IRC logs for #openttd on OFTC at 2008-11-08
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00:13:29 <Char> how does only replacing old vehicles work?
00:13:35 <Char> if i set sth on autoreplace
00:13:43 <Char> all vehicles are automatically sent to the depot
00:15:11 <Rubidium> breakdowns disabled + don't go to depot when breakdowns disabled enabled + service order + conditional order to jump over the service order if the vehicle is too young
00:18:46 <Edtein> exactly what would make openttd crash when using DoCommandP to create ~20+ vehicles in a loop?
00:20:06 <Eddi|zuHause> i'd say creating ~20+ vehicles in a loop
00:20:29 <Eddi|zuHause> ... the wrong way
00:21:00 <Eddi|zuHause> Hello, my name is Eddi, and i am an addict...
00:21:33 <Edtein> well, 15 at a time works
00:21:43 <tokai> Welcome to the anonymous OpenTTD players round table!
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00:24:28 <Edtein> is it possible that cloning too many vehicles at a time makes it open too many windows & then some buffer overflows?
00:27:00 <davis--> never experienced that
00:27:33 <Eddi|zuHause> i thought 32 was the max number of viewports
00:27:52 <Rubidium> Eddi|zuHause: but it should delete windows before it ever reaches that
00:27:58 <Jango> i've just been cloning like crazy, but it didnt make it happen
00:28:04 <Jango> Edtein, how many clones are we talking?
00:28:10 <Eddi|zuHause> but when batch-creating vehicles, maybe you should simply suppress opening windows
00:30:16 <Edtein> how is it possible to suppress opening windows?
00:31:17 <Eddi|zuHause> there must be a line like "if (_current_company == _local_company) OpenWindow()"
00:31:58 <Eddi|zuHause> hm, no, it must be completely client side
00:32:27 <Eddi|zuHause> has anyone seen my connection?
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00:34:58 <Rubidium> Edtein: you are doing something horribly wrong; I can clone a vehicle of 20 long 500 times without any problems except a little lag
00:36:19 <Edtein> for(int i = 0; i < N; ++i)
00:36:19 <Edtein> DoCommandP(this->window_number, v->index, ctrl_pressed, CcCloneVehicle, CMD_CLONE_VEHICLE | error_str);
00:37:24 <Rubidium> works without problems for me
00:38:00 <Eddi|zuHause> i know why it doesn't work. it does not follow the code style :p
00:38:25 <Rubidium> this is a window and the window gets deleted, now guess what happens with this
00:40:39 <Edtein> it won't get deleted if it is set to uncloseable, will it?
00:40:58 <Rubidium> it's less likely, but not fool proof
00:41:21 <Eddi|zuHause> just put the number in a temporary variable
00:41:48 <Rubidium> opening max number of windows and making them unclosable will close one of the unclosables
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00:43:14 <Edtein> would make sense, but the new windows aren't marked as unclosable. only the depot window is
00:45:27 <Eddi|zuHause> my experience is that the depot window is always the first to close, but that was before sticky buttons got introduced
00:45:48 <Eddi|zuHause> the window limit has increased significantly since then
00:46:09 <Eddi|zuHause> i think it was like 7 in the original game
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00:50:41 <benjamingoodger> does anyone know why industries close randomly when opening savegames in 0.6.2? it seems only to be the ones I'm serving, so it's most irritating
00:59:01 <Rubidium> benjamingoodger: you've probably disabled the news for closure of competitors/unserved industries which might give you that feeling
01:00:29 <benjamingoodger> for instance, if I am supplying a factory with steel...
01:00:56 <benjamingoodger> I do not receive a "supply problems cause factory to announce closure" thing, despite having all messages at "full"
01:01:32 <benjamingoodger> I just get a "blah blah station no longer accepts steel, livestock or grain", and when I look there is a brown patch of land where the factory was when I saved the game
01:02:03 <Rubidium> it might already be in the closing state when you loaded the game
01:02:15 <Rubidium> are you using any newgrfs by the way?
01:03:38 <benjamingoodger> and yes, several...
01:03:48 <benjamingoodger> but the same ones as when I saved
01:08:19 <benjamingoodger> ok, I've just replayed the savegame
01:08:28 <benjamingoodger> the factory disappears at the beginning of a month
01:08:41 <Edtein> by the way: my elegant fix "//ShowVehicleViewWindow(v); " allowed me to create 500 vehicles instantly without problems
01:09:28 <Eddi|zuHause> no, it fixed the symptom, not the problem.
01:09:44 <Rubidium> Edtein: a local variable would've done *exactly* the same, but it wouldn't remove functionality
01:09:51 <Rubidium> benjamingoodger: what newgrfs?
01:12:00 <benjamingoodger> pb_viaduct, hovs uk bus set, newbridges, new large hq, newships, total town replacement, uk renewal set, uk renewal set addon
01:12:43 <Rubidium> then I've got absolutely no clue
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14:03:40 <Aperculum> do forests run out of wood eventually?
14:06:22 <Aperculum> faster than I can use it?
14:07:42 <petern> unless it's a subtropic sawmill
14:08:00 <Aperculum> well, I use the default terrain, don't know what it is
14:09:25 <Aperculum> seems to be temperate
14:14:15 <Edtein> how can I determine whether I have a valid vehicle pointer?
14:15:12 <frosch123> if (v != NULL && v->IsValid())
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14:27:25 <Aperculum> Edtein, wow, you're way ahead of me on this game :)
14:28:00 <Aperculum> I just got my first oil tanker system working
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15:28:53 <Aylomen> is it possible to have one data folder for more than one OpenTTD.exe?
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15:30:56 <Rubidium> yes + read the readme
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15:39:32 <Edtein> has there been a GUI structure change between 0.6 and trunk?
15:42:56 <glx> or maybe it was between 0.5 and 0.6
15:44:59 <Edtein> the depot gui window looks a lot friendlier in the current version
15:50:53 <arachnid> How do you calculate how many diagonals you need for a given TL train to avoid slowdowns?
15:51:00 <arachnid> And do you need to respect that length for an s-bend?
15:51:26 <davis> try and error i think ..
15:52:02 <arachnid> I have a test track, and the train slow down even on a 45 degree turn. Confusing.
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16:12:54 <SmatZ> arachnid: enable realistic acceleration
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16:30:45 <Chommik> how can I add language to OpenTTD?
16:32:56 <Chommik> i have version 0.6.3 linux generic binaries and i don't have polish
16:33:15 <Chommik> can i download it from CVS/SVN? is there something like this?
16:34:29 <Progman> how did you install it?
16:35:25 <Chommik> i unpacked it, copied files from windows version. it works, but don't have polish language
16:37:38 <frosch123> do you have a "lang" folder, where you unpacked it?
16:38:11 <Chommik> i have all binaries unpacked to /home/ttd
16:39:02 <frosch123> and was there also a "lang" folder in the archive? and did you also unpack that one?
16:39:26 <Chommik> yes, there was some other folders, unpacked it to ~/ttd too
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16:39:51 <Progman> [17:39] progman@proglap ~ $ tar -tzf openttd-0.6.3-linux-generic-amd64.tar.gz | grep polish.lng
16:39:51 <Progman> openttd-0.6.3-linux-generic-amd64/lang/polish.lng
16:39:59 <Progman> there is one lang file, so it should work
16:40:26 <Chommik> hmm, I found polish in binaries for windows, will it work?
16:40:38 <Progman> which file did you download?
16:41:12 <Eddi|zuHause> the .lng files should work ony any platform, but the version must match exactly
16:41:22 <Chommik> Linux Generic Binaries (i686, 32bit)
16:41:55 <Eddi|zuHause> in any case, the .lng files should already be in the download
16:42:09 <Progman> [17:42] progman@proglap ~ $ tar -tzf openttd-0.6.3-linux-generic-i686.tar.gz | grep polish
16:42:09 <Progman> openttd-0.6.3-linux-generic-i686/lang/polish.lng
16:42:35 <Chommik> ok, i have it. thanks!
16:42:43 <Progman> can you select any other language?
16:43:01 <Chommik> yes, i have long list
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16:44:26 <Progman> and there isn't an entry for "Polish"?
16:45:56 <Chommik> when i copied file polish.lng
16:47:56 <Chommik> thanks, but now i see one more problem: polish fonts
16:56:27 <Chommik> hmm, i try this from your wiki
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17:42:20 <Edtein> my clone patch works without any ugly (imho) hacks :-)
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18:19:54 <jnd> hi, I'm trying the UKRS and there is nothing for wood but Bolster Wagon for steel with note it can be rebuild to wood, but how?
18:20:29 <frosch123> attach it to a train, open the train window while it is inside a depot, and click on the icon with the two boxes
18:22:55 <Progman> its called "Cargo refit"
18:26:41 <jnd> right, I couldn't find it cos I don't have it in english
18:26:59 <Progman> the icon is the same o_O
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18:36:29 <De_Ghosty> open ttd can use muti core?
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18:38:19 <KurtKraut> I saw a wiki once teaching how to use PBS signals to make tracks 'reversable' for trains to reduce the traffic jam caused by breakdowns but I'm unable to find it. Does anyone know the URL of this wiki ?
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18:39:10 <Rubidium> KurtKraut: that is most likely the unimplemented 'realistic' PBS proposal
18:39:32 <Rubidium> De_Ghosty: it can use multiple cores, but most likely not in the way you expect it to do
18:39:37 <KurtKraut> Rubidium, I'm using the nightly build
18:40:09 <KurtKraut> Rubidium, even in the nightly build this is not implemented ?
18:41:15 <Rubidium> and if that's the page, then not everything shown on that page is implemented
18:41:36 <Rubidium> and it's pretty likely some things shown there don't even work with the current PBS
18:42:10 <KurtKraut> Rubidium, the funny thing is... it is not that page I saw. It was purpusing this realistic signal for reducing the impact of breakdowns. And this wiki you showed me does not contain the 'breakdown'.
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18:43:26 <Rubidium> then I've got no idea
18:44:26 <KurtKraut> Rubidium, is there a roadmap of this realistic signaling AI that I could follow ?
18:44:35 <KurtKraut> follow in order to do beta testing
18:46:17 <Rubidium> something like: a) find somebody that will code it for you or code it youself, b) wait till it is implemented, c) do alpha testing, d) do beta testing
18:46:25 <Rubidium> i.e. nobody's working on it
18:47:51 <KurtKraut> Rubidium, oh, I see... I'm sad to hear that. It is for me such an important feature.
18:48:33 <Rubidium> there is PBS in trunk though, but not it's not what's described in that realistic pbs proposal
18:50:51 <Eddi|zuHause> <Progman> the icon is the same o_O <- you can't search for an icon :p
18:51:12 <rortom> im wondering if i should write some ncurses backend for the console
19:03:50 <Swallow> Rubidium: Is the 'testing stuff' of r14566 (busyness stats) planned to be included in trunk?
19:05:49 <Rubidium> not in that way cause it fails to show the real busy pieces
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19:12:02 <Rubidium> what's the use in making the dedicated server depend on X?
19:14:58 <rortom> Rubidium, its a console "GUI"
19:15:25 <rortom> and GUI means, separate logging sutff from the input line, at least thats my target
19:15:42 <rortom> with player overview on the right side
19:16:41 <Rubidium> "PDCurses is a public domain curses library for DOS, OS/2, Win32, X11 and SDL" <- please tell me how that should be read as not depending on X/SDL?
19:25:40 <rortom> native linux users should use curses
19:25:54 <rortom> and windows users pdcurses i think
19:26:10 <rortom> so i should write a ncurses backend i think?
19:27:59 <rortom> would you agree on a linux only dedicated server console? :\
19:43:26 <glx> if a feature exists, it should be available for all platforms
19:44:10 <Tefad> Rubidium: how about serial terminals.
19:54:41 <Swallow> Setting the data property of a WWT_PUSHTXTBTN widget to STR_NULL displays "(undefined string)", but for a dropdown button it just shows nothing. Is this intentional?
19:56:26 <Swallow> looking at widget.cpp... dropdown code is this: if (str != STR_NULL) DrawStringTruncated(...
19:57:16 <Swallow> while the if clause isn't present for (push)textbuttons
20:08:49 <petern> with the operative on TEXT
20:13:20 <Swallow> Normally it shows text, but sometimes I needs to be empty
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20:13:32 <Swallow> *it needs to be empty
20:14:18 <petern> you could just use STR_EMPTY, heh
20:18:28 <Swallow> That's more or less what I already did, was just pointing out the difference in behaviour
20:33:07 <benjamingoodger> is anyone working on a more realistic economic simulation?
20:35:08 <frosch123> if you emphasise "realistic" and not "simulation" you can try "manual industries" :p
20:37:09 <benjamingoodger> I was thinking more about stocks and shares, having just finished a book on financial management...a colossal bank loan is not necessarily a good way of financing a railway company, and I could see a use for balance sheets and profit and loss accounts
20:39:09 <frosch123> oh, you mean the type of economy which needs the railroad-part only to appear legitimate
20:43:26 * Nite_Owl cuts the sarcasm with his trusty pocket knife
20:44:35 <frosch123> well, I was referring to that kind of companies, which are knowns for e.g. producing automobiles, but actually have a higher PBT than business-volume
20:45:24 <benjamingoodger> I'll presume you mean turnover
20:45:38 <benjamingoodger> and yes, that sort of thing happens all the time
20:46:09 <benjamingoodger> but I mean, if I buy a competitor's company, I can only buy at the balance-sheet total value, and it shows up as a loss on the year-end report (which is completely improper)
20:50:06 <Swallow> It's not improper, although I agree it's unwieldy
20:50:42 <benjamingoodger> it is improper, it violates the very first words of any accounting course (assets - liabilities = capital)
20:50:52 <Swallow> The (O)TTD financial report deals with changes of the bank balance, not with profits and losses
20:51:15 <benjamingoodger> this being the trouble
20:53:53 <Swallow> I wholeheartedly agree that an overview of profits and losses would be very practical
20:55:14 <benjamingoodger> well, I can't code anything, but I can provide a detailed specification for an overhaul of OTTD's corporate finance
20:58:46 <Eddi|zuHause> well, make it complete and detailed enough that someone with coding experience can write it 1:1
20:59:42 <Swallow> IIRC The devs' opinion is that this is a transportation game, not an economic simulation
21:00:08 <benjamingoodger> well, obviously
21:00:19 <benjamingoodger> there's no need to go all "railroad tycoon 2"
21:01:11 <benjamingoodger> I shall begin work on such a spec
21:01:20 <Swallow> I'd recommend keeping it really simple, simple enough for let's say a 12-year-old without any financial knowledge to understand
21:01:40 <benjamingoodger> yep, my spec will not prevent that
21:34:32 <Edtein> is there any action that uses alt+click?
21:35:12 <frosch123> no, alt is generally not used
21:53:16 <Edtein> is there a good reason for making you player #1 when you load a multiplayer game in single player?
22:03:45 <davis-> well if you start a single player game you are player #1 for default
22:05:10 <Eddi|zuHause> Edtein: how would you save which player you were, considering that the exact same savegame will get transfered from server to client when he joins?
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23:06:34 <Wolf01> (1 hour late) Eddi|zuHause, it should be possible to show a popup which asks the player for the company to join ;)
23:07:30 <davis-> just use the single player cheats then
23:07:40 <davis-> to join a special company
23:07:46 <Wolf01> or start a local multiplayer game
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