IRC logs for #openttd on OFTC at 2008-10-26
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11:26:14 <dih> oh yeah... forgot about that
11:26:55 <TrueBrain> how can you forget that? :)
11:27:13 <TrueBrain> So you walked into church an hour early? :)
11:29:04 * TrueBrain is gone for a few hours ... :)
11:34:05 <scarabeus> i wanted to speak with ya
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11:44:08 <dih> TrueBrain, no - there was no church here this morning :-P
11:44:18 <dih> i am going this evening to the brazilian service
11:46:02 <Eddi|zuHause> how can you forget that? you have NTP and whatnot...
11:51:12 <dih> nothing to even notice anymore unless you happen to be awake and glaring at your clock at 2.59 am
11:51:59 <Rubidium> nothing interesting happened this night when I was watching the clock as 2.59 AM CET ;)
11:53:34 <dih> i did that once - that was sooo funny - we had a party and i looked at the clock and it said 2.50 am so i get people together to watch it swtich to 2.00 am again.....
11:53:42 <dih> well - it was CET already :-D
11:54:00 <dih> (i did not wake anybody up - it was at a party :-P)
12:00:22 <Eddi|zuHause> you are a hero ;)
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12:54:25 <TrueBrain> scarabeus: here now :)
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13:29:38 <CIA-5> OpenTTD: * r14537 /: [NoAI] -Fix: bug while loading a game under some compilers.. this cast seems to help (Yexo)
13:30:57 <Eddi|zuHause2> did CIA-5 just forget the username and files?
13:31:37 <Eddi|zuHause2> @openttd commit 14537
13:31:37 <DorpsGek> Eddi|zuHause2: Commit by truebrain :: r14537 branches/noai/src/ai/ai.cpp (2008-10-26 13:26:23 UTC)
13:31:38 <DorpsGek> Eddi|zuHause2: [NoAI] -Fix: bug while loading a game under some compilers.. this cast seems to help (Yexo)
13:32:09 <FauxFaux> Changed lines: 0. Heh.
13:35:29 <Yexo> nice huh? fixing something without changing a single line? :p
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13:45:18 <Swallow> In this code: If (statement1 || statement2) {..} ...
13:45:50 <Swallow> Is statement2 executed if statement1 evaluates to true?
13:47:45 <Eddi|zuHause2> i think the pascal standard said it is, but most compilers had an option to change that
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13:49:25 <Yexo> IIRC it is executed in pascal indeed
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13:52:53 <TrueBrain> who knows a good MSN client for linux?
13:55:05 <TrueBrain> amsn fails on utf-8 here, and it doesn't have 'status messages'
13:55:08 <TrueBrain> which is rather annoying ;)
13:56:06 <TrueBrain> kmess fails to do auto-away ..
13:56:16 <TrueBrain> pidgin gives me a writting error :(
13:56:23 <Char> thats a load of people hanging around here
13:56:39 <Char> i wasnt aware there is still so many people actually playing this game....
13:57:08 <frosch123> who said anyone is playing in here?
13:57:17 <Eddi|zuHause2> it's worse, they keep getting more and more...
13:57:41 <Char> well, i figured if you hang around here, than you are at least interested....
13:57:54 <Char> i am trying to re-start after i played occasionally in the last years
13:58:13 <Char> started playin back when there was no ttd, but only tt ;)
13:59:27 <Char> and now i wonder whats a good place to start
14:00:57 <Eddi|zuHause2> traditionally, a town or industry ;)
14:02:05 <yorick> TrueBrain: and you give up after a "writting" error?
14:03:01 <Char> still i got some questions
14:03:28 <Char> do you play with breakdowns active? seems to be very prone to causing traffic jams
14:03:51 <Eddi|zuHause2> i never play with breakdowns
14:03:59 <Alberth> some do, others don't
14:04:56 <Alberth> some times :) I find it fun to make the network robust against break downs
14:05:02 <dih> Char, there are settings and everybody plays with them set the same way! duh
14:05:14 <Char> and - if playing with breakdowns, is there any reasonable way to stop broken down trains from blocking all following trains?
14:05:16 <dih> everybody has a certain flavor
14:05:29 <Char> dih: well thanks, i was aware of that
14:05:37 <dih> you have depot lines so trains can service
14:05:43 <Alberth> Char: add another track next to it so trains can switch
14:05:55 <dih> you run double main lines and add options for overtaking
14:06:06 <TrueBrain> yorick: pidgin has same problem: I can't change both my names that simple
14:06:14 <dih> and hope that no 2 trains breack down next to eachother
14:06:20 <Char> i am not yet so advanced as to have one main line on the whole map ;)
14:06:39 <Char> cause in TT original, it was kinda impossible to build a mainline
14:06:44 <dih> just double your lines and add overtaking
14:06:58 <Alberth> Char: neither am I, and I may never reach that point. On the other hand, it is not a requirement for playing OpenTTD ;)
14:07:04 <Char> with some kind of fancy pre-signal setup and path-based signalling?
14:07:07 <dih> Char, why was it impossible?
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14:07:25 <Char> cause there were no pre-signals and the pathfinding routine was kindof crappy
14:07:29 <dih> but you dont have to have presignals
14:07:50 <Char> trains got lost if you had a too complex railway system
14:07:59 <Alberth> Char: I played with basic signals for years
14:08:10 <Char> in the first versions, you could not even have one-way signals iirc
14:08:32 <Alberth> Char: I started with TTDX
14:08:53 <Char> yeah, well, i started with TT non-deluxe i guess
14:09:17 <dih> www.openttdcoop.org <- has some nice huge examples too
14:09:44 <Eddi|zuHause2> i played TT non-deluxe for years before i even learned about the existance of one-way signals in a newer version
14:10:07 <Char> yeah, and i remember getting the pre-signals and i was like WOHOOO
14:10:19 <Char> cause it enabled so much more fancy track layouts
14:10:40 <Alberth> Char: savegames, strategies for building large networks, junction layouts, track priority, and many other advanced stuff
14:11:29 <Char> and.... i mean, in the beginning you have a problem with very low funds. so you start and build one or two profitable lines and then start to build the really big linse?
14:11:52 <Eddi|zuHause2> that's the general twist of the game, yes ;)
14:12:20 <Alberth> I actually don't play that much, I am more digging and modifying source code. Also, I never seem to get past 1970 or so :)
14:13:18 <Eddi|zuHause2> Alberth: that's the fault of the daylength patch usually ;)
14:14:06 <Alberth> And I don't even use that!!
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14:14:32 <Alberth> 1 day can then be longer than ~7 seconds
14:15:28 <Char> openttd has become so complicated that it is kindof hard to get a grasp now
14:15:30 <Alberth> yeah, you need to practice a lot! :)
14:16:17 <Char> and now i wonder how and where to start
14:16:23 <Char> using which patches and options and so on
14:17:08 <dih> you can change them in-game too
14:17:24 <dih> so if you dont like a certain behaviour - you can fiddle with the advanced settings until you like it
14:17:33 <Alberth> basic strategy: start with defaults, and when getting anoyed at something find out how to change it to your liking
14:18:10 <dih> + wiki.openttd.org has a great user guid
14:18:11 <planetmaker> e.g. apply the usual approach :)
14:18:16 <dih> read that when you need something
14:22:38 <Char> but some of the new add-on stuff looks so nice
14:22:45 <Char> that i would like to try it immediately :P
14:26:44 <Eddi|zuHause2> i don't like ECS
14:27:37 <planetmaker> Char: go right ahead, they don't hurt. Though starting with any new industry makes things indeed more complicated; I'd advise to use them only in the 2nd.
14:28:33 <planetmaker> any other grfs don't change too much the way the game works, so any other is fine for the first game.
14:29:01 <planetmaker> Mind to stick to "reasonable" combinations :) - not two of the same kind.
14:31:26 <dih> just not - grf's are sensitive to loading order and other grf's
14:31:34 <dih> i.e. some grf's dont go with others
14:31:43 <dih> and some grf's must be loaded before / after others
14:44:03 <Alberth> Assuming it is another form of industries, I think it is Pikka's Basic Industries
14:44:23 <Alberth> Never played with it though
14:44:44 <welshdragon> it's a good compliment to Industrial Statoons renewal
14:48:38 <rortom> whats the status of paxdest?
14:49:02 <Alberth> we have cargodest nowadays
14:50:13 <rortom> hows the branch called?
14:50:37 <Alberth> cargodest, obviously, see the dev forum
14:51:27 <Char> are most of you guys here more the developers than the actual players?
14:52:37 <Alberth> we don't have yet 107 developers :)
14:53:31 <frosch123> DJNekkid: not implemented, and quite pointless anyway
14:56:27 <DJNekkid> frosch123: oh ... well, you see, im trying make a airplaneset where the planes have a "range" ... created with a CB36 that slow down the plane when it's not within the range of itself
14:58:09 <frosch123> well, the variable has the same problem as all variables that refer to tiles. They are 16 bit (0xYYXX) in TTD, while they are 32 bit in OTTD (format depending on map size)
14:58:38 <frosch123> btw. you encounter the same problem when you want to test the position of the aircraft
14:58:52 <Sacro> DJNekkid: how can a plane not be in range of itself?
14:59:15 <scarabeus> TrueBrain: well i have broken quassel i see only white text
14:59:19 <scarabeus> which is really cool
14:59:23 <scarabeus> so are you still here?
15:00:00 <DJNekkid> frosch123: i dont have any problem yet, as i've not tried to code anything yet, i'm just looking into the posibilities right now
15:00:31 <DJNekkid> Sacro: well, in range of the target airport
15:09:07 <scarabeus> TrueBrain: ok i am going to shop so i will be here in about 1 hour
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15:58:44 <CIA-5> OpenTTD: glx * r14538 /branches/noai/src/company_cmd.cpp: [NoAI] -Fix (r10350): loading of non-noai savegames with version >=69 was broken
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16:22:22 <TrueBrain> scarabeus: the general rule applies: leave what you want to leave, I will be here sooner or later ;) Else PM me :) As I am now gone again for a few :)
16:23:02 <scarabeus> well i just wanted to ask if you want to update somehow ebuild in the tree
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16:26:36 <TrueBrain> as you forgot a few things ;)
16:26:40 <TrueBrain> but I need to update a few things first :)
16:26:51 <TrueBrain> shall I email you an update when I have one?
16:27:08 <scarabeus> nickname@gentoo.org
16:27:21 <yorick> there shouldn't be spammerbots here
16:27:34 <scarabeus> thisone is generic blocker :]
16:27:56 <yorick> is he the spammerbots?
16:28:00 <TrueBrain> k, tnx scarabeus :)
16:30:26 <glx> logs available on http is a good help for spammers
16:30:37 <yorick> you have spammerbots at the logs
16:30:48 <TrueBrain> and google allowing eregs to browse the web... finishes the job
16:32:01 <glx> I even saw google bot looking in my IIS
16:32:10 <glx> (I didn't have robots.txt)
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17:08:50 <NukeBuster> why is the dynamite tool on the road vehicles toolbar different from the landscaping toolbar?
17:09:03 <NukeBuster> *from the one on the landscaping toolbar?
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17:12:54 <NukeBuster> I'm busy on the diagonal clearing patch
17:12:55 <Zuu> They look the same here on the sprites.
17:12:55 <yorick> what's different about it?
17:13:13 <NukeBuster> well i f*ked 1 of the 2 up
17:13:25 <NukeBuster> and not sure where to find the road tool part
17:13:42 <NukeBuster> because the one on the landscaping toolbar is working fine
17:17:16 <Zuu> By the way when I compile trunk r14536 in MSVS, the key to fast forward becomes the SHIFT-key, not the TAB-key as usual. I first though I had mixed something up in my widget focus patch, but even when compiling trunk SHIFT become the fast forward key. Can't find any notice about any such change in SVN trunk. And the last win32 nightly (r14531) from compile farm have TAB for fast forward, as usual.
17:18:01 <NukeBuster> a new config setting?
17:18:02 <Zuu> I will make a new trunk checkout to make sure I absolutely not have altered anything. (did made an SVN revert of my usual trunk, but clean checkout may differ)
17:18:11 <Rubidium> Zuu: make a release build
17:18:38 <Zuu> Rubidium: Is it a know problem?
17:18:59 <Zuu> A feature of the debug releases to use Shift?
17:19:15 <Rubidium> so you can better time your fast forwards
17:22:22 <glx> Zuu: when debugging you often use alt-tab
17:22:45 <Zuu> When writing text I sometimes use shift key :)
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17:26:39 <NukeBuster> Yorick, the road tool has it's own drag/mouseup/click handling. And thats what I messed up.
17:27:03 <NukeBuster> still strange that it influenced the behavior of the tool though
17:28:11 <Eddi|zuHause2> you might want to unify these tools
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19:36:55 <Char> if i use the openttdcoop newGRF package
19:37:00 <Char> and i am not playing on a server
19:37:08 <Char> do i have to switch it on somehow?
19:37:37 <frosch123> only when you create the server
19:38:06 <yorick> or start a singleplayer game
19:38:12 <frosch123> oh, you said you were not playing on a server :s
19:38:52 <frosch123> well, in main menu there is some "newgrf" button, were you can add newgrfs
19:39:04 <Char> i want to start a singleplayer game
19:39:11 <frosch123> but do not add to much you do not know
19:39:21 <Char> since i guess that i am not yet .... well ... suited to play on a server
19:39:53 <Char> i know none of the GRFS to be exact ;)
19:42:56 <yorick> openttdcoop for example
19:43:21 <Char> i would need to find such a game then :P
19:45:17 <Char> is it possible to join games
19:48:57 <Char> is there a game running?
19:49:28 <Char> cool. can you tell me how to join it?
19:50:55 <yorick> now what greats has he done?
19:54:56 <dih> yorick, he does not _have_ to do good
19:55:28 <yorick> still...hugging him for no reason...
19:56:20 <frosch123> would you prefer kicking for some reason?
19:56:41 <yorick> no, but hugging for some reason on the other hand...
19:56:56 <rortom> if anyone wants to join, were starting a new network game: openttdserver.de in some minutes
19:57:23 * yorick hugs rortom for spamming a server
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19:57:50 <Bjarni> I wanted to kick you :/
19:58:02 *** off is now known as welshdragon
19:58:26 <dih> Bjarni, there still is yorick
19:59:11 <yorick> Bjarni: there is also still a dih
19:59:44 <Bjarni> I remember the first time I saw some soldiers on horses. I wondered why they were called dragons :D
19:59:46 <yorick> he is much more kicksome
20:00:12 <Bjarni> took me quite a while to figure out that dragons and dragoons are spelled differently
20:02:29 <Bjarni> a dragon has one head while a dragoon has two (one human and one horse)
20:02:52 <Bjarni> then why isn't hydra spelled "hydraooooooooo"?
20:08:18 <Bjarni> dih: never ask anybody that question on the internet
20:08:38 <Bjarni> you will have a lot of reading to do
20:08:46 <Bjarni> and then you will have to be killed for knowing too much
20:09:01 <welshdragon> Bjarni, he already knows too much
20:09:04 <dih> welshdragon, so you consider 'being special' to be something 'wrong'?
20:09:29 <welshdragon> dih nothing is wrong with me
20:09:38 <welshdragon> i'm just me, me = special
20:09:40 <Bjarni> then why are you here?
20:10:04 <welshdragon> because i play openttd
20:10:05 <dih> i remember asking what was wrong with you - why did you then lie
20:10:48 <welshdragon> there are players and developers, as well as server hosts
20:11:20 <Bjarni> and people who think the bots are real people
20:11:47 <Bjarni> this channel is all part of a huge turing test
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20:13:12 <Bjarni> did I convince him that he is a bot?
20:13:57 <frosch123> "heute bzw. gestern ist ein neues nigthtly heraus gekommen." <- quote of the day
20:14:41 <Bjarni> who gave you that information?
20:14:58 <frosch123> ttdp nightly actually
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20:16:40 <frosch123> petern: "today resp. yesterday a new nightly was released"
20:17:55 <Bjarni> ok, now the world stopped
20:18:05 <Bjarni> or at least my link to the email world
20:18:49 <Bjarni> the server is responding, but it fails to allow me to read mail
20:19:02 <Bjarni> it does that once in a while... totally annoying
20:19:11 <Bjarni> at least the OTTD mail works
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20:29:35 <DJNekkid> could anyone help me on some nfo-code regarding more liveries/refitting?
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20:35:15 <glx> I think it needs an action2 chain
20:36:52 <frosch123> the description of callback 0x19 explains it
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21:03:19 <TrueBrain> oh, that should annoy yorick
21:04:14 <TrueBrain> Rubidium: how lovely, our CET / CEST stuff works :)
21:04:25 <TrueBrain> dih: I am sure he reads it back tomorrow ;)
21:04:36 <TrueBrain> Rubidium: the compile-farm today compiled at 1900 UTC :)
21:05:46 <dih> question, i hope you dont mind....
21:05:55 <dih> sorting at binaries.openttd.org
21:06:05 <TrueBrain> I wonder if I should make a FAQ about such question
21:06:08 <dih> could you sort the folders by creation date?
21:06:15 *** Sacro|Laptop is now known as Sacro
21:06:25 <dih> then the latest build is always at the top
21:06:26 <TrueBrain> as I answered this question around 10 times now ...
21:06:36 <TrueBrain> or I should keep a list of who I told it
21:06:41 <TrueBrain> so I can flame those who ask again
21:07:05 <dih> i just cannot remember the answer :-P
21:07:10 <TrueBrain> dih: but to answer again: not only is binaries.openttd.not not meant for manual browsing, it is also part of a mirror system
21:07:23 <TrueBrain> any 'sorting' on my end will be invalidated by any mirror you access
21:07:45 <TrueBrain> but, if we ever find the time, there will be a frontend, which avoids all this :)
21:07:51 <TrueBrain> for now, you will need to scroll :)
21:08:44 <dih> now i have the answer - slap me if i should ask again :-D
21:09:08 <TrueBrain> I will put you on my little list ;)
21:09:12 <TrueBrain> lets call it a grey list
21:09:15 <TrueBrain> if you ask again, I move you to my black list
21:10:15 <TrueBrain> I have to get up 0600 tomorrow, to start working at 0730 .... I feel tired already :(
21:10:17 <dih> i should follow your example
21:10:29 <TrueBrain> (as I most likely need to work to around 1900 or so ..)
21:11:16 * dih sais "night" again and adds TB to his 'sleep well all' grey list :-D
21:15:59 <Char> wasnt there a "build while paused" option somewhere?
21:16:11 <NukeBuster> wasn't that a cheat?
21:16:15 <Eddi|zuHause2> yes. in the cheat menu
21:44:26 <Eddi|zuHause2> why do i get this feeling that this burty guy has no clue what he is talking about?
21:44:52 <Bjarni> because he is some random guy on the internet?
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21:50:29 <Eddi|zuHause2> i should really not read the suggestions forum...
21:50:36 <Eddi|zuHause2> "towns simply don't generate enough passengers"
21:51:05 <glx> they generate way too much for me
21:51:48 <Eddi|zuHause2> i have the "reduce passengers" patch set to 6 (i.e. divide passengers by 2^6)
21:52:27 <ln> there's a suggestions forum? what could be more useless.
21:53:11 <glx> sometimes there's a good idea
21:53:16 <Eddi|zuHause2> yeah, a suggestions forum where people open threads and are like: "i don' have a suggestion, but could you please post some suggestions in this thread?"
21:54:03 <ln> all the good suggestions are presented on this channel, by me.
21:54:45 <ln> though i noticed how pointless it is years ago, so i'm not suggesting anything anymore.
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22:01:47 <ben_goodger> ln: you're nearly as cynical as me
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22:12:03 <Eddi|zuHause2> kernel: Write-error on swap-device (253:5:14328) <- that doesn't look very promising
22:15:43 <Char> i have a map and the last oil rig just closed
22:15:52 <Char> (in 1954, starting time was 1950)
22:19:01 <Eddi|zuHause2> damn, i just read the title "iPhone!" and thought the i was an ¡
22:19:57 <Char> whats the standard map size?
22:20:58 <Eddi|zuHause2> 256x256 was the original map size
22:22:05 <Char> i got a 256x256 map and it looks so freakin small
22:22:20 <Eddi|zuHause2> it seemed big back then, but now with longer trains and platforms, more zoom out levels and bigger screens, it feels rather tiny
22:23:22 <Eddi|zuHause2> but i have not yet managed to actually fill a 2048x2048 map
22:23:26 <Char> the game calls that stuff that "produces" oil oil rig
22:23:55 <Eddi|zuHause2> oil wells are the inland pumps, and oil rigs are the offshore platforms
22:24:02 <Char> still, the map is so small that i will have connected all industries in like 1960
22:24:55 <Char> and actually i wanted to try a mainline setup
22:25:06 <Char> but the problem is that the map is highly unsuited for a mainline
22:26:44 <Eddi|zuHause2> try a 256x1024 map ;)
22:31:29 <Char> that should work out better
22:32:19 <Char> moneymaker works already
22:32:57 <Eddi|zuHause2> i don't know why, but i always found hightly connected passenger networks more interesting than industry "main lines"
22:32:58 <Char> btw, single lane mainline (RL type) is pretty pointless, right?
22:33:19 <Char> i never cared about passengers, they were too easy to do
22:33:42 <Eddi|zuHause2> why? just make sure you have trains that run on the same speed
22:34:12 <Eddi|zuHause2> there's no need for overtaking and stuff then
22:35:05 <Eddi|zuHause2> i don't often need more than double track
22:35:37 <Eddi|zuHause2> but i once did implement a two way middle track for a heavily used line
22:36:09 <Eddi|zuHause2> only works properly with path signals, though
22:36:20 <Char> how can you make the trains use the outer lines more likely?
22:36:44 <Char> could try that so that overtaking for broken down trains works
22:36:44 <Eddi|zuHause2> trains have a penalty for going backwards through a path signal
22:37:02 <Eddi|zuHause2> or waypoint/station
22:37:02 <Char> would need to dig into path signals then....
22:37:24 <Eddi|zuHause2> actually, i'm not sure about waypoints
22:37:33 <Eddi|zuHause2> but definitely stations that are not their current order
22:37:58 <Eddi|zuHause2> just make sure the trains have non-stop orders
22:39:23 <Char> i switched them on as standard
22:41:35 <Char> so building non-used stations in the middle would make them try to avoid them?
22:59:04 <murray> all these amazing quit messages amaze me
23:00:58 * SpComb doesn't have a quit message
23:01:36 <SpComb> unless it's a server error message :<
23:02:35 <Eddi|zuHause2> i like "connection reset by peer gynt" :p
23:04:30 <SpComb> it's even .org, not .net
23:04:31 <Char> computer enemies are SOOOOO stupid
23:22:15 *** Yeggstry is now known as Yeggzzz
23:43:12 *** welshdragon has joined #openttd
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23:51:46 <Char> couldnt get my feeder stations to work properly
23:51:55 <Char> cause the feeders picked up the cargo back
23:51:58 <Char> which was kinda stupid ;)
23:52:17 <Eddi|zuHause2> you need transfer and leave empty orders
23:52:24 <Eddi|zuHause2> or cargo destinations
23:53:10 <Char> i have a long line running from one end of the map to the other
23:53:16 <Char> and i got breakdowns active
23:53:33 <Char> now i want my trains to be serviced every 110 days to keep breakdowns to a minimum
23:54:18 <Char> i have train depots every 80 tiles or so
23:54:40 <Char> but if the train has the order to go non-stop to the target destination, well, then it goes there and doesnt stop
23:54:55 <Char> even if i set the depots for "service if needed"
23:55:11 <Char> and i do not want the trains to enter every depot
23:55:20 <Char> do i need to remove the non-stop order?
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