Antdovu> well, I am often in the computer lab with my laptop, plenty of extra computers to use :P
17:59:30 <Zuu> Eddi|zuHause: So you never watch TV or movies on demand?
17:59:35 * Rubidium wonders what was the last time he needed Windows
17:59:55 <Eddi|zuHause> i always watch TV, that's what i have kaffeine for...
18:00:22 <Eddi|zuHause> and certain definitions of "movies on demand" ;)
18:00:50 <Eddi|zuHause> i don't have the bandwidth for any kind of streaming video
18:01:07 * Rubidium knows that the last time there was Windows on one of my computers is roughly 4.5 years ago, which is due to it being preinstalled on my laptop
18:01:15 <Eddi|zuHause> even youtube is hardly possible
18:01:52 <Eddi|zuHause> i mean bandwidth-wise
18:02:04 <Rubidium> just download the .flvs and run them in mplayer ;)
18:02:22 <Eddi|zuHause> yeah, something like that ;)
18:02:41 <Rubidium> gives you much more, better and quicker control over the playback
18:03:09 <yorick> (repeat) why does CmdMoneyCheat have a special networking check, as it is already a CMD_OFFLINE command?
18:03:45 <Eddi|zuHause> yeah, i hate those embedded flash players
18:04:03 <Avdg> but it will be a bad idea i guess
18:04:51 <Eddi|zuHause> what are the odds of something good coming out of the suggestions forum? :p
18:05:19 <Rubidium> Eddi|zuHause: near 0 as it's such utter crap that I don't even spend time reading it
18:05:31 <Aali> Avdg: is the MASSIVE rewrite worth it?
18:05:42 <DaleStan> Epsilon. That or delta; I can never remember which is which.
18:05:48 <Aali> oh and YAPF already works with segments, much like you've illustrated
18:05:52 <Avdg> im new on english forum :p
18:06:12 <Patrick> Rubidium: perhaps if you changed to a 3d engine and introduced shooter/RPG elements
18:06:24 <Avdg> close that topic if it doesnt make sense :p
18:06:46 <Patrick> Avdg: end of the day, the pathfinder isn't the bottleneck
18:06:54 <Eddi|zuHause> Avdg: maybe you should talk to Tekky, he has played around a bit with alternate ways of reservations
18:07:10 <Aali> Patrick: rendering doesn't bog down servers though
18:07:18 <Avdg> I am learning C++ by reading the code...
18:07:28 <Eddi|zuHause> especially multiple types of reservation on the same tile (strong/weak/etc.)
18:07:32 <Avdg> so i think that will say enough
18:08:09 <Avdg> i am thinking on reservations like rl
18:08:15 <Eddi|zuHause> what is the main bottleneck of PBS, though, is the repeated reservation attempts when waiting on a red signal
18:08:19 <Avdg> but that will be hard :p
18:08:31 <Aali> "fixing" ship pathfinding might be a better idea
18:08:54 <Patrick> adding one ship makes the game slow down?
18:09:17 <Avdg> no, long distance between buoys slows down...
18:09:29 <Aali> nah, the old pathfinder performs okay, but thats because its not really doing much pathfinding
18:09:35 <Aali> so you have to place bouys
18:11:06 <Eddi|zuHause> well, suggestion for buoys, since we already have boost/bgl in cargodest, build up a graph of all buoys, and statically store the path between any two (adjacent) buoys
18:11:34 <Eddi|zuHause> then ship pathfinding only has to care about which buoys to pass
18:11:57 <Aali> you shouldn't *need* bouys though
18:11:59 <Eddi|zuHause> placing a buoy or modifying territory might be expensive, though
18:12:06 <Aali> the pathfinder should be able to manage without them
18:12:15 <Avdg> should there be a new event at pbs... if an train left a cross or signal, that the pbs should check it again
18:12:26 <Avdg> that other trains can reserve
18:12:43 <Eddi|zuHause> Avdg: yes, listener pattern, but where to store?
18:13:11 <Eddi|zuHause> you can't store it in the map array
18:13:27 <Eddi|zuHause> so you need some kind of reservation pool
18:13:58 <Eddi|zuHause> "pool" is ottd's version of a dynamic array
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18:14:32 <Eddi|zuHause> there's a station pool, a vehicle pool, an industry pool, etc.
18:14:34 <Avdg> that the game make it in begin, it will take some more loading time...
18:15:50 <Avdg> so if a train left a special item... (entered station, left signal, jucntion, ...) it should find the pbssignals...
18:16:07 <Avdg> and ask 1 of the pbssignal to calculate...
18:16:28 <Aali> sounds like a small improvement over the current situation
18:16:32 <Avdg> but i dont know how the pbs choose his signal to calculate
18:16:34 <Eddi|zuHause> yes, but you must consider that this must be faster than the train recalculating the path every tick
18:16:37 <Aali> you still have to start over every time
18:17:01 <Eddi|zuHause> and the possibly affected PBS signals may be much larger
18:17:10 <Eddi|zuHause> it needs a reverse pathfinder
18:17:15 <Avdg> that pathfinders can tell wich exit he may not take...
18:17:24 <Eddi|zuHause> you need all signals that can lead to this tile
18:17:45 <Eddi|zuHause> whereas trains only reuse the existing pathfinder
18:18:08 <Eddi|zuHause> which has an additional return value if it crossed an existing reservation
18:18:18 <Avdg> so he can skip when the trains where the cleared junction is only that one he cant take
18:18:25 <Eddi|zuHause> and then sets the signal to red
18:18:30 <Eddi|zuHause> or rather, to not green
18:20:07 <Avdg> i was actually thinking on an other way to unreservate...
18:22:27 <Avdg> isnt there any svn system in the microsoft c++ editor?
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18:32:04 <davis-> did you mean horny? @google
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19:00:57 <ln> i press "bj<tab>" and nothing happens
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19:09:27 <Eddi|zuHause> ln: there must be a conspiracy
19:10:46 <DorpsGek> petern: bjarni was last seen in #openttd 1 week, 0 days, 21 hours, 42 minutes, and 43 seconds ago: <Bjarni> <ln-> well, good to see you back amongst the healthy, in any case. <-- sort off.... I'm totally tired and I missed everything at uni this week
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19:24:16 <Lord_Vider> need help with TTD
19:24:41 <welshdragon> Lord_Vider, is it technical?
19:24:50 <welshdragon> and can you speak english?
19:25:02 <ln> he's from belarus, interesting. so they do have internets.
19:25:13 <welshdragon> ok, what's your problem?
19:25:58 <welshdragon> Lord_Vider, ignore his witty remarks,
19:26:10 <Lord_Vider> after start its write some kind of "Couldnt find font"
19:26:37 <welshdragon> which game? openttd?
19:26:39 <Lord_Vider> and i see only "????? ??? ??? ???" but words
19:26:51 <ln> welshdragon: i mean seriously, belarus is perhaps the most "closed" country in europe.
19:27:12 <Lord_Vider> ->ln<- r u from moon?
19:27:18 <yorick> yes, they only have ? in belarus
19:27:38 <welshdragon> but that's not what we're here for
19:27:38 <yorick> unless you use another font
19:28:12 <Lord_Vider> ok, how change lang???
19:29:29 <ln> Lord_Vider: belarus is not a closed country?
19:31:26 <Eddi|zuHause> Lord_Vider: maybe you should look in the readme, it has a part about what to do when you only see "???"
19:31:39 <ln> Lord_Vider: for example, your president is banned from travelling to European Union, even as a tourist. no?
19:32:04 <Eddi|zuHause> Lord_Vider: no, you are the first person to ever encounter this problem...
19:32:05 <Lord_Vider> yes. but its not disturbing me
19:33:03 <Lord_Vider> ->Eddi|zuHause<- maybe havent this part.... there is nor
19:35:16 <vvv444> Hey, was tram logic for choosing stop when several available on same station ever considered/discussed?
19:35:36 <welshdragon> Lord_Vider, (from the readme (look in your opennttd file) With the added support for font-based text selecting a non-latin language will result in garbage (lots of '?') shown on screen. Please open your configuration file and add a desired font for small/medium/-and large_font. This can be a font name like "Tahoma" or a path to a font.
19:35:40 <Antdovu> vvv444: yes, it chooses the worst one
19:35:40 <Eddi|zuHause> "[...] will result in garbage (lots of '?') shown on screen. [...]" <- how about this section?
19:35:45 <welshdragon> now anything else./
19:36:20 <Lord_Vider> ->Eddi|zuHause<- danke, i'm donkey :)
19:36:21 <Eddi|zuHause> vvv444: the multistop feature was not (yet) updated for drive through stops
19:36:33 <vvv444> Antdovu: I hope you're joking :) It seems that the nearest is chosen.
19:36:53 <Antdovu> even choosing a random one would be better...
19:37:13 <vvv444> Eddi|zuHause: Multistop? What is it?
19:37:20 <Eddi|zuHause> vvv444: it tries to reserve bays like with the other bus/truck stations, but it does not consider, that the 2nd bay is only accessible from the other side
19:37:27 <Lord_Vider> which configuration file ???
19:37:33 <Eddi|zuHause> so it gets suboptimal results, if already a bay is taken
19:37:47 <Eddi|zuHause> Lord_Vider: openttd.cfg
19:37:50 <Ammler> why do some GRF authors use bitswitch instead of multiple parameters?
19:38:09 <Eddi|zuHause> Ammler: because assembler programmers like bitswitches
19:38:31 <Eddi|zuHause> they have been trained to save and pack bits wherever possible
19:38:45 <Eddi|zuHause> indoctrinated, one could say
19:38:58 <Lord_Vider> ->Eddi|zuHause<- where is it?
19:39:04 <Ammler> but you agree it is less userfriendly?
19:39:08 <vvv444> Some try saving bit halves :)
19:39:18 <welshdragon> Lord_Vider, look in the directory you installed openttd
19:39:39 <welshdragon> c:\program files\openttd
19:39:50 <welshdragon> wherever you installed it
19:39:52 <Ammler> "1 0 1" looks better then "5"
19:39:53 <Eddi|zuHause> no, in my documents\openttd
19:40:52 <welshdragon> Eddi|zuHause, min'es in my instalattion directory... how... strange
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19:41:14 <Eddi|zuHause> when you run "openttd -d misc=3" from a cmd prompt, it should tell you the personal directory
19:42:01 <Eddi|zuHause> no, you clearly mean filesystemcheck :p
19:43:16 <Ammler> I thought about something like it was only possible to have one parameter at beginning of NewGRF
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20:45:18 <yorick> Rubidium, why does the cheat need to be disabled in multiplayer using the "double" check
20:45:32 <yorick> it can already not done by a client
20:45:59 <yorick> and there is no way to do that without debug or patching the server either
21:06:08 <Ammler> I have troubles to initialize the parameter with a default value, here param0 to 1
21:08:27 <Ammler> hmm, saturday night is a bad time ;-)
21:12:12 <Aali> did you set any other parameters before that?
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22:45:16 <Ammler> if I set the parameter to 1 it works
22:45:34 <Ammler> but if I don't, it doesn't
22:46:03 <Aali> well, did you set any parameters anywhere else?
22:46:09 <Ammler> but "0 * 0 0D 00 80 FF 00 \d1" should set it to 1 per default
22:46:23 <Ammler> only action8 is before
22:47:12 <Aali> hmm, dont know what it could be then
22:49:32 <Ammler> maybe I did escape wrong
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22:54:02 <Ammler> 0 * 0 0D 00 80 FF 00 01 00 00 00
22:55:35 <Ammler> the escapes will be "converted" by grfcodec?
22:55:57 <Aali> get a diff of the files, see whats going on
22:59:00 <Ammler> hmm, I finish my GRF first, will then make a small test
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23:36:26 <Antdovu> 0xffffffff bottles of beer on the wall
23:38:08 <Antdovu> yeah, the mere sight of it can cause ping timeouts
23:40:02 <welshdragon> Antdovu, the meer sight of you does that :P
23:43:40 <Antdovu> I am quite frightening :)
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23:49:12 <Antdovu> don't let the unicorns fool you :P
23:52:52 <Eddi|zuHause> i meant: remove the "quite" from the sentence :P
23:54:09 <Antdovu> that's more like it :P
continue to next day ⏵
