IRC logs for #openttd on OFTC at 2008-09-29
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00:02:31 <ln> Gekz: bruce, ur ISP sucky-sucky
00:15:59 <welshdragon> can he be banned untik his isp is sorted
00:25:35 *** Gekz was kicked by SmatZ (fix your ISP)
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00:32:18 <ccfreak2k> Just ban him and leave a privmsg to tell someone when it's sorted.
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10:13:30 <petererer> Was only a website password.
10:25:29 <fjb> Doesn't sound secure anyway.
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11:43:12 <petererer> TrueBrain, is there a way to link to a specific game server on the website by ip address / port?
11:43:27 <petererer> Rather than knowing the magic table index...
11:43:59 <TrueBrain> might be worth adding
11:44:15 <TrueBrain> although once given an index, it will remain valid as long as your server is online at least once in the 3 months
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12:34:51 * fjb can't play without cargodest anymore...
12:45:40 <Tim> When can we expect CargoDest to hit Trunk? :)
12:46:13 <Celestar> Tim: when I've got around to brining it up to coding standards mostly
12:51:59 <fjb> Next step after that will be load ballancing? Or is that too cpu intensive.
12:52:55 <Celestar> fjb: I'm working on it, but it will not be put online before v1 is merged imho
12:53:11 <fjb> That is great news. Load ballancing is the only thing I'm missing right now.
12:53:25 <Celestar> load-balance yourself :P
12:55:13 <fjb> How? One bus making a direct connection can change the way the passengers want to take dramatically. And you can not always be aware of that beforehand. It is not obvious that the new route will be shorter sometimes.
12:56:18 <fjb> Btw: I think it is the right step to bring a stable cargodest into trunk before starting to add features.
12:57:30 <petererer> There are still some cache issues in cargodest :(
12:59:31 <Celestar> petererer: there are?
13:01:28 <petererer> Refitting may have been involved.
13:02:05 <petererer> I had a route, added a wagon, refitted it, but the small map route map did not show the route
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13:02:28 <petererer> I tweak the order list, so then it did appear in the route map
13:02:56 <petererer> But rn dl (or whatever the secret incantation is) did not show anything
13:03:26 <petererer> Then I disconnected and rejoined, and immediately desynced, until I called rn rr, upon which everything worked fine.
13:05:11 <Celestar> petererer: ok I shall debug this over this week. do you have some sample savegame?
13:12:30 <petererer> 'Fraid not, but I'll try to reproduce my steps tonight.
13:13:36 <petererer> Clearly Ammler's ottdcoop lot do not do thorough testing on their cargodest server ;)
13:14:45 <petererer> Did you ever make a command to dump all the routing network state, including caches?
13:14:53 <petererer> To compare before and after rn rr
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13:21:48 <Celestar> petererer: I think I have a diff .......... somewhere
13:21:55 <Celestar> petererer: I'll go looking for it tomorrow
13:29:11 <Belugas> [08:52] <fjb> That is great news. Load ballancing is the only thing I'm missing right now. <--- if only everyone could agree on that... Somehow, i doubt that TOTALLY
13:29:24 <Belugas> people always wnat THE other thing that is not in there yet
13:29:38 <Belugas> whatever THE other thing might be...
13:30:35 <fjb> Hm, infrastructure sharing and Peter's work on different rail and road tile sets come to my mind. :-P
13:31:30 <fjb> Thanks for reminding me Belugas.
13:40:35 <Ammler> Belugas: would be sad, if not :P
13:40:53 <Ammler> else you were finished...
13:41:58 <Belugas> it would simply means that nobody would beg eternally about THAT feature inclusion...
13:42:08 <TrueBrain> bah, one thing that does need fixing for PBS, is that trains don't get through a signal based on their vehicleID, but rather on the time they are waiting for a junction :)
13:42:17 <fjb> And what news should OpenTTD 0.8, 0.9 etc. offer if there would be no more wishes and ideas?
13:43:10 <fjb> Oh, vehicle ID is the order creteria? I always wondered what it is.
13:44:01 <Ammler> TrueBrain: is that that way for other signal types?
13:44:26 <Belugas> fjb, we do not wait for users to develop our own ideas
13:45:12 <Ammler> something I liked from the old release was that trains wait for a short time until they start if the signal change from red to green
13:45:37 <fjb> More ideas is better. You have more ideas to chose from and take the best of them.
13:45:38 <Ammler> so a fast train on an other signal don't have to stop accidentially.
13:46:17 <Belugas> some ideas are so far fetched, or so lazyness oriented that it makes me want to puke all over the place
13:46:29 <TrueBrain> grrr @ game ... why isn't non-stop on by default :(
13:46:53 <fjb> Just ignore them or laugh about them. Some ideas are really funny.
13:47:05 <Belugas> oh... TrueBrain can effetively fix that hhehe
13:47:34 <Ammler> many default settings are based on TTD instead of logic...
13:47:52 <Belugas> fjb, that' was i was saying... they keep on beging for THAT idea/feature to be included :(
13:48:05 <Belugas> wheel's turning round and round
13:48:27 <Belugas> Ammler, of course, since we are based on TTD :P
13:48:32 <TrueBrain> PBS is getting used to :p
13:48:49 <Belugas> and the maion problem with :logic" is that everyone has its own logic :P
13:49:02 <Ammler> of course, specially me :P
13:49:20 * Ammler is mostly incompatible to you ;-)
13:49:21 <Belugas> that was my next comment ;)
13:50:17 <TrueBrain> whoho, deadlocks .. lovely :)
13:50:30 <fjb> Belugas: Do you have kids? :-) Kids make an endless effort to accomplish hopeless things.
13:51:26 <Belugas> I do have one indeed. My kid knows his limits, and when he wants to go further, he asks me if it's possible and if so, how
13:51:55 <fjb> Once you get used to that you can only smile about the people begging for their ideas.
13:52:13 <fjb> You raised him very well.
13:52:43 <Belugas> there was that lego train he was drooling on. he could not do it, since it was just an add. He asked me, we've found the plans at lego.com. Togueter, we started builduing it
13:53:51 <Belugas> fjb : Worse question asked : "I wonder what devs think of it" a dev answers, ends up in fierce battle
13:54:11 <Belugas> yeah, i do love Lego. Endless fun :)
13:54:22 <Belugas> evne more with the new shapes they added !
13:54:55 <fjb> Yeah, I wish I had that cool trains when I was a kid.
13:55:53 <TrueBrain> Civ IV on the XBox SUCKS
13:56:06 <Gekz> TrueBrain: please dont tell me you bought it
13:56:11 <Gekz> or I'll have to cry for you
13:56:14 <fjb> TrueBrain: Play OpenTTD. :-)
13:56:28 <Gekz> I play OpenTTD and freeciv
13:56:41 <TrueBrain> Gekz: I can't remember the last time I bought an xbox game :p
13:56:51 <TrueBrain> getting annoyed by the small 'problems' ..
13:57:16 <fjb> I play Civ III sometimes. Most of the time OpenbTTD or Neverwinter Nights.
13:57:38 <TrueBrain> not-default non-stop, took me a while to figure out why it was unloading in the wrong drive-through
13:57:54 <TrueBrain> NewGRFs can be VERY unclear in what a train can be
13:58:03 <TrueBrain> I somehow completely fail to build a certain train
13:58:04 <fjb> Worst investment was Age of Empires. :-( But it was only 10€.
13:58:13 <TrueBrain> one complains it doesn't have an engine (but it does ... as the info tells me it does!)
13:58:26 <TrueBrain> and for the other I can't find any wagon I can attach to it
13:58:43 <fjb> TrueBrain: Which train set?
13:59:05 <Ammler> I have a Neverwinter Nights CD here, but I guess, didn't play it longer then one hour in total...
13:59:20 <TrueBrain> fjb: dunno .. beta7 of openttdcoop most likely (the grfset, that is)
13:59:22 <TrueBrain> no idea what is in it :p
13:59:50 <fjb> Neverwinter Nights is fun if you are into roleplaying with other people.
14:00:21 <fjb> Ammler: Which train set is TrueBrain using?
14:00:41 <Ammler> we have almost every set in the pack :-P
14:00:56 <fjb> TrueBrain: Do you habve a screenshot somewhere?
14:01:11 <TrueBrain> and damn, I am good in creating deadlocks
14:01:43 <Ammler> TrueBrain: it might be worth to update the pack.
14:01:54 <fjb> I once had a deadlock at that 3 platform station I showed here yesterday.
14:02:00 <TrueBrain> Ammler: most likely
14:03:00 <TrueBrain> I don't really have an idea yet what is smart with PBS signals
14:03:51 <Ammler> TrueBrain: it is a little bit other gameplay then with TTDP, if you know PBS from there...
14:04:24 <TrueBrain> never played TTDp in my life
14:04:50 <Ammler> how did you find OpenTTD then?
14:05:45 <TrueBrain> I had Windows back then
14:05:48 <fjb> I found OpenTTD by looking into the list of games supported by wine. :-)
14:06:28 <TrueBrain> I remember one of my first games with TTD
14:06:34 <TrueBrain> which is scary, as that is like 11 years ago or so
14:06:51 <Ammler> yeah, was my 1. pc game
14:07:03 <TrueBrain> I even remember I won from the AI
14:07:06 <TrueBrain> an dI was proud about that
14:07:22 <petererer> I've only ever loaded up TTDP to compare NewGRF... and then only once or twice.
14:07:27 <Ammler> I fast found out to play without...
14:07:53 <Ammler> I played TTDP in times version <2
14:08:08 <petererer> Heh, faded from Jarre's Fifth Rendez-vous into Down In It...
14:08:12 <TrueBrain> and it is not because I don't like TTDp or what ever
14:08:17 <TrueBrain> just never played it
14:08:56 <TrueBrain> still no way to add all grfs at once?
14:09:01 <Ammler> well, you can't dislike TTDP and still like TTD, imo.
14:09:38 <TrueBrain> Ammler: just wanted to make perfectly clear I have nothing against TTDp, as people will copy what I said and put it out of context
14:09:41 <TrueBrain> wouldn't be the first time
14:10:07 <Ammler> OpenTTD Dev hates Patch :P
14:10:19 <TrueBrain> how fucking annoying ... /me is happy to know bash
14:11:17 <TrueBrain> Ammler: I once said I hated newgrf because it is a stupid format, and it was put out context that all developers hated newgrf and they want to remove it
14:11:39 <TrueBrain> having a personal opinion is something not all people understand :)
14:12:48 <TrueBrain> Ammler: there are too many grfs in the grfpack :(
14:13:01 <Ammler> Eddi|zuHause: have you ever seen the "proposal" of Eddi|zuHause for a new grf language?
14:13:17 <Ammler> TrueBrain: do you want one of my Presets?
14:13:35 <Ammler> the current cargodest game has a nice.
14:15:29 <Belugas> [10:09] <Ammler> OpenTTD Dev hates Patch :P <--bullocks! That is completely false
14:16:06 <Belugas> well... for the record... i don't hate it
14:16:10 <Ammler> you took it out from context :P
14:16:25 <nicfer> we do what TTDPatch don't
14:16:35 <nicfer> Sega's commercial parody
14:16:39 <TrueBrain> Ammler: see my problem :)
14:16:50 <Belugas> Ammler, my availabiltiy of InContest converstation is VERY limited... so... sorry
14:17:10 <TrueBrain> Belugas is exactly doing what I complain about when you make such statements .. it is put out of context directly after you said it :(
14:17:59 <TrueBrain> Ammler: include it in the packs :)
14:18:43 *** petererer is now known as peter1138
14:19:02 <Belugas> ok ok... /me is retiring from IRC up until he can be concentrated on it
14:19:07 <TrueBrain> no worries, will fetch trunk ;)
14:19:25 <Ammler> TrueBrain: the GRFs ARE from the pack
14:19:40 <TrueBrain> Ammler: so symlinking .. :p
14:19:51 * peter1138 symlinks Ammler to /dev/null
14:19:53 <TrueBrain> too lazy to rewrite the 'trunk' to the dirname :p
14:20:20 <TrueBrain> ini: ignoring invalid NewGRF 'trunk/8_vehicles/road_vehicles/grvts/egrvts.grf': not found
14:21:03 <TrueBrain> Ammler: lier lier, your pants are on fire!
14:21:50 <Ammler> that grf is also in the pack
14:21:59 <Ammler> just another place :-)
14:22:47 <TrueBrain> peter1138: haha, oops :)
14:23:19 <TrueBrain> Ammler: at least with trunk, it works :p
14:24:05 <Ammler> in which order does OpenTTD search for GRFs?
14:24:20 <Ammler> as trunk is after ottdc_grfpack
14:24:49 <TrueBrain> haha, cool, realistic maglev :p
14:25:32 <Ammler> NARS and UKRS has also trains for it.
14:26:31 <Ammler> as you can load tons of vehicle set at once :P
14:26:46 * peter1138 ponders removing that.
14:27:06 <Ammler> we don't use it mostly
14:28:29 <Ammler> well, for eyecandy with the transparency train.
14:32:41 <TrueBrain> wow, expensive trains ..
14:33:33 <Ammler> that is "normal" for most big train sets.
14:34:09 <TrueBrain> max loan, and I can't buy one :)
14:34:44 <Ammler> did you add other sets?
14:35:27 <glx> the limit is around 60 IIRC
14:35:51 <TrueBrain> Ammler: only load your grfs
14:35:55 <TrueBrain> (removed the rest :p)
14:36:09 <Ammler> on 2050, you should have billions
14:37:46 <TrueBrain> starting in 1990 seems more doable :p
14:46:14 <TrueBrain> Ammler: ieuw, ugly busses :(
14:48:07 <Ammler> I am not that much in love whith those, too.
14:49:48 <TrueBrain> why is that in red?
14:50:23 <TrueBrain> I first had the busses load in the first 2 stations, and unload in the last; I then changed it to just load and unload how ever they want, and now I have this red line ..
14:50:54 <peter1138> Cos there are bugs ;)
14:51:53 <TrueBrain> well, go fix thisone then ;)
14:52:19 <TrueBrain> removing the orders from the list and readding them solved it ..
14:54:36 <Ammler> TrueBrain, you need space for signals at your station
14:55:18 <Ammler> only terminus stations don't need them and your looks like will change to roro
14:56:49 <TrueBrain> Ammler: evne non terminus will do fine in this case
14:56:52 <TrueBrain> but look closely ;)
14:57:33 <TrueBrain> can you make a bus wait at a station till an other bus is arriving?
14:58:53 <TrueBrain> still doesn't allow me to do that
14:59:26 <TrueBrain> all this advanced order system, and such useful stuff still missing :)
15:00:05 <Ammler> you can trigger a bus waiting at station until the 2. arrives, that should work fine.
15:01:01 <Ammler> you should use timetables, else you will have soon the buses with same order in one wave.
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15:01:40 <TrueBrain> I don't see how I can set something that a bus stays at a station (or until full of course), and leave as soon as an other bus arrives ..
15:02:08 <TrueBrain> timetable is nice, but unloading doesn't always consume the same amount of time, making it not always like I would want :(
15:02:44 <TrueBrain> double clikc still doesn't work on many windows
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15:19:26 <fjb> The german road vehicles set has nice busses but sadly no trucks. And it modifies the base cost so it is not usefull together with other road vehicle sets.
15:20:22 <Eddi|zuHause> don't forget that it's an unfinished set...
15:20:58 <Celestar> the Ares V has been uprated to 188 tons :o
15:21:17 <fjb> Yes, but it will probably least months to years to complete it if not new developper shows up.
15:22:35 <fjb> What happened to the discussion about extending the type of the vehicle costs so the grf does not have to modify the base cost?
15:25:04 <Ammler> fjb: that would solve the problem with existing sets, better would be to "bind" the basecost to the grf itself only.
15:25:36 <peter1138> Your opinion is worth jackshit
15:26:23 <fjb> But sets are using sometimes unobvious base costs. And it would make the grfs which change the base costs to make things expensive useless.
15:27:22 <TrueBrain> bah, yet again no money to buy a second train ..
15:27:57 <fjb> And modifying a small variable for the cost and modifying some base cost is still limiting. The best way would be to introduce an extended variable for the cost. Something like the extended date.
15:28:01 <Ammler> peter1138: well, of course only those basecosts for vehicels, still "jackshit"?
15:28:43 <Belugas> fjb, coud you explain hw it would help?
15:29:15 <Belugas> note: there is a concern aobut costs been overriden by different grfs. So, how does your solutin fixes it?
15:29:21 <fjb> Ammler: The grf is free to use not only the base cost intended for the vehicles in the set. So if a set need some very cheap and some very expensive vehicles it would need to use two different bases.
15:30:49 <Belugas> thing is, base costs modification should not be allowed, imho
15:30:52 <fjb> Just let the base cost be like it is. But make the variable for the cost longer. So the set can have a wide variety of costs without modifying the default base cost.
15:31:14 <Belugas> wide variety of costs?
15:31:34 <peter1138> by increasing the cost factor from a byte to a word/dword
15:31:34 <fjb> If somebody wants to raise the cost aof a verhicle class he can modify the base cost.
15:31:57 <fjb> peter1138: That is what I tried to explain with my bad english.
15:32:24 <fjb> Thank you for translating it.
15:32:49 <TrueBrain> peter1138: is it possible in cargodest to automaticly have all items rolled out in station view? (now I have to press the + every time ;))
15:33:04 <peter1138> TrueBrain, dunno, write a patch? :p
15:34:02 <TrueBrain> peter1138: I clearly asked if it was POSSIBLE
15:34:08 <TrueBrain> not how I could make it possible :)
15:34:10 <fjb> Will increasing the cost factor break grf compatibility?
15:34:23 <peter1138> Yes, it is possible.
15:34:32 <peter1138> fjb, that's the trick ;)
15:34:42 <TrueBrain> without modifynig the source ;)
15:35:05 <peter1138> TrueBrain, you clearly asked if it was POSSIBLE, not how to do it.
15:35:15 <fjb> peter1138: How about introducing a new variable? That would not break old grfs but allow new grfs to use it.
15:35:29 <TrueBrain> sigh ... since when did everyone become nitwits :(
15:35:48 <TrueBrain> sorry I asked, I will close OpenTTD now, as clearly I can't get a normal response from anyone today :( (expect form Ammler :))
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15:39:49 <fjb> How can I convince a town to let me remove a piece of road?
15:40:31 <peter1138> Totally give up all hope if it's part of a closed loops.
15:42:10 <fjb> I have the best rating possible in that town. And I fear that it is part of a loop.
15:42:34 <peter1138> fjb, anyway, introducing a new variable is the plan.
15:42:35 <fjb> Do I have to destroy the whole road that comes after that tile?
15:42:46 <peter1138> If it's a loop, yes. Or cheat.
15:42:51 <TrueBrain> PBS is implemented in a _very_ nice way .. when you understand how signals work, it is very easy to build cool networks
15:42:56 <fjb> peter1138: So the plan is still worked on? That would be great news.
15:43:07 <peter1138> No, it's just the plan :p
15:43:48 <fjb> What are the TTDP devs thinking about it?
15:44:29 <TrueBrain> bah, the cheapest train is no longer available .... need to wait even longer before I can buy a 2nd :(
15:44:54 <frosch123> fjb: you have to enable the "allow to remove more town owned stuff"-advanced setting (or whatever it is called)
15:45:05 <frosch123> then you can remove also middle pieces
15:46:09 <fjb> frosch123: Thank you. It will do the town a favour. I will replace a level crossing by a bridge there.
15:46:18 <Belugas> [11:43] <fjb> What are the TTDP devs thinking about it? <--- reminds of something i said a few moments ago...
15:47:30 <TrueBrain> Ammler: I guess you need a coalmine and a powerplant to make something out of it with those newgrfs of yours :p
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15:47:41 <fjb> Belugas: Why? Any extension to the grf spec should stay as compatible as possible between both projects. So before implementing anything the spec should be thought out.
15:48:12 <Ammler> TrueBrain: is it the first time you play with newgrfs?
15:48:17 * Belugas smiles at the repeatiting scheme :)
15:48:23 <TrueBrain> Ammler: most likely
15:48:28 <Ammler> not only DBSet is that expensive
15:48:55 <Ammler> but if you start around 1950, you will have enough money later...
15:48:57 <TrueBrain> Ammler: it is okay that it is that expensive .. it is just hard to do anything real with pax only
15:49:06 <Ammler> and cargodest is known to have less income.
15:49:15 <TrueBrain> my mistake I guess ;)
15:49:45 <TrueBrain> maybe replace rail with tram :p
15:50:11 <Ammler> we used planes as moneymaker :P
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15:50:42 <TrueBrain> that most likely is an idea too
15:50:46 <Ammler> specially if you make the speed 1/1
15:51:49 <TrueBrain> fast forwarding 10 years now .. almost enough money ..
15:51:59 <TrueBrain> too bad the price of the train increases too .. :p
15:52:24 <peter1138> Should play with inflation off...
15:52:53 <Ammler> doesn't both rise (costs and income)
15:53:26 <peter1138> And, yes, they do, but at different rates.
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15:54:09 <TrueBrain> FINALLY! Now no money for wagons ..
15:54:16 <Rubidium> Ammler: yes, both rise... only income rises less fast than costs
15:54:56 <Ammler> yes waggons are also expensive on that set :-)
15:55:53 <TrueBrain> just I didn't had that amount :p
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15:57:24 <TrueBrain> hmmm ... negative costs when delivering stuff .. can never be a good sign :)
15:59:16 <TrueBrain> wow, 1 more train makes my income go from 2k in a year to 20k .. :p
15:59:27 <Ammler> TrueBrain: you will have that a lot with cargodest
15:59:48 <TrueBrain> crashing busses with trains
16:00:02 <TrueBrain> is it me, or do busses wait for reserved track too?
16:00:15 <TrueBrain> (the crashing is because of me being silly :p
16:00:21 <peter1138> They wait for unreserved track ;)
16:01:53 <Ammler> TrueBrain: pbs signal after road crossings :-)
16:02:55 <Ammler> if you have enough gap between signals, you will have less accidents then without pbs.
16:03:16 <TrueBrain> Ammler: yeah, I noticed :)
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16:03:32 <TrueBrain> just when there is a queue over the track for miles ..
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16:05:10 <TrueBrain> Ammler: 35 vehicles wanting to deliver at a single drive through station
16:05:15 <TrueBrain> how much do you think timetable can do?
16:05:29 <TrueBrain> as I said, it is me being silly ;)
16:05:49 <Ammler> drive through is the next topic on Celestars TODO,
16:07:25 <sexten> hmm. Is there any difference in the amount of i.e. coal you get if you only have 1 catchment area over the coal mine vs. 6?
16:08:59 <sexten> I'm a bit puzzled that it sometimes takes more than 1 catchment area covering the power station for the station to accept coal, so I thought it maybe worked the other way around as well
16:09:39 <Ammler> sexten: it needs 8/8 to accept a type of cargo
16:09:39 <frosch123> not every tile of the power station accepts coal
16:27:29 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: rubidium * r14414 /trunk/src/ (10 files in 4 dirs): -Fix: replace instances of strncpy with strecpy as strncpy doesn't guarantee the resulting string is '\0'-terminated.
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16:50:33 <DJNekkid> im haveing a slight problem with Action0 type 1A - Sort in purchase list.
16:52:03 <DJNekkid> for example: the one on lines 180, 181, 183, show up on the top of them all
16:52:31 <DJNekkid> and the on on line 32 shows up a long way down
16:53:01 <DJNekkid> any hints or tips? :)
16:53:38 <DJNekkid> and this is on the very end of the .nfo file
16:54:30 <peter1138> Yeah, type 1A does not work like that. Reread it.
16:55:48 <frosch123> "sort in purchase list" should be renamed to "move in purchase list"
17:00:03 <DJNekkid> well, i didnt get any whiser...
17:00:29 <peter1138> It is not "place at this position", it is "place before this id"
17:01:04 <DJNekkid> well, that i've understood, but when ALL trains are shuffeled?
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17:13:12 <DephNet[Paul]> I'm trying to get cargodest working with r14412, so I need to install boost, I am on a CentOS 5.2 machine and doing a "yum search boost" gives me http://pastebin.com/d5b2a527e am I right in thinking I need to do a "yum install boost boost-devel"? also after I have installed boost what else needs to be done? just compile and install as normal?
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17:15:37 <Ammler> DephNet[Paul]: mercurial
17:16:01 <Ammler> check the wiki page about cargodest.
17:16:54 <DephNet[Paul]> Ammler, i have but there is nothing on there about boost and CentOS
17:18:36 <Ammler> are you able to compile openttd trunk?
17:19:07 <DephNet[Paul]> Ammler, im currently running r14412, so i guess so
17:19:22 <Ammler> I think boost is the only additional lib, imo.
17:21:22 <Ammler> DephNet[Paul]: well, most use SVN or Mercurial to get the source
17:23:14 <Ammler> why don't you not just use the prebuilds?
17:24:01 <DephNet[Paul]> because i dont *want* to?
17:24:42 <DephNet[Paul]> in anycase i would still need boost to run the prebuilds
17:25:15 <DephNet[Paul]> would a simple "yum install boost" be enough, or are there extra libs i need?
17:25:25 <DephNet[Paul]> thats my origional question
17:25:53 <glx> boost is needed for compilation only
17:26:37 <DephNet[Paul]> thanks glx so i can just grab the binarys and it will work fine
17:32:51 *** Yeggs-work is now known as Yeggstry
17:39:35 <DaleStan> <DJNekkid> Action0 type 1A <-- Action 0s do not have types. NFO is hard enough; don't go inventing your own terminology.
17:40:29 <DJNekkid> sorry ... property then?
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17:42:18 <DJNekkid> sorry, it wont happen again... but i still dont see how i can sort my list properly
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17:45:51 <DJNekkid> what if i put up a list that sorts 0 to 0x73 first... hmm
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17:50:17 <DaleStan> It's not "sort". It's "move before". Move 72 before 73, then 71 before 72, then 70 before 71, &c. Or read the docs and see how to do that with just one action 0.
17:51:31 <DJNekkid> but still ... everything is moved...
17:51:53 <DJNekkid> and some of them goes way to high, or low
17:54:51 <DJNekkid> or ... when nr 5 and 6 is moved to 0, they turn into 0 and 1 ?
17:56:49 <DJNekkid> the better thing to do would be to give each one a uniqe number i guess...
17:57:30 <peter1138> You don't move it to 0
17:57:54 <peter1138> You move it to before id 0 is, whereever id 0 maybe be
17:59:47 <DJNekkid> so if id0 is at point 32 in the list, it's moved to point 31?
18:01:45 <peter1138> depends if it was before or after point 32 originally :)
18:02:15 <peter1138> but pretty much like that
18:03:24 <DJNekkid> well, what if i then move them into a range where i dont have any vehicle ID's...
18:03:29 <DJNekkid> start in 20k or something :)
18:04:47 <peter1138> If you tell it to go to move id 5 to before id 0, it will appear before id 0.
18:05:50 <DJNekkid> but if i tell ID 10.000 to go before 20.000 it should do just that? and id 4.000 to go before 20.001
18:06:15 <DJNekkid> and each and every vehicle is done just that...
18:06:40 <DJNekkid> and i could give each letter in each type (steam,diesel,electrics,DMU,EMU,railcar) for example 20 "spots"
18:07:27 <DJNekkid> or 25 ... that would be aprox 1000 per type
18:09:40 <DJNekkid> i'll give it a try i guess
18:12:14 <DJNekkid> you mean it wont work?
18:23:15 <DJNekkid> either that, or i should rearrange all the vehicle ID's so they make sense in a type/alphabetical fashion
18:24:13 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: smatz * r14415 /trunk/src/newgrf_industries.cpp: -Fix (r10074): void tiles could be the nearest 'land' for water industries
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18:34:17 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: smatz * r14416 /trunk/src/newgrf_industries.cpp: -Fix (r10074)(r10517): substraction was done the other way in the 'nearest land/water' check (~25% performance penalty)
18:43:54 <SmatZ> peter1138: sorry, that word sounds English for me :( what have I done wrong?
18:44:22 <peter1138> Possibly subtraction...
18:45:55 <SmatZ> mmm my dictionary knows that word, it is probably an Americanism, sorry
18:48:27 <dih> i dont even want to know what channel that was intended for
18:52:39 <Chrill> dih, #tycoon of course
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18:55:12 <dih> Chrill, what part of 'i dont want to know' do you not understand?
18:56:48 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: smatz * r14417 /trunk/src/newgrf_industries.cpp: -Codechange: rewrite GetClosestWaterDistance(), now it is ~100 times faster than pre-r14416 in average case
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19:11:10 <peter1138> Why those maximums?
19:11:36 <peter1138> Oh, they were there before.
19:11:42 <SmatZ> peter1138: max_x and max_y? so they ar available in registers and not re...
19:12:11 <SmatZ> I couldn't find that in the GRF specs, so I stood with the behaviour of old code
19:15:15 <peter1138> So does that affect ECS generation time?
19:16:04 <SmatZ> peter1138: yes, when the Agricultural vector is included, map generation should take much less time
19:16:21 *** Euro_swallow is now known as Swallow
19:16:35 <peter1138> I never really paid much attention to ECS, apart from Eddi|zuHause's complaints ;)
19:16:44 <peter1138> Or was it someone else... Hmm...
19:21:15 <SmatZ> all ECS vectors included, 1024x1024 map, High industries: 133 sec -> 13 sec ;-)
19:22:12 <frosch123> I would have never believed that just a single function caused the generation time
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19:25:06 <SmatZ> r14415 and r14416 were done so they can be backported :)
19:27:53 <Belugas> nice, SmatZ, very nice
19:28:22 *** Euro_swallow is now known as Swallow
19:28:32 <SmatZ> I didn't expect that huge speedup :)
19:29:00 <Wolf01> :o is for industries? I was thinking about ships pathfinding
19:29:04 <Belugas> ho... pure luck then? BOOOOH!!
19:30:00 <Wolf01> in any case, congratulations for this lucky achievement :D
19:34:40 <SmatZ> gemeration seed: 11111111111 r14415: 188sec r14416: 146sec r14417: 13sec
19:35:07 <frosch123> seed 123 is still running with 14411 :)
19:35:27 <frosch123> your computer is faster than mine
19:36:31 <peter1138> Any GRFs involved there?
19:36:38 <peter1138> (And what size map?)
19:36:46 <peter1138> Oh, all ECS, 1024x1024. I can read.
19:36:58 <frosch123> 1024^2, full ecs load, hilly terrain, high number of industries
19:37:16 <frosch123> 13s with HEAD, several minutes with 14411
19:39:09 <frosch123> for me: temperate, low towns, very low sea
19:39:31 <frosch123> but I start to wonder wheter "sevel minutes" is correct...
19:40:38 <frosch123> currently at 5s per industry
19:40:55 <peter1138> What hell are these big ship things :o
19:41:26 <peter1138> Oh god the bounding boxes for them are totally fucked :p
19:41:50 <glx> yeah george doesn't like BB
19:42:08 <peter1138> yeah, seems everything is 16x16xn
19:42:43 <glx> and he doesn't like splitting gfx in 'tiles'
19:42:47 <frosch123> don't look at the 4x2 tourist center at coast
19:43:25 <TrueBrain> trams are ugly (the rails for trams)
19:43:31 <peter1138> Each tree is an individual sprite...
19:43:52 <frosch123> not even the trees, also the persons and their personal stuff...
19:46:43 <Ammler> TrueBrain: if you still play with "my" presets
19:46:59 <Ammler> then you have an TramTracks GRF
19:47:08 <Ammler> maybe you like the original more.
19:47:21 <TrueBrain> Ammler: no, I did not :)
19:47:25 <TrueBrain> I do like the planes btw
19:48:42 <Belugas> i THINK George has some pre-conceived ideas about sprites and all
19:49:04 <Belugas> not only that, much more too...
19:51:04 <TrueBrain> I have 400 pax (of 400 pax) who want to go to some suburb station in a big town ... and nobody wants to go anywhere else .. smells wrong :p
19:51:57 <TrueBrain> ah, the to-display information is just slightly different then what I expected
19:54:24 <peter1138> Took a few minutes with r14415
19:55:58 <peter1138> God damn, ECS is ugly...
19:56:43 <Prof_Frink> Not as ugly as the orudgeset
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20:01:23 <Belugas> funny to note, some graphics have been generated for OpenTTD 32 bits :)
20:01:29 * frosch123 considers to abort the generation...
20:01:32 <Belugas> and George reused them
20:02:03 <Belugas> seems to proove that hand drawing is still the best way to go (on almost every case)
20:02:22 <frosch123> Belugas: the ships of opengfx look nice :)
20:02:38 <frosch123> but they are hand-tweaked
20:03:16 <Belugas> same as wth pikka's planes iirc
20:14:16 * Belugas wonders where George have seen that limit
20:38:49 * Belugas runs home and waves good night
20:39:16 * frosch123 does not need to run home, but also waves good night :)
20:41:22 * peter1138 grumbles at ticking fan
20:41:27 <peter1138> Unless it's a ticking bomb...
20:46:11 <fjb> Ticcking fan is not that great. Mostly results in a fanless fan...
20:49:23 <Eddi|zuHause> <Ammler> Eddi|zuHause: have you ever seen the "proposal" of Eddi|zuHause for a new grf language? <- what do you mean? "have i seen my own proposal?"
20:50:02 <Ammler> that was for TrueBrain as we spoke about GRF language
20:50:19 <TrueBrain> Eddi|zuHause: Ammler has problems .. Eddi|zuHause .. TrueBrain .. it looks so much alike
20:50:48 <Ammler> many times I do not type what I think...
20:51:04 <Eddi|zuHause> and it wasn't even a proposal, it was an alpha implementation, which i had no time to improve
20:51:14 <TrueBrain> many times I don't think what I type ;)
20:51:36 <Eddi|zuHause> many times i don't type when i think
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20:51:59 <Ammler> or worse, I type without thinking :P
20:52:34 <TrueBrain> Ammler: tha tI just said ;)
20:52:44 <peter1138> Worse still, you type.
20:53:57 <peter1138> And just when you think it couldn't get worse, yorick joins.
20:54:18 <Eddi|zuHause> <peter1138> I never really paid much attention to ECS, apart from Eddi|zuHause's complaints ;) <- yes, i complained about ECS many times :p
20:54:24 <TrueBrain> I 100% completely agree with you there :)
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20:58:21 <TrueBrain> Mortal invasion (again)
20:58:55 <mortal``> we're coming to take the heaven that is #openttd
20:59:20 <TrueBrain> @kick mortal I don't like that idea :p
20:59:20 *** Mortal was kicked by DorpsGek (I don't like that idea :p)
20:59:31 *** mortal`` is now known as mortal
20:59:39 <TrueBrain> always nice to kick dead clients :p
20:59:41 <mortal> hah! now you'll never be able to tell us apart!
21:00:27 <mortal> hmm, I guess I'd better hand in this assignment before my wlan dies completely
21:00:31 <TrueBrain> the question is if I care ;)
21:00:37 <peter1138> With a judicious kickban, we won't need to.
21:01:20 <TrueBrain> mortal: sounds like a plan :)
21:01:48 <fjb> Class 91 going backward looks awkward.
21:08:03 <Sacro|Laptop> fjb: slab end is ugly
21:09:18 <fjb> And I didn't think about the mail wagon that must be added as a control car.
21:11:26 <peter1138> Lies. The slab is beautiful.
21:19:22 <fjb> And I had to extend some stations for the pendolino. I went lucky because i planed then latest station a tile longer for aesthetical reasons.
21:31:16 <Prof_Frink> Sacro: You just lost the game.
21:31:38 <Sacro> Prof_Frink: the whole game?
21:31:48 * Sacro accidentally Prof_Frink
21:31:52 <Prof_Frink> (Our entry for The Game was a 91 Slab End)
21:58:36 <ccfreak2k> Where's the popular newgrf repository these days?
22:00:15 <ccfreak2k> Ooh, I'm sorry, that was the wrong answer.
22:00:27 <Ammler> there is no repository yet, just a database with links.
22:00:43 <ccfreak2k> That's close enough to a repository for me.
22:01:40 <Ammler> then grfcrawler is one of the better answers...
22:14:44 <peter1138> Woo, my live music show got 0 listeners :D
22:14:48 <peter1138> Just as well, you'd be pretty board.
22:16:34 <TrueBrain> I agree with peter1138 there: bored
22:16:58 <TrueBrain> (well, don't know about his music show, I do know about my current state :p
22:17:20 <peter1138> Well it was not a show.
22:17:30 <peter1138> It was me fiddling on my keyboard.
22:18:07 <TrueBrain> so it was a good thing ;)
22:19:37 *** the_bat has joined #openttd
22:19:46 <TrueBrain> the_bat: how is the cave?
22:20:19 <the_bat> how to make the rebuild ... how to change the cargo type in depot?
22:20:41 <the_bat> i click the rebuild option and the list is empty
22:21:48 <the_bat> how can I change cargo type from wood to paper for the train
22:22:32 <TrueBrain> ah, refit .. I was wondering what 'rebuild' meant :)
22:23:02 <TrueBrain> the_bat: you can't refit all wagons to something; some can, some can't. Check their description of which can.
22:23:36 <TrueBrain> signing off; good night all!
22:26:15 <the_bat> where I may find the description of the weagon?
22:26:40 <the_bat> in game I have only information about amount of cargo and nothing more
22:27:17 <the_bat> or only is... in game :-)
22:28:21 <Yexo> if the list of cargo types is empty, you need to buy another wagon, as you can't refit the one you have
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22:45:14 <the_bat> hmmm... I try to refit all type of weagons and nothing .... always have blank list
22:45:53 <the_bat> someone refit his trains?
22:46:22 <the_bat> I know how to refit the ship but trains doesn't work
22:47:34 <the_bat> is refit working for trains?
22:47:51 <the_bat> any type and how to make it ?
22:49:22 <the_bat> but when I make order to the train to make refit i always get the blank list... in depot I have weagon for each cargo and for test I get steam with one weagon ... change for all cargo and nothing happen
22:51:10 <fjb> Which train set are you using?
22:52:57 <fjb> The default vehicles are from the original TTD game and are not refittable.
22:53:00 <Yexo> the default train wagons are not refittable, so if you don't use a train grf, you can't refit them
22:53:35 <the_bat> which grf I must install?
22:53:49 <the_bat> generic tram set 0.4 is not for trains
22:53:51 <Yexo> why do you want to refit those train wagons anyway?
22:54:31 <the_bat> in railroad tycoon I may refit on each station ... I want to test some new features
22:55:03 <Yexo> the_bat: if you use a refit order, you pay a cost for refitting every time, so that is generally not used
22:55:36 <the_bat> refit costs = cost of new weagons or less???
22:56:40 <the_bat> I know it's not good idea in multiplayer when u must be as quick as u can
22:56:44 <fjb> Have a look at the train sets.
22:57:32 <Yexo> try a few and pick one you like
22:57:45 <the_bat> and one more question
22:58:00 <fjb> Depends on what you are used to. European, northern american, tropical. What do you prefer?
22:58:04 <the_bat> 32bpp graphic how to set it?
22:58:40 <fjb> There is a command line option that enables the 32bpp blitter. And you need a 32bpp set too.
22:59:31 <the_bat> where can I find the set of 32bpp graphics?
23:00:05 <Yexo> and probably there are more in the openttd graphics forum
23:00:30 <Ammler> 32bpp is only fun with zoom level...
23:02:18 <the_bat> ok I try all the links in game ... hardly all :-))) but toomorrow thx bye
23:02:29 <peter1138> where 'fun' means 'crashy'
23:05:50 *** Yeggstry is now known as Yeggzzz
23:19:53 <ccfreak2k> Did YAPP make its way into 0.6.3?
23:22:53 <Yexo> no, 0.6.3 is a bugfix only release
23:46:58 <fjb> Why do busses always break down at level crossings?
continue to next day ⏵
