IRC logs for #openttd on OFTC at 2008-09-17
⏴ go to previous day
00:03:06 <Eddi|zuHause> "background dancers: prefer anonymity" :p
00:09:01 <Eddi|zuHause> "anyone else realize that the thing is 17 miles around. And the particles will be going around 11,000 times per second. Thats 187,000 miles per second. 187 is police code for murder. We're doomed!" :p
00:12:09 <TrueBrain> and I am compiling libstdc++ for OS X (supporting 10.5 Intel)
00:15:10 <TrueBrain> any OSX user here? Even Intel 10.5 is fine ...
00:17:32 <SmatZ> [02:09:05] <Eddi|zuHause> <== yeah, one can find magical numbers everywhere :)
00:33:10 *** Eddi|zuHause has joined #openttd
00:40:08 <nicfer> would be useful implementing empty slopes?
00:49:39 <Eddi|zuHause> you make no sense.
00:50:18 <penfold> erk, one of my trains made a 34 trillion loss.
00:51:25 <penfold> Bit of corruption there I think, since my bank balance wasn't affected :P
00:51:37 <Eddi|zuHause> i remember the times when money would overflow at 2^32 ;)
00:54:49 <Eddi|zuHause> well, it was not such a big deal, as building a tunnel overflowed, too ;)
00:54:51 <TrueBrain> penfold: create a bug-report (with savegame)
01:04:01 <TrueBrain> I wonder if anyone has a 10.5 Intel on 64bit ... (the OS itself)
01:58:17 *** [alt]buster has joined #openttd
01:58:19 *** [alt]buster is now known as [com]buster
02:07:45 *** roboboy has joined #openttd
02:08:11 <Belugas> [20:08] <Eddi|zuHause> "anyone else realize that the thing is 17 miles around. And the particles will be going around 11,000 times per second. Thats 187,000 miles per second. 187 is police code for murder. We're doomed!" :p <--- first time i see yu emotive
02:09:13 <Belugas> nicfer, you have so strange ideas :)
02:09:23 <Belugas> keep on getting them out!
02:09:41 <Belugas> who knows, maybe ne day, a brilliant one might comes up ;)
02:10:00 <roboboy> fixing a problem with mibbit
02:10:01 *** roboboy has joined #openttd
02:10:05 <roboboy> fixing a problem with mibbit
02:10:06 *** roboboy has joined #openttd
02:13:49 <Belugas> gaaa!!! you contaminated me!!
02:21:55 <nicfer> a void slope would look similar to the sloping system in locomotion/RCT but primitive-ish
02:23:23 <Belugas> hooo... again... LOCOMOTION ...
02:25:31 <nicfer> well, it wouldn't be 100% identical
02:26:01 <nicfer> I said that it would kinda of remember to the locomotion system
02:27:42 <Belugas> imagine, just for sake of argument, that i have no idea whatsoever about loco system ;)
02:28:19 *** [Nemesis] has joined #openttd
02:30:08 <nicfer> it would mean that you'll be able to create a slope modification without tracks, roads, etc.
02:31:25 * roboboy admits there are things nice about locomotion
02:33:09 <Belugas> so if you like them, play Locomotion
02:33:16 <Belugas> so if you like OpenTTD, play OpenTTD
02:33:37 <Belugas> so if you like SimCity, play SimCity
02:34:10 <Belugas> but why... just WHY !! should OpenTTD be a conglomerat of everything that is available outthere???
02:34:17 <Belugas> just because we have the sources??
02:34:18 *** daspork has joined #openttd
02:34:21 <nicfer> my goal was, if you build railway over a slope, it becomes a foundation (or fundation)
02:34:38 <nicfer> suppose I want only the foundation
02:36:41 <roboboy> that could then be used to create false cliffs
02:40:11 <Belugas> a hint: i'd rather see REAL cliffs (no matter how hard they are to create) then look-alike ;)
02:40:22 <Belugas> in the mean time, /me goes to sleep
03:07:02 *** elmex_ is now known as elmex
04:42:06 *** roboboy has joined #openttd
05:05:56 *** HaloMaster has joined #openttd
05:06:22 <HaloMaster> oh wow. OpenTTD got on Side A of the PCPowerPlay Mag in Aus.
05:14:19 <lilman424> what's the difference between tractive effort and HP?
05:43:01 <Pikkaa> power is force * velocity...
05:44:55 <Pikkaa> so, broadly speaking, for a given amount of power you can trade off between force (TE) and velocity (speed)
05:45:31 *** Pikkaa is now known as Pikka
05:56:17 <lilman424> so how does it make sense that two vehicles with the same speed.
05:56:35 <lilman424> one has a higher power, but a lower TE
06:08:06 <Pikka> TE is also a function of weight
06:08:20 <Pikka> a heavier vehicle will have higher TE
06:33:44 *** Yeggstry has joined #openttd
06:43:37 *** roboboy has joined #openttd
06:44:56 <roboboy> fixing a problem with mibbit
06:44:56 *** roboboy has joined #openttd
06:45:07 <roboboy> fixing a problem with mibbit
06:45:07 *** roboboy has joined #openttd
06:45:12 <roboboy> fixing a problem with mibbit
06:45:12 *** roboboy has joined #openttd
06:55:11 <planetmaker> TrueBrain: you OSX-intel binary works on OS-X 10.4 (Tiger). Great :)
06:57:52 <peter1138> It'll turn out that zlib prevented it from working all along ;)
07:02:12 <ccfreak2k> It was zlib all along!
07:02:15 <ccfreak2k> (dun dun duuuuuuuun)
07:02:30 *** CommanderZ has joined #openttd
07:04:18 *** Yeggstry is now known as Yeggs-work
07:15:36 *** Nite_Owl has joined #openttd
07:18:04 <planetmaker> [08:57] <peter1138> It'll turn out that zlib prevented it from working all along ;) <--- yes. But it works as much as TB announced he would like it to see working :)
07:19:00 <planetmaker> sorry, still not entirely awake :S
07:20:24 <roboboy> where can I find the thread about 0.6.2
07:29:47 <Rubidium> roboboy: in the search maybe?
07:30:43 *** Pikka is now known as Pikka|afl
07:30:45 *** Pikka|afl is now known as Pikka|afk
07:30:53 <Rubidium> though searching using google with a proper search query gives you a quicker result
07:51:32 <Ammler> temp/forAmmler can be removed, thanks :-)
07:59:25 <Eddi|zuHause> why should we click on random links from strangers?
07:59:51 <HaloMaster> it is actually funny
08:00:02 *** Wezz6400 has joined #openttd
08:01:37 <HaloMaster> thats a tinyurl preview of it
08:04:33 <HaloMaster> peter1138: of what?
08:04:58 <Rubidium> HaloMaster: of individually copied bytes
08:06:32 <Ammler> I have a Mercurial confusion, how do I determine, which revision is taken for a certain custom build as i see only the first 8 chars?
08:07:16 <Ammler> peter1138: from the compile farm or from the server I like to join...
08:07:54 <Ammler> do I need to "tip" all revisions, until I find the right one?
08:08:06 <peter1138> You take the revision that matches...
08:10:55 *** Singaporekid has joined #openttd
08:11:40 <Ammler> hg view does help to browse through the mercurial commits, so I will find the matching revisioin better...
08:11:57 <Ammler> but it seems not to help for searching...
08:12:15 <peter1138> I don't really know what the *real* question is.
08:13:13 <Ammler> if I hg pull/up the cargo dest branch, I haven't the same revision as the coop test server.
08:13:49 <Ammler> the rev I see from the server is hc23c4457, how can I up to there noe?
08:16:12 <Rubidium> but that's the lame way
08:16:19 <peter1138> hg update (revision) should work.
08:17:07 *** ben_goodger__ has joined #openttd
08:17:20 <blathijs> Ammler: The first part of a hg hash is also sufficient as a revision, you can just use it in place of a full hash
08:17:41 <blathijs> Ammler: But you should remove the first "h", since it is not part of the hash (and hg doesn't understand it)
08:18:23 <blathijs> so you can probably do "hg update c23c4457" and it should work (not sure, never used hg)
08:19:23 *** [com]buster has joined #openttd
08:21:07 <Ammler> doesn't, that's why I ask.
08:21:45 <Ammler> well, I try again, maybe I did something wrong...
08:23:20 <peter1138> $ hg update c23c4457
08:23:20 <peter1138> 99 files updated, 0 files merged, 3 files removed, 0 files unresolved
08:23:49 <peter1138> changeset: 19901:2d7ff353056f
08:24:25 <peter1138> There's your problem
08:24:33 <peter1138> The version detection doesn't work.
08:24:57 *** Rexxars has joined #openttd
08:25:44 <Eddi|zuHause> that was reported previously, it always takes the tip, not the working copy
08:25:45 <peter1138> changeset: 19837:c23c445783d6
08:26:54 <peter1138> Eddi|zuHause, I fail to see a bug report on flyspray.
08:27:12 <Eddi|zuHause> well, it was not my report...
08:28:45 <Eddi|zuHause> but i'm sure there was a lengthy discussion in here
08:29:33 <Ammler> Eddi|zuHause: from Spcomb?
08:29:54 <Eddi|zuHause> i have no idea who it was
08:30:14 <Ammler> well, I know, he tried to compile the same rev as our server
08:30:26 <Ammler> now, I see his problem :-)
08:31:07 <peter1138> const char _openttd_revision[] = "hc23c4457-Mercurial Distributed SCM basic commands (use hg help for the full list or option -v for details): add add the specified files on the next commit annotate show changeset information per file line clone make a copy of an existing repository commit commit the specified files or all outstanding changes diff diff repository (or selected files) export dump the header and diffs for o
08:32:38 <SpComb> I suspect find-version.sh needs a bit of work :)
08:32:41 <peter1138> My version of hg does not support hg branch...
08:33:39 <peter1138> (And Debian stable is not that uncommon)
08:35:34 <SpComb> peter1138: by debian stable hg supports branch
08:35:51 <SpComb> it doesn't show up in `hg help`, but it's still there
08:39:50 <Eddi|zuHause> how the hell can i have conflicts in galician.txt?
08:41:52 <Eddi|zuHause> hg status does not show conflicts :(
08:44:24 *** Frostregen has joined #openttd
08:50:44 *** stillunknown has joined #openttd
08:57:28 *** Vikthor has joined #openttd
08:57:52 <peter1138> SpComb: it does not for me.
09:03:42 *** Brianetta has joined #openttd
09:18:52 *** Pikka|afk is now known as Pikka
09:30:00 *** Pikkaa is now known as Pikka
09:30:03 *** Pikka is now known as Pikkaaaaa
09:30:04 *** Pikkaaaaa is now known as Pikka
09:49:20 <Rich> Hello all, this is my first time on IRC so apologies if I do something wrong!
09:50:25 <Rich> As Zephyris from the tt forums I am looking for someone to put together a list of advantages/disadvantages for the various OpenGFX licenses...
09:50:58 *** ChanServ sets mode: +v tokai
09:52:03 <Brianetta> Rich: Be more specific.
09:52:19 <Brianetta> What are the (potential) OpenGFX licenses?
09:52:48 <Brianetta> Also, be aware that you're asking for legal advice.
09:52:52 <Rich> So the ones being considered are GPL, CC by SA and CC NC by SA
09:53:07 <Brianetta> Well, I can say for a start that NC is out
09:53:34 <Rich> I would be looking for info on the potential co-distribution of different licenses
09:53:34 <Brianetta> Non-commercial means you can't distribute it with GPL software, which is licensed for all purposes, including ocmmercial ones
09:54:09 <Brianetta> The Creative Commons site has a license chooser
09:54:26 <Brianetta> btw, your work is really good
09:55:16 <Rich> It comes down to many of the artists are unconfortable with GPL as it is not designed as an artwork license
09:55:48 <Rich> Whilst they would be happy with it may would prefer a CC license
09:55:54 <Brianetta> although I get around this myself by making the GIMP layers for works I release available, as "source"
09:56:14 <Brianetta> but my graphics tend to be photo composites
09:56:32 <Rich> Thats true, but the sheer quantity of source files I have makes that unfesable
09:56:49 <Brianetta> You don't need to publish your source directly
09:57:02 <Brianetta> the GPL allows you to make an offer, in writing, to provide the source on demand
09:57:33 <Brianetta> of course, and downstream distributors would need to make your source available themselves
09:57:42 <Brianetta> They'd be obliged to obtain the source from you before they could comply
09:58:30 <Brianetta> newgrfs are a fuzzy one
09:58:37 <Brianetta> the source is indistinct
09:58:48 <Brianetta> it could be that it's its own source archive
09:59:10 <Brianetta> but some point out that any formatting and commenting in the NFO is lost after the codec encodes it
09:59:11 <Rich> The GRF source would be simple for OpenGFX - the only info in the nfo is the offsets
09:59:27 <Rich> so imo that would not be an issue
09:59:54 <Brianetta> That might be helpful
10:00:17 <Ammler> why don't Zephyris and Foobar not just decide that alone and continue to work on the GRF itself.
10:00:43 <Ammler> If that stupid discussion wouldn't be, the Replacment would be almost finished now.
10:00:50 <Brianetta> Ammler: Rich *is* Zephyris
10:00:55 <peter1138> Rich, why don't you /nick Zephyris :)
10:01:20 <Rich> lol, do I just type "/nick Zephyris"?
10:01:37 *** Rich is now known as Zephyris
10:01:45 <Zephyris> That should save some confusion
10:02:01 <Brianetta> Zephyris: That link I posted; search for "Creative C" on the page. It's near the end.
10:02:03 <peter1138> Zephyris, welcome :)
10:02:04 * TrueBrain needs a Mac OS X 10.5 Intel user ..
10:02:15 <Brianetta> It describes two CC licenses that are GPL compatible, according to GNU
10:02:23 <HaloMaster> TrueBrain: Virtual Machine
10:02:32 <Brianetta> also a bunch of other licenses, just to bewilder
10:02:36 <peter1138> HaloMaster, he'll have tried that :p
10:02:37 <TrueBrain> HaloMaster: tnx for your contribution, but it is not helping a bit
10:02:53 <Rubidium> HaloMaster: if that would've worked we wouldn't have needed to ask for it...
10:03:16 <TrueBrain> like walking in a supermarket and asking where the meat is, and someone tells bij: at the Mac Donals sir
10:03:24 <TrueBrain> yes, that is what I asked ...
10:03:53 * HaloMaster thumbs through his old harddrives.
10:04:26 <Rubidium> TrueBrain, more like: "I need meat" with a "use tofu" as reply
10:04:29 <TrueBrain> clearly you don't understand a big part of this Mac OS X word ..
10:04:32 <HaloMaster> i dont think i have a mac install anywhere
10:04:38 <TrueBrain> Rubidium: hehe, better yes ;)
10:05:12 * TrueBrain puts a new person on its ignore list ...
10:06:19 <Zephyris> The consistent statement about Creative Commons is "Please don't use it for software or documentation, since it is incompatible with the GNU GPL and with the GNU FDL." As the GRF would just be game content does this matter? For example a GPL installer could offer you the option of using the new graphics, and download them if the used chooses yes.
10:07:04 <Brianetta> Zephyris: It matters which CC license. There isn't just one Creative Commons.
10:07:39 <Zephyris> Sorry, they say that for both CC-BY and CC-BY-SA
10:08:00 <dih> Zephyris: you plan on just making the grf's available to OpenTTD?
10:08:05 <Brianetta> Ah, I see where you mean. According to the FSF, software should be GPL, documentation should be FDL.
10:08:22 <Brianetta> Where the GPL and FDL aren't appropriate, CC might be.
10:08:24 <peter1138> It's not documentation ;)
10:08:41 <Brianetta> It could be considered art
10:08:44 <peter1138> What is distributable in Debian? ;)
10:08:50 <Brianetta> The Free Art License is compatible
10:09:43 <TrueBrain> peter1138: 12 more to go ;)
10:09:52 <Eddi|zuHause> Zephyris: the main trouble will be a CC-license that has "NC" in it, then a hypothetical package "openttd-gfx" could not be included in any major linux distribution
10:10:26 *** Prof_Frink has joined #openttd
10:10:34 <Brianetta> "How can I tell if a license is a free software license, by Debian's standards?"
10:10:48 * Forked requests a poem about peter and his gigabytes ..
10:11:43 <Ammler> if OpenTTD has only the pcx and nfo like they have for openttd?.grf, the GRFs can't really be "missused" for something else like T-Shirts or what ever...
10:12:14 <Ammler> so GPL should be ok...
10:12:54 <Zephyris> The problem with GPL is that whilst it works it is not directly an artistic/content license leaving a lot of ambiguities
10:12:58 <Ammler> if someone like to make something "not-grfish", he has still to ask you.
10:13:09 <Eddi|zuHause> Forked: but please make sure it's not vogonic poetry
10:13:44 <Zephyris> I'm afraid I have to go out now, how do I show myself as away?
10:13:49 <Brianetta> GPL isn't good for non-software. Debian's arguments to the contrary notwithstanding.
10:13:59 <Brianetta> Zephyris: Just type /away reason
10:14:02 <Brianetta> where reason is a reason
10:14:09 <Eddi|zuHause> Zephyris: my favourite would be CC-BY-SA, but i don't really have a say in this matter :)
10:15:02 <Brianetta> He's not here right now (:
10:18:33 <Nite_Owl> There once was a guy named Peter / who kept an eye on his gigabyte meter. / When it was done / He thought he'd have fun / so he started his gigabyte reader.
10:19:00 <Nite_Owl> Not very good but time was short
10:20:40 <Ammler> they can make 2 differnet licenses, the pcx/nfo GPL and the rest what they like...
10:23:24 *** penfold has joined #openttd
10:25:37 <Nite_Owl> I could not let Forked's challenge just slip on by
10:31:13 <Brianetta> "The job of a copyright license is to grant permissions to do things that would otherwise be forbidden under copyright law." - Debian Project
10:31:20 <Brianetta> Succinct and clear.
10:59:01 *** Progman has joined #openttd
11:01:07 <dih> what the fuck is dragon doing back in the forums?
11:01:33 <blathijs> You mean the 24 hours in a day post?
11:02:33 <planetmaker> hey, you guys don't not humor?
11:02:36 <dih> orudge: you have a way to soft heart
11:02:50 <dih> no pm, we don't not humor
11:03:16 <blathijs> I actually think that was a good post
11:03:35 <dih> it's not bad if you get what he is trying to say
11:03:56 <blathijs> Compliments and thanks are means very under-used usually, and he found a cool way to word them :-)
11:03:59 <dih> but i fear he will turn back to usual very quickly
11:04:05 <Nite_Owl> I attempt humor but do not always succeed
11:05:02 <Nite_Owl> Could have been an attempt to smooth things over which would not be terrible.
11:05:21 <blathijs> Didn't we have a command for that somewhere?
11:05:24 <dih> blathijs: or reading the forums :-P
11:05:40 <dih> thegrebs.com has nice logs also
11:05:47 <blathijs> Eddi|zuHause: thanks
11:06:02 <Nite_Owl> If I remember correctly he was a forum troll
11:06:18 <blathijs> Ah, I hardly ever read the forums, so can't see the post in context :-)
11:08:02 <dih> i just fear it will get worse very quickly
11:09:36 <Eddi|zuHause> /dev/sda4 423G 402G 0 100% <- wtf?
11:09:53 <Eddi|zuHause> where did my 20GB suddenly go?
11:09:55 <FauxFaux> ext3, reserved blocks.
11:10:00 <blathijs> Eddi|zuHause: There is a 5% reserved for root IIRC
11:11:08 <Eddi|zuHause> how do i turn that off?
11:11:38 <Eddi|zuHause> root has nothing to do with that HD
11:12:35 <ln-> Eddi|zuHause: tune2fs -m 0 /dev/sda4
11:12:59 <ln-> no need to even unmount before doing that.
11:13:35 <Eddi|zuHause> /dev/sda4 423G 399G 25G 95% <- much better ;)
11:14:29 <Eddi|zuHause> but why didn't that kick in on the other ext3 disk?
11:15:42 <dih> perhaps root already uses 5GB there :-P
11:17:56 * FauxFaux doesn't know, assumably you (didn't) ask for it.
11:18:28 <Eddi|zuHause> how can i show disk usage per user?
11:24:00 <dih> or if you have quota's enabled, another way
11:24:13 <SmatZ> /dev/hde1 196015808 194048116 1967692 99% /mnt/200gb
11:24:14 <SmatZ> /dev/hdg1 288451232 288031684 419548 100% /mnt/300gb
11:24:16 <SmatZ> /dev/hdc1 480719088 373650980 107068108 78% /mnt/500gb
11:24:20 <SmatZ> running out of space, again :-/
11:24:49 *** Dred_furst has joined #openttd
11:25:58 <ln-> 200gb and 300gb hds? are there such?
11:28:34 <Eddi|zuHause> why wouldn't there?
11:29:28 <ln-> because 250 and 320 are nicer round figures
11:30:35 <ln-> Gekz: what's 500GB then in GiB?
11:31:29 <Gekz> Disk /dev/sda: 500.1 GB, 500107862016 bytes
11:31:36 <Gekz> wow, 500GB sold as 500GiB
11:31:42 <TrueBrain> Any Mac OS X PPC around here? (10.3, 10.4, 10.5?)
11:32:07 <TrueBrain> planetmaker: still around?
11:32:31 <TrueBrain> (and confirm it has 3 binaries inside the binary?)
11:32:51 <Gekz> 3 binaries inside the archive*
11:32:52 <Ammler> multi universal build :-)
11:33:03 <Gekz> or are we using a Mac-ism
11:33:13 <TrueBrain> universal build always had 3 binaries
11:33:15 <planetmaker> that's the same link, but different, file, yes, TrueBrain ?
11:34:27 <ln-> tell TB i can confirm there are 3 binaries in it.
11:34:37 <ln-> OpenTTD.app/Contents/MacOS/openttd: Mach-O universal binary with 3 architectures
11:34:38 <planetmaker> still works. Still seems to miss zlib
11:34:59 <TrueBrain> 10.4 Intel done, 4 more to check ...
11:38:07 <planetmaker> [13:24] <SmatZ> running out of space, again :-/ <-- how much would "rm -rf ~/porn" free in that case? :P
11:38:54 <SmatZ> planetmaker: not much porn there...
11:39:29 <murray> lol, just the regular amount then
11:41:41 *** Zephyris has joined #openttd
11:42:26 <TrueBrain> 10.5 Intel works too .. 3 PPC targets remaining :)
11:42:49 <Nite_Owl> There is too much light coming in through the windows for me to be awake any longer - Good day all.
11:43:39 <peter1138> Just been given a pay rise.
11:45:25 <planetmaker> congratz, peter1138 :)
11:45:56 <planetmaker> for your merrits earned in the OpenTTD development, I assume? :P
11:52:13 *** Prof_Frink has joined #openttd
11:57:42 <peter1138> planetmaker, clearly ;)
11:58:19 <planetmaker> hehe. Like a drug dealer - distributing OpenTTD to your boss so he'll become adicted and beg your constantly for new features. I knew it!
11:58:50 <planetmaker> ... and not telling him that it's available for free download, but charging 100GBP for each new nightly :P
11:59:30 <peter1138> Don't give me ideas :D
12:00:21 * peter1138 ponders those Behringer MS40s
12:07:34 *** CommanderZ has left #openttd
12:08:23 <Zephyris> Thank you for the license advice you have given
12:10:03 <Zephyris> I am considering the licenses on the terms of; can the graphics be distributed freely, can the graphics be distributed in the oppenttd installer, can the graphics be included in linux distros
12:10:12 <Zephyris> And taking into account artist preference
12:11:12 <Zephyris> By these terms the license must be either GPL or CC-by-SA
12:11:49 <FauxFaux> The GPL is not a good choice for art, as someone may have mentioned.
12:11:55 <Zephyris> with the restriction that if the graphics are CC-by-SA then a GPL installer could not include them, but could, for example, download them as part of the installation process.
12:12:14 <Zephyris> FauxFaux: Yup, exactly, hence the unpopularity with the artists
12:12:19 <FauxFaux> Is cc-by-sa 3 not GPL compatiable?
12:12:25 <FauxFaux> Some of the cc3 lincenses are.
12:12:40 <Zephyris> According to wikipedia, no
12:13:03 <FauxFaux> I could've swoprn someone said...
12:13:04 <ln-> might i just say that if the graphics cannot be distributed with OTTD, then the there's not much advantage over the original TTD graphics.
12:13:57 <Zephyris> All proposed licenses allow the free distribution with openttd, just not necessarily as part of openttd - does that make sense?
12:15:24 <Zephyris> You could download both the OpenTTD game and the OpenGFX graphics from the OpenTTD website, but the different licenses would not necessarily allow the download of a single package (installer/zip file) which contains both
12:15:50 <Zephyris> Both would be free to distribute, but not as a single endity
12:16:14 <FauxFaux> Sounds like a hillariously shitty license to me.
12:17:02 <Zephyris> Welcome to the laws of licenses, its a hilariously shitty world
12:18:30 <FauxFaux> I'm positive someone said cc3 was okay.
12:20:05 <FauxFaux> Sigh, apparently not (using linux.com as a source, highly suspicious).
12:21:00 <Ammler> just to be sure, "hg up -r c23c4457" does update to that revision, just the revision detector of openttd doesn't work, so I just need to write it with configure?
12:23:46 <Eddi|zuHause> <Zephyris> with the restriction that if the graphics are CC-by-SA then a GPL installer could not include them, but could, for example, download them as part of the installation process. <- my interpretation of the GPL said that you can put two independent packages into the same medium, even if one was not GPL, which means a windows installer (as wide interpretation of "medium") could include the graphics, as long as they are in it side by
12:23:46 <Eddi|zuHause> side as equal packages, and you give a selection to not install the graphics. (as in 3 choices: 1. install openttd, 2. search for original gfx, 3. install "open" gfx)
12:23:48 <peter1138> Just "hg update c23c4457"
12:24:27 <peter1138> Change "hg tip" in findversion.sh to "hg parents"
12:24:55 <Eddi|zuHause> that'd be my favourite variant about a gfx-replacement
12:30:38 <Ammler> Zephyris: the license is not about distribution, I hope, it is mostly about reusing your sprites, isn't?
12:30:54 <peter1138> Of course it's about redistribution.
12:30:57 <Zephyris> Eddi|zuHause: I agree, although the devs opinion is what counts
12:31:23 <Eddi|zuHause> a license can ONLY be about distribution...
12:32:13 <Eddi|zuHause> uääärgs... jpg screenshots... my eyes hurt... :(
12:32:57 <Zephyris> I want all my work to be available for use and reuse and modification for OpenTTD/TTDPatch, and be available for distribution and redistribution with or as part of OpenTTD, with suitable protection to prevent exploitation
12:33:13 <Gekz> how could it be exploited.
12:33:18 <Ammler> maybe you got me wrong, the most important thing, imo, is that you can reuse OpenGFX as much as you like without asking the author.
12:34:15 <Ammler> and if there is only the pcx and the nfo, how can it missused?
12:34:25 <Eddi|zuHause> Zephyris: if you read the dfsg link above, the "protection" arguments are often what makes the licenses unsuitible to be included anywhere
12:35:15 <Zephyris> By protection I mean the graphics can be reused and modified without asking for permission, ie. as terms of the licence, but the product of such modifications must be released under the same license
12:35:37 <Eddi|zuHause> yeah, that'll be CC-BY-SA
12:35:38 <Zephyris> which is why the GPL and CC-by-SA are being considered
12:35:52 <Gekz> CC is not compatible with the GPL
12:36:09 <Gekz> Zephyris: GPL covers your terms
12:36:23 <Eddi|zuHause> GPL has the inherent problem of clearly defining what the "source" of a graphics file is
12:36:30 <Zephyris> But GPL is not an artistic license and has many large ambiguities with graphical work
12:36:32 *** Aylomen has joined #openttd
12:36:32 <Ammler> so if I would like to make a singe Engine GRF with a sprite from you; I am not allowed to use GPL if you have that restricted CC?
12:36:46 <Gekz> Zephyris: write your own license?
12:36:46 <Eddi|zuHause> Gekz: i'd suggest you read some the forum thread arguments
12:37:04 <Zephyris> Ammler: Yes, it would have to be CC
12:37:22 <Gekz> Ammler: therefore you cant use it with GPL
12:37:26 <Gekz> because CC is incompatible
12:37:36 <Eddi|zuHause> Gekz: writing an own license is the worst thing to do
12:37:39 <Zephyris> More specifically the product would have to be released under the CC-by-SA with credit to the original authors
12:39:28 *** Yeggstry has joined #openttd
12:39:51 <Ammler> on GPL, I don't need to credit you, is that the difference?
12:40:22 <Ammler> then it might be worth to use CC
12:40:56 <Gekz> using CC would make it cumbersome to be used with OpenTTD
12:42:21 <Ammler> openttd?.grf looks also like CC
12:42:34 <Gekz> you cant distribute CC with GPL
12:42:38 <Gekz> they're incompatible licences.
12:43:13 <Ammler> [14:39] <Ammler> on GPL, I don't need to credit you, is that the difference? <-- then, that isn't the only difference?
12:43:46 <dih> like i said Gekz: Public Domain ;-)
12:44:43 <Eddi|zuHause> Gekz: but you can distribute them ALONGSIDE each other. like putting them on the same medium (CD, Installer, FTP-Server)
12:45:03 <Eddi|zuHause> as long as it is clear that they are two separate packages
12:45:25 <Gekz> you can't include it as the default grf
12:45:54 <Eddi|zuHause> you shouldn't either. you should give the user the ability to use the original gfx as default
12:45:59 <Zephyris> This is the key point which has to be clarified
12:46:02 <Ammler> you don't have the data on same dir as the binary.
12:46:14 <dih> that is a point the devs have to clarify
12:46:15 <planetmaker> [14:39] <Ammler> on GPL, I don't need to credit you, is that the difference? <--- no. GPL requires attribution, if you want it.
12:46:38 <Zephyris> The only problem now is the issue of co-distribution
12:46:48 <Zephyris> Cant they be on the same website?
12:46:56 <Ammler> planetmaker: I am looking for a reason, why artists don't like GPL...
12:47:04 <Gekz> what about when OpenTTD is entirely free from the original TTD code
12:47:13 <Gekz> it just encumbers the process some more
12:47:28 <Zephyris> Can they be in the same zip?
12:48:12 <Zephyris> I would like to make it clear that the graphics will be released under the GPL if necessary, but there is a large preference among the artists that CC-by-SA is used instead
12:48:37 <Zephyris> I want to check that this is feasible dispite the incompatible nature of the GPL and CC-by-SA licenses
12:48:40 <Ammler> and can you say in short why?
12:48:44 <Eddi|zuHause> <Gekz> what about when OpenTTD is entirely free from the original TTD code <- that is a condition that is impossible to check, as no part of OpenTTD ever was a verbatim copy of TTD
12:49:12 <Zephyris> Ammler: Principly because of the ambiguities in the GPL when it is applied to graphics
12:50:23 <dih> Zephyris: i just cannot get why you give such a big damn
12:50:38 <dih> yes - you invested a lot of time and effort
12:50:49 <dih> but what is more important?
12:51:13 <dih> ask the Devs what they would need if they were gonna bundle their OpenTTD with OpenGFX
12:51:38 <Zephyris> The devs arent copyright experts
12:51:40 <dih> or you just created some nice alternative nobody will give a damn to use
12:51:44 <Zephyris> they need some informed advice
12:51:53 <Ammler> dih: he asks the devs of the OpenGFX :-)
12:52:01 <Zephyris> and i am trying to give them that by finding out what can be done
12:52:02 <dih> the devs are not copyright experts, no, but they have their own piece of mind
12:52:21 <Zephyris> when i asked the devs they said come back with some simple pros and cons
12:52:24 <dih> did it ever occure to you, that they might say that they would not want to support any CC ?
12:52:29 <Zephyris> which is what I am trying to work out here
12:52:40 <Zephyris> they will support CC so long as they can see simple pros and cons of it
12:52:51 <Zephyris> and if the cons are too severe then they wont supprot it
12:53:14 <Zephyris> they wont support CC-by-SA-NC because the cons with distribution would be too severe
12:54:16 <Zephyris> I hope that makes sense :) I am stuck in the middle at the moment!
12:56:23 <dih> why not make it public domain?
12:56:47 <Eddi|zuHause> that is not possible in some countries.
12:56:55 <Eddi|zuHause> meaning germany ;)
12:56:59 <Ammler> dih: why isn't OpenTTD not public domain?
12:57:00 <Zephyris> and is not acceptable to the other artists
12:57:46 <Eddi|zuHause> public domain is a step too far, imho
12:57:59 <dih> Eddi|zuHause: where is it not possible to make something publicly available and state one does not give a damn about shit?
12:58:19 <dih> apparently they cannot make it GPL
12:59:05 <Zephyris> germany, and we can make it GPL, and will if necessary, but would prefer not.
13:00:07 <Eddi|zuHause> dih: you can give out "unconditional licenses", but not "copyright" in germany
13:00:15 <Ammler> Zephyris: wouldn't you accept the pcx as source?
13:00:19 <Gekz> Eddi|zuHause: it uses the original game files
13:01:07 <Ammler> do you fear you need to distribute your whole workspace?
13:01:31 <Zephyris> Ammler: yes, it would be a gig of stuff
13:01:54 <Zephyris> I would accept pcx as source, but I am no lawyer and with an ambiguous license...
13:02:25 <Ammler> and if that would be defined somewhere?
13:03:14 <Ammler> well, in your case, the decoded grf would be enough :-)
13:03:32 <Zephyris> adding extra conditions to a license is always dodgy, but as I said if CC-by-SA is not acceptable to the devs then yes that will be the case
13:03:44 <Zephyris> a folder of sprites with offsets is all that would be needed
13:03:54 <Ammler> Zephyris: and CC-by-SA does define that?
13:04:29 <Zephyris> CC-by-SA has no requirements for a "source", it is an artistic license
13:04:55 <Zephyris> but it may as well come with the decoded grf too...
13:04:58 <Gekz> Zephyris: you could make it CC-by-SA
13:05:06 <Gekz> with a special exception for distribution with OpenTTD
13:05:14 <Gekz> as you _are_ the copyright owner and have the right to make exceptions
13:05:19 <Ammler> thanks, now I see it :-)
13:05:40 <dih> all authers have to agree Gekz
13:06:06 <Gekz> dih: then make a consensus.
13:06:16 <dih> Zephyris: what is the reseon to avoid GPL?
13:06:23 <Eddi|zuHause> Zephyris: but what i said in the thread still holds, for modification purposes, it would be better to split the huge PCX in smaller groups (one entity like the 8 vehicle views per file)
13:06:32 <Ammler> I always thought, GPL is too less restricted :-)
13:06:57 <hylje> cut the drama and use BSD like grown-ups do
13:07:01 <Eddi|zuHause> the NFO easily allows including multiple PCX files
13:07:33 <Gekz> when it comes down to it, I don't care about the license.
13:07:37 <Gekz> I care about the patents.
13:07:55 <Eddi|zuHause> then a user saying "i don't like the look of the A4" could just modify that one file, and not worry about conflicts with other completely unrelated objects
13:08:32 <Eddi|zuHause> but that is totally independent from the license
13:09:10 <Eddi|zuHause> also, it makes it easier to specify who is the author of each file
13:09:12 <Ammler> (maybe foobar already does something similar
13:09:50 <Zephyris> with either GPL or CC a user could modify a single vehicle and then only redistribute only the graphics for that vehicle - you can safely make a derivative work from only part of the original
13:10:26 <Eddi|zuHause> yes, i am speaking about usability, not about license
13:11:40 <Eddi|zuHause> say one person modified the A4, and another person modified the wooden bridge, separate files would make these changes trivial to merge
13:12:01 <Ammler> I hope also, there will still be the GRFs available as single parts so you could compine originals with the replacement...
13:13:03 <Eddi|zuHause> also, if the second person wants to redistribute just that single bridge, he needs not elaborately find out who to attribute for the original brige, as that could be meta-information for the individual file (or a directory structure)
13:13:40 <planetmaker> [15:05] <Gekz> with a special exception for distribution with OpenTTD <-- not the worst of ideas.
13:14:08 <ln-> planetmaker: what is "OpenTTD"?
13:14:34 <Zephyris> Eddi|zuHause: They would have to credit all original authors, the derivative work is from an original work of shared authorship.
13:15:10 <planetmaker> ln-: the game we all like :)
13:15:13 <Eddi|zuHause> Zephyris: yes, but it doesn't have to be, if you can specifically find out one author for the respective sprite
13:15:41 <ln-> planetmaker: yes, so anyone who distributes something called OpenTTD is allowed to distribute those graphics. fine.
13:15:48 <Zephyris> true, but for simplicity the whole thing will be credited to shared authorship
13:15:49 <Eddi|zuHause> say, you modified a bridge, and redistribute that separately, you don't have to credit a person who only worked on airport sprites
13:16:43 <Ammler> mostly it is Zephyris and a coder :-9
13:17:08 <Eddi|zuHause> that i did not check ;)
13:17:26 <planetmaker> ln-: OpenTTD is an open source clone of the Microprose game "Transport Tycoon Deluxe", a popular game originally written by Chris Sawyer. It attempts to mimic the original game as closely as possible while extending it with new features.
13:17:27 <planetmaker> OpenTTD is licensed under the GNU General Public License version 2.0. For more information, see the file COPYING included with every release and source download of the game.
13:17:32 <Ammler> if he didn't code it self ;-)
13:17:52 <planetmaker> with a link to the website will do, I guess in order to make it unambigeous.
13:18:01 <Eddi|zuHause> the individual attribution is just a bonus... just about the conflict prevention would be a great usability enhancement already
13:18:03 <Gekz> that clearly defines it.
13:18:16 <Gekz> Now think of a situation where someone is seriously going to pick through said license
13:18:29 <Gekz> why would they go out of their way to call a product OpenTTD
13:18:38 <Gekz> which would have nothing to do with whatever their product is
13:18:57 <Eddi|zuHause> planetmaker: but anyone who is allowed (per GPL) to make a modification to it, might redistribute that under a completely different name
13:19:27 <Gekz> they can redistribute OpenTTD all they want
13:19:33 <Gekz> it just cant include the opengfx then
13:19:41 <Eddi|zuHause> planetmaker: the opengfx license must not restrict this in any way
13:20:08 <Ammler> but that should also be possible, imo
13:20:11 <Eddi|zuHause> because any such clause is incompatible with the GPL
13:20:22 <planetmaker> because then it's not free anymore according to the debian definition.
13:20:28 <Ammler> forks (or however they are called) should also be able to use them...
13:20:38 <Gekz> then add that to the exception
13:20:45 <Gekz> OpenTTD and any future or past forks
13:20:57 <Gekz> it's not hard to elaborate upon an exception
13:21:05 <Eddi|zuHause> what about TTDP? which is undoubtedly not a fork?
13:21:19 <Ammler> Eddi|zuHause: they don't need it really.
13:21:31 <Ammler> as they need the original anyway.
13:21:32 <Eddi|zuHause> but they must be allowed to do so
13:21:43 <Ammler> you can use them anyway.
13:22:18 <Eddi|zuHause> say someone rewrites TTDP in a way they can use the opengfx, any such above discussed restriction would prevent them from using it
13:22:23 <Ammler> but OpenTTD can become independent with them.
13:22:33 <Gekz> then they may apply for an exception
13:22:36 <Gekz> or you can give them one
13:22:59 <Eddi|zuHause> Gekz: the point about "free" software is, that you DON'T HAVE TO ASK
13:23:17 <Gekz> point: this file isnt software
13:23:36 <Ammler> Eddi|zuHause: !s/free/open/
13:23:58 <Eddi|zuHause> free as in speech
13:24:25 <Gekz> as if I didnt see that one coming.
13:24:42 <Eddi|zuHause> public domain has also its limits
13:25:02 <Gekz> you may use it for any reason without limit >_>
13:25:06 <Eddi|zuHause> some laws make posession of certain software illegal
13:25:10 <dih> i refuse to use the opengfx stuff
13:25:23 <dih> i much prefer the original graphics
13:25:32 <Gekz> what the hell does that have to do with public domain
13:25:44 <Gekz> some laws make some things illegal.
13:26:01 <Eddi|zuHause> germany, for example, has a law that makes use of software illegal, that can crack copy-protection
13:26:17 <Eddi|zuHause> there it does not matter that the software might be public domain
13:26:20 <Eddi|zuHause> it is still restricted
13:26:55 <Gekz> has nothing to do with the fact that the software is free
13:27:10 <Gekz> you're just not free to use it.
13:27:36 <dih> yes - software is free, germans arnt
13:27:36 <Eddi|zuHause> same as for speech
13:27:54 <dih> yes - speach is free, germans still are not
13:27:55 <Eddi|zuHause> it is free, but some laws may still forbid certain expressions
13:28:31 <Eddi|zuHause> for example, holocaust denial is a crime in germany, where it would fall under free speech in america
13:29:04 <Gekz> Germany has some retarded laws.
13:29:26 <dih> in englans you are (by law) still allowed to shoot stocts with bow 'n arrow
13:29:31 <Eddi|zuHause> most of these are actually ones that were enforced by americans
13:29:35 <Gekz> speech has rules that arent based around law too
13:29:36 <Gekz> society doesnt like tsercertain opics
13:30:40 <hylje> free speech means you are supposed to be able to talk even about topics nobody likes
13:30:50 <dih> there is a state in the us where you are not allowed to cout backwards in hex
13:30:52 <hylje> too bad if the society doesn't want its faults to be exposed
13:31:18 <Gekz> FROM THE OTHER FUCKING ROOM
13:31:26 <Gekz> something is seriously broken
13:31:29 <dih> how do you know where i am sitting?
13:31:55 *** TheMask96 has joined #openttd
13:32:14 <Eddi|zuHause> <dih> there is a state in the us where you are not allowed to cout backwards in hex <- somebody was drunk, i assume :p
13:38:40 <Brianetta> Eddi, Gekz: If you want it in Debian, it MUST be GPL compatible.
13:39:16 <Gekz> Fuck, you people make me want to write a GPL-compatible artistic license.
13:39:22 <Gekz> just so I can say "THERE."
13:39:23 *** CommanderZ has joined #openttd
13:39:28 <Brianetta> dih: The scots and shooting thing was only in York, and the Law Commission has rescinded it.
13:39:43 <dih> Brianetta: what a shame :-P
13:39:46 <Brianetta> Gekz: There is one...
13:40:08 <Gekz> artistic license != an artistic license
13:40:21 <Gekz> thats not compatible afaik
13:40:30 <Brianetta> It is, according to the Gnu Project web site.
13:40:43 <Belugas> WE NEED LAWYERS LIARS!
13:41:10 <Brianetta> None of my art is scheduled for inclusion into anything.
13:41:51 *** Swallow has joined #openttd
13:47:57 <TrueBrain> peter1138 is getting all happy
13:49:25 <Eddi|zuHause> Brianetta: imho, as long as the hypothetical "openttd-gfx" package stays separate from the "openttd" package (as in, you can deselect the installation of it), CC-BY-SA will be perfectly fine to be included anywhere
13:49:59 <peter1138> Hmm, I left yorick banned... never mind.
13:50:31 <Eddi|zuHause> some person's log page must have insane traffic then :p
13:50:37 <Brianetta> Eddi: CC-BY-SA is, as far as I can tell, GPL compatible.
13:51:07 *** peter1138 sets mode: +q *!*Yorick@*.adsl.wanadoo.nl
13:51:10 *** peter1138 sets mode: -b *!*Yorick@*.adsl.wanadoo.nl
13:51:31 <Brianetta> Alas, poor Yorick. I knew him, Horatio; he was a man of infinite irritation.
13:51:51 <Brianetta> What does mode q do?
13:52:44 <TrueBrain> how many times is yorick banned by now ... :p I lost count
13:53:18 *** rolerzzis has joined #openttd
13:53:46 <Brianetta> I might just pop him on my ignorance list
13:53:46 <peter1138> Jez had a habit of using host anonymisers though.
13:54:05 *** rolerzzis has joined #openttd
13:54:23 <rolerzzis> whatt is upzzzz?????
13:54:31 *** peter1138 sets mode: +b *!*rolerzzis@87.110.170.*
13:54:31 *** rolerzzis was kicked by peter1138 (Sticky keys?)
13:54:36 <Eddi|zuHause> > grep Bann oftc.net_#openttd.log -i | grep yorick -i | grep verhängt | wc -l
13:55:18 <Eddi|zuHause> that's what my log says
13:55:20 <Brianetta> That's just what Eddi's witnessed
13:55:35 <Eddi|zuHause> first instance was 10th March
13:58:17 <Eddi|zuHause> > grep Bann oftc.net_#openttd.log -i | grep yorick -i | grep verhängt | awk '{ print $7 }' | sort | uniq -c
13:59:34 <Eddi|zuHause> peter1138: maybe it felt like 111 ;)
14:00:19 <TrueBrain> Eddi|zuHause: I only count 7 real bans for yorick
14:00:34 <TrueBrain> hmm, no, those stats are wrong
14:01:24 <TrueBrain> 97 bans in total since DorpsGek is here, 16 of which are for yorick .. :)
14:01:49 <Eddi|zuHause> see, that's what i said ;)
14:02:04 <TrueBrain> 364 kicks, 42 to yorick :p
14:02:39 <Rubidium> maybe we'd try mode q on yorick
14:02:41 <TrueBrain> 35 bans in total set by peter1138 :p
14:02:50 <TrueBrain> Rubidium: peter1138 did, if you would have read :p
14:03:12 <Eddi|zuHause> hm. i count only 337 kicks...
14:03:40 <TrueBrain> 20070403, first day DorpsGek was here
14:04:14 <Eddi|zuHause> 30th January is the first kick of yorick, according to my logs
14:04:43 <dih> or are you looking at those logs alos
14:04:54 <TrueBrain> dih: is in some archive, no interest :p
14:05:03 <Eddi|zuHause> *** Datum: Mo Jul 23 10:16:00 2007 <- the day my logs started
14:06:04 <dih> google for "kick yorick site:thegrebs.com"
14:06:30 <Eddi|zuHause> that's not actually a reliable method
14:06:34 <Brianetta> That'll be doubled by this conversation aofter the next index
14:07:46 <Eddi|zuHause> it counts pages where the words "kick" and "yorick" appear together
14:07:48 *** ChanServ sets mode: +o Bjarni
14:08:13 <Eddi|zuHause> it has nothing to do with wether a kick really occured, or if yorick was the target of that kick
14:08:49 <Bjarni> you want me to kick yorick?
14:09:05 <Eddi|zuHause> that'll be hard right now :p
14:09:33 * Bjarni sets mode +b *yorick!*@*
14:09:50 <Eddi|zuHause> yeah, that'll go well with the +q ;)
14:10:13 <Eddi|zuHause> who was that guy who was banned for months, and nobody cared?
14:11:07 <Eddi|zuHause> we should have a hall of unfame :p
14:11:11 <Bjarni> well we banned him for months and forgot about it
14:11:18 <Brianetta> people would try to get into it
14:14:29 <dih> Bjarni: yorick has a static ip ;-)
14:16:12 <Bjarni> but it would be more fun to ban a dynamic IP
14:16:27 <Forked> idents are picked by user..
14:16:49 <FauxFaux> Not on some machines.
14:16:50 <Bjarni> I have a dynamic IP and at one time I was unable to access a webserver. It claimed that I was banned due to spamming
14:17:35 <Bjarni> however I never posted anything on that server. It would have been ok for me to have it read only
14:17:39 <dih> Forked: look at the logs and you will find that for the pased year, that ident has not changed hostmask
14:19:09 *** Bjarni sets mode: +b *!*@*.igjen.vdsl2.no
14:19:23 <Bjarni> that is what you get for declaring that you have a static IP :P
14:19:39 *** Bjarni sets mode: -b *!*@*.igjen.vdsl2.no
14:19:40 <FauxFaux> You banned an entire ISP 'cos they give out static ips?
14:19:44 <Forked> Bjarni: thats on this line, I have the other DSL line as well =p
14:19:56 <dih> Eddi|zuHause: that's just you
14:20:05 <Forked> FauxFaux: I'm the only one with *.vdsl2.no hosts :) so ban that domain and you'll get rid of me
14:20:05 <Bjarni> FauxFaux: something like that
14:20:24 <Forked> (not really that many customers using vdsl2 ..yet)
14:20:44 <Eddi|zuHause> dih: ah well then, i started to think it was really a problem :p
14:21:15 <Forked> why would that pre signal not be any good? "is platform A or B free? no? I'll wait here for the first available"
14:21:46 <Eddi|zuHause> Forked: they are two separate stations, trains do not have a choice over A or B
14:23:09 <Rubidium> Eddi|zuHause: actually... if you set go non-stop to Grain Pickup 5 and that platform is full, it'll make another round instead of blocking the station
14:23:14 <peter1138> TrueBrain, lol, that guy made a mess of #tycoon
14:24:25 <Eddi|zuHause> Rubidium: for that to work, you would have an insanely high last-red penalty, (it's not twoway, so the eol cannot kick in)
14:25:23 <Eddi|zuHause> the last red signal must get a higher pathfinder result than another full round worth of tracks
14:30:13 *** CommanderZ has left #openttd
14:33:36 <Ammler> only 10 signals will be counted for penalty...
14:36:14 <Eddi|zuHause> the 10 first, and the last
14:36:53 <Eddi|zuHause> where the first is also treated differently than the next 9
14:38:00 <Eddi|zuHause> first is to choose a free junction exit, last to choose a free platform, and the first 10 for load balancing
14:39:14 *** TinoDidriksen has joined #openttd
14:39:27 <Eddi|zuHause> but i need to correct my previous statement, the first-red penalty must be high, as the last-red is also applied to the full round trip
14:39:42 <Eddi|zuHause> because it will end at that very same signal
14:39:58 <SmatZ> [15:51:08] *** peter1138 gives channel owner privileges to *!*Yorick@*.adsl.wanadoo.nl.
14:40:06 <SmatZ> I wonder why my client fails in this :-x
14:40:15 <Eddi|zuHause> SmatZ: it's a misinterpretation of the flag
14:40:23 <Eddi|zuHause> it has different meaning on different networks
14:40:32 <SmatZ> it is, and I get scared everytime it happens :)
14:40:32 <peter1138> I don't think so though :)
14:40:41 <Eddi|zuHause> yes, happened to me, too ;)
14:41:09 <Eddi|zuHause> the konversation people are over at freenode, i think
14:41:19 <Eddi|zuHause> you could request a change ;)
14:41:33 <Eddi|zuHause> but i kinda doubt that they're going to make another KDE3 release
14:42:23 <Eddi|zuHause> there's also an option to just show the raw mode changes
14:43:01 <SmatZ> Eddi|zuHause: found it, thanks :)
14:43:44 <Eddi|zuHause> so... who writes my diploma thesis now?
14:44:06 <SmatZ> go go go! what is your diploma thesis about?
14:44:29 <Eddi|zuHause> an abstraction layer to analyse combined python/c++ programs
14:45:08 <SmatZ> aha, I expected something more math-like :)
14:46:16 <TrueBrain> I have 2 identical system, or so I thought ... one does compile OSX GCC, the other doesn't ...
14:48:40 *** teggigi has joined #openttd
14:57:48 *** Rexxars has joined #openttd
14:57:56 <dih> 3mins 15secs to compile openttd in a vps
14:58:20 *** Dr_Jekyll has joined #openttd
15:05:37 <glx> peter1138: your hg fix was incomplete ;)
15:06:50 <TrueBrain> glx: nobody cares about MSVC :p
15:08:45 <peter1138> Oh, well fix it? :p
15:08:54 *** stillunknown has joined #openttd
15:10:49 <peter1138> Oh right, MSVC has to be different :P
15:11:23 <peter1138> Anyway, the hg log line is wrong too :(
15:12:12 <peter1138> changeset: 19837:c23c445783d6
15:12:16 <peter1138> $ hg log -k "svn" -l 1
15:12:16 <peter1138> changeset: 19897:6e3a58a7587d
15:12:41 <peter1138> Oh, TrueBrain, by the way...
15:13:34 <planetmaker> Because the choice is not equivalent and a train may go to the wrong station due to those mis-places pre-signal-exit-signals there.
15:13:48 <TrueBrain> isn't wrong a form of useless?
15:14:10 <peter1138> The pre-signals won't make a train choose the wrong path.
15:14:17 <Eddi|zuHause> planetmaker: but presignals do not influence the path the train chooses
15:14:18 <planetmaker> TrueBrain: I define useless as non-malicious, not detrimental, no effect
15:14:44 <TrueBrain> planetmaker: in no way I was being serious :)
15:14:48 <Eddi|zuHause> planetmaker: if there were no presignals, the train would still have the choice of the wrong platform
15:15:05 <planetmaker> Eddi|zuHause: they do IIRC. When the entry gets green... it will go to the green exit. If that's wrong - bad luck for the train.
15:15:23 <peter1138> It won't go to the green exit.
15:15:24 <planetmaker> Eddi|zuHause: yes, but then it won't chose the wrong one and will wait
15:15:28 <Eddi|zuHause> presignal exits have slightly different penalty
15:15:40 <Eddi|zuHause> but the choice is still the same
15:15:51 <peter1138> It will go to the exit that will take it to the station it intends to reach
15:16:20 <planetmaker> hm... got to test that somewhen... then they're at least useless :)
15:17:02 <Eddi|zuHause> like i said, you'd have to have insanely high penalties for the red signal to make the train take another roundtrip instead of waiting
15:17:50 <planetmaker> kk :) Obviously I've been living with the wrong assumptions on this point for quite some time without ever bothering to test - as it's either useless or wrong :P
15:18:10 <Belugas> fun fun fun... i don't understand it totally, therefor it's useless
15:18:15 *** grumbel has joined #openttd
15:18:34 <planetmaker> Belugas: ??? You looked at the image?
15:18:59 <Belugas> no, just your comments ;)
15:19:30 <Eddi|zuHause> Belugas: i just took the image from a random forum post, and wante to point out the rather obvious user error ;)
15:20:25 <planetmaker> gah... :) I think we all understand the intention of the builder. But either implementation is useless - and obviously I thought wrongly that it's even worse, that it's faulty
15:20:52 <Belugas> welll... didn't you concluded that presignals are useless?
15:21:05 <Belugas> or that HIS use of presignal is useless
15:21:46 <glx> peter1138: hg log is not hard to fix
15:22:49 <Belugas> then i retract my comment
15:24:12 <Eddi|zuHause> fun fun fun... don't fully understand the comment and it immediately is a stupid-user-bashing-feature-comment :p
15:25:44 <planetmaker> I think it can be savely assumed that people from #openttdcoop understand the basics of pre-signals - and abuse that more than some people like on this channel :P
15:26:16 <Eddi|zuHause> is it me or did the hostmask change?
15:26:27 <TrueBrain> since when do you use telfort? :p
15:26:40 <Bjarni> Eddi|zuHause: why was it that I should kick yorick?
15:26:45 <Belugas> Eddi|zuHause, it's easy to judge, based on the history of the said user ;)
15:26:45 *** peter1138 sets mode: +q *!*Yorick@*
15:27:22 *** Zephyris_ has joined #openttd
15:32:34 *** Zephyris_ is now known as Zephyris
15:49:16 <peter1138> CNU-OS 8.2(2ES1.) 3.3(0.2) CP-7971G-GE BCM1100-C1(MIPS32)
15:49:47 <peter1138> glx, fair enough... Any way to handle hg branch not working? :)
15:52:12 <glx> what's wrong with hg branch ?
15:53:21 <peter1138> hg: unknown command 'branch'
15:53:21 <peter1138> Mercurial Distributed SCM
15:53:21 <peter1138> basic commands (use "hg help" for the full list or option "-v" for details):
15:53:44 <hylje> hg has the bad habit of adding functionality each release
15:53:58 <FauxFaux> "The method setMigrationObjects(ArrayList<IMigration>) in the type AbstractMigrationObject is not applicable for the arguments (ArrayList<SomeMigrationImplementation>)" BAD ECLIPSE
15:54:28 * FauxFaux even thinks "wow, I didn't know Brianetta, that OpenTTD guy, used Eclipse".
16:02:53 *** ben_goodger__ has joined #openttd
16:06:13 <TrueBrain> bah, the latest House MD sucks ...
16:10:39 <Belugas> lat one in french didn't, TrueBrain :) was very good in a matter of fact
16:11:41 <TrueBrain> Belugas: well, season 4 ended with a big BOOM!
16:11:47 <TrueBrain> so you expect season 5 to start really cool
16:11:55 <TrueBrain> instead ... it was just an other episode :(
16:12:03 <TrueBrain> nothing ... worth talking about happened
16:14:58 * Belugas does not know what season number he's watching
16:15:28 *** European has joined #openttd
16:15:57 <Eddi|zuHause> i did not watch any house yet...
16:20:45 <Belugas> ho boy... already that late
16:26:35 *** [Nemesis] has joined #openttd
16:29:34 *** peter1138 sets mode: -q *!*Yorick@*
16:29:40 *** peter1138 sets mode: -q *!*Yorick@*.adsl.wanadoo.nl
16:30:10 <Eddi|zuHause> wth? "peter1138 nimmt *!*Yorick@* Operator-Status."???
16:31:02 <TrueBrain> Eddi|zuHause: we talked about that ...
16:31:28 <Eddi|zuHause> yes, but "owner"=="Besitzer", not "Operator"...
16:31:42 <TrueBrain> I think that part is not translated
16:32:17 <Eddi|zuHause> "*** peter1138 gibt *!*Yorick@* Besitzerstatus." <- that was the other message
16:33:15 * peter1138 is about to go home.
16:33:24 * Sacro really should get dressed
16:33:26 * Eddi|zuHause is about to go insane
16:33:36 <Sacro> Eddi|zuHause: s/go/go \ more/
16:34:43 <peter1138> Eddi|zuHause, get a better client :p
16:36:47 <Eddi|zuHause> well, the wrong "give" message is at least understandable, but the "takes" message is just plain wrong...
16:38:01 * Belugas reads a book on Guit Chords Chemistry
16:39:01 * Pikka is about to go to sleep
16:39:24 <Pikka> I turned this on to write a journal entry, but then decided not to...
16:41:43 <nick> can someone assist me with patching :)
16:42:03 <nick> i would like to patch the stable release 0.6.2 with a patch from a different revision, is this possible?
16:42:35 <Rubidium> unless you know quite a bit about programming and want to spend time
16:42:58 <nick> well quite simply put i would like to share infrastures on 0.6.2 on a dedicated server, is there a quick way to this ?
16:43:31 <nick> i tested the revision the patch was written on and 0.6.2 client gives a mismatch version error
16:47:13 <Rubidium> both the client and server need to be running exactly the same version
16:47:22 <Rubidium> otherwise you'll desync in no time
16:48:26 <nick> i have seen servers online running version 0.6.2 that have shared airports etc. do you know how this is done ?
17:07:17 *** |Jeroen| has joined #openttd
17:07:48 *** Dred_furst has joined #openttd
17:10:22 *** Yeggstry has joined #openttd
17:18:10 *** Progman has joined #openttd
17:26:34 *** mortal` has joined #openttd
18:02:28 *** De_Ghosty has joined #openttd
18:02:40 *** welshdragon has joined #openttd
18:17:16 *** Zealotus has joined #openttd
18:24:21 *** Aylomen has joined #openttd
18:30:00 *** frosch123 has joined #openttd
18:34:25 *** ben_goodger__ has joined #openttd
18:43:04 *** thingwath has joined #openttd
18:45:46 *** Zephyris_ has joined #openttd
18:49:44 *** Zephyris_ is now known as Zephyris
18:49:49 <yorick> <+glx> they can't be 0.6.2 <-- it is :-p
18:50:47 *** `Fuco`AFK has joined #openttd
18:52:32 <TrueBrain> lol, is it me, or does myottd.net only run pre 0.6.2 servers? :)
18:52:50 <yorick> is isn't you, spcomb never bothered updating
18:53:59 *** welshdragon has joined #openttd
18:55:26 <yorick> everyone can use airports with OWNER_NONE <-- that is NOT, and I repeat, that is NOT a bug report, rather a 'feature abuse'
18:56:06 <welshdragon> yorick, interesting :p
18:56:36 <yorick> just they deadlocked in 0.6.2, but that was solved some time ago
18:57:07 <TrueBrain> just being able to biuld such station, is a bug .. ;)
18:57:09 *** genclay has joined #openttd
18:57:22 <welshdragon> i'd like to see shared stations
18:57:37 <yorick> TrueBrain: you can't, so it isn't a bug
18:58:09 <welshdragon> it would save space, and you could set something that pays for access charges
18:59:29 <SpComb> TrueBrain: it's mostly a question of me waiting until I can shut it down
19:00:02 <Eddi|zuHause> the only way to do that that i can imagine is hacking a savegame
19:00:13 <peter1138> Bankruptcy springs to mind.
19:00:25 <Eddi|zuHause> or the scenario editor
19:00:37 <yorick> Eddi: the scenario editor turned out the way to go :)
19:00:49 <welshdragon> peter1138, i'm used to bankruptcy :P
19:01:49 <TrueBrain> SpComb: why shut down?
19:02:51 <SpComb> TrueBrain: because I realized that I simply don't have the time that's required to develop and maintain such a service
19:03:46 <SpComb> I had a bunch of interesting ideas for how it would work, but implementing them would take years, based on the current rate of work
19:03:50 <TrueBrain> how hard can it be to write 'tar' ...
19:04:08 <SpComb> you mean to update it to have 0.6.2?
19:04:28 <TrueBrain> SpComb: I ment to update it to have 0.6.2 ;)
19:04:50 <TrueBrain> but no, that 'tar' comment was not for you :p
19:04:57 <TrueBrain> (hehe, confusing, IRC ;)
19:05:13 <SpComb> the changes in the openttd.cfg stuff probably broke some of the MyOTTD stuff
19:05:28 <SpComb> which was the be expected
19:05:30 <TrueBrain> and it is always a shame that such projects consume such an amount of time
19:05:42 <TrueBrain> if only I have ALL the free time of the world, I knew 100 sub-projects in webpages dedicated to OpenTTD :p
19:06:17 <Eddi|zuHause> aren't jar files like zip files in disguise?
19:06:35 <yorick> Eddi: I always thought they were
19:06:43 <SpComb> perhaps some day I'll get the motiviation to spend a week or two working on the code and get something that works, but it's not really something I've planned
19:06:57 <yorick> but it turns out they often don't have compression
19:07:00 <TrueBrain> Eddi|zuHause: like 'wad' are 'tar' files in disuise
19:07:12 <TrueBrain> SpComb: oh well .. too bad :(
19:07:28 <yorick> and 'tar' are 'tar' files without disguise
19:07:47 <SpComb> until then, I'd be interested in knowing what year the bugmenot MyOTTD server is in :)
19:08:05 <peter1138> wad files are different depending on what it was for...
19:08:11 <peter1138> They're certainly not all tar files...
19:08:26 <TrueBrain> peter1138: agree'd :)
19:08:35 <TrueBrain> well, they never were tar-files at all, just the same basic idea ;)
19:08:39 <TrueBrain> same goed for 'zip' and 'jar' ;)
19:08:48 <TrueBrain> that was the point I was trying to make :p
19:09:02 *** welshdragon has joined #openttd
19:10:01 <TrueBrain> peter1138: what part? :)
19:33:20 <Bjarni> I kind of suspected foreign breweries used secret ingredients but I didn't expect this
19:33:28 <Bjarni> I mean they usually try to hide it
19:37:38 <yorick> I think that was supposed to be a combination of ls, but some logo designer turned it into a ß :p
19:45:42 <planetmaker> TrueBrain: your OS-X binary works flawlessly on intel OS-X 10.4
19:45:47 <Bjarni> the newspaper once wrote about a maid in Indonesia (or somewhere around that area) that got really upset with her boss so she peed in his drink. He suspected something was wrong when she served it and he made her drink it
19:45:55 <Bjarni> after that the police showed up and arrested her
19:46:03 <TrueBrain> I am now trying to input the data into the compile-farm ...
19:46:13 <TrueBrain> but it takes for ever to make a safety copy of a 3 GiB image .. :p
19:46:47 <Bjarni> note to readers: read every 2nd line for better understanding
19:47:29 <peter1138> Yeah, TrueBrain makes much more sense.
19:47:30 *** welshdragon has joined #openttd
19:48:02 <Rubidium> oh, you're counting in HDD GBs
19:48:41 <TrueBrain> 'HDD GBs'.. a new SI unit? :p
19:48:52 <peter1138> TrueBrain, not new :(
19:49:11 <Bjarni> 1 HHD GB = 1000 HHD MB
19:49:18 <TrueBrain> HDDs use GB, we use GiB
19:49:21 <TrueBrain> I don't see the problem there :)
19:50:48 <TrueBrain> silly udev, detecting a new card every time .. eth9 ... lol :p
19:51:51 <TrueBrain> peter1138: every time it sees a new MAC
19:52:00 <TrueBrain> so it adds an other line in the udev rules, with a new 'eth' assigned
19:52:04 <peter1138> It's a shell script that does that.
19:52:10 <peter1138> udev doesn't particularly care...
19:52:12 <TrueBrain> very annoying, hitting the 'reset MAC address' button in your VM :p
19:52:17 * yorick thanks TrueLight for the nice resize description comment :)
19:52:31 <TrueBrain> of course it are the script ......
19:52:43 <TrueBrain> but those that come with a default udev install
19:52:47 <peter1138> So it's easy to fix the script.
19:53:00 <TrueBrain> yeah, /etc/udev/rules.d/70-persistent-net.conf
19:53:14 *** Swallow has joined #openttd
19:53:19 * TrueBrain has no idea what yorick is talking about .. nothing new there
19:53:39 * peter1138 has no idea why he removed those channel modes.
19:53:39 <yorick> I said TrueLight :-P, the comment in window_gui.h
19:53:55 <TrueBrain> peter1138: I think it is time to put it back
19:54:20 <Bjarni> somebody stole his wallet?
19:54:31 <Bjarni> or did he donate all his money to us?
19:55:16 <Bjarni> I mean... you claim him to be poor
19:56:31 <TrueBrain> problem with testing this OSX ...
19:56:37 <TrueBrain> it takes 25 (!) minutes on my own machine to do a full compile
19:56:51 <TrueBrain> so I have to wait at least 30 minutes, before I know I forgot 'shutdown -h now' in the script :p
19:56:58 *** Brianetta has joined #openttd
19:58:19 <Bjarni> so basically you are wasting CPU power
19:58:42 <TrueBrain> euh, we are compiling OpenTTD every night
19:58:47 <TrueBrain> if you want to talk about CPU wasting ...
19:59:02 <Bjarni> at least people download those builds
19:59:03 <peter1138> We could just not compile OS X builds...
19:59:15 <Bjarni> we could shut down all computers in the world
19:59:27 <TrueBrain> I Agree with peter1138 :)
19:59:43 <Bjarni> that would reduce the CO2 emissions by 2%
20:11:55 * Belugas 's brain is melting... writing a ip client connection to a payment processing client that will talk to a payment processing server and hoping to get no time-out on the way...
20:16:55 *** stillunknown has joined #openttd
20:28:51 <Belugas> mmh... the only filter that i can remember is the one of stations
20:28:59 <Belugas> and... frankly, it suck
20:29:12 <peter1138> There's another filter.
20:29:23 <Belugas> the one in small map?
20:29:27 <peter1138> Industries on the minimap :D
20:29:43 <yorick> meh, I'm trying to patch that to the industry list
20:30:11 <Belugas> somehow, i don't think a transposition would be good
20:30:37 * Belugas rather see some kind of drop down menu
20:30:54 * Belugas remembers a patchhe made which introduced the checkbox widget
20:31:40 * Belugas realizes there is still half an hour left to his slaverish part of teh day
20:32:06 * peter1138 is considering going to bed, now that the CD has finished.
20:32:26 <TrueBrain> [2008-09-17 20:30:30] Job 0000176 finished in 1326 seconds
20:32:31 <TrueBrain> OSX (3 binaries in one)
20:32:39 <TrueBrain> always been an insane slow target :p
20:33:01 <peter1138> 22 minutes? How...?
20:33:19 <TrueBrain> peter1138: OSX is that slow
20:33:28 <TrueBrain> it used to take 6 minutes on 4 cores
20:33:32 <TrueBrain> now 22 minutes on 1 core
20:33:58 <TrueBrain> worst part: compile failed :(
20:34:09 <peter1138> Why is it so slow? A load of extra complex headers or something?
20:34:20 <TrueBrain> I never knew it any different way
20:34:27 <Prof_Frink> < OSX> Because I fail.
20:34:34 <TrueBrain> well, there you have it
20:38:17 <peter1138> Well, I'm going to bed.
20:39:29 <TrueBrain> okay, changed things in OSX .. retrying
20:50:48 *** roboboy has joined #openttd
20:54:04 <Belugas> CIA-1 joins and I leave for the rest of the day
20:54:13 <yorick> how does the smallmap industry selector copy with at max 64 industries?
20:56:45 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: frosch * r14335 /trunk/src/ (ai/default/default.cpp ai/trolly/build.cpp town_cmd.cpp): -Codechange: Remove some magic numbers.
20:58:57 <Prof_Frink> Eek! Multicoloured commitnotice!
20:59:38 <TrueBrain> tick tack, goes my clock
20:59:53 <frosch123> I like "frosch" being greenish :)
20:59:54 <TrueBrain> 25 minutes is a long time if you are waiting for it ..
21:00:06 <yorick> tick tock, goes my clock
21:01:18 <TrueBrain> 'college' or 'Forgetting Sarah Marshall' ...
21:02:05 <TrueBrain> oeh, it finished ...
21:02:13 <TrueBrain> doesn't show 'failure' ion log ..
21:02:20 <TrueBrain> oh boy ... I don't dare to look ..
21:03:09 *** Nite_Owl has joined #openttd
21:03:18 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: smatz * r14340 /trunk/src/openttd.cpp: -Fix (r11822): signs from old savegames were lost (causing little memory leaks)
21:03:46 <Bjarni> looks like CIA is lagging
21:04:04 <frosch123> yes, about 48 hours
21:04:47 *** Brianetta has joined #openttd
21:04:53 <TrueBrain> planetmaker: if youahve the time, please test it
21:04:58 <TrueBrain> (should work, but I want to be 100% sure :p)
21:05:05 <TrueBrain> happy happy joy joy happy happy joy joy
21:05:26 <yorick> happy happy joy joy happy happy joy joy
21:05:47 <yorick> happy happy happy happy joy joy happy happy hoy hoy hoy hoy happy happy joy!
21:06:20 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: frosch * r14333 /trunk/docs/ (landscape.html landscape_grid.html): -Documentation: Update docs/landscape*. Based on patch by yorick.
21:06:20 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: smatz * r14334 /trunk/src/ (17 files in 2 dirs): -Feature: ability to reset name to default/automatic value (for vehicles, engines, towns, groups, stations, waypoints, managers and companies)
21:06:24 *** yorick was kicked by DorpsGek (happy happy joy joy?)
21:06:30 <teggigi> is it possible to save junctions / stations like in rct? :o
21:06:35 <yorick> yes, happy happy joy joy!
21:07:12 <TrueBrain> I now expect some heavy personal donations
21:07:16 <teggigi> is it even possible to create one? :p
21:07:54 <Bjarni> teggigi: since we have the source code we can do everything
21:08:09 <Bjarni> the question is how much work it will be and if it's worth the needed time
21:08:15 <Bjarni> and if we want the result
21:08:27 <teggigi> well i'm definitely throwing the suggestion in the box :p
21:08:46 <Bjarni> you aren't the first one to do so
21:08:54 <frosch123> there is a copy and paste patch on the forums
21:08:56 <lobster> oh TrueBrain, awesome
21:09:11 <TrueBrain> I am known to have magic hands ;)
21:09:26 <TrueBrain> but we are using cross-compiler again
21:09:27 <Bjarni> <lobster> how did you do that? <-- he couldn't have done it without me
21:09:32 <TrueBrain> so no .dmg support yet
21:09:39 <TrueBrain> but ... at least working binaries, also for 10.5 Intel :)
21:09:45 <TrueBrain> Bjarni: LOL! PUKE PUKE
21:09:49 <TrueBrain> you just provided the SDK
21:09:53 * lobster goes to install it rightaway
21:09:59 <TrueBrain> which I had to wait for (for 4 hours :()
21:10:06 <TrueBrain> you couldn't even give me a shell access :(
21:10:40 <teggigi> my friend wants to know what you use to code this stuff
21:11:11 <teggigi> thanks, i'll totally tell him that
21:11:15 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: smatz * r14336 /trunk/src/openttd.cpp: -Fix (r14334): when there was a station with custom name in an old savegame, it's default name was empty
21:11:35 <TrueBrain> teggigi: refering to what?
21:11:48 <teggigi> TrueBrain i have no idea, i'm guessing code
21:11:53 <TrueBrain> lobster: you do understand I now expect a donation from you? :)
21:11:57 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: smatz * r14337 /trunk/src/ (9 files): -Codechange: use CmdRename* and CMD_RENAME_* for vehicle, president and company renaming commands, too
21:11:58 <teggigi> i have no clue about this at all so i won't assume too much :p
21:12:01 <Prof_Frink> "it is default name was empty"?
21:12:03 *** Sacro_ is now known as Sacro
21:12:13 <lobster> works like a charm, TrueBrain
21:12:15 <TrueBrain> teggigi: then I can't help you answer your question, if you don't know the question :)
21:12:29 <lobster> and well, at the next donation round i'll be sure do drop in a good few bucks
21:12:57 <TrueBrain> Donations are always open ;) :p
21:13:13 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: glx * r14338 /branches/noai/ (112 files in 11 dirs): [NoAI] -Sync: with trunk r14280:14337
21:13:13 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: smatz * r14339 /trunk/src/openttd.cpp: -Fix (r13731): crash when loading the intro game failed
21:13:29 <teggigi> he apparently meant what language
21:13:32 <teggigi> and so did i, i just did a lol
21:14:26 <Bjarni> oh then you should have asked for which language we use
21:15:27 <Bjarni> we use English most of the time
21:15:48 *** penfold has joined #openttd
21:15:59 <Bjarni> how about checking the source?
21:16:25 <teggigi> i am, just brainlagging a bit while trying to piece this junction together :p
21:16:40 <murray> shit, i see i'm a bit late, but i have to say - the new website is smooooth, congrats !
21:17:39 <TrueBrain> teggigi: ignore Bjarni; OpenTTD is written in C++ in its current stage
21:17:58 <Sacro> TrueBrain: porting to perl you say?
21:18:35 <teggigi> i was looking at the wrong page then
21:18:35 <Prof_Frink> Sacro: No, fuckfuck.
21:18:42 <Bjarni> why is the SF page claiming the project to be part C and part C++?
21:20:46 <Rubidium> Bjarni: because we have .c files?
21:21:40 <Bjarni> Rubidium: we changed them to .cpp
21:22:50 <lobster> it also doesn't slow down as soon as i reach a city :D
21:23:00 * lobster is floating in OTTD goodness
21:23:07 <TrueBrain> made one user happy again :p
21:23:22 <Rubidium> Bjarni: really? ah well, guess that find is broken as `find trunk -iname "*.c"` gives me results
21:24:19 <Prof_Frink> alan@frinkpad:~/src/openttd/trunk/src$ ls *.c
21:24:20 <Prof_Frink> ls: cannot access *.c: No such file or directory
21:25:00 <Bjarni> but if we classify the game as part C on that page, then why not mention objective C?
21:25:13 <Bjarni> I mean I think we have more objective C than C
21:26:48 <Eddi|zuHause> maybe it still counts the .c files in various branches?
21:27:15 <Eddi|zuHause> or it counts the lines that have not changed between the renaming to .cpp and now?
21:27:44 <Bjarni> I think a somebody manually selected what flags to display on that page
21:28:21 <Eddi|zuHause> then change it? ;)
21:30:16 <Bjarni> for some reason nobody will give me the root password to the internet
21:31:53 <Bjarni> I read on a mac news site the other day
21:32:19 <Bjarni> there was a news item about Transport Tycoon was ported to OSX
21:32:35 <Bjarni> it only took them 4 years to figure that out
21:33:05 <Bjarni> people commented that it wasn't really news but it was still a good game and worth checking out
21:33:55 <Chrill> Is there a way to get a scneario landscape, but automatically removin all industries and cities?
21:33:59 <Bjarni> but I like that a news site showed 4 years old news as recent news :p
21:37:46 <Brianetta> welshdragon: You went bankrupt.
21:37:53 <Brianetta> It's safe to return.
21:39:31 <Brianetta> "Your 'OPENTTDW.GRF' file is corrupted or missing! The file was part of your installation."
21:39:31 <Brianetta> Does this matter? I sem to be in the game...
21:39:40 <welshdragon> Brianetta, i know
21:40:24 <TrueBrain> Brianetta: expect graphical issues :p
21:41:04 <Ammler> maybe someone updated the grf but forgot the obg...
21:41:09 <TrueBrain> joy joy happy happy
21:41:15 <TrueBrain> OS X works, OS X works
21:41:43 <TrueBrain> (haha :p Puke puke)
21:45:29 <Ammler> from tomorrow on, we have again OSX nightliy?
21:45:38 <TrueBrain> check the website you twat :p
21:47:47 <TrueBrain> Ammler: in other words, the OSX binaries are already available
21:48:18 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: rubidium * r14341 /extra/pngcodec/ (7 files): [pngcodec] -Change: make the makefiles/scripts compatible with the compile farm.
21:48:27 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: truebrain * r14342 /extra/pngcodec/ (Makefile Makefile.msvc crc32.hpp minipng.hpp): [pngcodec] -Fix: you can silent the compile too much ;) ('make' didn't show a thing, given a false idea of nothing doing anything)
21:50:33 <Ammler> we do not use tonights nightly :-)
21:50:44 <TrueBrain> start using them :p
21:51:02 <TrueBrain> I am not going to compile any older ones :p
21:51:11 <TrueBrain> (22 minutes per compile .. no tnx :p)
21:51:45 <Ammler> is that because they are universal?
21:51:50 <TrueBrain> and because it is OSX
21:51:54 <TrueBrain> 7 minutes for one ..
21:51:58 <TrueBrain> even MSVC is quicker :p
21:52:36 <DorpsGek> TrueBrain: 7.71666666667
21:52:52 <TrueBrain> so yes, 3 in one is the only reason :p
21:53:32 *** Phoenix_the_II has quit IRC
21:54:23 <Ammler> the problem of those univeral builds is, that you can't share OSX over TT-Forums.
21:55:46 <Ammler> max of attachments is 3MB
21:56:56 <TrueBrain> nightlies are hitting 2.9, almost 3.0
21:58:25 <Ammler> well, orudge could also rise the limit
21:58:37 <Ammler> and make the limit per user
21:58:54 <TrueBrain> I don't need tt-forums to upload files :p
21:59:37 <XeryusTC> Ammler: split archives
22:00:05 <Ammler> TrueBrain: think for the community :P
22:01:20 <Ammler> well, it is not really bad, just a disadvantage of the universal build we had to fight with.
22:01:24 *** Phoenix_the_II has joined #openttd
22:01:34 *** genclay is now known as Yeggstry
22:06:02 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: smatz * r14343 /trunk/src/ (aircraft.h aircraft_cmd.cpp vehicle.cpp): -Fix [FS#2300]: invalid v->u.air.targetairport could cause crashes at several places when the station pool got smaller
22:07:25 <Progman> these bug report fixes always sound funny and in some kind weird ;)
22:07:44 *** Osai is now known as Osai^zZz
22:11:29 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: smatz * r14344 /trunk/src/station.cpp: -Fix: when a new airport is built in the same tick as the old station is deleted, aircraft may go crazy (and crash the game)
22:18:12 <DorpsGek> TrueBrain: aylomen was last seen in #openttd 6 days, 6 hours, 47 minutes, and 4 seconds ago: <Aylomen> www.openttdcoop.org
22:35:18 <TrueBrain> orudge: you ever played in a movie?
22:35:32 <TrueBrain> I am watching one, and you really look like one of those persons :p
22:35:39 <TrueBrain> (compared to the TT Meet vide, that is)
22:38:57 *** reldred|gone is now known as reldred
22:42:03 *** Yeggstry is now known as Yeggzzz
23:09:13 <Nite_Owl> Need to feed - L8r all
23:13:12 *** mucht_home has joined #openttd
23:13:34 *** reldred is now known as reldred|gone
23:14:34 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: smatz * r14345 /trunk/src/ (signs.cpp signs_func.h signs_gui.cpp):
23:14:34 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: -Fix: delete the RenameSignWindow when 'its' sign is deleted
23:14:34 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: Also, it makes sure the RenameSignWindow isn't open when there are no signs (and crashes associted with that)
23:15:11 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: smatz * r14346 /trunk/src/signs_gui.cpp: -Codechange [FS#2184]: reduce code duplication when jumping to next/previous sign in signs_gui.cpp (Roujin)
23:24:59 <Eddi|zuHause> CIA-1 is still like a dozen revisions behind...
23:46:21 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: rubidium * r14347 /branches/0.6/ (13 files in 2 dirs): (log message trimmed)
23:46:21 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: [0.6] -Backport from trunk:
23:46:21 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: - Fix: Invalid v->u.air.targetairport could cause crashes at several places [FS#2300] (r14343, 14344)
23:46:21 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: - Fix: Signs from old savegames were lost (causing little memory leaks) (r14340)
23:46:23 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: - Fix: When a company was renamed and then manager was renamed before building anything, company name changed (r14328)
23:46:23 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: - Fix: When you rename a town before building something and build something near that town your company would be called "<old townname> Transport" [FS#2251] (r14327)
23:46:25 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: - Fix: Free any blocks that a helicopter may have on an oilrig when the helicopter gets forcefully removed (bankruptcy). For other airports this isn't needed as they can't be used by multiple companies [FS#2241] (r14324)
23:48:11 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: smatz * r14348 /trunk/src/ (economy.cpp openttd.cpp): -Fix (r1667): signs were not updated on company bankrupcy/sell, they have colour of invalid player
23:49:23 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: truebrain * r14349 /branches/noai/ (2 files in 2 dirs): [NoAI] -Fix: AIEngineList showed all engines, instead the ones available to you
23:52:37 <Sacro> You can have 2 subsidiaries offered at once
23:55:35 <Sacro> this route will either pay 8x or 16x
continue to next day ⏵
