IRC logs for #openttd on OFTC at 2008-09-20
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00:06:50 <ln-> names are supposed to be generated, not listed.
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03:24:22 <roboboy> fixing a problem with mibbit
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06:26:33 <TrueBrain> it is WAY too early for a saturday morning
06:26:43 <roboboy> fixing a problem with mibbit
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06:26:46 <roboboy> fixing a problem with mibbit
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06:30:59 <TrueBrain> even this channel is not awake ..
06:31:12 <TrueBrain> I need to buy matches, maybe my eyes stay open that way
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06:52:40 * roboboy wishes he didnt start his company at all on brians server
07:27:07 <jpm> Is there any list of gfx packs which are compatible with current truck?
07:27:56 <dih> and those files are called GRF
07:28:51 <DorpsGek> Alberth: TrueBrain was last seen in #openttd 57 minutes and 38 seconds ago: <TrueBrain> I need to buy matches, maybe my eyes stay open that way
07:29:27 <Alberth> TrueBrain: Any particular reason why you posted the VCS URL links at the forum and not at the Wiki?
07:40:06 <jpm> dih: I did use google, search forum and GRFCrawler but no success...
07:40:27 <dih> jpm: you searched for grf pack?
07:41:22 <dih> you searched google for grf package?
07:41:38 <dih> i dont believe you if you say yes, because the first hit is a pretty good one
07:43:37 <dih> if i search for grf package i get a very very beautiful hit
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07:44:13 <Alberth> Celestar: Good morning
07:44:19 <jpm> Anyway same grf packages which I have been using are not compatible with r14325 anymore. Game crashes are couple of years
07:44:29 <Eddi|zuHause> you watch too much star wars :p
07:45:06 <jpm> crashes after couple of years...
07:45:58 <dih> jpm: i just pointed you to a great google result page
07:46:38 <peter1138> Dih, google result pages are not always the same for everyone.
07:47:47 <dih> result pages may differ across the various domains (i.e. google.com and google.de)
07:48:33 <Alberth> In this case, I suspect there is a huge difference between searching for 'grf' and 'grf pack'
07:48:35 <Eddi|zuHause> domain is not relevant, afaik. more language settings and stuff
07:49:00 <Celestar> Rubidium: you got a sec?
07:49:27 <dih> jpm: visit www.openttdcoop.org
07:49:48 <dih> Eddi|zuHause, and domain is also relevant
07:50:00 <jpm> dih: good page, I have been there many times. It would be nice to have last modified date information for grf packs...
07:50:37 <Alberth> jpm: Isn't the version number enough?
07:51:10 <dih> the date is displayed in brackets next to the version number
07:52:44 <jpm> dih, I mean individual grf packs like Estonian Town Names
07:53:53 <dih> you either have the pack and they are all compatible, or you search for yourself :-P
07:55:37 <Ammler> jpm: check the GRFLIST.html in the pack.
08:02:59 <jpm> Can you say are original grf files still compatible with truck or should I use OpenGFX files like opengfx1r.grf
08:04:45 <Alberth> Assuming 'original' means the GRF files from TTD, yesterday they were (and it is 'trunk' not 'truck')
08:09:24 <jpm> Maybe OpenGFX_-_newInfrastructure_v0.4.grf or OpenGFX_-_newInfrastructure_v0.4.grf is causing crash...
08:10:21 <jpm> Crashes in vehicle.cpp on line 953 : b >= v->top_coord) {
08:11:17 <dih> then play without additional grf files and see what happens ;-)
08:11:18 <Ammler> you should use the newest files for bugreports...
08:12:08 <jpm> Ammler: Where I can found newest grf files? From forum? from crawler? From google?
08:13:50 <dih> jpm, just for once try to find stuff yourself! :-P
08:14:03 <dih> try the forums, if there is something newer than you have, use that
08:14:15 <dih> try grf crawler, if you find something newer in there than you have, use that
08:14:26 <dih> try google, if you find something newer in there, use that
08:14:41 <dih> try the grf pack from openttdcoop, if you find something newer in there than you have, use that
08:15:08 <jpm> dih, I have been searching grf files for years... Sometimes I have managed to get working package. No its broken.
08:16:01 <dih> search the forums for opengfx_newinfrastructure
08:16:09 <dih> what is so hard about that?
08:16:34 <dih> just because it means you need to read a few pages before you get what you are after?
08:16:49 <dih> Ammler already hinted that there was a newer version of that said grf
08:18:28 <Eddi|zuHause> hmm... i still have not found a way to rearrange the windows in the taskbar...
08:19:34 <dih> why would i - i am not searching for anything :-P
08:19:57 <dih> i am quite aware of the opengfx project
08:20:42 <jpm> dih: I was just wondering is there any list of grf files which are compatible current trunk?
08:21:29 <dih> most of the ones i know are in the openttdcoop grf pack
08:21:40 <dih> version 7.2 also still includes the opengfx project
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08:22:36 <dih> now i searched for opengfx_newinfrastructure
08:22:42 <dih> and have already found a 0.5
08:23:52 <Ammler> I know no newgrf which isn't compatible anymore, well, maybe it gives a strange debug output, but...
08:24:39 <dih> were there not authors who made their grf's incompatible for a reason?
08:25:00 <Ammler> well, I know none of them
08:25:23 <dih> Rubidium would know some i think
08:27:07 <peter1138> An incompatible GRF would not work properly in TTDPatch.
08:28:30 <jpm> Okey, what does this mean: Batti5 : The new infrastrucutre gives a fatal error, and much of the grfs dont work! in r14325 and FooBar's answer: Yes, we (or, at least, I) know. Will not be fixed though because opengfx1r.grf is almost complete and a test version released. Use that instead, or downgrade to an older version of OpenTTD.
08:30:20 <Ammler> do you need translator or what?
08:32:06 <jpm> I thought there have been made big changes in trunk so that old grfs are not working anymore...
08:32:08 <Alberth> jpm: Welcome to bleeding edge releases
08:33:02 <Ammler> jpm: afaik only error/debug handling...
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08:42:40 <Alberth> jpm: In general, GRFs work afaik. However, some combinations work and others don't. Also, everything is actively being developed, so the set of working combinations changes in time. As long as you speak in general terms (GRFs in general), we cannot really help you due to the several zillion possible combinations that you may or may not use. If you have a specific combination that fails in trunk but not in the latest release, find out what the b
08:43:24 <Eddi|zuHause> your client fails :p
08:43:56 <Eddi|zuHause> my client automatically breaks such long sentences into several lines ;)
08:46:04 <Alberth> Eddi|zuHause: This is still the first IRC client program that I use :P
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08:48:44 <jpm> Alberth: I see, I was just seeking some centralized list of grf files to help finding working compinations.
08:50:03 <jpm> Maybe openttdcoop is provading most complete lists...
08:50:40 <peter1138> Well grfcrawler is supposed to be that... alas...
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08:51:18 <Alberth> jpm: That list changes as a result of development. If you can find a way to keep it up-to-date for the zillion combinations, we will all be very happy
08:52:08 <jpm> Alberth: I will think about it...
08:53:09 <jpm> It would need grf compination tester.
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08:56:18 * Celestar wants to merge cargodest :P
08:57:38 <jpm> Eddi|zuHause: Wait a second, I will send it to you email in hour :)
08:58:04 <Eddi|zuHause> jpm: i was not talking to your
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09:55:16 <planetmaker> [10:25] [grf-talk] <Ammler> well, I know none of them <-- the latest canset might not work for revisions > r14000
09:56:12 <Ammler> it does not with dyn. pool
09:56:15 <planetmaker> but as the devellopers have gone sulking and withdrew them, it's mute to mind it.
09:57:15 * planetmaker sees Celestar's next OpenTTD project dawning :P
09:58:06 <planetmaker> Celestar: just a random question: how good are chances to reduce the dependancy of cargodest on the boost package?
09:58:32 <planetmaker> e.g. how much additional code will be integrated into trunk once you start merging it?
09:58:43 <planetmaker> the whole library sort-of?
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09:58:57 <Celestar> planetmaker: the whole BGL needs to be installed during compile-time
09:59:08 <Celestar> planetmaker: no additional software is needed during run-time
09:59:21 <planetmaker> yeah, I was talking about compile-time :)
09:59:45 <Celestar> planetmaker: I dunno. maybe at some point I feel like writing a graph library :P
10:00:05 <planetmaker> :P I got doubts that that will be anytime soon :)
10:00:24 <Celestar> planetmaker: it's a pretty enormous project
10:00:31 <Celestar> planetmaker: I'll rather fix multistop first (=
10:01:24 * Celestar wonders whether "neuron" has actually bothered to read the wiki/forum thread at all.
10:01:42 <planetmaker> you got yourself a rough schedule for the further cargodest development? (I don't want to nail or hold you liable to anything, just curious)
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10:02:42 <planetmaker> or, maybe rather guestimate than schedule :)
10:03:00 <Celestar> planetmaker: that depends on how much the Other Devs want change for a merge. I don't think I'll introduce new features to cargodest before the merge.
10:03:25 <Celestar> planetmaker: I think trunk merge might be possible in not too distance future (=
10:04:01 <planetmaker> no, sure, no new features, that'd be too much. KISS principle is always advisable, especially with new features :)
10:05:18 <Celestar> feature wise, it's basically frozen for the moment
10:05:32 <planetmaker> the features are quite awesome :)
10:06:09 <Celestar> I feel like doing another test
10:06:17 <Celestar> I have a bit of time tomorrow and next week
10:06:42 * planetmaker got no time till middle of 2nd next week... I'll head for conference early Monday morning
10:07:58 <planetmaker> but the dev servers is yours to use :)
10:07:59 <Celestar> I've just had 2 conference in the past 2 weeks.
10:08:08 <Celestar> I've return from Berlin yesterday night.
10:08:21 <Celestar> it was my first ever try to use the ICE from Munich-Berlin and v.v.
10:08:33 <planetmaker> :) Should be alright, is it?
10:08:44 <Eddi|zuHause> Celestar: yeah, they are currently setting the pillars for the bridge
10:08:54 <Celestar> planetmaker: yes. but it takes 5.5h.
10:08:54 <planetmaker> I ever only tested half-way: Jena-Berlin or Jena-Munich (and vice versa)
10:09:38 <planetmaker> yeah... going by plane saves you maybe two hours or so? (Considering check-in and travel times to and from the airports)
10:09:43 <peter1138> Artic road vehicle problems!
10:09:45 <Celestar> planetmaker: 1.5hrs about.
10:09:58 <Ammler> [11:59] <Celestar> planetmaker: I dunno. maybe at some point I feel like writing a graph library <-- copy&paste the boost?
10:10:04 <peter1138> I just saw a 2 part vehicle with both parts on each other :o
10:10:13 <peter1138> It went into the depot and fixed itself.
10:10:23 <Celestar> planetmaker: yesterday from Berlin, we had 20 minutes delay in Leipzig, but arrived 5 Minutes early in Nuremburg.
10:10:25 <planetmaker> peter1138: lol :)
10:10:38 <murray> SpComb: talk like a pirate day was yesterday
10:10:39 <planetmaker> Celestar: he :) nice speed gain :)
10:10:50 <Eddi|zuHause> in Ammendorf they already started the bridge itself. i go by there every now and then
10:11:16 <Celestar> planetmaker: Without any modification, 5hours would be possible with a little schedule optimizations.
10:11:33 <Celestar> without modification to tracks.
10:11:36 <planetmaker> Celestar: and get rid of any error margin, probably :)
10:11:49 <Celestar> planetmaker: yeah, but >10% margin is a little much.
10:12:12 <Celestar> Munich-Nuremburg can be done in 55 minutes with an ICE3, the fastest schedule is 62 minutes however.
10:12:43 <planetmaker> not that bad, I think. 10% isn't that much IMO.
10:13:01 <Kasceh> What would I need to type in console to increase station spread if I knew the rcon?
10:13:13 <Celestar> Kasceh: patch max_station_spread <value> ?
10:13:29 <planetmaker> otherwise: rtfm ;)
10:13:36 <Celestar> Kasceh: .. without "max_"
10:13:49 <Kasceh> so rcon pass patch station_spread xx?
10:14:01 <planetmaker> in general it's a good idea to check your config for the name of the patch option.
10:14:23 <planetmaker> rcon pass "patch station_spread 42"
10:15:26 <planetmaker> btw, dear devs: May I propose to rename this "patch" into "set"?
10:15:32 <planetmaker> It's not really a patch but a setting...
10:15:39 <Celestar> Eddi|zuHause: it's embarrassing how long this country needs for 100km of high speed track :P
10:16:26 <Eddi|zuHause> Celestar: well, this bride does cross nature-protection areas and stuff...
10:16:57 <Eddi|zuHause> i'm actually wondering how they managed to get permission at all :p
10:17:07 <Kasceh> Where is the config file
10:17:16 <Celestar> Eddi|zuHause: I'm too, but since permission is there, they could as well hurry
10:18:13 <Eddi|zuHause> well, according to my observations, they put up like one pillar per week...
10:18:18 <Alberth> Kasceh: What about searching for openttd.cfg?
10:18:21 <Wolf01> what's the progress with the mind control device for OTTD?... oh wait.. that was a dream
10:18:28 <Kasceh> Ah, i was searching for just "config" :p
10:19:07 <Eddi|zuHause> Wolf01: there was a link for a BCI adapter a while ago
10:19:23 <planetmaker> me->give(Celestar,soap) ;)
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10:23:47 <Eddi|zuHause> a like 10 years ago they had a presentation at our school how they were planning the route, and they considered like 4 alternative routes. one was a little further south, which would have passed through a chemical industry area, but after they made ground tests they quickly threw away that idea, as they would have spent enormous amounts of money to get rid of the top layer of earth first :p
10:25:20 <Eddi|zuHause> another alternative was, instead of using the old thuringian entrance (Eisenach-Erfurt-Weißenfels-Halle), they would take the entrance of the Kassel-Nordhausen-Halle track, a little further north, but then they would have built through a mining area, where the ground was unstable
10:25:37 <Eddi|zuHause> (there was an earthquake a few years ago)
10:25:44 <Eddi|zuHause> (due to a collapsing mine)
10:26:44 <Eddi|zuHause> i don't remember what the fourth option was
10:27:31 <Ammler> planetmaker: maybe it is meant to "patch" the setting ;-)
10:30:31 <Eddi|zuHause> planetmaker: that should be a small patch ;)
10:31:37 <Ammler> ln-: amateurs = debian?
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10:32:15 <planetmaker> Eddi|zuHause: :) possibly
10:33:43 <rk47> i have some question to make about ottd..
10:35:08 <rk47> is it possible to rotate map? :s
10:36:30 <rk47> but was it possible in the original ottd?
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10:53:21 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: frosch * r14362 /trunk/src/train_cmd.cpp: -Fix (r3403): Also connect multiheaded parts in free wagon chains.
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11:19:44 <Doorslammer> I didnt realise that he wanted to draw the Iranian 141 himself :S
11:20:59 <Doorslammer> Not being biased or anything, davidx123's one was crap :P So Ive provided him with a new sprite :)
11:21:11 * Doorslammer adds his own brownie points to the table
11:21:14 <peter1138> Well, that's not surprising.
11:21:37 <Doorslammer> Does he even know what he wants in the set?
11:22:12 <Doorslammer> I dont have a clue where it's going. I dont know which countries, what locos etc.
11:22:14 <peter1138> Don't expect a newbie to know anything...
11:22:30 <Doorslammer> Oh I'm not, trust me ;)
11:23:23 <Doorslammer> I do want a success at least, because it is rather different and a good idea, just hope he clearly defines what it's all about very soon
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11:55:44 * peter1138 wonders if, in the absence of shared infrastructure, cargodest could be made to work between adjacent stations.
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12:52:42 <Alberth> yorick: So much trouble just to get in :P
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14:17:31 <roboboy> fixing a problem with mibbit
14:17:31 *** roboboy has joined #openttd
14:17:36 <roboboy> fixing a problem with mibbit
14:17:36 *** roboboy has joined #openttd
14:17:41 <roboboy> fixing a problem with mibbit
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14:19:21 <peter1138> His internet connection sucks, so instead of having it fixed, he uses a web-based IRC client.
14:21:05 <roboboy> lets see if x-chat gets in again
14:21:08 <ln-> the quit/join flood is not enough, he has to even say something every time
14:21:50 <roboboy> would you rather know why im part joining than random spam?
14:22:48 <roboboy> well i reported the bug to both chrome and mibbit
14:23:32 <Doorslammer> Gawd's sake, more mibbits than a bloody frog
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14:36:53 <sulai> how are you guys doing :)
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14:56:06 <ccfreak2k> peter1138, if he has a shell server, he can do what I do and use psybnc.
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16:08:09 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: glx * r14363 /trunk/src/video/win32_v.cpp: -Fix [FS#2206]: some keypress combinations could be handled twice
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16:11:14 <Kasceh> Is there a command to see a company list and their id?
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16:28:57 <Doorslammer> I'm not a good judge of these sorts of things, Ted, but I'd guess there is about 17 million people in here...
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16:49:21 <TrueBrain> Wolf01: biker-addition is COOL!
16:51:15 <Forked> if you have access to a "shell server", why use psybnc? just use irssi :)
17:11:58 <sulai> what about making string_func object oriented? I was just trying to create an own news message and it's a pain ;)
17:13:32 <sulai> hm not sure if I have enough knowledge of the code to do that
17:14:00 <sulai> and even if I did, how propably is it to get into the trunk... it's not very likely I think
17:14:25 <SpComb> next time roboboy is here, someone tell him that you can give /part a message...
17:15:02 <peter1138> sulai, what would it gain?
17:15:29 <sulai> peter1138: ever tried to add another news message?
17:15:53 * frosch123 added some for autoreplace
17:16:31 <peter1138> No, but I don't see how string_func.h is related.
17:16:38 <sulai> I'm newbie to the code... and I just see... SetDParam.. hm what for??!
17:17:13 <frosch123> to fill the {xxx} with content
17:17:15 <Eddi|zuHause> SetDParam sets the values that will be replaced for {STRING}, {COMMA} etc.
17:17:23 <sulai> if it was object oriented it would look like: my_string.setparam... ok a little less confusion ;)
17:17:24 <peter1138> "I don't know what it's for, therefore I'll rewrite it all"?
17:17:42 <yorick> you can replace ',' by something else?
17:17:45 <sulai> Eddi|zuHause: I know... but it's not very nice coding style
17:18:05 <Wolf01> TrueBrain: today I unlocked 13 cars and all the B class events
17:18:05 <Eddi|zuHause> yorick: i have a patch for that on flyspray ;)
17:18:21 <yorick> still shouldn't be with DParam
17:18:33 <TrueBrain> Wolf01: I only played with Motors lately :)
17:18:33 <peter1138> yorick, gives a number with commas.
17:18:39 <peter1138> 1,000 instead of 1000
17:18:41 <TrueBrain> 40% done, and many MP thingies :)
17:19:01 * yorick hides back under stone
17:19:06 <Eddi|zuHause> sulai: no, it uses global variables, it is definitely not nice style, but it is there and it works
17:20:04 <Eddi|zuHause> you don't just spend hours or even days replacing something just because it is bad style
17:20:17 <peter1138> You'll have fun with converting windows.
17:20:23 *** ChanServ sets mode: +v tokai
17:20:41 <Wolf01> me 43% done and only 2 MP objectives
17:20:41 <Eddi|zuHause> you only rewrite something because it reduces maintenance reduces by several orders of magnitude
17:20:45 <frosch123> and newgrf texts :)
17:20:57 <sulai> I just wonder if we could do it object oriented... don't know how much work it is, and the latest thing I want to do is to ask some of you to do it ;)
17:21:51 <yorick> now I wonder why windows thinks that referencing a NULL pointer is a problem caused by Trojan.PWS.Legmir.AD / W32.Ahlem.A@mm
17:21:59 <sulai> hm but anyway I got news ;)
17:22:35 <sulai> I just made a patch which shows a newspaper if some player gets a new performance rate title
17:23:11 <sulai> (thats why I had some contact to SetDParam())
17:23:29 <glx> SetDParam() is easy to use
17:23:44 <yorick> I wouldn't like even more news...
17:26:49 <frosch123> NewNews could be an addition to NewObjects and NewDisasters
17:27:09 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: truebrain * r14364 /branches/noai/src/rail_cmd.cpp: [NoAI] -Add: add the ability to CmdBuildSingleSignal to directly place the correct signal, instead of requiring multiple inputs before doing so
17:28:55 <sulai> yes... and news can be turned off
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17:30:58 <Eddi|zuHause> frosch123: newobjects, is that like eyecandy buildings?
17:31:18 <frosch123> ask Belugas or Lakie, but I think so
17:32:17 <Eddi|zuHause> i had this idea once, that such eyecandy objects, in conjunctions with newgrf_ports could be used to create non-station predefined road layouts. like cloverleaf highway crossings
17:33:21 <Eddi|zuHause> things that wouldn't be possible by just putting (new)road bits together
17:37:04 <Lakie> Just eye candy objects.
17:37:26 <Lakie> There is no code to even handle a rv or train trying to enter the tile let alone how to move it on the tile
17:43:18 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: glx * r14365 /trunk/src/rail_cmd.cpp: -Backport (r14364 from NoAI): add the ability do CmdBuildSingleSignal to directly place the correct signal, instead requiring multiple inputs before doing so
18:02:11 <Eddi|zuHause> Lakie: well, yes, the movement part would come from newgrf_ports (once it is extended to bus/tram stations)
18:08:53 *** ChanServ sets mode: +o Bjarni
18:14:35 <Lakie> What level of overhead would that add for objects newgrf specs though?
18:14:49 <Lakie> Also I can't see why you need objects for that end
18:31:43 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: frosch * r14366 /trunk/src/train_cmd.cpp: -Fix (r14362): Match multiheaded parts starting from the first vehicle in a chain.
18:31:58 <frosch123> don't complain about desyncs for today's nightly :)
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18:33:55 <TrueBrain> frosch123: I have a desync! :p
18:34:29 * TrueBrain goes sit in a corner being quiet and all
18:34:29 <Wolf01> Eddi|zuHause: do you mean something like the highway junctions on sim city 3000?
18:34:55 <frosch123> well, actually I guess I am lucky, as it is not that easy to trigger
18:34:57 <Eddi|zuHause> more like those of 4000
18:35:57 <nckomodo> holy crap that looks awesome
18:36:18 <Eddi|zuHause> no, 3000 is rubbish
18:36:20 <nckomodo> and then suddenly I realized it was not OTTD
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18:36:29 <Eddi|zuHause> it doesn't have the indirect loops
18:37:02 <Eddi|zuHause> which is unsuitible for ottd, because they should actually be used...
18:37:06 <frosch123> silly junction, you cannot turn left
18:39:06 <Eddi|zuHause> that's the silliest thing i have ever seen...
18:40:07 <Eddi|zuHause> you could place those as a whole, and then attach normal highways to each end
18:40:35 <TrueBrain> wow, did I end up in the wrong channel
18:40:58 <TrueBrain> today I many times heard about teleports, but this ..
18:43:24 <Eddi|zuHause> you could theoretically do that with just newgrf_ports, but then it would have to be a station, which is not really desireable
18:44:14 <Wolf01> set it as a non-stop destination and you have a waypoint-junction
18:45:01 * TrueBrain back to his bikes .. I like driving bikes :)
18:46:01 <frosch123> Eddi|zuHause: You have a very idealized vision of newgrf_ports :)
18:46:31 <TrueBrain> frosch123: maybe Eddi|zuHause wants to join the team on newgrf_ports? :)
18:47:08 <Ammler> Wolf01: join before split :P
18:47:34 <Wolf01> they have basetunnels!!!
19:01:21 <Eddi|zuHause> damn, now i need to play sc4 again...
19:01:40 <Eddi|zuHause> hm... i have no idea if it even runs under wine
19:01:48 <Eddi|zuHause> and i have also no idea where i put it...
19:04:38 <nick> how can i prevent people mass terraforming til the point it destroys the map in a multiplayer game ?
19:05:13 <peter1138> Or password protect the server and don't give out the password...
19:05:53 <nick> i want it to be public as 90% of public play nice
19:06:10 <Bjarni> trace the IPs of the offenders and show up at their home and beat the shit out of them
19:06:36 <Sacro> there's someone at the door
19:07:53 <Slowpoke> Watch out, Sacro, it's Bjarni!
19:08:08 <nick> is there a way to make teraforming cost a lot !?
19:08:55 <Bjarni> write a patch to increase cost and wait two years for it to be committed
19:09:44 <Wolf01> basecosts or how it is called
19:10:06 <Bjarni> actually it would be nice to have a limit (maybe based on company size) where terraforming is as it is now below the limit and once you are over, it either cost a fortune or you can't at all
19:10:24 <Bjarni> something like you can only terraform x times every month
19:10:44 <Ammler> or based on town rating
19:10:47 <Bjarni> which would prevent huge drag n drop terraforming
19:11:25 <Bjarni> Ammler: how would town rating prevent a single huge terraforming?
19:11:31 <Wolf01> it would be nice to have the terraforming cost as cost^tiles, so you can terraform one tile per time, but more tiles you terraform more you pay
19:11:50 <Bjarni> that would make drag n drop useless
19:11:54 <Ammler> Bjarni: first there shouldn't be a min. for town rating
19:12:05 <yorick> people would just create new commands
19:12:06 <Ammler> (switch off tree cheating)
19:12:30 <Wolf01> maybe this behavior could be enabled when the number of tiles is larger than 10x10
19:12:31 <Ammler> then you can only as much terraform as your town allows, like stations
19:13:26 <Bjarni> max number of terraformed tiles/month would actually be interesting
19:13:42 <Bjarni> specially if the number is really low
19:14:09 <Bjarni> would make the game harder
19:14:33 <Bjarni> and surely build on slopes wouldn't count as terraforming
19:15:01 <Wolf01> the limit should be based on the difficulty
19:15:15 <Ammler> that should also splitted, terraforming and foundations have same base.
19:15:16 <Bjarni> either that or a server setting
19:15:34 <peter1138> Splitted is not a word.
19:15:57 * Bjarni still wonders what Ammler actually intend to say
19:16:59 <murray> < Ammler> murr4y is the coolest and most evil skull on the planet
19:17:05 <peter1138> Maybe the base cost for terraforming and using foundations should be split up.
19:17:22 <peter1138> (To which I say, nope.)
19:17:23 <murray> that's what he meant to say
19:17:42 <peter1138> murray, your goal is to be an evil skull?
19:18:07 <peter1138> Oh, well, if you're making demands, you can also bugger off.
19:18:13 <Bjarni> he is the most evil skull in the world
19:18:33 <Bjarni> be nice to him or he will scare you
19:18:45 <peter1138> No, the only skulls that scare me were those in Doom.
19:18:45 <Bjarni> he might scare you even if you are nice to him though
19:19:05 <Bjarni> murray: now it's time to go "BOO!"
19:20:30 <Ammler> peter1138: why wouldn't you split that?
19:20:40 <peter1138> Oh, they were Lost Souls, weren't they?
19:21:04 <Bjarni> I never really understood Doom
19:21:18 <Ammler> doesn't newgrf basecost allow it?
19:21:21 <peter1138> Well no, you're a Mac user.
19:21:41 <Bjarni> I never really understood 1st person shooting games
19:21:59 <murray> what's there to understand?
19:22:52 <murray> so.. you just don't enjoy them?
19:23:14 <Bjarni> <peter1138> Well no, you're a Mac user. <-- I actually tried Doom before I got my first mac
19:23:36 <Bjarni> <murray> so.. you just don't enjoy them? <-- what's there to enjoy?
19:24:50 <murray> good question, however, they kinda vary in quality
19:24:57 <murray> the hl2 experience is imo epic
19:24:58 <jpm> Is there any way to change username for forum?
19:25:51 <Bjarni> I think the goal of killing everything that moves is kind of sick
19:26:04 <murray> some fps has that as goal, not all
19:26:07 <Bjarni> in fact killing in 1st person perspective is kind of sick
19:26:17 <murray> better than killing irl
19:26:30 <nckomodo> I never finished hl2
19:26:37 <nckomodo> those antlions bugged me to no end
19:26:56 <nckomodo> but I've played ep1 and ep2
19:27:16 <frosch123> jpm: once a year there is a topic in one of the general forums, where you can request nick changes
19:27:26 <nckomodo> I skipped ahead to nova prospekt and had the same experience
19:27:27 <frosch123> but this year there was already one
19:27:40 <Bjarni> <murray> better than killing irl <--- around 20% of all murders are inspired from TV (where the killer copies something from TV)
19:27:51 <Bjarni> nobody knows if the same is true for computer games
19:27:56 <jpm> frosch123: okey, I have time...
19:28:09 <nckomodo> around 20% of all murders are because people are complete fucking morons/sociopaths
19:28:27 <nckomodo> whose parents did a very bad job at raising them
19:28:38 <murray> did you know, about 76% of all statistics is grabbed from thin air
19:28:49 <nckomodo> otherwise it would be much higher
19:29:03 <Bjarni> <murray> did you know, about 76% of all statistics is grabbed from thin air <-- I don't trust that number
19:29:03 <peter1138> About 92.5% of statistics are made up.
19:29:17 <nckomodo> more or less throwing the babby out with the bathwater
19:29:18 <peter1138> 20% is pretty well made up...
19:29:24 <frosch123> 80% of all germans dislike forest dieback
19:29:31 <Wolf01> bah, you always finish to talk about real life...
19:29:46 <nckomodo> 40% of me is actually john travolta
19:29:56 <Bjarni> I can't remember the precise number but it was pretty close to 1 out of 5, hence around 20%
19:30:13 <Bjarni> somehow I read this as you aren't taking me seriously
19:30:18 <nckomodo> """"""""""""""""""""""""""""""' lots of quotes
19:31:18 <glx> almost all statistics miss 1%
19:31:18 <Bjarni> I will kick the next person who claims that I can't be trusted on my statements
19:31:41 <nckomodo> I'm going to go kick people in the face in SMOD
19:31:42 <frosch123> [21:32] <glx> almost all statistics miss 1% <- that is me :)
19:31:48 <nckomodo> That amuses me to no end
19:32:04 <Bjarni> use 7z compression instead
19:33:00 <nckomodo> whats also amusing is when I realized turning our old CRT TV on and off would cause a cord laying infront of the screen to swing wildly back and forth
19:33:15 <nckomodo> this amused me for 5 minutes
19:33:43 <Bjarni> did you turn it on and off by pulling the cord in and out of the outlet?
19:33:50 <Eddi|zuHause> hm... i have some old vc4 images, but can't figure out how to mount them in linux...
19:34:14 <nckomodo> Bjarni nah, I used the remote
19:34:46 <Bjarni> then how did you affect the cord?
19:35:09 <Bjarni> you can't tell me that the remote pushed it away in order to reach the TV with it's beam
19:35:37 <ben_goodger> Bjarni: a sufficiently powerful magnetic field will exert a sizeable force on a wire with a current flowing through it
19:35:42 <nckomodo> turning the TV on and off caused surges of static electricity and
19:35:46 <Eddi|zuHause> <murray> i AM an evil skull! <- remember the talking skull in monkey island 3?
19:36:13 <murray> fear my wrath! shiver in fear!
19:36:30 <Bjarni> oh wait, that was yesterday
19:36:33 <nckomodo> well, I dont think it was the surges of static electricity
19:36:36 <murray> yeah that was yesterday
19:36:37 <Eddi|zuHause> i should stop playing these games in german...
19:37:01 <nckomodo> but I think it was what had gathered on the TVchanging polarity
19:37:06 <nckomodo> or whatever the darned word is
19:37:07 <Bjarni> <Eddi|zuHause> i should stop playing these games in german... <-- you should stop using German, but that's another story :P
19:37:18 <nckomodo> because you could also wipe it off the screen
19:37:21 <nckomodo> and it'd be all fuzzy
19:37:39 <Bjarni> you statically charged your screen
19:37:52 <nckomodo> nah, it collects naturally
19:37:57 <nckomodo> or, as naturally as it can
19:38:14 <Bjarni> I don't trust such fields to be healthy
19:38:34 <nckomodo> I bathe in electro magnetic fields daily
19:38:36 <ben_goodger> Bjarni: MRIs are perfectly safe, so the magnetic field produced by a CRT screen is perfectly healthy
19:38:52 <ben_goodger> the trouble is the EM radiation they produce
19:39:06 <nckomodo> I think I had hypersensitivy to EMfs when I was a kid
19:39:23 <nckomodo> or I may have just been highly paranoid
19:39:40 <nckomodo> but I would always get creeped out near the stairs
19:39:50 <nckomodo> and occasionally run up them
19:40:14 <nckomodo> but anyway, this is distracting me, I've got
19:40:18 <Bjarni> <nckomodo> I think I had hypersensitivy to EMfs when I was a kid <-- if this is true, then I guess it could result in paranoia
19:40:31 <nckomodo> well, things to kill
19:40:52 <nckomodo> and rebels near the trainstation
19:41:00 <nckomodo> with a boot to the face
19:41:09 <nckomodo> ragdoll physics are always entertaining
19:41:21 <ben_goodger> only if they clip properly
19:41:23 <nckomodo> now I cant for the life of me find my steam folder
19:41:40 <Bjarni> that's because you need to heat it up first to get steam
19:41:52 <Bjarni> what is your core temperature?
19:42:00 <Eddi|zuHause> Bjarni: but german is the most genious language on the planet
19:42:01 <nckomodo> I guess I should fetch a blowtorch then
19:42:19 <Eddi|zuHause> it's definitely far superior to that pesky english
19:42:23 <ben_goodger> Eddi|zuHause: it's "ingenious" :)
19:42:29 <ben_goodger> "genius" is separate
19:42:30 <Bjarni> the flames on a driving steam locomotive are 1200°C
19:42:46 <Bjarni> see if you can get your core to that temperature and you can produce steam too
19:42:54 <nckomodo> I'm so scatter brained
19:43:12 <nckomodo> I had to scan my relatively small start menu twice to find the Speedfan subfolder
19:43:25 <nckomodo> also core temp is 30c
19:43:34 <Bjarni> that's why you lack steam
19:43:41 <ben_goodger> I'm pretty sure that you can produce steam from your body at any temperature above 273.15 kelvin at standard pressure
19:43:47 <nckomodo> I'm not sure which "Core" is my cpu
19:44:06 <ben_goodger> (guess the deliberate mistake in that sentence)
19:44:09 <Bjarni> unplug the CPU and see which one remains on the screen :p
19:44:30 <nckomodo> I can melt my fingers to it in the process
19:44:50 <peter1138> My core temps range from 37 to 44°C, obviously...
19:45:19 <ben_goodger> good god, this man needs medical attention
19:46:08 <Bjarni> I will go at once to his place
19:46:20 <Bjarni> at foot this will take say 1-2 months
19:46:44 <nckomodo> here, take this maglev
19:47:28 <nckomodo> oh hey, stubbs the zombie is :5bux: on steam
19:47:36 <Prof_Frink> Bjarni: Come on my maglev!
19:47:48 <Prof_Frink> 374 tiles without a bend
19:48:05 <Bjarni> bended maglev tracks are really bad
19:58:30 <Eddi|zuHause> hm... so far i have managed to start the installer, but it stays at 0.00%
19:59:35 <Prof_Frink> Bjarni: Did I say 374? It's now 403.
20:04:35 <ben_goodger> nckomodo: there is a really good reason for that, believe me
20:07:16 <ben_goodger> I bought it ages ago. it's neither funny nor fun
20:08:12 <nckomodo> I want to play GTA4 and screw around and do hilarious things involving swingsets
20:08:17 <nckomodo> but I cant seem to find the disc
20:08:40 <ben_goodger> I would just like GTA4 to be available on PC
20:08:48 <Sacro> ben_goodger: due soon iir
20:08:55 <ben_goodger> and I just _know_ it will be terribly ported
20:09:29 <nckomodo> I thought the other games were ported fine
20:10:01 <ben_goodger> if I recall correctly, the first release of SA for PC contained help references to the triangle button
20:10:07 <nckomodo> the only thing that bothered me for SA was you couldnt assign multiple controls to a single button based on context
20:12:37 <nckomodo> which was fine enough I guess
20:12:43 <nckomodo> considering I never did any missions
20:12:52 <nckomodo> and spent a considerable amount of time flying the hydra
20:13:15 <ben_goodger> ah yes, the hydra
20:13:42 <ben_goodger> the plane that explodes if you hit a lamp-post while taxiing at walking pace
20:13:53 <Eddi|zuHause> the virtual cd 4 format is totally weird, there's a .vc4 and a .000 file
20:14:13 <Eddi|zuHause> and i can mount the .000 file as iso9660, when i strip the first 47 bytes from it
20:14:38 <ben_goodger> do those 47 bytes mean anything in ASCII?
20:16:09 <Eddi|zuHause> 00000000 1f ab 99 00 00 09 3d 00 01 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 |......=.........|
20:16:10 <Eddi|zuHause> 00000010 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 08 00 00 00 00 00 |................|
20:16:12 <Eddi|zuHause> 00000020 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 2f 00 00 00 |.........../...|
20:17:20 <Eddi|zuHause> 0x1fab9900 appears to be something like the file size
20:18:02 <Eddi|zuHause> although the file actually is smaller than that
20:19:19 <Eddi|zuHause> please insert disk 2...
20:19:29 <Eddi|zuHause> that actually worked ;)
20:26:52 <Eddi|zuHause> gnah... it doesn't have 1680x1050 resolution...
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20:34:56 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: peter1138 * r14367 /branches/0.6/src/order_gui.cpp: [0.6] -Fix (r10046): Widgets added (in a documentation update?!) without updating other code caused disabled widget to be drawn in the middle of another player's order list. This fix only applies to 0.6 branch.
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21:20:45 <ln-> Bjarni: "Just over two months into the App Store's existence, another impressive mark of success answers that question. When speaking at this week's Mobilize conference, Steve Demeter, the developer behind Trism (iTunes link), revealed that his $5 game for iPhone and iPod touch has generated over $250,000 in revenue."
21:26:35 <Bjarni> but it shows how cheap stuff sold and distributed correctly can generate a healthy profit
21:27:13 <Bjarni> too bad I lack a plan that can generate $125k/month
21:27:36 <ln-> just some silly game could do
21:30:14 *** Sacro_ is now known as Sacro
21:30:43 <kaplon> whre i find any ottd servers
21:33:40 <Bjarni> click multiplayer in main menu, change connection dropdown to internet and then hit the "find server" button
21:33:57 <Bjarni> and you will have enough servers to choose from
21:48:22 <TrueBrain> complete bore-dome overcomes
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22:22:44 <ln-> Bjarni: does it make sense to visit Cøpenhagen during the so-called winter?
22:27:17 <Bjarni> does it make sense to visit Copenhagen at all? :)
22:27:39 <Bjarni> the real question is what do you intend to do there?
22:28:48 <Bjarni> I never thought of Copenhagen as a place to be a tourist
22:28:56 <Bjarni> it's full of tourists though
22:30:12 <ln-> the direct Turku-Copenhagen flights still exist.
22:30:13 <Bjarni> I find it hard to answer that question as the idea of being a tourist in a city is far from my way of thinking
22:32:00 <Bjarni> whenever I go to Copenhagen it's usually with a single goal, like a specific shop or visiting relatives/friends
22:32:42 <Bjarni> what is there to do for tourists in a city?
22:33:49 <ln-> get drunk, take the wrong bus to suburbs, and get robbed?
22:34:06 <Bjarni> you can do that all year round here
22:34:10 <ln-> ... which is not MY idea of what to do in a city.
22:35:01 <Bjarni> A guy I know met a tourist a few years ago
22:35:33 <Bjarni> turned out that he was camping somewhere and he met somebody who invited him to Copenhagen
22:35:40 <Bjarni> for drinking or whatever... nightlife
22:35:54 <Bjarni> and now the next day he really wondered where his tent was
22:36:06 <Bjarni> since he forgot the name of the station/town
22:36:24 <Bjarni> so he was at a station and looked really lost
22:36:53 <Bjarni> eventually he found it (with help)
22:39:54 <Bjarni> ln-: what is YOUR idea of being a city tourist?
22:41:58 <ln-> sightseeing, IMAX, museums of technology, italian ice cream, beach
22:43:13 <Bjarni> maybe beach isn't the right thing to do during the winter
22:43:28 <Bjarni> at least not if your goal is to get into the water and/or look at girls in bikinis ;)
22:43:59 <ln-> in better place girls without bikinis
22:44:46 * teggigi orders a one-way ticket to barcelona
22:45:20 <Bjarni> we had this case about a guy with a garden next to the beach and he wanted to set up signs to ban nudity on the beach
22:45:46 <Bjarni> then some nudist association complained and the case ended up in court
22:46:32 <Bjarni> the issue was not nude people by itself but it turned out that some people went to that beach to have sex
22:46:42 <Bjarni> and he didn't want that right next to his garden
22:47:05 <ln-> teggigi: they do have the panties though.
22:47:18 <Bjarni> not at the beach I just talked about
22:47:35 <Bjarni> well... at least not according to the news
22:47:39 <teggigi> well in norway we can go to the beach like ten times a year
22:47:40 <Bjarni> I have never actually been there
22:47:54 <ln-> Bjarni: no, but nudists are men and 50+ women.
22:48:30 <Bjarni> I always avoid places like that
22:52:42 <Bjarni> I have no plans going anywhere near that one though :/
22:53:22 <Bjarni> plans are worthless without cash to fund them
22:53:34 <ln-> that's like the biggest museum of technology in at least Europe.
22:53:49 <ln-> entrance is cheaper than to your tekniskmuseum.
22:57:27 <ben_goodger> ln-: you've never visited a japanese website, yes?
22:58:16 <Bjarni> I have visited plenty of Japanese websites, but nothing like you think about right now
22:58:58 <ln-> Bjarni: but like are you saying you can't afford to visit your neighbor country once in a lifetime because of no cash?
22:59:29 <Bjarni> I plan on going to Germany
22:59:58 <Bjarni> like in maybe 2-5 years
23:01:48 <Bjarni> I want to finish uni so I can make some money
23:02:17 <ln-> you can make some money before finishing it, like i've been doing for many years now.
23:02:41 <Bjarni> with my detailed plan for finishing uni it's not possible
23:03:10 <Bjarni> I will have to delay finishing by 6 months if I work at the same time
23:03:45 <ln-> and then you'll have some work experience in your CV.
23:03:54 <Bjarni> which is too expensive as it means 6 months less pay from a full time job
23:04:53 <Bjarni> <ln-> and then you'll have some work experience in your CV. <-- I have plenty to write already
23:05:33 <Bjarni> in addition to a rather fine education
23:05:39 <Bjarni> I don't think I will have a problem there
23:06:26 <ln-> did you drive the train for work?
23:07:18 <Bjarni> <ln-> did you drive the train for work? <-- no, but the needed education and tests are equally hard
23:09:25 <ln-> is train driving related to the full time job you are likely to be applying for?
23:10:01 <Bjarni> not really but odds are that it's at least as relevant as any job I can get now
23:10:30 <Bjarni> besides driving includes tasks at the repairshop, which could be relevant
23:11:24 <Bjarni> besides when writing a CV, you should include everything because the alternative is to do nothing
23:13:07 <ln-> imho, if you are applying for a real job, possibly with a university degree in your pocket, you can very well leave out all the irrelevant summer jobs from 10 years back.
23:14:01 <Bjarni> ln-: that depends on what you define as "irrelevant summer jobs"
23:14:53 <Bjarni> because it's an indication of what the person in question is like
23:15:52 <Bjarni> being a clerk in a supermarked is likely irrelevant
23:16:16 <ln-> Bjarni: irrelevant as in have nothing to do with the job you are applying for, apart from both being called "job".
23:17:14 <Bjarni> I disagree. With the high number of people who show up late for work and so on, it's a good indication that you can have other jobs
23:18:47 <ln-> yes, so one can list the *relevant* job(s).
23:19:00 <ln-> except, oh, if one doen't have any relevant work experience.
23:19:27 <Bjarni> that's not an uncommon problem these days
23:21:10 <ln-> solution: one should get a job to get some relevant work experience during studies.
23:27:15 <Eddi|zuHause> if i apply for a job in the IT segment, it would be perfectly suitible that i mention that i programmed an SPS for a chemical facility for half a year
23:30:57 <Bjarni> I would be more concerned with which chemical factory
23:31:06 <Bjarni> as I would stay far away from it :p
23:32:20 <Eddi|zuHause> they produce salt (CaCl_2) to sell it during the winter
23:34:49 <Eddi|zuHause> CaCO_3 + 2 HCl -> CaCl_2 + H_2O + CO_2
23:35:42 <Bjarni> we are killing the soil around the roads with salt
23:36:08 <Eddi|zuHause> nothing new there...
23:36:10 <Bjarni> and it's an open question how much it actually helps
23:36:25 <Bjarni> Sweden and Norway use gravel instead
23:36:47 <Eddi|zuHause> spraying salt to make snow melt? open question? i don't think so
23:37:34 <Bjarni> I meant for road safety
23:37:45 <ln-> i altered a C++ socket library almost 10 years ago, to make it compilable with newer GCC, and made it available for download.
23:38:09 <ln-> it was downloaded from addresses such as gw.xxxxxx.boeing.com.
23:42:03 <TrueBrain> a very closed question ;)
23:44:25 <Bjarni> what I meant by open question regarding road safety is that if you add salt, you get this wet slippery stuff on the roads. Just having snow is slippery too, but in a different way
23:45:21 <TrueBrain> and a much more dangerous way ;)
23:45:31 <Eddi|zuHause> what's interesting there is that people pass the crossing even though the light is on and the bar is going down
23:46:11 <Bjarni> the crossing activates 20 sec before the train arrives and still cars tries to get across until the last moment
23:46:34 <Bjarni> there is an average of 90 minutes between a train hits something in USA
23:47:14 <Bjarni> I think half of the collisions or something like that is fatal
23:47:19 <Bjarni> I read about this a while ago
23:47:40 <TrueBrain> when your car gets hit by a train here, the train on the other track is so kind to bring back your car to the point you started
23:47:44 <TrueBrain> and that, you survive
23:48:01 <TrueBrain> (happened for real a month ago here .. 400m one way with 1 train, 200m back the other way the an other train)
23:50:44 <Eddi|zuHause> so, where does it say that the malfunction was caused by salt?
23:51:20 <Bjarni> Eddi|zuHause: I don't think it says that in that link, but I know salt can cause this
23:51:41 <Eddi|zuHause> (and even if it was, the malfunction was most likely caused by neglecting maintenance work on the salt-affected wires)
23:51:45 <ln-> the video gets quite boring after 30 seconds.
23:52:29 <Bjarni> as salt can alter the electrical resistance between the rails and create ghost wheels
23:53:15 <Bjarni> Europe is altering the crossings to count axles before and after the crossings. This will clearly avoid this issue
23:53:30 <Bjarni> even though I don't think our setup is as likely to suffer from this
23:54:20 <Bjarni> <Eddi|zuHause> (and even if it was, the malfunction was most likely caused by neglecting maintenance work on the salt-affected wires) <-- no matter how well you maintain your crossing, you can't do anything about salt between the rails in the crossing
23:56:06 <ln-> you're saying salt is a conductor, with water i suppose?
23:56:54 <ln-> yet it would need 1420 millimeters of salty water between the rails?
23:56:57 <Bjarni> if there aren't any water after you add salt, then there is no point in adding salt
23:57:48 <ln-> whatever, 1524 is the real people's choice.
23:58:39 <Bjarni> 2140 mm was quite interesting
23:59:40 <Bjarni> 1524 and 1520 sounds like they are compatible
continue to next day ⏵
