IRC logs for #openttd on OFTC at 2008-09-07
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00:15:53 <Quatroking> does anyone wants to play on my server
00:16:01 <Quatroking> Quatroworld's OpenTTD Game
00:23:56 <TrueBrain> and I have a stick I want ...
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00:26:00 <TrueBrain> cool, a new version of 'zip' was is in fact more use friendly
00:26:03 <TrueBrain> who would have thought ..
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06:45:17 <nckomodo> I need a cock in my mouf
06:45:33 <nckomodo> oh holy crap this totally isnt YSN
06:45:42 <nckomodo> serves me right for IRC and smoking
06:55:31 <peter1138> You should spell mouth correctly.
06:55:55 <nckomodo> yeah I'm sorry, I'm not at the peak of typing prowess right now
06:56:52 <nckomodo> typing with a cigarette in one hand is ahrd work
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07:05:16 <Celestar> Who wants to overhaul the cargodest wiki?
07:05:28 <Celestar> it's grown and grown and is now a total mess.
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07:11:20 <eekee> Secure Connection Failed -- secure.openttd.org uses an invalid security certificate.
07:17:35 <Celestar> oh no I pressed CTRL+G
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07:38:12 <eekee> I assume your "What the hell" was pertains to my comment about the invalid server certificate?
07:39:47 <peter1138> See that to resolve your issue.
07:42:25 <eekee> nothing about troubleshooting, and their own certificate has an unknown issuer. I suppose I could add it as an exception, it seems better than nothing
07:46:29 <peter1138> You need to install their root certificate.
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07:53:08 <peter1138> Rubidium, I'm getting crashes on exit during saving of the config :o
07:54:35 <peter1138> Possibly not helped by Celestar making a mess of savegame changes...
08:06:51 <peter1138> Hmm, seems okay with a fresh config, but...
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08:17:37 * peter1138 sees no reason for it, but new IniGroup() is failing.
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08:19:34 * peter1138 takes the sensible option and puts the kettle on.
08:19:39 <Rubidium> peter1138: where is it failing? (i.e. what line's calling it)
08:20:01 <peter1138> name is "rn.road_penalty_factor", len is 2
08:20:57 <peter1138> That's how it works.
08:21:07 <peter1138> I thought you'd written some of this :o
08:21:23 <peter1138> src:settings.cpp:505
08:22:25 <Rubidium> oh... rn is a group? Clear naming I'd say
08:23:42 <Rubidium> can you give me your openttd.cfg?
08:24:22 <peter1138> Like "pf" is a group too ;)
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08:51:38 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: rubidium * r14257 /trunk/src/ini.cpp: -Fix (r14153): incorrect update of ini-file group tail pointer causing memory corruption.
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09:57:09 <rortom> what does the "noise generated X" thing mean in the nightlies?
09:57:25 <rortom> upon station building?
09:57:40 <hylje> people don't like noise
09:58:05 <SpComb> some new local authority thing?
10:12:11 <rortom> mh, what does noise affect?
10:24:34 <Vikthor> rortom: the airport type you can build
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11:13:57 <frosch123> is that something for musicians?
11:23:35 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: rubidium * r14258 /trunk/src/ (12 files):
11:23:35 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: -Codechange: rework the way to query the vehicle hash to make sure it always results in the same irregardless of the order of the hash-linked-list.
11:23:35 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: -Fix: desync in PBS reservation following, vehicle flooding and road vehicle overtake/follow code.
11:27:35 <Rubidium> with quite some effort it should be
11:27:41 <Rubidium> doesn't change the map format
11:36:14 <Rubidium> though imo the waypoint issue should be fixed too
11:36:28 <Rubidium> before releasing 0.6.3
11:38:33 <Rubidium> but I'm still not having a single clue on the cause of the issue
11:40:53 <peter1138> Any reports of it in trunK/
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11:45:05 <Rubidium> hmm... many many conflicts in backporting 14258
11:54:13 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: rubidium * r14259 /branches/0.6/src/ (10 files):
11:54:13 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: [0.6] -Backport from trunk:
11:54:13 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: - Fix: desync due to randomly ordered vehicle hash by flooding and road vehicle overtake/following (r14258)
11:55:41 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: rubidium * r14260 /trunk/src/ (4 files in 3 dirs): -Fix [FS#2277]: merge keycode for "normal" 0-9 keys and keypad 0-9 keys so people don't get confused that the keypad doesn't work as expected.
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11:56:54 <Alberth> peter1138: Just reported a problem with cargodest in the Cargodest forum thread. Should I also create a link to the post at the Wiki?
12:19:12 <Hassan> Could someone here tell me when the nighly's can be downloaded again? Or is it possible to download the latest nightly somewhere else?
12:19:34 <Hassan> I am have trouble to connect to nightlys.openttd.org (or something like that)
12:19:56 <Rubidium> have you read the notice at the top of the page?
12:20:02 <FauxFaux> It appears to be down for me, too.
12:20:19 <Hassan> Compile board is also down...
12:20:29 <Hassan> So Rubidium to answer your question, yes I did
12:20:49 <Rubidium> oh... it's sunday again I reckon
12:20:55 * Rubidium slaps that hungarian library
12:21:09 <Hassan> I searched the forums for a message, but nobody else has submitted the problem...
12:21:36 <Hassan> Do you have a "back-up" link for me Rubidium? :)
12:22:14 <Hassan> Never would have thought I was the first to notice :p
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13:25:01 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: matthijs * r14261 /trunk/ (Makefile.src.in findversion.sh):
13:25:01 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: -Change [Makefile]: Move the revision detection code from Makefile.src.in to a
13:25:01 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: new bash script findversion.sh. This commit should have no functional changes.
13:30:58 <murray> can i ask, how do you detect a commit event on svn?
13:31:03 <murray> like you're doing there
13:31:29 <TrueBrain> murray: post-commit hook of subversion
13:32:14 <murray> thanks, looking that up
13:36:30 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: matthijs * r14262 /trunk/Makefile.bundle.in:
13:36:30 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: -Feature [Makefile]: Let Makefile.bundle.in also use the new findversion.sh
13:36:30 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: script. This enables revision detection for bundles for git and hg checkouts.
13:36:45 <yorick> ok, I was looking for you
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14:37:57 <peter1138> Oh, missed Celestar :o
14:43:33 <peter1138> What does that fix?
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14:44:37 <yorick> the inability to know which client did a command in a coop game?
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14:56:21 <sulai> is there a posibility to slow down the game, say to 3 FPS?
14:56:45 <FauxFaux> Hold ctrl+print screen.
14:56:58 <sulai> hehe yeah nice idea FauxFaux
14:57:58 <Prof_Frink> sulai: Run it on a 386?
14:58:05 <sulai> ctrl+print screen works perfectly, thanx =)
15:00:03 <yorick> be careful, it erases the clipboard :-p
15:01:19 <SmatZ> like all those speed optimizations are contraproductive
15:01:35 <SmatZ> there are always unhappy plyers :)
15:01:53 <sulai> I like it like the old days =D
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15:27:23 <planetmaker> Hm... How can I achieve that FOR_ALL_PLAYERS(p) works for more than one following line of code?
15:27:39 <planetmaker> like FOR_ALL_PLAYERS(p) { line1; line2; ... }
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15:29:27 <yorick> planetmaker: try grepping it
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15:30:36 <yorick> FOR_ALL_PLAYERS(p) {line1;
15:31:26 <planetmaker> Thx peter1138, yorick
15:31:42 <peter1138> Fancy a pull? I fixed the saveload code to work properly...
15:33:03 <Celestar> peter1138: pull from where?
15:33:55 <peter1138> Hmm, it would be on hg.openttd.org if that would automatically restart :o
15:34:40 <Celestar> it reloads every few minutes
15:34:42 <peter1138> Might still work, heh...
15:35:09 <peter1138> It fixes the dodgy syncs so that trunk savegames load. Previous cargodest games won't, of course.
15:35:31 <Celestar> yeah. but we currently need the previous cargodest games for testing :(
15:37:22 <Celestar> especially for the debugging
15:37:24 <peter1138> I couldn't test my recent trunk game either :p
15:39:38 <rortom> train replacement is somehow buggy for special trains
15:39:56 <rortom> replace ICE-1 with ICE-3 = "STOP" wagons
15:40:16 <peter1138> That's the fault of the GRF. The solution is to not do that.
15:40:40 <rortom> can the grf determine how to replace stuff?
15:41:11 <frosch123> rortom: you can also manually start those "STOP" trains
15:41:45 <Celestar> rortom: the problem is simple: ICE-1 are dual heads. You prolly have a ICE-1 with 14 carriages. You replace it by an ICE3 (single head), so you end up with 1+14 = 15 units, which is one too few. Correct solution would be to have the reverse thing of the "Car Removal" feature.
15:41:45 <frosch123> grfs can disallow trains to be started with certain conditions, and autoreplace would also pay attention to that, but dbxsl does not as it is too old
15:42:04 <Celestar> like "Car Add" feature
15:43:03 <Ammler> Celestar: new cargo patch improved around 10-20%
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15:44:49 <Celestar> Ammler: you mean 10% or 10 percentage points.
15:45:52 <Ammler> cpu load is very floating, but my guess is around drop from 40 to 30%
15:46:20 <Celestar> that's a 25% drop (=
15:47:25 <Celestar> rortom: you can now hope that someone codes that feature :P
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15:48:10 <rortom> im busy with coding on RoR :|
15:48:29 <el_En> ur apostrophe is missing
15:48:33 <frosch123> naa, everything will work with dbset 0.9 :)
15:49:19 <Celestar> frosch123: auto-add wagons?
15:49:29 <Ammler> well, you could also make the length of IC1/2 the length, you can later upgrade
15:49:55 <frosch123> no, but it will stop autoreplace to create trains with "stop" wagons
15:49:56 <Celestar> Ammler: not really, because then the ICE1 would be 17 tiles in length
15:50:25 <Ammler> you can remvoe waggons
15:50:37 <Celestar> we don't need to remove, we need to ADD
15:50:49 <frosch123> but despite of that dbset 0.9 will include everything you can imagine (also dnf)
15:51:18 <Celestar> when is it going to be released?
15:51:27 <Celestar> and will it feature anything usable pre-1920?
15:51:33 <frosch123> shortly after ottd 1.0
15:52:16 <Celestar> well, let's finish cargodest, newgrf_ports infrastructure sharing, opengfx and 32bpp, and we can release 1.0, can we not? (=
15:53:39 <Ammler> frosch123: we should found a fan club around MB, I am sure Eddi|zuHause would also participate ;-)
15:53:51 <Celestar> Ammler: long story short, my stuff I added yesterday, you say they lower CPU load considerable?
15:54:04 <frosch123> according to mb we already have a club
15:54:50 <frosch123> btw. in fact I have a newgrf that identifies as dbset 0.9 :)
15:55:33 <Ammler> Celestar: I think so, but I didn't do much with
15:55:51 <frosch123> I cannot remember where I got it, I guess mb posted an example for some newgrf newbie somewhere... but it contains only a single engine which you cannot attach anything to
15:56:07 <Celestar> Ammler: if you say it appears to go down from 40% to 30%, that's perfectly enough for me (=
15:56:10 <Ammler> if TrueBrain could trigger the compile farm, we can ask those, which have more problems with the load...
15:56:30 <Celestar> Ammler: there's one more fix under way (=
15:58:00 <FauxFaux> We were talking about increasing the max clients/companies the other day, did anyone look into that, or can anyone remember who said they had a patch wrt. smallvector. Was it peter1138?
15:58:46 * Celestar shakes his head in utter disbelief
16:00:00 <Celestar> Ok people take an old version of cargodest, add some more custom patches to it, RANT about a problem on the forum, even though I specifically ask not to write bug reports there, don't produce a savegame of the problem (which I couldn't debug anyway because of the custom patches) and then expect me to solve the problem?
16:01:20 <Celestar> no I didn't fix his problem, because I don't understand it in the first place
16:01:48 <Celestar> is there a way to force a revision without having recompile the whole source base?
16:02:20 <yorick> Celestar: try changing rev.cpp
16:03:50 * Celestar pats FauxFaux for using rafb instead of the dreadful pastebin
16:04:22 <FauxFaux> Um, actually, that's a bad patch, ignore it. ¬_¬
16:04:42 <qkr> any expert want to give some tips for a beginner?
16:04:44 <Celestar> I didn't look at it :P
16:04:52 <Celestar> qkr: beginnin in what? playing or coding?
16:05:35 <Celestar> qkr: what do you need help with and did you find the online manual?
16:06:01 <qkr> I'm not total beginner, intermediate I guess...I need help with understanding signals, and load balancers and that stuff
16:06:46 <Celestar> qkr: nightly, source or release?
16:07:24 <Celestar> oh then forget that link, it's no in release yet
16:07:32 *** yorick is now known as Guest5760
16:08:16 <KillaloT> When has Signal GUI been released?
16:08:46 <KillaloT> I'm on version 0.6.1
16:09:16 <Celestar> it reads 0.6.0 on the wiki
16:09:48 <yorick> KillaloT: you need to enable it at patches
16:09:55 <KillaloT> .. yea, i just read that
16:10:53 <KillaloT> .. but i got no openttd.cfg :S
16:12:04 <Ammler> yorick: advanced settins :P
16:12:37 <Ammler> frosch123: did you commit it?
16:13:25 <qkr> I know how to use basic presignals like when entering a station with multiple tracks, I just need to understand how to use them backwards in priority / load balancer...I already read about it on the openttdcoop wiki
16:13:45 <Alberth> KillaloT: 'configure patches', 'construction', last on/off entry (4th from the bottom or so)
16:14:36 <Ammler> qkr: there is another guide from uwe
16:16:20 <Celestar> TrueBrain: are you around?
16:16:48 *** yorick is now known as Guest5761
16:17:52 * Celestar hates the cargodest wiki
16:20:22 <frosch123> Ammler: no, I did not manage to do anything useful this weekend
16:20:50 <Celestar> I was just editing a screenshot of openttd in gimp. To save, I tried using openttd's save button on the screen about a hundred times, wondering why it doesn't work and cursing gimp
16:21:56 <Ammler> that is a nice one, well, screenshots of ottd are dangerous
16:22:06 <Forked> I usually try to zoom out
16:22:21 <Forked> (or in, depending on the screenshot)
16:23:09 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: smatz * r14263 /trunk/src/ (lang/english.txt signs_gui.cpp): -Codechange: give a better error message when removing a sign fails
16:23:16 <Ammler> somewhere the revision would be nice
16:23:47 <Celestar> hg diff | grep ^- | wc -l ; hg diff | grep ^+ | wc -l
16:24:39 <Celestar> and producing more readable code :P
16:25:44 <Celestar> polymorphism is cool
16:25:46 <Ammler> what is the difference between " ; " and && in bash?
16:25:57 <Celestar> Ammler: ; just separates two statements
16:26:19 <Celestar> expr1 && expr2 executes expr2 only if expr1 returned 0 :P
16:26:30 <Celestar> or the short story: as in C
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16:46:09 <qkr> is there any way to stop trains from getting old?
16:46:38 <tokai> afaik there was a patch option for this
16:46:56 <Ammler> if you mean with "getting old" unavailable, yes.
16:47:19 <qkr> no, I mean I have to replace my old trains
16:47:36 <tokai> couldn't u disable breakdowns?
16:47:55 <tokai> didn't played for ages.. dunno how this options are called these days:)
17:00:39 <ecke> Ammler ....could you make wwottdgd version for normal use (creating companies) ... for win32, linux?
17:01:03 <ecke> we again play TiPP version its bugy...
17:01:22 <ecke> 3 times we play 3 times was game finished by error
17:01:23 <Ammler> ecke: planetmaker was the wwottdgd developer :-)
17:01:52 <ecke> planetmaker ....could you make wwottdgd version for normal use (creating companies) ... for win32, linux? ^^^
17:02:12 <planetmaker> uh... that's an aweful lot of work
17:02:36 <Ammler> planetmaker: wasn't the company thing just setting?
17:02:56 <planetmaker> I think the problem is the join as spectator thingy.
17:03:03 <planetmaker> But not sure anymore
17:03:27 <Ammler> if you use the client version as server?
17:03:36 <planetmaker> I think ecke tried that :P
17:04:06 <Ammler> yep, I did only publish the client versions on the wiki
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17:04:23 <ecke> i used win32 version which is on wiki...
17:04:42 <qkr> what are the minimum system requirements for openttd? are they listed on the wiki somewhere?
17:04:46 <ecke> ... i used it as dedicated win32 server... nobodz can create companz
17:05:33 <planetmaker> As I said: make a map where already companies are present...
17:06:12 <yorick> or use the patch I created somewhere on flyspray to create companies
17:06:34 <planetmaker> yorick: if he could compile, things were easy, I guess :)
17:06:41 <ecke> i am switching keyboard ... sry for "z"
17:09:19 <ecke> planetmaker .. yes... but i dont have version which with can i create save with companies
17:09:39 <planetmaker> ecke: you tried OpenTTD 0.6.1?
17:10:16 <planetmaker> I really wonder, because the map was created with a trunk version of that time.
17:11:36 <planetmaker> Prof_Frink: if you can do that, that's worth an extra cookie :)
17:11:38 <ecke> ok i could try once again...
17:12:27 <planetmaker> sorry, but changing this patch pack - especially as it's now thoroughly outdated - is far from anything I consider fun.
17:12:49 <planetmaker> Besides, I cannot compile windows binaries.
17:13:10 <planetmaker> And changing anything would then still require you to obtain that binary.
17:13:29 <planetmaker> And AFAIK I understood you, you're mostly interested in the infrastructure sharing - or?
17:14:06 <ecke> yes ... i like IS ... i am finding some "stable" version for online play
17:15:20 <TrueBrain> I wish people would leave why they wanted to talk to you ... oh well :)
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17:18:44 <glx> FauxFaux: the right fix is !=(anyway peter1138 said it's not the proper solution)
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17:21:03 <FauxFaux> glx: Yes. (/me reinstates the "no coding on sunday" rule).
17:22:01 <FR^2> FauxFaux: At work, we don't deploy on fridays ;)
17:22:42 <FauxFaux> We don't do features on friday. :)
17:26:15 <planetmaker> ecke: but if IS is what you want, you just need one person who compiles a binary with the IS patch.
17:29:13 <peter1138> blathijs, /bin/sh is not bash.
17:29:21 <peter1138> echo -e is a bashism.
17:29:29 <yorick> trademark: my suspections are usually wrong
17:29:32 <Rubidium> peter1138: using dash, aren't you?
17:29:44 <peter1138> I'm using not-bash.
17:30:22 <peter1138> Actually, my shell is bash, but my /bin/sh is not.
17:31:19 <SmatZ> replaces \t by real tab
17:31:58 <peter1138> And does that not work anywhere?
17:32:07 <Rubidium> yorick: yes, if you want it to not work on Windows you should use /bin/bash :)
17:32:25 <SmatZ> peter1138: seems to work on my system, and with dash
17:33:43 <TrueBrain> SmatZ: while at it, replace the ifs without [] too ;)
17:34:05 <peter1138> (Why did we need a new shell script, anyway?)
17:34:26 <TrueBrain> peter1138: revision checks were done in 2 places now (copy/paste is BAD!)
17:34:32 <TrueBrain> and debian needed one, which ment the 3rd place
17:34:34 <glx> to not duplicate the detection
17:34:37 <yorick> because hg and git revision bundles were broken
17:34:39 <TrueBrain> this .. reduces problems in the future ;)
17:34:48 <SmatZ> and with sunos's sh, surprisingly :)
17:40:26 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: smatz * r14264 /trunk/findversion.sh: -Fix (r14261): 'echo -e' is not recognized on many systems
17:45:54 <Kasceh> Is there a maglev train set for ESC?
17:46:46 <Eddi|zuHause> you mean except the one that refits the old wagons?
17:47:01 <Eddi|zuHause> "old wagons, new cargo" i think it is called.
17:47:30 <Eddi|zuHause> most newgrf sets have only "express" goods via maglev (mail, goods, valuables)
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17:53:39 * peter1138 ponders the waypoint desync.
17:54:08 <NukeBuster> at what time does the nightly compile?
17:54:27 <peter1138> In about 6 minutes.
17:54:33 <Rubidium> 2000 CE[S]T (S depending on summer/winter time in Amsterdam)
17:55:19 <peter1138> I can't reproduce it just playing with waypoints :(
17:57:03 <glx> Rubidium: isn't it Budapest indeed ?
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17:57:58 <glx> the new server is not in UTC?
17:58:11 <Eddi|zuHause> [Sa 6. Sep 2008] [16:42:15] <Celestar> Eddi|zuHause: are you around? <- no, i'm away over the weekend :p
17:58:23 <Rubidium> the server uses UTC, but that doesn't mean compiles need to follow that
17:58:34 <SmatZ> peter1138: many brave devs have failed trying to reproduce that...
17:58:47 <peter1138> SmatZ, I've had it myself in a game :(
17:59:22 <Kasceh> Ugh blind, wheres the option to turn off breakdowns again, i cant find it in vechicles :x
17:59:41 <Eddi|zuHause> it's a difficulty setting
17:59:44 <Rubidium> TZ="CET-1CEST,M3.5.0,M10.5.0/3" date -d "$year-$month-$day 20:00" +"%Y-%m-%d %H:%M %z" <- for the exact time at a given date with offset from UTC
18:10:10 <SmatZ> peter1138: DeleteWaypoint()
18:10:20 <SmatZ> it doesn't use ovelroaded delete operator
18:10:34 <SmatZ> so Tpool->UpdateFirstFreeIndex(pn->index); is not called
18:15:26 <peter1138> So it's still there in trunk.
18:16:02 <SmatZ> yeah, just reproduced :)
18:16:53 <peter1138> I was looking in the .cpps :(
18:17:22 <Brianetta> I thought my radar was faulty
18:17:37 <Rubidium> SmatZ: go commit it then!
18:17:39 <peter1138> Yes, your server desynced and kicked me off and then autocleaned me :(
18:17:56 <Brianetta> peter1138: Ooof. Passwords.
18:18:00 * Rubidium figures it was me :)
18:18:22 <Brianetta> peter1138: Waypoints aside, have there been any other desyncs?
18:18:35 <SmatZ> ok no problem Rubidium :-)
18:18:42 <peter1138> No, but... I admit I stopped playing when my company'd gone.
18:19:25 <Rubidium> has been a bad day for desyncs :)
18:19:39 <Brianetta> Sorry about that. Rule #1 fora while has been to password your company.
18:19:50 <Brianetta> We had a problem with a nocturnal vandal
18:20:03 <Brianetta> who would join some rich company and spoil the map
18:20:40 <peter1138> Of course, I removed the passwords when I uploaded my config earlier...
18:20:58 <Brianetta> these things conspire
18:21:36 <NukeBuster> I still have a nice 3 line patch lying around for that ;)
18:22:10 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: smatz * r14265 /trunk/src/ (waypoint.cpp waypoint.h): -Fix (r10750): desyncs after deleting a waypoint because of explicit destructor call instead of using operator delete
18:22:14 <Sacro> if(Player.Password.Length == 0) Player.Kick();
18:23:10 <Prof_Frink> if(Player.Name == "Sacro") Player.SetFireTo();
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18:27:04 <peter1138> Once that's backported we ought to run a test.
18:27:42 <peter1138> Like, say, on Brianetta's server ;)
18:28:23 <Noldo> couldn't the dedicated server run openttd servers for dev purposes?
18:28:40 <Brianetta> Noldo: Of course it could. You're totally missing the point, I think.
18:29:19 <Sacro> can anyone recommend some way of viewing the working memory of an application?
18:29:21 * Brianetta is still deeply suspicious of trams
18:29:34 <Brianetta> Sacro: Attach a debugger to it, and ask it to show you
18:30:00 <Sacro> Brianetta: I don't have debugging symbols :()
18:30:01 <Brianetta> This is how I used to jot down player passwords before somebody decided to hash tjem all (:
18:30:10 <Brianetta> You don't need symbols
18:30:17 <Brianetta> You just want to view memory
18:30:24 <Sacro> recommend me an application :)
18:30:32 <Brianetta> gdb is the one I have
18:31:07 <Brianetta> I don't know anything else
18:32:11 <peter1138> Brianetta, there's already been a possible road vehicle desync fix.
18:32:17 <Brianetta> GNU distribute software as sauce
18:32:32 <Brianetta> peter1138: Cool. What about stuck trams?
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18:40:27 <peter1138> SmatZ, are you backporting it?
18:43:47 <SmatZ> peter1138: it will be backported, but I think more patches are usually backported at once
18:44:27 <Rubidium> it isn't required to do multiple of them a commit
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18:56:46 <sulai> I just finished my newest patch =)
18:56:54 <sulai> safer level crossings ;)
18:58:29 <sulai> trains stop for road vehicles :)
19:01:03 <yorick> cant sublicense openttd binaries :(
19:02:09 <yorick> I want to stop others from using a patch made my me, claiming it's theirs
19:02:36 <dih> yorick, funny - i know that somehow
19:02:48 <dih> you could take them to court of course
19:03:02 <dih> making it the first time gpl get's its chance to be tried
19:03:23 <yorick> dih: . . . it only shares 2 lines and the idea :-p
19:03:43 <TrueBrain> more chance you win in court on the 'idea' part than on the '2 lines'
19:04:22 <dih> anyway - you know, patching is about supporting a project, not bringing ones name into the center of discussion
19:04:46 <dih> you bring your name into discussion quite well without patching :-D
19:04:58 <yorick> not it you know it won't make it into the project
19:05:25 <TrueBrain> so when it is added to the project, we should forget who did it
19:05:29 <TrueBrain> and when it isn't added, we should remember?
19:05:57 <Rubidium> TrueBrain: shall we unmerge all features and bugfixes written by us?
19:06:07 <hylje> NewEverything (thanks anonymous)
19:06:09 <TrueBrain> yeah .. I want my name attached to all of them!
19:06:27 <TrueBrain> oh, lets add it in comments at every function we added/modified! :)
19:06:42 <yorick> TB: commit logs should be enough :)
19:06:50 <sulai> ever heard of "annotation"
19:06:58 <TrueBrain> Rubidium forgets more than often to credit me when I pointed him to a bug/problem
19:07:03 <TrueBrain> so I insist that he reverts all of them!
19:07:06 <dih> which is only useable until the repository changes
19:07:07 <TrueBrain> he is stealing my ideas :(
19:07:17 <dih> and needs setting up from 'scratch'
19:07:59 <dih> (which has happened before)
19:08:13 <TrueBrain> dih: chances of that ever happening again are close to 0
19:08:34 <yorick> the same idiot who stole the passwords also stole the maps and patches
19:08:34 <TrueBrain> not only is the official SVN mirrored over several places, many people hav ea svk checkout, and also many have hg and git checkouts
19:08:50 <TrueBrain> either one enough to recover a SVN completely
19:08:58 <yorick> now I cannot license the patches :-p
19:09:07 <TrueBrain> dih: if the world burns down, it will be lost
19:09:09 <TrueBrain> so it can never be 0
19:09:27 <yorick> I cannot license the passwords
19:09:33 <TrueBrain> maybe I should upload a backup to the IIS or something
19:09:36 <yorick> the maps are not licensed
19:09:52 <yorick> except for the "keep this sign: made by *"
19:10:27 <dih> yorick: next time pay more attention to your stuff :-P
19:10:47 <yorick> they don't seem to care about the maps
19:10:52 <yorick> and the passwords were changed
19:11:17 <yorick> but I can not license the patches so they shouldn't download and use the patches claiming they're theirs
19:12:28 <TrueBrain> people shouldn't be selling OpenTTD .. still people do
19:12:55 <TrueBrain> selling things as if it were yours? Not nice in general
19:13:05 <TrueBrain> asking money for other peoples effort? Not nice too ..
19:13:27 <Noldo> isn't that what all companies do?
19:13:27 <TrueBrain> I remember a big fight with those guys who made a WinMobile port of OpenTTD and claimed they created the game or something
19:14:04 <yorick> now they have the port, but point their donations link to their bank account :-p
19:14:52 <TrueBrain> well, at least they link to openttd.org now, publish their patch, and tell that their patch is based on OpenTTD
19:15:05 <el_En> TrueBrain: should have picked a better license than GPL if selling is not nice.
19:15:10 <yorick> they made a winmobile port of openttd and claimed they created the game or something, right?
19:15:24 <glx> <TrueBrain> maybe I should upload a backup to the IIS or something <-- not a good idea, they have a virus on board
19:15:28 <TrueBrain> el_En: selling perse isn't what bothers me .. taking others people stuff and act like it is yours .. I was hoping we were living in a better word
19:16:07 <el_En> TrueBrain: errr, taking other people's stuff like ludde did with Chris Sawyer's TTD?
19:16:26 <TrueBrain> el_En: slightly different; we never hide the fact the game is based on what CS Did
19:16:38 <TrueBrain> and we will never try to make any money out of OpenTTD
19:16:59 <TrueBrain> at all places you can find: Original game by CS
19:17:01 <glx> and it's ISS (IIS is windows web server)
19:17:13 <TrueBrain> not like we removed him completely and act like this is all our idea
19:18:17 <TrueBrain> I made various pieces of software in the last few years, most licensed to LGPL .. you have no idea how many big companies just take your software and use it, without notifying you, without paying you ..
19:18:18 <el_En> TrueBrain: except implicitly by relicensing it from commercial closed-source into GPL. but yes, i get your point.
19:18:29 <TrueBrain> if you use work of others, at least credit them, and if you make money from it, at least pay them
19:18:39 <TrueBrain> but okay .. a fair world died long long ago I guess ;)
19:19:21 <TrueBrain> el_En: for OpenTTD in fact it is a bit worse (positive for CS): we 'force' everyone to buy the real game
19:19:33 <TrueBrain> so if anything, OpenTTD should make CS gain more money ;)
19:19:50 <glx> if only it was easily findable in stores ;)
19:20:14 <frosch123> err, would the money still find its way to CS?
19:20:41 <TrueBrain> frosch123: not our problem, is it? :)
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19:21:25 <Rexxars> he deserves everything he can get for making such an awesome game
19:22:07 <glx> simple concept are often good
19:22:28 <yorick> CS is a company, not a person...
19:22:50 <TrueBrain> very much a person indeed
19:23:28 <yorick> "Chris Sawyer software development"
19:23:48 <SmatZ> "Chris Sawyer is an independent game developer based in Scotland, specializing in constructional / strategic / simulation style games."
19:24:02 <el_En> I don't believe the yorick company.
19:24:17 <Rexxars> he's still just one person.. + back when he made TTD, he was a single developer with microprose as a publisher
19:24:46 <Rexxars> I did an email interview with him about assembly back in the day, haha
19:25:20 <Rexxars> still think it's impressive to create something like TT entirely in assembly ;)
19:25:45 <TrueBrain> as impressive in any other language back then I guess
19:26:07 <SmatZ> I still find asm much better in some cases
19:27:22 <SmatZ> return more-than-one-level from recursion!
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19:28:01 <sulai> <SmatZ> return more-than-one-level from recursion! <--- make code more confusing ;)
19:28:23 <SmatZ> sulai: I don't expect anyone to read my asm code ;)
19:28:39 <SmatZ> glx: and leave stack full of mess :-P
19:28:43 <TrueBrain> sulai: it is asm .. how can it be less confusing?
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20:00:39 <Eddi|zuHause> put the ASM in XML, that'll make it widely portable and human readable!
20:17:46 *** ChanServ sets mode: +v tokai
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20:34:40 <Elukka> hmh, my world generation on a 2048x2048 map, with ECS, gets stuck on 56% creating the industries
20:34:57 <Elukka> no wait it continued now, very slowly though
20:36:05 <SmatZ> generationg a 2048x2048 map with ECS industries is best to leave over night
20:36:40 <Elukka> yesterday it took around 10 minutes
20:37:35 <Elukka> now its taking ages, though
20:37:47 <Elukka> which is strange since i havent changed anything
20:40:01 <Elukka> its also missing capitalization ;)
20:40:54 <el_En> capitalization and punctuation are completely different, unrelated things.
20:43:15 <el_En> a full stop missing from the end of a separate sentence, or lower-case letters only rarely change the semantic meaning of words or the sentence.
20:43:56 <Elukka> like most, i just cant be bothered, on irc anyway
20:43:58 <Zuu> Though there is a course webportal called it's learing. But on the ITS course I am taking we like to call it ITS learing. :)
20:44:03 <Prof_Frink> el_En: "I helped my unlce jack off a horse" and "I helped my unlce Jack off a horse" have very different meanings.
20:44:30 <Prof_Frink> And I fail at spelling uncle.
20:44:34 <Elukka> unlce also has no meaning
20:44:49 <el_En> Prof_Frink: yes, you need to use a capital J when pronouncing that.
20:45:53 <Elukka> in that particular sentence, its pretty important
20:46:02 <Elukka> in that one i just wrote, it isnt
20:47:25 <Noldo> Elukka: is this another case of "I know how to do it but this is the Internets so I don't care" ?
20:47:56 <Elukka> generally people dont bother with fully correct grammar on irc
20:47:58 <Elukka> im one of those people
20:48:07 <SmatZ> naw dis kewl 2 tyep liek taht
20:48:23 <Elukka> i dont do that, though
20:48:36 <Elukka> actually, its very much a pet peeve
20:48:55 <Elukka> also, people not bothering writing properly on forums is also a pet peeve
20:49:01 <Elukka> oh and people writing "of" instead of "have"
20:49:34 <Elukka> on another note, the map generating gets slow at precisely 56%
20:49:43 <Elukka> up to that point it generates the industries at a nice pace
20:50:33 <Eddi|zuHause> complain to george about that
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20:51:03 <Eddi|zuHause> openttd does everything correctly, but ECS has insane placement requirements
20:51:13 <Eddi|zuHause> which are expensive to check
20:51:40 <Elukka> the problem is something on my end
20:51:44 <Elukka> it worked fine yesterday or so
20:51:59 <Eddi|zuHause> and if industry placement checks are O(n^2), it will take 100 times longer to place 1000 industries than 100
20:52:36 <Eddi|zuHause> it's a known problem of ECS
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20:58:13 <Elukka> nope, still slows down on 56%..
20:58:50 *** Celestar has joined #openttd
20:59:58 <Celestar> Brianetta: thanks for .. having a go at Wan-To :)
21:01:06 <Eddi|zuHause> Celestar: what did you want yesterday?
21:01:43 <Celestar> did you test the "hop overdrive" patch?
21:04:31 <Eddi|zuHause> well, not this weekend, as i was away
21:04:52 <Eddi|zuHause> when i played last time, i found no noticeable problems
21:05:25 <Celestar> does it do what we expect it to?
21:05:37 <Celestar> I hadn't much time to test it myself for nasty side-effects
21:05:55 <Elukka> hmh, now i got a 1024x1024 map generated, i estimate it took less than 2 minutes
21:07:16 <Eddi|zuHause> well, there was some kind of weird behaviour that people would take the tram to the main station, and at the main station they decided to take the tram back instead of the train around the city
21:07:46 <Brianetta> Celestar: I tried to disguise it
21:09:03 <Eddi|zuHause> maybe that would be solved with better biasing of train routes vs. tram routes
21:09:09 <Celestar> disguise the "telling him off" ?
21:09:18 <Celestar> Eddi|zuHause: I see.
21:09:23 <Celestar> Eddi|zuHause: I'll work on that stuff next week
21:09:37 <Eddi|zuHause> so the people won't want to take the train in the first place
21:11:22 <Celestar> no I might just want to forbid looping I guess
21:13:44 <Rubidium> Celestar: isn't that going to cause trouble when removing links?
21:14:41 <Celestar> Rubidium: nothing to do with what is on hg now
21:14:50 <Celestar> Rubidium: just wondering how to use express systems
21:17:31 <Celestar> TrueBrain: *gentle poke*
21:24:05 <Celestar> :o the wiki has around 500 unused images in its database
21:25:00 <Celestar> up to now, I've see only one
21:26:09 <Celestar> sorry, it's more than 500
21:26:40 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: rubidium * r14266 /branches/0.6/ (15 files in 5 dirs): (log message trimmed)
21:26:40 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: [0.6] -Backport from trunk:
21:26:40 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: - Fix: Desyncs after deleting a waypoint because of explicit destructor call instead of using operator delete (r14265)
21:26:40 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: - Fix: Crash when the AI tries to find the depot of an airport that doesn't have a depot [FS#2190] (r13999)
21:26:40 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: - Fix: MSVC cannot handle changed files in the prebuild event, so make the version determination a separate subproject [FS#2004] (r13998)
21:26:41 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: - Fix: The dedicated console removed any character that was not a printable ASCII character instead. Now it allows UTF8 formated strings too [FS#2189] (r13992)
21:26:43 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: - Fix: Resetting construction stage counter reset more than it should (r13981)
21:27:07 <Celestar> explicit destructor call? .o
21:28:21 <el_En> explicit destructor call??!? 0·0
21:29:13 <glx> wp->~Waypoint(); <-- nice isn't it
21:29:27 <Celestar> glx: when veteran C programms learn C++ :P
21:29:40 *** rortom_ has joined #openttd
21:30:14 <Celestar> glx: especially lovely is the 'wrapper' function around the destructor
21:30:57 <el_En> the line was there by Rubidium.
21:31:49 <Celestar> as I said, that happens when you move from C to C++
21:31:55 * Sacro grabs a flaming torche and heads to dutchland
21:32:13 * Prof_Frink grabs the pitchforks
21:32:21 <Eddi|zuHause> you forgot your pitchfork
21:32:36 <el_En> Celestar: with the additional condition that you don't even attempt to read a book about C++ while doing so...
21:32:38 <Celestar> I fail to get the joke?
21:32:57 <Celestar> el_En: not sure. just some search-and-replace error or something
21:33:23 <el_En> does someone dare to grep the project for other instances of '->~'?
21:33:27 <Celestar> gcc's loop vectorizer is SLOW
21:33:43 <el_En> Celestar: are you still using GCC 3.x?
21:34:20 <Celestar> src/misc/fixedsizearray.hpp: pItem->~Titem_();
21:34:27 <Celestar> src/misc/blob.hpp: pLast->~Titem_();
21:35:48 * Celestar redirects Sacro to CZ
21:35:55 <el_En> in what the fuck kind of a state is an object after its destructor has been explicitly called? memory is not freed, i suppose.
21:36:42 <Celestar> el_En: I guess if it's the default constructor, notthing is done?
21:36:50 *** stillunknown has joined #openttd
21:37:47 <Celestar> el_En: > grep -R "\->\~" /usr/include/c++/4.3/ | wc -l
21:39:12 <Celestar> el_En: I guess that depends on the destructor. Calling it explicitly, it's just treated like any other function, is it not?
21:39:13 <el_En> Celestar: there's reason to believe that libstdc++ coders have had a better idea of what they are doing than average OTTD coders.
21:40:14 <el_En> Celestar: actually i'm not sure what does the standard say about calling the destructor explicitly. would be logical that it is treated like any function.
21:40:47 <Rubidium> el_En: now imagine that the destructor only marks a pool item invalid and delete will does not free it, is calling it explicitly that bad?
21:41:00 <Celestar> el_En: KUDr isn't an average OTTD code. he's a 100% C++ guy (and afaik never used C)
21:41:39 <Celestar> el_En: manually written allocators often seem to call the destructor
21:41:57 <Eddi|zuHause> and KUDr definitely appeared as someone who really knows what he was doing...
21:41:59 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: rubidium * r14267 /branches/0.6/src/ (12 files in 4 dirs): (log message trimmed)
21:42:00 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: [0.6] -Backport from trunk:
21:42:00 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: - Fix: Make the 'Transfer Credit' display aware of the entire consist, not only the first vehicle (r14098)
21:42:00 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: - Fix: Do not flood a NewGRF industry when it implicitly tells that it wants to be build on water (land shape flags bit 5) [FS#2230] (r14093)
21:42:01 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: - Fix: The vehicle window of articulated road vehicles would show the clone/refit button when the vehicle was not completely stopped in the depot (r14090)
21:42:01 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: - Fix: Flawed parsing of words (as in 2 bytes) in GRF strings due to sign extension [FS#2228] (r14087)
21:42:03 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: - Fix: Division by 0 in NewAI [FS#2226] (r14062)
21:43:21 <Celestar> Eddi|zuHause: juding from the YAPF code, yes
21:43:57 <el_En> i wonder why it caused desyncs if it is problem-free way to do things.
21:44:21 <Celestar> el_En: it's not problem free. "delete thing" and "thing->~ThingType()" do different things
21:44:44 <Rubidium> because later in time the delete override got functionality, which made some assumptions break
21:45:04 <Rubidium> at the time of writing that line of code it was perfectly fine and it didn't cause desyncs
21:45:28 <Celestar> Rubidium: still I wonder why a waypoint was just destructed, but never removed?
21:46:04 * Celestar begins to understand the explicit destructor call
21:46:27 * Prof_Frink prefers the explicit terminator call
21:46:56 <Rubidium> Celestar: I've got no clue about that
21:47:05 <Rubidium> Prof_Frink: the chronicles thereof?
21:47:40 * Celestar points randomly at some people. "You there. You'll help me cleaning up the cargodest wiki"
21:47:42 <Rubidium> Celestar: my mind is like an OpenTTD game... after a few days the state of a few days ago is unrecoverable
21:47:50 <Eddi|zuHause> shouldn't new episodes be out soon?
21:48:38 <el_En> only a stupid low-resolution, letterboxed version on rslinks.
21:49:00 <Celestar> Rubidium: the information there is good. It's just ... unorganized
21:49:15 <Celestar> el_En: Dexter being what?
21:49:32 <Eddi|zuHause> one of the most genious TV series currently
21:50:01 * Rubidium agrees with Eddi|zuHause
21:50:14 <Rubidium> Celestar: once they've dubbed it it will be
21:50:18 <Eddi|zuHause> Celestar: the dubbing totally sucks i'm afraid
21:50:35 <Celestar> dubbing always sucks
21:50:35 <Eddi|zuHause> Celestar: RTL II has the rights to show it, i think
21:50:43 *** welshdragon is now known as welshdra-gone
21:50:51 <Celestar> I've never seen any dubbed show on TV that didn't have a sucky dubbing
21:50:59 <Eddi|zuHause> Celestar: no, but this time, the series lives from the original tone...
21:52:05 *** Progman has joined #openttd
21:53:20 <el_En> Celestar: Dexter is serial killer working as a crime scene investigator in Miami Police Department.
21:54:25 <el_En> And that's not a spoiler.
21:56:40 <Eddi|zuHause> "Dexter RTL II Montag, 29.September 2008 22.50 Uhr"
21:56:57 <Eddi|zuHause> and really, be warned to not watch the german dub...
21:57:28 <Celestar> Eddi|zuHause: I'm not watching shows in German (=
22:02:11 <Eddi|zuHause> "in „Dexter“ und einer ganzen Reihe von durch schlechten Umgang „getöteten“ Serien geht es um mehr Ethik und Moral als im ganzen deutschen Fernsehen zusammen."
22:04:51 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: rubidium * r14268 /branches/0.6/src/ (12 files in 3 dirs): (log message trimmed)
22:04:51 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: [0.6] -Backport from trunk:
22:04:51 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: - Fix: Properly update the current timetable's travel/wait times instead of only doing it for one vehicle in the shared order chain and only when some bit has not been set [FS#2236] (r14192)
22:04:51 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: - Fix: Sprite payload skipping would not skip enough bytes in a very small subset of compressed sprites (r14191)
22:04:51 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: - Fix: After applying NewGRF settings, all rail and road types were available as the engine availability check was performed too early (r14182)
22:04:51 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: - Fix: Close all related vehicle lists when closing a station window (and not only the train list) (r14180)
22:04:53 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: - Fix: RemoveOrderFromAllVehicles() did not mark enough windows dirty (r14179)
22:05:21 * Celestar smells a release coming (=
22:05:34 <Prof_Frink> No, that's just Sacro
22:06:28 <Celestar> 4.39 10.11 2.82 85666889 0.00 0.00 GetTileSlope(unsigned int, unsigned int*)
22:07:07 <Celestar> and with that, I'm off to bed.
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22:10:37 <TrueBrain> why oh why does Celestar poke me and stuff, without telling me why
22:11:25 <el_En> maybe he wanted you to spill your cup of coffee on your keyboard
22:11:32 <TrueBrain> I guess so .. he should say so
22:11:40 <TrueBrain> like: TrueBrain: when you have the time, can you compile cargodest again?
22:11:44 <TrueBrain> instead of: /me pokes TrueBrain
22:13:56 <ben_goodger> it keeps volunteer developers on their toes
22:15:00 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: rubidium * r14269 /branches/0.6/src/ (11 files in 3 dirs): (log message trimmed)
22:15:00 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: [0.6] -Backport from trunk:
22:15:00 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: - Fix: Merge keycode for "normal" 0-9 keys and keypad 0-9 keys so people do not get confused that the keypad does not work as expected [FS#2277] (r14260)
22:15:00 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: - Fix: Clicking on the smallmap didn't break the "follow vehicle in main viewport" [FS#2269] (r14243)
22:15:01 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: - Fix: The engine-purchase-list-sorter doubled running-cost and halfed capacity of double-headed engines [FS#2267] (r14239)
22:15:01 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: - Fix: Feeder share was computed wrong when splitting cargo packet (r14234)
22:15:03 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: - Fix: Signs (town name, station name, ...) could be too long for 8bit width in pixels (r14221)
22:16:09 <Yexo> TrueBrain: Celestar indeed wanted a new cargodest build
22:16:20 <TrueBrain> then he should just say so :)
22:16:43 <Rubidium> Yexo: he merely wanted to poke TrueBrain for the fun of it
22:21:13 *** ChanServ sets mode: +v tokai
22:23:37 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: smatz * r14270 /trunk/src/disaster_cmd.cpp: -Fix: make small UFO aware of articulated RVs
22:31:26 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: rubidium * r14271 /branches/0.6/ (31 files in 5 dirs):
22:31:26 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: [0.6] -Backport from trunk:
22:31:27 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: - Change: Makefile updates for compile farm
22:31:27 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: - Change: Updated debian package generation metadata
22:40:31 *** ChanServ sets mode: +v tokai
22:45:45 <TrueBrain> well, tell Celestar the compile is done
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23:10:35 *** Yeggstry is now known as Yeggzzz
23:10:42 *** reldred|gone is now known as reldred
23:16:05 *** reldred is now known as reldred|work
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23:34:13 <Sacro> Brianetta: <3 the police 37
23:34:45 <Brianetta> Using the two-tone horn (:
23:34:54 <Brianetta> They painted one that way for real
23:35:28 <eekee> I used to hear that all the time from my parents' place, especially when the clouds were low
continue to next day ⏵
