IRC logs for #openttd on OFTC at 2008-10-29
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02:53:40 <bleepy> marvellous, verdict carried
02:54:55 <Aali> finally figured out why my noai build is segfaulting
02:55:40 <bleepy> yeah you lost me, I play the game, that's as far as I get
02:55:54 <Aali> its an old memory corruption bug, one of my patches is doing it, and i dont know which one
02:56:39 <thingwath> it isn't hard to tell why something is segfaulting... simply it tries to use memory it doesn't have :o)
02:57:06 <Aali> only happens with RVs so i kinda forgot about it since i hardly ever use those
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02:58:02 <Aali> thingwath: that doesn't help debugging, though :P
02:58:34 <Aali> you kind-of need to know that its the rs variable in ClearSlot that ends up containing garbage
02:59:32 <thingwath> valgrind will tell, maybe. :o)
03:01:58 <Aali> hmm, i can't seem to be able to reproduce it in a debug build
03:02:06 <Aali> thats my biggest problem right now
03:04:28 <Aali> thank you, i'm going to need it
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08:49:12 <Celestar> $BOSS just forgot my name :/
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09:01:17 <TrueBrain> petern: I am happy to see I am not the only one who gets annoyed by it :)
09:12:37 <Celestar> TrueBrain: He just called up. Me: "Good morning". Him: "Good morning, er... er... er... er... er.... Is $OTHER_COLLEUAGE here?"
09:14:14 * Celestar awards his boss another suck-point
09:17:39 <dih> Celestar: do they work the same way as the 'treuepunkte' in flenzburg?
09:25:10 <Rubidium> Celestar: if I look at that conversation you failed to resolve $BOSS too, so why should $BOSS resolve $GUY_THAT_SAID_GOOD_MORNING?
09:27:21 <Celestar> Rubidium: I am able to resolve $BOOS :)
09:31:04 <Celestar> dih: how many Flensburg-points ya got?
09:35:37 <dih> 2 weeks - who gets the most :-D
09:36:17 <Celestar> the one who loses has to pay all the tickets?
09:46:57 <Celestar> it is pretty difficult to get points
09:47:20 <dih> existance of a driverslisence is required for the beginning, of one loeses it in the time of those 2 weeks one can still continue
09:47:29 <dih> Celestar: it is pretty easy!
09:48:04 <dih> as soon as you are 26 KM/h over the sweed limit on outer-town roads
09:48:51 <Celestar> but you need to find some trooper who cares about that too :P
09:53:14 <Rubidium> dih: next time use the right SI units ;)
09:54:44 <Rubidium> cause kelvin*mol/liter/hour doesn't make much sense ;)
09:56:01 <TrueBrain> oeh, my new screens arrived :)
10:04:41 <Celestar> TrueBrain: 22" Widescreens?
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10:09:16 <Celestar> dih: I don't hate them, as long as the vertical resolution is sufficient (i.e. > 1000)
10:09:53 <Celestar> I just don't like the 1280x800 crap or so
10:11:16 <dih> simply just dont like them...
10:11:18 <TrueBrain> k .. need to boot into Windows, as KDE 3 screen detection SUCKS ASS
10:11:23 <dih> might be nice to watch dvd's etc.
10:11:45 <Celestar> dih: it's ok for displaying two pages of paper side-by-side :D
10:11:46 <dih> but 4:3 ratio is what i personally prefer
10:12:02 <Celestar> my workstation has 2x 5:4
10:12:17 <TrueBrain> 2x 16:10 here now :p
10:13:36 <TrueBrain> damn, it is big .. oh well, brb, Windows boot required :p
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10:14:02 <Celestar> TrueBrain: screen detection works great on my suse installation ..
10:14:10 <petern> i want variable resolution too much to have lcds :(
10:14:10 <Celestar> must be a gentoo crappage
10:14:30 <Celestar> petern: just get some LCD with a proper interpolation
10:14:38 <petern> isn't screen detection a feature of x rather than kde?
10:14:50 <petern> also lcd colour is not as good
10:15:17 <Celestar> petern: those times are long gone (if you get a proper display)
10:15:28 * petern ponders a 19" 1280x1024 lcd
10:15:39 <petern> yeah, where proper mean expensive
10:16:15 <Celestar> well depends on what you call "expensive"
10:16:37 <petern> i have a 21" crt to get rid of
10:17:29 <petern> 1600x900... well, i suppose that is actually 16:9, but it's not that common
10:21:07 <petern> that was the wrong window too :D
10:21:07 <Eddi|zuHause> i like 16:10 very much since i got it
10:22:50 <Celestar> petern: how much would you shell out for a new display?
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10:34:00 <TrueBrain> Celestar: screen detection fails here completely :p I have to manually ... make clear to him what I want ;)
10:34:13 <TrueBrain> 3360x1280 ... how nice :p Damn, this is huge ...
10:34:55 <TrueBrain> now I need to get it off cloning, and make it true dualhead ...
10:35:34 <dih> that is what i dont like about widescreen ... one of the points
10:35:43 <dih> these os-so-odd vertical res
10:36:27 <TrueBrain> Gamma of -50, and screens are readable even in white ..
10:36:41 <TrueBrain> now dual head in KDE3 + X11 ... always a pain
10:36:55 <TrueBrain> xrandr: screen cannot be larger than 1680x1680 (desired size 3360x1050)
10:37:25 <Rubidium> strange... my screen's bigger than that
10:37:32 <dih> no need to slap all of them just because your's is mucking up
10:38:14 <petern> Celestar, depends on the size ;p
10:39:21 <petern> hmm, 24" viewsonic, £149
10:39:53 <Eddi|zuHause> i paid more for my screen than for my system
10:40:08 <Eddi|zuHause> around 300€ each
10:40:22 <Eddi|zuHause> plus some hard drives later on
10:40:28 <TrueBrain> my screens are now also more expensive then my system ;)
10:40:55 <ln> does someone know a small tool that would show line count per function in a C++ file?
10:43:03 <petern> except it's 400 elsewhere
10:43:58 <Eddi|zuHause> ln: it's a simple push down automaton to calculate the depth of the braces
10:44:09 <petern> although the better half would kill me
10:44:36 <Eddi|zuHause> to inherit such expensive gear? any time :p
10:45:00 <petern> i need to buy a new oven
10:45:07 <petern> then i can buy anything i wan
10:45:20 <Celestar> petern: then the 500 bucks for the LCD are measurement precision :P
10:45:21 <petern> however, i've yet to find an oven that'll fit in the space :(
10:49:21 <TrueBrain> xrandr is very good in multiple display support nowedays :)
10:50:15 <Celestar> xfs_fsr is really really helpful :o
10:51:41 <Celestar> file system reorganizer
10:51:46 <Celestar> "defragger" for the winpeops
10:53:15 <Eddi|zuHause> these "help" forums are always cool... "help, my hard disk is showing read errors" - "just defrag it!"
10:54:16 <TrueBrain> Celestar: isn't xfs doing that on the fly?
10:55:22 <Celestar> TrueBrain: it does so quite fine, unless you disk usage is very high.
10:55:28 <Celestar> TrueBrain: which happens here regularly
10:55:44 <Celestar> Filesystem Size Used Avail Use% Mounted on
10:55:45 <Celestar> /dev/evms/lvm2/td/home 8.9T 8.6T 368G 96% /nfs/home
10:56:15 <TrueBrain> do we want to know how much porn you downloaded :p
10:56:15 <Eddi|zuHause> my drives are always full...
10:56:22 <Eddi|zuHause> no matter what i do...
10:57:10 <ln> 12:43 < Eddi|zuHause> ln: it's a simple push down automaton to calculate the depth of the braces <--- that's why i assume someone else has done it already, because it's simple.
10:57:43 <TrueBrain> now all what I need, is some program that focuses on the application I am looking at :p
10:58:00 <TrueBrain> I now tend to miss which window I have active ... :p
10:58:39 <Eddi|zuHause> there are eye focus detection cameras
10:58:55 <Eddi|zuHause> just hook those into the mouse driver ;)
10:59:10 <Celestar> what's that to do with mice?
10:59:37 <Gekz> and turn on the ADHD module
10:59:48 <Gekz> it focuses on a single window
11:00:26 <TrueBrain> will consider that :p
11:00:27 <Gekz> Celestar: control the mouse with your eyes :P
11:00:34 <Gekz> Celestar: it would get annoying though
11:00:41 <Gekz> with this cursor moving where you're trying to read
11:00:50 <Gekz> and moving your eyes rapidly to move this flicker of terd out of the way
11:01:19 * Celestar prefers touchscreens
11:01:44 <TrueBrain> that would had been a good idea :p
11:02:52 <Gekz> perfect present, not perfect past :P
11:03:15 <TrueBrain> and what did I tell you about that?
11:03:24 <Gekz> YOUR MODAL VERB WAS INCOMPATIBLE
11:03:38 <TrueBrain> @kban Gekz 100 I can ban you
11:03:38 *** DorpsGek sets mode: +b *!~brendan@123-243-206-102.static.tpgi.com.au
11:03:39 *** Gekz was kicked by DorpsGek (I can ban you)
11:05:08 <TrueBrain> people should learn not to correct ever single english mistake we make .. it really is annoying :(
11:05:18 *** DorpsGek sets mode: -b *!~brendan@123-243-206-102.static.tpgi.com.au
11:05:37 <TrueBrain> @kban dih 100 an other one bites the dust
11:05:37 *** DorpsGek sets mode: +b *!~dih@vs241204.vserver.de
11:05:39 *** dih was kicked by DorpsGek (an other one bites the dust)
11:05:56 <TrueBrain> @kban Gekz 3600 ...
11:05:56 *** DorpsGek sets mode: +b *!~brendan@123-243-206-102.static.tpgi.com.au
11:05:58 *** Gekz was kicked by DorpsGek (...)
11:06:07 <TrueBrain> that was REALLY stupid ..
11:06:15 <Eddi|zuHause> i wondered when you were going to flip :p
11:06:34 <TrueBrain> Eddi|zuHause: you know me, doesn't take much/long ;)
11:07:17 *** DorpsGek sets mode: -b *!~dih@vs241204.vserver.de
11:07:24 <Eddi|zuHause> hm.. $someone is taking my whole bandwidth again
11:08:48 <Eddi|zuHause> Error: $someone is private
11:09:08 <dih> 12:08 <Gekz> tell him that Gekz says if you don't make mistakes, they dont have to be corrected
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11:12:50 <Rubidium> dont think it's such a good day ;)
11:13:23 <PandaTits> Like the smell of dog food at 4am
11:14:33 <PandaTits> Do you do that often?
11:15:05 <dih> @echo [base 16 10 7b] [base 16 10 f3] [base 16 10 ce] [base 16 10 66]
11:17:01 <dih> would have been nothing else than your ip anyway :-P
11:17:24 <PandaTits> What is this IP that you speak of?
11:18:33 <dih> the one that is in hex in your username
11:18:36 <Eddi|zuHause> Intergalactic Parity is a measurement to identify any physical object in the galaxy by a unique number
11:19:40 <TrueBrain> I wonder if I should the fake-Gekz too ..
11:21:14 <TrueBrain> at least he understand we are talking about him
11:21:32 <PandaTits> I don't have small tits.
11:21:34 <dih> TrueBrain: /whois Gekz and /whois PandaTits
11:21:36 <PandaTits> if that's what you're getting at.
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11:26:14 <TrueBrain> bah, ftp.nl.debian.org isn't responding :(
11:26:25 <PandaTits> It doesn't have panda tits.
11:26:49 <TrueBrain> @kban PandaTits 3600 you just annoy me
11:26:49 *** DorpsGek sets mode: +b *!7bf3ce66@webchat.mibbit.com
11:26:50 *** PandaTits was kicked by DorpsGek (you just annoy me)
11:27:05 <TrueBrain> I somehow don't feel like hearing about panda tits all day long :p
11:27:26 <TrueBrain> I wonder with which webchat he will join next ..
11:27:35 * dih buys TrueBrain a Play(Panda)Boy
11:27:58 <dih> why dont you just ban all webchats :-P
11:28:13 <TrueBrain> the smell of something stuck in my new monitor which is now burning ..
11:28:31 <TrueBrain> Rubidium: long 30 minutes :p
11:29:20 <Rubidium> but you forgot the student 15 minutes and the Twents 15 minutes for both the start time and the time it will take ;)
11:29:42 <TrueBrain> then it should be working again in 20 seconds ;)
11:29:51 <TrueBrain> I wonder which game I should launch on my new screens ... :)
11:30:11 * Rubidium knows a game that's widescreen certified that you might have ;)
11:30:52 <TrueBrain> haha, it does work over the complete desktop :)
11:31:00 <TrueBrain> now that is really insane :p
11:31:28 <TrueBrain> euh ... Rubidium: I would like to report a bug :p
11:31:36 <TrueBrain> when I make OpenTTD over my 2 screens
11:31:40 <TrueBrain> open it again, it gets the size of 1 screen
11:31:46 <TrueBrain> but .. OpenTTD still things it is over 2 screens :p
11:31:49 <TrueBrain> I need to resize to fix it :(
11:32:21 <TrueBrain> the other bug ... the opntitle screen is not as pretty at this size :p
11:33:04 <TrueBrain> okay, enough wining :) I am going to install Gentoo .. then some dancing classes .. be back much later :) Have fun you all!
11:33:29 <Rubidium> heh.. ftp.nl.debian.org is back up ;)
11:35:01 <TrueBrain> hmm .. now I come to think of it .. I don't need to reboot to install Gentoo .. I can do that from withn Debian :p hehe :)
11:36:05 <Rubidium> TrueBrain: and doing it over ssh is so much more fun :)
11:36:41 <TrueBrain> Rubidium: hehe, true :)
11:36:46 <TrueBrain> Rubidium: here the FTP still doesn't respond ..
11:37:06 <Rubidium> I just got about 80 MB from there
11:37:57 <TrueBrain> ah, ftp:// is, http:// is not
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11:56:13 <FloSoft> hmm where was the page with those copy&paste patches? or was it already added to trunk?
11:56:31 <TrueBrain> I doubt it will ever be in trunk, so check the forum?
12:04:17 <Celestar> I want auto-build :P
12:05:56 *** DorpsGek sets mode: -b *!~brendan@123-243-206-102.static.tpgi.com.au
12:06:19 <Celestar> about ... 10 billion?
12:06:48 <TrueBrain> wow, openttd-0.6.3 is finally unmasked in Gentoo
12:07:14 <TrueBrain> you can install openttd without warning or overriding security
12:07:33 <Celestar> and that wasn't the case before?
12:07:43 <TrueBrain> no, because of a few CVEs
12:07:50 <TrueBrain> they masked (read: blocked) all OpenTTD versions
12:08:01 <TrueBrain> it took ages for them to realiase 0.6.3 wasn't effected ..
12:08:05 <TrueBrain> but .. we are finally there ;)
12:08:09 <TrueBrain> CVE .. security reports?
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12:08:28 <Celestar> is that some gentoo specific stuff? :P
12:15:18 <Spoons> They? Isn't gentoo run by one guy, surely you mean "he". *runs*
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12:52:21 <SpComb> I've heard that before somewhere
12:53:54 *** Spoons is now known as FauxFaux
12:55:23 <petern> spoooooooooon guaaaaaaaaaaard
12:55:48 <FauxFaux> I accidentally the spoonguard.
12:57:02 <dih> you accidentally _what_ the spoonguard?
12:57:44 <petern> he accidentally the spoonguard
12:59:34 <ln> implicit verbs less typing.
13:00:41 <Wolf01> implicit sentences, no typing
13:01:33 <TrueBrain> pff, compiling gcc always takes for ever :(
13:01:52 <TrueBrain> downloading the CoD beta too ..
13:02:32 <FloSoft> TrueBrain: hmm on my quad compiling's really fast ;)
13:02:50 <TrueBrain> gcc drops back to a single core to compile, so somewhat I doubt that
13:03:40 <TrueBrain> (well, single thread, but okay, comes down to the same ;))
13:04:16 <FloSoft> TrueBrain: hmm did you use "make -j $insertmaximumthreadcounthere$"
13:04:25 <TrueBrain> FloSoft: it really doesn't matter in case of gcc
13:04:30 <TrueBrain> (like a few other software packages)
13:05:29 <TrueBrain> I believe either glib or glibc falls back to -j1 too ..
13:06:11 <TrueBrain> and with multilib active, gcc does two complete runs ... whoho
13:07:04 <Eddi|zuHause> well, then just compile different packages in parallel
13:07:25 <TrueBrain> lol @ Eddi|zuHause :)
13:08:45 <FloSoft> hmm: dpkg-shlibdeps: warning: debian/openttd/usr/games/openttd shouldn't be linked with libicui18n.so.38 (it uses none of its symbols).
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13:12:24 <glx> and it should warn about libicudata too
13:12:31 <FloSoft> glx: i know, but that binding is unnessecary
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13:13:19 <glx> tell that to libicu devs, icu-config --libs-only always give these 3 libs
13:14:02 <FauxFaux> The stand for my headphones is larger than that. ¬_¬
13:14:11 <petern> kde looks so horrible :p
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13:16:49 <Belugas> a desktop full of SNOW!!!
13:17:03 <petern> mine is full of winamp visualization
13:17:05 <TrueBrain> Belugas: told you I liked snow :)
13:17:16 *** petern sets mode: -b *!*Flex@89.246.*
13:17:17 <TrueBrain> petern: now that is a nice idea :)
13:18:08 <TrueBrain> glx: on the right screen is nxclient at work, to an other machine of mine
13:18:16 <TrueBrain> it contains all my chat applications, mail, and stuff like that
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13:18:39 <TrueBrain> but more the point here was: check my 2x 22" widescreen :p
13:19:37 <TrueBrain> the flatter the better
13:21:34 <Belugas> TrueBrain, i like diving (as you know). does not mean i have a diving related desktop ;)
13:21:50 <TrueBrain> Belugas: well .. that is just sad ;)
13:21:51 <Belugas> mmh... irrelevent... it has my son's picture... i guess i love him more than diving
13:24:52 <Eddi|zuHause> hm... i must like jessica alba then...
13:25:10 <TrueBrain> hmmm .. Jessica Alba ..
13:26:39 <glx> your desk is too clean to be real ;)
13:26:44 <dih> TrueBrain: here's an idea - move everything you dont need on your desk to somewhere else - then take another picture :-P
13:27:02 <FauxFaux> Yeah, it was polished for that, normally covered in half eaten snackies and bowls/plates. :p
13:27:57 <Eddi|zuHause> nothing ever stays half eaten here...
13:28:30 <TrueBrain> FauxFaux: nice screens ;)
13:28:36 <dih> no - but everything remains emtpy after it's been eaten
13:28:50 <FauxFaux> Clearly you're not buying cadbury's chocolate in the 1kg bars they offer.
13:28:55 <Eddi|zuHause> amazing how the same picture can look so falsely coloured in two adjacent screens...
13:29:14 <TrueBrain> reason I always buy two identical screens
13:29:22 <Eddi|zuHause> 1kg of chocolate? that'd take half an hour tops...
13:29:31 <dih> FauxFaux: are you by any chance lacking a chromosom?
13:29:49 <Belugas> A desktop not cluttered by papers, pen and books is the one of an administrator, i.e.: one that make the other works, i.e: one who does not work ^_^
13:29:55 <FauxFaux> dih: No, but I am lacking the ability or will to prepare food for myself. ¬_¬
13:30:14 <dih> why do you have these odd thingybob's on your screens?
13:30:55 <dih> those a things my neightbour likes playing with
13:31:24 <FauxFaux> She sounds nice, is she single?
13:31:31 <Eddi|zuHause> my sister also always wanted those things
13:32:32 <TrueBrain> well, girls, I wish you a good day
13:32:38 <TrueBrain> I am going to try CoD WAW MP Beta
13:33:47 <Eddi|zuHause> what's the most interesting about TrueBrain's "screenshot" is that he has a query window with Gekz open :p
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13:49:54 *** petern sets mode: -b bow*!*@*
13:56:02 <Eddi|zuHause> where are all these random bans coming from?
13:56:47 * Celestar wonders whether it is possible to mark an xfs so that it is fsck'ed on next boot
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13:58:00 <Celestar> that's the fsck order isn't it?
13:58:43 <ln> Celestar: touching /forcefsck forces checking everything at next boot, at least on certain distros.
13:59:29 <Celestar> ln: yes, but that's my last resort
14:01:18 <ln> touch /forcefsck and set last field in fstab to zero for all other partitions :/
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14:09:14 <Celestar> this disk is way too full :S
14:10:42 <petern> wasn't there a lot of hype several years ago that unix-type filesystems didn't need defragging?
14:11:30 <glx> fsck is not really for defrag IIRC
14:11:39 <thingwath> no, it really isn't
14:11:52 <Celestar> petern: they don't need it that badly. not by a long shot
14:12:00 <thingwath> but even unix filesystems need defragging, when they are used almost full, all the time
14:12:11 <Celestar> petern: unix people just say "full file systems perform badly"
14:12:20 <glx> windows needs a defrag right after install
14:12:35 <Celestar> petern: which is basically the same as "my file system is fragged like there's no tomorrow"
14:13:05 <ln> glx: now is that still true for ntfs?
14:13:33 <glx> ntfs doesn't solve the write where the head is
14:14:50 <Celestar> petern: unix file systems, as opposed to their windows counterparts, try hard not to fragment the data in the first place.
14:14:51 <glx> well it doesn't really need it, but a fresh install system is fragmented
14:15:07 <Celestar> NTFS and FAT just write the data all over the place
14:15:32 <thingwath> FAT is really stupid, but I think that NTFS should be better
14:16:11 <glx> ntfs supports compression and has better rights management but I think that's all
14:16:23 <thingwath> at least, microsoft has tools for online defrag :)
14:16:35 <thingwath> for many linux filesystem, there is no tool for defrag at all :)
14:17:17 <glx> because it's usually not needed :)
14:17:21 <Belugas> clusters are smaller too (way smaller), and the allocation table is less likely to be corrupted, regarding ntfs
14:17:48 <petern> worst filesystem i ever used for corruption was reiserfs
14:18:47 <Celestar> reiser fucks up rarely, but if it does, it does it well :P
14:19:19 <Celestar> often enough for me to not use it :P
14:19:58 <petern> reiserfs seems to be a journalling fs for performance rather than integrity
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14:20:29 <petern> i stick with ext3 mostly
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14:20:43 <petern> not the fastest but i've never experienced corruption
14:20:59 <thingwath> but I could fix it very easily
14:21:02 <petern> data loss on power failure, yes, but not fs corruption
14:21:11 <thingwath> it's really robust fs
14:21:30 <petern> i seem to remember an early 2.2 kernel had a fs trashing bug too :D
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14:32:07 <Celestar> I've had those on 2.5 kernels too :P
14:33:15 <Eddi|zuHause> what's the scheme behind kernel versioning anyway?
14:33:58 <thingwath> just increment the last number in 2.6.something forever :)
14:34:27 <Ammler> there was a 2.5 kernel?
14:34:42 <Ammler> but not really used...
14:34:44 <Eddi|zuHause> i mean you often hear about 2.4 and 2.6, but really rarely about 2.5
14:34:48 <thingwath> of course, as a development tree
14:35:13 <Eddi|zuHause> and you see nobody talking about going to 2.7
14:35:21 <thingwath> there will not be any 2.7
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14:39:05 <Ammler> one thing, I had better experience with FAT then ext3 is for USB Disks, if you unplug them without unmount
14:40:45 <Ammler> fsck works now since hours with my HD, next time I try with sync.
14:41:08 <petern> does FAT contain an 'unmount uncleanly' tag?
14:41:21 <thingwath> almost certainly not
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14:58:02 <Tefad> "works" and works are two different things
14:58:42 <ln> yes, one of them is a lame office suite from microsoft.
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15:04:07 <dih> ln: yes - the ms thing just does not... ironic actually!
15:07:36 <Aali> yay, i figured out what was segfaulting my ottd \o/
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16:30:59 <CIA-5> OpenTTD: skidd13 * r14546 /trunk/src/ (string.cpp string_func.h):
16:30:59 <CIA-5> OpenTTD: -Codechange: Unify string(cpy|cat) functions
16:30:59 <CIA-5> OpenTTD: -Doc: string(cpy|cat) functions
16:48:51 <yorick> are server names always encoded in utf-8 when sent over network?
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16:50:16 <yorick> because...212054696b6f732067c3a16dc3a9c3a9203333333333332121 <-- this is a hex representation of a server name
16:50:37 <yorick> I can't decode that with ASCII
16:52:25 <ben_goodger> yorick: most latin in UTF8 is ASCII equivalent
16:53:10 <ben_goodger> you should be able to get some sense out of it with raw ASCII unless it is composed for some reason primarily of non-alphanumerics
16:53:47 <yorick> ben_goodger: yes, but python errors on it when using th ascii codec
16:54:18 <ben_goodger> yorick: try another codec then?
16:54:28 <yorick> utf8 fails on revisions
16:55:35 <yorick> "8ae8a9a6e9818be8bba2e4b8ad" <- this one
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16:56:32 <ben_goodger> appears to read èÞ®ªÚüïÞ+óõ©¡
16:58:09 <yorick> what kind of revision is that?
17:00:10 <ben_goodger> well, if it's UTF-8 I think it's gibberish
17:00:25 <yorick> or it fails for another reason
17:00:51 <Belugas> isn't it a hg revision ?
17:01:06 <thingwath> I don't think *this* makes any sense as UTF-8
17:01:07 <yorick> Belugas: if I try to get the raw packet, it reads 0.6.2 somewhere
17:02:35 <petern> servers names are not encoded
17:03:01 <glx> petern: all strings are utf8 internally
17:04:36 <petern> server names are sent as-is
17:04:48 <petern> so if it's not utf8 in the config, then it's not utf8
17:04:55 <petern> and it is not *encoded* by ottd
17:05:16 <glx> it's whatever is filled in char*
17:05:40 <yorick> hmm, the packet just seems awfully broken
17:07:18 <FauxFaux> Yeah, there's a typo in the middle there somewhere.
17:09:55 <fjb> If I have a pointer to the nth element of an array, is there a way to find out the n?
17:10:07 <petern> pointer - first element
17:10:11 <FauxFaux> Yeah, the "-" operator, highly complex.
17:10:56 <fjb> first element means poiter to the start of the array?
17:12:32 <fjb> C sytax is complicated sometimes.
17:14:30 <Aali> C syntax is dead simple, if you know what you're doing
17:14:42 <FauxFaux> I'm pretty sure it counts as two modifications before a sequence point, thingwath.
17:16:25 <Sacro> i hate the way it is different in C and C#
17:16:31 <Sacro> C increments (as it should)
17:17:29 <thingwath> how you can tall what C should do with x in this?
17:17:47 <Sacro> and then post-increment it
17:18:28 <thingwath> why it should increment x after assinging the value?
17:18:48 <glx> order of operations is not defined
17:18:53 <FauxFaux> It might do the same as c#!
17:19:00 <thingwath> put value of x to =, and then increment
17:19:34 <FauxFaux> glx: I believe, in this case, it's not the order but actually the safety that's not defined. Subtle difference, but still relevant.
17:20:02 <glx> anyway I wouldn't trust somebody coding that way
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19:19:30 <fjb> What does gcc try to tell me? "error: two or more data types in declaration specifiers"
19:20:40 <petern> it means you have two or more data types in a declartion specifier
19:20:58 <Rubidium> probably a missing semi-colon or so
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19:22:04 <fjb> Hm, is "enum ramp_flags flags;" as part of a struct wrong?
19:23:04 <Aali> you can't use enums as types
19:23:38 <Aali> you still have to store the enumerated values in an integer
19:24:07 <fjb> My C book told me it should be possible. Maybe I got that wrong.
19:25:26 <petern> you must declare the enum separately
19:25:38 <petern> then you should just be able to use "ramp_flags flags;"
19:25:49 <Aali> ah yes, the problem is the enum keyword
19:25:56 <Aali> its only used to declare enums
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19:26:12 <Aali> nevermind what i said about enums not being types
19:26:16 <fjb> The enum is declared separately.
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19:27:52 <fjb> I still get that error wirthout "enum" in that line. But I get an additional error: "error: expected specifier-qualifier-list before 'ramp_flags'"
19:29:05 <Aali> and what does you enum declaration look like?
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19:31:45 <fjb> Ah, good hint, the semi-colon was missing there.
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19:32:30 <fjb> "enum ramp_flags flags;" is correct.
19:33:00 <Aali> i never use enums, so i forgot how the little buggers work :P
19:33:44 <fjb> I didn't find an example...
19:33:44 <Aali> enum ramp_flags is indeed the correct type name if you dont typedef it
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20:09:19 <yorick> Belugas: what security reasons?
20:24:25 <Belugas> does it really matter?
20:32:41 <yorick> then it's not a valid reason
20:33:47 <Belugas> if you insist: doing distributed automatic banning by a python client based on your now available identifier is not very interesting
20:34:54 <yorick> where does it say it will be used for that
20:34:56 <Belugas> one day, the game will be used only by control freak admins who will have even more fun then players
20:36:54 <yorick> how about afk monitoring + automatic pausing?
20:38:35 <Belugas> better use another method. exposing slot like tjis is way too touchy
20:39:14 <yorick> you mean it does not make sense to know which client actually did a command, only which company?
21:51:06 * Eddi|zuHause doesn't get what all the fuzz is about
21:52:29 <FauxFaux> Shit, it's the fuzz!
21:52:42 <Eddi|zuHause> about Belugas talking to himself :p
21:53:16 <yorick> Fitt, it's it's the shuz!
21:53:30 <Rubidium> Eddi|zuHause: oh, I was thinking about the iPhone fuzz
21:53:51 <Eddi|zuHause> Rubidium: yeah, i did, too. ;)
21:54:16 <Rubidium> "The iPhones aren't the only bad apples in the cell phone basket and there's not much you can do about the problem." <- A quote a like a lot
21:54:35 <Rubidium> if only the third a was an A ;)
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22:24:49 <Aali> wow, with IS and improved breakdowns, planes actually go for emergency landings at other companies airports
22:25:19 <Aali> and they still charge you the landing fee, those greedy bastards
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22:43:41 <Char> is there a reasonable way to replace engines if the one engine is a double engine and the other a single one?
22:44:18 <SmatZ> Char: as I said, no :) ... well personal things are going bad
22:49:32 <fjb> Hm, conditional orders and cargo dest don't get along too well...
22:49:33 <Char> guess it doesnt really help you, me beiung sorry
22:58:15 <Eddi|zuHause> well, conditional orders are impossible to predict, cargodest cannot ever handle them completely
22:58:56 <Char> the game gets kinda boring once you have connected most of the stuff
23:02:51 <Char> can only fund non-interesting stuff
23:03:09 <Char> i dont need a factory, i got one.
23:03:44 <fjb> I deleted the conditional orders, but now I have two independent routes. The cargo for the second station doesn't get loaded, only for the first station.
23:04:40 <Aali> why would conditional orders create problems with cargodest?
23:04:45 <Char> i could earn enough money to fill all water space with land
23:05:04 <Aali> unless you're using no load/no unload orders, of course
23:05:23 <Aali> Char: but thats very pointless :P
23:06:14 <rortom> Char: join a MP server with nightly, proper settings and good GRF ...
23:06:52 <Aali> i'm thinking about setting up my own MP server
23:07:37 <rortom> its very easy if you own a dedicated server
23:07:42 <Aali> running my own patchpack
23:07:48 <fjb> Or user NARS 2.0 and eGRVTS and start in 1831.
23:08:10 <Aali> oh i already run a dedicated ottd server for personal use
23:08:20 <Ammler> I would say, it is very hard to setup a own server
23:08:37 <rortom> ah, patchpacks are nice, but complicated to manage over time
23:08:42 <Ammler> define proper GRF combinations.
23:08:59 <rortom> the one from openttdcoop :p
23:09:14 <Aali> rortom: this one is, yes, i'm running just about every major patch there is
23:09:17 <rortom> since we have presets, its very easy to clone
23:09:20 <Ammler> coop doesn't use patchpack
23:09:42 <Char> anyone of you currently in a network game?
23:09:45 <rortom> Ammler, i mean GRF settings
23:09:47 <Aali> NoAI, cargodest, IS, improved breakdowns, improved timetable management and alot more
23:09:56 <Char> i could also try to get a performance rating of 1000
23:10:15 <Char> only thing i would need to do is build a shitload of stations
23:10:20 <Ammler> Aali: begin with 2-3 patches
23:11:03 <Ammler> Aali: do you know a working patchpack?
23:12:05 <Aali> Ammler: what do you mean by that?, have i actually ever seen a working patchpack? yes :P
23:12:39 <rortom> the russian patchpack is neic
23:12:54 <Ammler> that one is for sure, not useable
23:13:27 <Rubidium> even the mother of all patchpacks wasn't MP safe at all
23:13:38 <nicfer> I got an idea for multiplayer mode: what about a total vehicle limit, not only a per vehicle type one?
23:13:51 <Ammler> the best pack in that matter was Tiberiuss
23:14:14 <Ammler> and those for wwottdgd, of course :-)
23:14:19 * Rubidium doesn't remember what was in there
23:14:36 <Aali> well, thats part of the reason why i wanted to setup a MP server, so I can fix those issues
23:14:52 <Ammler> TibPP was mainly IS and YAPP
23:14:52 <nicfer> and not related, I have a system that would enable to build trolleybuses
23:15:15 <nicfer> Belug as would like it
23:15:55 <Aali> and I have yet to make it desync the MP game I'm playing with some friends
23:15:56 <Rubidium> Aali: fixing desyncs is tricky and pretty hard, so I hope you've got lots of experience with fixing other more reproducable bugs
23:16:03 <Aali> and we even have an AI in there
23:16:37 <Ammler> AI should be sync safe
23:17:14 <Aali> all the other patches *should* be sync safe too :P
23:18:33 <nicfer> my idea is to make the electric wires a flag of the road/tram rails instead of being attached to the tramtracks
23:18:36 <Rubidium> one thing about "sync safe": never believe the author, most of the time they are wrong
23:19:17 <Rubidium> nicfer: so you implemented that, right?
23:19:40 <nicfer> no, that's a idea only
23:20:28 <Rubidium> in that case I'll tell the American patent office that there has been prior art ;)
23:20:50 <rortom> what about adding a feedback routine once a client desyncs?
23:21:14 <rortom> like compare hash parts of the savegame, until the error position is found?
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23:22:41 <Rhydderch> ok new to irc here and to open ttd
23:23:02 <Aali> Rubidium: of course, and i haven't seen anyone brag about their patch being sync safe, i'm only going by my personal experience with these patches
23:23:13 <Rubidium> rortom: wouldn't quite help
23:23:25 <Rubidium> Aali: that's likely because you haven't been here long enough
23:23:34 <rortom> rubidium, why not, if you know the history of the tile?
23:23:58 <Aali> Rubidium: most likely, yes :P
23:24:03 <Rubidium> rortom: the cause of desyncs happen usually a long time before the actual desync
23:24:39 <Rubidium> and by long I mean up to at least 20-ish game years
23:25:06 <rortom> oh, thats indeed not good
23:25:11 <Aali> yeah, if a direct action leads to a desync it will be discovered and fixed, but a long chain of events can also lead to a desync if just one of those things go wrong
23:25:14 <rortom> why is it so long not detected then?
23:25:48 <Rubidium> because the gamestate has been slightly different and an action many years later triggers the desync
23:26:12 <rortom> mh, thats indeed not good
23:26:16 <Rubidium> e.g. the "do autorenew" setting of a company is not properly synced across all clients
23:26:22 <rortom> is there any approach from your side to solve that?
23:26:48 <Rubidium> the approach of stopping desyncs all together is... unfeasible
23:27:29 <Rubidium> making and sending a delta of the complete game state every tick is somewhat more bandwidth expensive
23:28:13 <rortom> maybe you can record games and playback in some kind of desync finder?
23:28:20 <Rubidium> as it'd mean sending a savegame every real time second to all clients
23:28:27 <rortom> i thought more about a 3rd party tool to find bugs
23:28:45 <SmatZ> Rubidium: we discussed it yesterday, savegames may differ for clients, but the effective game state is the same
23:28:50 <Rubidium> rortom: the playback can already be made if one uses the appropriate compile flags
23:28:50 <SmatZ> eg. not in a desync-state
23:29:12 <Rubidium> s/compile/configure/
23:29:27 <rortom> but could it be used to trace such errors?
23:29:45 <Rubidium> but that only helps in reliably reproducing it
23:29:58 <SmatZ> furthermore, bugs in say YAPF cache are untraceable this way
23:30:04 <Rubidium> after that it's usually placing printfs at strategic places
23:30:24 <rortom> that sounds pretty non-automatic :\
23:30:33 <Rubidium> anyhow... most of the desyncs lately are due to newgrfs doing strange things
23:30:56 <rortom> is there some logic checker for newgrfs?
23:31:20 <rortom> or something to limit their actions in they way that this happens?
23:31:59 <Rubidium> if we find a way a newgrf can cause a desync we either fix it or we mark the newgrf as unuseable in MP
23:32:44 <Rubidium> e.g. canset (IIRC) changes it's vehicle length when it turns around
23:33:08 <Rubidium> but when you reload the same savegame it initializes the vehicle length to the length it was before the turn
23:33:17 <Ammler> was that the reason, it got removed?
23:33:47 <Rubidium> Ammler: no, that was acting upon his own threats
23:34:25 <Rubidium> if you (O)TTD(P) do not implement feature XY then I'll remove the set
23:34:33 <Char> my company rating is at 1000
23:34:41 <Char> thats reason enough to start a new game
23:35:01 <dih> Rubidium, what a silly thing to try
23:35:20 <dih> thinking ones grf was enough leverage
23:35:47 <dih> thinking there even was leverage at all :-P
23:36:05 <Ammler> well, that is not worth to discuss anyway...
23:36:18 <rortom> haha, thats lame @ threats
23:36:30 <rortom> peopel try that everytime for RoR as well ;)
23:38:18 <Rhydderch> is this channel specificly for the developers of OpenTTD? I thought perhaps it was for those who were just players too....
23:38:45 <Rhydderch> however the discussion is way over my head
23:39:08 <fjb> We have 1912 and I finally got my first non steam train.
23:39:35 <Rubidium> Rhydderch: OpenTTD doesn't have 92 developers ;)
23:39:46 <Vikthor> Rhydderch: It depends, most of the time it's not about OpenTTD at all :p
23:40:00 <rortom> why dont fork the channel, blender did it well
23:40:09 <rortom> #openttd.dev or something
23:40:59 <Rubidium> there's not that much chatter
23:42:29 <rortom> if you would want to write a management protocol
23:42:34 *** XeryusTC is now known as Xeryus|bnc
23:42:46 <rortom> what language would you choose for the interface?
23:43:18 <Rubidium> something buzzword free
23:45:14 <rortom> no i mean its usable by any language at all
23:45:27 <rortom> you could php, java, c/c++, ... to connect
23:46:46 *** welshdragon is now known as walshdragon
23:48:44 <Rubidium> buzzword free doesn't mean unuseable
23:48:59 * Rubidium wonders how many of the famous protocols use XML-RPC
23:50:05 <rortom> coming up with something on your own is not the problem
23:50:19 <rortom> just if you want everyone to use it
23:50:54 * Rubidium doesn't like the requirement of both a xml library and a http library
23:51:06 * SmatZ wonders about overhead (both data size and computional time) caused by XML-RPC
23:52:31 <rortom> i also dont like overhead
23:52:41 <rortom> so thats the reason i asked :)
23:52:55 <rortom> must sleep, work in 5 hours, gn8
continue to next day ⏵
